BioShock Designer’s New Project “More Ambitious” Than BioShock

Even MORE ambitious than System Shock Underwate- I mean Bioshock? amazing!

@Grand_Marquis: I don't understand why all these companies hold these properties without doing anything with them. They know what the fans want! It's borderline torture. But then again, I don't want to see another Soldier of Fortune game after that last one. And nobody asked for that one either. O_o

@raffleking: You'd better! He was making a BioMockery of what I thought was a BioShockingly good game! It BioRocked!

@StubbsDK: I see what you're trying to do, and it's irrelevant. cowondinosaur brought up the perfectly valid point that Heavy Rain is a very ambitious project, and suggested that it might even be ambitious by Peter Molyneux's standards. What he is saying is just that Peter Molyneux is a very ambitious game designer.

@BlooQKazoo: Absolutely. Chulder likes sunflower seeds and long underwear, and is a member of both the FBI and Electric Dream Machine.

Derek, IN

@OmegaVader: Honestly, I don't know why Bioshock is always being called, "a watered down System Shock 2". I mean, I know that both games have a bunch of similarities, and it's easy to draw parallels in story progression as well as general gameplay mechanics, but in my opinion, the way that Plasmids worked with the physical environment was so very different from Shock 2's rpg-like structure and Psychic powers that the gameplay is different enough to make Bioshock stand on its own, not to mention Bioshock's narrative was more of a commentary than was the sci-fi thriller plot of Shock 2.

@Ralavik: Castle Wolfenstein says hello back. It technically was the first stealth game. You can't say that it was good, but in my opinion, neither was Metal Gear. Thief is the true real innovator in Stealth Action IMO. MGS comes second in that respect.

@jandlecack: I completely agree. Bioshock was essentially System Shock 2 but in a steam punk universe. Play them side by side and you can tell.

vitalogst

@Grand_Marquis: no no no. we all wished it was. it was just a watered down retread dumbed down for the consoles.

if THAT is what system shock was going to become im almost glad EA retains the rights and that EA decided against a sequel.

abort_user

@jandlecack:
Then I suppose the prospect of their next title being more ambitious than Bioshock shouldn't be too much of a stretch for you.

@jandlecack: you meant to say its watered down system shock 2.

abort_user

@GorbyGipper:

Metal Gear says hello.

Ralavik

@ChadWardenn: I've never noticed how much they look alike! :D WILDCARD!

@Anselmo: For the same reason the Spielberg, Lucas, Bay, Mann, that guy who directed the Godfather (who for some reason I can't remember his name) are famous. You can't say that those guys make their movies by themselves, but you can say that they are geniuses whose possess a vision that places them head and shoulders above the rest in their respective fields.

Simple fact: the Boss always gets the majority of the credit.

Slightly more complicated fact: sometimes they actually deserve it, too.

Is he standing in Chicago? I just visited Chicago, and I thought it was such a beautiful city, with some of the best architecture in the world. Those buildings around him remind me of the fantastic buildings along the river.

Can anyone confirm?

@MrThunderfield: If Charlie and Mulder got freaky and some how procreated then Ken Levine would be the result.

@Anselmo:
And Freedom Force 1 & 2
And SWAT 4
And Tribes Vengence

But really being lead designer on one of the greatest pc games ever made (Shock 2) should be enough.

$5 say it will have "Shock" in the title.

Galaxyshock, Godshock, or Steamshock

@PolkOut.com: You forgot "In my opinion."

@Grahamunculus: Bioshock was born in La La Land so show some damn respect! :/

@GorbyGipper: Mario Sunshine?

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): personally, I think he looks like David Duchovny...

@raffleking: Sorry, meant ALMOST a copy/pasta. The storyline was much the same with the exception of the addition of the ethical questions.

I just don't consider it innovative. The ethical part was a simplified good/evil karma system seen in some RPG's placed in a slightly modified storyline.

SanaEquiesterer

@Spoony Bard: Apparently you never played Tribes: Vengeance. Don't worry though, almost no one else has either. It's not even worth pirating.

Piata

@StubbsDK:

...and stealth action was delivered to the masses. Thief was an awesome game and a great contribution to gaming.

GorbyGipper

I was going to write a post about how Bioshock wasn't all that ambitious. It was all about story, theme, setting, AI, combat. I was going to say that it just put outstanding story, exploration, and emotion into a shooter with great combat, customization, and AI and dropped the whole thing into an awesome world and fiction.

Once I got that far into my thought process, I realized that I'm a fucking idiot for forgetting how great Bioshock is on so many levels, and how well those levels all tie together.

Tying all the pieces together for Bioshock and making it work on so many levels was pretty damned ambitious. It's amazing really. A new IP, the story they told, the literary works they tied in, all the little themes here and there in the game world....it's awesome.

I don't have a game of 2007. It's either Mario Sunshine, Halo 3, or Bioshock. That says enough right there.

GorbyGipper

@jandlecack: I definitely agree with you about the lack of innovation. To be fair though, there were definitely some original ideas behind the game which, sadly, weren't executed too well in the finished product.

Prior to Bioshock's release, I watched many of the developer diaries. I can remember Ken Levine saying that "this game will drive a stake through the heart of all the FPS clichés". He talked about how every enemy would be unique, how every item in the game would be logical rather than a floating health pack, how the gameworld would be fully fleshed out with AI life that operates independently of the player. Makeshift weapons could be constructed by random objects laying around. Players were meant to be tasked with difficult moral choices in order to survive. Even the golden rule of FPS, that you can die and then must reload, was said to have been abolished.

All the ideas sounded great in theory. It's a shame that in execution much of the original features were scrapped in favour of a more streamlined game. It was still a great game, but it didn't do anything new.

2c-b

@Anselmo:
What, he's so cocky, the sun doesn't have a right to be in his eyes?

syrantking

Its worth the wait IMO. Whatever it is.

Karma

@cowondinosaur: what is peter molyneux's involvement in heavy rain??

*crossing his fingers* ....please, oh, please, oh, please be a new system shock......!

@Anselmo: he also made thief.....

Is there still whispering that this could be an X-Com game? It would be a game the likes of which I haven't yearned for in a long time.

@Jennacide: Bioshock also employed some innovative game technologies.

Kakkoister

I recently saw him on a History channel special called That's Impossible. I'm pretty sure the episode was called Real Terminators. The strange thing is there was Bioshock footage as part of the special.

Man, every time I see Ken Levine, all I can think of is Charlie from 'It's always Sunny in Philadelphia'.
I want to be interested in what he has to say, but all I can do is imagine him dressed up like Serpico and screaming at a cat.

ChadWardenn

"Ambitiousness takes days, weeks, perhaps even years to cultivate and we feel that we're on the verge of creating the most ambitious game ambitiousness ever ambitiouned!" While he's busy off in la la land I'll be playing Bioshock 2.

Is it just me or does Ken Levine look like Charlie from It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia?

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

Bioshock was not a good game. It was not well written. It was not intelligent or literary.

PolkOut.com

@Paradox me: That's my hope, too.

ooo i like surprises

Francuzzz1010

@homernoy:
I see what you're trying to do, and it's irrelevant. jandlecack brought up the perfectly valid point that Heavy Rain is a very ambitious project. You don't have to have played a game to know that. He's not judging that it's good or bad, which you would have to play to know that.

Heavy Rain could be the most ambitious game of all time, even by Peter Molyneux's standards, and suck balls, much like many of Molyneux's projects, where as Bioshock was not THAT ambitious, but was a great game by many people's standards. In the end of the day, Heavy Rain is more ambitious than Bioshock.

So, TL;DR: you fail, try again.

cowondinosaur

@until.december: Fuck the weather today. I shouldn't have to wear a jacket in the middle of July. Tomorrow is supposed to be a lot better though, thank god.

nukee

@Spoony Bard: You're totally right. If it's not a random 60 degrees out this weekend, I'm gonna try and recreate that photo.

until.december

Can't wait! Ken's a smart guy with a great track record. I hope it's a new property, actually...I'm tired of sequels.

Incidentally I love this photo, which I believe is taken about 30 seconds from where I live in Chicago (he's got the Wrigley and Tribune Buildings behind him).

@jandlecack: I really enjoyed Bioshock and I'll have to say that while it wasn't INNOVATIVE it was ambitious. It was a nearly blatent sequel/spinoff of a fairly old IP that the company making it didn't own the rights to.

Its just a shame that people say the same kind of things about Fallout 3 which WASN'T ambitious OR innovative as Bethesda made no effort to leave the safety zone of first person action rpg hybrids and try and do something the hadn't done before.

Ken Levine is overrated. I don't understand why he has gotten most all the credit for Bioshock's success. The rest of the team had as much to do with it as he did. He really hasn't done anything interesting outside of System Shock/Bioshock. That picture pretty much sums up his ego.

@jandlecack: Agreed. If I were to describe Bioshock in one word, Ambitious wouldn't be in the top 100.

MrKlorox

This would be news if the original Bioshock was ambitious in the first place.

MrKlorox

@jandlecack: The ambition of Bioshock was in the storytelling, nature of the story itself, and the lesser elements that made the whole sum of it's parts so good. Things like the Big Daddies being walking monstrocities that were almost bosses each time you found one with a Little Sister. (Which is subjective, based on difficulty. Play it on hard, and they are TOUGH.)

Jennacide

@SanaEquiesterer: Woaaaah that's kinda a stretch. I mean, yeah there were SOME similarities in basic story arch, but BioShock's innovation in the narrative came from the ethical questions it raised. Not to put down System Shock 2 at all, cause that game is amazing.

The only thing ambitious about bioshock was its aesthetic and setting. Otherwise it was a watered down System Shock 2. So it's good news his new project is more ambitious -- maybe he'll create something original this time.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed bioshock quite a bit. But as an old system shock 2 fan, it didn't quite live up to its heritage, nor did it do anything new for gaming. It became a poster boy for a 'step forward' when it was little more than a fine game.

OmegaVader

If its some sort of subscription based MMO, I'm going to be very disappointed. Seriously, enough is enough already.

Ubersoldat19

@raffleking: The art direction was something else, yes, but an innovative narrative? Not at all. It was practically a copy/pasta from System Shock 2, released eight years prior.

SanaEquiesterer

@homernoy: Hmm? No, not that I know of.

Not yet anyway. :P

jandlecack

System Shock 3 please

TalekAetem

Ken Levine and Todd Howard are my two very favorite game designers and have done incredible things for the industry. Whatever this guy makes, I will buy.

Vault-Droog

@jandlecack: You've played Heavy Rain? Sweet.

homernoy

Just make sure it has a PC release that is simultaneous like last time. Looking foward to it.

homernoy

@jandlecack:I agree. Bioshock is an absolutely excellent game, don't get me wrong, but the only thing even slightly ambitious about the game was the storytelling and narrative or the game

@Grand_Marquis:

Actually, now that I think of it, this is almost like a more eloquent reimagining of John Romero's "bitch" approach to game promotion.

GAH just tell us what it is already! They've been working on it for almost 2 years, they have to have SOMETHING to show us by now!

@jandlecack: Well I'd say BioShock was extremely ambitious/innovative in its narrative and art direction. Hell half of those 40s/50s jams have been completely corrupted for me, and I LOVE that. But you're right. I loved the first and I'll be the first to admit that the actual gameplay elements could get ho-hum at times.

Is it Hubble Space Telescope Hero?

Bioshock 2 never should have happened if these creative people who made it in the first place didnt want to do it...

TheNocturnalSun

@Stormrider: Sadly he is correct. For all intents and purposes, Bioshock WAS System Shock 3.

@M*A*S*H: Why I outta BioClock you!

More ambitious than BioShock?

BioShock was hardly more than a shooter with few RPG elements mixed in, and a pretty good narrative / unique story and setting.

That's not ambitious, that's just an excellent FPS of the modern days.

Ambitious is something like The Last Guardian, Natal, Heavy Rain. Something that is innovative, untested and could go either way. BioShock was relying on many many old proven formulas.

jandlecack

@frostcircus: Yeah, as far as gratuitous video game hype is concerned, I think we've just discovered the next big trend!

@hazelnut - RIP Michael Jackson: It pains me to think that in some multiverse, that actually happens. And sells very well.

I can't wait to see what he reveals! My cousin and I appreciate Ken Levine. (my cousin is fucking obsessed, it's weird.. he has a picture of him under his "heros" section on myspace XD)

TaylorEatWorld

This guy, and the team behind him, have got some massive creative chops, so I'm totally interested to see what they'll come up with. Of course, this is probably just the run up to the hype machine, but Levine has never really struck me as showing symptoms of Molyneux Syndrome (unless...this is early stages?). I'll be interested to see what direction this goes.

As a side note, I'm not sure how I feel about the trend where an innovative team makes a successful initial entry in a series, then hands that series off (whether by choice or by force) to a new developer. Obsidian seems to do that fairly well, but sometimes it doesn't work out too well. I'm still on the fence about BioShock 2, which is a bad sign in and of itself because I loved the first one to death.

@Matt0505:

Don't be silly Matt, this goes far beyond that - this is massive build up from game developers without the slightest bit of information about the game. It's progressive.

@Paradox me: It won't be, System Shock is an EA property and Levine's studio is wholly owned by 2K.

Stormrider

Oh my god. I can already see what he is planning. A game adaptation to the Movie Bio-Dome. Pauly Shore in his stariing role in a video game. Buuuuuudy.

@TheExiledLeader:

I lol'd at the comment, and Levine's picture. He looks like he's going to shit diamonds.

@Paradox me: Be careful what you wish for Hacker.

@Paradox me:

I can't see them leaving the SS franchise to make Bioshock a "spiritual successor" of SS2, only to return again to make a third installment.

ctorrans

More massive build up from game developers? SHOCKING!!

Please, just once I want a quote "Yeah this next game we're doing? Not very good. Shit actually. I'd stay away at all costs."

Matt0505

Only reason he didn't say "soon" is cause its Blizzard trademarked

Okay, heres the thing. Last time someone whom I love said that (Bioware) they broke my heart into a million pieces (Star Wars: The Old Republic).

So forgive me if I cant trust that statement anymore.

Well that won't be very difficult. Much as I admired Bioshock's art direction, the gameplay was more BioSchlock.

*runs screaming into the night, chased by torch wielding mob.*

System Shock 3. Pleeeeease let it be SS3

@gold163 (° д° ): Thief is absolutely the greatest and more innovative stealth franchise. Splinter Cell is second.

Kovitlac

BROTIP: He's doing X-COM.

Tye-The-Czar

Ya never know, maybe 2K bought the rights.... *fingers crossed*

Completely different story though.
Also, although SS2 was critically acclaimed it bearly sold at all. SS2 was part of the reason Looking Glass went tits up - no one bought it.
People says Bio's a copy/paste of SS2 but there hasn't been a game like SS2 since, well.. SS2, which was released how many years ago now?
The majority of FPS's - now that's copy/paste.

Hear, hear

@StubbsDK: Oh god that would be awesome.

@Anselmo: You take that back, right now! :)
Ken L's been involved in many of the most origonal games: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Levine
All this games have scored _very_ highly.

@StubbsDK: I believe he only wrote the story actually. Still awesome though.

Night Man, sneaky and mean. Spider inside my dreams, I think I love you. You make me want to cry, you make me want to die. I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you Night Man. Every night you come into my room and pin me down with your strong arms, And pin me down and I try to fight you, You come inside me and fill me up and I become the Night Man.

CaesarThymoetes

Freedom Force 3!!!!

kneegrow

So basically the release window is whatever the development time for Bioshock was multiplied by however much more ambitious this game is!

Ramonskito

@mfwahwah: he forgot to add the /troll as well, but I think most everyone else caught it.

@gold163 (° д° ): Ss2 wasn't successful(hence no reason to keep trying as ss1 wasn't either), when Bioshock started to get some good buzz going I thought there was a rumor EA was going to do SS3. I doubt they do a great job, but I would probably have bought it.
DeadSpace was good, and possibly as close to ss3 as we'll get from ea... and Deadspace would be a watered down SS2, in the area of gameplay.

@abort_user: there was a rumor of SS3, but that may have been DeadSpace.

You can keep your sentimentally rose coloured glasses and love of clunky rpg mechanics, I saw Bioshock as taking all the core of the SS gameplay and making it much more flexible (you weren't locked into an arbitrary class) and a much much more interesting sorry than the old evil super computer and mutants running amuck.
Not to say I wouldn't love Ss3 if it were more rpg oriented as well, but I think it's insulting to all the very hard design decisions that were made in BS to call it simply watered down.
Keep in mind ss2 was before it's time and for the majority of gamers it's a breath of fresh air, and I'd take an ss2 copy and paste over a lot of what's out today, (and Bioshock wasn't).

@Meocene: I would agree and I think SS2 was great for it's time but the story would be a bit cliche these days, where as Bioshock's feels a bit more interesting and fleshed out. I can definitely see Bioshock being a more matured and streamlined(not watered down) SS2.
I would take any game from these guys that followed the basic template of SS, as that template is better than most other games. I think of Bioshock's success, as a proof that this gamestyle is ready for financial success. SS1 (which had a lot of the same things in it), was well before its time, and one could argue so was SS2 by its sales.
I doubt any of you called SS2 a graphical update of SS1 with the same basic plot, and gameplay. I doubt many of you played it. I remember the demo and being totally lost, myself. Oddly when SS2 came out found out a friend of mine's brother, worked at Looking Glass (this friend was not in any way involved with gaming even as a hobby), and that year another friend gave me an xmas gift of a framed concept drawing from SS1. It was an odd coincidence, as it probably was in the office where my friend's brother worked, and we were not even in the same state.

I hope he's not pulling a Molyneux on us.

@gold163 (° д° ): I agree, I thought they streamlined alot of clunky things from System Shock 2, ad the story is so much better. SS2 was great in it's day but the plot would be pretty cliche now.
Also the thing you have to remember is that SS2 was a financial failure, and the fact that something so close to it was a hit this time means :
a. gaming has come a long way and
b. We don't have to be stuck with Halo and GOW formulas.
I was amazed and delighted Bioshock did as well as it did.

@ChadWardenn: Edit: Double Post

lolomfgisuck

@ChadWardenn: Maybe this is the Nightman game we've all been waiting for.

lolomfgisuck