So says The Movie Show’s Margaret Pomeranz in this interview with Byteside concerning the issue of video game classification in Australia.
While Pomeranz admits she isn’t a gamer – but she will “fight for your right to play them!” – it’s clear her experience in the film industry and all of its classification issues over the years have provided her with plenty of insight into the topic.
She tells Byteside’s Ben Mansill:
“I think it’s dangerous… it’s the start of danger when you have a government effectively saying, this is what we will allow you to see, and this is what we will not allow you to see. Fortunately they have very little power these days because we can see anything we want… as long as we’re prepared to break the law. And what you’re doing is turning people into criminals.”
Byteside held a lively debate on video game classification on Tuesday night. The full discussion will be up on the site soon. Check it out.
Dunnowhathuh
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 1:19 AMShe’s very well informed and what she says is so true. Too bad what she said isn’t going to get through the heads of the OFLC and a certain senator who I’d like to call a mother!@#$%^& overly conservative !@#$wit.
mambodog
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 2:00 AMGo Margaret! Woooo!
Jay
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 4:33 AMThe only problem is, dev’s will think they can make these really violent games with real violent storylines or scenes. Some may include stuff like rape & extreme measures thinking they will get an R18 cause of new laws.
The Aust Gov. be bringing it in sooner than we think. I mean i read about R18 in my paper last week cause of Left 4 Dead 2 and how retailers are upset etc… It’s suddenly becoming an issue within the public as of late. Altho yes we need Atkinson to say YES which is highly unlikely or for him to be replaced. I mean politcians scrtach each others backs and all he needs is for one other general to say, hey you vote yes for me and then in future i’ll keep supporting you. I dunno…
However the Aust Gov. need to bring in measures for R18. I know there aren’t a lot of horrific games that do get passed in America etc… but there are a lot of horrific games out there that shouldn’t even be played by someone over the age of 18. And imports that have a R18 classification and all that need to have a good system otherwise the R18 could just become an issue of itself. I know it takes a freak to want to play a game that involved extreme shit like rape & effed up crap like that – and im HIGHLY unlikely it would receive an R18 (not only that Aussie isnt the leading gaming market so not all devs are gonna cheer and can now release/dev all these games coz Aus will allow them) but its just precaution so that there aren’t TOO violent games.
I mean you can still have fun playing GTA without the need for something like Hot Coffee Mod etc… and those sorts of things.
Malorion
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 9:06 AMSorry Jay but I think that, in part, you’re making the same incorrect assumption that Mr Atkinson has. I don’t think there’s a single developer, either here or overseas, that will suddenly produce games that they wouldn’t otherwise if we get an R18+ rating. As others have pointed out before, our market just isn’t big enough to warrant it.
Other than that, you’re right, our classification system does need improving and the single best improvement it can get is the addition of an R18+ rating so that games can be put under the classification that they belong to rather than shoe-horned into something else because our system isn’t mature enough to handle them.
Ben!!
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 12:42 PM“..there are a lot of horrific games out there that shouldn’t even be played by someone over the age of 18″
So you have a personal view that others shouldn’t play games that you consider too violent?
You’re just as bad as our government.
Cat Tactics
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 5:24 PMJay,
yeh ummmmm…..No. your post is full of so much fail and you are rather uninformed on this issue.
Thomas Baskerville
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 6:44 AMWhat she said
Malorion
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 7:50 AMI was going to refute some peoples’ comments that importing RC games is not illegal, thinking that they were getting confused with grey importing but it appears that I’m the one that is wrong.
Apparently, except in WA and NT and for a certain subset of RC software (child porn, etc), it is intentional that it *not* be illegal to acquire or possess material with an RC classification as the classification system only affects the dissemination of material. In short, it can’t be sold or distributed here but there’s nothing wrong with you buying a copy from overseas and having it here.
For L4D2 this means that it can’t be sold via Steam to Australians, however if it’s available on disc overseas, you could buy it and still register it via Steam, assuming Valve allows it. However, I’m not certain that we’d want them to. This is a high profile game and if it brought attentionto the fact that we can still buy and play RC games due to what might be seen as a loophole (although, as I said, it was a deliberate decision) then Mr Atkinson, Mr Conroy etc might then make attempts to correct the situation. And then we could really start screaming about our rights but we all know how far that’s gotten us so far.
Jens
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 8:29 AMImporting RC games into Australia *is* illegal. I contacted the OFLC about it and this is the answer I got:
“I refer to your email inquiry 7 May 2009 regarding the importation of RC (refused classification) computer games. Any computer game which has been refused classification in Australia would be considered ‘objectionable goods’ ie. a prohibited import, and this applies to importation by either an individual or organisation. The intended use of the goods is not specified in the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956 as being relevant or taken into consideration except, for example, in cases where an application is made for permission to import the goods, or where such goods have been illegally imported and the Australian Customs and Border Protection Service seek to prosecute the importer (where penalties may vary depending on the quantity of goods being considered ‘commercial’). Any person or organisation that distributes RC computer games within Australia is subject to relevant State and Territory classification enforcement legislation.”
Malorion
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 10:03 AMInteresting reply. They’re implying that it’s illegal but if you read between the lines, and with the benefit of other knowledge, that quote actually supports my point.
An RC game may well be classified as “objectionable” but that’s *not* the same as illegal.
That statement says that the intended use of the goods is not relevant or taken into consideration except, (amongst others) where such goods have been illegally imported *and* Customs seek to prosecute the importer “where penalties may vary depending on the quantity of goods being considered ‘commercial’”.
Firstly, I don’t believe that buying an RC game and having it shipped here constitutes an illegal import. Again, objectionable is not the same as illegal, at least as far as I know but I’m not a lawyer. Most of these games are not banned, simply refused classification for the purposes of dissemination. There is a major difference.
Secondly, if Customs do decide to attempt to charge you, then by that statement the intended purpose of the import does become relevant. And in any case, any penalty takes into account how much of the goods are considered ‘commercial’. Customs is going to have a really hard time proving that the single game you purchased and want to install on your one computer/console is for commercial &/or dissemination purposes.
Thirdly, “Any person or organisation that distributes RC computer games within Australia is subject to relevant State and Territory classification enforcement legislation.” Guess what? In ’91 the Australian Law Reform Commission recommended that it should not “be an offence to have possession of RC films or RC publications, regardless of their intended use, merely because they are classified RC.” In 95/96 the Commonwealth, State and Territory Governments made the decision to accept the ALRC’s recommendations. Apparently WA and certain areas of NT don’t follow this, I’m not sure of the details of why or how that works.
If it were me (although there’s no RC games I’m interested in), I’d go right ahead and import what you want (after looking into the exact reasons for the RC and making sure it’s not something that really is illegal like child porn) and if it gets stopped by Customs, write to them immediately to advise that you are contacting a lawyer and why your are doing so. I bet they give you your game (but be prepared to talk to a lawyer just in case – I still think you’d win even if it came to that).
Actually, given that most of us can’t afford to pay a lawyer to look into this for us, I think one of the gaming bodies here should do so. Or can we set up a fund for people to donate to? Or is there a lawyer somewhere who would be willing to donate the time to do the research?
But even if we can import RC games, this doesn’t solve the problem of games getting MA15+ because we don’t have R18+. We still need an R18+ rating.
Ayrton Coll
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 4:14 PMAre you merely referencing the statement or the actual legislation, becuase from what I remember reading, RC material is explicitly listed as a prohibited item and is illegal to import. As for possession state and territories have differing laws. I have heard that it is legal in NSW but from what I’ve read of the ACT laws it is illegal here. You should read the classification enforcement Act relevant to your state top clarify this if you want to make a legal defense of owning any RC material (here’s the NSW one):
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_act/cfacgea1995596/index.html#s46
Although I’m not sure weather you could be charged with importing prohibited items once the item already got through customs and you were then found in possession of it. As far as steam goes, downloads do not count as imports and steam is not based in Australia and hence if they are found to be selling prohibited content they can only be added to a list to be filtered out by the voluntary (for you to use) filters that ISPs provide. Although valve will probably not risk selling it anyway. (check the broadcasting services Act for this one).
Malorion
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 9:17 AMOne last comment:
I agree with Ayrton.. The protest is a good idea, but demonstrating the ultra-violent games that we’d be able to buy locally if we had R18+ isn’t going to win us any fans.
How about instead promoting the fact that a number of games, that are perfectly acceptable to adults, are being crammed into a category that allows 15 year olds to play the same games.
Have a mass session of GTA with banners saying something like “Do you want your 15 year old playing this? If we had an R18+ rating, they wouldn’t be allowed to!” It’s not illegal in any way (playing L4D2 would probably require having cracked/pirate copies in order to play them) and highlights the real problem for the public rather than showing them a bunch of gamers who just want to play violent or potentially objectionable games.
Deadlydorito
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 11:29 AMHey if i paint a left4dead2 scene where i hack at a zombie babies face really really hard and split its skull into two, thats interactive right? Would that be illegal?
Assuming videogames are art forms its rather strange that it is one of the few art mediums that are actually censored by the government…
Chris
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 1:14 PMhmm, perhaps at the “protest” you could have L4D and L4D2 game running side by side, just one is in the R18+ side of things where you check for ID, and the other is in a 15+ side. Then raise awareness and invite parents teachers and co-workers to view what occurs on each side. What they’ll notice is that the games are of relatively similar levels of violence. Put up a notice for clean play too, so that viewers can actually see LANs running at their friendly community best. Send a letter to Margaret and invite her along, then get some media attention and Bobs your uncle.
Keep one of the news stations on speed dial, and if police do rock up let them know, they’ll scramble someone there asap. it would be amusing to see footage of police breaking up a friendly well organised and community supported LAN.
Michael Ormando
Friday, October 2, 2009 at 2:12 PMShes awesome. shes one of the few movie critics who reviews a movie based on what it is, not what she thinks it should be.
good on her.
Trent Strickland
Saturday, October 3, 2009 at 2:52 AMMargaret is awesome. Her views on cersorship are logical. Could she please come and hang out in South Australia and have a chat to “you-know-who”.
Travis
Saturday, October 3, 2009 at 11:55 PMMargaret Pomeranz, I love you. Always have. Always will.
Fracture
Tuesday, October 6, 2009 at 7:08 AMPomeranz has dedicated poster wallspace in my bedroom now.