@AGiES:

Oh so they are relying on the synergy effect the layoffs will create, when everybody knows that they are just short term? :/

If it's true, then I would like to kick some managers in their balls, for still using such old practices!

Garo

Execute Order 66

ErickTheRed

@setuzoku: That's VGChartz so you have to take that with a grain of salt. Overall though the 360 and the Wii have kicked the PS3's ass so that's what most people mean. Aren't they also loosing money on each one still I'm not sure.

NotAZombie

60 week total sales from launch
(million)
PS2 = 9
PS3 = 8.7
360 = 8.2
PSP = 10.5
DS = 14.3
Wii = 19.4

(Source VZchartz)

Sony's poor sales ?
Give me your rational explanation.

setuzoku

Probably some of the guys from the PS2 department. Since the PS3 department is sick of getting beat by a last gen system. lol. That really sucks for those people if it is true.

ballaboy311

@Soldier_CLE: Too bad Sony's more profitable under Stringer than they were before him. He's turned the company around. Search around on Google News if you don't believe it.

SCE is the problem child of the company right now. It needs to be spanked.

badasscat

@Garo: Layoffs increase their profit margin. You don't make money selling hardware at a loss. A reduction in employee numbers is about all they can do to mitigate these losses as most Sony's fate is in the hands of its licensees.

AGiES

The only logical layoff?

HOWARD STRINGER!!! (Nope, still not pleased with his handling of the Sony Empire. They probably should do away with him Darth Vader-Strangle style, along with the infamous movie quote "You have failed me for the last time!")

That layoff (and the cancellation of his golden parachute should alone save many jobs!

Soldier_CLE

Yes. After they have increased sales of the PS3 and PSP, after they have "won" the format war and after their stock increase following the Warner announcement, layoffs are quite logical :/

Garo

Oh my.

Witzbold

Yay for Monday.

Nascar

It's probably a good idea to take this with a whole handful of salt, but it seems kinda interesting in conjunction with DJ Kazzy Hirai's promise to make the PS3 profitable by the end of FY 2008.

doomstalk

Well that would make sense do to the poor sales. Sony did however have a great holiday season including all three platforms.

NotAZombie

I didn't think it was possible to take 2chan seriously.

ncsbert

@NotAZombie:
That's true as to PS3.

@Guizzy:
Yeah, agree. What I want to say is Sony's SALES(accounting term) isn't poor.　
Not to mention, SCE is in the red, as MS is.

At the very start, Ashcraft,you are wrong.
2 channel is one of the most unreliable source
on the earth. Say joke as a joke.

setuzoku

I wouldn't be surprised if the layoffs has less to do with the success or lack of for the PS3 and more of the downturn the global economy is taking from the subprime writeoffs a lot of investment companies are having to take. Like any huge multinational corporations, Sony will surely have had invested a certain amount of capital on investment funds. These are the same funds from investment banks like JP Morgan, CitiCorp, Morgan Stanley, etc... which have been taking billions in losses to subprime writeoffs.

If Sony is laying people off it's to cut excess payroll. This probably would mean there's going to be a lot of managers, directors and other middle management people who probably have nothing to do other manage other managers and directors.

Tull

Sony's biggest problem is that they are losing so much money on the consoles being sold (numerous price cuts) that this would be a surprise. But their real death sentence is the fact that their game sales are not very high for the PS3.

I still think it's bogus, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if it were founded to be true.

Hunter8man

Honestly, I wouldn't count this out. I should know, I was laid off last Nov. due to downsizing.

gibfather

@setuzoku: Thing is, consoles sales are not a linear buisness. They are comparative when it comes to securing games from third-parties.

It doesn't matter how much time the PS3 has been out compared to the 360 to third-parties; if there are twice the amount of people with 360s than there are with PS3s, then guess who's going to get the games?

Slower sales of the 360 at the same time in its life could be attributed to many things: not as many customers not being ready to switch, less HDTVs out there...

So all in all, comparing sales at a specific point in its lifespan is meaningless; it doesn't serve to compare anything. The only way sales can be compared is in the present: how much it's selling right now.

Guizzy

Ashcraft, could you define "poor sales?" I'm trying real hard, but 3.9 mil units sold refuses to = poor.

McBonk

Restructuring throughout Sony was promised to be done over the course of two calender years (2006-2008), so this might ring true. PS3 manufacturing costs are down a bit (65nm Cell and absence of EE), and with the sale spike, it seems highly unlikely that "poor" sales are the cause.

SG79

See, I knew Kaz would find a way to make a profit ;)

-EDGE-

Japanese people don't lay off their own people unless the company folds. Shrug, I thought that was common knowledge.

rezak

I have friends who work right next door to to me at SCE Playstation here in Foster City, and they told me there are rumors going around about layoffs too because of poor PS3 sales.

Even though they did better when prices were lowered and because of the holiday season, it doesn't make up for an entire year's poor sales.

telekinesis

@ncsbert: Are you sure? I heard this rumor that MGS4 was coming to the 360 ...

Sorry, sorry ... I couldn't resist. However, layoffs probably have to do with the whole financial situation of Sony -- part of which is attributable to the PS3 not yet being profitable and their top tier games not selling at the projected rate. So, I expect there are layoffs and that PS3 impacts that decision, however it wouldn't be the only reason.

Layoffs are quite a bit more newsworthy in Japan. In the US, we're a lot more used to switching around jobs ... that's still a relatively new thing there.

jayntampa

@doomstalk: Maybe, but I don't think that has much to do with it. I didn't think any of the oft-quoted costs of how much a PS3 costs to make listed anything about personnel costs. That would just leave the cost of the components of the box itself, and firing Joey down in the mailroom doesn't suddenly make the Cell processor cheaper.

Not that overhead is free! But if you look at Sony's balance sheet, costs of goods sold is WAYYYY higher then how much they are paying their employees.
[finance.yahoo.com]
(54B in COGS, 15B in salary).

I also haven't seen a recent list of the prices of the parts in a PS3, so I'm not going to trot out the $800 per PS3 figure again :-P. If this is true, perhaps Sony just thinks they need to trim personnel costs across the board. I just doubt this only has to do with the PS3.

NateN

Reality is that if I want to play MGS4 or FFXIII, I need to own one of Sony's expensive little game boxes.

So, eventually, there probably will be a PS3 sitting under my TV.

ncsbert

@NateN:

Its actually even less, I did my thesis on the very subject of lifetime employment here in japan just a few months ago. It does only apply to large corporations, but the figure is actually lower than 10%.

However, people do have a tendacy to stay with the same company for long periods of time, which makes it seem like lifetime employment(ie. your second statement is correct.)

Basically people still have a preconcieved notion that lifetime employment is everywhere here, but with the long term recession, has come lots of employment restructuring.

RuneX

@setuzoku: There is no rational explanation for this story; it's just fanboy balking at the fact that the XboX ultimate got scrapped post-haste after the Warner announcement.

pixelsword

@rezak: Wellllll, kinda. Lifetime employment (shushin koyo) really only applies to large corporations, according to the US govt it applies to roughly 15% of the Japanese workforce.

Also, from what I've read lifetime employment is no longer really guaranteed in Japan. What large companies tend to do right now is push older employees into early retirement, which isn't a layoff, but it's still a forced reduction in staff. Po-TAY-to po-TAH-to IMHO :-P.

NateN

@rezak: It hasn't been that way for years, layoffs do happen in Japan.

Sixtail

Hey, the Internet is serious business.

Mongoosekun

@pixelsword: I honestly pray you're not stupid enough to believe that.

Moonshadow101

@RuneX:
You learn something new everyday... thanks for the education guys!

rezak

"However, last year's the price cut only a short-lived PS3 sales spike."

Looks like that sentence needs some internal restructuring. =P

Fenris Wolf

People generally tend to stay with the same company in Japan, because there's not much merit to switching jobs like there is in the US. Animosity towards outsiders is in effect here, and unless you have some truly exceptional skills, getting that new job will most likely mean you're going to have to settle for a little less than what you're getting now. Hell, you'll even get branded as a "chuuto sha-in" (a 'half-way employee') to keep you separated from the 'sei sha-in' (a 'true employee,' typically those that got hired right out of college).

As for the thread in question: yes, I'd take it with a huge grain of salt. This is just one of the huge pieces of flamebait rolling around on 2ch, some more credible than others. There ARE many boards on 2ch though, where insiders bitch and whine about some stuff that should be kept an internal secret. The thread had several (supposed) SCE employees talking about an email they received regarding a meeting to possibly revise their contracts at the beginning of the year, which came just before they left for new year's shutdown.

The board this thread is contained in is completely anonymous, with no inclusion of poster IDs (odd random ID tags are attached to each user on some boards, which are re-generated everyday at 0:00AM), so there's always that possibility that the trolls are doing both the thread-flaming and the 'normal' posting, including initial-ed references to (supposed) actual employees. The email may also turn out to be true, but really nothing of any serious magnitude. In either case, it's an interesting read as long as you don't take this stuff too seriously.

muu

I'm confused. I've been hanging out on N4G instead of Kotaku, and the vibe from all the posts is that PS3 is on an upswing. What's with all the doom-and-gloom over here?

krokus

"but a 2Channel thread..."

... aaand this article loses most of it's credibility.

Blah8

@Soldier_CLE: id give you a dollar to show stringer the door, or at least get him a muzzle.

this sucks if its true, and sadder that some folks enjoy reading things like this. hopefully, not as many said folk are on this site.

TheIrishNinja (XBL = IrishNinja2099, PSN = TheIrishNinja

Now i just need to learn Japanese...

Pygmy