EA Nintendo Group Waking Up To Wii

@Daniel Pizarro Sánchez: Nintendo supported the Wii far more than they had for the GameCube or N64 for the first two years of the console's existence. How can you possibly say that Nintendo didn't provide enough during the first years? That's just completely wrong.

pslong9

Another Wii thread, another thread that´s full of bullshit.
As an owner of the three consoles and two handhelds, i can say that neither console is perfect, but all of them can be real fun and interesting on its way.

For me, the main problem with the Wii isn´t if it´s hardcore or not, it´s how shovelware and the lack of attention from Nintendo n the first years hurt it. The Wii spent he first two years trying to prove itself as a "real" console for gaming, just because of the different approach Nintendo took in the marketing of it and that made it some kind of an outcast in the gaming community. Of course, it sells a lot, but the lack of love for the core gamers left a bad taste in mouth (at least on me) and Galaxy and others weren´t enough to make the Wii worthy of my time when i had a bunch of great titles in the HD consoles. Hell, even my 11 years old brother who happens to be a Nintendo fanboy, prefers the other two consoles intead of the Wii, and that´s something really alarming, since my brother is a kid who always preferred n64 and Gamecube over others.

Despite how much Wii fanboys disagree, the truth is the Wii lacks a lot in comparison to the other 2, and i can bet any owner of the 3 can say you the same (The Wii60 owners doesn´t count, since it´s fanboyish crap), at least this year ha something to look forward, or at least, Tastsunoko vs Capcom will be the game that will dust off my Wii at last. Although it´s sad i won´t be able to enjoy it on my HDTV, like KOF XII or SF4.

Daniel Pizarro Sánchez

@Islandkiwi: I'd say this argument is invalid now. Third-party sales on Wii have been picking up. It's a gradual thing, though. A lot of Wii owners do not buy a title on launch day so you don't see those major sales that PS3/box 360 efforts manage on day one.

@Anthony Noel: Indeed. Good point about Sega too.

Gray665

@Valkrin: Yes, i thought the same. It looks like all developers will turn into what Ubisoft is in terms of the Wii.

Daniel Pizarro Sánchez

@Gray665: You're welcome, I've always been annoyed at the response to "hardcore" gamers getting upset at Nintendo. They have every right to be upset, hell I'm upset.

There's this idea that hardcore gamers don't have any right to get upset at Nintendo because they abandoned them for Microsoft and Sony, but that's not true at all. It's the hardcore gamers who bought the N64, and who bought the Gamecube, even though there was a dearth of product on them,

Why? Because their "hardcore" gamers and Nintendo first party games are some of the best made. So hardcore gamers were the ones who kept Nintendo afloat during the downturn of the N64 and the debacle of the Gamecube era.

The only way you can argue that the "hardcore" abandoned Nintendo is if Zelda didn't sell, or if Mario and Metroid didn't sell. Well they do sell, millions of copies, and they sell to the "hardcore" why because the so called "casual" gamers don't buy them. I mean the 2 million people who bought Carnival Games on the wii are not the same ones who bought Zelda.

So who did? The "hardcore". They're not upset because they don't get a new Zelda ever 2 months, they're upset because they don't get anything at all for sometimes over a year.

Instead Nintendo releases Wii Fit, and Wii Music, and Animal Crossing, with major pushes behind them, which is fine but if I'm a "hardcore" gamer I've cut Nintendo alot of slack over the years, I accepted the limitations that being third and the poorest of the big 3 implied and accepted that I was only going to get my one awsome Nintendo game a year. I still bought your 300.00 system for it, because it was worth it.

But now you're the number one system, making massive amounts of money since you decided to not drop any money into r&d and simply released a gamecube in a new box and attached your old powerglove tech to it and called it innovative.

Now I want some loyalty back from Nintendo, make all the wii music's in the world, have Miyamito come out at E3 and talk about how his "toy" is better then any game, develop all the mini games you want but damn it drop some of that money into development of new games and franchises. Open new internal development studios, actually drop some ad money behind some games that appeal to the "hardcore" gamers.

The "hardcore" are upset because they kept Nintendo afloat through the bad times of the N64 and Gamecube and now they're being jettisoned. And for some reason pointing this out usually results in heaps of scorn, and I don't get why. I mean when Sega releases some crap awful game and everyone old enough to remember them in their glory days rides in and slags on them for dumbing down sonic or making some horrible Mario Sonic Olympics minigame collection, no one comes along and defends sega by saying, well what are you complaining about, their trying to grow the market by appealing to a wider casual audience.

Anthony Noel

@WontonTiger: Once the Wii settles down, Nintendo better pump out something ingenious, as they won't have people lining up to buy their next system.

Just like the PS2...

The Wii isn't horrible, however aside from the waggle "innovation," Nintendo isn't doing anything new, nothing at all.

So, aside from a major change and innovation that has dramatically changed the gaming landscape, Nintendo isn't doing anything new. Brilliant.

pslong9

Fanboys can say whatever they want but the BOTTOM LINE IS Nintendo is making huge profits on their one focus VIDEOGAMES and Sony and Microsoft have HOBBIES that they can afford to throw money at.

To fairly compare success you need to do it from a MONEY stand point.

Dreamcast might have been the best system ever but SEGA didn't have a TV division to live off of when they lost $50 on every system sold (for example)

Joe Lachiana

@mlubczyn:

Didn't they (sorta) do that, and failed?

paulrenzo

@mitch_93:

Four words: get used to it.

And those games don't mean squat to them, because they don't run in 720p/lacks "mature" plot/lacks violence and sex/on the Wii/all of the above.

paulrenzo

@jamesjohnson01: How about just waiting to buy what appeals to you rather than claiming
"I swear, if I don't see something appealing soon, I'll never buy anything from them again!"

I mean, you've already qualified that statement. "Except, of course game x and y." Because those games appeal to you. So Nintendo didn't show you anything you wanted last year. Big deal. I didn't see anything either. I didn't want Wii Music. I gave Animal Crossing a try at least, and found it somewhat entertaining. But I'll just wait. I bought Punch-out, that's fun. I'll buy a few other things this year.

And if Nintendo doesn't "blow my pants off" this year at E3, again, so what? I've got a few third party games to look forward to as well as some WiiWare games. More will come.

DakranII

@Anthony Noel: "They refused to switch to a shared and common media, the cd-rom, because they did not want to lose the huge revenue stream that it generated from manufacturing carts. That's right all those carts for the NES, SNES, and N64, they were made by Nintendo and sold to developers at a profit."

Sounds like someone else I know. Sony put expensive Blu-Ray tech in their PS3 in hopes that it would become the defacto media for games and movies, and thus, earn them more money. That's right, all those Blu-Ray games? Earn Sony money and make them a profit.

DakranII

@jamesjohnson01:

You sir I like.

paulrenzo

@Anthony Noel:

This is so much better than the JamesJohnson01 posting. I didn't have the time to respond to his post, however there were so many glaring inaccuracies that people seemed to ignore.

Too many people post "+1, best post of the year," then contribute nothing. Nintendo blew many opportunities, and even when supported, they took advantage of their supporters.

Once the Wii settles down, Nintendo better pump out something ingenious, as they won't have people lining up to buy their next system. In 90% of cases, I've seen what happens with the Wii...

1) Intense joy and interest in a new and interesting console.

2) Weeks or months of games, good gaming, good environment for family gaming.

3) After 2-6 months, the system doesn't get used. Purchaser feels betrayed after buying 4 wiimotes and nunchuks, which could make it more expensive than the PS3 or 360.

The Wii isn't horrible, however aside from the waggle "innovation," Nintendo isn't doing anything new, nothing at all.

@Anthony Noel: Nintendo didn't "punish" publishers during the Super NES era, like they threatened to do during the NES era. Maybe you missed the news about the lawsuit against Nintendo in the early 90s about they monopolistic practices. That's why games came out on the Snes and Genesis at the same time.

As for Nintendo "banning" Square from the N64, it's more like Square not wanting to be restricted by the limitation of the cartridge size, as well as the cost of cartridges, and deciding to publish games on the Playstation instead. After the success of Final Fantasy VII, you don't think Nintendo would have lifted the "ban"? Please, man.

Jimbotron

@Antiterra:
Miss Grammar, shouldn't that be "Nazi" instead of "nazi" (sic)?

SageView

@mlubczyn: Your wish is Sony and M$'s command... Now that they are both jumping on the "fad" of motion control...
Ah, the irony.

SageView

@Anthony Noel: Dude...thank you. Another thing I'd like to point out is that the forum post (which I have seen at least 5 times now on different occasions) compares the PS1 to the Wii and says it brought in non-games, which is true, but UNLIKE the Wii it also was pushing the envelope graphically. Before PS1 there were not all that many 3D console games. Sure there was Saturn but the PS1 had much more polygon pushing power. It also used CD-Roms which was not the norm at the time. The PS1 was cutting edge graphically until the Dreamcast came along. The Wii has never been cutting edge with the exception of the controller and even that is debatable.

Gray665

@engagequadlaser: Here here!

Jimbotron

@Skyline7284: Take your Troll comment and try and find me under a bridge...any bridge. Your sensitivity level is off the charts.

You want to point out a few games that sold well, fine. But they're the exceptions. And when you're talking about an install base of 50+ million, selling 2-3 million, well...it's good, but compared to Nintendo's game sales numbers I'd hardly call it stellar.

The Wii is todays version of those Tiger pocket arcade games. People buy the Wii, they play the game that comes with it. If they decide to buy another game, it's going to be Wii Play. If they buy a 3rd game, it's Wii Fit or Mario Kart.

I'm not deriding the console, it's a huge success for Nintendo. And I understand EA wanting to get a slice of the 50+ million user base...if they can get golf and tennis playing down, they'll make a lot of wonga. All I'm saying is it's a steep climb, and the shining city at the top of that hill may not be all that shiny.

Islandkiwi

@engagequadlaser: I would agree.

tomjonjon

@jamesjohnson01:

Alright lets respond to some of the overwhelming pro Nintendo stuff in this post and get back to a little reality.

This post claims that the "hardcore" gamer gave nintendo the finger back in the N64 days, sorry but no, Nintendo gave gamers the finger back in the N64 days, and not because they failed to produce quality games, Nintendo almost always produces quality games. They lost that generation because they failed to secure quality third party games to hold gamers over between the droughts of first party software. And this was directly Nintendo's fault.

They refused to switch to a shared and common media, the cd-rom, because they did not want to lose the huge revenue stream that it generated from manufacturing carts. That's right all those carts for the NES, SNES, and N64, they were made by Nintendo and sold to developers at a profit.

They also attempted to continue their draconian licensing practices in which if a third party developed games for a competitors system Nintendo would "punish them" just as they did in the NES and SNES days. Just look at the reaction to Square making games for the playstation, they banned Square from the platform. Hell their attempts to strong arm Sony and subsequent actions in relation to Sony created the playstation.

The N64 was a failure because Nintendo acted like it was still 1987 through 90, when they were the unassailed leader of the market and could dictate terms to 3rd party developers. Well those developers had enough and left, they produced their games on a larger and universal format that was dirt cheap in comparison to carts.

So why should I buy an N64, when I'll get one fantastic game a year out of Nintendo and then it'll collect dust for the remainder of the year. That's not gamers flipping off Nintendo, that's Nintendo screwing up and losing gamers due to the inability to provide quality product at a steady rate.

And even after the beating they took on the N64 they still didn't learn their lesson and along comes the Gamecube, again with a proprietary storage format that only Nintendo manufactures and again they want developers to pay extra for the privilege of using Nintendo's format. And again they refused to repair their relationships with third party publishers.

The failure of the Gamecube has little to do with gamers "flipping" off Nintendo. Hell, the Gamecube had a very strong launch, and sold quite well initially. And then it didn't. Why, because again they had the same problem as the N64, without strong 3rd party support to supply quality games between first party releases the Gamecube again became a system you hauled out once a year to play Nintendo's game and then it sucked dust for the rest of the year.

The poster says that "because the "expanded" audience had picked up a Playstation brand the generation before, and just like me buying a box of Golden Grahams every trip to the grocery store, everyone kept with the brand." as if brand loyalty explains the gamecube's failure, rather then the fact that the PS2 had a vastly larger library of quality games that released at a much more consistent schedule.

If brand loyalty was such a strong force then the PS3 should be the number one system, after all if it was simple brand loyalty to the PSone then the PS2, the most successful console in history should have launched the PS3 into the stratosphere, but the PS3 languishes in 3rd place.

And then along comes the wii. Again, they shaft third party developers, this time it's not just a propitiatory storage format, now if you want to release a game on our system, you can't even port them, you have to make us an entirely new version.

That's right unlike the previous consoles in which you could make a game that ran roughly the same on every console, we've decided to make a console that cannot run a game developed for the other two, so now you have to add the extra development cost of an entire new version of a game.

So what happens? Well shock of shocks, 3rd party developers don't really want to do this since it adds 15 to 20 million dollars to development cost to get a triple a title released onto the wii, so the wii gets shoddy ports and little support so again quality games are left up to first party development. And again the wii gets taken out once a year and then is blanketed in dust for the rest of it.

The post says Nintendo is giving the hardcore exactly what they want, a new Zelda, a new Mario, a new smash brothers, etc. Well, that's not what the "Hardcore" want. They want good games available to them on a consistent and steady schedule. The reason that the names Zelda, Mario and Metroid come up so often is because, guess what, for the past 3 console generations if you bought a nintendo console, then that's pretty much all you got, a quality first party title every year, and then nothing.

So gamers lose interest in Nintendo consoles and all of a sudden their flipping off and abandoning Nintendo, I'm sorry but no, Nintendo lost those customers all on their own.

Anthony Noel

@Islandkiwi: Let me make sure I understand this progression...

Article: "Wii is not a fad."
Response: "Wrong. It's not a fad."

Followed by a segue into a completely unrelated Wii-bash. (IE: Only first party titles sell)

A well disguised troll attempt, but a troll attempt nonetheless.

I just wish Nintendo made the Wii powerful enough for 3rd parties to be able to develop their 360/PS3/PC?Wii games without much hazzle.

I would have preferred GTA IV, MGS IV, Call of Duty 4, Ninja Gaiden II, Devil May Cry 4, Resident Evil 5, et cetera on the Wii.

I just feel that Nintendo actively made sure that Nintendo had a competitive advantage over third parties on the Wii.

mlubczyn

I believe the problem with the Wii's game library is that you can't simply port games from another system.

The reason why Xbox360 and PS3 games often look very, very similar is that these days, they're for the most part developed using standard libraries and engines (Unreal Engine, anyone?). Developing games for the Wii means that you are forced to focus less on eye candy and more on game mechanics, usability and - yes - the user interface (aka "the waggle"). It took some time, learnng and - as EA's example shows - dedicated teams to take advantage of the Wii's features.

I'm fairly impressed with recent Wii releases and I have high hopes for things to come, now that game designers and developers are familiar with the Wii's unique features.

sepinho

Well if Bethesda can work on a Wii game. I guess EA could boost it's support for the Wii.

nightwheel

Hardcore gamers are most certainly a fad.

AbnerOtter

@subnet6: Nintendo blew their chance to get 3rd parties on board this generation I mean. They should have gotten their dev kits to the 3rd parties before Sony and Microsoft so that Publishers would not have invested millions and millions of dollars into HD development making Wii development impossible.

Think about it, most Wii games are still developed on modified Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 tech. Why? Because companies invested millions of dollars into PS3/360/PC tech that they thought was going to be compatible with Wii. It wasn't and so Nintendo 3rd parties are screwed, again.

Those 360/PS3/PC tools are sunk costs now, so 3rd parties are not going to back out.

mlubczyn

@jamesjohnson01: Comment of the 'generation'.

@kubevubin: "True gamers"? Get over yourself.

@mitch_93:

That's a crappy lits.

MadWorld sucks ass compared to anything out on the 360/PS3 or even PS2.

The Conduit is 90s FPS retread garbage.

Silent Hill Shattered Memories looks like Jap crap that I've never play.

Resident Evil Darkside Chronicles is a bloody rail shooter. An FPS for dummies and lazy people. That crap went out with the Arcades and the Dreamcast.

All those others you listed are yet to be announced and will probably come out in 2010 if not 2011. Hell if I'll wait that long.

mlubczyn

@pslong9: The hate coems from the fact that their beloved, so-called "hardcore" system, is getting it's ass handed to it by an "underpowered", "casual" console. They can't see to comprehend that people buy a console for the games they find engaging and the games THEY will have fun playing, and not for the eye candy or polygon count.

Jimbotron

I still remember the good old days: EA announcing it would radically decrease the amount of games it would release on ye olde Gamecube...

Ah, I miss those times.

@kubevubin: Well, Sega always does what Nintendont....

@Rebochan: Yet I don't hear these people whining about Metal Gear Solid being milked, or GTV, or Gears of War, or Fallout, or Bioshock, or God of War any other game that is getting a sequel in the near future. They just keep askign for more. Hypocrite morons.

Jimbotron

@jamesjohnson01: "Hardcore" gamers don't matter. But the traditional gamers do. But for Nintendo, there are enough new comers that even traditional gamers boycotting wouldn't affect them as much as it would Sony of MS.

Jimbotron

@supo: Maybe for close-minded people, but I have had mine for a year and a half and I still use it all the time. More than my 360. I guess you have to like more than violent first person shooters and so-called" serious", dark, brooding games to enjoy the Wii. But if you like a wide variety of games that are fun, the Wii is great.

Jimbotron

@Jean-François L'Her: And it would be really easy to put out a long list of good Wii games on it that are already out.

pslong9

@Mommar: It's good then that we've seen just how little the hardcore actually matter when it comes to success. Fuck the hardcore, they're useless.

engagequadlaser

@supo: prove it.

@Bum_Trumpet: As a PS3 user I know I sure did. But then my list had real games in it.

Jean-François L'Her

@jamesjohnson01: Bravo. Bra-fucking-vo.

engagequadlaser

@jamesjohnson01: ...I am not 22...so my math is terrible. LOL

@Valnen: Maybe it has to do with age.

It's like when I remember Disney movies I watched as a child and the memory is filled with "magic" and utter bliss.

Then I watch the movie again 15 years later and the movies, outside of their nostalgia, can't seem to captivate me like when I was, oh, 7 years old.

@Valnen: That's fine. It's just really tough for some people to realize that gaming doesn't revolve around them and that they aren't the entire market. There are lots of people out there who like games like Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Street Fighter, God / Gears of War, etc. There are also lots of people out there who like games like Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, de Blob, Little King's Story, etc. There's room in the gaming world for everyone, and that's what Nintendo is really striving for, though they are struggling with the market that you see yourself in.

So some people feel like the Wii doesn't have anything to offer them. So what? It doesn't make it a bad system, or a fad, or anything. It just doesn't appeal to you, and that's fine. The games you're interested in are still going to be developed. Your market is still going to be served. Why is it such a problem for people that other markets are catered to? I really don't understand where the hate is coming from.

pslong9

@jamesjohnson01: Beauty. I get a kick out of people with Halo avatars acting like they own gaming, as if they didn't just jump on the bandwagon the same way the new guys are.

The only thing that post is missing is the people that simultaneously complain that Nintendo just milks its old franchises while complaining about whatever Nintendo franchise they like not getting another entry.

@mitch_93: Hey a euro comrad! Not from UK either ^^. Also who needs to criticise Wii when faced with such lukewarm enthusiasm...

Jean-François L'Her

@Jimbotron:

I disagree. Well if you consider last-gen, which had some awesome platformers.

Like I said it'll hurt them?

Hardcore gamers could boycott Nintendo entirely and they'd still make revenue.

@Jimbotron: Because after a couple months of use, it sits in the closet collecting dust.

supo

@jamesjohnson01: I don't want Smash Bros, Mario, or Zelda. I want games like Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, Street Fighter, or God of War. Nintendo doesn't offer games like that. So I don't buy Nintendo products. Simple as that.

Don't get me wrong, I liked their games growing up. But times change. And besides, the newer Zelda, Mario games just don't seem to have the same "magic" the old ones did. I have yet to play a Zelda game I like more than a link to the past.

Valnen

@kobeashi: How so? Seems a bit long for a fad.

Jimbotron

@Jean-François L'Her: The PS3 is a fas. Oh, wait. It's not popular enough to even be a fad.

Jimbotron

@jamesjohnson01: It's not about not letting go of the past, it's about recognizing excellent games, regardless of when they were made. Super Mario World for the Super NES can still wipe the floor with almost any current platforming game on any of the three consoles.

And I am sure Nintendo won't even notice you not buying their stuff. 1 person out of 40+ million people. Yeah, that will really hurt them.

Jimbotron

@Billkwando bought his tickets for Hyde's US tour: i hate to say it as i am a ps3 owner but i've seen plenty of fanboys posting lists when the 360 fanboys used the argument, "there are no good games on the ps3."

@duckncover: i don't know how many others will know the reference but you are spot on. Donavon before the coke days i might add.

@jamesjohnson01: Whoever posted that on a forum is the most brilliant human being to ever use the Internet, World Wide Web, or forum. Absolutely fantastic. Indeed, fuck you whiners.

Jimbotron

@jamesjohnson01:
This hit the nail on the head right here. A lot of people from the Playstation generation are acting as if the Wii is the first time this has happened. Sure, the internet wasn't in such widespread use either, so this is the first time so much collective whining has been concentrated in an instantly accessible form.

Honestly, the meat of the issue is that there's this rift between perceived "gamers" and the new people getting into the industry. Like Scott Ransoomair states in his webcomic, we saved the fucking princess. We collected the powerups, the rings, the coins, we broke our fingers trying to combo HK-LK-hadoken-shoryuken. We also dreamed of the day that other people would understand this, and they'd find the same joy we did in doing the same.

Unfortunately the inverse of this has happened. Other people are getting into gaming, but it's not perceived as the "right" kind of gaming. And the industry always follows the people with the most dollars. The game has changed.

The fans have not changed. This drives them fucking nuts. So naturally when they see companies they knew and love "dumping" them for other people it's going to garner some amount of Fan Fury. It's the equivalent to learning how to ride a bike and then seeing new bikes getting made with extra wheels, a tiny little engine, and in glowy colors that seat four people at a time. Not to mention the new bikes control with steering wheels instead of handlebars.

@jamesjohnson01: Wow... I am going to nominate that.. I don't care if it's from a forum somewhere, more people just need to see it.

Consider yourselves rebutted.

@jamesjohnson01: Fantastic post.

@mitch_93: Just because a game gets an M rating for the ESRB does not mean it is a game for the core audience. I know most gamers are not waiting in line to buy rail shooters these days and obviously no one was really waiting on Madworld either.

@Maikel De Bakker: Mirrors Edge takes very precise controls. It is frustrating enough on PS3/360. I would hate to see it with motion controls on Wii.

@Billkwando bought his tickets for Hyde's US tour: Good point. But at least there are some of us who still think Nintendo has a chance to turn around and a good 250 euros weren't spent wastefully.

mitch_93

@mlubczyn:
Nintendo blew it? lol..

I'll post what someone said on a forum

"The funny thing about this thread is that people don't realize that what Nintendo is doing now is exactly what Sony started doing in 1995. Sony marketed the Playstation to people who didn't play video games, they marketed the Playstation like one would market the next summer blockbuster, trying to bring in the wider audience instead of the typical pubescant boys that dominated as the videogame demographic for so long.

You know why most people don't bother to think about that? Because you fuckers are that expanded audience. YOU were the casuals of the 90s, because Sony marketed the Playstation to your soft easily manipulated grey matter, becoming attracted to a Playstation the same way you were to cereal brands with cool decoder rings inside.

Now you're pissed off when the same thing is happening to you. Nintendo looking beyond you and directly at the crowd behind you. Boohoo, you were the stupid fuckers "ruining gaming" in the 90s, deal with it, because by next generation all of those casuals are going to be regular gamers, and you'll be thankful that suddenly gaming isn't some nerdy stigma and that everyone is fucking doing it.

As for Nintendo giving the finger to the hardcore, how about thinking back to when the hardcore gave the finger to Nintendo? Some of the greatest and ground-breaking games of all time were on the Nintendo 64, and what did Nintendo get that generation? Last place. Last place by a margin of 70 million units, to the Playstation and their new "expanded audience". No one was boohooing for Nintendo when they were giving you exactly what you wanted and you simply weren't buying it.

Nintendo came back the next generation swinging as well, an impressive launch library, a Mario, a Zelda, a new face to Metroid, Smash Brothers, all in the first year or so of the console! What'd they get again? Third place once more. Why? because the "expanded" audience had picked up a Playstation brand the generation before, and just like me buying a box of Golden Grahams every trip to the grocery store, everyone kept with the brand.

So you know what, fuck you with Nintendo "abandoning" you. Despite the fact that the "expanded' audience is a big part of Nintendo now, what did they still give you? A Mario, a Zelda, a new Metroid, Smash Brothers, all within the first year or so of the console. Nintendo is giving the hardcore exactly what they ask for and what they've always tried to deliver, and as soon as you get them what is everyone asking of Nintendo? "Whens there gonna be a new Mario?", "Wheres the next Zelda already!", "Man, can't they do another Smash Bros?".

If Nintendo is abandoning anyone, it's the most fucking courteous abandonment I've ever seen, given to the most ungrateful lot that completely don't deserve it."

@mitch_93: Did someone post yet ANOTHER list?

Lists are so 2008.

The fact that you even need a list goes to show how poorly your console is fairing. How often do you see a 360 or PS3 person post a list?

They don't need to, because it's a given that they have a stable of great games, both current & upcoming.

Confirmed: "Wii List Online", exclusively for Nintendo Wii!

@Islandkiwi: Wii Carnival Games has sold very well for being a 3rd party game. Big Beach Sports has been selling well overseas as well.

I wish they stopped using "Wii" without an article, as though it were some kind of metaphysical entity. It's bad enough when Nintendo do it, I wish 3rd parties stopped following the lead of whatever flack came up with this brilliant idea.
For fuck's sake, the Wii is an object, a plastic box crammed with circuitry, like every other console. It's not a mysterious lifeform or an deep ontological concept...

/grammar nazi

@Jean-François L'Her: Zero was all they had to invest after the Game Cube.. the Wii was the biggest gamble Nintendo ever did.. and it worked better than everyone could expect.

@Jean-François L'Her: The only ones trying to argue it's a fad are the people who hate it.

Also, from the article: "The Wii isn't a fad."

@mlubczyn: Cause the Wii version plays better.. after playing Metroid Prime 3, I can't go back to playing an FPS with 2 sticks.. tried to play Resistance on a friend's PS3 and gave up after 15 minutes.

The Wii is most certainly a fad.

kobeashi

@mlubczyn: "Nintendo had their chance and they blew it. "

Nominated for funniest comment of the day.

Nintendo blew it? Wow, what world have you been living in? They took their company form the edge of death to industry leader in 2 years. They only thing they blew was getting lip service from a hardcore that had already abandoned them 10 years ago.

Anyway, it's interesting to hear EA saying the industry has turned a corner. We're definitely seeing more third party development. Let's hope it results in more good games well made for the platform. I enjoy all 3 consoles and motion controls are fantastic when done well.

I hope EA does find some sort of success on the Wii. EA was pretty good about bringing out some original IPs last year and hopefully some Wii cash could fund more.

Put your B teams on some simple cutesy party games and take all the profits to fund new epic PS3 and 360 titles.

thatcreepyguy

@mitch_93: "Ah... Err.... erm... uh... you know, A game's comming. Oh, and there are other games unannounced comming too. AND add to that, well... anyway A Bunch of hypothetical games!!" Does not count as a 2009 lineup. Sorry.

Jean-François L'Her

@cabjf: I agree wholeheartedly. It's already starting to happen.

@TheOriginalEd: Yeah, it's just the waggle alone. Or it could also include the cost of games, or price (at least compared to the PS3), or Nintendo software (that alone will sell a system).

As for third party issues, the Wii is flooded by crap, making good games harder to find. Also, as this post points out, even EA is only just admitting that the Wii should be taken seriously as a platform. I think over the next year or so we'll see a third party awakening on the Wii. There will still be plenty of crap, but there will be more good third party titles.

cabjf

I did not like the wii, to the extent that I sold it right away. Gamers know the feeling, developpers know the feeling. It goes "meh". And then "DUH". And then *HATE* for some. Developpers in America have "moved on" to other systems, and feel obliged to make games for the Wii because it's number 1 saleswise. The simple fact that one needs to argue wether it's a fad or not proves how unattractive it is. How many times do we have to hear that "this time we'll try and make the Wii not suck"? Blame Nintendo for the Zero Investment, Maximum Profit" approach.

Jean-François L'Her

@Islandkiwi: Have you not seen world of Goo? Boom Blox? Guitar Hero 3 or World Tour? Rock Band?

Guitar Hero actually sold best on Wii.

Nobody likes a troll.

@undefined: Too late. I owned my Wii for over a year and I got a PS3 a year later due to disgust. Now, why should I get the Wii version of a cross-platform game over the PS3 version? I can't think of any.

Nintendo had their chance and they blew it.

mlubczyn

Wow Kotaku is bunch of negative nelly anti wii people in one big area isn't it! Seriously now I can see where they are coming from. 2009 is this new energy they are talking about. I mean let me list you everything from this year or announced this year which makes this look true:
Madworld
Conduit
Silent Hill
Resident evil darkside
A mature game known only to IGN
A core Wii title coming in
A bunch of 3rd party good games
2 High Voltage Games are going to be announced
Besthesda of all people jumping onto the wii
Dead Space extraction

Sure I might sound like a nut but the core fans who have stuck by Nintendo are finally going to get the proper treatment they should have had from the start from 2009 and onwards until the next console. I actually think the shovelware news this year is very sparce.

mitch_93

@Islandkiwi: It's hard to ignore Wii's install base. What I feel most developers need to do to appeal to true gamers is ditch all of the motion controls (aside from maybe in FPS games), simply requiring support for either the Classic Controller or the Wii Remote simply held NES-style.

Problem is, yes, mostly Nintendo stuff sells, and it pisses me off. As a huge Genesis, Saturn and Dreamcast fan, most of my collection tended to be comprised of third-party games. Also, I have a ton of games that're made by Sega, but they had a lot more variety to them. Seriously, just count the number of individual series that Sega had from console to console. You won't find that with Nintendo.

Thing is, Nintendo fans like a lot of the same, and many of them aren't willing to try out original IP's. Really, Nintendo consoles' worse enemies have always been its own fans since the N64 days.

@TheOriginalEd: Which to me really isn't all that fun unless you're playing games that take advantage of it well (like Zack and Wiki or WarioWare), and it's not like anyone actually makes those kinds of games, nor would such games (like Zack and Wiki or WarioWare) be known for anything outside their quirky mechanics.

I'd rather take a gorgeous, jaw-dropping 1080p Zelda game with surround sound and a comfortable game-pad over Twilight Princess with "WAGGLE THE WII-REMOTE LIKE A MARACA TO SWING THE SWORD" mechanics.

Okami's waggle mechanics are an example of an incredible game ruined by motion sensing, IMO. I bought it for Wii hoping the 16:9/480p would be a better choice, but I wish I'd gotten the PS2 version. After 30 minutes of playing and having to violently shake the Wii Remote for Amaterasu to attack at all for every little pot and vase, I turned it off and haven't touched it since. The controls ruined it for me. The fact you have to be within 3 feet of the sensor bar to draw something as well is irritating. It means I can't play this game in my bed like would have with a wireless Sixaxis.

To be honest I'd rather keep waggle completely out of my games, and rather have them look and sound amazing.

@Mommar: And the 'hardcore' players will come right back when the right games are released. Face it, the 'hardcore' like to moan about the lack of games on the Wii, but you know that they'll come right back when the next Zelda is released if it is even remotely good.

Besides, with the sales as large as they are, I don't think Nintendo has noticed anyone leaving. It's hard to wield great influence when you are in the minority.

Cururu

Translation: We just realized we can get away with low quality games on the DS and Wii and still have them sell. This is a golden opportunity for EA to make even more cash with even less development effort.

Valkrin

Jason Donovan in wakes up shocker!

duckncover

@Islandkiwi: ROCK BAND.

@Islandkiwi: Theres just so much more that can be done with the other consoles as well in terms of processing power, storage, etc. When you boil it down to just MAKING the games, all the wii has over the competition is waggle.

TheOriginalEd

@jamesjohnson01: Yes, I'm a man of conflicting opinions and contradictions.

Uh, it is a fad. Every console is a fad. Every console meets its end at some point (except for the retro gamers who refuse to let the past go and think blocky pixels that go "doot-doot" are the best games ever made -_-)

I have a Wii and if Nintendo doesn't blow my pants off this E3, that'll be the final straw in the scarecrow for me.

I'll keep my Wii for Brawl but I won't buy anything Nintendo related ever again >:(

Except for Pokemon HeartGold and SoulSilver.

Well it is about time we will see some good games on it soon.. but yeah altough the Wii has reached a lot of new players it also lost a lot of the old ones. time to combine them boath again? dubbeling the marked share!

EA might just have what it takes.. Burnout Wii? Mirrors Edge Wii? etc etc

Maikel De Bakker

Too bad it seems like all of the "hardcore" gamers have decided to move on while they were taking their sweet time.

Mommar

Wrong. It may not be a fad, but it is clear that success on the Wii remains an insular event. If it is Nintendo software, it will sell. Outside developers, it will not.

I know it looks like there' a wonderful business opportunity there, but aside from the first Rayman game, I haven't seen it.

Islandkiwi

@skitch: yes the lack of an edit function sucks, I fail to see how I'm obscene, I merely showcased FunKrusher's after all he was the one who told me how much I love to eat dick.

Anthony Noel

@Skitch: Lack of edit function sucks, but before you correct me, the statement should read "Glad to see you mix poorly laced, overly verbose points, with needless and pointless obscene language."

I wish I could say I care more, but with people like you, I really don't. Congrats on wasting a lot of your time writing that, though.

@Anthony Noel: Glad to see you mix of poorly laced, overly verbose points, with needless and pointless obscene language.

Oh, wait.

@Anthony Noel:

I tried to re-read your epic novel of a post. But outside of a few well thought out internet disses. The fact that you seemed to say that I argued your points or blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I couldn't get into it.

You win, I don't care nearly as much as you do to prove myself or points right. Definitely not as much as you do to write a college thesis and come up with great insults.

That shit is elementary, AND MY MIND STATE IS COLLEGE

Nice insults though, sleep better at night knowing that you got me.
/sarcasm

@funcrusher: give me a sec here I'll be done with this delicious dick in a second, then I can argue with you. Yummmmm dick. Emmmm it's so gooddddddd. God I love me some dick in the afternoon.

Done.

Let's go point by point.

Lets first discontout the made up words. (Sorry hard to resist)

First lets discount my so called anti Nintendo stance. I like Nintendo, a couple of other responders as well as yourself seem to miss the parts where I praise them as one of the greatest developers in history (@Leanid, your right they are one company, put my argument was that they should be pumping that money into new development studios to produce more games, as of right now, it doesn't appear that they are.) The whole crux of my argument is that "hardcore" gamers have spent a decade and a half buying Nintendo hardware simply to play Nintendo games. I love Nintendo and I more then likely always will, but it increasingly looks like Nintendo doesn't love me anymore.

Your first paragraph is interesting simply because you seem to think you're arguing with me yet you are actually simply restating my exact argument. YES OF COURSE IT'S ABOUT THE MONEY. And of course if third party developers made more money on the N64 they would have published and developed for it and they would have put up with Nintendo's policies and the extra cost of purchasing carts from Nintendo, BECAUSE THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID ON THE NES.

My point was that with the expansion of the market and access to cheaper media that developers could buy on their own through their own set deals allowed third parties to walk from Nintendo and to dictate terms to them rather then the other way, and Nintendo failed to respond to the new market reality of not being the defacto console.

The next paragraph is also interesting because this time your arguing a point I never even made. I never argued that brand loyalty was the reason PS3 is in third. In fact I argued the opposite, that if loyalty to the playstation brand was a primary contributing factor to the failing of the Gamecube as the forum post I was responding too implied then by that logic the PS3 as the continuation of said brand should be crushing every other console as the playstation brand grew to enormous size with the PS2 generation. I think you point out the failings of the PS3 quite succinctly.

The third paragraph, again interesting as I did not say anything about development cycles for consoles outside of the fact that the Wii is roughly half way through it's life cycle, which it is, three years in on a five to seven console life cycle. I'm not sure what narrow mindedness I displayed by pointing that out.

I suppose I could argue that Nintendo didn't really chose the form of the Wii so much as it was forced upon them, as they couldn't really afford the development and production of a cutting edge console after the beating their coffers took after the Gamecube, which just to remind people they had to drop to 99.99 because they couldn't get them out of their warehouses. But that's just conjuncture on my part. Also I don't have a problem with the wii being "underpowered", (see what I did there, I put underpowered in quotes just like I do "hardcore" and "casual" gamers, see when you do that in prose it implies an ironic use of the term, meaning that you don't necessarily agree with the general definition of the word. That should tell you something about what I think of "hardcore" and "casual" gamers) I think it does exactly what Nintendo needs it to do and strong art direction can compensate for a lack of technical prowess 9 times out of ten. (also Sony didn't use C.D's because they "were in on that media", they did it because the nascent guts of the psone were the CD add on for the SNES.)

Next up, hey look you're still not arguing any of my points. Yes, it's a fact that wii development is, on average, cheaper then 360 or PS3 development. I never said it wasn't.

What I said was that Nintendo had once again done damage to their relationship with third party developers by adding that development cost onto the pre-existing cost of developing games for the 360 and PS3. I used the 15 to 20 million number since that was the rough cost of developing a triple a title on the previous generation of consoles. Now that cost has to be added to the 30 to 40 million cost of developing a triple a title on the 360 and PS3 as any engine and assets developed for those platforms cannot for the most part, be used for a wii version, requiring an entirely different game having to be made to have a multi platform release across all three platforms. (another side note, yes a triple a title still has to sell a "gazillion" copies to turn a profit even on the wii, 15 to 20 million for development plus advertising costs of roughly 5 million means that a triple a wii game still needs to sell 1 million plus to break even.)

Actually yes, Nintendo lost gamers, at least according to you they did. According to you they lost the horde of hardcore gamers that populate the internet. Well a horde of something implies an overwhelmingly large amount of that thing, so according to you Nintendo's lost a huge amount of gamers. According to me, Nintendo is in danger of losing gamers, not that they've already lost them. Also the argument that there are a "ton" of quality non Nintendo games is rather hyperbolic. There are some, but not nearly enough for a system that has the largest installed base and as you yourself pointed out the lowest cost of development.

And we come at last to the last paragraph, I'm not sure what truth the hardcore type is, but it seems profound. Also this sector of narrow minded seems dangerous I believe this sector should be avoided at all costs. As for Zack and Wiki I hear it's a great game I'm glad you like it but it's something of a strawman argument, I mean anyone can take the name of a unique but under performing game and toss it out to prove your, what? more open minded then me, well go play Psychonauts and unlock all of Raz's memories. Or go play Beyond Good and Evil and take photos of all the wildlife. Or go play Zork and mess with a grue. Or go play Manic Mansion 2 and stick a hamster in the microwave oven. See I can do it too. (on a final side note, although you seem something of a twit, I'll tell you that if you like Zack and Wiki and have a P.C you should download dosbox and hunt down Goblins, Gobliins, and Gobliiins. Outstanding series of puzzle adventure games that I think you'll like if you like the aforementioned Zack and Wiki)

Well I guess I'm done, now I guess I've got to get back to my yummy dick.

Anthony Noel

@jamesjohnson01: Just read that from way up above here, and it was incredible. Brilliant post.

There are so many bitter comments from people here- so very mad about the Wii's success.

How damp is your pillow?

The Wii worked. That's it. People who bet on another one winning out were wrong. Now get over it and enjoy your system of choice.

@Anthony Noel: There's a lot wrong with your post.

Well, the GC shipped around 21 million worldwide. It wasn't just the "hardcore" that supported Nintendo. But even if it was, it showed Nintendo that the "hardcore" are a small portion of the market. The GC had a great library throughout it's existence that was pretty much focused entirely on the "hardcore". Where did it get them? Third.

Little evidence the Wii audience is becoming gamers? A global attach rate between 6 and 7 (for 50 million units sold, so 300-350 million pieces of software sold) isn't enough for you? People who have Wiis are buying games.

Also, there have been a number of third-party sales successes. Just because MadWorld didn't perform to our inflated expectations (who knows, maybe it met Sega's!) doesn't mean that it's a dire situation. It was a new IP, incredibly violent, and a short brawler. Would that have been successful on any other system? Not likely.

Also, it's too late - 3rd parties are already sinking large sums of money into Wii development / publishing - see EA, Ubisoft, Sega, Capcom, Squeenix, etc. Yes, it was mentioned last year, but guess what? It takes time to develop games. The library for the Wii has been good for gamers this year, and there are plenty more gems coming.

Basically, all of your talk about Nintendo and its system not supporting the hardcore is a bunch of shit.

I'm just curious - what do you think about the PS3? They were in 1st last generation. They had lots of money in the bank, a huge fanbase, and completely blew it. Are you pissed off at them? At all?

pslong9

@mlubczyn: >Jap crap

Fanboyism is okay, its a games website after all. But that? Sorry, your opinion doesn't matter anymore.

Leanid

Good for EA.

One thing for sure, the comments of all these hardcore screaming, bitching, moaning, and acting like a bunch of pre-teens in moment of self importance, sure is a HUGE contrast to what exactly is really happening in the industry.

And I'm going to go on the record and say. THANK FUCKING GOD FOR THAT

*goes back to playing Punch-Out!!

@mlubczyn:

Not only are you good at opinions, but you managed to be wittingly racist with that Jap crap comment!

Kudo! Sir!

@jamesjohnson01: Hey, there's nothing wrong with old-school graphics. Now go download and play Dwarf Fortress. It has no graphics to begin with, but I'll guarantee you it'll be more complex than any stupid shiny console game.

Leanid

@Skullabrineâ„¢:

No people should actually open their fucking eyes and go pick up some of the stellar third party games that are already out on the system and play them in addition to those good 1st party games.

They then maybe, might be surprised at the depth of the Wii's library and what it offers.

@Islandkiwi:

But it was okay for games to sell 2-5 million on avg. on a console (PS2) that had an install base of 120+ million? There wasn't a lot of crying when games like MGS, GOW, DMC, etc. did those numbers? Why the double standards?

@Anthony Noel:

Yeah let's discontout the extremely anti-nintendo in this post.

Nintendo didn't offer quality games with the N64. Put the pipe down. Some of the best most innovative games of that gen came out on Nintendo. The reason why they lost 3rd party support WAS BECAUSE OF DOLLAR SIGNS. It cost more to develop for the N64 vs. PS1. Cheaper development cost, and a large install base that continued to grow = developers leaving Nintendo's side. If there was more money to be made on the N64 vs. PS believe me the developers would have put up with those "draconian" practices.

Next brand loyalty, isn't the reason the PS3 is failing. Re-read your own post and substitute the first two paragraphs with Sony and their business practices. Launching a system for $600 at retail with almost no games to support or feature why it was uber awesome was Sony's downfall. Devs complaining that it was too hard to develop for the PS3 vs. 360 helped to usher along Sony's downfall. Not to mention Sony's piss poor online implementation offered under the guise of being "free" when Xbox Live was clearly the standard and a huge selling point.

Your comment about the different development cycles for the consoles is asinine at best. This is a business with great risk, comes great rewards. Nintendo did what they did, just to combat the narrow mindedness that you so brilliantly displayed in your prose. They DID NOT WANT TO PLAY FOLLOW-THE LEADER/TRENDS they wanted to do something else. Just like Sony did with cd format (which subsequently they were using because they WERE ALL IN ON THAT MEDIA not because of the awesome storage innovation for teh gamerz!).

While you say it adds to the development of the title? It's cheaper plain and simple to develop for the Wii than the other (Fact) and you don't need to sell a gazillion games to return a profit (fact) and the legs of general Nintendo games and games on their system are usually long (look at sales tracking data for games that aren't just Nintendo brand).

Nintendo didn't lose gamers. Maybe to you hardcore hordes on the internet. But I consider myself a gamer, I'm talking right to you hordes, and I play my Wii on the regular. There's tons of good titles besides Ninty's franchises available now. What's the so-called hardcores excuse for not picking them up? Or checking them out? There' always a ton of:

-Looks too kiddy
-Not for me
-Waggle this waggle that
-Blah Blah Blah

No the truth is the hardcore type, the same ones who lament Ninty's franchise's as same old same old. When they get new interesting games they approach them from the narrow minded sector. Go play Zack & Wiki and get all S rankings on every level and tell me about "hardcore". No the hardcore set is too busy dick eating the next GTAV, MGS5, FFXIV, DMC5, GOW4, HALO4, etc. etc.

They want more of the same trended shit.

@Anthony Noel: The "Hardcore" already got their main franchises early on this generation. They've already appeased the Nintendo faithful. If this is isn't a long-winded troll, you sound just like one of those unappeasable gamers. Remember that Nintendo is still just a single development company. They're already arguably one of the best ones, certainly the one with the best track record.

A lot of the scorn for "hardcore" gamers that think Nintendo have abandon them comes from the fact that Nintendo, by and large, has not done anything noticeably worst than the dark days of the N64 and GC. Simply put, they're wrong. These gamers always mention how great the N64 and GC were, and how terrible the Wii is when in Nintendo has remained more or less consistent over the generations. If anything, Nintendo has released more frequently this generation.

And "casuals" do buy Mario games; have you seen the stats for games like New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Kart (DS and Wii)? There's also the case that maybe you have simply outgrown Nintendo? You've played through X number of sequels which are effectively the same game X number of times.

Leanid

@Anthony Noel:
"So why should I buy an N64, when I'll get one fantastic game a year out of Nintendo and then it'll collect dust for the remainder of the year. That's not gamers flipping off Nintendo, that's Nintendo screwing up and losing gamers due to the inability to provide quality product at a steady rate."

This is funny. :D

First: One fantastic game a year?

1996: Killer Instinct Gold, Mario Kart 64, Pilotwings 64, Shadow of the Empire (Nintendo published), Mario 64, Wave Race 64. This was in the FIRST YEAR OF ITS EXISTANCE.

1997: Blast Corps, Bomberman 64(Nintendo published), Diddy Kong Racing, Goldeneye 007, Mischief Makers, Star Fox 64, Yoshi's Story

1998: 1080* Snowboarding, Banjo-Kazooie, F-Zero X, Ocarina of Time, Mario Party

1999: Bomberman Hero(Nintendo published), Command and Conquer (nintendo published), Donkey Kong 64, Jet Force Gemini, Mario Golf, Mario Party 2, Pokemon Snap, Pokemon Stadium

2000: Banjo-Tooie, Excitebike 64, KIrby 64, Majora's Mask, Paper Mario, Perfect Dark, Pokemon Puzzle League, Pokemon Stadium 2, Starcraft 64(Nintendo published),

2001: Bad Fur Day

And not just Nintendo games, third parties DID release perfectly good exclusives: Castlevania, Mystical Ninja Starring Goemon, Goemon's Great Adventure, Starshot: Space Circus Fever, Chameleon Twist, Body Harvest, ClayFighter 63 1/3, not to mention perfectly good ports to/from other systems, like Gex 64 which added another level in the process.

As for the Wii, what, Nintendo hasn't done this before? Do some research in how Nintendo launched the NES. They marketed it as a toy, in order to avoid anti-game stigma.

@jamesjohnson01:

Brilliant post this shit needs to be stickied on the brains of all the crying so-called hardcore that just got into gaming during the Playstation era.

BRILLIANT

finally somebody realizes that the 360 and ps3 are just gimmicky fads and are deciding to develop for a real machine.

good job ea. hopefully you can re obtain the status you had in the early 90s.

Bubbleman!

@Jimbotron: ahhh I was waiting for this since it's the most common response to any argument against Nintendo and their actions with the wii, you're a whiner boo hoo nintendo doesn't need you at all. Get over yourself. Not any form of rebuttal to my points, just your an egotistical "hardcore" and nintendo doesn't need you anymore. Well here's my response to that argument.

For one Nintendo are doing great with "whiners" like me. I own a wii, I bought Zelda, and Mario and Metroid, I bought Madworld and Okama. That means I'm a customer of theirs and they do owe me something, which was the whole point of my post.

Me and the rest of the "whining hardcore" are the only thing that kept them from going the route of Sega into 3rd party status, the Wii only exists because of us "hardcore" gamers, who do you think bought the N64 and the gamecube? Who do you think bought the games for those systems, it wasn't "casual" gamers, or the "expanded market" created by the playstation brand. It was the kids who got an NES when they were 10.

And you better believe I do matter. When "hardcore" gamers point out that the wii is a fad, they don't mean the system is a failure or that the Wii is a bad peice of hardware incapable of producing good product, they mean that the overwhelming surge of mainstream popularity that propelled Nintendo into first is a fad, and it's one that's fading.

Sales levels for the wii hardware are stabilizing, going from mainstream propelled sales to the steady levels of a system mid way through it's life cycle.

But if you remove that huge mainstream push then Nintendo has a potential problem and it's one that they need the "whiners" to fix. Nintendo claims they've grown the market, and that may be true in the short term, but there is little evidence that a large portion of that expanded audience are actually becoming gamers.

While a fairly substantial number of games sell extremely well on the Wii those games tend to be high quality first party games and some of the higher quality so called "casual" games.

Again for the first party games, who do you think is buying them, it's the "hardcore" gamer. It's me, the guy who owns every mario kart ever made, who owns every zelda game,(except those Phillips produced abortions). And while it's true that some of the new gamers who bought a wii will buy those games and love them and become gamers and ironically enough become the "hardcore" gamer that you so dismissively spit such vitriol at, the majority of this expanded audience are at least for now not even picking up additional games past wii sports and wii play that comes with their wii mote.

Maybe that will change but I for one don't think that's likely, if they haven't by now it's unlikely that they'll start to do so. And what happens when the wii is no longer being propelled by massive mainstream success and a large portion of your expanded market has gone on their way to the new "fad", well Nintendo will be left with a huge wad of cash and those same old "hardcore" gamers, ranks bolstered by those expanded gamers who stuck around, and then they'll be back in the exact same situation as they were after the SNES.

That's right Nintendo is in the same place they were in 94, they're the number one player, they've got lots of money in the bank and a huge fanbase waiting for what they're going to do next. Except if they continue to alienate the "hardcore" gamer.

Why, because there is another word for "hardcore" gamer and that's "base" gamer. We were the ones who bought the N64 and got burned, then we lined up and bought the Gamecube even after that. We're the ones who always buy your stuff.

Except we bought the N64 and the Gamecube because we knew you were going to produce for us, sure maybe nobody else was going to on your system, but Nintendo first party would. Sure it was only once a year but for that one time a year you gave us magic, a level of quality and craftsmanship that only a few other developers can match and none have ever exceeded.

Well if you fail to do that, if the best you can offer us is Gamecube ports with crappy waggle controls patched on then we are not going to be around the next time Nintendo needs us to keep them afloat when the expanded market dries up. Nintendo can't really hope that 3rd party developers are going to pick up the slack because to be honest so far the few 3rd party developers who actually dropped so money on developing unique and interesting games for the wii have seen them become sales failures. Again, maybe that will change but for right now unless the conduit, the upcoming ghostbusters game and the recently announced bethesda soft game sell well it's unlikely that 3rd parties are going to bother to sink large sums of money into triple a wii development. I know this article talks about how 3rd parties are going to start taking the wii seriously, but if you look at this time last year, we were told the exact same thing.

That's why "I" matter, because me and the rest of the "hardcore" are the people who always buy Nintendo's stuff, we're the ones who are always there even after they produced two weak systems. And no I'm not talking about horse power, I'm talking about the quality and breadth of the games offered on them. And if you think Nintendo doesn't need us or that they're doing great without us remember the N64 and the Gamecube, then just think what would of happened to Nintendo after the SNES if we had not stuck around.

Anthony Noel

EA Nintendo Group Waking Up To Wii

the industry has woken up to Wii in the right way

So EA Nintendo were.. put to sleep until now? I see what you did there.

@zgreenwell: i think you can actualy be more precise with the wii thanks to the pointer that acts like a mouse. but i do get what you say the fast pased action might be to mush for the Wii poor prosesor to proses. well i can alwais hope on something good. but i think we boath know that is unlikely to happen >.>

Thanks for your reply

Maikel De Bakker

@mlubczyn: back then the gamecube was one of the most powerfull consoles (almost better than the xbox, miles above the PS2). but apparently "hardcore" agmers don't buy purple consoles and so the gamecube finsished last of its generation.

laencythe

@SageView: no, nazi in itself is only the abreviation of an adjective(nationalsocialist)
@Antiterra: yeah, I also find that incredibly irritating.

laencythe

@jamesjohnson01: Now you're pissed off when the same thing is happening to you. Nintendo looking beyond you and directly at the crowd behind you. Boohoo, you were the stupid fuckers "ruining gaming" in the 90s, deal with it, because by next generation all of those casuals are going to be regular gamers, and you'll be thankful that suddenly gaming isn't some nerdy stigma and that everyone is fucking doing it.

So basically, people should stop being angry with Nintendo, and instead just play the handful of 1st party stuff they've released, and then learn to ignore the rest of what Nintendo does?

Makes sense to me.

@mitch_93: I'm really curious as to what Bethesda has planned. I just hope that it's got as much time put into it as Fallout3. If not, oh well, they'll just get poor sales and claim they cannot make money on the Wii.

@Anthony Noel: "And then along comes the wii. Again, they shaft third party developers, this time it's not just a propitiatory storage format, now if you want to release a game on our system, you can't even port them, you have to make us an entirely new version."

No sir.. I can't tell about the NES and SNES days.. but on the Wii, Nintendo opened their doors for whoever wants to make a game for them, exactly like Sony did with the PSX and PS2! All the crappy shovelware and PS2 ports on the system are the proof of it..

And yeah, developers don't want to make Wii games cause they won't be able to port then to other consoles.. same way no one does DS or PSP games cause they won't be able to port them, right?

@Daniel Pizarro Sánchez: Ubisoft is actually slowly but surely turning into a good publisher for the Wii. The Rabbids games are solid, Anno just came out and is supposedly really good, and the next Rabbids game looks like it'll be fantastic. Ubisoft isn't entirely shit.

pslong9

ea likes the wii cause the games are really cheap to make

hope the wii fad dies soon

radster

That is not a big risk. If you release the game on the other systems including the PC, even if the game tanks on the Wii, you still make money on the millions of units that you sell on the other systems. Tell you what. Make the game only for the Wii, if you are so confident that it is not a fad and see what happens. If these companies are so confident make these games only for the Wii.Why not make Ghostbusters for the Wii the only version and let the 21 million Wii owners buy it?Because despite what people always say about confidence in Nintendo they still are wary of it. Why didn't Capcom take a chanced and put Street Fighter 4 or Resident Evil 5 on the Wii? Why didn't EA take a chance and put Mirror's Edge or the original Dead Space on the Wii? Because they are satisfied throwing Nintendo a few scraps ever now and again while they work on bigger more profitable things for other systems.

GoddardHalomitosis

@Anthony Noel: Nintendo doesn't have to do anything for you. They are doing great without whiners like you. You don't matter. Get over yourself.

Jimbotron

@Joe Lachiana: Had sega not screwed up with the 32X and Saturn, I am sure the Dreamcast would have been the top console, and Sega would be fighting Nintendo and Sony now instead of Microsoft. Sega had their arcade division to live off of, but by that time arcades were already disappearing quickly.

Jimbotron

@Daniel Pizarro Sánchez: I agree with splong9.

Aslo, there is more to games than just graphics and HD.

Jimbotron

@FunKrusher: Gotta love the Wii fanboys above all. Their enormously skewed priorities mutated to fit Nintendo's ridiculous "philosophy" coupled with an extremely rabid attitude make them look like raving hobos on the street. They're amusing to watch simply because they're so ridiculous.

Your post, sir, is an exemplary example of that.

RockyRan

@pslong9:

@Jimbotron: Yes, there's complex narratives, deep gameplay, adequate production values, meaningful design philosophies, attention to detail, respectable online infrastructures, etc.

And the majority of the Wii's library is lacking all of these. If you don't want to come off as an ignorant Wii fanboy, DON'T pretend like his arguments are all about "graphics and HD", because you know VERY WELL that they're not.

RockyRan

@Jimbotron: What variety? The only games that are remotely enjoyable are only that way when you lower your expectations. 99% of the library is filled with crap and you know it.

RockyRan

@Anthony Noel:

LoL and because this is so fun, I still need you to point out where I specifically mentioned you as in your screen name (not some I'm trying to be funny so I'm going to misspell your name on some 8th grade recess shit) and called you a dick eater.

@FunKrusher:

Bad grammar you're, etc. etc.

@Anthony Noel:

Nice try, my fault for generalizing there with the hardcore types and thinking you would get that when I seperated it by saying "the hardcore types" vs. "you hardcore types" in terms of dick eating and you seemingly hating on Nintendo.

I don't care to prove myself right, I'm just trying to fill in the color by number points that your coming off like an elitist, internet, smart mouthed asshole.

But you're already doing a bang-up job of that without my help! Good job, gold star for you.

@azr: Just so people don't get any more confused, I kind of am talking about quantity, QUANTITY OF QUALITY games.

@jamesjohnson01: When I said game library, did you really think I was talking about quantity and not quality? I thought it was pretty obvious, my apologies.

@FunKatcher:
"Please point out in my post where I specifically said Anthony Noel "eats dick." Or implied that you were of the eating dick element I was talking about?"

Actually you did call me a dick eater. "Nintendo hasn't lost any gamers. Maybe you hardcore hordes on the internet." And then later "No the hardcore set is too busy dick eating"

Well this is a logical device known as a syllogism, used to create a logical connection between a universal and a particular. In this case, hardcore gamers eat dick, you are a hardcore gamer, there fore you are a dick eater.

Ooops there I go again flaunting all my fancy book learning by pointing out that you implied I was of "the eating dick element I was talking about."

Hmm you might want to rethink your previous gleeful post of how my lack of reading and comprehension skills have failed me and in someway shape or form had allowed you to win, I mean, after all "I don't care nearly as much as you do to prove myself or points right."

Anthony Noel

@jamesjohnson01: LOL! There's always an 'Except for...' in relation to Nintendo.

Speaking for myself, before leaving for a teaching position in South Korea, I had the original Playstation, a GameGear (bought in Singapore when my family was moving from Australia to Vancouver), Gameboy Color and Sega Saturn. I'd bought the Saturn for Panzer Dragoon and its seemingly bright promise of a new age in graphics (heh, oops...). Prior to the release of FF7, the Playstation early on was marketed as a great source of 2D fun, plus later on it was the only way to play Monster Rancher. The Gameboy had been pretty much used for just Tetris, Metroid, Pokemon and Zelda titles. While Mario and his buddies were fun to play with when I was younger, I'd considered myself done with that stage of my life.

Since then, I've owned an Xbox (primarily for Halo and Steel Battalion), and many versions of the GBA and SP (I was collecting different versions for a bit at the time).

Until I'd picked up my first DS Lite, Nintendo had pretty much fallen off the radar for me. I never really had much experience with Gamecube or N64 games, apart from titles I'd been working on at EA Sports Canada. But just as you say, every time a new Zelda or what not was announced from Nintendo, I was always there at least tentatively willing to fork over my life savings to the altar of Nintendo. Bur mainly just those titles for the most part.

That being said, I think it's nearly a tie between the number of Playstation titles I had at the time compared to the number of DS titles I have now. I generally go for games that offer large amounts of customization, whether it be in the form of weapons, items, areas to explore, etc. etc. So Carnage Heart on the Playstation was representative to me of the sort of new offerings Sony was bringing to the table. Its graphics were somewhat crude, but the ability to program your robots to seek out and destroy the bots produced by the AI offered an experience unlike anything else available at the time (and possibly even now). Finally something that didn't involve jumping from platform to platform, or beating the crap out of something in a 2d fighting game. It was a truly remarkable game.

To be completely honest, I'm getting that same sense of discovery from the Nintendo Wii. I bought my Wii on account of the release of WiiFit. I'd always wanted to do yoga but never really had a convenient time or way to try it out. The Wii was also intended to be a good motivation for me first thing in the morning while looking for work. Get up, have a quick shower, depending on mood and time maybe put in half an hour to a couple hours exercise, and then carry on with the rest of my day. Sure it came bundled with a nunchuk and Wii Sports, but I've never tried the Wii Sports game yet. The only other game I have for it is Rune Factory Frontier. I'd like to pick up Punch Out, Conduit, Galaxy, Metroid, Twilight Princess and Boom Blox, but there's that small matter of money...

The main thing I'm getting out of Nintendo products though, is exploration. Exploration of self via WiiFit, and discovering new ways to play such as with The World Ends With You. Every time I've thought Nintendo wasn't going to be able to offer me something relevant and interesting, they go and launch a Personal Trainer: Cooking (fantastic value by the way!). Nintendo was very clear when they launched the Wii - they are looking to really disrupt the market, by challenging our conceits and preconceived notions of what makes a good experience. Hang in there, E3 is only weeks away. Let's wait till then before we start to lambaste them.

Colin Craig Pattinson

@DakranII: I thought the silliness of my post was ridiculously apparent with my contradicting statements.

@azr: You know what I think is kind of funny? How I look on the ESRB and it reports back 1,000+ Wii games, and only 625 GameCube games.

@Jimbotron: Anthony speaks the truth. It was considered to be a deeply offensive action against Nintendo by Squaresoft. Until that point in time, they'd had a very close relationship, and Final Fantasy games printed money for the system. Additionally, Squaresoft was closely associated with Nintendo. To suddenly lose that advantage to an 'upstart' competitor, must have been very hard to deal with.

I recall having once bought Final Fantasy 3 (aka, FF 6) for the SNES as a Christmas present for my brother. The cart cost around $100 CDN at the time. This was the retail price, not an import. While it was very pricey, my brother was worth it and that was all that mattered, but still, I often wondered why they felt they should charge so much.

Fast forward to several years later, and I'd discovered that while working for EA Sports Canada, dev cartridges for things like the N64 were about 25 bucks a cartridge. These costs had to be absorbed by companies in order to develop games for Nintendo. And naturally that ended up making the games more of a wallet killer as a result.

So when I started seeing ads on buses and Skytrain for Final Fantasy 7 (I live in Vancouver), I wasn't all that surprised to see them focus on the limited storage capacity of the SNES. If I recall correctly, the pitch was something to the effect of needing over one hundred SNES carts to be able to match the quality of the FF7 experience on the newly-released Playstation. By the time the ads had been launched, relations between the two companies had already gotten to the point of no return.

Ultimately, had Nintendo been willing to offer a more efficient storage medium, the video game landscape as we know it today might have been very different. Pride was their major downfall in that instance involving Squaresoft. You made mention of Nintendo lifting their ban due to the success of FF 7 - if anything, that would have validated their ban even more. The Nintendo of that generation was different to the one we have today. More rigid, stiff and traditional. Until Sony came along, they'd been the top of the roost for the longest time and had been quite content being in that position. There were no other options really for Japanese companies to develop for if they were serious about making a profit. Partnerships between companies were and still are built on trust and mutual respect. By jumping ship to another platform like that, from Nintendo's POV this was very much akin to announcing a divorce. It was definitely no small matter.

The following link covers a small slice of that period of time: [www.gamespot.com]

Colin Craig Pattinson

@jamesjohnson01: "You know why most people don't bother to think about that? Because you fuckers are that expanded audience. YOU were the casuals of the 90s, because Sony marketed the Playstation to your soft easily manipulated grey matter, becoming attracted to a Playstation the same way you were to cereal brands with cool decoder rings inside."

I have no problems with Nintendo marketing the Wii for a more casual audience, just like I never had a problem with Sony doing it back in the day. I have a problem with the game library, which is the weakest of this generation (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION), and of any generation tbh.

NES > Wii
SNES > Wii
N64 > Wii
GC > Wii
GB > Wii
GBA > Wii
DS > Wii

See that? I'm not even comparing it to any other companies console or handheld, only their own. And once again, I would like to state that I am not trying to forward this as facts, just MY opinions. This is the reason why I am disappointed in the Wii. Of course, I agree that alot of the reasons people give for disliking the Wii are silly, Nintendo don't owe us anything, they're company just like any other, out to make money. MY problem is not with Nintendo, just with the Wii.

The douchebag you quoted is nothing but a rampant fanboy. He obviously has a big problem with the expanded audience that Sony brought in with the PSX, but he is vehemently defending the expanded audience that Nintendo are bringing in atm with the Wii.

@jamesjohnson01: Woah, that's a little terse. I bought Okami Wii and love it. My observation is that playing the wii at all has a learning curve. The more you play it, the more comfortable you are with the controls. For example, I play Metroid Prime 3 effortlessly on veteran sensitivity and enjoy it immensely. My brother, a PC shooter kind of guy, can't really get a grip on the control scheme. The intricate shapes of Okami are the last thing I'd have him play.
Regarding the 3 foot range, you're wrong. I play from farther away.
Regarding the waggle. I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe it's the same familiarity thing. It hasn't ever bothered me, but I've played Twilight Princess twice.

methan69

@FunKrusher:

Damn this no edit feature!

"guess what I learned in college!" - format

Is how that's supposed to read.

@Skitch:

Thanks he doesn't get it. He's trying to talk shop and be witty in the "guess what I learned in college!"

It's not that serious, as well as he didn't read and comprehend anything I wrote (he thought I was trying to argue with him), so he jumped over it assumed I was insulting him, and ran away with it.

Reading and comprehension FTW!

@FunKrusher:

*match the skirt is what I meant.

@Anthony Noel:

Reading and comprehension FTW!?!?!?!

Please point out in my post where I specifically said Anthony Noel "eats dick." Or implied that you were of the eating dick element I was talking about?

Go ahead I'll wait. But let me save you the trouble of further looking like more of an ass, than you already do since you keep referencing it. I didn't. Please use all your astute reading and comprehension skills to re-read my post, specifically the part where I said: "the hardcore set is too busy eating dick".

For some reason I can't seem to find your name in that comment, or piece together how it was in any way, shape, form, or context directed towards you? Unless you fall into the category of people that I was referencing. Which in that case is you dissing yourself not me.

Like they say "If the shoes match the skit and fit? Wear em."

But please stop trying to be witty and coming off lame with the "FunKrusher said I like to eat dick. So I'm going to try and show my psuedo-intellectual lame attempts at wit to reference him, as well as counter diss!"

Because I never said that.

Carry on.

It was a fad for quite sometime actually and to me it will continue to be so till some actual good games come out for it.

If nintendo would stop allowing just anyone to crank out shit games for it and start treating it like a real gaming system then perhaps I would treat it as one.

But they have hit a market of dolts that dont play games as a normal hobby and are passionate about it. So they market stuff to idiots to make them not feel like they are nerds by gaming or outsiders of a gaming community.

I got a wii and I have spent more time playing gamecube games on my wii than playing actual wii games.

@ FunKrusher: You didn't mention my name however to once again point out to you what you actually said, which I've had to do alot in these little posts "Please point out in my post where I specifically said Anthony Noel "eats dick. Or implied that you were of the eating dick element I was talking about."

I did point out exactly in your post where you implied I was a dick eater. I didn't string a bunch of words together and as you say "put together some sort of reasoning saying I implied it." You did that. In your post. You strung together a bunch of words and you categorized me as a dick eater.

"Nice try, my fault for generalizing there with the hardcore types and thinking you would get that when I seperated it by saying "the hardcore types" vs. "you hardcore types" in terms of dick eating and you seemingly hating on Nintendo."

This, as an argument doesn't make sense, saying you hardcore types states that "I" am one of these hardcore types, then saying the hardcore types eat dicks, means that you are saying that I eat dicks. It's as simple as that. Yes you created a generalized group of people, the "hardcore types" but you in no way separated them into two groups dick eaters and non dick eaters. If I initially label you as a member of a group, then when I refer to that group I also refer to you.

Anyway, I'm pretty much done with you, spit and sputter all you want about how I'm a pompous ass for pointing out your screw ups and insults. Wail and gnash your teeth at the fancy book learning that twists your exact words into other meanings. Scream softly at the injustice of it all. I mean you point out so many times how little you care about proving your points right and yet each time you must come back and try to prove your points right, it must be tiring.

So I'm done, I'll play the martyr this time and decree that I'm done, you've beaten me, you've won, you've stripped me naked and shown the world what a pompous fool I've been. I mean I don't really care as much as you do about proving I'm right, so it's over. Sleep better at night knowing that you got me.

You win.

Anthony Noel

@Anthony Noel:

*Yawns

@DakranII: Not really. Blu-Ray was the next logical step. Why go into the next generation with 10 year old technology? They stepped it up from CD to DVD from the PS1 to PS2 era, why not do the same thing with the PS2 to PS3? If people had said 4 years ago, that the next industry leader would be the console with the most outdated tech, that wasn't even the cheapest console on the market, people would have laughed.

@jamesjohnson01: The funny thing is you couldn't be more wrong. Nintendo lost the console war in the N64 and Gamecube era because they were hugely outplayed. The PS2 has 100+ AAA games on it. The Gamecube has less than 10. The PSX had 50+ AAA games on it, The N64 had around 5. And nothing sounds more ridiculous than people saying the Gamecube lost last generation because it was hardcore. It was a purple square for Gods Sake. No DVD playback, hardly any new IP's, a lot of the games were still for kids back then, while Sony was growing with its customers. Nintendo hasn't grown up in over 20 years, which is fine to keep attracting new customers, but buggers up the ones you already have. The Jonas Brothers aren't going to have my little sister as a fan in 5 years. She's a huge fan now, but she'll grow up, and outgrow the JB unless they evolve as well. Nintendo hasn't grown up, and they are ridiculous with how they are so afraid of new IP's. I'm afraid I'm still going to be playing nothing but Mario, Zelda, Metroid 50 years from now. While the other consoles are birthing new franchises, the wii has decided to stick with the same ones they've had for 25 years. The Gamecube lost because it looked like Rosie Odonell sitting next to Jessica Alba. Garbage in comparison.

@RockyRan: Thanks for actually reading my post.

Daniel Pizarro Sánchez

@cabjf: Only EA is taking the platform seriously? Did you forget about Activision, one of the largest publishers in the world? Or Ubisoft? Between Rabbids and Guitar Hero alone, they've made piles of cash.

@Slagathorian: Except that the PS2 housed the oldest tech from last gen.

EmeraldDragon

@Slagathorian: You think the PS 1 or 2 was released with all those AAA games? Nope, it got them through snowball effect.

Sony used cheaper, lower quality CDs and made it less expensive to make games for their console; so more developers went there, and made more games, which sold more consoles and increased the install base, which encouraged developers to make more games...you should get the idea.

By comparison, the N64 and GC were more expensive to develope for and so got less games, which meant less people bought it, which discoraged developers from make more games...hey, this is all starting to sound like the PS3 and Wii ain't it. Odd how that works.

EmeraldDragon

@Anthony Noel: Odd, as an owner of an N64 and a GameCube, I do not feel betrayed by Nintendo and love my Wii. Please keep your over reaching, blanket statements as opinions and stop stating them as facts.

EmeraldDragon

@Islandkiwi:'s did.

Sad really.

EmeraldDragon