Tetris Creator Skeptical Of Project Natal

ahh the father of gaming from the mother of my country. MOTHER RUSSIA.

The Wii controller works about 60% of the time when using motion control.

Lou3000

@jedbeetle: No, it's just the fanboy joke.

Svend Joscelyne

Right.. because the Wii remote has 99.9% accuracy when using its motion control capabilities. We all know how much of a failure that is...

/sarcasm

asphix20

@MaxDragon7: That .1% is when you don't press the buttons hard enough. You have to punch the keys, for God's sake!

Natal has the potential to be huge...but has a LOT of hurdles to pass. What we DON'T know so far is a significant list:

How much will it cost?
How sensitive is it?
How quickly does it respond?
How does it react to different lighting/sound conditions?
How many games will support it?

The Wii controller offers some nice options, but sometimes the derisive 'waggle' sums up what is essentially a poor substitute for just pressing a button. Handled well, such controls are immersive and cool. Handled poorly, such controls are redundant, unresponsive and tiring.

Remember when we all thought the Wii controllers were as responsive as it now turns out that the WiiMP will make them? Natal needs to avoid that pitfall. And Natal simply isn't going to be appropriate for many games. Yes, it's very quaint to play a driving game where you hold up your hands and move your foot for the gas...for about 5-10 minutes. Then your arms get tired. You're not holding a real, physical object...you're just holding your arms up in the air. Now imagine doing that for an hour-long session of Burnout, Gears of War or Halo 3.

Natal's coolest moments are showing you navigating the interface without a controller and using only some simple gestures and vocal recognition. For some games, Natal could be revolutionary. Imagine Halo Wars or Red Alert with controls that use your hand and gestures like a PC mouse and vocal recognition for commands.

But at the moment, it's more of a commercial for the API that goes with a new camera device and not much more.

WizarDru

@Thut: People also seem to have forgotten the 'Wii Elbow' effect. Are you going to play Gears of War 3 standing up for hours on end? I don't think so. Are you going to play Tekken 7 by actually mimicing the movements of your fighter? Nuh uh. Even if Natal works perfectly, there are simple physical limitations to the technology that will limit it.

And if I'm playing Halo:Reach on the couch with Natal, what advantage do I get over just using the traditional controller?

WizarDru

@Accordion: "imple interactions with no consequence. "

What does that even MEAN? Maybe you're trying to say that Nintendo has made games too accessible? Too Easy? That you can't fail at them or something, even when you make a mistake? I'm not really following it.

If that was your point, then you clearly haven't played Punch-Out!, Excitebots, SSBM, Metroid, etc.

WizarDru

@Dear_God:
I'm pretty sure The Tetris Company has the rights to Tetris and will let practically anyone use it under license (but are apparently vicious about unlicensed use of Tetris/Tetriminos etc).

TrjnRabbit

The main limitation of Natal is something that no many folks recognize.

Let's say for a second that it works perfectly. You're still restricted to standing in a small circle, which means no real movement is allowed without the use of another peripheral or certain gestures that would break the illusion of reality.

This restricts the motion controller to a limited range of actual games and a myriad of activities and toys, as we've experienced with the Wii. In the case of the Wii, however, you do in fact have a controller in your hand that allows for smoother integration.

The problem is, how can you improve upon it? How can you allow the player to explore a large world without loosing some of the game's immersive qualities? And furthermore, how many people would have the physical stamina to physically trek around the virtual worlds of most games?

For as many good games that might come out for this impressive piece of hardware, you know there will be 10 times as many stinkers.

Thut

@Clockw0rk: Yeah, that "pre-determined waggle commands from the couch"-comment was hilarious. Even more so because the woman demonstrating Natal at the time was showing "full body waggle in front of the TV".

JTF

stay classy san russiageo

webkatt

@Weepee:

It is addictive and has unlimited appeal. The Wii has failed at the formerup until now. let alone the other two. So yeah, games of today may not be defined by Tetris, but it is an ideal for which they strive.

@ScholarMasterJ: Most of my friends' wii's are sitting in their [shoe closet] [bio-degrading] because my friends [developed aneurysms while playing them]

jedbeetle

@domhnall: and fucking dirty hipsters. And dirty hipsters fucking. Really, I've been there a bunch.

jedbeetle

@THEJOHNNYOHM: That IS the industry joke.

jedbeetle

@Clockw0rk:
Do you guys just draw comments out of a hat?

My Wii is (collecting dust/being sold on ebay/given away) because it (is for kids/doesn't work/has no games).
By the way...um. No matter how much you may misplace your frustration into the thing, that "industry joke" is leading in console sales.

@ScholarMasterJ: I mean the analog sticks and triggers on modern controllers all have dead space and other things that make them far less accurate then his 99.99% watermark but they're doing well for being so inaccurate so I'm not sure it's the accuracy that will be a problem. The challenge is to make the user believe that their intent is being executed and I don't believe what people feel is good enough is that high of a watermark.

@CustomFirmware: You get irritated easily. Wanna talk about it? :)

UndergroundDreamer

@Yin:

Only one in a hundred?

My Wii is collecting dust because the control scheme works maybe 75 percent of the time.

When my Wiimote is freaked out by the LEDs on the other electronics in the room other than the sensor bar, and 'waggle' needs to be fixed with a new wii motion plus adapter? Yeah. The Wii is kinda broken and doing SUPER. I think Natal will do just fine if Wii can survive becoming a industry joke (waggle from the couch!)

Next they'll announce hands-free Guitar Hero.. I happen to like controllers. I have a fighting stick, and Virtual On sticks as well as a USB Saturn pad. They should work on something useful like making the steering wheels more accurate.

The Wii isn't 99.9% accurate, not even close. But it still does a pretty good job of providing a fun experience.

MaWeiTao

@OtakuMan24: do you REALLY need to add your name to all your posts? That's really annoying. It's not like it's even a sig, you're manually typing it each time..

@Dear_God: Hmm but there was a teris out for PS2 and Tetris Splash did come out for the 360.

@OtakuMan24:

Seriously, you're signature is just irritating and serves no purpose.

We see your on top, that's enough.

CustomFirmware

@OtakuMan24: Are the games of today defined by tetris? Not really.

Weepee

@jayislost:
Utorrent also has Tetris, as does my Phone, and neither are Nintendo.
Tetris is kinda communist, Everyone owns it but no one does.

Well, let's bear in mind that if "gesture recognition" is anything like its retarded cousins "speech recognition" and "handwriting recognition" then it's not gonna work very well except in demos or with limited repertiore.

@Noodle-Works: Well at the end of the interview he says that this step in motion control has to be done, I see it more like an opening to Natal than calling it a soon to be disaster.

Also, I check the video on the Microsoft site about Natal and it seems that it has Voice Recognition (at least, Natal has a microphone). I must say that if they give developers a good framework including all these technologies, I can only see this as an innovation for gaming.

Alexey Pajitnov is a puzzle genius. This guy played a key role in the democratization of gaming. His comments about Natal are right and he knows what he is talking about.

slimky

@OtakuMan24: Nice post :)

I agree he is a complete legend, but hardly see him as an authority on motion sensing tech, motion based tetris regardless.

"tetris creator skeptical of insert-puzzle-game-here" would make perfect sense. I'd find comments far more relevant if they came from nintendo for instance.

@NeoStarr: Can you guys imagine playing it with motion controls at the highest settings? If it's got any lag, you're dead. I can't even move my fingers fast enough to do that high level stuff, let alone my arms/legs/body.

kagekiri

@NeoStarr:
Hmm Tetris in 3D. where the playing board twists about. that's be interesting.

@deanbmmv: What about Tetris Party? It uses the balance board.

jayislost

@Dear_God:
Nintendo kinda used to have the rights.
But cos of the whole "In soviet Russia Tetris Plays you" thing, it's a bit iffy as it was owned by Russia, then he got the rights back after Soviet Russia collapsed.. .and it's all a bit iffy on who actually wons the rights. Otherwise you wouldn't see so many knockoff everywhere cos folks don't know who ot sue n if they can sue.

@NeVeRMoRe666:

Then downside of full body motion controls.

When you feel like throwing the controller and the controller is you. :)

*THUD*

~Otaku-Man

OtakuMan24

@ScholarMasterJ: Is it the downstrum? If so, you probably have a gen 1 RB guitar, and you should've sent it back a looong time ago. If it isn't that, then you probably have a non-CRT TV and you need to correct audio calibration.

And if it's not either of those, then like buckeyes said - you just suck a rockband. :p

1Grand_Marquis

@robinandtami: That's because Ajitnov is like a fine wine - he gets better with age.

1Grand_Marquis

@ThisDudeRufus:

OtakuMan24: Creates posts that are so long he has to sign his name at the bottom, just in case someone forgets who created the perfect post.

Avonej

@Dear_God: motion based tetris interesting concept

Andre Oceans

@ScholarMasterJ: Lol, and someone should next bring up arguments on DDR buttons working 99.9% of the time...

I agree though, the Wiimote is rather unresponsive for what it's meant to do... all the good games end up using the less subtle motions to counter, so in the end, it's more a waggle then a motion controller...

xyzl

@tehsquish - finally beat GH3 on hard: Here, you forgot something:

Sincerely yours,
~tehsquish

spannu

@buckeyes75: ha. My thoughts exactly.

@Accordion: Oh well done, though your definition is short and succinct it captures so much of what gamers just dont understand.

@NeVeRMoRe666:

casual is today what nintendo has defined it. family oriented small, simple interactions with no consequence.

+ Watch video

@OtakuMan24: Hexic is awesome! Much better than Tetris in my opinion.

Woah, this guy is still alive?! Also, no one is doing any of the, "In Soviet Russia ... YOU!" ? Quite frankly, I'm sad.

I'm more interested in the Natall as a form of interface instead of a form of control.

The 360 interface becomes like a mascot(or a cutey anime girl) acknowledges me through facial recognition when I enter the room, I say something like "Are there any new demos up today?", it detects that through speech recognition, and answers accordingly. That type stuff.

He is right. its gonna take time for this natal thing to excel and be mainstream.

@Alternate, I cho-cho-chose the impossible: A guy on the internet said it and I have no reason not to believe him.

@Accordion: I'm with you, this technology has so many applications, and that marketing shtick was just that, shtick. It sucked and it didn't for a second show off what potential this device has.

That doesn't mean this device doesn't have potential, just means MS doesn't seem to notice.

innuendo

@computor: lol... No one said Natal was going to be casual. And what's the definition of causal anyway? Non-shooter? Rare's been at that for a looong time. I don't care what or how they do it, just bring back the MAJIK!

@computor: WOAH SHIT ARE WE IN CAPS LOCK MODE NOW? SWEET!

@NeoStarr:

You cant argue against the turn around though.

Everything from the NXE onwards is about making the console appeal to the new market. All i remember from the conference coming from MS was Alan Wake, which is a long time coming, and two Halo games. The big focus for MS is undeniably casual; Facebook, Twitter, Last.fm, Natal. Rare has been put to work "outside traditional game space" Its not that i disagree with going after the casual gamer, just how it is a 180 on their previous actions.

I have very large doubts about Sony's solution also. While it certainly seems ready to feature in both "core" and "casual" games, the fact the PS3 has to handle the tracking may be a very big problem for third parties.

@OtakuMan24: Just so you know your name appears at the top of all your posts, this format of commenting isn't meant for signatures.

@NeVeRMoRe666: i will respond you with an example: RARE WONT BE MAKING NORMAL GAMES BECAUSE THEY ARE IN CHARGE OF PROJECT NATHAN AND THIS IS PROBABLY BECAUSE THEY WERE PART OF NINTENDO SO THEY KNOW MORE ABOUT "MAJIK"

computor

This just in, Natal is a secret communist brainwashing tool!

@Kanik: I think that's because Ninty owns the rights to the game.

Dear_God

@MaxDragon7: I JUST DON'T USUALLY PLAY ON THIS ANGLE! >_<

Sorry, Tetris can be frustrating.

@ThisDudeRufus:

Fun-ny...

Okay, so I got on a tangent! It happens!

I've said my piece, I'm done.

~Otaku-Man

OtakuMan24

Not to discredit Alexey or anything but I really don't he did much but state the obvious, every technological venture has its bumps, it's part of the game. As far as the button interface working 99.9% I would seriously think about that statement a bit more, because there's working in the sense that you press the button on the controller to cause an action on the screen and there's working in the sense that the controls actually help the gameplay.

As far as a touch based Tetris, yeah okay good luck with that. Even if it works wonders doubt you'll find much of a market for that past a pack in game for some future wireless motion tech.

On the Natal technology I know everyone is skeptical, but I'll reserve judgment until I see a final product. One complaint I have to make against Microsoft however, is that if they truly wanted to prove that Natal was the real deal they should have put it on the show floor instead of restricting it to a "private" viewing, testing or whatever they did. If you say your technology works the way you're showing it on stage back it up by letting the expo goers take a crack at it then you'll have the stripes to back you're claim.

@NeVeRMoRe666: Because the goddamn s blocks have been pissing us off for so long they're finally giving us a chance to fight back. I'm gonna be ninja kicking those things around the screen.

@ScholarMasterJ: me thinks you kust fail at rb :)

buckeyes75

@NeoStarr: *grumble*

"...darned kids these days..."

"Back in my day, we used to play level 15 Tetris all the time!"

"You kids and your Sony Playstations..."

^_^

@Accordion: Natal is an merely an accessory for people who want to "chase the Wii" on their X=Box. They'll continue to give you your regular dose of "core" games should you choose not to buy it.

@woons:

I would interview him and ask his thoughts on gaming rather then some punk 30-something named "Dude Huge" whos idea of innovation is taping chainsaws to things.

Tetris = Classy.

and he is 100% right about controls. if it doesn't work correctly 1 time out of 100, you've failed. And i don't see how Natal can manage that. at least not now. and not in 5 years.

I would work on voice communication. at least that can be integrated into games released today. telling AI team mates to "flank left, watch your 6" and have them respond?

DO IT.

Noodle-Works

@OtakuMan24: Why, hello Mr. Longpost! I didn't know you'd be here today! Here, let me pull you up a--- oh, you're talking. I'll go make some tea, come back in five minutes and see if you're done.

ThisDudeRufus

@Accordion: It's not like the two is mutually exclusive. Microsoft is a HUGE company with a zillion dollars. Why can't they do both?

I'm glad this dinosaur is considered relevant anymore.

Oh wait.

wtf_G

@oldbucsfan: Not always. And sometimes, its too responsive.

This is a guess, but honestly I don't think Wiimotes are anywhere near 99% accurate.

@OtakuMan24: lol...I can see it now. Gamers will be throwing their faces into the wall instead of throwing their controls after getting PWNEDTEABAG by a nine-year old on Halo 4.

@hot_heart: +10

@raviadso:

1) He made a good share of money after 1994, when the rights to Tetris came back to him after the contract with the, by then defunct, Soviet Union were up. I'd say he's made his fair share of money and is quite happy.

2) I would NOT equate him to Nolan Bushnell. Nolan Bushnell, while clever in his own way with his daring entrepreneurial spirit, did NOT sit down, think up an original game idea, and code it from scratch like Alexey Pajitnov did. On top of that, Alexey Pajitnov has been involved in the game business ever since he created Tetris in 1984. Unlike Nolan who stepped away time and again, he stayed entrenched in game design continuously. He made HEXIC for crying out loud, and who knows what else he's working on.

To say he's as well informed as some random person's mother... well that's just insulting to a REALLY great man in gaming history.

~Otaku-Man

OtakuMan24

COMMUNISM. Screwed him over. Hard.

killah101

Something else that is somewhat interesting: Alexey Pajitnov worked at Microsoft from 1996 to 2005. One of his more well known titles from that time was Hexic.

"The controls will have one or two people standing on a platform using their motions to interact with the Tetris pieces shown falling down a giant screen."

Left.Right.Down. ....WHY?!?

@Miksho: You mean dirty fucking hipsters.

My biggest problem with Natal is that the tech is obviously there, the capability is there and working, but given the press event concept video Microsoft have every intention of chasing after the Wii rather than really pushing its capabilities.
that mock advert was as close to the Wii adverts as possible, and i have every reason to believe that is what MS wants it to be.
Can the 360 discard its current image as a "core" experience? SHould they be trying to ?

[Yes i saw Milo [wish i didnt] but i also remember Seaman.]

@MaxDragon7: Oh yeah! I thought it would leave a hole but now I realize that line above it would just disappear. Thanks!

@woons:

Most relevant voice?!

HE'S ALEXEY "TETRIS" PAJITNOV!!!

The man invented probably THE most successful game in the WORLD! 25 years old this year, and it's on just about EVERY platform known to man, KEEPS having new editions released, and created the term "Tetris Effect" where we see those tetromino blocks on the backs of our eyelids!

In addition to Tetris, he still works on new puzzle games, and is the guy behind HEXIC! Yeah, that game that comes free on the Hard Drive of the Xbox 360 you bought! The guy is a puzzle GENIUS, using that brilliant Russian scientist brain of his to create devious, entertaining, and addicting puzzlers!

To say he's not relevant is like saying how "Will Wright" or "Warren Spector" or any of the other fathers of gaming aren't relevant! Even the ones that are retired such as Toru "Pac-Man" Iwatani still have a RELEVANT voice because they've BEEN there! They've DONE that! And people take what their opinions SERIOUSLY because of their wisdom and experience.

I will grant you that he may not be the most ACTIVE member of the industry right now, but you never know what surprises may come up from those who are inactive. Toru Iwatani was inactive for a while, and he gave us Pac-Man Championship Edition. Keiji Inafune was doing more higher up stuff than game work, and he got active again with Mega Man 9! You never know what those old sages of game design and development have up their sleeves!

So too long, don't care version:

Not as active as others: Ok, I'll give you that.
Not as relevant as others: HELL NO!

~Otaku-Man

OtakuMan24

He said: 'The pieces! They just don't all fit together!'

@NeoStarr: Flip the block 90 degrees and drop it right where it is.

It clears a line and creates no new holes.

Brodka

@NeoStarr: For goodness sakes, just turn it and QUICK DROP it already!!!

This man speaks the thoughts I can't put into words. The primary reason I can't stand waggle controls is because half the time it doesn't even king work. Having to move your wrist is no big deal, but if I can't even have consistency then I am going to walk away frustrated.

BAM oups we are missing 1%

chamoo232

@ScholarMasterJ: huh? The Wii is very responsive and if you forgot, has buttons.

@MaxDragon7: :P
It's .1%, not .01%
Silly me.

Either way, I think it would guarantee to error every time if Natel, Nintendo's motion sensor, and Sony's motion sensor were to be in the same room with each other...

Who would win in a brawl anyway? (Just a fun exhibition match.)

Man, that picture is really fucking bothering me.

I can't figure out where I'm supposed to put that block.

Someone help?

@Spiffyness:
Seems like a decent guy and I feel sorry that he isnt a billionaire for his one epic creation, but his opinions about video games are about as well informed as my mother's. There are a lot of people that used to be legends that really dont deserve much video game press attention-- for instance, Nolan Bushnell

raviadso

@MaxDragon7: Not to mention the other .09% =]

I read Alexey's quotes and I keep thinking "Wow! I can hear his accent just reading those!"

Although saving what would normally be an E3 reveal for Burning Man...

...that's definitely a far cry from the Soviet Russia he came from. Maybe that's why they chose it?

~Otaku-Man

OtakuMan24

@woons: Maybe not, but he certainly created one of the most recognizable games of all time, and it's STILL being released (it's a top-seller on the iphone and nintendo's wiiware).

Shouldn't that be 0.1%? :)

bellini

@woons: Did YOU make Tetris?
Didn't think so.

@MaxDragon7: Well hopefully that won't be a big enough problem to really hurt the game, right?

Spiffyness

but the Wii is wat less then 99.9 percent responsive so people dont buy them at all...

"traditional button interface, he said, works 99.9 percent"
yeah right... I always be hittin the right notes on rock Band but no registration...

ScholarMasterJ

@woons: He's got more common sense than half of today's "relevant voices."

Spiffyness

@MaxDragon7:

That's usually what happens when you throw the controller at the wall and the buttons stop working.

Now replace the controller with you.

~Otaku-Man

OtakuMan24

Tetris at Burning Man? Awesome.

And by "Awesome," I mean "Dirty Hippies."

What about the .01%?!

@Spiffyness:

Well, his is hardly the most relevant voice in the industry today is it?

woons

They're working on a motion based Tetris...it isn't even out on the PS3!

It's a good point. I was playing a lot of SMG at my brothers lately, and even though the "shake to spin" thing usually worked fine, the 1 in a 100 it didn't work really pissed me off.

I like that guy :P It's a shame people don't ask for his opinions or just interview him more often.

Spiffyness

@NeVeRMoRe666: wow... combine it with a catchy tune and we have para para tetris :o

~dances some blocks into a multi-line combo~

"You have to have 99.9 percent accuracy, if it's 98.9 it's no good."

50% accuracy Wiimote says "hi!".

Deilgyre

if only he had made any contributions to gaming apart from Tetris, he might have a inch of credibility regarding today's developments in the industry.

frosty_theaussie