Dragon Quest IX Is Gonna Be Hard, Yo

I'm really excited for the boss of the game. Akira Toriyama always pulls off a really cool end-boss for these games.

RevengaSweet

@cwbys21: err didn't xii have non-random encounters?

xblindx

Hard?

That's a bad thing. This just means that we'll have more unnecessary grinding.

-Xehanort

@xblindx: seeing as how I despise random encounters, yes, I would prefer that. Don't know why more jrpgs don't, the earliest I can remember seeing it done that way was Earthbound on the snes and it just seemed backwards for games coming out not to have it.

cwbys21

I think one problem is when people go from Final Fantasy to Dragon Quest and forget about status effect spells which almost always work in Dragon Quest games and are fun to use.

billysan

@Marrvia: Yeah it's so cool when you're all "I grinded for EIGHT hours, not four like in those sissy games"

Hard, grindable RPGs is dumb.

MonsterKingRen

Fuck. JRPG's rarely ever get difficulty right, not even the big budget ones like this. They rarely find that balance and end up being frustrating because of cheap attacks or overwhelming amounts of random encounters. FFIX had a great balance, but FFXII is one of the biggest offenders actually, the difficulty and pacing were all over the place in that game. DQVIII almost had a perfect balance, so hopefully DQIX will have a similar level of balance.

@cwbys21: would it help if we placed your encounters on the screen?

xblindx

@danny8k: you forget some ppl are masochists (like me!). shinobi and nightshade/kunoichi on the ps2 was hard as balls, but definitely satisfying once you got the hang of things.

xblindx

why?

Elsmooth

@kerihobo:Yeah. It's a shame isn't it? For people, who let the fact it's on a portable keep them from enjoying it.

@noslackjaw: i think i'm like the only other person that agrees with you. all of your points are perfectly valid and have a lot of substance to them. i relate immensely.

@Rinaldus:

Its all about the Metal Wing Boomerang.

@jookie: Yes I agree. Loved "Beyond the Beyond" even though everyone seems to hate it.

One data save slot? Common that's just being douchy

kagebutsu

Guh. I don't want a video game to reward me for grinding, I want it to be rewarding to play.

I'll still buy DQIX, but I guess I won't have as much fun with it.

HalcyonX12

@mfwahwah: I love hard games. You get a much bigger sense of accomplishment when you beat them. Now if they had only made this game on a home console, it would be a day 1 purchase for me. I hope it gets ported to Wii.

Marrvia

@noslackjaw: "a book making you reread a chapter because you aren't reading fast enough, or a movie restarting because your attention to detail is lacking"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA THAT'D B SO FUNNY HAHAHAHAHA NICE

kerihobo

im getting so pissed off at what COULD BE great titles comin out on these pissy portable consoles ><

kerihobo

@Rinaldus: i found it started off a little tricky, but as i got more abilities and options i didnt really have any issues. if nothing else, i dont think i died a single time playing through it.

@noslackjaw: Re-reading may be necessary for you, but not for others. If you can't comprehend it, that's your problem. Likewise, if you can't beat a gameplay section, that's your problem. You're not the only one playing a game or reading a book. Since you have put out hypothetical examples of reading and writing, relating them to difficulty, I suggest you read the short story "Harrison Bergeron" by Kurt Vonnegut.

@UltimatePancakeSensation:

It was harder than I was used to, coming from RPGs like Final Fantasy, but once you got that you couldn't just auto-attack, and that you might have to heal and potions every once in a while, then it wasn't that bad. The only part that I didn't finish was the Dragovian Trials.

greatslack

@tim rogers: lol that would be hilarious.

You heard Shibuya Tsutaya is having some launch thing too?

I think I'll pass then

playing games is not serious business to me

@jookie: So you like it hard, eh?

@elmorepow: Who cares about you? they made it better for the Dragon Quest fans!

Word?

@dipsetboy17: Meh only the first few dungeons where hard in DQ8 even then I never got my entire party wiped out except once in the first dungeon.

billysan

I don't think this is a great idea.

The series has never been know has being hard.

Maybe he just means more grinding.

Or maybe there just upping the difficulty to encourage people to play online.

billysan

@mcderek3000: unfortunately yes. I want to play the game, not run around in circles waiting for the next random encounter for 15-20 hours to beat the game.

cwbys21

@chamoo232: actually, janapese devs up the difficulty when sending a game to America. At least that is what Capcom said when they release DMC3 as to why it was so damn difficult and why they toned it down for the special edition.

cwbys21

@xblindx: I agree it was pretty rewarding, but after seeing the good ending I almost wish I saved at least 10 hours by playing on Normal.

@dipsetboy17:

I really didn't find 8 to be that hard. Though the last guy in the Dragovian trials is pretty hard...

7 was pretty hard, Hell Cloud didnt fuck around.

@rabidkeebler: I had the same problem with DQ8 near the end, although I loved the game. But I believe it's more like the "stop playing an RPG all of a sudden syndrome" that I have.

@jookie: Crisis Core on hard more was SO hard, but medium was too easy. :'(, I got frustrated at that.

yes. God I want to be driven hard into the ground by this! USE MY BODY AND MY SOUL SQUARE ENIX! USE THEM!

@Prophane33: i think i beat it in around 75 hours also. i didn't mean in kind of hard that ghost and goblins or ninja gaiden are, but in a balanced kind of way that i really enjoyed.

@(Zombie) Neteher: i mean not hard in a frustrating kind of way, but in a satisfying kind of way.

@QuigleyHamster: What, too hard?

@Rinaldus: Is VIII really considered hard? As luck would have it, I've never played a DQ game before and just logged 40 hours on DQVIII this weekend; so far I haven't found it to be super hard, and I'm loving it.

@galewind: you should play v instead!

@Witzbold: hey witzbold want to troll akihabara with me on launch day?

apparently all the stores are going to open at 7am!

@Vidunder: Wait, you thought Lost Odyssey was hard? My only complaint about LO was that is was soooooo easy. Honestly, every boss after the second I didn't come close to dying.

outlawauron

As long as there is plenty of areas to explore, I will more than likely fight enough monsters to take on most challenges without grinding-to-win.

@nkxjakfhda: This was announced years ago as the DS was selling obscene amounts of hardware. The Wii is going to get Dragon Quest X, though.

@Rinaldus: Perhaps you mismanaged your characters? Personally, I found that spreading out my weapon points over multiple types leaves you less powerful than simply focusing on one specialty (axes, swords, knives, etc.).

It also helps that I tried to explore every nook and cranny thus leading to more battles and XP/gold.

I'm game. Bring it on DQ, bring. It. On.

Hearing this is music to my ears I love good and hard games, Etrian Odyssey I and II,Dark Spire and Nocturne come to mind as games that make me love good hard difficulty even more.

artraider

@PossibleCabbage: I usually hate the 'grind-fest' ideas that come with a lot of JRPG's, but ever since I played Dragon Warrior Monsters when I was 8, this series has been the only exception.

Sean MacLean

Sorry, but hard is not the same thing as strong enemies, DQ always use brute force, the enemies are hard? Go grind, its not like others true hard RPGs where you need to use strategies and know the system to take the max of it and beat the foes instead of a tedious grinding

OrtenseDemophon

you guys are wussies. whats the point of playing a game when you can plow through it effortlessly in a day or two? challenge is a fading aspect of things today

@Rinaldus: Are you serious? DQVIII is the easiest one in the series.

Fodase

Hmm. DQIX is going to be hard, eh? Sign me up for it! I must be one of the few people that don't mind grinding for many hours. To me, grinding is like a form of leisure time you can just spend in a game. It's not really excruciating for me, at least. In fact, it almost feels like a sport to me! Almost.

This is going to be a Day 1 buy for me, still. It's not like this is going to be the most difficult game in the world. There were other games much harder than this as I recall. >_>

@Prophane33: Why are you people calling them dragon quest and not dragon warrior? Meh, kids these days.

Dragon Warrior 2 is still the hardest.

@omyard:

The mountain, fear the mountain!

@Ueziel:

My only problem is I get bored grinding. I put so much time into DQ8, and I never actually got around to beating it even though I was roughly 85% done. I may pick it up again some day.

rabidkeebler

@dipsetboy17: Having played every Dragon Quest game and remake ever made. I'm pretty surprised that so many people here are saying that VIII was even remotely difficult. The only part that I had difficulty was the final boss, and 2 levels worth of grinding later I had no problem. I think the total time it took me was 75-80 hours. Games like DQ VI and even III at times were much more difficult.

Getting this game on Day 1, If it's as difficult as their making it out to be, then I'll definitely be the first to say "it's too hard" as I actually am not a fan of difficult games.

Prophane33

@elmorepow: Wuss.

MARl0

@bloggerX: Aww sucks meant to type "damn awful"!

bloggerX

@Zolbrod: Don't forget that dawn awful framerate, forcing me to "cheat"!

bloggerX

@Zunnoab: Yeah man, it's such a low blow to expect gamers to play this multiplayer game with other people on their own cartridge instead of letting them borrow it.

If you have a friend interested enough to play it, make them buy it and play it with them.

@Lapoisse: Though if you still need to meet lv reqs anyways or the exploits wont have much meaning anyways.

You guys complaining on 8's difficulty? You guys never played 7. THAT GAME WAS HARD, and it wasn't just GRIND SO YOU CAN MEET THE LEVEL AND EQ REQ. no that shit was really hard and i loved it for it.

Kovski

@Orian: Less so in a JRPG when the game is less about tactics and more about grinding.

@Ueziel: I agree, but I'm always a little worried when developers decide to make games difficult just to be similar to previous releases. There is a fine line between challenging as well as rewarding and frustrating, and some games nail it and some don't.

I love Contra 4 and Prinny, but found Shinobi for the ps2 and MegaMan 9 to be enjoyable until I got to some parts that were impossible for me and that ruined the experience.

I hope they get it right on this title since I'm excited about it, and at least being a RPG there is always the chance to progress by doing some grinding.

Masterpain22

@chamoo232: Same, I can deal with grinding even thought it slows the game down. It's when I have to find some obscure item or talk to someone incredibly out of the way.

Take the incredibly annoying Lost Sanctum in Chrono Trigger DS for example. If the game is filled with crap like that I'll pass.

omyard

@QuigleyHamster: +1

njd09

@surft: Nocturne, along with most SMT and Persona games, are hard as hell, but also very fun.

The main difference between DQ and Atlus games is that Atlus lets you exploit weaknesses and strengths, while DQ forces you to overpower your opponents.

I'm personally sold to the DQ formula, as beating Doulmagus the 1st time in DQ8 was probably the most satisfying win I've ever had in an RPG. I like my turn-based RPG's old-school, and DQ is as old-school as it gets.

Lapoisse

Ever played smt:nocturne? that game was sweet hell for me. And I hope DQIX can match it once it comes out.

@danny8k: While that statement may have a lot of truth to it, what equates to frustration to you may be a fun challenge to another. In this case, I'm quite sure most Japanese will find any of the DQ games to be the latter.

@Fernando Jorge:

"No that analogy to books is wrong. Video games are not books, they are video games. You don't buy a video game for plot alone, you buy for the gameplay."

Some buy for both, and some for one or the other. The difference is that plot never prevents a player from going forward with the gameplay, even in really egregiously plotty games (like MGS 3). But gameplay halts players in their tracks all the time. That's a problem. No facet of the experience should derail the rest.

"A game is pointless if there's no risk of losing. If there's no defeat there's no win, and if none of those things are there, then it isn't a game, it's a toy."

It's up to the individual to decide what's pointless -- I like my difficulty at times, too, but other times I just want to wail on something and let off some steam. Sometimes I go through a game on easy, then normal, then hard, then very hard etc. (Guitar Hero comes to mind). If the game's easiest setting had been 'very hard' I'd have stopped playing it.

There's no reason a game at the easiest can't be very, very easy, and at the hardest be very, very hard. Let the player pick his difficulty level. Don't force it.

"And you can be the greatest writer ever, but some complex ideas will be hard to convey and might require multiple reads. Some great movies are so great because of their subtlety, because of what different things you can capture on repeated views, because their ideas are so complex and interesting that they can generate discussion. Demanding everything to be easy for you to digest is lazyness."

*sigh* This really isn't that complicated.

You're correct that viewers and readers pick up more on subsequent views, but this proves my point, not yours. The viewer/reader can *willingly* watch/read the work again to glean more from a good film/book. If the viewer/reader doesn't choose to do so -- most films and books simply aren't worth the extra effort -- then he doesn't have to.

HAMLET is a great example -- some scholars have built careers off of analyzing and critiquing that play. But it never forces it subtlety, never attacks the reader with a questionairre at the end of the chapter to gauge their comprehension skills. It's simply there for anyone with average English skills to read and glean the general story. More interested readers can dig deeper.

Same with games. I'm not at all against harder difficulties or games that bear repeated playings -- I go through games on harder difficulties all the time. But if I can't get through the first time on the easiest difficulty despite repeated tries, then the designer is doing the unthinkable: taking gaming's greatest asset, interaction, and converting it into a curse. That's terrible, terrible fail.

noslackjaw

@tim rogers: !!! Wheeeeeeee

Awesome I always look forward to a good challenge.

Anyone who is crying isnt a fan anyways.

@dipsetboy17:

DQ8 was hard now? hmmm...

(Zombie) Neteher

How are we supposed to vent our frustrations about getting our butts kicked at school if we're getting our butts kicked at home?

@Fernando Jorge: I like a certain amout of difficulty *nod*
Beating the Final boss in FF7, FFTactics or any than I can think of is pretty fucking easy. And that's a shame.
I like having skill and being able to use it. Hence why the FF games have non story related optional bosses that are hard. Still, it's a pity FF games don't have an option to make the Final Boss the hardest fight in the game (perhaps if you completed all over optional quests?).
One of the hardest fights I ever played in an RPG was Demogorgon (prince of Demons and madness in DnD) in the game Baldur's Gate 2. I still remember that fight!

Games should be fun and rewarding. This is something you learn when you become a DM in DnD. There should be easy fights to weaken your players. Difficult boss fights to test their characters and make them feel as if they have accomplished something grand. There should be impossible fights (that hopefully they run away from or avoid), and there should be fights where they come across foes that are powerful, but they still manage to defeat easilly (makes the players feel good and prideful).
The same should apply to video games. Challenge, rewards, fun but not frustration. And punishment for bad decisions.

Thriceborn

@Zolbrod: That whole concept was why I quit playing JRPGs to begin with.

@noslackjaw: can't play without the win button?

SHERBO64

@mrtoofresh: it's so weird actually seeing this for sale everywhere =D unfortunately, I can't speak Japanese so it's
no use anyway =\ it looks so
great though. super excited!

what's more - the incube here has
a dq merch table set up with the original dragon quest for nes opening screen and music playing infinitely <3

Wait, since when have games been easy just for being released on the DS? When did that start? Terrible byline.

@noslackjaw: No that analogy to books is wrong. Video games are not books, they are video games. You don't buy a video game for plot alone, you buy for the gameplay.

A game is pointless if there's no risk of losing. If there's no defeat there's no win, and if none of those things are there, then it isn't a game, it's a toy.

And you can be the greatest writer ever, but some complex ideas will be hard to convey and might require multiple reads. Some great movies are so great because of their subtlety, because of what different things you can capture on repeated views, because their ideas are so complex and interesting that they can generate discussion. Demanding everything to be easy for you to digest is lazyness.

The developers don't have any duty to the consumer beyond providing a bug free product and of delivering what they promised they would. If they want to make it hard, they can, and in fact they should.

Today finding a hard game is a bless. Games are being dumbed down, ruined, only to cater to an audience that just want to watch the pretty graphics and control the cool hero with his over the top super powers.

Fernando Jorge

Eh, for me, a game that is too difficult wears my patience incredibly quickly. I don't have time to retry a dungeon and a boss over and over again.

But we can't exploit weaknesses in Dragon Quest! Well, at least it's a manly rpg.

@kiramon:

Stupid FF7? I dont think you are serious,dont you?

Noooo! DQ8 was way too hard as it was!

@adaorardor:

"but, if don't follow a certain part of a film, you should probably re-watch that part. if you are having difficulty with a certain passage of a book, you should re-read it until you understand it."

That's a reader/viewer prerogative, not a task assigned to the artist. It's not the artist's duty to play gatekeeper with the consumer.

"i mean, if that's not how you read, you're doing it wrong."

The definition of a good writer is one who has the reader get it right the first time. Truly great authors describe complex situations with perfect clarity and style, and no re-reading is necessary. It's the same with (single-player) games: great designers give the player a fun and engaging experience the first go-round, no 'game over' screens or reloads necessary.

noslackjaw

@noslackjaw:you guys are ruining video games.

"I can't imagine a book making you reread a chapter because you aren't reading fast enough, or a movie restarting because your attention to detail is lacking."
but, if don't follow a certain part of a film, you should probably re-watch that part. if you are having difficulty with a certain passage of a book, you should re-read it until you understand it. i mean, if that's not how you read, you're doing it wrong. when you play a game like trivial pursuit, if you can't answer the history questions, guess what happens? YOU DON'T MOVE ON.

what the fock were they thinking?
they should have released this on wii
if they couldn't rely on ps3.
stupid square enix is a bunch of idiots these days.

nkxjakfhda

@Rinaldus: yeah, that shit was probably the hardest jrpg i ever played, but oddly i loved it. i never played one that challenged me the way dragon quest did. played for around 120 hours. strangely, i didnt mind the grinding.

@danny8k:

Agreed.

Difficulty should be reserved for competitive multiplayer games (where by definition there must be a winner and a loser), and for unlocking achievements and extra goodies (alternate costumes, etc.) in single-player games. If someone plops down hard-earned money for a game, then they should be able to beat it without question -- they might have to play on the easiest mode, and it might take them longer than a skilled player, but they bought the game and practically have a right to see the entirety of the story.

Only developers are this arrogant with their customers' time and resources. I can't imagine a book making you reread a chapter because you aren't reading fast enough, or a movie restarting because your attention to detail is lacking. There's nothing wrong with difficulty, it just needs to be in its proper place and time.

noslackjaw

Their definition of hard seems to be 'grind repeatedly until you have enough money and experience points'. That almost turned me off Final Fantasy XII.

mcderek3000

@Orian: Also more frustrating, especially if the design and controls are just a tiny bit off, or if any element of luck is involved.

mcderek3000

@galewind: i'm not sick of the formula either.

i played and have beating dragon quest 8, which was probably the hardest jrpg i have ever fucking played. but it was so satisfying to complete stuff because they didn't hold your hand like a baby. people better stop crying because that's the way it's gonna be, and i love it. anyone else agree?

@kiramon:

I suggest you play Demon soul for PS3.

The hardest game so far on PS3 platform.

ye0073

@Xcite79: also, it's worth mentioning that dungeons in dragon quest tend to be pretty short.

@Xcite79: you see, there are no game overs in dragon quest.

when you die, you are sent back to the church in the last town you visited, with all your experience levels and any items discovered in the dungeon.

. . . you lose half your gold, however.

(this is why they have banks for you to store gold in. (caveat: gold must be stored in 1,000-gold increments))

so yeah!

a lot of people seem to not realize this about dragon quest.

also, i am sure it'll have a sleep function and a temp save system!

I've been playing DQIV on the DS lately and I have to say that it does seem formulaic, as written above. Grind your way to get the better armor and weapons, then trigger event in said town, and move on. It's actually a pretty decent game from what I've played (I'm not sick of the formula, so they must be doing it right).

galewind

Nintendo paid out Square-enix to create a frustrating experience that would make gamers bash their old DSlites so they can buy new ones, or possibly the DSi's.

Square-enix in turned answered by making Dragon Quest harder than it ever has been.

@koldkalamity: and he's only the Main Bad Guy for the first third of the game!

you people are weak!

(lol)

One save slot? Yeah, sounds like they just want to force people to not share their game. Low.

Zunnoab

@PossibleCabbage: To each his own, I guess, but it amazes me that people think that something like that makes a game "great"

Sounds goddamn cheap to me.

there are only five days until this is released

bashcraft, hold me :(

@koldkalamity: : That makes 3 of us. I hate being forced to grind.

I want a save anywhere system. I can take the stress unless I have to go through for example, a whole cave to the end where I have to fight a tough boss only to die and go through the whole cave over again.

@Kraznor:
Same here. Doulmagus is a chump anyway.

I'm glad to hear this. The essence of Dragon Quest (or Warrior, in my day) was always "grind until you have enough gold to buy the next set of equipment and are high enough level to get to the next town, and then repeat once you get there." Good to hear they're not losing sight of what made the series great.

PossibleCabbage

That's what she said

QuigleyHamster

Great, I thought VIII was pretty outrageous, I didn't even finish it.

if the difficulty can be solved by leveling up then its fine. if the difficulty is based on luck and how vital each action is then it suck. japan love difficult games. just look at monster hunter.

chamoo232

@mrtoofresh: expect at least 6 months after the Japanese releasse. its always been like that for square enix games.

chamoo232

@Orian: Sure, but if you have to defeat an extremely hard boss in order to advance the plot and must grind a dozen hours in order to do so then sorry, they've lost me.

I like the FF style: make some plot-critical bosses challenging and make some optional bosses nail-biting hard.

ourovoros

@Ueziel: DQ8 was a real eye opener in terms of old school hard for me. Doubtless it was pretty tame to people who've been gaming a long time, but I remember getting solidly served numerous times, and often only just scraping through boss fights. I still have to beat the last couple of bonus dragon bosses, if I recall...

Nowadays if I don't have a chance of being annihilated by random encounters the game is hardly worth playing (goddamn Last Resort and Megido...).

Before we care we should really wait till we get impressions from people that have played it.

I love the idea of a hard DQ games and I'm really tired of having to go to a SMT game to get my hard JRPG dosage. I'm just hoping the game isn't harder for people without friends because I have plenty of friends, but here in the states I don't know that many people that are going to be picking this up.

Love to get some impressions of what exactly makes the game difficult for someone playing solo and someone playing with 3 other people.

"It's harder than any of the previous titles"
"there is only one data save slot"

Hmmm, thinking I might pass on it, considering how fucking hard VIII was.

Rinaldus

@Vidunder:

It's not Lost Odyssey's fault you suck.

Nah, not serious. I had some LO problems myself, although to be fair once I figured out a strategy said problems evaporated.

Orian

@danny8k:

While that may be true; it's far more rewarding to defeat an extremely difficult boss than it is to defeat an easy one.

Orian

@kiramon:

Oh, there are difficult RPGs out there. The only flaw with the RPG genre is that once you figure out a proper means of combating said difficulty you won't really have much trouble with that section anymore.

Orian

@Ueziel: Wow, you gotta be kidding me! Someone has a different opinion/perception than you!!! They must be retarded or something!!
Jeez, kids those days.

Vidunder

Dragon Quest can be as hard as they want to because player can't actually 'game over'. If your characters are all dead, you will be revived at the last save point with half of your money and that's all.

As for one save point, I think they did that to prevent items duplication. (If you have played DQmonster\Diablo siries before you will understand what it means.)

panikt

@Elrinth: Eh

Hard RPGs don't really exist.

There's Regular RPGs.
Stupid FF7 RPGs
and
"Kill more random enemies until you level up to out level a boss" RPGs.

@Vidunder: Hahaha you have to be kidding me. Lost Odyssey's difficulty was perfect. You couldn't overlevel ever and the bosses were totally fair if you weren't retarded.

@danny8k: I think you forgot that difficult games can oftentimes be very fun.

this could be a good thing. persona 4 on hard was definitely rewarding, and ended up being my favorite RPG of all time. but then again, i could be a masochist...

xblindx

I've had enough of games that are mildly hard, and get easier the more you mindlessly grind, but are dotted with obscenely difficult bosses just so they can be perceived as difficult games. This is not how "hard games" are done, UNDERSTOOD LOST ODYSSEY?

Vidunder

I think developers forgot that games are supposed to be fun and not frustrating.

danny8k

Awesome news. The Dragon Quest games (Rocket Slime aside) should always be difficult.

@jookie: Word!

Play Black Sigil: Blade of the Exiled... The game has slightly too many random battle occurences, but once you get further in the game battles are over slightly faster.
That game needs great strategy. You'll even get defeated by normal monsters every now and then if you're not careful :) I haven't played such difficult rpg ever :)
Sometimes there's gameplay flaws, such as your healer/spellcaster blocking your fighter from reaching the enemy. But most of the time you can defeat the enemy if you play your cards right. :D

Hard RPGs are so much more rewarding. I'd rather have it hard than have something where it just takes forever to feel accomplished (like FFX optional quests).

jookie

and when is the US release date?

Ruined it for me.

elmorepow