Watch How Misinformed Aussie Politicians Are About Video Games
The above snippet is taken from a relatively new ABC show called Q&A, which gives everyday people the chance to pose questions to politicians, journalists and the like. The latest episode saw the panel field a question about the lack of an R18+ rating for video games. The result… well, all I can say is wow. At this rate, we don’t stand a chance.
Thanks to Daniel Silk, who pointed me in the direction of the clip. Daniel also went to the trouble of putting together a letter to complain about the panel, which I’ve included after the jump.
If you’d like to read more information about games classification, I urge you to check these out:
Michael Atkinson, No R18+ For Games In Australia: Why It Hurts Children
R18 Classification & Video Games: What You Can Do
Why Michael Atkinson’s Opposal Of An R18+ Rating For Games Does Bugger All To Protect Kids, Promotes Crime
Q&A episode 10 [ABC TV]
To whom it may concern,I watched you show for the first time last night (24/7/08) as I was informed that the question of “Why Australia doesn’t have an R rating for video games”. I must say that I am thoroughly disappointed at how misinformed most of you panel was on the subject and how quickly the original question was side tracked from.
To start off, the host had a completely wrong idea about the game “Fallout 3″ which was used to start the question. This game was only refuse classification (not banned mind you) because of the use of the drug morphine as a pain killer.
Why this ONE game was pick up for its use is beyond me, as there have been countless others that have been classified fine with use of the drug in the game (Half life 1 and 2, Fallout 1 and 2 just to name a couple of popular games).Also the description your host used to describe Fallout 3 was a bit incorrect, yes there is violence in the game – but the “main purpose” is not to kill everything. The game takes place in a post apocalyptic world – as was stated – but the player is then given the choice of how to interact in this now war torn, almost primitive new world. The player CAN just kill everyone, but that will have ramification on how the rest of the game will play out. Or he could be diplomatic and talk to everyone – be friendly and help them out, and be rewarded for his actions.
This seems to be the idea that most of the older generations (I’m 25 myself and have been gaming since the age of 8) have stuck in their heads – that all these games are just full of violence for violence sake. Most ‘adult’ games have violent themes for the same reason that ‘mature/restricted’ movies have violent themes – to move the story and add suspense/tension.
Now to move on, as the first lady to answer the question decided to take it from a personal position of “I don’t want my kids to play it – so nobody can!”. This does nothing but hurt the Australian economy, but also stabs every parent by saying “You don’t know how to look after you kids, so we’ll let the government do it for you”. I agree totally that minors should not be allowed to play violent games, and that we should have a solid, PUBLISIZED rating system in place (which I’ll get to shortly) to stop minors from purchasing these games. But by refusing classification on games of a mature nature will not stop the minors from getting hold of them anymore than if there was an R rating. But if there was such a rating, at least the Australian economy can be injected with otherwise missing cash, and parents will be more informed about the games that their children are playing.
But like I said, they can still get hold of these games by other means, downloading from the internet (which is not only illegal, but hurts the economy) or importing them from other countries. Well to start, parents can monitor (and should try to monitor) their child’s internet usage as much as possible – and in this day in age is surprisingly easy with numerous programs that allow parent to control what sites can and can’t be accessed. And as far as importing the games goes (which apparently customs would seize all copies of ‘banned’ games) most of the new consoles have parent controls – which stops ANYONE from playing any game deemed so by the user (parent in this case) to a certain rating level.
Now about the rating system, which most of you panel were convinced doesn’t exist in this country. We currently have in place a rating system to a maximum of M15+ which most of these controversial games must get released into in this country if they wish to be sold. This causes confusion in parents as they think “Well little Bobby watches M rated movies he should be fine with this” without realising how broad of a rating that is. If we were to have an R rating it would decrease some confusion, and to properly inform the public about the rating system (like we currently do with television rating) would decrease it even more. I have been in game stores behind a parent who, after being informed about a game by the clerk, says “It’s only rated M so it can’t be that bad”.
How is it that Australia is the only country in the western world not to have an R rating? New Zealand has one and it isn’t over run by people stealing cars and running over pedestrians, and the UK seems to be dealing with one fine. Heck, even in Japan – where they have some really controversial games – they have a Z rating which is illegal to be displayed and must be asked from specifically before showing ID to be purchased. There are many ways to combat any of the misconceptions that are brought up when talking about an R rating, and all of them are valid and proven to work.
This still doesn’t lessen the disappointment I feel after watching your show, funnily called “Questions and Answers” to see the person who asked the question spend about 10 minutes with a raise hand to try (I can only guess) and correct your panel on the gross half truths they were saying. Also I must ask, why was the topic switch from talking about bringing in a new rating to compliment they current rating system, to how this would suddenly allow snuff films and excessive pokies to be brought into this country? I have never heard such useless propaganda spread in all my life! Snuff films and video games would still be illegal, even with an R rating, as they will always be deemed inappropriate and unnecessary; just like we can’t have them now. How the topic swung to this I don’t know, but to try and push this as fact is disappointing to hear from people in government. And the guy in the audience with his question about how this would allow more pokies to open? I think he must have confused gaming and Gaming. I can understand how that could happen, as they are both used to describe a similar experience, but they are not related in any way. One is to do with gambling, which as your panel successfully said is bad and does affect others, the other describes a pastime that many people are actively participative in. Neither affects the other.
Another point I would like to bring to light is the passing of information about studies linking violent video games and violent acts. These studies are inconclusive at best and there are also studies that state the opposite, that the playing of violent games actually DECREASES violent outbursts in some people. Trying to state these studies as actual facts when the verdict is still out is just plain wrong and I’m shocked that no-one on the panel tried to debate this. Yes, there are some people who are drawn to violent media – be it games, books or movies; but you don’t see us banning the latter two do you? To say that video games glorify violence is to say that Saving Private Ryan glorified the violence of World War II, or that America Beauty glorifies having sex with minors. If you are going to ban one, ban them all; don’t just ban things based on how you are feeling at the time.So in conclusion, I am disappointed that your show seemed more like a platform to spout inconclusive propaganda and misinformation; and when your original question asker had a point he was obviously wanted to raise, was turned down and not allowed to speak out. Australia needs an R rating for its video games to bring it in line with the rest of the world, and to allow a more uniformed rating on games that should never be allowed in minor’s hands. The rating systems in Australia need to be publicized more as the public at large seems to be grossly misinformed and needs to be set straight. And seeing that there is only ONE MAN that is holding this country back in the ’stone age of ratings’ shows that they way that these things are brought into this country need to be looked at as soon as possible.
While I’m not really fussed that I probably won’t get a reply to this letter, I do hope that you will bring these facts to light on your next show – as I feel bad for anyone who was watching to get the wrong idea about this new media type that has now shadowed the Movie and Television industries.
Sincerely,
A concerned citizen.
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Comments
Anyone else notice his FO3 shirt with the speech skill on it? Awesome.
Anyway, I was loling the entire time. Jesus Christ.
Ah well, I’m still importing FO3.
*sigh* A government for the people by the people.
Or in this case, for the people by the people who live under a rock and don’t understand the topic they pretend to have strong opinions of.
Wow, that’s a chunk of my life I’ll never get back.
Why are we plagued with such moronic, uninformed politicians in this country?
“there isn’t a rating system on video games….that means anyone of any age can buy them”…Sorry, what? Just like with movies, any MA15+ game is restricted to those over the age of 15 or accompanied by an adult. If the retailers don’t follow that, that’s the retailers fault – it’s not the same as saying we don’t have restrictions.
Perhaps if you’re going to have a segment on it, the host should at *least* get it right.
Australian gamers can’t rely on the GDAA or the IEAA to represent their interests, these bodies are there to promote industry developers and publishers NOT players.
Gamers need their own group. Guy Blomberg of Australian Gamer has been trying to get things off the ground on this front.
It’s pretty obvious by now that gamers need a lobby group that fiercely promotes their interests.
what’s that comment? people get the politicians that they deserve. clearly gamers are the smart minority then as we don’t deserve these fucking tools “looking” after our best interests.
I was talking with some friends about this issue last Friday and he mentioned a political campaigning website called Get Up! (http://getup.org.au/), basically you start a proposal and if enough people support it and raise money to support it they will organize advertisements to support the cause. It may be Oz gamers only hope considering how horrible Q&A went. I was really expecting more from at least the host, he could research Fallout 3 (slightly) yet was unaware of any ratings system for games in Australia, that was shameful.
Watched this last night and also felt sinking dismay after listening to 3 of them having absolutely no idea what they were talking about.
I particularly laughed at the comment “if its been banned it must be pretty bad”. Thank christ the Labor rep wasn’t quite as stupid as the others. The only person who really seemed to make an intelligent contribution was the younger female journalist.
The gaming industry is just too big nowadays for our politicians to be this amazingly ignorant. They really need to remove their head from their arse and stop listening to the scare-stories making out as if a perfectly normal person can be turned into a psychopath by playing a game. Yes it may trigger a pre-existing mental condition but who with 2 brain cells to rub together is stupid enough to think video games alone can cause people to commit such atrocities.
Our media and politicians are so out of touch and misrepresent our country and way of life watching TV just makes me sick. This is just one issue of many the people in power are completely ignorant of. Australia just jumps on the political correctness bandwagon that America pioneered
I like how the guy was wearing a fallout shirt. Apparently online we can rape each other. joy.
I didn’t even read the whole thing, and that letter was nearly half as poor as the show itself. Nearly.
Anyhow, this is a complete disgrace that they would spread completely wrong information like this on Television, and I am writing to Mediawatch right now.
…Apparently Mediwatch is on ABC. We’re screwed. I think SBS has something similar, I’ll take a look.
In case anyone doesn’t know, we DO have a rating system for videogames, it just bans all games that would be rated R18+. Yes, bans. It is a myth that you can still import the games legally. You just probably won’t get caught.
Alright, I have written an email to MediaWatch.
“Last night the ABC program Q&A ran a discussion on whether Australia should have an R18+ rating for videogames (currently any game that comes under the category of R18+ is banned for sale, import, etc.). The host clearly stated that we do not have a rating system for videogames, although we do for videos. This was discussed for a significant amount of time, and he was never corrected. This is completely inaccurate:
“Computer games, whether they are locally made or come from overseas, have to be classified before they can be sold, hired or demonstrated in Australia.” – http://www.classification.gov.au/special.html?n=253&p=78#cg
This means that many games cannot legally be sold to anyone under 15, just like movies.
Here is a YouTube video of the relevant section, the part I mention begins somewhere around halfway through. (The ABC also makes the entire episode available on their website for free.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4KR3nmDpz0
(Members of the panel also inaccurately described several games, imply that psychological studies generally show a significant causal link between games and violence, and state that a game ‘turned everyone into car thieves’. These are all incorrect, however, the statement that the OFLC, a Government office, excludes videogames entirely, is clearly the most direct and most significant error.)
They debated this for some time, and I think people need to be shown that we HAVE a working, enforced rating system for games, just not an R18+ rating. As a future game developer, my career, and the Australian game industry, lies in the hands of horribly misinformed and ignorant people, and I hope that the ABC will at least begin to right what they have done with this ridiculous program.
Thankyou for your time.”
I doubt they’ll see enough significance in this, but seeing as they’ve basically said the Office of Film and Literature Classification is not classifying things, maybe they’ll at least mention it online or something small.
Wait… didn’t everybody stop laughing at the Wii ages ago?
This makes me sad. When is the government in this country going to wake up to itself in relations to this.
Even some ‘informed and educated’ people, as these people probably think they are, still have no idea.
Fallout 3 = the new Marilyn Manson
The sad part is I got out of bed to watch this segment last night. Also afterwards I chatted (or typed really) with the guy who asked the question on Facebook. I pointed out to him that the question was full of holes and it was easy for uninformed panelists to misinterpret the question, but then he explained that before the show goes on the air the questions are rewritten/edited to suit the show because of the limited time allocated to each question.
So he was pretty much screwed from the start with the same scaremongers rewriting his question. Also he had his hand up for almost the entire time offering to correct the untrue statements but was pretty much ignored by all the panelists, and when the sounds cut out when he finally got another word in I knew there was no chance of this going well.
Sad to say, we may be stuck in this rut until Generation Y hits the appropriate age group to start making a difference in Australian politics.
Federal Government of Australia, here is a question that you people may need 10 years to answer: are ALL video games violent?
Alas, can the government grow up when it comes to this sort of thing? Apparently not. It is blatantly obvious that none of them have actually seriously played a video game before, no matter what genre. I find it rather difficult to comprehend the utter stupidity behind all their arguments. Parents are perfectly aware that video games might contain some violence, and that’s all very good, but what sort of parent would let a little kid play Grand Theft Auto?
The Xenophon dude’s psychology is bull. As stated somewhere above, the average gamer is 28 years old. People who are age and older are perfectly capable of deciding whether to copy violent traits shown in video games. A seperate report (can’t remember the source) claims that over the past few years the crime rate has decreased. I hope these politicians, so called, can work out what this means.
‘No ratings system on video games’? Who are you trying to kid?! The ‘non existent’ ratings system is what pretty much the whole Australian gamer population is trying to improve here. We want an R18+ rating for games, hence the existence of a proper but poor ratings system.
Barnaby Joyce. Urgh. I have nothing to say except ‘disgusting’. It’s interesting that you bring up rape. There are many, many more movies with pretty explicit views on rape, and yet they are still permitted into the country with an R18+/X rating. The concept which the government has astonishingly failed to grasp: video games are similar to movies, yet the games cannot have a similar ratings system. The gamers of Australia are consistently let down by an INCONSISTENT ratings system – Fallout 3 is RC, but jabbing EVE syringes into your wrist is considered MA15+?
Jackman woman (and rest of the panel) – a Wii, just in case you’ve been sleeping under rather large rocks for the past 2 years, is a CONSOLE, and a unique one at that. It is generally controlled with a white thing that you wave around, like a cursor on the screen. It’s nothing to laugh about. Get a life, all of you.
We have all seen the consequences of video games on behaviour for decades. What happened when Spacewars! was first played? Nothing. No one took shuttles into space and staged a rocket duel. When Space Invaders was first released, did people go out with body armour and gun down others with a turret? No. Did people who played Doom go out onto the streets and start a massacre? No. Did people who played San Andreas with the Hot Coffee mod pick up girls from a street corner, take them home and start raping them? No. This is probably a lame argument – but it’s passable.
I’m so disgusted by the sheer idiocy politicians in this country have shown.
the pokie argument was quite valid so that part of your argument was lost, in that how can the government approve pokies that generate a lot of revenue but adversely affect many lives, but ban video games that could (but not proven) adversely affect peoples lives?
Here’s what I find excruciatingly hilarious in all of this.
For the most part the government condemns games for their explicit nature. Grand Theft Auto for instance often crops up because you have the ability to steal cars, pickup prostitutes, deal drugs and kill innocent people mercilessly.
HOWEVER, under our current ratings system both the government and the OFLC, despite their objections, must feel that, horrible though it may be, all of this content is suitable for anyone that is at least 15.
If this was not the case then they’d have made the R rating long ago.
What does that say about them?
That was terrifying, not a single thing anyone said on that panel was even correct, no ratings system for games? rape simulators? the psychological research is that games make people violent?
Honestly if I hear anyone start their speech with “and I have children”, I may choke, what authority does having children give you on making arguements for and against R ratings, its not a rating for children.
Thank god for the above letter writer for setting the record straight, and thank god the shows on ABC so no one will have seen it :-P
Australia really needs a vocal champion with media attention to campaign over this issue. If these are people who are discussing the issue now, we are completely fucked.
these politicians must remind themselves that the opinions of the community supersede their own. And the video game industry is on the rise. Though I doubt this will reach the producers of this show, I do believe an apology is in place, as the lies of these politicians are truly despicable and outrageous given the immense breadth of the video game industry. Their opinions will be laughable in the history books, as were the condemnations of Shakespeare’s plays laughable. Such is the consequence of talking with minimal research.
anyways! apology! now! :(
These guys target something to demean, but unfortunately this time they’ve targetted one of the largest entertainment industries without realizing it :D this is really going to bite them in the ass and i’m loving every moment of it.
if any of these politicians want any future credibility, i suggest they apologize ASAP (+admit they didn’t know much about the topic at the time)!
I’m sorry but this was just a terribly misguided panel that had only a slight idea about what they were talking about. It also apears that, depressingly, they have all made their minds up on the idea that ‘games are bad’. Even the easy going Barnaby held this school of thought.
It seems that we’re only ever going to get some changes round hear when this generation of politicians that know nothing of games are replaced by those who do.
Fear not though Australia, for I am currently taking uni courses in politics, and know quite a number of my politics friends enjoy video games. So it may take a while, but there is hope.
When does this rape game come out? I’ve been closely following the gaming scene for a long time now (I do have Kotaku bookmarked after all ^^) and I have never heard of a game with a rape in it. I have seen plenty of movies where rape plays a part in the story, celebrated movies by the likes of Steven Spielberg and Kimberly Peirce for example, but I have yet to hear of any evidence of an actual video game where you go around raping people, or even with an actual rape scene in it (I’m actually struggling to think of a single game where an “implied rape” occured, let alone an on screen rape or player controlled rape).
I am certainly looking forward to this rape game, because when video games can take something as grotesque as a rape and have it artfully in a story just like some of our most lauded films, when this happens I will know that video games are on their way to becoming a respected entertainment just like our Golden Globe winning films are.
We can’t ignore the fact the guy who asked the question was also asked “Is that a fair summary?” after Jones made his ridiculous opening remark on Fallout 3 being a game where you take drugs and kill everybody.
The audience and panel take their cue FROM THE GUY WHO ASKED THE QUESTION, laughing at the fact he agreed that taking drugs and killing people was the premise of Fallout 3.
Every time I wish for change, another sub-par ‘representative’ of the gaming community puts their foot where their mouth is.
Lord, this makes me incredibly glad I don’t live in Australia. It seems like the government there is run by a bunch of ignorant right wing morons. For a nation that seems so forward thinking in some ways it’s incredibly scary in others.
Wow, this really makes me glad to not live in Australia. I mean lord, every time I read something (except for the recent moves towards recognition of the Aboriginal People) the government rulling the nation seems to be a bunch of ignorant right wing yahoos who’s head is so far up their own backsides they have to drop their fly to breathe. Where I live isn’t perfect and there are similar arguments going on, no where is perfect, but at least there’s not the active banning of media.
Frankly I was less then impressed by the questioner as well, the fact wasn’t raised that there are in fact no viable and legitimite studies proving increased violence based on game play, in fact there are studies that show the oposite is true. Additionaly he didn’t call them out on their lack of knowledge or the gross simplification of the material (despite his wearing a Vault-tech t-shirt.)
Any how, again a reason why I’d visit your lovely country but would never want to live there.