Capcom’s Next Wii Original Learning From Mistake Of Last One

I hate the new look. While technically it's better than the original debut it's lost all its personality and style.

The game takes itself way too serious and the color choices look so generic.

@commathe:

Games that Capcom fans want on the Wii sell like Zack & Wiki.

MooglesInMyFace

@NeoTurbo: yep.. okami, godhand... capcom games. im sure zack and wiki will be no different.... they shun the original games to exploit dmc, resident evil, and monster hunter.

@Kobun: lol!

@Pitchswitch: yeah, limited thinking on the part of the devs. same thing happened with the ds at first, until devs realized "hey we can make some awesome games without using a stylus" and then we got classics (at least for me) like sonic rush adventure, megaman zx, metal slug 7, castlevania order of ecclesia and contra 4 just to name a few. they could easily make a game like mgs 3 on the wii, and the lack of a right analog stick is more than compensated for with the remote being used as a pointer. but devs fail to see that.

i do think that nintendo should have included one classic controller in the box though.... knowing that every wii owner has a standard controller would have changed a lot of that, but also caused too many devs to not create some of the interesting controls we do have.

i really hope this is as fun as old beat em ups were. capcom's name is synonymous with some of the greatest beat em up expriences out there.

alot of the games people put the beat em up tag on these days arent really beat em ups. theyre more like "3d action." its kinda like how lost odyssey, last remnant, infinite undiscovery and a few other recent games are "jrpgs" but lack the magic of the older jrpgs. and also, god of war and devil may cry arent beat em ups in the first place.. more like their weapon based cousins... hack and slash.

batman arkham asylum captures quite a bit of that old school feel, the only problem is the inability to pick up anything and use it as a weapon, or smash random items in the environment. oh, and co-op.. which is one of the biggest reasons im stoked for this.

also, zack and wiki didnt sell because adventure games are too niche.. i really dont think the graphics had anything to do with it. i found the art direction rather exciting, and think the game would have lacked a bit of its charm without it. one of my favorite games for the wii, and it actually made me go back and play snatcher and policenauts. good stuff.

Fuck your sales. Make Zack and Wiki 2 anyway, Capcom.
I'll still buy it.

AtticusSP

@Suichimo:
I was wondering when someone would mention advertising. Capcom didn't advertise shit when Zack and Wiki came to the states, I didn't even see an online ad at the usual places like gamefaqs and such. The only advertising I recall this game getting was from Matt at IGN. Only in preparation for the European release did I see a website with a kinda flash demo for one of the levels. But in the end I kinda feel like advertising wouldn't make that much of a difference. I however strongly feel the game would have done better if it was released closer to the wii launch

I'm probably alone on this, but I thought the initial info and screens about this game looked a lot more interesting and original. The only impression I'm getting is that of a dumbed down beat'em up with a bland seen-it-before style.

Bluetribal

@Cloral: I think this looks more kiddie in a way; Zack and Wiki was just cute and charming and had a perfect style for the game. This looks like something targeted towards kids while trying to look all cool. I would probably have prefered it if either went just bit more cartoony or a bit more realistic

beril

@Boom-Chicka-Ah: Buy Little King's Story damnit; it's better than 90% of all first party games

beril

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid: "because they believe it's heaps and bounds beyond the regular wii game in terms of graphics, it should be compared to HD blockbusters..."

You could be right. But I think that's funny if it's true. In the article, Stephen actually mentions gameplay only 1 fewer times than he mentions graphics. Honestly, quality of gameplay is the only realistic comparison between Wii games and HD console games, as the graphics will almost never be comparable. I suppose in a highly stylized game, you could make graphics "irrelevant" but that's a completely different conversation.

@Combine: They would have finally found a legit use for waggle though..

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@GoddardHalomitosis: There go writing comprehension and self-esteem... better close that window, buddy

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@subnet6: I've reread the article, and though it seems they mention the graphics of the game a lot, your point's not ungrounded. However, they aim all their arrows on the graphics in this specific article. (which is all i have to go on, plus pic) This leads me to believe that because they believe it's heaps and bounds beyond the regular wii game in terms of graphics, it should be compared to HD blockbusters... But then again, your point can't be dismissed, i remain skeptical, maybe just because i can put on the old Rock-frown and pluk my beardstubble...

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@phor11: They should have called it Zack and Wiki Make a Porno. Would have done better... but then they would have changed gameplay.

Combine

@KichiGuy: "MGS3 was done on the PS2, so why can't we see something of that calibur on the Wii?"

You sir, have hit the nail on the head. I think the problem lies in the controller. Specifically, with such a different kind of controller, you are (almost?) forced into making a non-traditional gaming experience. I just don't see games of MGS3 caliber coming out for years to come simply because the controller is too (relatively) new.

@GoddardHalomitosis: Hey genius, they're not making the game for "nintendo", they're making it for the consumer who owns a Wii. Big difference. What are you? 12?

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid: "Because they were not comparing them in terms of gameplay"

Actually, I think you misunderstood what you quoted. I think what he's saying is something along the lines of, "if our games get compared for their gameplay, then we must make sure the graphics are comparable as well."

He's not saying, "If we can be compared GRAPHICALLY with the God of Wars and Devil May Crys then we have to look that good."

I mean that should be obvious because if they already looked as good, they WOULD be compared graphically. No, I think it's clear he's talking about gameplay style/genre similarity creating a situation that necessitates graphical similarity. Now, I doubt they will ever be comparable graphically, but I appreciate the fact that he recognizes the importance for this style of game.

@Powerlurker: But we're comparing games that may look a bit "kiddie" in form that are clearly named in an adult fashion.

Zach and Wiki is NOT a title that says "this game is not only for kids" to me.

The name of the game is probably most to blame for its poor sales in my opinion.

@Borateen: Oh man, really? I giggled like a moron every time I heard "Zaaaaaaakuuuuuuu!" It's become one of my favorite things to imitate when trying to get my girlfriend's attention, next to "Hey! Listen!"

Different strokes, I guess.

716

@Ero-Sennin: Then you must be some gaming-god. Because on top of the fact that any attack from an enemy, on any difficulty level, disrupts your attack (and your attacks don't disrupt theirs), add to that in God mode (not Insane mode) that it takes about 6-8 hits and you're dead, if that, it's not absurdly easy for everyone.

Grraaah. =[ I bought Zack and Wiki. I'll buy this one too... probably... maybe... if it's good... maybe... Yeah fine. Okay I will... Must support Capcom's interesting ventures on a console where nobody else would buy it.

It's Clank!

im still not buying this. i buought a nintendo console for nintendo games. nintendo is in a lot of ways like apple. their products works best on their machines. only exception is if i get a megaman game or a GOOD sonic game on it. oh and okami and viewtiful joe (1/2 already fulfilled that dream.)

@Powerlurker: Psychonauts was not kiddy. Or maybe kiddy in the sense that Tekkon Kinkreet was childishly drawn... it's an art style.

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@Ero-Sennin: Not all games are about the challenge of button presses. God of war, in my humble opinion, has transcended the beat 'em up genre. When sometimes you just stop and look around at the intricacies of level design, it's more an art form then button mashing. That, and they are in no way absurdly easy.. i mean comon.. go play Demon's Souls if you want difficult, just ask Archaotic on that one..

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@Augur: Huh? Viva Pinata looks amazing, is well reviewed, and is quite successful. If you mean people dismissing the game due to the license, the a sequel baring the same license will not change that perception one bit.

@Sutekh_Slain: Ludacris!! Ludacris I tells ya!!

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@fronsac:

Think "Psychonauts" as well.

Powerlurker

@SeraphX2: too bad the gameplay in god of war is a fucking joke. sure, the games always look pretty but they might as well be playing themselves, they're absurdly easy, even on insane difficulty.

@Stephen Totilo: Because they were not comparing them in terms of gameplay:

If this is already more than you're used to reading about graphics for a Wii game, that's no accident. Graphics are important to this Wii game. Allison said the team's philosophy is that: "If we can be compared with the God of Wars and Devil May Crys then we have to look that good. There's no excuses."

He speaks of graphics, granted he fails to specify whether this comparison applies to the current gen or last gen, but that's still a very steep hill to climb. I'm not shunning Wii-games for graphics but when a Capcom executive throws these names around, i'm gonna be skeptical. Very skeptical, mr. Totilo.

will be continued...

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

@Ueziel: I wonder how they ever got that ridiculous notion ...

@katsujinken: No need to go overboard. Zack just needed a flaming shoryuken.

@HELLSRIDER is playing Mother 3:
Beyond Good and Evil was another title that looked kiddie but wasn't kiddie in it's themes.

fronsac

@BigBossPETE: Zack and Wiki sucked?! checks user profile*
I cant see you having any consoles so how would you know if it sucks or not?

Localization was desperately needed in Zack & Wiki. The creepy/cute-turned-obnoxious sound bites of both Japanese and Engrish words didn't carry over well. Each time you died: "Zaaaaaaakuuuuuuu!" After dying a couple times, I had the mute button then ready to go. Or when the bunny-pilot said, "Good Ruck!" ...C'mon, that's just lazy.

Nice to see somebody admit that there's no excuse for bad graphics for the Wii. Yes its true that the Wii will probably never be able to match the visuals of the PS3 or 360, but that doesn't mean that games can look bad. Consumers want to play games where a lot of effort went in, and one of the most visible displays of efforts are the visuals. So lowballing the graphics just because the hardware is weaker isn't going to cut it from a marketing perspective.

Besides, the Wii isn't a bad little piece of hardware. Theoretically it should be able to output some fairly impressive 480p level graphics.

WolvenOne

@Darkest Daze: Exactly, it pisses me off to see over advertized shit when good games are out there and are just there in the dark. BTW Im not saying GTA IV is shit.

@Marceux: Team Fortress 2 may like to differ too. What about castle crashers? it looks kiddie in the art style but it is kinda gory at times. Seriously even when things look kiddie and are not gory it doesnt mean that its just for kids, take Mario as an example, it has always looked kiddie and it never was a problem, people have always enjoyed its games, its just latelly when people seem to notice its aspect more than its gameplay.

I want a Zak and Wiki sequel! This game looks really polished. I hope there are some new mechanics to mix up the action that they have that they have not shown yet. It would be a shame if it was a straight beat-em up.

BrainEater

@Kobun: Lol, this is my new favourite comment anywhere ever.

Today.

Alex Winton

@BigBossPETE: "You wanna fight?"

"Them's fightin' words!"

716

Godspeed, Capcom. I hope your sales do well if this game is as good as the team here says it is.

noelix

So excited for this game, and whatever the team does next. Capcom + Ex-Insomniacs = Best. Megaman. Ever.

thatoneguy42

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid: It's an action brawler with crazy combos. Hence it could be lumped into the same genre category. Why knock them for aiming to be compared to those games in terms of gameplay?

@pslong9: Ya if Capcom ever makes a sequel to Zack & Wiki and they want it to sell then they're going to have to change Zack into a stoic Space Marine & Wiki into his tough yet scantily clad partner. And the only puzzle will be deciding with what gun you use to blow those treasure hording aliens back to hell.

The art style looks like a Ratchet and Clank or Kameo more then GOW or DMC. Not a bad thing, but not really what they're comparing it to.

Darkest Daze

@Stealth_chill: In 'troubled times' such as these, throwing cars around and making cute mechanical grunting noises can only get you so far.

Sparky13

@Suichimo: Yep, games that are new and need the advertising to get their name out there never get one cent of marketing money, but games like GTA which don't need a single penny of advertising to sell 10 bazillion copies are on TV, billboards, buses, and magazines.

Darkest Daze

@pslong9: The majority of gamers overall don't seem to like games that make them think or make them use more then reflexes. (Brain Age doesn't count, since it relies on middle school math and training yourself to do the same thing everyday)

Darkest Daze

I think Zack & Wiki's problem lay more with its lack of promotion and getting overshadowed by other releases more than the visuals.

When they don't put the money and effort get the word out on new IPs, they can't be surprised when they perform disappointingly.

I just hope that they realize this so that fun art styles like Z&W's aren't forever chucked out the window in favour of the pixar style...it's going to get stale real fast if they abuse it.

no.... just let it go, "Zack & Wiki" sucked.

stop kidding yourselves..... although this looks far better, but then that's not saying much for Z&W.

BigBossPETE

@Kobun: They mention GoWar and DMC because this game, like those, is a beatemup. I think they need to work a little harder on the boss' model (large robot), but I think they did well with the graphics. I just hope this game's gameplay and length hold up.

Wii 3rd party devs need to realize that Wii owners are going to compare Wii games to PS2, and 360/PS3. Wii games need to not only be great looking, but overall they need to be an amazing experience. MGS3 was done on the PS2, so why can't we see something of that calibur on the Wii? Devs, get in gear, or be prepared for failure. Wii won't pay $50 for your half-assed attempt at a Wii game.

@GoddardHalomitosis: ...what are you talking about? I'm really confused.

pslong9

@Spootythegameguru: The majority of gamers overall don't seem to like the adventure / puzzle types. It's a sad, sad thing.

pslong9

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid:
"Golden Snes days of olde.. what happened."
We got tired of buying Batman forever, and (awesome) crap like Superman 64.

@Kobun: Haha, seriously.

Hey_Blinkon

Zack & Wiki was fantastic, but I do agree it wasn't marketed very well. The graphics and presentation were very kiddy, but the actual game had you using your brain in unique ways. It also uses the Wii Remote to its full extent, proving that it would actually be a lot more boring if the game was released for the 360/PS3.

I don't think going all Gears of War would've made it better. Something along the lines of Ratchet & Clank (suitable for children, but not outright "kidddy") would make a lot more sense.

RockyRan

I figured out what was wrong a long time ago. Game companies need to tell Nintendo to screw off and stop allowing themselves to get burned by them in some half-assed attempt to make decent games for them

GoddardHalomitosis

I appreciate original and thought-provoking games as much as the next guy, but Z&W just isn't my cup of tea (read: point and click adventure puzzle).

Spyborgs seems to be trying out an original take on sci-fi co-op play mixed with the graphics of Ratchet & Clank. I'm most certainly intrigued. Hopefully it plays well.

The real problem is that the "gamers" of this era just assume that every Wii game, regardless of reviews, is filled with "waggle" (ugh, I hate that phrase).

It's ridiculous.

@HELLSRIDER is playing Mother 3: And it never well. Especially with GoW3 just around the corner. They are doing with it what every GoW game has done on the PS2 and PSP: push the system to its limits.

@Augur: I personally love the graphical style of Trouble in Paradise (and as a default, the original VP). They're truly a breath of fresh air after playing bland brown'n'gray color schemed games.

RockyRan

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid: You took off your rose tinted glasses? :p Games were hyped back then, but the media exposure games received can't compared to what the Internet and dedicated video game TV brings. Just a sign of technology advancement and the greater exposure for the industry as a whole really.

That's the lesson that Viva Pinata needed to learn before making a sequel.

Augur

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid:

"Golden Snes days of olde.. what happened..[set-up]"

the internet.

Shame that Zack and Wiki didn't do better at retail, since it really is one of the few standouts in the otherwise dreadful Wii software library.

zsciaeount

It would also help to advertise your game so that people understand what it is you are selling.

mrgregs

Also, dont use a generic sounding kids-show-esque name like Spyborgs either. Maybe make games that Capcom fans actually want on the Wii.

commathe

"If we can be compared with the God of Wars and Devil May Crys then we have to look that good. There's no excuses."

...There is no popsicle's chance in hell.. that is what i'm assuming you meant. I'm also interested to see who exactly is making that comparison, seems like overcompensating pr-spin to me...

Ahh.. overcompensating pr-spin.. I remember the day when "hype" emerged as soon as seeing the box-art, minutes away from actually purchasing the cartridge...

Golden Snes days of olde.. what happened..[set-up]

D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid

Here is another way to help. Advertise.

Its amazing how many games don't get the chance they deserve because there was no advertising for them.

Shame, Zack and Wiki was such an awesome game. I'm still hoping they'll make a sequel, I mean this IS Capcom after all. =p

NeoTurbo

How much will Capcom charge for the co-op?

I don't know that he's right, but he does have a point. I got Z&W, and while some of the puzzles took me many tries to complete, the kiddiness of the graphics always made me cringe a bit when I turned it on.

Cloral

@Marceux: Conker says fuckem if they can't take a joke.

Zack and Wiki 2: The Quest for Booze and 'Tang. A more "adult" theme for a previously misleading "adult" game.

Well this game looks interesting. Zack & Wiki, I think, catered to a niche gamer. (Not saying it wasn't good!)

I think making the game more visually appealing will draw in a different, more broad crowd. Kudos, Capcom!

So this is the only job "Dog" can get after half-life 2?

Stealth_chill

I've really come to appreciate Z&W but there is always that realization that graphics nor artistic style made the game. Sure, it helps at first glance. But, the majority of gamers on the Wii just don't seem like the adventure/puzzle types. Even when they say they are, did they buy? Seemingly not. It's a tough genre to sell these days.

Hmm, I wonder if people finally realized that games that look "kiddie" are thought to be "for kids".

Marceux

If they can actually use the controller in a logical and interesting manner, I'm set. Most of the Wii games I've played are just waggle-fests.

Co-op is a good step, though. I may be more forgiving in the waggle department if it turns out to be a fun co-op experience. Not enough co-op games, in my opinion.

Humongor

But I dont really think it compares that well in graphics with those 2.

well played.

interested in checking this one out.

tkshredder

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: So you just throw out the whole "video" part, huh?

@Spootythegameguru: I love adventure and puzzle games, the Lucasarts classics are among my favourite of all time, and I still load up the annual IF competition games every year.

But I never got Zak and Wiki, and have no interest in it, because it looks hideous and boring, and the characters look completely obnoxious. I don't even mind if a game looks kiddie (I'm a big fan of Windwaker, and the Mario games, for instance), but the design on Z&W was just atrocious ugly anime shit.

@MooglesInMyFace: really? did RE5 bomb on the Wii and I missed it?

salaminizer

so there are excuses for other games looking shit? bah

salaminizer

zack n wiki was awesome, loved that game

You either love or hate Zack & Wiki. Most people hated it. I hated it too.

I played right through to the end in the hopes of recapturing that feeling of playing Day of the Tentacle or Secret of Monkey Island but Z&W not only looked juvenile, it was juvenile. Those repeated sound samples drove me nuts the whole way.

floppylobster

@GoddardHalomitosis: E- for comprehension and content. But D+ for effort. See you again next semester.

@Combine: He's fast... so fast.

Jason Calvert

@SeraphX2: Just do the spin thingy, beat the whole game that way.

@D-K, Came for the punch, stayed for the band-aid: I don't play games to look at things...

@shouryuuken:

Capcom doesn't make sequels until a game is a least 10 years old. If you got a zack and wiki sequel now, it'd be called "Z&W II Turbo" and it'd be the same damn game only z&w now have new pant suits and you could play as the bosses. ;)

HowardC

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: I've only bothered to play the PSP one, but I noted that's all you had to do... I mixed it up to make the game more insteresting though.

It was still over in 4 hours or so... dissappointing.

Capcom should be put in charge of Pixar's games.

AlucardsQuest

Muramasa: the Demon Blade is a Wii game that looks absolutely incredible, so I think that with some ingenuity it can be done. I hope that one does well (and is good) too.

M4gast0n

@HELLSRIDER is playing Mother 3: Mario doesn't count, because he's old - 8 bit old. Meaning: SMB wasn't only played by kids (although most of them were young, but that's true for virtually all video games of the time), and the kids that played it are adults now (and have been for quite some time).

Zack & Wiki look like cartoons for very young kids, and no adult would think otherwise without doing the research.

As for Castle Crashers: the art style is cartoony, but not in a "kiddy" way.

JTF

Maybe to avoid the same fate they could spend more than pocket change on advertising this time.

It's amazing how bad Capcom is at figuring out that hype and advertising translate into sales. Their failure to understand this is what killed Clover.

Kainy

@syl1985: you REALLY hate video games. I'm impressed

everything with this article is fine except the title.

Z&W was a "mistake"!? you say yourself it's a quality title and it is.

low sales + high quality = "cult classic" at WORST.

low sales + low quality = "mistake"

please keep that in mind.

Crash__Man

@robinthakur: Your Zelda example doesn't hold up, as Nintendo has always made the best games for their systems every console rotation. I'm talking 3rd party, which I thought was understood.

Nintendo thought of something different when they made the Wii, and obviously had a jump start on what they wanted the games to do as an innovator (take that term how you will I'm no fanboy). 3rd party devs are going to take a long time to get into the same mindset as Nintendo.

I don't doubt they have the greatest chance for profit with the install base, but it's not going to happen for awhile.

@Pitchswitch: No, you can use the cnotroller to make pretty traditional games (See Zelda TP) so that's not a good excuse. Even now, its weird that developers aren't devoting more time and money to developing for the biggest selling console bar none (ok maybe the DS) They might bleat about the casual gaming dominated system, but at the end of the day, they've got the highest installed user base and therefore the highest chance of success if they develop a good product and market it well.

robinthakur

@NeoTurbo: Na, they;'ve released a load of good games over the years which didn't do well and didn't get sequels (or more than a couple). Slam masters, that mech fighting game, Powerstone, Tech Romancer, Rival Schools, Okami.

Every once in a while Capcom pays fan-service by remembering its fans from a while ago (Think DC era) by releasing something interesting like SF4 or TvsC or even re-releasing more MVC2 in 'HD' those purist gamers who generally turn their noses up at most of their mainstream offerings yet who don't constitute enough of the current games buying public to cater to exclusively, yet who helped put Capcom were it currently is.

Bottom line, is that if Zack and Wiki didn't even do well in Japan, then its not the animé looks holding it back.

robinthakur

@Ueziel:

Well, if it´s well implemented, i seriously don´t mind waggle controls in a game but the real problem here is that there´s somehow this notion that they have the controls in question have to be force feed into already decades old Nintendo franchises, which is a fucking joke.

@bakana: Whilst I love all lucasarts games, and the majority of Capcom ones, I actually found it surprisingly hard to like Zack and Wiki. I just found the mechanics to be a bit stilted, and elements of it were a bit annoying like the monkey-bell thingy (err...Wiki). I think they were shooting for the same audience who liked Powerstone and other similar animé styled games, but whilst the graphics were certainly nice enough (certainly not ugly), the title was a confusing stab at creating a new IP franchise and put alock of people off by making it seem like a cheapo cash in on saturday morning kids cartoons, unless you know what it is beforehand.

robinthakur

Capcom have actually been doing the damn thing as of lately. Their GameCube and Wii games have always been pretty decent so far anyway, so I'm eager to see how this game turns out.

@syl1985: I loved it, carnage on the go. lol.

@JTF:
Your argument is full of holes. Are you suggesting that devs should stop making any game of depth with graphics of wide appeal? Mario was "kiddy" looking but very sophisticated. If there are no Sophisticated, "kiddy" looking games made now, then what will today's kids be playing in 15 years? Nothing. The hobby will die.

I have to say, only a teenager (in age or mentality) can't get over the fact that something (movie, TV, game) does not need to be gritty and realistic and "adult" to be satisfying.

Only a child who thinks they are sophisticated but are not thinks that way.

Qui-GonJim

@Suichimo: Seriously. The only advertising Zack and Wiki got was a few blogs saying "BUY ZACK AND WIKI!" Yea, that generally doesn't bode well for sales.

@Ueziel: You realize that waggle IS real and it IS a problem that plagues a large portion of the Wii's library, don't you?

RockyRan