@Mayu-mayu:

Worth it or not, it will be the benchmark by which other games will be judged in the UK and possibly around the world.

Last_Raven

I think the reason for the upheaval by the BBFC is not so much the level of violence in the game, but more the interactivity given by the wii control scheme. There is an inherent passivity in viewing movies. Video games increase the active role of the player by having him or her control the character. But these actions are often disjointed from reality. You don't shoot a gun, you simply push a button to shoot a gun. With Manhunt 2 for the Wii, however, you have more direct replication of the actions.

Now whether this more direct replication of actions and heightened level of active involvement will lead to an increased effect of violent media on aggression is not exactly confirmed by scientific research. There is some evidence that such a relationship may exist, but it is sparse and not directly related to the current issue. Nevertheless, there is at least a theoretical reason to believe that more interactive games like manhunt 2 will result in increased aggressive behavior.

And just quickly - another gripe of mine with the Manhunt 2 games is that they just lack any sense of virtue. Most violent games have the character acting out of a desire to help others (e.g. save the world). Even GTA games have some semblance of a prosocial storyline accompanying the violence. Additionally, the storyline of manhunt 2 is suggestive that the mentally ill are highly aggressive individuals. This is simply not true.

graddy

This is not about the game anymore. It's about the system. Sadly Manhunt II is a bad posterboy, but it's bigger than it. That's something that we have to realize.

Jet Set

This game is not that good, or that "bad" for it to be banned, it is such a shame that Europe being so far ahead in matters of sex and drugs and most liberties still chooses to act like an overly biased moralistic nanny when it comes to things like this.

Sort of funny too that the standard they use is not a consistent one, either.

seiryuu

I thought people already forgot about this game. It just doesn't worth all the ruckus.

Mayu-mayu

Omg, Eastern Promises... the fighting scene in the baths was totally brutal. If they pass that with the (admittedly weak) justification they gave, then what on earth is the problem when it comes to games?

Clushje

Ehm, when you're killing someone in Manhunt2 do you just press the button and the killing animation starts after?

If yes it seems the argument that "movie-goers were free to look away from the screen" is not a good one then, since you could look away from the screen while your character is killing bad guys... I didn't play this game though, so maybe I'm wrong.

If I am wrong, please tell me.

tHieu!

@Fused:

Well I at least saw the videos of the kill scenes and it doesn't seem that bad at all. Double standards indeed. Why does a movie like 'Hannibal' get released where cops are gutted, get their faces (quite literally) ripped off, and hung from the ceiling by a psychopath be OK for consumers, but not Manhunt 2 which is relatively tame by comparison.

Like kids aren't going to see 'Hannibal'? Oh right their parents are "too good" to let that happen. But they'll let them buy games because they're "kid stuff". Adults can play video games too and until that stigma is gone, there will be a double standard.

Last_Raven

i just finished watching Shoot'em Up...

it was very fun movie but damm there are dead bodies every other minute...

there are FAAAAR more violent mediums that gets out than this game....

acting out violence through Wiimote is probably their only defense....but really is it any different than any other waggle games for Wii?

hell...there were LOTS of injuries from playing Wii Sport....tons blood, broken legs, lots of damaged furnitures and appliances...

you'll get far fewer casualties from Manhunt 2 than Wii Sport....

icepick314

The only people playing video games are kids and teenagers, right? Hell, it's not like adults touch these things, right? Right guys?

Squeegoth

Yay for double standards for Film and Games.

I din't play Manhunt so I can't attest to the level of violence, but this seems like typical behavior for these government entities. It's sad really.

Fused

I have to agree that Manhunt 2, at least at this point, is not the worst of the bunch - especially the bunch that didn't struggle to get a release in the UK.

One thing is for sure though, they won't need to do that much advertising for this title :P

Achaemenid

Manhunt 2 isn't half as violent as some of the more explicit games I've seen the BBFC give a green light for in the past. I really hope Rockstar use the Eastern Promices classification as an example of the BBFC's hypocrisy in this sorry case of censorship vs. choice.

KyleNichol

It's DPB! Not DBP!

;_;

Yeah, it's pretty clear that the decision in this case could have a big effect on other games like Manhunt that are released in the future. Law is based on precedent after all. At least I think it is...

DPB

@tHieu!: Nah you're not far off to be honest, certainly not on the PS2. You sneak up behind someone, hold down a button, the longer you hold it the more violent the kill will be, but the actual kill is a cutscene of sorts, where you don't interact. It's bloody awful mind, if it wasn't for the fact it's now become a political issue of sorts I wouldn't give this game the time of day.

TearsandScreams

why all this hub bub about a shit title? is it any shock that rockstar went for gore and retarded violence rather than game content?
The UK should view this as a favor.

Gadgetron

The BBFC needs to be disbanded, or at the very least, get someone in there who has some damn common sense. Honestly, they could've put an M rating on it, or the UK equivalent, and this could've been all said and done given the bad reviews, but nooo, they still have to make a big fuss about it.

And honestly, I do think its hypocritical of them to release all those violent movies, but not this.

Ashkihyena

I've heard the argument about film violence and game violence so many times, and I don't see, as many have pointed out, why films are always dragged up, with Hostel and Saw always in the limelight. I find it amazing how Resident Evil 4, a game where you can get your head chopped off by a chainsaw weilding manic with scarily realistic graphics, is rated 15. I for one am not complaining about this, for I've been playing 15 rated gmaes since the age of about 7 [I got Turok 2 on the N64 then, the cerebral bore was a delight to watch in action]. I personally believe that these ratings are ridiculous, and should be much more leniant for younger gamers. But if the BBFC are going to rate games, at least gain some credibilty among gamers by keeping the same standard from one game to the next. Maybe they should put a warning on the box. 'Don't buy Manhunt 2: get Okami instead...'

Krondonian

I hate to point out the obvious, but you can't have a double-standard when you're discussing two entirely different mediums.

In films, the audience is a passive observer, free to disapprove or be disgusted and offended by something on the screen. In games (specifically Manhunt) not only can you NOT look away during the violence (as you may well lose the game as a result), but you are rewarded for the act and ENCOURAGED to make the killings as brutal as possible. I think this is where the BBFC is coming from, and whilst we can deny the effects this has on our minds, there's a very clear cut difference, and we have to at least attempt to understand that.

There's a reason film can cover subjects like rape and games can't and/or shouldn't.

Maybe at some point in the future, our medium will have matured to the point where we're capable of experiencing more of these hot-button topics in an artistic and meaningful way. But Manhunt 2 is not the game to do it, nor should we position it as such.

V1L3

It's not the violence per se, as Graddy has explained, it's about the level of interactivity and the complete lack of redeeming features.
That the BBFC will pass movies like Eastern Promise shows that they are open to accepting violence, even ultraviolence has a part in art and entertainment.
Mahunt seems to glorify violence for nothing pore than sadistic pleasure n the part of the person playing the game, and it's this that has caused it to be refused a certificate.
Now you may not agree with that assessment, but that is basically what they are saying, so it's futile to point out that other violent games and movies are granted certificates, unless you can show one which broadly similar to Manhunt.

I still think the BBFC got it right.

Cruithne

@Chris: That is such bull. Not everyone is a pirate. I personally want to see it released and will buy it on principle, provided it is uncut. I loved the first game and I heard reasonable things about the second. The BBFC need to be brought down a peg or two. I find their attitude incredibly insulting to mature, right-minded adults. But unfortunately the government in the UK don't give a shit about freedom of their residents any more, only taxing us until we are so exhausted that we don't have the energy to revolt against their controlling, nannying ways. The BBFC are just part of the problem and are helping nobody. All this episode has done is to create ill feeling towards them. Quite right too, the totalitarian bastards.

Mr Bentley

I'm a fan of the first game, but this game totally sucked, so disappointed. They really shouldn't keep wasting time trying to get it released in the UK. Anyone who wanted it has either pirated it or forgotten about it.

Chris

An interesting question is whether the interactivity provided by the Wii Remote makes the game more immersive, and hence more violent, than a film which is not composed of visible polygons and blurry textures!

Sasuntsi Davit

@Fused: I din't play Manhunt so I can't attest to the level of violence, but this seems like typical behavior for these government entities.

It's funny seeing all these people saying "this rating system is bullshit" and then qualifying that by saying "of course, I haven't played the game."

If you haven't played the game, then who are you to comment? You're no better than people like Jack Thompson arguing on the other side. He doesn't know how violent games like Manhunt 2 are, and neither do you.

You can take the argument that no amount of violence in media should ever be regulated in any way - that's not a position I'd agree with, but at least it's honest, and consistent - but you can't say this particular game doesn't meet the threshold for regulation if you haven't played it. That's *not* honest.

badasscat

At this point, BBFC is not trying to keep the game banned because of the violence in it, they are trying to keep it banned so they look like they will never back down and that in the end, England prevails!

ceilingfanboy

Kinda makes you want to set up shop in front of Parliament with a whole case of the US version.

explodingman

As far as realistic depicitions of violence goes, the BBFC has seen fit to release COD4 uncut - I can't understand their stance over Manhunt 2 other than the fact that A. It's on the Wii and B. They've classfied it and they're not going to back down. Ultimately, it should have had an 18 rating anyway and it SHOULD NOT have been available to children.

I'm starting to get real sick of censorship (WTF is up with the 'ash' in No More Heroes?? *sigh*)

Aegis

@ceilingfanboy: RUUUUUE BRITANNIA, BRITTANIA RULES THE WAVES etc etc

Youlikeyams

So guys, I'm not gonna be able to play this. I'll just go watch me some guts getting spilled inhumanely in Saw 3.

Or Hostel. Hey, that's just mindless macabre violence too, isn't it?
But it ain't a game and the Daily Mail didn't complain, so it's fine!

Youlikeyams

As a British 'subject' I'm happy to say this. This carry-on is all very British and extremely petty, and it's just about having had their nose bloodied by Rockstar and nothing more, at this point.

system11

manhunt 2 still?? my god i think this game qualifies for the most talked about game in the year..its like a few weeks go by without anything and then bam!!! "Man hunt 2 still struggling over spilled milk" its like an itch that wont go away.

murder

I'm sick of hearing about Manhunt. The game is out and sucked, the end. Besides, the first one was way more brutal anyway. And nobody cared. Let it go!

Graham

@explodingman: A part of me was hoping you were going to say a case of Guy Fawkes masks.

ceilingfanboy