Dev: DSi Is “A More Powerful Platform” Than DS Lite

@bjorked: I used to think the same thing when playing Playstation. I was pretty sure I was the only one who thought that graphics didn't get where developers wanted them to be until the Dreamcast.

I vividly remember playing In The Zone and thinking "That's Clyde Drexler...with a face made of 4 distinct sides." Then, when I played Gran Turismo I thought "This looks pretty much like cars made out of grain."

LetItRane

@Slagathorian: No, they're limited IN SIZE by the cart's storage limit. That doesn't affect a system's power, only how much space-taking crap can be stored in each game.

And compression weighs in heavily, to boot.

@Daniel @ playreadwrite.blogspot.com: Get a 1st generation DS off ebay, and then get a DSi. It's not the cheapest solution, but it has it's advantages.

@psycoking:

I understand that, but it'll have to happen eventually. There have already been enough comparisons made to the GBC era. Once the DSi has enough market share developers will consider it.

It just seems somewhat silly to announce that there will be exclusive titles, and then nothing is produced three month later despite the announcement.

@deanbmmv: Even I could understand that. What he meant to say Slagathorian is that because the DSi uses DS lite cartridges it's limited in storage size (despite being a more powerful system). Similarly the 360 is limited due its use of DVDs as opposed to the similarly powerful PS3 which is less limited due to its use of blu-ray discs.

Can you understand now?

@luxfluxio: "The term "gamer" doesn't even mean anything anmore seeing everyone has a wii.I have a wii.."

I believe we are through here. You may see yourself out the door. Thank you for your time.

I will buy it if there's a really good game that only runs on it and not DS. Maybe better: I will wait for another revision, because probably there will be a DS 2 when that said game appears.

Man in the mirror

@bean is all work and no play: It's not region locked in terms of cartridges. My copy of Jump Ultimate Stars works fine on my friend's DSi

@Closure:HOMOSEXUALS!? Where!?

†FunkBrothaDee†

@Atomsk88: Finally, logic!

@luxfluxio: I'm sorry that you and Nintendo broke up, but there's no reason to be all grouchy about it on the interweb.

To be fair, the one thing that does bother me about the DSi is "region locked" but the DS was not (for the most part).

@SaanZ:
chrono trigger was 4Mbytes. 23 mb is not too little. developers are just too lazy.

ChrisAshtear

@Ferkner: no, it would be 'adequate' if they bothered with bilinear filtering. if it had that then it would be adequate. why they continue to leave such a thing out that would make the game look worlds better is beyond me

ChrisAshtear

@Odin: The DSi is 2.0. It has 2x the processing power of the DS, a completely overhauled firmware, and we will see DSi only games eventually. I think everyone saying the DSi sucks are butthurt people who bought the DS Lite.

Skyman747

@Lokno: The DSi has 2x the power of the DS Lite. Exclusives will appear. I just can't believe the logic of the fucktards who upgraded to DS Lite, but call the DSi pointless.

Skyman747

@mistersneak: exactly. i don't mind if DSi versions get a bit of extra graphic flare, but as soon as you start putting exclusive games out, you limit your market to just version of the DS.

curly haired boy

And a little bit less idiocy too.

@Slagathorian: Unfortunately, you can't store saves on CDs, so I'm not sure how that's relevant.

@excel_excel: Until they add an SD card channel ala the Wii I prefer that they keep the limit low. At the moment, DSiWare needs to be on the DSi's internal memory to run. I don't want to have to swap shit around every time I want to play something new.

@ManicMailman: A bit of spacing would have helped too.

gercorr

@Slagathorian: I think they needed it for DSiWare. Some aspects of the store and browser are slow enough as it is. I was surprised to find out that there is no Opera Turbo in the DSi's browser, so Opera Mini on my phone (over EDGE) is considerably faster than my DSi using Wifi. That is SLOW.

@Slagathorian: Seriously, you're going to argue that the Playstation is more powerful than the DSi?

The original DS was pretty much on par with the original Playstation, both that clocked in at about 33 MHz when it came to processing power, though at times the DS could go a little higher.

As far as RAM, please! We're talking about devices with generation gaps, of course the latest device will have more RAM.

The Playstation's main RAM was at 2MB, while the original DS' RAM was at 4MB. A home console from 1995 versus a handheld from 2004, laughable

Now the original DS couldn't quite compete with the N64, because even though they had about as much RAM, the N64 still had more processing power. I mean, the N64 did have the best CPU of the fifth generation after all.

The DSi however, in terms of processing power and RAM, can surpass the N64. The DSi has been clocked at about 133 MHz, whereas the N64 couldn't even reach 100 MHz. Heck, the N64 only had 8MB of RAM with the Expansion Pak whereas the DSi has 16MB of RAM.

Now, unless you mistook Cochese and thought he was referring to the actual PSX from 2003, I think that should about cover it.

Atomsk88

@luxfluxio:
Please, make usage of the built-in spell checker when commenting. Then we'll be sure not to see words such as gayn, anmore, doen't and let's not forget senseing (though it was the verb for being a sensei )

Good day.
I SAY GOOD DAY.

ManicMailman

@Slagathorian: Can you just clarify the main point you are trying to make here.
We all know the DS uses DS carts. We know they go from 6MB to 256MB. We know DQIX only has 1 save and no matter how much processing power the DSi has it won't change the fact that the DS cart can only hold a certain amount of data so its out of the DSi's hand.

@MechanicalMind: Why would Nintendo have opted to make those internal changes? No games can take advantage of them or they wouldn't be backwards compatible.

I'm confused.

@deanbmmv: Wow....

Just Wow...


The 360 chose the DVD as its format.
Just like Nintendo, chose the DS cartridge as its format. Ergo, games are limited by the DS.

I really don't see whats so hard to understand.

@MechanicalMind:

Blog =/= News site

notquitedeadyet

@Dark_Mirage: Probably won't happen outside of DSWare titles unless its a camera based game. This has more to do with market share than power. It would be better to create a title that works on all DSs rather than limit your possible audience to the much smaller install base of DSi owners.

psycoking

It has already been documented that the DSi has 4x the RAM and 2x the CPU power.
How is this news?

MechanicalMind

STTTTTIIIIIILLLLLL waiting for those DSi exclusive titles! We've already known about the stronger specs for ages. This is definitely nothing new to hear.

What I WOULD like to hear is that a developer is actually creating an exclusive game that's going to look better than a standard DS game because of the DSi's extra horsepower. At the moment, all anyone seems to be doing is "considering it".

Ubisofts half assed titles with additional features simply don't count.

@Slagathorian: No you we're implying that the DSi didn't have the ability to have extra save slots. when its the cart that limits that. The DSi IS more powerful than the DSlite, but your still limited by the storage size. as an example of an opposite: PS3 and 360 are roughly same in power, but the 360 is limited by the DVD.

@Ferkner: it's about n64 quality(psone can output more polys but not as nice effects fyi)... Adequate for a handheld? These days, barely..
the iphone and psp can do rings around it for certain. But like the wii, fun is not all about Polygons and pixel shaders..

@deanbmmv: That was my original point, there are hardware limitations.

@retronaut: I'm looking at buying a new DS unit and passing my old DS Lite down to my brother who needs one badly. I just can't decide whether I want that GBA slot or the DSiware downloads.

@SentryOmega: I'm in the opposite boat, I own over 150 DS games yet have yet to play a single one of them for more than a few hours. I just hate the touch screen, especially holding the system in one hand when its those cursed touch only games. The graphics and processing power don't bother me, but I'm also not going to go around talking about how awesome they are, because lets be honest, they are not.

@Cochese: Sabotage is an epic video...: The DS is not a "far more capable" system than the PSX. I would like to see some stats on that.

@luxfluxio: luxfluxio: whats with all the gay panic? are you a bigot or just a little boy with weak communication skills? Ninty is "marketing it to queers" and you bought one! Grow up and lose the phobic attitude.

@The Forgetful Brain: If you already have a GBA in some form, then the only thing you'd really be missing besides games like Guitar Hero that use peripherals is transferring Pokémon from GBA to DS games (which not everyone's interested in).

Ampere

luxfluxio: whats with all the gay panic? are you a bigot or just a little boy with weak communication skills? Ninty is "marketing it to queers" and you bought one! Grow up and lose the phobic attitude.

@Slagathorian: The carts come in variable sizes. But there is an upper limit of 256mb. and DQIX hit that limit. It's an RPG what did you expect.
It sucks, but thats hardware limitations for you.
DVD caps at 9GB, nowt you can do about it except go ot the next gen of media storage. and it will be the same with the carts, when the next handheld hits expect a cap of 16GB or so.

@Lokno: The DSiWare stuff, but that doesn't compare to the instant trading between Pearl and ruby :D

@gercorr: HOLY SHI.....wait...ohohoho you!

@excel_excel:
The DSi has split the DS market. Despite being essentially the same console the DSi has games available for it that the DS doesn't. Splitting the market for SKU's is a fools move, just makes the current install base feel cheated.

I'd have much less issue with the DSi if it was a DS 2.0 rather than a 1.2 - 1.5

Odin

@Slagathorian: or maybe MMMAAAYBBBEEE, it was desicion by Square Enix to sell more copies?

@excel_excel: The DSi is 5 times more powerful than the DS lite! Its got a cell processor, it just hasn't been fully utalized by the developers yet. Oh and it'll definitely have a 10 year lifespan

gercorr

@luxfluxio:
Gotta love it when people try and argue with cold hard facts. Numbers are numbers kid, your opinion will not change them. I don't have to like the DSi but I'm grudgily forced to admit that twice the CPU clock speed and 4x the RAM means it is more powerful.

Odin

@SentryOmega: Don't worry you won't get trashed. PSP fanboys say that about DS whenever they can. I disagree about the excellent looking games being medicore though. Crisis Core looks wonderful and plays very good, as do plenty of other games like Patapon and Loco Roco!
but why would you buy a PSPgo when you have a PSP that will play all those PSP downloadable games anyway?

@luxfluxio: No sorry your wrong. Its twice the power of the DS lite. No propaganda about it.

@excel_excel: I haven't played the game myself, but I completely agree. You can tell some game devs don't put out the same quality stuff that others do.

I might get trashed for this but owning an original PSP and a DS Lite, I found myself almost never playing the PSP. The type of games offered on the DS appealed to me much more (mainly story, but not to say the PSP doesn't have a bunch of great games). I kept seeing a lot of excellent looking PSP games with mediocre gameplay early on (and still today), so I was a bit turned off. With the PSP Go coming out, on one side I really want to buy one because they announced a whole bunch of games I really want to play, on the other hand it's a bit pricey. However, I think I could get over that if I was sure I'd play it all the time unlike before. I still hate Sony Memory sticks though!

SentryOmega

@Slagathorian: Pocket....petz monsters?

It's great that DSi's got more under the hood, but it doesn't matter if developers aren't able to utilize it because they're still selling to Lite and Phat users. it's just not profitable.

I'd have been sold on DSi if not for a lack of GBA slot, as well.

@Slagathorian: Actually, the DS is a far more capable system than the original playstation. Which was surpassed in power by the N64. Which isn't even as powerful as the DS. Not that it matters though.

@Ferkner: The hardware does not allow for a 128 MB cap on its games?

@kner:

Im sure it'll be expanded in the future as well

@Ferkner: *sigh
As I've said adequate is subjective. I think that neither the PSP or DS have given us "adequate" 3D graphics. I'm not saying its not possible, but having tried to play FF3, and the FF4 remake on the DS, well lets just say they should have kept the graphics the same.

@excel_excel: YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE SIDES MAN!!

which are you, the Petz or Pokemon?

Propagandish bullcrap!The DSi is nothing more than a dslitre but with a slicghtly wider screen and very, VERY shit cameras.Just because every gayn n00b gamer will want that sort of crap, does nintendo think were gonna be taking this shit anymore?The term "gamer" doesn't even mean anything anmore seeing everyone has a wii.I have a wii and although the controlls are cool and all none of the games are that fun.I'm sorry but I serioulsy think if nintendo doesn't sort out the crap they've made by not even properly thinking out the sort of games they were gonna' make with a motion senseing controller.It's one thing to put technology in mass production but it's another to market it wisely.Just because they make alot of money marketing it to queers doen't mean I like nintendo anymore.

@RockyRan:

Pasted from bablefish English to PR: "Sorry, Band Hero isn't on DSi but we've got faster and stronger things in stock for you guys. Because you are worth it."

Fabrice

@tehdorkz: With the exception of most N64 games, VC should be easily done on DSi.

@kner: Ah yeah I know but still, 23mb is too little. Way too little.

@tehdorkz: Uh....how does that split the market?!

@Farnic: Ah cool thanks!

@Slagathorian: Every term is subjective. However, his expectation of things seems to be a little high, instead of appreciating what the DS, or any other console can do. Adequate to me would be PSone quality: 3D characters and worlds that function well even though they look like crap. Not even. They could look worse and still be adequate. Star Fox is adequate 3D to me. Had bjerked said excellent 3D graphics, he might have a point. But the DS renders more than adequate 3D graphics for a handheld.

Ferkner

@superberg:
The way I would rank the 3 services would be that
• PSN has the most creative/experimental content on it.
• Live has the most 'must have' games on it.
• WiiWare has the most games worth buying on it (but most of them just aren't quite as good as the Must Have games on Life)

I'm tired of all that bullshit, stfu plzkthxbye

Blitzgrilo

@excel_excel:

Actually there are 2 games out there already that have additional features when played in a DSi, however they are both not really the best games. The front of the packaging on the bottom actually has a decent size box that tells consumers it has more features in a DSi, so be on the lookout for more games with that box on the front.

@excel_excel:
"This. I'm sick of seeing it every article"

Its an article about how powerful the DSi is, where else should people be gripping about its graphics?

@retronaut: Me too. I doubt much is really going to surface that is DSi only.

@Ferkner: The term adequate is subjective. Meaning if bjorked thinks that the DS's 3d graphic rendering capabilities aren't good enough, he can use any bloody adjective he wants.


And no, no it isn't better than what the PSX put out.

@The Forgetful Brain:
I say go with the DSi. The Lite is going to be phased out sooner or later and it's inevitable that DSi only games are coming. Nintendo has, I believe, said as much already.

Future proofing, and all that.

Just bought a DS lite - coz I want my GBA slot and the better brighter displays.

@excel_excel: Pokemon and games that aren't Pokemon?

or maybe Pets, Imagine, Dreamer, etc. games and Other games?

@excel_excel:

23MB is plenty for a handheld downloadable game.

Etrian Odyssey 2, a great commercial DS game, is only 21MB.

kner

@excel_excel: Yeah, if Nintendo ever gives us what we want (Virtual console on the DSi) then the regret for buying the DSlite will set in.

@The Forgetful Brain: At first I thought the DSi was a real joke, the cameras were really stupid (and I still think that tbh). And I just felt the whole thing was filled with gimmicks. Then, I had a chance to go hands on with a DSi and the following day, I bought one. The screens make a huge difference and it feels a lot more sturdy than the DSlite. The volume buttons and power button replacing the sliders make a big difference as well. Definitely go with the DSi.

@Ferkner: This. I'm sick of seeing it every article. Look at how great DQ IX looks!

@The Forgetful Brain: Right now theres not even been a retail game released that takes advantage of the DSi. I'd go for the Lite, its cheaper and still lets you play your GBA games and use the second slot for accesories such as the Guitar Hero thingie

@The Forgetful Brain: That's really up to you. I chose a DSi over a Lite because I figured in the long run I would like to have to option of buying DSiWare games. As it stands though, there isn't much of a worthy difference between the two, aside from the $40 price difference. That $40 is a new game, possibly two used ones. The cameras are okay to mess around with, and the music player plays AAC files only; they're good to have but I don't think they'd satisfy you if they're your selling points. So, you should be thinking about the price difference and DSiWare when making your decision.

@Slagathorian: What he is saying is that DQ IX is so large that there wasn't room for a second save slot. It has nothing to do with the hardware, since tons of other games have multiple save slots.

Ferkner

@bjorked: Yes it can. I think you mistake the word adequate with top-notch. The 3D the DS spits out is just fine, especially for a handheld. It's a hell of a lot better than what the PSone put out.

Ferkner

@UnkleBuck: I disagree, the cartridge the game comes on is the only cartridge that the DS can take, its not exactly as if the DSi can take CD's now is it? What you're saying makes no sense.

And the pricing issues are a result of the platform they chose. If they wanted to charge 70$ for it, they should have went the PS360 route, and if they wanted to charge 50, they should have went the wii route.

@NeoStarr HD: Although, what tells you it is specifically the RAM that is the problem?

Janxer

Question:

Now that freaking SMT is coming to DS, I have got to buy one.

DSlite or DSi?

I've been thinking DSlite, but then articles like this come along...

The Forgetful Brain

@Odin: No more splitting the DS market any more than it already has been.
How has it?

@superberg: The difference is that Wii developers don't have to support GameCube owners, as DS/DSi developers do.

Making a hybrid DS/DSi game that leverages the faster processor/ extra RAM requires a lot of duplicate code and assets that eats precious space on the cartridge, resulting is less content overall.

It's not an issue with DSiWare, or if some developer wants to turn their backs on 12+ million DS owners to release a DSi-only game.

@MR. FAP☆FAP! the Anal Probing Grey...: 23mb? thats the bloody problem. How are devs meant to take advantage of that extra power for DSiware games when they have such little space to use must be difficult

@Mokka: Most DSiWare isn't really resource-intensive even for regular-DS-game standards, let alone DSi standards.

RockyRan

Bad developers! No more splitting the DS market any more than it already has been. Though really Nintendo is primarily to blame for that. It's really not cool to be releasing games that only work on one SKU even though it's fundamentally the same product.

Odin

@excel_excel:
I think it's 23MB, but I can't remember for sure. It's in the 20 MB range, at least.

So powerful, and still can't render adequate 3D graphics...

bjorked

Aaaand we don't care, cause it costs a lot :]

I have a DS Lite, and I love it. But what do you want us to do? Buy a DSi? No thanks.

I don't own a PSP, and if I had to choose between that and a DSi, I'd chose the PSP hands down. Much better graphics, cool games, and it's cheaper. (And it's not like the PSgo is in any way better than the 3000 model, sooo... no thanks, Nintendo..)

Maybe out of the box it's more powerful, but there have been unlicensed slot-2 RAM cartridges for years; some go up to 32 megs (8x more powerful than the DS). If Nintendo had simply created a licensed one and made them more accessible, then there would be no contest that the DS would have the most potential in terms of power.

NeoStarr HD

@UnkleBuck: Meant to just promote yours :P

Anyone know what the size limit of DSiware is?

@fdisk: Really until the DSiWare shop actually has more than a select few short games to get than there is no reason to get a DSi over a normal DS/Lite for a long while

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_DSi
Straight from Wikipedia, my internet friends.
16mb RAM compared to the DS Lite's 4mb.
Also the DSi's main CPU is 133mhz, while the DS Lite's is 67 mhz. Theoretically, the DSi is more than twice as powerful as its predecessor.

Of course, due to backwards compatibility problems, I'm not really surprised we haven't seen any awesome DSi only games that take advantage of its power, is it would alienate -most- DS owners.

@Ladi: That, my friend, is seven kinds of awesome. Or in this case (heh), I guess, nine kinds of awesome.

@Eran:
I've looked around on Steam a few times before, but I haven't seen anything on it that I can't get on the other DL services for cheaper that I'm interested in. I mean seriously — $20 bucks for World of Goo?

So...I'm open to suggestions if there's anything on Steam that I'm missing out on!
For the record, my gaming tastes tilt toward Nintendo/Sega/Japanese developed stuff.

@Slagathorian: ... which is due to the cartridge the game comes on and the resulting pricing issues, not the hardware the game plays on. Honestly, if you're going to try and troll, at least put some effort it, eh?

UnkleBuck

@Slagathorian: It's just like the Wii was to the GameCube: Same processor, but faster, and with more RAM. It's not like a full generational leap, but it is more capable.

@Eran: Steam doesn't run on consoles, though. I agree that it is a great platform (and the only reasons I use BootCamp on my Mac), but I'm pretty sure he was referring to consoles. In which case, I'd agree. Live has a greater variety of products, but PSN seems to be more experimental for the most part.

well duh!! Why do they need a statement to show this?! People just need to check the specs between the 2 platforms and voila!!

Carmin Pierre

@RockyRan: Yes, the DSi is more powerful. It has 4 times the RAM and 2 times the processor speed. There is no doubt that it is more powerful that its predecessor.

But, you're right, it'll be like the N64 RAM expansion. Only some games will take advantage of it because you still have to support the other hardware configuration. No one wants to put a sticker that says "Only works on DSi!"

DSiWare titles are the ones that could ralley take advantage of this, because the regular DS/DS Lite can't download them. But then they're restricted by size, so you can't be horribly impressive.

If anything, again like the N64 RAM expansion, 3D games could take the higher specs and add higher res textures, or higher quality characters, but I can't see it changing the gameplay much, as much as I'd like it to.

Malthius

@MR. FAP☆FAP! the Anal Probing Grey...: No WAY! Steam is the superior service for creative content.
Then again, it's the cheapest to develop for :P

@Kuwabara Kazuo: I believe so, yes.

I just bought my first DS last week and it's a DSLite, I do not regret my decission.

@RockyRan: How could they make it more powerful? Then games built for the DSi wouldn't work on the Ds lite or phat.

So powerful that they couldn't even fit in a second save slot on DQ9.

I was really excited for the DSiWare shop at first, and figured that if I was going to upgrade to a DSi, that would be the reason.
...so far, though, there isn't exactly anything on DSiWare worth buying the system for.

*sigh*. It's been as much of a letdown as WiiWare has been, really. What's really crazy to think about is that, in my opinion, the PSN probably has the most creative content on it, even it's it's far and away the most expensive service to develop for supposedly.

@globones: But I love Dragon Quest. The darkness is consuming me. Must upgrade. Though for now, upgrading is like installing a camera?

In other words Developers, prove the newer version is stronger. Don't give us numbers, show us games that push the limit of the DSI.

@RockyRan: Since only the DSi supports the online store it's an option for EVERY downloadable game, so why shouldn't companies make use of it?

Mokka

@Ladi:Cool case. Is that a crystal/transparent case?

@RockyRan: That's what I was thinking, newer systems are always sold as being more "powerful" but rarely does anyone back that up. Hopefully someone actually gives us a game that will have many of us wondering how the heck it's possible to run that on the DSI.

@Outkastprince:

don't do it!

I'll believe it when I see enough to make me want to buy one.

PSPgo, I'm looking at you too!

How is this guy not talking in circles while masturbating to a handheld his company barely supports?

@Ladi: That is beautiful, tempted to upgrade my DS Lite into a DSI just for that case alone.

@Ladi: Wow, that's an impressive case. Cyborg slime!

pressstart

Well it definitely feels more like a real console as opposed to my old DS Phat

These are proven developers, I'll have to take their word on it. I'm curious on how they could use this horsepower to implement the DSI camera into gameplay.

So the DSi is more powerful. Uh, didn't we already know this? Looks like Vicarious Visions is stating something that was kind of obvious. It's like Rare going "Yep. The 360 is more powerful than a Wii."

Now, one thing that I do have to say is the fact that upgrades in hardware like this very rarely amount to games that actually take advantage of said upgrade. A few developers (including Nintendo) will get on board, but for the most part third parties are not going to want to split their potential userbase just to take advantage of marginally-better hardware. The same thing happened with the N64 memory expansion.

RockyRan

The DSi makes me sad because its existence means there is no bitching DQIX case for the Lite.

(Image courtesy of 1UP)