Nostalgia Preview: The Winds Of Staying The Same

@Archaotic:

I agree, but theres a difference between Lord of the Rings, and a season of Futurama (to use the show as an example for the second time this week), yanno? Lord of the Rings was obviously designed for a larger than life experience (hence your console), but the season of Futurama manages to hold the same length, while being just as enjoyable, just in a different way.

I still prefer my Epics and emotional triggers on a console, but theres nothing wrong with number crunchers (EO) on handhelds. Screens and screens of numbers and hundreds of thousands of customization options are a little more manageable when I'm reading them from the palm of my hand, and not my TV.

@Archaotic: Yes. I never got my hands on Legend of Mana, which is ironic, since the main theme is sung in Swedish

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: I've heard good things about that game, actually.

I don't think I made myself too clear though, so allow me to try again; it is a hard opinion to voice without sounding snooty.

Its not so much the way the game looks as much as it is the way the game carries itself, or what audience it is trying to convey its story to.

While I absolutely love (insert Pixar movie) and Iron Giant, I can only watch about one of those movies for every 4 of my There Will Be Bloods, Lord of the Rings, the Wrestler, and Burn After Reading (chose largely newer movies that a little fresher in my mind) We really don't have a lot of videogames that hit that maturity level though--most rated M games are too immature to be truly mature.

There are certain kinds of movies that totally destroy this outlook though like Miyazaki movies, for instance. Actually, Ico and SOTC, two of my favorite games ever, remind me a lot of studio Ghibli movies.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: The way I see it, RPGs should be an experience, not a time-waster. Handheld games, plain and simple, lack the "experience" factor because it's impossible to feel engrossed in a world being shown to you through a 3-inch screen.

I'm more tolerant of PSP RPGs because I can play them on my TV in full screen, but I have to spend so much time squinting and adjusting my hand position because of how awkwardly designed the DS is, it brings me out of the game REALLY fast. Especially in the DS RPGs that try to force you to use the stylus. =/

I think handhelds in general are better designed for shorter bursts of action, easily digested stuff like platformers, action games, and puzzle games. Long-form JRPGs? I overwhelmingly prefer playing them on my TV.

@LordThayer: Shin Megami: Devil Survivor wasn't bad, had some T for Teen themes, though it definitely felt a little less mature than some of the other SM games. I guess that's somewhat relative considering they pretty much all revolve around high school kids.

And I don't know if this says more about me or the game, but it's the first Shin Megami game I've actually finished.

@LordThayer:

Shin Megami is incredible. And I'd argue against the 'E for Everyone' moniker simply by difficulty. The game I mentioned, Etrian Odyssey, is not for the faint of heart or the easily frustrated.

@GnatB:

Yeah, the PSP is nice for RPG's too, but until they make some kind of crazy hybrid of DSPSP or Daystation or something, I tend to carry my DS everywhere.

See, for me, I'd rather play my RPG's on a handheld than a console. I'm not home enough these days with a job, school, people I'm forced to hang out with... having em on a portable allows me to keep playing the same game whenever and wherever I get the urge, so that it doesn't become a 'I havent played this game in four weeks and now I have no idea where I am' lost cause, as happens with a lot of jrpgs for me.

I just think sometimes people forget the charm of less graphics+more customization/options. You guys would laugh at me if I told you that I think imagination can be a wonderful tool to fill in the blanks of what you're doing, its why I grew up with a bag of dice and hexagonal grids always nearby. I dig it, though.

The problem I have with 3d model DS rpg's is they tend to look like crap compared to the PSP ones, to the point where I don't like playing them. FF III remake was a complete turnoff. But Disgaea, EO and SMT are right up my alley.

@Archaotic:

As a person with a horrible short term memory that ruins JRPG's on consoles if I dont keep playing them from start to finish, which can be difficult due to life getting in the way (my stuck save file on Lost Odyssey disc 4 from a year ago being exhibit A), I must say, portables are not a bad thing for the genre at all.

*UNNECESSARY DOUBLE POST. GODDAMN YOU FIREFOX, ITS EITHER YOU, OR KOTAKU*

@GnatB: Yeah, I need to take a second to back you up on that odd couple of RPGs on handhelds.

It is becoming really frustrating for me because, when I am at home, I'd much rather play a console, obviously. And when I am out and about, I do not have the attention span/concentration/ability to hear necessary to either play or be immersed into an RPG experience in a way that I need, personally, to really get into it. I am a lights off, no talking kind of guy (that's what I told her???) I played dozens of hours on FFT for PSP and, I must say, it was a very trying experience.

Puzzle Quest is perfect for handhelds though!

@GnatB: It is ironic. A long-form JRPG is probably the worst possible kind of game to have on a handheld, but they just keep coming like an unstoppable deluge.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: The DS is the place to go indeed. I wish the PSP was a little stronger though. The screen is SO much prettier, it almost pains me to use my DS.

Hey_Blinkon

@Ueziel: I 2nd that. They were like paintings in games.

Hey_Blinkon

@Strife Fox †: Hm, yes, good point.
Too be honest I always thought full 3D were a bit bland, especially on the lower polygon counts like they were back in the day.

I know critics loved it, but I personally always thought that fully rendered objects looked worse than, let's say, the scenery in FFIX.

That does not apply much to current gen, since games like Assassin's Creed are simply marvelous to look at.

@Ueziel: Y'know what else was really amazing? Hand-drawn backgrounds, like the ones in Legend of Mana. I would KILL for an old-school, SNES or PS1-style top-down JRPG with honest-to-god hand-drawn ARTISTIC backgrounds.

Fuck, just a PSP port (or PS1 Classic) of Legend of Mana would make my day.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce:
Sadly, I agree that portables are definitely the goto for RPG's this gen. Though last I checked the PSP had a ton of 'em too. Either way, EACH of 'em probably have more quality ones than all the home consoles combined. Which is really sorta sad, as I don't have any reason or incentive to play portable games. And RPG's, with their typical long play times, I'd argue are probably the worst possible match for portables.

I do *rarely* play them on plane trips, but it's so infrequent I completely forget what's happening in the game between trips.

I blame the japanese apparent love for public transit.

GnatB

@Strife Fox †: Ah yes. The old pre-rendered backgrounds. I do actually miss them as they could be quite beautiful. Sadly, developers are probably afraid to use them as most reviewers would likely rip a game apart for using something so "archaic" (ugh).

I'd love to see a return of pre-rendered backdrops on handheld RPGs.

@BubbleF**kingBuddy:

Not knocking the PSP rpg lineup, but the DS's battery life and indestructable form have made it a better traveling companion for my pocket than my PSP has made.

Also, har har. Its got a lot of competition against other Nintendo handhelds, eh? :P

YOU HANG IN THERE GBA

@Strife Fox †: Agreed.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: Gotta agree that the DS has been killer overall, but I can't really say it is my go-to place, since a few of the series get the E for Everyone treatment (no necessarily literally; talking about dialogue and themes and such too), which is a definite negative for me, personally.

Obviously, thats not to say all of them, though. Valkyrie Profile came out unscathed for the most part (didn't finish it, but I did notice a drop is writing quality; not necessarily DS related) and I hear the Shin Megami game stood strong as well.

I'm very much looking forward to this game. Most of the group behind the game is fantastic.

It came out in November of last year in Japan though so it's not "a year or so" but rather, not quite a year. Too long either way.

The 3D graphics on the DS are pretty nostalgic, but I wish (especially for Final Fantasy 3 and 4) they had rendered the backgrounds like Final Fantasy VII, VIII and IX with those hand drawn backgrounds instead of all 3D as the ugly 3D bacdrops do take away from the atmosphere a bit, for me personally.

The steampunk setting is hardly new for the Final Fantasy series, considering that Final Fantasy VI (III for SNES) was basically set in a steampunk world.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: I don't know about RPGs (the PSP's RPG lineup is pretty underrated), but it's definetely better than all of Nintendo's other handhelds.

Been looking forward to this game for months.

Those my friend, are some really cracked out mushroom monsters. Just look at their faces...creepy. O_o;

The DS has been *the* system to go to for sidescrollers and rpg's this gen. Even over the consoles. Which as much as some people might bitch and moan 'but no graphix!', I don't care. The little guy has been my best friend for travel, and the games it has have easily eaten up 30+ hours. Sometimes in the hundreds. I'm looking at you, Etrian Odyssey.

Very much looking forward to another.

Also: The tree person looks cool, but I think that Mushroom is going to molest me

Am about to finish Luminous Arc 2 (seriously, almost every character there, like, made one major booboo; funny thing is all of them forgive and forget, no matter how grave the mistake was) and have FF III to wade through, so this game'll probably be next.

paulrenzo

@Archaotic: There is so much truth in that comment it brings tears to my eyes.

Then again I'm an jRPG fan that owns a PS3... you can do the math.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: I don't know...a LOT of RPGs on the DS are either FF/Dragon Quest clones or they're isometric strategy games. Sure, there's the occasional TWEWY, but developers really aren't pushing the gameplay limits on DS either.

@Archaotic:

I just call Persona JRPG-lite because its hard to catagorize. I've played the first one. In fact, I've got an english translation of the Super Nintendo's and Playstations right here on this computer. Its got its 'hardcore' element, and the ability to drop hundreds of hours into it is certainly hardcore, but as far as hand-held storytelling or number crunching that takes place ala many JRPG's, its unique in that it doesn't do much of either.

The thing about the 'similar gameplay' remark is that one of the DS'es strong points is that dev's have been willing to take risks with different/new/difficult gameplay. So while the graphics have been less, the gameplay hasn't exactly been equal.

But we agree on one thing. The DS'es 3D capabilities are awful. I can't name drop a single 3d modeled game that I like on it that isn't made by Nintendo.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: The PSP has one workaround that makes it easier for me to say it works as a storytelling device: component cables. Plug those babies in and it's like playing a PS2.

I'm just fine with playing KH: Birth By Sleep on my TV. Persona will be equally entertaining (and speaking of which, Persona 1 is about as far from "JRPG lite" as possible; that game is HARDCORE) when it comes out later this month.

And believe me, sir, I love Phoenix Wright games as much as the next guy, but the thing is that the Ace Attorney franchise actually has good visuals. Well-drawn, personality-filled sprites will ALWAYS trump the hideous, chunky, blocky 3D models that JRPG developers seem to think work just fine on the DS. Visuals may not be everything, but if I have a choice between two games with similar gameplay, but one has shit visuals while another one has good ones, I'm ALWAYS going to pick the one with better visuals.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce:

Odyssey *cough*

@Archaotic:

See, I like both. Lost Odyseey is obviously my favourite JRPG of years and years, and its very story driven. But when it comes to crunching numbers, I also like to do that. I don't necessarily like mindless level grinding for the sake of level grinding, but its fun to be given a hundred and one options to customize your characters to find a style that suits you best. Hence, the SRPG's I like to play.

Hey, don't knock Monster Hunter. *heart*.

Handhelds are fine for story, but I think its the screen size that limits what kind of story you can tell. Because your eyes can see around your DS, it kind of breaks the illusion of whats going on. Have you played the Mario RPG games? They're pretty funny. As well as the Phoenix Wrights'. But obviously, nothing has made me bawl like a little girl or make my eyes go wide in awe like something on the consoles.

But thats exactly why I think its a waste of time making a serious graphic JRPG epic on the PSP. I'll take a really pretty number cruncher or a JRPG-lite like Persona, but cmon, like it or not, you're going to run into the same limitations no matter what handheld you go to.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: I think that's the trick for me. I don't like those "number cruncher" JRPGs. Story is key to me. I don't like grinding or levelling, I play RPGs for the story. And honestly, handhelds just aren't the best storytelling devices.

I mean, I think of it this way. The PSP is alright because it can handle decent character models and voice acting, but its library of truly good RPGs is rather limited. Square's really the only JRPG developer putting forth a truly driven effort on the system, with Namco Bandai focusing on spinoffs, Capcom ignoring it ENTIRELY aside from Monster Hunter, and Atlus and NIS largely focusing on ports. It has more potential as a storytelling device, but that potential is largely being ignored outside of Square.

On the other hand, the DS gets a lot more "unique" titles, though as time has gone on we've gotten a lot less TWEWYs and a lot more "we took an old PS2 franchise, chopped out all of what made it unique, and plopped it onto the DS because DS games sell" experiments. Valkyrie Profile and Suikoden being the most notable victims. We also see a lot of remakes of SNES games being done with haphazardly handled 3D visuals when well-animated upgraded sprites could easily have sufficed.

Neither system really has gotten it truly right, with the DS' technical limitations and the PSP's lack of truly deep support from publishers (seriously, the DS has THREE mainline Tales games and Namco can't be arsed to give the PSP ONE?) holding them back, the handhelds will always simply be a stopgap, a time-killer until the JRPG developers get their asses in gear for the consoles.

Sounds fun. Too bad the game looks horrible T_T

Yay 3D DS graphics.

TheVegetarianBurgerKing

@cupajoe38: Too bad it isn't in the Final Fantasy series

There's a certain magic behind JRPG's. The stagnant gameplay is an instant turn off, yet they have an addictive quality that can only be bested by Peggle and Tetris. Playing this will likely be like chewing razor blades, but for some reason I can't wait..

Turn based combat, random encounters and grueling battles make me super excited. I hope it's all of those things.

@Ueziel: star ocean 1 psp remake? tales of eternia for psp didn't look to shabby either. And the new lunar remake has sick pre-rendered backdrops. So get a psp if ya haven't already xD

chickdigger802

@TheVegetarianBurgerKing: 3DS graphics permaybe?

Mathias is approved!

I'M READY FOR MOAR STEAMPUNK !!!

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce:

Dragon Quest Joker was pretty decent. Overworld with monsters moving around. Felt very much like a Blue Dragon portable if the real game itself wasn't isometric strategy.

Monster Rancher DS has some great monster animation up close. It's just too bad there isn't an English port for whatever reason (the Japanese one is very playable once you know the basic buttons).

Ninja Gaiden DS was impressive just for the FPS it could handle. I enjoyed that a lot more than I thought I would.

But you're right though. No developer really pushes to try to make as much as they can with the hardware unless it's an in-house Nintendo game...

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce:

Just to ad to 'bawl like a little girl' thing, I cried at the end of Professor Layton and the Diabolical Box. Decent voice acting + touching ending = Cry-baby me.

@Ueziel:

Personally I think when they were first used, it was simply because of the limitations of the hardware. Similarly, it's completely viable for use for the DS since it's hardware is limited and it would make sense to use pre-rendered backgrounds instead of full 3D for other than the characters themselves.

@Strife Fox †: Agreed as well, though wasn't there at least one JRPG that did that? Can't really remember the specifics, but something on the lines of FFVII or FFIX's style (still backdrops, large 3D model sprites of the characters) should be in the DS' capabilities.

I always assumed the DS as a sort of handheld Playstation.

For whatever reason I've really taken a liking to the style of this game. Yes, yes, it's another turn-based jrpg, but pending some good reviews, it just may end up on my shelf.

@(Zombie) Komrade Kayce: I've been playing my DS more than any of my consoles, including my beloved ps2, for a couple of years now. I've been dividing my time lately between Avalon Code, SRW Endless Frontier, puzzle bobble, flower sun rain, layton, stafy, pokemon, and a kanji-learning program. And scribblenauts is coming out soon.

I sank hours and hours into Etrian Odyssey and could still hardly get anywhere. I heard you need to use status effects.

Charonchan