Sony Motion Control Patent Shows Coffee Mug Gaming

@Dangeresque the Observer: I'm not even winded!

@Ben Nadler:
Natal uses a IR camera for measuring the depth. A thermal camera would be to expensive.
But don't forget that it can't measure a hidden object!
That's what caused the "BAM-effect".

@LllusionX:Proud Commander of the Sony Attack Force Helghan!: No, it actually does work using some type of thermal imaging. Many of the reviewers at E3 were shown a demo of Natal where the lights in the room were turned off, but the accuracy of the game remained. What you are both saying is true. It looks at your body, via a heat scan, and by having a basic understanding of the human skeleton, picks out specific points on your body and then maps them onto a pre-rendered camera.

Of course Sony's product can also map movement, but as I stated in my post, it is only capable of doing so on an X and Y axis. It may be capable of calculating a Z axis, but it can't map in one, meaning this technology will never be as accurate in SOME regards as Natal. For example, if I reached forward, Natal would recognize that (as demonstrated by the Burnout Demo, where foot forward = drive, foot back = reverse). With this, it simply allows you to map an object to another object, like Natal, but it doesn't recognize it in three dimensions. It simply recognizes its form and color qualities and then attempts to determine its position so that it can be used for swinging a baseball bat.

In the end, its probably as accurate as the Wii. Which is, well, not bad, but not great.

@Marios_shadow: Just make sure the bat has a wrist strap. And comes with one of those condom things.

So now I can use my Wii-mote on the PS3.

rp0

@detto: I'm gunna map my penis to a lightsaber... I wonder if there is a size requirement? lol

@Balram Shanker Trivedi:Back to troll school with you.

@adinnieken:

How I know this? Because I read the previews. They had a devcontrolled Milo presentation as reported by Kotaku and several other sites.
The Burnout demo was playable and controlled so so.
And Ricochet was fun.
There is nothing else at the moment.
That's all.
If you mean this:

+ Watch video

Well that's a commercial!!!

I hear always Natal can do this Natal can do that...
Have you ever watched the old Eyetoy trailers?
Promising the world is easy:

+ Watch video

Oh my days!
Nintendo is already outta business!
PS3 is outselling the WII in JAPAN ALREADY!!
Sony gaining momentum big time!

Balram Shanker Trivedi

this just seems silly, swinging around a baseball bat in the living room. I would rather use a Wii motion plus, Sony is getting off track, besides this will probably cost a lot. I am thinking Project Natal will cost more than an Xbox360. I am a huge fan of the 20 dollar motion Plus.

jameslefeber

This is what they showed off at E3. The "wands" are just objects designed to make it easy for the EyeToy to recognize and follow their movements, plus they had a single form of output - the changing color of their lights. That's why Sony said that the wands weren't "finalized" and the tech may not look the same when it's released in stores.

"So unless you're a developer with knowledge of both systems.. i'll say you're talking crp." = i'd say most of the ppl ranting about how NATAL does things so superior are just talking crp. y? because MS hasn't said anything of the sort of how exactly NATAL works. and really, why wold they? its not like anyone really cares about how their peripherals work, just acting like they do in forums. developers do, but once again, they aren't talking and probably can't (due to MS NDA) and wouldn't (same reasons as why MS hasn't actually mentioned any of the details). And probably more importantly MS is intentionally keeping a lot of the NATAL details secret because they know mystery causes people on forums to hyperventilate with hype and spread weird made-up theories of how it works, and actually alters reality and creates a star trek holodeck WITHOUT THE HOLODECK! just with your body! main point, if MS hasn't been saying anything other than the most basic of info on what components are in the NATAL, how do so many people in internet land seem to have such inner knowledge of its workings? for what its worth, most of them probably don't really know anything about the inner workings of Sony's design either.

TalbotAlligator

Woot! Hot Coffee, here we come!

Wait, no. You mean a coffee mug?

finally i can use that nintendo light gun with the broken cord.
and i get how you can bat with the wiffle bat in a baseball game, but how do you run bases when you're batting, unless your wiffle ball bat has buttons?

this newfangled gen y technology confounds my simple 30-something brain.

ToneTheTiger

So now they are too cheap to give us controllers? I have to have a mug handy to play Uncharted? (Just jokin around ^_^)

@Marios_shadow: Not to mention that the PS3 is right in front of him. That's a very expensive welcome mat if stepped on. Granted it's just a mock up, but I'd never ever put a console on the floor like that with motion controls in action.

Zunnoab

@Gort23: Clancy, use the remote!

@Dehnus: You've seen a tech demo at E3, which consisted of motion capture (which didnt work when he looked at his shoe), a ball breaking game (hardly pushing the cpu here) which was quite laggy behind what she was doing in real life, and a (very inaccurate looking - it only recognised huge gestures) painting toy which couldve been done with the eye toy... And you've come to that conclusion how exactly?

Whereas sonys presentation was 1 on 1 real time tracking, with quite a fine detail of precision?

So unless you're a developer with knowledge of both systems.. i'll say you're talking crp.

clammy

ACE ATTORNEY: GODOT'S DAY OUT CONFIRMED FOR PS3!!

@[twitter.com]:

*cough*
[kotaku.com]

[kotaku.com]

*cough*

Real life objects being scanned in using the PS Eye, and look, the dates are in 2008 and 2007. If they already had tech demos for things like this back in 2007, they have been working on this stuff for years. Also, just the fact that we are seeing patents for this means that it is something they have been working on at least since before Natal was announced.

@adinnieken: "No, Natal actually gathers 3-dimensional information based on thermal heat registers on the body."

Hahahahaha!!! This is complete bullshit, I hope you know that!! It does a type of anatomical estimation to make a wireframe in game to represent the body, then it tosses on some prerendered characters and objects, and for it's "3d mapping" it takes a picture of two sides of an object that has gradation, and pastes the textures onto an, again, existing in game object. Really, the scanning is a type of customization tool, if you will.

"Because Natal tracks your body's physical movements. Sony's product can't do that."
But the movements that it does track, it tracks them 1:1. Natal cant do that.

@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.: I'm sure keeping the system in a sealed entertainment center is much worse than sitting on the floor.

@ashdown: I can just see some loser shooting his own TV. Maybe this is an evil plot to sell more Bravias.

Gort23

@Ben Nadler: but really, that wasnt an object. the skate board was always in the game, all it does is take a picture of the rounded texture. in theory, and i promise you this will happen, somebody could(and will) scan their penis onto the skateboard, or whatever else, and they will be riding a penis.... So far, from what i've seen, natal is really just an eye toy that's actually a camera and a voice recorder. (both of which can be found at a dollar store)

@Dehnus: With the new sony motion tracking thing is what they were impying with this. it will be in 3d as well, and unlike natal, it has been proven to work very well, as natal has done some pseudo 3d ball blocking and an even more imprecise take on finger painting.

@myspambox:
I want to find the guy who did this so I can hit him. Its called a laser pointer, and I've been doing this for years.

@Jellopnik: Oh boy, lets encourage the companies and destroy the wall between the real gamers and the people who think they are.
No, I am fully against this. Jesus christ, and I thought Sony was the only one with a lick of sense anymore.
Everything is going to hell.

@tormenta3001:

Awesome. I'll map my wii remote, then. : D

gurfinki

As is my understanding of the pictures:

In case of a common emergency where the PS Eye tries to absorb you into the TV, get your older brother to use a baseball, a Space Invader ship, or a light saber to destroy aforementioned PS Eye.

Extra Warning: Your PS Eye may communicate with your PS3 to plan world domination.

... simple really.

AXATAX

@adinnieken:
That's all fine and dandy, but here's the trick:

Name a game (or mini-game, game motion, gaming element etc.) that can only be done with 3D MoCap and NOT with 2D, and that is both functional and fun?

Currently, I can't see anything in a game that would make having 3D mapping more useful over basic 2D.

In other words, what I really want to say is that the proof is in the pudding guys. Don't get so worked up when neither of these (Natal/PS MoCap) have been released, let alone had any games developed exclusively for either that utilizes each system's abilities to their best capacity.

AXATAX

@Tzion:

No, it won't.

Sony's patent covers scanning an object to be used for the purposes of a player/character object, and then the gamer continues to use that object for the purposes of the game. Natal does not require any object to be held. Games can use the ability to scan an object in, but the object isn't the required component.

As in the case of the demonstration provided by Microsoft, the skateboard wasn't used by the gamer, but it was used in the game. The gamers physical movements determined what the character did, not the movement of the object.

Sony's patent covers scanning an object in for use by the player character, and for tracking that object.

adinnieken

@Ben Nadler:
If you could just start over from the beginning... that would be great.

@abort_user:

No, Natal actually gathers 3-dimensional information based on thermal heat registers on the body. This is technically why it has a limited (15'x 20') range. The Infrared camera detects heat in proximity to the camera, the closer the object is to the camera, the more heat it gives off. So your nose would likely be hotter than your ears, even if by touch your ears are hotter.

Natal can map a person in 3D. I don't know how well it can map an object in 3D. I would have to believe it would do the same sort of mapping of an object that the Sony patent proposes.

Sony's is not 3D mapping. It's only 2D mapping within a 3D space. If you actually watch the tech demo you can see that. As an example, if you had stood in front of an EyeToy and had three wands with three different sized balls on them, one smaller, one normal, and one slightly bigger, and presented each of them, your position on the screen or the position of the object you were holding would change. That isn't the case with Natal.

With Sony, size matters. The bigger you are (the wand/ball), the closer you are, and the smaller you are, the farther away you are.

While the princples are fairly similar Natal is actually tracking 48 points on your body, including facial expressions and fingers. It knows the difference between a forearm moving forward vs. the entire arm from the shoulder down vs. one side of the body moving forward. The Sony EyeToy can only determine where that one object is and then associate it to the object being held by the player character on the screen.

As has been pointed out, one of the possibilities with Natal is that you could be able to poke your head around an object and your player character would do the same. Because Natal tracks your body's physical movements. Sony's product can't do that.

adinnieken

Love the Barcelona chair. Classy.

rollypollygirl

@Kakuki:

You know this how???

Regardless, Natal doesn't require anything to be tracked except your body movements. If you want to swing a club to get a real-feel of a golf game you can, however you can also have nothing in your hands and swing and you'd do the same movement.

Natal's power is that it just requires you, it doesn't require an object that you hold in order to track your movements. The object is ancillary to Natal, it's there only to make you feel more immersed in the game if you want to be. Not because there is no other means to track movements.

Heck, if you had Natal, it'd even track that finger you just flashed me.

adinnieken

@Black-Dog-Howls: they showed something similar as a proof of concept with the previews of "eyepet"...

so yeah, seemingly they've got this stuff down before natal was even announced.

exion

@Method of exercising a cat.

myspambox

@Foxstar is in love with Kotaku's two Brians.:
After the motion controls come out, sonys eye toy will have virtually as much support as their regular controllers, if it goes according to plan.

fanboyps3

Wow, coffee mug physics. Whats next Big Gulp physics?

But then it still couldn't run Crysis.

@cowondinosaur: Yeah, you can tell by the awesome way he holds the light saber in figure 3B 302b

@Dehnus: im confused as to what youre actually talking about. are you talking about scanning objects for their use in the game? or are you talking about 3d motion tracking of objects?

scanning objects into the game neither system has truly 3d mapping. sure natal can get depth but of part of the image. it just depends on how its incorporated.

they both have 3d motion tracking. if anything sonys looks a little more precise. we still dont know if we can even use objects with natal (though im willing to be money that we can (itll probably just track your body and not the object).

@Dangeresque the Observer: that comment made my day! 1.21 jiggawatts. if doc brown is a scientist then we all must be.

abort_user

@Accordion: Giggle! So true, yet people still don't get it.

Microsoft already showed that Natal can map objects from the real world to the virtual. How is not needing them in your grip a bad thing? If you really wanted, I guess you could still map your own tennis racket into the game AND hold onto it when you're playing. I'd rather not knock over any vases though.

-Silver-

That sketch drawing looks suspiciously like Fahey.

@Dangeresque the Observer:

The Scout: Worst TV repairman EVER

@CreamSodaSlurpee:

go outside

@manicfoot:I'm sure if you opened it up, the amount of dust within would stun you. Mine sits within a sealed entertainment center with vents and it collects a fair amount of dust, I can only wager how yours looks inside.

@SaanZ:They are getting back to 'major games' if you paid attention to E3. And the cost to launch with Motion Plus would have driven the system cost up by a fair amount.

Before you go say. "It should have launched this way." maybe you should go see what it would have cost to launch then compared to what it does now. And if Sony's so smart about Eyetoy, why does it remain only slightly more supported then Wii Speak? Even Microsoft's first camera for the 360 is better supported.

@ShaggE wants to join the Egg Council.: Just wait until he tries to fix something.

A big hairy lumberjack will appear and say: "I don't think so Tim"

@ShaggE wants to join the Egg Council.: Tim makes fools of us all.

ThursdayNext

@Dehnus:

Yeah in a nice commercial spot made for E3. You do realise that this wasn't real?
The only thing you can do atm is playing Ricochet, Burnout Paradise and the dev-controlled Milo.

Really? More of this motion controlled crap? Are Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all trying to kill the good old gamepad. I like this stuff sometimes, it's why I bought a Wii, but I'm not interested in having this as the new standard over time, which is exactly what all this is starting to look like.

TOTALLY HARDCORE! /sarcasm

Supa_S

Anybody else noticed the PS3 'wirelessly' connecting to the Eyetoy?

jaffaz

@MaximusDM: My launch PS3 is on my floor and doing fine :P I own over 20 systems and they've all been on my floor for at least few years. Not one of them has broken. Guess I'm just lucky :)

I know too many people with very real swords. This would become a mess, very very quickly.

Psudonym

@Nudgenudge: With loads of hacking mini-games. GAME OVER. You placed the decimal in the wrong place, dip shit!

@raz0r81ad3: For Natal, you can scan objects in for specific in game purposes, i.e. the kid scanning his skateboard into a Tony Hawk game and then riding on it.

However, for the games, such as that splat ball game or whatever and Godzilla kid, that uses full 3D mapping, but I think it is only able to do it through thermal imaging (although I'm not so sure on that). But that is definitely 3D mapping, since it incorporates where your limbs are, etc. into the 3d environment.

@cowondinosaur: What? A guy in a polo with a goatee? That sounds like a lot of gamers I know. It also looks like almost every male person going to my college (with the exception of the goatee, you can swap it out). We're all a bunch of lemmings, its true.

@Dangeresque the Observer: What words was he using that sounded like they were from Back to the Future? Pseudo? The rest of the words he used were from the vocabulary of a 7th grader. After pseudo, the most complicated word he uses is probably mapping.

Let me put it in simpler terms for you. Microsoft's Natal is able to calculator the distance between itself and other objects (and hence the distance between 2 other objects). This patent, however, shows a much simpler technology: it takes a picture of an object so that whenever it sees that object, it follows its movement. But it can't tell if the object moves further away or closer to the camera - it can only read its movement on an X and Y axis. Because it knows what multiple sides of the object look like, when the object is turned it uses the Cell to try calculate where that object is, but it can't be 100%. Hence the "pseudo" 3D mapping. Maybe 95-99%, but even then, I'd rather use a normal controller than a motion controller that feels off (which is why I can only play Mario Kart and Smash Bros. on the Wii, since they don't require swinging around like a monkey).

@Dangeresque the Observer: Jigawatts indeed (I LOLed pretty hard at that one :) ). From what I've seen in Natal videos, Natal scans objects as purely 2D and slaps those images as textures onto a prefabricated 3D object in-game.
I seriously doubt that Natal will ever be able to do a full 3D scan of real-world objects.
Sony's thingamajig probably takes multiple pictures of an object and makes a single texture out of it. Then it simply matches parts of the recorded scene with the parts of the stored image.
Probably :)

raz0r81ad3

@ShirleyTemple: A little common sense would do you good. Maybe it matters because mapping in 3D space is remarkably more accurate than 2D?

So, who wants to try flying a plane using their trouser-titan? I mean, come on. We'd all try it, right?

So Sony is patenting Star Wars Baseball?

I'd laugh but I already have money down at several game stores if any such game were ever to be released.

@SansSanity:

Damn it :(

SaanZ

@Tzion: Natal didn't come first though either in concept or patent.

Black-Dog-Howls

@LordThayer: No. This is actually mild compared to some of the shit that people try to push through the patent office.

Someone once tried to patent a Gundam. I shit you not.

Black-Dog-Howls

@detto: That is no fun at all.

Cavefish

@detto: Slowest lightsaber ever.

orijimi

@Dehnus: What the hell does it matter how its mapped as long as it actually works?

ShirleyTemple

@cowondinosaur: I think everyone is missing the underlying announcement here.

See FIG. 1, 101: Crazy strand of hair, needs PS3 grooming paraphernalia

@ashdown: This "Tim Crisis" you mention sounds like a doozy of a game.

"RUN! TIM'S COMING RIGHT FOR US!"

"We'll never escape! He's got a Tim Machine! He'll track us anywhere!"

"Cut the blue wire! That'll shut down the Tim Bomb!"

:P

what an uncanny coincidence that this appears no so long after natal trailerd that it would scan everyday objects for use. there'll probably be a report in the next day or two from sony saying they've actually worked on this for years just like planning to axe UMD from the psp >_>

@Cavefish: No, you could map a baseball baat to a lightsaber too. Not that authentic though.

@Dehnus: Okay. So I am not an expert. And I really don't mean to offend you in saying this... but that sounded like science on the level of Dr. Emmett Brown and his jigawatts. I mean, again, it's entirely possible you totally know what you're talking about, and I'm just left behind... but the words you are using sound so fake, I wonder if someone's about to go Back to the Future.

@Marios_shadow: Somebody keepin' track of my HDTVs Batted In? BONK!

@SaanZ: Not really.. but nice try.

Better luck next time :)

SansSanity

@cowondinosaur: Nope, it is what the average target audience looks like. You didnt think they made motion control for the hardcore, did you?

Cridia

"Coffee mug gaming" made me think of a Office Space game adaptation.

Tell Pete he's going to work on Saturday!
Explode a printer with a baseball bat!
Watch Kung-Fu!
Try to recover your red stapler!

Nudgenudge

my god jimmy fallon is not funny

sundaysatten

@SaanZ:
Natal actually maps in 3D and can do the same thing as this but in 3D!. This thing maps the Ushape from 2D space into a pseudo 3D space by looking athow the movement of the Ushape looks when you move. If you then grab a Baseball bat it uses the Ushape to create a pseudo 3D feel. THere is no real 3D mapping about this really.

Dehnus

translation: Sony will now be making money with the same cheap plastic you've all been mocking for the last 3 yrs. only now they'll be "cool" and "hardcore"!

for the record... I think cheap plastic add-ons are lame.

Wii Wheel? useful.
Nyko Perfect Shot? blissful.

Crash__Man

@Maldron: So I'll need a real lightsaber for it to track!

On the other hand, if I had a real lightsaber, I'd not stay inside playing my PS3...

Cavefish

@MaximusDM: I think these are just examples of "how" this thingy could be used. It doesn´t matter where everythning stands(except the eyetoy - of course). and they normally arn´t so accurate with drawing detals like cables u know.

M.C.-Action

@Maldron: I thought it maps the coffee mug, then turns that into the baseball bat given on screen visuals. I'm guessing you could map a baseball bat to a baseball bat, but then you would need to keep using the baseball bat.

creat0r

@Tzion:

They should both be fine. It's a very general process, even the DSi can do this on some level.

You cant hold claim over something as broad as this if the legal system works correctly.

Otherwise a troll would have made alot off of suing companies with online mulitplayer... oh wait...

Damn Sony, scared of trolls

SaanZ

@Tzion: I wonder if that was probably the point of patenting it?

@Maldron:

I think you can map whatever you want, like a remote controll and that will be get tracked and represent a baseball bat on the game, you dont need to track an actual baseball bat.

tormenta3001

It's funny, this is what Bill Gates was always talking about. Using real world objects in a virtual setting. I assumed this is what Natal would be used for, but if you can't swing a real racket to play tennis that's pretty weak.

CreamSodaSlurpee

Imagine throwing that into your TV!

jakster4u

This sounds like it might clash with Natal a bit, legally.

@SaanZ:

I hope I made a coherent statement.. Im tired...

SaanZ

So basically Natal just took another blow as being that great.

I dont think this patent holds much in exclusive merit as its to very general process.

We saw this with Natal though it wasnt the headliner there.

Sony's smarter than micrsoft with its Eyetoy usage, as microsoft could have used there cameras, but instead are pushing Natal.

But again both are going to be mostly novelties at this point, Though as an addition to already deep games, they would be welcome novelties...

For all the flak the Wiimote did, if had launched with the motionplus and a few more buttons it could have actually become a decent substitute for a regular controller... if the Wii had horsepower.

The Gamecube almost killed you... we get it... get back to more major games...

SaanZ

Yes, now i can be barista, and make coffee for people! so exciting, oh wait it's what i already do... crappy job of mine.

@BlitzWhat:

Using a REAL GUN for Tim Crisis would be an interesting experience.

ashdown

@Trailnutz: It's for those horses with square hooves.

spannu

Well for one, the PS Eye does not communicate with the PS3 wirelessly. And two, who the hell puts their PS3 on the floor. That is just asking for it to suck up dirt and choke up and die. And finally, the TV isn't even on a big enough stand to put it at eye level. We don't all own 50 inch TVs either. That is just a guess by the look of it compared to the size of the man.

@Marios_shadow: That said, a second look makes me want to retract my similar statement, it appears to map the baseball bat, after which point you don't need the physical bat anymore. Whether the layman would catch on or not is another matter.

Why does he need to stab himself to prevent the lightsaber from beeing activated?

M.C.-Action

Spock ET psp Go HOME

The hell is that? Square horseshoe?

I wonder if the people at the patent office also look at this and wonder,"Christ, what the fuck is going on?"

To rip off a good man; finally people with a baseball bat and the ability to play baseball no longer have to go outside and to play baseball.

This sounds promising, Sony really have a handle on this technology it seems, and with the augmented reality capabilities already shown with the Eye they could do some very interesting things. Unfortunately, I doubt many developers will bother to do anything of note with it.

Still, wireless Time Crisis anyone?

Aw, no stick figure this time. :'<

Not sure how interesting an idea this is as is, however bringing items from my home into a game for use as tools would be interesting.

Kanoopy

Is that what they really think the average gamer looks like? :(

cowondinosaur

This could be really awesome if it pulls through. Instead of having to purchase extra peripherals, users can just use everyday objects instead. Very promising.

Jellopnik

You think a Wiimote could fuck up a TV? Try an actual Baseball bat.

(sigh) Okay...This is....not so good. I can tell from this that vidgamers are going to get dissed again. I can just see it now. Unless they put blocks on certain shapes that I just know some idiot out there's going to try and scan in, this is an accident waiting to happen.

I mean, right in that diagram, that guy is holding a bat! Now, I like looking at the good side of things at much as the next person, but we all know where the opposite side of the coin is going to spin. Instead of using it to play sports/baseball games, anyone that's not totally stu*** knows that some people are going to do that in the fighting/violent games. Or, some brainless twit is going to pull out the gun they or their family have, supposedly for protection, and decide to use that.

Then, there are the moro*** that are bored and have nothing better to do than make mischief and have them decide to use the system as a practice range and then "rank up their skills" and take it out of the home/off the game console and into the real world.

PsiWren

Fig. 1 is Duster with a Wall Staple, clearly.

keefry

@cowondinosaur: at least the collar isnt popped.

Alpengeist