Dragon Age To Be SecuROM-Free

@Armagetiton: The DnD ruleset isn't necessary for the game to be a spiritual successor.

Skill-based dialogue, branching conversation trees, party-oriented combat, character interactions, neato fantasy setting... so far so good, I say.

@Rctdaemon: Nope. Follow the source and read the topic on their forums. They said no TAGES. Basic disc check only. They have said that a number of times in the topic. The article here spells out no activations in plain English as well. They've also said no Starforce, but I think that goes without saying. SafeDisc is dead now so they can't use them either.

Derangel

@Derangel: I must've been jaded from those years. I will concede that EA has changed in the past couple of years and I have applauded them for it, but at the same time, with EA's PC "anti-piracy" measures in the past year, I'm not completely convinced.

Notice that there is only a confirmation that SecuRom is not being used. There are still other activation limiting copy protections out there like Tages.

@CyberSkull:
then there are cracked exe that can bypass even that...

i hate having to take out discs to play games so i use them often...

then i do love digital distributions like Steam where i don't even have to mess with discs...

Disc in drive is a reasonable compromise we can all agree on.

@Derangel: Late 90s/early 2000s rather.

Derangel

@Rctdaemon: If this were EA of the 90s/early 2000s, you'd have a point. However, they have changed a lot in the last couple years. And yes it would be stupid to do exactly the opposite of what you said. That is called lying to the customer and its not like gamers are terribly forgiving or that we wouldn't just turn elsewhere for our games.

Derangel

@BlisteringOrange: Who did what before?

If this signals a change in EA's DRM policy, that's great, but the least they could do is offer a mea culpa to all the customers who were affect by their little experiment.

I mean you had a lot of people affected by and complaining about limited activations and the company line was that the limited activations were a necessary evil. Now, suddendly, they're not so necessary?

It's not the DRM itself which I find egregious, it's just their patronizing dishonesty with the customer base.

Sweetz

@Str8_Jihadin:
I agree with this. It'd be nice if no games had this most annoying form of protection.

FlamingZelda

Well, this is good news. I had to pass on Mass Effect PC because of Securom, and I worried I'd have to do the same for Dragon Age.

MechaTama31

@Ken: Except it didn't stop one pirate - because you can't stop one pirate, not one or two or one million. One person cracking the game is all it takes, so you can only stop all or none of them, and the former almost never happens.

Maybe SecuRom didn't affect you, but it certainly affected many legitimate customers. Ironic how you say Starforce was terrible, but there were plenty of people that never had any problems with Starforce. So DRM is ok as long as it doesn't affect you personally? How many people need to be affected before it's unacceptable?

I'm ok with DRM as long as it doesn't have ANY meaningful impact on legitimate customers. You can't say that about limited activation DRM. Limiting activations is idiotically shortsighted. Sure if you play a game once and forget it ever existed you're fine, but there are a lot of use that like to replay games many times over many years and it's too easy to legimately run out of activations through formats and upgrades. Even with a de-activation tool you still have to remember to de-activate. Uninstall or format without de-activating you're still screwed.

Sweetz

@Derangel: I never said anything about EA or Bioware being stupid. All I said was that EA will gladly stab their customers in the back like this.

Stop me if I'm wrong, but that seems to be more of a criticism of EA's known business practices than calling them "stupid".

@Gargus: They did the same with Neverwinter Nights. Why are people up in fucking arms all of a sudden now that is is called by another fucking name? They said already that there is another group working on post release content. Just like Neverwinter Nights.

Derangel

@Rctdaemon: And yet they've already said there isn't any activation. Ever since Mass Effect, EA has been completely upfront about their DRM policy. They're not going to change it now. Neither EA or Bioware are as stupid as you seem to think they are.

Derangel

@TaggarT6 trips the light fantastic:
Me as well. This is a major factor determining whether or not I purchase PC games these days.

One of these days I may get around to buying Spore, but it's just so much work to have to buy it and then get a cracked version to avoid ever allowing SecuROM onto my PC (the box will remain sealed forever).
Good on EA for allowing this.

@Derangel: I'm sorry I didn't get technical. Most people play their games after installing them, you obviously don't.

@Paul_Is_Drunk: Um... He knows there isn't any multiplayer. A lot of the hardcore online players from Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights had Dragon Age at the top of their DO WANT list years before it got any mainstream attention. Not only does Bioware not have it at launch, they've not even made provisions in the code to put it in later.

This leaves a number of us heartbroken. Sure, there's no doubt that it'll be a nice single-player experience, but there's no way it can occupy the thousands of hours that Neverwinter Nights did in the past now that multiplayer is out of the question.

This leaves potential next-gen online forays up to NWN3, which is in the hands of Atari (Ugh...) and whoever they delegate development to... or if Bioware decides to release multiplayer in Dragon Age's unannounced sequel.

Only time will tell! [/DunDunDunnn]

Ok bioware gets +1 for not using securom.

Now bioware gets a -17 for talking about how they have alot of downloadable content to sell us......before the fucking game is even out. Cant they atleast wait till they release a game before they start gouging people for more money?

Talking about DLC before a game is even released is pure greed. If the content is so great why not put it in the fucking game when it comes out?

It always comes off as "Yeah we got a game coming out soon but we didnt include all of it, we left some of it out so we can sell it to you in pieces later"

For all the replies, I never had any issues with SecuROM and I'm pretty sure the only reason why it got cracked as fast as it did and focused so much is the douche ba... er pirates wanting to try and prove something.

SecuROM was justified to me. Look at Zenoclash, Demigod, World of Goo, and more. I had zero issues with SecuROM. Starforce was terrible, but that's a different story. Now with Deauthorization tools, even less to complain about!

Or they could just put it on steam.

Either way you cut it, pirates = douche bags,excuses, yadda yadda. I would take SecuROM even if stopped one pirate. That's how much I hate the horrible self indulgent tendencies of today's moron.

Ken

@Rctdaemon: There is no DRM that limits installations. Limits are by ACTIVATION only, not installation. Please get your facts straight.

Derangel

@BlisteringOrange: Disc Check in SecuROM is optional. Actually most things with SecuROM are optional. Install limits, online activation, not allowing phone activation, disc check. SR7 is pretty much editable to however the publisher wants it. It can be used as a simple disc check, as it has been for over a decade, or to force online activation or a combination of the two.

Derangel

Funny, I seem to remember a similar comment about Mass Effect and 'lo and behold, it came back to bite them in the ass.

Calling it right now: there will still limited installations and everyone will still complain about it. Why? Because Bioware is owned by EA now and as we all know, EA will gladly stab their customers in the back like this for another sale.

@TaggarT6 trips the light fantastic:

Ditto...as long as my computer can run it.

rabidkeebler

@ReconToaster.: A simple disc-check is worse than online authentification and being dependable on the availability of external activation servers? And being on Steam IS a horrible DRM method.

And by they way ... you can use the unavoidable cd-ceck remover and keep your disc wherever you store your discs ... people sometimes ...

Kajetan

@ReconToaster.: But securom does require the disc still, dont they? Just download a no-cd patch the way everyone else does before when they want to keep their discs...

@KaneRobot: I used to guess on those.

@RockyRan: They did it before with other games already! C'mon! Enough with the hate :P

Ugh, that's possibly the worst form of DRM in my mind. I never understood why Secu-rom was thought to be so terrible. I agree that it's only harmful to legit consumers, but I think its effects are dramatized.

This, however, is just annoying. It really bugs me when I have to put my games in... it's just something I've gotten used to not doing, and I hate having cases clutter up my desk.

Anyways, I'm sure this will be on Steam, so it's really not a problem. STEAM FTW!

ReconToaster.

@Paul_Is_Drunk: New is fine, unless it's worse than the old.

Valnen

@Paul_Is_Drunk: What you say would be true if monitors had the same resolution now as they did then, but they don't. For me, the problem is not the quality of the graphics per se, but rather that a 800x600 window on my current 1920x1200 monitor would be so small I could hardly make out what was going on.

In other words, I don't really care about the graphics looking markedly better so much as they look at least as good when I play the game on a full screen. That can't happen without redoing the graphics.

@Valnen: Hold on there skippy. The console Baldur's gate games where fantastic. Sure they were nothing like the PC version but they were great hack and slash fun.

Lincolnsbeard33

@Valnen: You're right. Then, after that, someone should just go back an make every somewhat popular movie of the last 30 years. Oh, wait... they're already doing that, and it sucks.

Maybe... just maybe... people would like new games. Those of us old enough to play Baldur's Gate 2 when it came out had no problem with the graphics. Maybe it's just because my first videogame was Mario/DuckHunt, but anyone that wants to play a classic game and won't because of graphics is kind of pathetic.

Paul_Is_Drunk

@Eulogy: Hey! You judged before you know anything about it. How novel.

Paul_Is_Drunk

@Armagetiton: It's a spiritual successor the same way Marylin Manson is Alice Cooper's prodigal son. (As in, he's not his literal son).

If it had D&D rules, it would simply be it's successor.

Paul_Is_Drunk

Securom or not, no one will be able to stop every single person that wants to pirate the game and play it for free.

nygiants10

Hell, I was gonna snag this game even with SecuROM on it. Now I'm definitely getting this game.

Jiawei Sun

@Valnen: Well, the PC version got the amount of skills on each class cut down by 25% because they can't map it all to console controls, so if that's not consolitis...

@Armagetiton: While it isn't the D&D ruleset, it looks like the combat system is going to be similar to Baldur's Gate.

Maybe they'll also have green (Ankheg) Armor hidden in a ridiculously hard to find spot somewhere in a field.

Ranged360

Spiritual successor to Baldur's gate? Hopefully not the horrid console Baldur's gate games?

Man, some artist with tons of time on his hands should just redo all the graphics in Baldur's Gate 2 and call it a day.

Valnen

@Armagetiton: well, it's the first RPG in years developed by Bioware with PC as the main platform, and I guess it's spiritual sucessor regarding the overall "feel" of the game

salaminizer

Still no multiplayer, and it's suffering from extreme consolitis. I'm sorry, I'll stick with the superior products: Baldur's Gate, NWN1, NWN2.

@Armagetiton: If it were the exact same it would be baldur's gate 2....

@Ken: just wanna interject.... nice try.

@Ken: FYI, those who downloaded the game by pirating it didn't have to deal with the DRM at all. They just installed it and played. No muss, no fuss at all.

It's only if you bought the game legally that you ever had to deal with it.

So...

@Armagetiton: Besides, you know the obvious (a fantasy RPG made by bioware).

Sounds like they are using the name Baldur's Gate to sell the game to me.

Armagetiton

bring back having to look up the 10th word on page 23 of the manual.

KaneRobot

I don't exactly understand how this game is a spiritual successor of baldur's gate if it doesn't use a D&D ruleset. Anyone care to explain?

Armagetiton

@unangbangkay: Does anyone actually still use Starforce in new games? I figured maybe all the bad publicity from a few years back scared everyone away.

KaneRobot

@Power_Wrist:

Hey!
Don't blame it on the Chinese.

Firelance

@Ken: SecuROM never stopped piracy in any way shape or form. It made no difference to the pirates, it was the legitimate customers who were complaining.

JellyDoodle91

I always have a problem when I don't "buy" a game so much as rent it for an extended time. There should be a better way to prevent piracy than this.

bring back the dongle.

Power_Wrist

@unangbangkay: In my opinion, DRM is a complete scam, hoax, and shenanigans.

The only way to completely solve piracy is to stop the overseas companies that are producing peg legs.

Power_Wrist

You know, it's kind of weird that people now jump up and down at the sight of "copy protection" technology similar to those in the '90s.

Goes to show how SecuROM has been doing nothing but driving the PC industry BACKWARDS. When 90's technology is better than the current one, you know something's up.

RockyRan

@Sweetz: Probably the second question is what drove EA to do this.

RockyRan

@Str8_Jihadin: I second that motion

Kiri Komori

ok, now everyone spam the amazon reviews with 5 stars for not having securom

Kiri Komori

sold. thank you bioware

Lemmywinks

They just earned themselves another sale. :)

Well, they released Deauthorization tools for all their SecuROM games, so I'm still ok with them using it, but this will kill all the whining those games got, so hooray!

Now we won't hear them whining because they will be pirating it!

Yay!

:(

Ken

And what exactly is EA's company line in regard to this. Has the state of PC game piracy drastically changed? Or did they realize that limited online authentication did nothing to curb it while driving legitimate customers away?

Once, just once, I'd really like to see a company own up to their stupidity.

Sweetz

I'm hoping they didn't abandon SecuROM only to choose Starforce...

Consider me sold.

Good.

Now do the same for Mass Effect 2!

Sounds good to me. Anyone got the tech specs?

@Combine: Daggerfall was buggy as shit at launch. Was still buggy when they stopped patching. Morrowind was buggy as shit at launched. Still buggy once they stopped patching. It's the nature of the game. Different studio behind them, but the first two Fallout games were a technical nightmare at launch. Just because they're working on consoles now as well doesn't mean they should limit the scope of their games so they're able to fix bugs. I'm sorry if you're not familiar with how big games like these are, but it simply isn't possible to fix everything. Especially before release. Gamers never cared before, but in this age where everyone is a whiny little bitch and expects everything handed to them on a silver fucking platter those days have been forgotten.

As for DLC. Whats the difference between a full expansion being split into three parts and sold for the price of the average expansion? Its easier to do DLC. You don't have to deal with retail channels. You don't have to deal with the demands of retailers and the pain in the butt contracts. This way when you buy DLC most or all of it goes to the people behind the game. It isn't split between retail chains and delivery drivers. I didn't have a problem with DLC before it was called that and I won't have a problem with it now.

Derangel

@Str8_Jihadin: EA, listen to the masses... of three people! Please, let me enjoy Mass Effect 2 (and Dragon Age).

@RuthLoose: Ballparking, I'm guessing the minimum specs are roughly the same as Mass Effect's, since they're both made to work on the 360.

@Meteoric: Really? Damn. That makes me a sad panda.

Guess I'll wait and see what my options are. D:

@Paul_Is_Drunk: Yeah. Most qualms about "consolitis" directed at Bioware is totally uncalled for with the level of polish they gave Mass Effect.

I personally can't wait for Dragon Age... I was just hoping Bioware would dip their toes back into custom multiplayer content. What they did with Neverwinter Nights definately blew Little Big Planet right out of the water.

Obsidian didn't really have a fair go at Neverwinter Nights 2, since the engine really needed to be rebuilt from the ground up... which makes me so excited for NWN3. Fourth Edition means they'll likely have to start from scratch, which could mean better game mechanics and more stable net-code for the online players of the DnD franchise.

Better yet, they both get to work on multiplayer. That'd really make my head explode in a few years.

@Derangel: wasn't/isn't fallout 3 on PC still completely bug ridden and broken as a result?
From what I've gathered / heard from various sources was that Fallout 3 was a horrible buggy mess at release. I think thats lazy and inexcusable.
As for them talking about DLC before release, I find that annoying. I don't like DLC. I would prefer they make a substantial amount of content, and release it as an expansion. Instead of a bunch of seperate downloadable packs, that slowly build up to the same amount.

Combine

@Krackatoa or...: Too bad, every mention of Steam availability ends in a locked thread.

Meteoric

@TaggarT6 trips the light fantastic:
Consider me sold as well.

@Derangel: Bioware and WA? Wow...How did I miss that one? Kotaku needs an edit feature.

Derangel

@Anthony Noel: DRM is always up to the publisher. Bioware could have asked them not to, but considering they're not putting into the Sims either I find that unlikely. Bioware and WA are a hell of a lot closer to being partners. The heads of Bioware have high-level jobs at EA corporate.

Derangel

@Krackatoa or...: Fair enough point on multiplayer, but what constitutes "consolitis?"

It's just another made up word that defines the fear of change. DND 4.0 is too much like WoW. DND 3.0 & 3.5 were too much like Diablo. DND 2.0 has too many rules. I've heard all the complaints over the years. Video games are no different. At some point or age people dig their heels into the ground and complain that everything past that point sucks. It's shallow and meaningless.

Not to mention that anyone who cares that much, or has played the majority of the consistently quality Bioware games (NWN2 was made by Bioware's buddy and surviving corpse of Black Isle Games, Obsidian) will probably play it anyway.

Oh, and for the record, both NWN2 and KOTOR2 were offered to Bioware first by Atari, and when they turned them down, Atari asked who they should go to, and both times Bioware said ask Obsidian. Atari itself may be hit or miss, but they know who should be handling these things.

Paul_Is_Drunk

@Tuor_of_Gondolin: The Baldur's Gate Trilogy has been LITERALLY on every hard drive I've ever owned. There is nothing wrong with it on my 1920 x 1200 monitor. Full screen or window, though naturally I prefer full screen.

There are also graphics mods. Hell, there are mods for EVERYTHING. Bioware attracts a huge modding community, and they actively promote that. I think asking for a remake is lazy and selfish.

Paul_Is_Drunk

@Shin-san: It's up to EA. They're doing the same with the Sims 3 which like it or not is a massive franchise for them. They've learned their lesson now it seems.

-MasterDex-

@Shin-san: No they didn't. Its optional in SR7, not removed. Bioshock, Dark Althena, Alone in the Dark, and I believe Far Cry 2 all require the disc. SR7 is modular, in a way. It is up to the publisher which aspects of it to use. Activation, disc check, install limits, all on the publisher's head. They can pick what they want to use. SR7 is fully usable as only a disc check DRM.

Derangel

My favorite is still the tabloid newspaper you got with space quest 5 that had the coordinates of planets buried in the amazingly strange articles.

Anthony Noel

@BlisteringOrange: Actually, the only nice thing about recent versions of Sony SecuRom is that they cut out the disc check.

Shin-san

@RockyRan: Except for the older copy protection like Sony BMG.

Shin-san

@Sweetz: I wonder if it's up to Bioware or EA.

Shin-san

This is why I allow BioWare to use me like a cheap, tawdry date. They know just where it feels good.

@[www.widescreengamingforum.com]

@Hraesvelgr: People bitch to much in general. I enjoyed The Pitt. It wasn't the least bit buggy for me, at least no more than the rest of the game. As someone who has been playing PC games for ages, bugs come with the territory for games like Fallout 3. You simply can't fix everything.

Derangel

@Power_Wrist:
If companies stop producing peg legs, pirates will just break off a leg from a chair or whittle a tree branch to use as peg legs.

Damn determined pirates, take away one option and they just find another one two seconds later that works just as well.

TrjnRabbit

@Rctdaemon: Dude. you're impossible. EA is NOT stupid. You keep assuming they are. They are not going to outright lie to their customers with something like this.

Derangel

Well I would say that simply put Bioware told them they're not putting Securerom in and that was that. Unlike alot of developers that E.A. has absorbed if you recall the releases from a year or so ago when E.A was purchasing them, Bioware stated and E.A reiterated that Bioware was going to be left mostly alone by E.A. corporate, in essence making Bioware and E.A. more along the lines of distribution partners rather then Bioware becoming an internal studio of E.A.

Anthony Noel

@Rctdaemon: EA have stated before this that they're not using secuRom again. They really took a hit with the bad publicity that surrounded their SecuRom games.

-MasterDex-

@Rctdaemon: their

@Derangel: Why are people up in fucking arms all of a sudden when countless other companies talk about releasing DLC for their game before it's out? Bethesda did this numerous times, yet their buggy shit is praised constantly, even though it's short and overpriced.

@Valnen: No, they mean the PC Baldur's Gate.

@unangbangkay: Already denied on their forums, in the same topic that was created for this.

Derangel

@Derangel: Until they put their money where there mouth is with confirmation from power-users that have purchased it, I'm not going to be convinced.

@RuthLoose: They haven't released them.

This is going to be a day 1 purchase for me via STEAM. THANKS BIOWARE~!

chibixleon

So in other words you can just make an iso and boot it witha iso booter? guess they don't care to take measures for piracy? or is there something i'm not understanding

djricekcn

I've never understood how registering games online is overtly intrusive. As seen by recent Zeno Clash sales piracy is a huge problem for PC developers. To the point at which its damaging to the platform. So in this context is it a big deal type type in a 15 digit code...once? Also I don't see how people can complain about the limited number of registrations its usually cut down to what five, maybe three? That's one for your laptop and home PC and a back up of you change computers. I just don't see the problem. Personally, I'd rather sacrifice a little and keep developers making games for PC (and Mac). Then again I'm not a pirate who complains about security measures simply because it prevents him from ripping off games.

ctorrans

@CyberSkull: I'm not a fan of having the disc in the drive. My disc drive sounds like a dying wombat.

It'll likely be a Steam purchase for me.

@Derangel: Gamers never cared before?? I'm sorry, but I don't think you would see that many bugs during the SNES/SEGA and PS/64 eras.
They shouldn't limit the scope of their games at all. But to release a game which was so clearly bugged that it was blatant on a play through is stupid. Really if you have the bugs reported it shouldn't be hard to address them.

I've been PC gaming for a long time, and really I just steer clear and don't bother with games that I hear are so horribly buggy upon release. I'll wait until their problems are addressed, and if it takes so long I just won't bother with it at all. Why is it wrong for consumers to want a product they purchase to actually work and not continuously crash or atleast fail to function???
The fact that people let that shit go unpunished is absolutely stupid.

Really, there is no difference when you have the same content between DLC and an expansion. I just prefer it. As I said. I rather have one big reasonable add on to a game then a series of smaller ones. They can still sell it online and avoid retail. Depending upon the file size for DLC it can be god awful for me, because Australia has fking terrible internet, it will not only take a long time to download, but it can also eat up download limits.
Its a big reason I prefer a disc still because it means i can just pop it in, install and play within minutes.

Combine

@Rctdaemon: I put this in a way you can understand:

NO SECUROM

NO TAGES

NO STARFORCE

NO ACTIVATION

NO INSTALL LIMITS

ONLY DISC CHECK

LIKE COUNTLESS GAMES BEFORE, ONLY DISC CHECK!!!!!!

I'm pissed by EA too before, but this is like refusing to go on a vacation to Germany because 'of all the Nazis'.

syafiqjabar

@Eulogy: Nobody says consolitis anymore. It's the gaming forum equivalent of 'Dyn-O-Mite!'.

syafiqjabar

@RockyRan: Bring back the one where you have to read the included paper map to find clues to activate the game!

syafiqjabar

@Sweetz: Not only did they remove SecuROM from this game and The Sims 3, they also have de-authentication tools ready for download at the EA website, to remove the install limit. It's available for most recent EA games, I think.

syafiqjabar

@Str8_Jihadin: They already removed SecuROM from The Sims 3, so any future EA game is probably similar.

syafiqjabar

EA have stated before this that they're not using secuRom again. They really took a hit with the bad publicity that surrounded their SecuRom games.

@-MasterDex-: Sorry but that's BS! They said that before Burnout Paradise for PC was released and guess what Burnout Paradise has SecuRom activation. Although they actually printed out what kind of game protection it has right on the back in plain English which is a start I guess, unlike most companies just print out that the game has anti piracy protection that may interfere with virtual drives and cd/dvd copying.

More or less I think it's case by case depending on the game type and what kind of backlash the community of gamers they are focusing on. Either A: The people who'll buy it regardless (SIMS/Sports and casual group) or B: People who has been a faith-full follower of that genera and knows that anything volital that been included may loose the more audience than gain.

So ok Dragon Age will not have activation, fine but the note where they say paid DLC that's where it worries me why?

1: If it's GFWL it uses MS point and tied to your Live account and I have more then one Live account and guess what I can't use it on my other account unless I pay for it again (and no only I use my computer).

2:No paid DLC that doesn't use GFWL (that I've seen or used) still have to have some kind of activation or have to be online at all times to use it.

Neko_Tech

Am I dreaming? Wake up! Wake up!

This can't be real...

@TaggarT6 trips the light fantastic: Me too, as long as the game is good. Should be.

Thank w00t.
Now let's really hope it's a good game.

Vidunder

@Krackatoa or...: Has NWN3 been announced? I hadn't heard anything about it.

@syafiqjabar: Or the little code wheels, like in Tunnels of Armageddon.

@Neko_Tech: Or 3: Sell the DLC on the Bioware store the exact same way they have done for years with Neverwinter Nights.

I love how people seem to forget that Bioware has experience offering DLC. They've been doing it for years, since before GFWL. Since before MS coined the term. Since before it became popular.

EA rarely releases GFW titles. I don't expect Dragon Age to use it either.

Derangel

@Combine: Games were a hell of a lot simpler to make on those consoles, but really we're not talking about consoles here.

See, that is the thing. Some people actually stop and think. Some of use actually understand the complexities of developing these kinds of game. Huge open-world games are incredibly complex. They're also not exactly cheap. If they wanted to fix all the bugs they would have to spend billions of dollars and YEARS just working on them. That is not a feasible situation. In the past it has always been how well the game is supported that determines people's reaction to bugs. Bethesda, Bioware, Black Isle, Blizzard, all of them earned their praise not for releasing games that worked out of the box but for working to fix those games and treating their customers right. A great game can transcend technical issues. People these days just want to piss and moan the moment something doesn't go exactly the way they wanted it.

That is understandable. Maybe Bioware will follow Bethesda's lead and release these DLC out to retail.

Derangel

@Derangel: I never did use DLC on Bioware store. I just ended up buying the expansion when it hit retail.

Still I'm still weary of EA and I don't believe I'm alone on that.

[Below this isn't directed at you Derangel, just my rant in general]

I'm sure once we PC gamers let our guard down and think that EA no longer use DRM as a norm and people buy it without asking questions, they'll implement a [new] strict DRM of some sort.

Sorry but I've lost my faith in EA on PC since 2004-2005 and the takeovers really dropped my respect for them. Not even a two years they bought other companies and yet they can't even keep their core company from layoffs. Granted the economy is bad but hey instead of buying and butchering up that company they could've retain what they have.

EA has a lot to prove before I see them in a good light. EA isn't stupid now since they know not to mess with a previous company (BioWare) that has a mass followers since they heard a lot of grips with ME SecuRom. Yea EA owns them but what is EA doing on THEIR own games that makes it so we see them in a new light?

New I.P, SecuRom de-authentication tool? Sorry but new I.P is bound to happen and a program that user can reclaim their activation because the DRM doesn't work like it should and it should have been out in the first place (EA isn't alone on that department). Oh and I'd bet EA is doing no DRM thing (besides not tarnishing BioWare's image) early for of public image if congress deems DRM a violation of consumers rights (which I hope passes).

EA should have better customer service and treat them as such because they wanted and not because they want the spotlight to shine on them for doing the right thing for the moment.

Neko_Tech

@Derangel: I'm not saying they aren't expensive to make, and aren't large. What I am saying is that a lot of the bugs are blatantly fucking obvious. If the game crashes for so many damn people at the menu alone its ridiculous. Its inexcusable. A small beta would have shown a lot of the bugs they ship with. Which is why its stupid. It wouldn't cost Billions of dollars at alll, it would cost them the amount to actually have a QA department. At the moment it seems like they don't.

I have never had a Blizzard game that wouldn't work out of the Box like people had with Fallout 3 et al. Blizzard support their games really well, and have relatively few bugs upon release. Look at WoW, massive game, and it was still very playable upon release for everyone.

It seems like Fallout 3 can't even get post release support beyond money grabbing DLC while they lie content with the bug riddled game they are yet to patch and fix. If you want to keep defending a company for releasing a dodgy product so be it, its just stupid. People SHOULD complain and be outraged if a company sells them software which is buggy as hell, they are entitled to have it patched and fixed because thats the product they paid for.
The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that or support it is pretty disheartening.

Combine