Your Comments Fuel Gay Gaming Conference

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: Like I say, some people are more sensitive than others. The very fact that people have felt motivated to have this conference, however, suggests that this is enough of a problem that many people are genuinely being offended by it. And it seems unlikely that these people are just all unusually thin-skinned.

When you're online I think you have to accept that the veil of anonymity means that people are liable to run their mouths off without a moment's thought, largely because they are accountable to noone. But that doesn't mean you just have to tolerate any kind of behaviour. Especially if that behaviour is reflective of more widespread prejudice in society at large.

The fact is that many people take offence at the use of homophobic language online in a way that they seem not too with other issues. It really does affect the emotions of people in the real world, and so it's an issue worth addressing.

dd528

@Zorantor: I wholeheartedly agree that there is a great deal of hostility for GBLT's (never used that abbreviation before!) and it comes from people who are basically ignorant. It might be that tolerance for others was not part of the education they received, or it might be that intolerance WAS part of the education they received.

Either way, get a bunch of people like this together in a lobby and add someone with a gay gamertag and you will see some serious intolerance.

My response to this problem was to stop ANY sexual preference referencing going on in XBL. It's sadly impossible for Microsoft (or anyone else) to change the attitudes of these people, so remove the catalyst.

I do now feel a bit sad that that was my response, it's rational, but let's face it, it's not very sympathetic. My honest opinion is that people should be free to express who they are wherever they like.
Sadly "fAgHaTer18" will want to express himself too.

Gaunt

@Phydeaux: Good point, well raised. Bet that guy feels stupid.

Anyone found to be displaying that kind of behavior should just have their gold subscription permanently removed.

Gaunt

@Deaf Mute: I couldn't possibly agree more. I don't even bother using my headset anymore unless playing with my friends - I know that's frowned upon but I don't care.

It's not about me being thin-skinned. More often than not playing on Live is like hanging out with guys from junior high - I don't do it in real life so why should I online?

I miss Flynn :(

Ah... right then... so now I am famous. Excellent news. Heh...

I always thought hating someone for their sexual preference was stupid.

It really is, if you take the time to think about it. That's like hating someone for the kind of sandwhich they like. Seriously. "Oh, I'm going to burn your house down because you like mayo, instead of mustard!"

That's really what it boils down to. What the other person is doing doesn't affect you in any way, shape, or form. It's their choice, not yours.

Well I still will never understand the need for anyone to use racist/bigoted terms. It just doesn't make sense in my head to ever bother to say them. Especially to shout them at random strangers.

I myself am gay, but I don't go around letting folks I don't know, know what my sexuality is. I'm just myself, and most people who encounter me prolly have no clue about my sexuality. I guess everyone is free to act/behave the way they want, but if your intelligent at all then you should also have something called common sense and know not to bash those you don't like, and also not to go out of your way to get bashed by the ignorant masses by shoving your differences in there face.

@Torak3015: Ah, but even if you don't hold a banner at all times stenciled with 'I'm straight', you probably still act in such a way to make people assume you are straight. From the flamboyant gays' point of view, are you just as bad as they are from yours?

There's always a fair amount of debate in the gay community over those who 'overly flaunt that they are gay'. The queens are rejected by a number of groups -- tremendously hypocritical in my view, as it's a microcosm of the way the wider community treats all gays. Civilisation is always going to be full of subgroups nested within subgroups; everyone belongs to at least one. The only honest approach is to live and let live.

@Mastrix: You make a very valid point. Freedom of thought ftw, as always. It's not 1984, after all.

I think that the most important thing you say here is that despite one's beliefs, they should not be allowed to slander others. Unless a person is causing actual, quantifiable detriment to himself or others, nobody is justified in stating as fact that said person is wrong based solely on personal beliefs.

That said, in a person has a fair reason to say something, then they have every right to do so.

We're all entitled to share our opinion, but we also have a responsibility to do so diplomatically.

@Limeade: It's the unfortunate truth that some people are just that stupid, by which I mean ignorant of basic human decency and of every individual's right to be treated fairly.

I spent a large part of my teenage years fighting for gay rights. And even though I don't have as much time to do so as an adult, I still contribute to the cause when I have the opportunity. So believe me when I say that I've met more than my share of that type of idiot.

I know that it's a bit hypocritical of me to be preaching tolerance and calling people "idiots" in the same sentence, but I've just about lost my patience with people who insist on being hateful for essentially no reason.

While I'm not gay myself, the majority of my friends are (yes, awkward moments do arise) and I constantly see appalling displays of intolerance. It just blows my mind that in an age where it's widely understood that sexism and racism are wholly unacceptable, people are still openly discriminant of GLBTs.

@bialia: God dammit, I leave for a couple of hours, and I miss all this?

bialia

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): It is disturbing (to put it mildly). I cringed through it.

@Mastrix: But this is assumed that the person actually cares how they take whats being said. I honestly dont care if anyone dislikes what I say, and if I did I would have to be silent. Hell if we all truely cared we would have to walk around with duct tape covering our mouths 24/7.

Torak3015

@milomilomilo: Ditto that.

@Curse_Lily: Damn, Cure_Lily, that's a rather late, early, or reasonable work shift. I do not know which.... (can't remember if I read in a post that you said where you are [northern, central US, near some lakes?])....

As for this group hug... loving the comeraderie, but I've witness the Kotakorgy, so I'ma just give a nice high-five...

HI-5!

@bialia: Group Hugs for great topical conversation.

@Phydeaux: Kudos on the comment acknowledgment.

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: I have no real problem with people using 'gay' as negative slang every once and a while. But I grow annoyed if the person using it is constantly using it in every other sentence they speak, or use it in every manner of negative way to describe something. And personally, I just find the use of 'gay' as slang to be pretty ridiculous.

The only thing I worry about is for those people that cannot differentiate between gay as 'innocent' slang and gay as homosexuals. The ones who may actually think to themselves, "Gosh, if gay means something negative, like stupid, then that must mean gay people are something negative." And then start associating both concepts as something negative and to be disliked, ridiculed, or worse. But other than that concern, like I said, I have no real issue.

@Mastrix: Well put.

@ninjaweedman: Shhh.

@Mastrix: The only reason people use "ghey" is to get around filters. THEN people said it had a different definition to not look like pricks. It's the same thing, only without the cajones to stand behind your right to say whatever you want, whether it's offensive or not.

It's like if I spelled the N word with three g's instead and then tried to convince my next door neighbor it was ok to call his daughters that. Good luck to me.

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): I see the point you're trying to put forth. But, all you basically did was define dehumanization. The way she worded the question and the way that DeMarco responded would suggest that she was blaming this dehumanization is bringing about gay bashing. As if it didn't exist before video games.

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: Fucked up? Yes. But WHY DID I LAUGH?! *hangs head in shame*

Mastrix

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: That's actually funny; you catch on fast!

@ninjaweedman: I don't like you flaunt your obvious straightness, makes me want to rape babies.

See how fucked up that sounds? And yes, from the way you talk, you flaunt your straiaghtness.

@ninjaweedman: Fair enough, though I would argue that knowing how they will react and knowing how you will affect them are two separate things that need to be considered individually.

Mastrix

@Mastrix: you are smart enough to know where im coming from.

ninjaweedman

I know it was brought up in a previous article, but how do people feel on the subject of delineating between (at least text-wise) "gay" and "ghey"? I've seen both commonly used, and because it can be hard or impossible to discern in voice chat, let's leave that aspect out of this.

Mastrix

@Mastrix: yeah you're right, but its just the way i speak. like it or not its not gonna change the extreme manner in which i describe things. i really am a level headed person and know how most will react. : )

ninjaweedman

@Torak3015: More of a response to your actual statements: That's perfectly understandable, it's your space and it shouldn't be invaded. I would highly disagree with anyone who thinks that's ok, regardless of their sexuality (goes the same way with 2 girls or with a girl kissing a guy). The common argument that I find to flaunting sexuality is because it's not accepted. If it is to be accepted, people need to be aware of it and it can't just be kept a secret. It's also understandable that you are annoyed by it, being aware of it already, but some are not. It's an unfortunate sensory overload that seems to be a necessary by-product towards building a more accepting society.

Mastrix

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): >:[ MAKES ME ANGRY!

wazzzup16

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): Sry, it's form Current.com.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@ninjikiran: Agreed, but I have an unfortunate counter-argument that I have discovered while looking at all the comments in these threads. Just as some of us are adamant about speaking out against homophobia and racism, others are just as adamant about hating/disregarding those things, based on their own belief. As someone who believes everyone should be allowed to believe what they want, this is the hardest thing for me to say, but they are allowed to hate. That isn't to say that I like it, or that I'll let them get away with unfounded slandering (if they can defend their point with sound statements, then by all means), but it's part of the conundrum. It's what has made me lose the drive to even comment on these things, because I know at least here, few things will be resolved.

Mastrix

@Atheist Jew: It's not about "doing better" he said it's about "feeling better". There's a big difference. There can be lots of reasons why those things are at the tip of your tongue when you become frustrated and impulsive. Maybe he lived in a house with someone who used those words. Maybe he hangs out with kids that use those words. This guy didn't invent racism/homophobia, so when he owns up to using these words it would be nice if you cut him some slack.

GoonerVance

@Mastrix: Yeah ninjaweedman I kinda agree, to what Mastix is saying. But I find the best online social experience(say xbl) to be in a party, with my friends that i know personally. That way I can say what I want and not care what they think.

Edit: But i mostly agree with everything else.

Torak3015

@WiNg0o: Finally! Someone who gets it! (lol)

Jinx

@ninjaweedman: ... am I the only one that sees something wrong with this statement? If anything the "killing spree" part? I know you're not being serious but this is one step towards making the gaming community a bit of a better place; treating eachother with respect. Just like you don't like how someone who is gay flaunts their sexuality, I'm sure people probably don't like you flaunting that you own/pwn/kicked their ass in a game. Same sentiment.

Mastrix

If you haven't seen this, you should take a moment and watch this video from Gaymers.net. The thing I found so shocking was the guy saying, "I wanna hang you. Because you're gay. It's not nice, but it's true."

http://current.com/items/89329228_gaymers.htm

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@Torak3015: lol, yep bein gay is fine, but.... those overly fucking patriotic fags make me want to go out on a killing spree, and most of the gay people i know have the same thing to say.

ninjaweedman

@ninjaweedman: What about the ones who perpetuate the bullshit and the ones who legitimately defend their traditions and beliefs?

Mastrix

I honestly used to feel that a person who was gay was weird and I was under the "I hate gays" umbrella. But now I have expanded my thoughts, I honestly dont care if a man or women is gay. Its not my business. I do not think like that but hey if they can then whatever, its their way of acting so it shouldnt really bother someone unless their acted upon.

But if I would be acted upon I would feel really awkward and do something irrational. Just the same way as if a guy randomly kissed an unsuspecting girl. She (probably would but things vary) take offense.

The only thing that still bothers me about some gay people is there need to overly flaunt that they are gay. I mean if your gay thats fine, but I dont really care I mean I just find it annoying to excessively show your sexuality. I dont have it yelled across the world that I am straight and I dont plan to.

*This is just a personal annoyance but, I dislike it when people get mad at using the term gay to make a joke. I mean I rarely get offended about anything.(once again i realize this is just me) So i cant stand people that get offended over every. little. thing. I mean its a joke im pretty sure there are some jokes you could make about me due to my skin color or hell anything else.

(Just my two cents throw it in a well if you wish.)

Torak3015

@ARVash: Originally created with eight colors, pink and turquoise were removed for production purposes and as of 2008, it consists of six colored stripes, which should always be displayed with red on top or to left. Aside from the obvious symbolism of a mixed LGBT community, the colors were designed to symbolize: red (life), orange (healing), yellow (sunlight), green (nature), blue (harmony), and purple/violet (spirit). The removed colors stood for sex (pink) and art/magic (turquoise). It is most commonly flown with the red stripe on top, as the colors appear in a natural rainbow.
- Wikipedia

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

we are funny things us humans, some, just wana get over all the bullshit and move forward, and others run around blindly protecting their traditions and living inside little cardboard boxes.

ninjaweedman

@brainboy77: "If you want to stop the hate, just be a better gamer."

Some people just want to play games for fun and are applying their time and focus on other things, like school or a career. More important things. o.o

"If you're not that competitive, I have no idea why you would play online shooters to begin with. "

Because you like shooters and would like to play against other people?

@Kanji08: Good point. And I agree that one shouldn't cry foul at every little thing and should learn to toughen up a bit. But sometimes too much is just, well, too much.

I realize it is unrealistic to expect everyone to suddenly gain appreciation and understanding for the true depth and hurt that such kinds of language can cause, whether directed at sexuality, race, or religion or anything else. But, that is my main problem. I see so many arguing that calling people fags or gay isn't hurtful, yet it clearly is to many people, even if they aren't gay.

I just sincerely wish those that think such language is okay and such attitudes are acceptably or funny could live a week or two in someone else's shoes. Face the same kind of harassment, the same kind of vitriol, the same kind of menace. I wonder, once they were exposed and felt the effects that such hurtful language can cause, would they change their ways? I would hope so, but I sometimes wonder...

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@Kanji08: I hate the "grow thicker skin" argument, did you not pay attention to the "Kill all gays" facebook group?

By telling people to just grow thicker skin and not addressing the racist and homophobes, you are ENCOURAGING them. I don't care that you believe otherwise. You may be against racism and homophobia, but by not attacking it yourself and telling the oppressed groups to "get over it" you're not being part of the solution, only the problem.

Racists and homophobes should be called out and we must work to socially make it a taboo to say such things, whether offline or online. We must try to get it to the point where people would be disgusted with themselves for saying such things or thinking such ideas.

This isn't being PC.

@UltimateRuiner: i love boards of canada, great for those comedowns. : )

ninjaweedman

@ARVash: roygbiv...great Boards of Canada song...

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): I realize that, but my point is no less valid. If bastard can have multiple, separate meanings, then why not 'gay'?

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: That is a fate not even the Internet Hate machine is deserving of... ok, maybe some of it.

Mastrix

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): D'Oh! I meant segregation only ended 41 years ago.

*puts down beer

Maybe it's beddy time...

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@Moar_pr0nz: That doesn't explain why you can't exchange such explexitives for unbigoted alternatives.

I have no problem w/ trash talking with your buddies, it is all in fun. But with complete strangers you should have the sense not to use such hateful language.

ha ha, i was playing cod4 on pc a while ago and pwning up hard. after a while the hackusations started flying so what i did to piss everybody off more was told them i was gay and actually hacking.... well you should have seen the abuse fly then! lol im not gay by the way but i have noticed that most fps online communities are quite homophobic indeed, dont know why sexual orientation matters though you can be whoever you want online and get away with it.

ninjaweedman

@ShadowOdin isn't american: You touch a hair on that man's face and you'll have 200 angry Kotakuites on you faster than you can say SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA...

Mastrix

@Atheist Jew: If I could double heart you, I would. Too right and well said.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@Swamphunter: Well if it wasn't your gay, whose was it?
(edited due to my lack of ability to use proper grammar when making a joke about grammar.)

Mastrix

@brainboy77: In that sense it can also designate a sense of false superiority, or an attempt to gain the upper hand. Which is just playing dirty, really.

Mastrix

@(Zombie) Jolan: Bastard also means "irregular" and "resembling a known kind of species or type, but not being of that species or type." A good example of this is the bastard sword used in D&D.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@(zombie) buddhathing: Also, all of you hate your mother.

@@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid
& @dd528
& @Outi:: Well said, all of you, and on multiple points. 50 Internets to everyone!

Mastrix

@BoTheDestroyer:

Can someone please close the innuendo? It's a bit drafty in here.

Only those insecure about their sexuality would be driven to hate on the idea that another man could possibly like another man. They might not admit it but that is the only reason I can see for it.

They are no different from normal people, just their sexual preference. Liking men is not a contact disease, talking to them is not going to make you all of a sudden interested in men. They are not going to try to touch, I mean would you go up to a girl and just grab her more private areas? if you are a sane person probably not. Same logic applies here.

Racism and Homophobia will not go away in my life time I feel. Not on the internet where you are afforded an anonymous voice. One needs to learn how to accept things for how they are, rather then trying to stick with a norm. The idea of liking a man is so socially "different" it "threatens" the norms of society which is a reason why you have people fearmongering or angermongering at the very thought.

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): I agree with a lot of what you're saying. It's not acceptable behavior, but the majority of my rant was directed towards the situation during online gaming - not the multitude of real life issues you brought up (which I stated in my first paragraph before I ranted).

That's why I brought up the Christian aspect. In real life, yeah. I'm not gonna get harassed too much for wearing a cross or for believing what I do. However, online (especially in gaming communities/circles), it's a completely different scenario. Just look at any article on Kotaku that's even semi-related to a religious issue.

It always turns into an internet hate-fest bashing religion with a couple Christians trying to counter argue the hate remarks, only to get flamed in the process. Even you need even further proof, hop over to the "Religion & Philosophy" board on GameTrailers, or any other similar discussion boards in gaming communities.

And while it may seem like a choice for most people, for some religion is a very serious issue, and one that I personally struggled with for a few years. It's not something I take lightly. So yes, I'd say it is an apt comparison.

However, this isn't about Christianity (and hopefully further replies don't devolve it into such). And I'm not saying that people shouldn't find these remarks offensive. I know I personally find the religious bashing (especially when directed towards me specifically) to be offensive, and I know said friend in my original post gets annoyed when people make ignorant statements towards him as well.

I didn't mean people should not let these things bother them as if passively approving of their actions (as stated in your post), but rather that I don't thing the whole ordeal should be blown out of proportion and turn into a major issue when it's basically anonymous assholes online specifically trying to get a rise out of you by saying these hateful things.

Yes, they're offensive. Yes, the people acting out like that are childish, immature dicks. Yes, people on the other side of the screen can find them to be hurtful. I agree with all of this. I'm just saying that it's been going on since the dawn of the internet, and - for the most part - it's something we've all learned to deal with.

Whether it's something as insignificant as trolls bashing your favorite games, or something as serious as assholes trying to attack a very sensitive, and personal issue (racism, religion, sexuality, etc).

Kanji08

@lionkitten: Maybe because they will feel bad once they learn that they really are petty, mean-spirited assholes that are largely unlikable for causing suffering and mistreatment of others?

Given that most of the people who engage in that type of racist and homophobic behavior tend to be anti-social sociopaths, I doubt that they will.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

Huh. Someone actually listened to me in regards to the reporting system.

Is there a transcript or video somewhere? Because, honestly, the only thing I love more than hearing myself talk is hearing someone else talk about me.

Did they use my video, too, perchance? I bet that kid calling me a faggot every ten seconds didn't bank on it hitting the internet.

@DocBacca:

Sorry, man. It's been awhile since I've had a group hug.

@tehdorkz: Sigh.

It seems that many don't really get it, so let me extrapolate this. The lady actually has a legitimate train of thought. Not one I agree with, but it is perfectly legitimate.

Dehumanization causes a lack of empathy for others. That is the sole reason for it. To disconnect you from the "human response" so that you may be able to to hurt and act cruelly towards other humans without any emotional impact, hesitation or regret.

It's not that being dehumanized causes one to specifically target and hate homosexuals, it's that the lack of empathy for the suffering and torment of other makes it easy to be cruel and hateful towards gays, or anyone really.

Thus, if a game were to dehumanize people, it would make it easier for them to be cruel towards gays, as they would have zero remorse or empathy for the plight or mistreatment that guys suffer from such hurtful language.

I don't subscribe to that because I don't think video games are anywhere near powerful or visceral enough to successfully dehumanize someone. If someone does derive pleasure from other's misery in a video game, most likely they learned that trait outside of a video game and just use the game to further that expression. The same could be done with fiction, music, movies, etc.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@(Zombie) Jolan: I guess that's true. I hear rappers saying they're the baddest mofos around and I'm like wut?

@stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k]): You give people too much credit. They often time fully understand the weight of the things they say, they simply don't care.

And I can personally relate to your last paragraph, and tell you that I do not care. I couldn't begin to list the racism that has been directed toward me from people I will never see again in my life, but I can tell you it doesn't get to me. There's a good reason why.

I like me. That's all that it really takes. It also helps that I know there are people like you out there, who don't inherently hate me for being black, but, it is mostly the fact that I like me so I could really give a shit.

Always bothered me that the gay pride flag is missing a color on the rainbow. Such a jarring transition there.

r ed
o range
y ellow
g reen
b lue
i ndigo
v iolet

ARVash

I always get the feeling that the real problem is that a lot of homosexuals want there sexual orientation to be normalized by public acceptance. I could care less what you do in your bedroom, and on that note everyone accepts the fact that you wanna be gay they just dont like it when you try and make it all " hi im gay and want you to think being gay is normal." Well being gay is still weird for some people (that doesnt make them ignorant) and its not that they don't like you because of that its just different to them because they cant wrap there head around why you made that decision but that's still there problem. So i dont wanna ramble on but too late but i just thought i'de through that out there.

ZakariyyaArtimus

@bialia: And here i was getting ready to go to work without my hug

⊂二二二（　＾ω＾）二⊃

@dd528: I think you are being to critical. He is no so much ignorant to the fact that gays are harassed, which he acknowledges and doesn't agree with, rather he is more so annoyed by the fact that people are crying over things random people who know nothing about them are saying about them.

If I posted my picture on the internet, I would most likely get a bunch of comments about my race, my inability to feed a family, my father who aprantely left when I was 2, how I stole my computer, or how I'm posting on a laptop in KFC. I get bombarded with these types of statements honestly, I just don't care, because none of them effect me beyond trying to hurt me.

There comes a point where you must have thick skin to function properly in a society. Regardless of who you are, people will bash on you for simply breathing, there are places where this should be adressed (the work place, for example) but in some situations, you have to suck it up and deal with it.

That's part of being a adult.

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: Hey I've got nothing against world peac-YIKES! DUDE! You're really pushing your luck here!
.
.
.
.
Ah well. What the heck.
*SMOOOCH!*

@(Zombie) Jolan: But in all seriousness it is an overreaction. I am legitimately a bastard (ironic I know). But just because I was born to a single mother doesn't mean I hear bastard as a personal insult, its only being said because in that context it is a generic perfectly acceptable insult. Very few curse words have anything to do with their literal translations. When was the last time you were actually implying that the guy who cut you off on the road engaged in sexual acts with a maternal figure?

@fryerjackets: 1) They're not debating homophobes.

2) People did debate with racists. The only reason America isn't still segregated is because people saw the brutality and dehumanization of blacks on their TVs. Little girls being sprayed with fire hoses. Innocent people being beat, shot, and having dogs sicked upon them.

People still, in this modern world, think that blacks are genetically or inherently inferior. There was a bestselling book making this case called The Bell Curve that was released a few years ago. Segregation only ended 44 years ago (1968). We have a long way to go until its effects will be forgotten or negated.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@Outi: :D Can't we all just get along and bring about world peace ~_^.

And guess what, I knew when humans are the happiest and peacefullest ever!

giggdy :D

Why is it so damn fashionable to hate on Final Fantasy VII? It's like the cool thing to do nowadays. Someone started hating VII, established himself as different, and everyone thought it was cool. You know what? I'm gonna start liking VII more. That way I can say I started the trend of liking the game again.

tl;dr You're a tool with no individuality and I stopped reading your long post because of it.

EellenCaerus

@(Zombie) Goldwings: Nothing personal...

I deal with more "gay-bashing" in real life than I do in the gaming universe. Also I use the word "gay" (ironically mind you) and whenever people give me a hard time about using "gay" in a negative way I just clarify that I am gay and have every right to use it anyway I choose! It has become kind-of like the word "nigger", in the sense that it's only okay for gay people to use; which I think is ridiculous.

Personally: I have no problem with people using "that's so gay" and others just as long as they understand that there is nothing wrong with being gay. It's also a perfectly good word to refer to gay people.

olpmcg

@Kanji08: Okay, try this on. You get harassed all day at work, you get harassed all day at school you get harassed on the subway or bus, you get harassed every where you go, so much so that you have to hide your identity most of the time for fear of verbal and particularly physical harassment and assault. You go home and want to relax and play a game and then some dipshit kid who is woefully ignorant of anyone's strife and can't even begin to comprehend how hurtful and distraught all of that constant harassment can be, starts throwing slurs at you.

Your claim of knowing how it feels to be harassed because you're a Christian is laughable. How terribly difficult it must be to be occasionally derided. Face it, Christianity is widely accepted by the vast majority of people and the amount of any harassment you face is incredibly minimal compared to someone who is gay. How often have you been afraid for your life because you were Christian? How often have you had to hide away being Christian because of fear of harassment?

People may not be racist for shouting out slurs, but they sure as hell are ignorant assholes who should really take a moment to learn some history and understand the strife and menace that those words have held and the terror that has been inflicted on so many while those slurs were being shouted. I realize it's "funny" to use the n-word, but ask those that had police dogs and fire hoses turned on them, who were attacked and intimidated regularly on a daily basis how funny they think it is. You most certainly can ask them, too, as there are many blacks that still remember segregation and the aggression towards them after segregation ended.

This has nothing to do with growing some "thick skin." These people have plenty of thick skin already from dealing with those types of assholes for years. It's about giving them a damn break. It's about having a fucking ounce of respect and courtesy for someone else. Groundbreaking, I know, especially in this "me! me! me!" world of narcissism and Ayn Rand fueled egoism.

I realize that you aren't advocating this type of language, but neither should you be passively condoning it. If someone is beating someone up on a sidewalk, do something about it. Don't just shrug and walk on by. It's like that lady in New York who was raped in an apartment stairwell for over 30 minutes. People heard, people even walked out and saw what was happening. They went back inside and waited for it to be over rather than even attempting to do the minimal to right the situation. This type of harassment, whether leveled at Christians or at anyone, is unacceptable. It should NOT be tolerated in any way shape or form.

You say that jokes directed at your friend about getting AIDs ans stealing TVs doesn't affect him. Somehow, I doubt that. Maybe not if it his friends, but if random people were to say that to him, people he didn't know, I don't think he'd find it all that funny. Even more so if those people weren't joking, but saying those things as factual statements. Imagine coming home after hearing all day that you are an abomination, you are mentally sick, your existence is making the world a worse place and that people, people that you don't even know, wish you were dead or wish they could kill you. And I don't mean figuratively. They really, truly wish you were dead. And they've been saying this for over 15 or 20 years. Then I think you'll see a bit of the problem. It's not just people cracking jokes, it's people being menacing and threatening just for the sake of being cruel, and that is not something that should be acceptable on any level.

stupid_mcgee: uber pyro > flaming hunter ([k])

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: Guys, stop groping eachother.
This is an innocent group hug where people come together to celebrate the fact that our opinions were voiced-AAAGH!

SONOFABITCH!

Get your hands out of my pants... Hey! ... I mean BOTH hands... I don't WANNA "make harmony" with you!

While i have no real interest in being "PC" or anything like that...i think it definitely says something about a person when as soon as they are angry immediately jumps to calling people "n----r." Although there's definitely the possibility that you don't really mean anything by it, when you're constantly throwing out racial slurs whenever you're mad, by using those terms in that way you're definitely associating being black/gay/whatever with something "bad."

JamieDingo

@drag: I'd agree that violent games in general are not particularly dehumanising, but I think it is true that many of them do little to foster any sense of community or social connection in the way that a MMORPG might, for example. For me, part of the reason I don't game online that much is because most of the games I enjoy aren't really conducive to forming social connections that transcend the mere execution of whatever the arbitrary ingame task is. Whereas when I play multiplayer with friends in the same room, it feels like a genuine social activity. The game is enjoyable in itself, but also a catalyst for a more meaningful shared experience.

I'm sure that experience can be obtained through MMORPGs, or perhaps various other online games, but as I don't have much time or money these days, I don't think I'll be finding out any time soon.

dd528

@tehdorkz: I saw the gamertag 'Baby Jew Killer' on the 1 vs. 100 leaderboard for response time. Meaning they just mashed the X button and then got to show everyone their gamertag/pic. And because I wasn't actually playing with them, it was not easy top report.

(zombie) buddhathing

@Sutekh_Slain: then I take offense at all the Brits using wanker as a slur. ;)

@Sutekh_Slain: Gay means happy, fagot means stick. I don't define a homosexual dude as a gay or a faggot, I define him as a guy. I define me typing half of that previous comment, then losing it to clicking outside the box, very very gay though.

Maybe it's just that gay guys are so normal to me I don't really use that to classify them, I know gay people, if you asked me to tell you about them I probably wouldn't mention it unless you asked, because I wouldn't even think about it.

Basically, when I think homosexual men, I think Judas Priest (AWESOME RIGHT?) and when I hear the word gay, I think of being forced to play Super Man 64 during my break time of testing E.T.

@Moar_pr0nz: Acting like a piece of human trash in order to do better in a fucking a video game is one of most pathetic excuses I've ever heard. Just own up to being a racist, intolerant jackass and stop trying to excuze your disgusting behavior as a legitimate tactic so you'll be better at shooting guys.

@milomilomilo: Me too.

dd528

@Kanji08: Firstly I'm curious as to why you are so annoyed? Do debates on issues like this tend to impact on you in a significant way? I find them interesting, so tend to seek them out, but I would have imagined they are fairly easy to ignore if you so choose.

Anyway, to address some of your points. I apologise for the length in advance...

Some people have thick skins and some don't. That's the way it is. Some people will find a particular joke funny and some people will find it offensive. And the proportion in each group shifts depending on cultural sensibilities in the group in question, and at the time in question. For example, in 1983 when Eddie Murphy was performing his stand up show Delirious, the long segment which is basically a constant stream of homophobia played very well with the audience. 26 years and one monumental AIDS crisis later and it is painful to sit through. What is acceptable is not an absolute truth.

Even with anonymity and even with freedom of speech, people are not unreasonable if they get offended at certain things. Some people are (relatively) over-sensitive, sure, but that doesn't mean there isn't a line that you shouldn't cross. And just because you have one gay friend who isn't offended by a certain type of joke, doesn't mean that a large number of other people won't be offended, and reasonably so.

The issue of homophobic language is an important one for a few reasons. The first is that, unlike your example of being a Christian, sexual orientation is not a choice one makes. If I choose to convert to a new religion, I am aware of some of the antagonism that may cause. I can't opt out of my sexuality though.

EDIT: By the above I don't mean to suggest that religious discrimination is unimportant or should be tolerated. Just that it is of a different character to homophobic discrimination.

More important, though, is the fact that homophobia tends to be a sensitive issue for many people who it affects directly. Racial prejudice is now relatively societally unacceptable in a way that homophobic prejudice has yet to become (where I live, at least). The reason many black people use the word 'nigger' without it causing offence is because, to a large extent, it is a term that has been reclaimed by a certain group, and stripped of the connotations it once had. It is rare to hear it used as an actual term of racial abuse. Explicit homophobia remains rampant in many cultures though. Even in relatively progressive countries, there are many communities where open homophobia is the norm. Thus homophobic language is, for people gay and otherwise, charged in a way that certain racial epithets may no longer be.

It is also worth bearing in mind that, in such an environment, coming to terms with one's own sexual identity can be difficult in a way that goes far beyond coming to terms with one's ethnic or religious identity. In the latter two cases, one will probably find oneself emerging into a welcoming community with well established public presence. If you are gay though, there are many communities where you will feel that you cannot be who you are publicly. A lot of people spend years struggling to reconcile their sexual identity with an environment that they feel (rightly or wrongly) will be hostile to that identity, and it doesn't help if when they go to play a bit of Halo someone is hurling insensitive language down the mic the whole time.

dd528

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: I'm going to have to disagree with you on the use of gay as slang. Gay essentially means something undesirable when used in that context.

To me that's the same as if somebody said "that's so faggoty" or something similar.

Having something that defines who/what you are as an individual be used as a pejorative is wrong imo.

I used to use gay as a pejorative quite a bit, so I know what you're trying to say. I did it just because all my friends did, and still do occasionally. However, I'm trying to catch that and use that word less.

@Kanji08: I totally agree with everything you're saying. And I can admit that I'm guilty of being an asshole online just because internet makes it easy for me.
And yeah. The issue really isn't about gay people having to face homophobia on the internet. It's about people in general acting like dicks on the internet... because they can.
And I'd know if it was about homophobia since I'm bi and I've been in a relationship with a girl for 8 years. And I've never felt like the internet is a homophobic place... Or at least it's no more homophobic than the real life.
(And real life is only as homophobic as you make it. If you're too strict, too serious and have no sense of humor when it comes to your own homosexuality, then you're more likely to take a lot of comments as an insult even though they might not have been intended as such)

Honestly though, I don' think there's much that can be done about the general internet-shitheadedness without making major changes to internet itself.
People just need to decide for themselves wether they want to hold on to good manners on the internet or would they rather use the anonymity it gives as a chance to let off steam and start the trolling.

I personally am not proud to say that I can be a real prick on the internet sometimes. And I think (or at least HOPE) the majority of other internet-shitheads aren't exactly proud about their behaviour either. But nobody's going to change things for you (and I don't mean YOU here, I mean the universal you). You just have to start paying attention to what you say on the internet yourself and hope that your good manners will get you more respect and better treatment from others.

@SketchyIndividual: You never know, you could say something, and somebody could read it, and do something about it because of your comment.

You probably wont get any credit for it ever, or even know it was you that inspired that change, but you NEVER know.

@D Mitsuki : Gotta have guts kid!: Nice point. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people just can't handle seeing something that they're not used to. It used to be absolutely taboo to see a homosexual earlier in the century, and these days (with the exception of right wingers, or is it left? I don't pay attention to politics, one big load of bollocks imo) homosexuality is just becoming an everyday part of life. Sooner or later things will settle down and people will learn to accept things for what they are, and cold fusion will also be attained, along with flying cars, homelessness will no longer exist, no more crime....well..anyways. What I'm trying to say (I think) is that we can hope things will be better (not just for the gays, and other "minorities" (I use the term in quotations because the term itself in my eyes is degrating)) but probably never will be, but that it is nice to see that there are people around with open minds.

On a side note...I think you totally just spoiled the ending of the next Metal Gear game...

@ReynaldoRiv: Sometimes low hanging fruit is just a cigar.

(zombie) buddhathing

@AnalysisDialysis (and a MudkipNDS): Actually, I agree, at first it was a foreign concept to have an elite commenting class, but I've warmed up to it.

I'd much rather get the apples from a reputable source than have to hand pick em myself.

ReynaldoRiv

@bialia: Your a woman, and I'm a black, together we make harmony!!!

*hug*

The Spreading Taint?

Seriously?

...

Ya know what, Imma let this one go...

BoTheDestroyer

@Kanji08: It's not the PC era of gaming's fault, it's this worlds generations fault. We have no freedom of speech, so when we finally are given it, we vent, and act like we want.

You know what people say on the internet to you is? What they really want to say, and you know why it offends people so much? Because they know that, so they want make us able to say and do less and less, which intern makes us want to speak freely more and more.

I'm black as well, and I have taken a lot of those comments as well, but you know what? I would rather be called a ni**erfa**ot then have everything me and the guy calling me that policed.

@XHandxBananaX43-No more CrimsonChin85, indeed...: true dat, but for some reason some people deem it necessary to listen to all the senseless chatter.

Thank god for the Xbox Live Party System.

(SIC pic of Corey) \m/

Rompehamster

@DocBacca: I can confirm it was Bialia who has taken my "purity" in the past T___T
Michael. Why are you taking the blame for his-
...
hands off sir.

@Moar_pr0nz: There's a difference between throwing around these terms in a rage and just being a jackass for the hell of it, and actually actively using these things based on feeling of hate/prejudice, though both do make you look like a total jackass

@excel_excel: Yes! Yes? Yesssss.

spannu

Kevin Smith from Killer 7 is gay, and I love Kevin.

Not because he is gay, but because he is a silent killer who can turn invisible and throw knives at people.

Cloud Strife from Final Fantasy 7 is straight, and I hate Cloud Strife.

Not because he is straight, but because he's a whiny bitch who needs to learn how to get over things and stop acting like a 4 year old.

I personally don't mind the sexual orientation of my game characters. Hell, not my singers or actors too (Judas Priest ftw!) There are some people out there who will mind, and they will always mind, because of the social impacts religion had on our society. I think it comes to a point where we all have to accept no matter how much you tell some people, they will not understand you and will always be against you. This of course doesn't mean you would stop fighting for equality in things like marriage rights, but honestly there will always be people on Xbox Live going "HEY FAGG0TZ U GUYS R NOOBS GO DIE GO DIE GO DIE."

The one thing that bothers me is that people try to get defensive about using the terms gay in slang. It annoys the hell out of me when I'm ignorant because I said "That is some gay stuff man." or something. No, I'm not homophobic, I don't hate gays, I walked around with No on 8 signs for goodness sake, a simple slang term that has been changed to mean something else completely shouldn't determine someones entire person. Yeah, just had to say that.

So personally, I believe that if you can handle a characters traits responsibly, you can make him marketable to any radiance.
Imagine if Snake was gay, but it wasn't revealed to the end of the game, and it wasn't laid on people with tutu's and crap, but rather a mature situation with him and his partner. Yes, people would be shocked, but would they like Solid Snake any less? For me personally, no, after all he has done throughout the game he would still be the same amazing character, to some that could change their whole perspective, but I guarantee you it will be a better reaction then something like those two dudes from God Hand.

@MrBionic:

Mister Bionic runs off like a little Girl to cry

Must... resist urge... to reach for... low hanging frut

ReynaldoRiv

@AnalysisDialysis (and a MudkipNDS): Haha, Totally agreed, I used to enjoy Engadget (and it's sister sites) more than the Gawker sites, but over the last few months, I;ve been enjoying the posts, and the commenters here so much more

@Kanji08:


Sir you are absouloutley right.

There are two main reasons that racsism is less of a problem today than it was.

Because people demonstrated, and protested, and also because they didn't debate with racists on their terms.

So why are gay people debating with homophobes on their terms?

fryerjackets

@MrBionic: Very

*hands 1000 gold pieces*
I still remember what I owe.

@DocBacca: Oops... sorry..

Now this, THIS, is why I stick to Kotaku and not to other gaming sites. Because the different commenting system here allows for a greater gamer community that can easily cooperate and chat with each other, and not be separated by the madness of the trolls that try to fling mud and pound sand in desperate attempts to start wars.

And the star commentators, while sometimes veering off the golden road, have proven to be a dependable bunch in times of need, and in dire straits of discussion in the community in general.

Off my head, [bialia, Curse_Lily, excel_excel, Masterdex, the7k (a recent newcomer from Jan!), LIIusionX, Komrade Kayce, Witzbold, Archaotic, and BubbleF**kingBuddy (my condolences for not being able to change your name anymore!)] for Kotaku. In Gizmodo, there exists OMG! Ponies (perhaps the greatest commentor to have lived), and his pal GitEmSteveDave, and Kaiser-Machead, and some others which are equally important. And don't forget about the multinationals! (I'm looking at you, fuchikoma.) Apologies if I forgot anyone's names.

Sorry, Joystiq/Engadget, but this is why I love Kotaku. Well, that, and your crappy commenting system compared to the Gawker Network. (And hats off to the Lifehacker and Gizmodo community, as well! Kudos to everyone for making this such a better place to comment in!)

@bialia: Yeah, group hug.
Hey! Who grabbed my ass?

DocBacca

@bialia: GROUP HUG!

Fuck being PC, if I or anyone else has the urge to call someone "Gay" or a "n----r" online or shout out "Dumbledore dies!", i should be able to do it. Playing shooting games online can cause quick stress on the mind because timing means everything, meaning people are going to be extra impulsive, as opposed to playing a slow-paced game like chess. When people are impulsive, they tend to spout out the first thing that comes to mind that the brain believes can satisfy their impulsive "urges". Thus, slurs are going to be tossed around quite frequently. Deal with it.

Moar_pr0nz

@(Zombie) Goldwings: You're a zombie touring motorcycle, how insightful could you ever have been?

@Kanji08: I wonder what would happen if that hidden wall of anonymity was torn down, because that wall usually acts as a portal to our true (dark) inner feelings.

@brainboy77: Really? I always thought it worked both ways.
The issue at hand is our gaming society which unfortunately boils down to half of them losing 10-15 years off their age and become incoherent, racist, homophobic, whiny children.
Online gaming is like the internet. Most of them are wearing masks and think they can say whatever they want. Only difference is that you can hear them sound like idiots.

@brainboy77: Then explain to me why last week on BF1943 some guy sent a message to me containing (and I quote), "your gay" after I killed him?

Your logic is rather flawed.

Swamphunter

Ah, Kotaku, good on ya.

We've got a good and diverse crowd here.

*Group hug!*

bialia

@drag: Agreed. And his response was dead on. I stopped playing Halo online because of all the immature players.

I'm really annoyed by the "PC" era that we're in to be honest. Why can't people just get some thick skin and deal with crap the way everyone else has to? Now, I'm not talking about serious issues here. Things like gay rights and such in the real world, but in a videogame setting? C'mon.

People aren't homophobic because they call people gay/fag no more than they are racist for spouting off the n-word like it's going out of style. It's the internet. People say shit with the intent of pissing others off. You know what most of us do? We deal with it.

I'm a Christian . . . on the internet. Do you know how many times I've been mocked for my beliefs, heard the flying spaghetti monster speech/argument, or seen the internet hate machine get together to talk about how terrible and evil and stupid religious people are?

You know what I do though? Deal with it. Who gives a shit. One of my best friends is gay . . . and black for that matter. I can't count the number of times I've heard AIDs jokes and remarks about stealing tvs thrown his way. He's not bothered by it in the least though.

Why does everyone get so butthurt by these issues? Or more importantly, if people feel this is something that needs to seriously be addressed, why is this only about LGBT issues? Why not discuss how the internet is making everyone racist cause 12 year olds are dropping the n-bomb on Halo.

The internet isn't making anyone homophobic anymore than it is racist or anything else. Stupid people will say stupid shit when hidden behind a wall of anonymity because they can. And that's really all it amounts to.

EDIT: This rant is generally directed to the portion dealing with online behavior in games. Not necessarily issues about gay characters *in* games and other sections in the article. Just to clarify for the sake of clarity (redundant statement is redundant).

Kanji08

@lionkitten: er.........yes?

Congrats to Nnooo's comment who made me think about how it might of set the gaming world in ablaze if our gaming icons were homosexuals.

Also I can't believe I missed that whole post until today. Now I can't put up any of my insightful comments on the issue.
Then I remembered something.
I was never insightful :P

There's an easy way to not have to deal with hate speech and slurs in a game. Just set your shit to private. It's amazing how fast the ignorance disappears.

@tehdorkz:
Yeah, seriously. DeMarco seems to have been quick on his feet to put her straight though to his credit.

drag

@brainboy77: What internetz you be playing on? Most of the time people online are scrubs who, if they lose, hate more not less.

@tehdorkz:

Yea, I feel they need to fix names like that more then Steven Gaywood's for having the word gay in his name.

@drag: I see where you're coming from now. It's just that quote really stood out to me. It was like getting hit with a brick of dumb.

@tehdorkz:

Yeah I'm just being pedantic for no reason because your response seemed to skip right over the main issue in the middle there which should go "how does shooting each other in a video game have any dehumanising effects in the first place"

drag

If you want to stop the hate, just be a better gamer. Respect in video game solely lies in skill. People diss gays and African-Americans only if those who are receiving the hate are of less skill. By hating on someone, you are expressing your superiority. As the haters start to get owned, they give less a crap about trash-talking and more on sharpening their skills. Even if someone still lays the hate after getting beat, they sound like idiots because you are better than them and they sound desperate. If you're not that competitive, I have no idea why you would play online shooters to begin with. Now, getting better does not solve the root cause of hate, but neither does holding press conferences. People will just drone you out for being too whiny instead of actually doing something tangible to solve the problem.

brainboy77

Hrmph. All of my stunningly relevant and heart-felt arguments FOR NAUGHT!

*runs off like a little girl to cry*

Is there a link to a transcript of this panel/conference, or maybe an audio recording. I'd be interested in litening to it, it sounds pretty interesting.

milomilomilo

@Soldier_CLE: How are they trying to make people feel bad? That's not the point of this conference at all.

Even the name of the conference is "The Impact of Homophobia..." suggesting that the focus is on creating a safe space for all players - not for calling in the cyber-police. They are trying to change people's understandings of virtual spaces to realize the impact they have on others - positively and negatively.

There isn't one item in this article that attacks anyone or tries to make people "feel bad" about their language.

@Soldier_CLE:"While I understand that the GLBT community doesn't want to be chastised, I have to wonder if the conference actually will be enough to make their target audience feel bad in their language towards social deviancy?"

I HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt it. A lot of the people that use hateful language towards homosexuals, and even people of other races won't be swayed by a panel saying that what they're doing is bad.

On a related note, it's total bullshit how MS will stop someone with a gamertag that even hints at homosexuality but will let a gamertag like "BameTheJews" (which I have encountered while playing CoD5, amongst other very racist gamertags) onto their server.

I think I'll go and dehumanize myself with some videogames.

I am this close to actually becoming Donkey Kong.

And when I finally do I will proceed to throw barrels at Crecente, because his mustache is the closest.

@Soldier_CLE: I have to wonder if the conference actually will be enough to make their target audience feel bad in their language towards social deviancy?

I think a better question is, will the target audience even hear about the conference? The few guys I know that use that kind of language on Live aren't ones that'd seek out or even click on a story like this if they were online.

That said, the problem is more of a societal one than with any one group of people. Conferences like this are or the PSAs that the government has been running recently are steps in the right direction, but it's going to be a long time before those in the LGBT community are accepted to the point where the slurs are no longer commonplace. Heck, look at President Obama - the civil rights movement was a few decades ago, and look at the language directed towards Obama's daughter for WEARING A T-SHIRT.

Don't get me wrong - I applaud the conference, and everybody involved with it. It's just one very small piece of the puzzle, though.

spiderweb1986

@excel_excel: Good on those whose comments were used to point out the inanity of the conversation going on?

yes. good on them.

@drag: You do know that "gay bashing" is usually considered a simpler way of saying homophobia, which is exactly was she was talking about.

She apparently somehow connected killing each other virtually to hating homosexuals, which is just... just awesome.

I'm sooooo happy people like her are around to think these things up.

@drag: Read the quote again. She asked if the dehumanizing aspect brought about gay bashing. Meaning that my question is valid.

@Heliophage: I don't care for Halo meself and I guess I could the untasteful "Halo is for fegs" route..but that's just dumb.

I mean I could almost see it if some guy made his character bright pink...but that's about it. But this lady is assuming that games like Halo BROUGHT about gay bashing. Meaning encouraged it. Gays in gaming is still a total taboo, very very very few games have homosexual aspects in them. I can really only think of about 4 (Fable series, Sims series, KOTOR, and the new GTA expansion) though I'm sure someone will correct me here. And none of these games to my knowledge encourages beating gays.

I don't understand people at all.....


edit: I suppose you could beat your gay lover in Fable if you wanted to, but that is more domestic violence than gay bashing I suppose, well unless your character is one of those self hating gays...and even then..that's not encouraged

Edit, it posted this one in the wrong place.

drag

Damnit. I give up, screw the commenting system!

@tehdorkz:

Um. They don't.
But she was talking about dehumanisation. Which has nothing to do with what you said.

drag

@SketchyIndividual: Why did this go here?!

Fucking aye Gawker comment system... you add an edit button while fucking everything else sideways.

@Soldier_CLE:

How about Gilbert Gottfried?

WHAT ARE YOU, A HOMO?

M1911

@tehdorkz: I can think of some ways but lets just leave that subject alone.

"Senior Director of Communications & Industry Affairs for the Entertainment Software Association"

HOLY CRAP THAT'S A LONG TITLE. Imagine if he had a doctrine, was knighted and a private investigator. Sir Dr. Senior Director of Communications & Industry Affairs for Entertainment Software Association P.I. Hewitt.

I was going to type out a long, in-depth comment about the outstanding amount of hypocrisy exists in this, the politically correct era, but y'know what? I'm not going to, because it wont matter one way or another.

I just take things like this with a grain of salt these days, it's not worth trying to have a discussion anymore.

@tehdorkz:

I guess if you're shooting homosexuals, it connects easily. Though, to my knowledge, nobody in Halo expresses their sexuality.

Except for that one Brute in Halo 3 that shouts "he was my lover!" rarely.

@Soldier_CLE: DON KANONJI......BW-HA-HA-HA!

" One lady asked if the "dehumanizing" aspect of violent games like Halo brought about gay bashing"

Someone please tell me how does one's mind connect shooting each other in a video games connect even remotely to homophobia

@Soldier_CLE: Not gunna lie, I chuckled a bit.

Great read, good on those who made those comments, well done

Psh, Gay.

M1911

I'm going to respond to this in simplest form (in the spirit of George Carlin and Lewis Black):

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.........!

Okay, that out of my system...

While I understand that the GLBT community doesn't want to be chastised, I have to wonder if the conference actually will be enough to make their target audience feel bad in their language towards social deviancy?

WE SHOULD ALL BE LOVING EACH OTHER! Now take off your damn pants and quit fussin'.

@Phantom_Photon: It would be pretty amazing if your sexuality never came up in any conversation. Have you ever had a relationship and referred to that person by his/her name or gender? This morning at work I heard 3 different people talk about their weekends with their straight partners. I think that's perfectly normal conversation. I talked about my partner too; where I work it's no one has ever acted like it's anything but normal (one of the reasons I moved to Portland). I've heard many people that I'm just meeting in a professional context refer to their husband or wife. I don't know them but I know they're straight. I'm usually a bit more hesitant to mention my partner in the exact same way because I don't know their beliefs and I don't like to be judged.

Can you imagine what it must feel like to not to know whether someone is going to judge you as a pervert/sinner/morally depraved/mentally ill/pitiful/sexual deviant just from having normal conversation? It sucks.

Obviously you're not against gay people, but I think many people who aren't gay don't realize just how often it comes up, and how much of yourself you have to hide if you don't want people to know.

anabbeynormality

@Torak3015: Did you stop to consider that because heterosexuality is the "default" and pre-assumed sexuality of everyone from birth, people flaunting their "gayness" are, on some level, sending "cues," visual and otherwise, to other members of their community to say "I am one of you?"

Perhaps if you understood why this happens, you'd be less likely to be annoyed by it?

bialia

@Phantom_Photon: As has been said here time and time again, heterosexuality is the default. It is the assumed sexual orientation. Homosexuals who choose to accept who they are must declare their sexuality to the people in their lives- this is an issue that heterosexuals just are not faced with.

Being openly gay doesn't mean you shout it from the rooftops or wear it on a shirt. It doesn't have mean any more than you not hiding your sexual preference from anyone when it comes up in conversation. It means if you're out for a drink with some new co workers and one of them asks if you want to be hooked up with some friend of theirs you tell them you're gay and aren't interested in dating women. You hide nothing.

bialia

@Zorantor: I appreciate your post and the activism. Perhaps one day all 'minorities' will have the same equality and equal rights that are deserved. With discussions and panels like these, and articles like kotaku is posting about gay and female issues in videogames, it at least gives more visibility to the problem. So we can do something about it in our own way, even if it is just by interacting with each other on a more humanizing level via these discussions.

@Blyr wants Disgaea 2: It seems rather silly to me, too.

@lionkitten: I look at the title and premise, and I can also look between the lines.

The conference is also intended as a way to open a forum; which is intended to give a message, no matter how ancillary, to voice indirectly that it hurts the feelings of other gamers in question.

On another note, it is funny that you mention "homophobia"... I don't believe that all who disagree with the GLBT agenda as being "homophobes". Sure, some are, but there are many different gradients. For example, some might not hate the social/sexual deviancy of others, but also might not approve of it; akin to how a person might not hate excessive drinkers, yet don't approve of their gluttonous livations.

Then you have people like me, who don't hate the GLBTs (Hell, I date a bisexual woman!), yet don't buy into everything that Marshall Kirk lays out before the public.

But again, it is ancillary.

There is a saying in the academic world that "What is already understood should not have to be explained." Think about that.

@tehdorkz:

While I don't buy into all of the GLBT community's agenda, I can agree that there is a point where playful dialogue (some with the mix of what seems like tourettes-on-tour) becomes downright harassing.

Granted, when you mention words of other races, I will tell you that I am of (highly) mixed heritage, and I tend to have a thicker skin.

One thing that often helps is when you are a better player than them. I've taken great pride in winning different on-line melees, and responding on the mike that they just got (insert action here) by a part-(insert what insult they had here)!

Back on topic: I find it okay to disagree if it is something you agree with (GLBT agenda included). But I also agree that there is a better way to voice disagreement.

@spiderweb1986: I believe that most of the target audience received the message. Afterall, we are reading this. Sure, some/most of us might not be shouting things at a television set; but the idea for any said conference is to start dialogue. They succeeded.

All said, I am on the fence on this. On one hand, I can see how a group of people want to garner sympathy for their cause, which primarily has to do with acceptance. On the other hand, I am fully aware of the social/sexual deviancy and the taboos that come across from the GLBT community, and society's unwillingness to accept it; despite the last three decades of attempts to make it mainstream.

I am also aware of the Marshall Kirk standard, which many people are not, and frankly, it is enough to enable me to debate with those attempting to gain sympathy; even as I date a bisexual girlfriend on the homosexual agenda.

I respect the GLBT agenda as far as not wanting to be called names online. That said, I don't buy into all of the GLBT agenda.

@Tiber: I wish someone would promote your comment.

@Phantom_Photon: It's not necessary, but what does it hurt? People like to define themselves by setting themselves apart, as well as the like minded people they relate to. People sometimes use the word nerd negatively, so now people openly label themselves nerds, and make it a point of pride. Gamers themselves are often portrayed as fat, lazy introverts who live in their parents' basement.


Sometimes you just have to stand up for yourselves to prove them wrong. When was the last time you saw a gay character on TV that wasn't a flamboyant caricature? Sometimes it's hard to be seen as a complex, interesting person when others try, unintentionally or not, to reduce you to that.

Tiber

This is getting a little off topic, but I fail to see the big interest in being "openly gay".

I could care less what you do in your own bedroom, nor does it "bother" me to see two men kissing, women holding hands, etc.

However, I am not "openly straight", a friend of mine does not proclaim her bisexuality on tshirts or on her gamertag. It's not something you normally bring up in conversation. I cannot remember ever bringing up my sexual orientation in casual conversation.

Gay, lesbian, straight or bisexual. It just doesn't matter. Once people stop identifying themselves by their sexual preference, and start seeing themselves as complex, interesting people (of which being gay is only a facet of the whole), then we can all move on from this silly debate.

Oh, and to the haters and homophobes out there. Seriously, what is your problem? If you weren't going to kiss him when you thought he was straight, why would you suddenly be scared of him sexually now that you know he is gay?

Woot, Kotaku commenters represent! I'm rather tickled that my comment made it into the panel.

The founder of my WoW guild (The Spreading Taint) was supposed to be on the panel, but somehow there was a mixup. So I'm glad that he got a shout-out.

I also miss Flynn, but it's good to know he's still out there doing his thing.

ach77

@BoTheDestroyer: The Spreading Taint has been around five years. We've heard it all already.

apollonia666

@Zorantor: Well said, but I disagree with you on one point. Racism and sexism aren't unacceptable these days, they've just shifted into an institutionalized version of the former open hostility. You won't see a lynch mob out these days, but also won't see minorities and women getting paid the same as white, male counterparts. I think this is part of the reason that open homophobia is so shocking; we're just not as used to seeing blatant discrimination as much. Either way, it needs to stop.