FCC Report Praises Video Game Ratings

If the ESRB is so great, why the hell are 12 year olds playing Left 4 Dead?

Hardly any stores Require a license to purchase an M Rated game (Best Buy and Gamestop are all i know of). And they don't educate parents at all!

The ESRB fails in every goal they attempt to meet.

-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12'

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, but I'll respond anyways.

It's hard to say where the line is between the ESRBs responsibility to educate parents and the parents' responsibility to educate themselves.

Considering the information is on the back of every box, I find it hard to believe any parent who is actually attentive would miss the ratings.

Requiring ID to purchase M rated games has nothing to do with the ESRB.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

notquitedeadyet

Where's all the government regulatory hate now? I'm so sick of all this anti-government bullshit in this country. It's the new fad. Hate the media, hate the government, but if not for the two we would be screwed. I would understand mistrusting our government if this were South America or Eastern Europe, but when IN THIS COUNTRY has the government infringed on our rights. We need to get over this quick or we are going to be mired in a political struggle for every issue and nothing will ever get done.

GoonerVance

@GoonerVance: I agree that it tends to go overload, but I'll admit that all of the warrentless wiretapping Bush engaged in made me -damn- scarred for my rights. We've been fortunate, but I think we still have to be vigilant to keep it that way. Kind of a "We have our eye on you" sort of thing.

It -does- get a bit overboard at time, though, as seen here: [www.time.com] I would agree that the prep assignments from the Education department are ridiculous, but how can you possibly argue against a nonpartisan message from the president to freaking stay in school?!

Tanneseph

@GoonerVance: I like the your style.

@Shin-san: Well, yeah, that's the problem with my argument isn't it. After the Bush years people have every right to be mistrustful of the government. The problem is it's always the Republicans screaming "Over-governance" when it was the Republican party that created the mistrust in the first place.

GoonerVance

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': Because those ratings are merely suggestions for parents, and legal quidelines for stores. Even though the 12 year old can't purchase the game on his own, the parent has every legal right to do so. It's their moral and parental responsibility to be aware of the kind of game that they are buying, though often times it seems like they don't care, as long as their child is happy.

@GoonerVance: Patriot Act, though yeah, SOCIALISM is being screamed too often now

Shin-san

@eclipsegryph: Yes, but is it not the ESRB's job to teach those parents what the ratings are for?

-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12'

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': I agree with Sir Cuddles but I also feel Skyline has a good point as well. How is the ESRB succeeding if kids are buying these mature rated games at alarming rates?

We have to put blame on the parents, without a doubt they are responsible for seeking out what type of games they are allowing their children to play. On the other hand, is the ESRB doing enough?

Outkastprince

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': The ESRB rates the games - BestBuy and GameStop choose to check ids to keep the FCC off our backs (it seems to have worked).

Have you ever even walked in to GameStop? BestBuy I'm not sure off, but we at GS are constantly under pressure to inform parents about ratings. I can't tell you how many times I've told a parent about graphic violence, language or nudity being in a game, only to have them shrug in the general direction of their 8 year old and say, 'yeah, he plays them all the time, anyway.'

My job isn't to raise someone's kid. It's not the ESRB's job to raise someone's kid. It's the parents job, and while some are doing a great job, others are failing horribly.

Kovitlac

@GoonerVance: History shows us that every ruling power has inpinged on its citizens rights. Modern govts are no different. Some more so than others but no govt on this planet is wearing wings and halo's :) The amount of control and power the govt has must always be balanced against the rights of the people.

@GoonerVance: "...but when IN THIS COUNTRY has the government infringed on our rights."

Slavery?

Erik Olson

@Tanneseph: Exactly the point. An innocent presidential message to children in school, has now turned into a political opportunity. With the internet and this constant flow of information has come a lot of people who think they know what's best for the country when they haven't even left their computer desk.

GoonerVance

@thesircuddles: To bounce off of thesircuddles, I went to see District 9 yesterday. It's R rated, and had scenes that were difficult for my husband and I (both 27) to watch. We saw it as a matinee showing, and in the audience there was (wait for it)..... a four year old. A four year old whose parents should be beaten, repeatedly.

The movie was rated R. While the "why" of it is harder to find than on a video game rating, by the time you're thinking of bringing a 4 yr old along, I don't know that it matters.

I guess what I'm saying is, no matter how much information and regulation you have, at the end of the day we can't physically take all responsibility from the parents - and clearly some parents are monsters!

(It does seem like for that freaking R rating to mean anything, not even parental accompaniment should allow under 13s to enter, for God's sakes. But, parents can buy their 4 yr old Left 4 Dead, too, or play it in front of them. You can't stop stupid.)

Tanneseph

@GoonerVance: So the government blackmailing states to either side with them or loose highway tax money isn't any bit immoral?

I hate the government when it screws up and deserves to be hated. I love the system itself - just not always the fools who run it.

Kovitlac

@Outkastprince: Like eclipse mentioned, parents or anyone over 18 can buy M rated games for a minor. They could have any random person do it for them, regulation can only go so far.

As far as I'm concerned I don't think it should be up to the ESRB to educate parents. When I worked at EB we had pamphlets out regarding the ESRB ratings and always educated parents who were buying GTA for their 12 year old. They mostly just don't care. Of course these are the same parents who then complain about violence in games, but I digress.

I think the ESRB is doing plenty. They have a website, ratings on the box, ads, I mean what the fuck more are they supposed to do? It's up to parents to be receptive and actually care, and mostly they don't.

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': "If the ESRB is so great, why the hell are 12 year olds playing Left 4 Dead?"

They are playing it because some adult failed to do their jobs and let them. Wether it was the parents or other relatives, or a clerk at the store someone put it in the childs hands.

ESRB rates games as appropriately as they can and they do a good job of it.

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': Perhaps 12 year olds are playing because their PARENTS deemed killing zombies, in what's basically cooperative self defense, fine with their child. Sure, a lot of parents just do whatever their kid whines about, but if 58% of parents find the ratings useful, it means that 58% of them understand them and I'll trust the parent to know their child better than you do.

until.december

@Erik Olson: Our government didn't create slavery, but continue thinking outside the box.

GoonerVance

@thesircuddles: I've seen an advertisement for the ESRB Once, and it was on an Airplane and it was sponsored by Activison. It was also 5 years old.

Also The ESRB site is currently down.... could be a problem?

-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12'

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': If you're going to ignore all other points and focus on the one you have a counter point to then there isn't really much point discussing anything, is there?

@GoonerVance: Oh, I got more: The draft, Patriot Act, literacy exams at polling places for black people...

Erik Olson

@-itis: No other country in history has been created with the amount of checks and balances that put the power in the people's hands, while protecting the people from themselves (i.e. electoral college). I have lots of faith in the people who formed this government, the John Adams and Thomas Jeffersons, to quote Vader,"I find your lack of faith disturbing"

GoonerVance

@Erik Olson: You should read my second post, and I think the nature of your dissonance is the bane of modern politics. Everyone thinks they have all the answers when they don't even know all the questions. Democracy works, not because one person has all the answers, but because every person has one answer, and when you put all the answers together you get a clear view of the world around you.

GoonerVance

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': How about parents teach themselves about what their kids are doing? Stop passing the buck onto retailers as all that does is add restrictions that screw the rest of us.

I'm a little bored with a society that seems to think that other peoples kids are everyone's responsibility.

duckncover

@GoonerVance: That may be true but those that founded it are not the ones running it. Also before this becomes an arguement I am not talking of any specific country or specific politician. I do believe that we all pay far to little attention to what our leaders are actually *doing* instead of what they are arguing about on TV.

@GoonerVance: when in this country has the government infringed on our rights.....huh.

You know, the Supreme Court has been making rulings on exactly these issues for quite awhile, now. Just because you don't hear about it daily doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

And it has.

Your local library likely has an extensive section dedicated to the U.S. Reports, as well as other unofficial Supreme Court publications which document all Supreme Court rulings. You might be surprised at what you'd find in them.. Here. I'll redirect you to one of the more offensive legal cases in recent memory concerning individual property rights:

Kelo v. City of New London, 545 U.S. 469 (2005)

Incidentally, none of this has anything to do with the topic of ESRB rating and the FCC response. My apologies to the community for lengthening an irrelevant topic. I just felt this needed to be addressed.

mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta

@duckncover: It adds an ID check... how is that screwing everyone over?

-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12'

@Outkastprince: Some blame also falls on the retailers who are complicit in selling mature games to underaged gamers because no one is twisting their arms not to. Then people get butt hurt when the government steps in. Companies can also enforce these ratings if they so choose, so if the parents don't care and the retailer just wants the money, who's left to raise the kids? Of course the government, but at no fault of their own.

GoonerVance

@thesircuddles: So....

"Elected officials across the country, including Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, and groups like PTA have joined ESRB in helping educate the public about the rating system to great effect."

What the hell happened to that?

Parents should be held partially accountable i agree with you, but the ESRB has not gone far enough to change anything whatsoever.

Take some money that the ESA is using for lobbying, and spend it on PSAs, or other forms of media to show parents what the hell their kids are playing.

-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12'

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': So you want the ESRB to pay for additional airtime that will need to be passed onto the games companies who will pass onto us, the consumer?

Maybe the government should pay by using your taxes?

How about the parents take an interest in what their children are doing and get off their backsides to learn about the ratings?

duckncover

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': The fact that you think a third party should be showing parents what their kids are playing is laughable.

How about the parents find out for themselves? Like I said the information isn't hard to find, it's on the back of every box.

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': I'm done also, But anyone is welcome to duke it out on this rubble that was at one point a comment

-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12'

I kinda agree. The video game system doesn't seem as fancy, but it is very clear.

Shin-san

@duckncover: It takes a village to raise a child, especially if the child is being raised by irresponsible parents. Then again there are so many variables in raising a child it makes this particular issue look extremely trivial (especially as I'm not one who believes just because you play a violent game you're gonna be violent). I don't know if this is the product of us ignoring the problem for so many years (the problem of children growing up so damned fast because of the information and entertainment age) or survival of the fittest (those with the best parents are the strongest). I personally don't feel the sins of the father should apply to the son, but the problem seems overwhelming.

GoonerVance

@GoonerVance & @-Skyline-: While it's true that some retailers (mostly small chains) aren't going to always be enforcing the 18+ rule, the large majority of major ones do. At EB we were forced (as in it's part of your job) to always ensure no M games go to underage kids without the consent of someone 18+.

I agree that retailers have responsibility, but I think a very large percentage are doing their part.

EDIT: I'm going to go play me some Batman so consider me out of the convo. I don't think it should be the ESRB's job to educate parents. Parents should be intelligent enough to educate themselves. The information is there, most of them simply don't care or aren't looking.

@thesircuddles: Well that's good, and I do remember having to get my mum to buy a game for PS2 a while back.

GoonerVance

@mintycrys is HOT for Bayonetta: The Supreme Court is a part of the checks and balances system. I suppose you want to put a ballot in each person's hand for every issue that comes up.

Put it this way. The country ran a lot smoother before everyone obsessed about the day to day workings of congress (before the information age). How this is related to the story is "the FCC was looking into a universal ratings system", which turns into OMG the government is gonna turn the country into a police state, everyone to the shelters, and don't forget to bring your gold bars.

GoonerVance

I think ESRB rating are very informative but also there is need to be more responsible... like legal responsibility.
As far as i know, Gamestop ask for an ID check when buying M rated games which is good but it is not mandatory. Now someone in another thread which i can't seem to find said it is the fault of the parents to buying the M rated game to 12 years old. I agree but this is done because they don't give a crap as there are no punishment for this.

Take for example, if i go and buy beer for minors and they kill someone because of this (i.e. getting their parent's car and kill someone) the parents go to jail and there are some serious punishment because of hits, parents at fault, we don't see the media bashing the beer company about this or the stores.

On the other hand, if a kid goes road rage because he played GTA4 (M Rated game), media bashes the game company, parents bashes the game company and everyone says "hey, ban the games, too much violence, etc.". If there was serious punishment because of this, a fine to parents, jail time? at the end you should be breaking the law right?
but then again people are afraid to ask for this as it will be accepting as a fact that "video games = violent behavior".

I don't know but what happens if a minor enters to a cinema to watch a porno film, do they bash the cinema or the movie maker?

I think as long as the line is not defined (legal line), it would be like buying a candy to a children even if they are not supposed to eat sugar.

@GoonerVance: I expect a civil war in the US within the next few years.

@thesircuddles: "I don't think it should be the ESRB's job to educate parents. Parents should be intelligent enough to educate themselves. The information is there, most of them simply don't care or aren't looking."

I think this has always been the problem for parents. There are so many hats parents have to wear in order to do their job. You have your career, which is always a work in progress learning more and more about your field. You have to know how to cook otherwise you're probably eating unhealthy. You have to be active and keep your child active. You have to be a teacher. Then you have to gather enough information on a topic i.e. video games, music, movies, in order to make an informed decision as to what is appropriate for your child. Meanwhile I know there are a lot of people who can barely handle just their career. Maybe we need to start rebranding the American dream to not include having children unless you are of the utmost competency that you can handle raising a child and what that entails. It's your right to have a child of course, but it always seems to be at the expense of the child.

GoonerVance

@KamuZ: Giving ESRB ratings the force of law would be giving government power to a private entity, which is very much against the constitution. No dice.

MechaTama31

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': Done? Maybe because your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on?

Any parent worthy of being so is capable of reading the giant labels on the box and make up their own mind. Putting the blame on the ESRB is absolutely laughable as it is not their job to spend millions, possibly billions on educating parents who refuse to fulfill a very basic action of parenting.

Also, as a parent, I wouldn't have a problem with my 12 year old playing Left 4 Dead if I thought they were mature enough to handle it. That is part of my responsibility as a parent and it is not yours or the ESRB's.

@GoonerVance: As a parent I have no pity for someone unable to look up a game once or twice a month (lucky child) to approve whether or not their child should play the game.

I'm sorry it's just not that hard, and there are a lot of more difficult things that parents have to do that they have no trouble getting done. I swear most parents could spend more time just convincing their child to brush their teeth than in the time it takes to look up what's in a game, and if they "can't be bothered" than they desperately need some parental counseling to rethink their priorities.

@-Skyline-: Voted Crecente 12': I think the ESRB has done just fine. If a parent is too thick-headed to know "M - 18+" means the game is intended for people over 18, then there's not much else anyone can do for them. I'm surprised they survived long enough to procreate at that point.

Furthermore, I don't really see the problem with people under the age of 18 playing mature rated games. When I was but a wee lad, I wasn't allowed to see violent imagery and scary movies and the like. It wasn't until I matured a bit that my parents realized I could handle things like that. I was in my early teens at this point, and I was fine to watch horror movies or play violent video games. I understood the difference between media and real life, fiction and truth.

I think the ESRB has set a standard of guidelines, but nothing will replace the parents' understanding of their child and what they can or cannot handle. And again, if said parents aren't intelligent or aware enough to utilize and understand the guidelines put in place by the ESRB to protect their child, well, that's not the ESRB's fault. Furthermore, that child probably has worse things to worry about with parents like that than a few violent video games.

@KamuZ: Your completely wrong really, it's not supposed to be enforced. See it's a legal for a child to drink alcohol, but NOT illegal for them to play a game. It's like an R movie, they can't go in by themselves but if their parents take them it's all honkey dorey.

Your thinking completely wrong about it being banned from kids. Though a lot of parents do seem to not care that truly is their own fault, they're idiots. Videogames would probably be banned anyway, most of the kids that go apeshit are 17 anyway.... and it's the scapegoat atm.

@GoonerVance: "I suppose you want to put a ballot in each person's hand for every issue that comes up"

That would be a true democracy. Sadly, as abysmal as our level of education is on average, giving a ballot to everyone would be our ruin.

Erik Olson

@MechaTama31: you mean like fire fighters?

diagorus

@GoonerVance: Honestly, the only bullshit that's being thrown around here is from you. You need to pay more attention to the news and pick up a history book or two. Our country has never "run smoothly" not should that even be our goal. Every issue is a political struggle by nature - it represents costs and trade offs that affect real people. How can that be apolitical? This government has infringed upon the rights of its citizens countless times. SOME of that has been documented and SOME of that has been corrected.

People have "every right" to be mistrustful of government regardless. Government is a necessary evil whose power comes from threat of force. EVERY GOVERNMENT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD has violated the rights of its citizens. The founding fathers of our country who you laud with designing a great government did a good job, but even they believed that 1. government was a necessary evil that should be WATCHED not trusted. 2. eventually even their creation would grow powerful and corrupt enough that it would have to be destroyed. An "anti-government" position is not only not new, it is hardly surprising to find those ideas gaining further support when the government is doing more outside it's original domain than ever, is more powerful than ever, and is larger than ever. At it's essence, a government is a gun to your head making you do (or not do) something because someone thinks you should. As corruption goes, you can't even be sure who holds that gun. Even if you agree with everything a particular government has ever done, why would you TRUST it? It's especially absurd to trust OUR government, because the people that make up that government change frequently, but are given the same powers. It would be easier to trust a King.

Blaming George Bush and the Republicans just highlights your ignorance. George Bush could not do what he had done if it were not for Republicans AND Democrats growing the size, power, and role of the federal government for decades. (You know, like the debacle called the PATRIOT act which was overwhelmingly voted in by BOTH sides of the aisle.) The only finger pointing you can do to the Republicans on this point is being hypocrites when they talk about small government.

detoys

@-Skyline-: I think you've chosen a pretty bad example in L4D. Mainly because of Steam.
No matter what the ESRB, or ELSPA, or the BBFC, or any ratings systems do, Steam accounts cannot be regulated by age verification. There's no reliable way of verifying someone's age through the Internet, this being the primary way that people buy this game. Add to this Amazon, Play.com, and many other services and you have a tangible age verification issue (which is exactly why there wasn't an option for age to be verified so that of-age German players could get an uncensored copy of TF2)
That and the parental thing - many parents are fine with their kids playing this. I'm pretty sure I would be, depending on the subject matter. I think that the "Mature" rating is entirely subjective, depending on the attitude of the parent. Of course, the distinction has to be made early on that this is a GAME and that you shouldn't do this in real life and yadda yadda yadda, but I think many kids, if taught correctly about it, will easily make the distinction between reality and virtuality. In which case I wouldn't care how many polygonated zombies my [potential] kids were blasting to pieces with a shotgun.

@GoonerVance: Parents do wear a lot of hats, but some of what you list they need to know for their own good as a healthy person anyway (such as cooking healthy food), or there are tools out there to make the hat easier to wear (such as an ESRB rating that says "M, 'Mature,' contains partial nudity, excessive violence, and whatever else the game contains, spelled out for you in nice, plain language."

As a teacher, I sympathize with all of the hats a parent must wear, but IT COMES WITH THE JOB, and they aren't without tools. Just because a job is tough doesn't excuse just not doing it (like the parents with their 4 yr old watching District 9).

Tanneseph

@Dao2SKP:
"It's like an R movie, they can't go in by themselves but if their parents take them it's all honkey dorey."

So why not have the same for video games? Why don't we prevent children from buying M rated video games alone?

If a kid comes in with his parent to buy GTA4, it's easy to say to the parent:
"Are you aware that this game is not recommended for children and contains gratuitous violence and numerous references to sex and alcohol"?

Azquelt

@Shin-san: It's reasonably clear but I don't much like the ESRB T, M and Ao ratings.

There's a huge gap between T (13) and M (18?). Nothing mainstream ever gets an Ao rating since game retailers refuse to sell it and console manufacturers refuse to license it.

I prefer the granularity of the PEGI system (12+, 16+, 18+) even if it's less open to interpretation (e.g. I am aware that there are some very mature 14 year olds.)

Azquelt

Since I expressed a high disapproval of universal ratings and FCC earlier, I feel obliged to congratulate FCC on this decision.

@KamuZ: Yes, there is a need to be more responsible.

It's called good parenting.

ChaosBahamut

Yeay. We're protected from our government causing us harm. Temporarily. In this one instance.

Isn't it great that we have a government that can (and frequently does) harm us? Doesn't it just make you feel great to know that your government is out there trolling for an opportunity to make your life worse?

We escaped their grasp this time. Next time? Who knows?

Wouldn't it be nice to have a smaller, less powerful government that does about 90% less than our current government does? Then we wouldn't get to celebrate our escape as often.

@KamuZ: Checking kids who want to buy M rated games IS mandatory at Gamestop. If a staff member doesn't check and a parent or guardian comes back complaining to a manager its something they can lose their job over on the spot.

Zerorush

This issue of underaged kids getting hold of games above their age rating lies mostly on the parents. The FCC and Most game retailers are doing their job by either educating, labeling, or enforcing the policies that were set up. FCC classifies the game while retailers check ids. So why do kids still get the game, because they whine and bitch until the parent gives in or just that parents dont even pay attention. When you go into a retail store, I believe the ratings system are on the wall or rack somewhere. Hell they're even at the back of the box. People just choose to ignore it and when it bites them on the ass then they complain. Most of the people who complain that their children got hold of these games are parents who dont pay attention to what their children are playing anyway. Heres an idea for you, it might sound crazy. If you dont want your children to play these games, play a more active role. The FCC and retailers have done all they can. I would've figured that if they ask for your ID to buy a VIDEO GAME would raise a white flag and make you ask why you are being carded in the first place. You get carded for liquor and cigarettes, try put the pieces together. If you're being carded then theres definitely something about the game that need to be watched.

Of course this rant might be biased because i have my own agenda. If parents actually regulate what their children are playing, their children wont be subjected to these games. On the other hand, i'll be playing more mature games online. Its a win-win situation. well, not for those children. but if you are one of those immature kids online then i dont really care about you because you just ruin the game for me. It seems harsh but I can only take so much of your crap until i get pissed off.

The ESRB really do a great job. I did an independent research project on it last semester, and while there is room for improvement (i.e. missing out on objectionable content, like drug references in Oblivion), for the most part they do their job just as well if not better than any state-run ratings system could. I think what needs to happen is more government funding for them so that they can further improve their methodology. Right now most of their conclusions aren't based upon actually playing the games - they only do that if a game is "significant" enough and they have the time and people available to do it.

Generally, I get the impression that most parents who don't pay attention to the ESRB ratings wouldn't pay attention to any ratings at all. Awareness could be raised by adopting the conventional MPAA ratings (PG/PG-13/etc.) but I doubt in the end it would result in a worthwhile improvement; at this point it's not worth getting rid of the ESRB simply for a tiny improvement.

searanox

KamuZ - "Now someone in another thread which i can't seem to find said it is the fault of the parents to buying the M rated game to 12 years old. I agree but this is done because they don't give a crap as there are no punishment for this."

Are you fucking kidding me? Parents SHOULDN'T NEED punishment to keep their kids in line, they should fucking CARE about them and the way they fucking grow up!
I agree though, that there should some(only if it leads to the child fucking up somehow) legal recourse for parents, but it shouldn't have to be the thing that gets parent TO ACTUALLY BE PARENTS.

It's not that they don't give a shit cuz there aint no laws, it's just cuz they just DON'T GIVE A SHIT!

With all the media naming all these problems about kids playing video games and fuckin' up, THERE IS ONLY 1 PROBLEM....THE PARENTS...there it is...done. Get child services involved if necessary, but as a last straw, but it should be a straw, no doubt. There are kids mature enough to play violent games, cuz GUESS WHAT!? THEY HAVE DECENT PARENTS! HAHAHA, HOW QUAINT!

Wow, that is WAY more than I intended to say when first I started the comment. hehe

doober187

So the FCC won't let me be
or let me be me, so let me see
They try to shut me down on ESRB
But it feels so empty, without me

So when are we gonna get an Eminem game?

If only the ESRB could talk to console makers and stores to allow the AO rating. It would be perfect then.

Cheater87