@JasonTerminator: Dude, don't even talk about paper launches if you don't know what they are. Just because AMD is showing it off doesn't mean they have launched it. Even thought AMD has been known lately (ever since the core architecture HMMM!) for paper launches doesn't mean this is one.

@EnigmaNemesis: Oh sure try and get yourself out of the stereotype of PC gamers throwing away money by stating that you play on 700+ dollars worth of consoles AND a PC

I'm a PC gamer that believes and tries to push that you can afford a gaming computer without breaking the bank. This card is an enthusiast card, meaning 400+. They are only worth it if you are going to be 1080p+ gaming on a large expensive TV/Monitor. In other words only if you already spent a lot of money on a screen, thus have a lot of money to spend. It's a great time to be a PC gamer in terms of component prices. The processor price wars brought down those prices, the memory prices are ROCK BOTTOM, the launch of the 3870 and 8800gt have made GFX affordable. There you have the three main components of a computer, at better quality and performance than an Xbox360.

chewbenator

Dudes, yo, man, I'm totally done with PC gaming, bros. Sick of it. Sick of the upgrades! PS3 will last long enough. Dudes, yo.

ethic

@interstate78: Indeed. I like PC games and there are some I would like to play, but I would rather use the money for upgrading my PC in console games or a console itself.

About the people that dont pay for games...you got a point, never saw it that way (they pay high bucks for the PC, but cant pay 50 for a game?)

As for the card itself, irrelevant, until specs are announced, right?

Hades

@interstate78:

nice way to generalize and lump PC gamers into one big pile of bias.

I PC Game, 360 game, PSP game, DS game, Wii game ... have yet to PS3 game, but that is coming soon!

EnigmaNemesis

i heard this can play Solitaire in Vista at 1080p

Bleentastic

...and for some reason, I'm betting Crysis will still push it to its limits.

PsycheDiver

Ok this time I'm going to do it right.

First off, thanks to all the cards manufacturers for pushing the graphics boundaries, without you we'd have gamecube-like graphics still in 2008!

Secondly, I know PCs are multi-task platforms. All tasks that my 2 year old laptop can do (and it cost 600$ back then)

But most importantly, I want to say again that I think it's very stupid to shell out over 400$ (the price of any next-gen console on which hundreds of games of all genres are released each year) for a *card* (hey hey the rest of the PC isn't free. You pay that much to play a handful of shooters and RTSs and not much else. A year later your card is outdated. Bollocks.

I just don't get it.

Well if you're all so much into big bucks spending why don't you pay for your games for a change? maybe they'd actually bother varying the genres and styles on there.

interstate78

@mcderek3000:

We are talking about the new 8800GTS (G92) version, not the older one.

Price per performance at the moment with the gouging, it is a better solution, but by the time I buy, that gap will be narrowed.

[www.tomshardware.com]

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis: From what I heard, the 8800GT is much better and cheaper than the 8800GTS

mcderek3000

@Zero_:

Cool, I have the G15 as well ... will give it a look, thanks!

EnigmaNemesis

Goddamn paper launches.

Release the next full lines already! I want an 8800gt for $100, you bastards!

JasonTerminator

@EnigmaNemesis:

Yeah, the Nvidia control panel that comes with the driver updates doesn't have temp monitoring, but instead you need to install nTune (that then comes with the NV Monitoring Panel), which IMO is a huge pain in the ass for just 1 little feature.

But, since I have a Logitech G15 Keyboard with the little LCD panel there, I instead use Everest, that can get all the temp info of all my components and feed it onto my keyboard LCD screen, so it's all on the fly! :D I do suggest using Everest though, you can still throw a system tray icon there that tracks the temps (As well as other information).

Zero_

@Detre:

Yeah I plan on it!

EnigmaNemesis

@Zero_:

Thanks a bunch. Good information. I also like how the GTS blows the heat out of the case as well. Even though I need not worry with the SLI Thermaltake Armor case I have. But more heat outside is always a bonus.

As far as checking temperatures... you still have to use the separate utility for nVidia right? Or do you just do the registry hack to get old control panel for the drivers? (also hate how the newest driver release took away the old way for color correction, and put it in the new control panel) ... so I still use 163.75 for the old one since it has the numbers I need to tune. The new one uses different number scale and has me all screwed up. Unless I can do the registry hack on the newest drivers for the old interface?

Hate when companies don't give "options" and take them away.

EnigmaNemesis

@Detre: Thats what im going to do :D...

tocatl

I <3 ATI. I just hope that card blends my Crysis and chops my Prototype.

plantationace

@EnigmaNemesis:

I bloody love it actually. I too was in the predicament of choosing a GT or a GTS 512, and opted for the GTS 512 after some thorough thinking. One point being that the GT gets really hot (due to it's small fan and single slot design), I think I read on sites it can top 90C+ on Load. My GTS, when playing tops up at about 84C max, and idles (like now for instance) 65C.

In regards to noise, I heard the GT gets really whiny thanks to it's small it was 65mm fan. The one on the GTS 512 is much bigger, so less noise and better cooling (much large HSF, due to the dual slot design)

But in regards to performance, the GTS 512 is obviously faster/better in most regards over the GT. I get about an avg 120FPS on TF2 with everything max with 8xAA. The only thing that should stop you is the price, and whether it's a worthy sacrifice. At least when I was getting it, retailers were price gouging the GT to about $430AU, when the GTS was $470AU, so made sense.
Hope that helps.

Zero_

@EnigmaNemesis: just wait a bit till the 9 series come out. The price will drop on the GTS.

Detre

specs found here:
[www.hardforum.com]

jynxycat

by the by, all the specs can be found here;

[www.hardforum.com]

jynxycat

nVidia scored huge points this generation with the 8800GT, a (at launch) $250 card, which went head long towards the 8800GTX.

Info has been leaking on the 9 series cards slowly, and it appears nVidia is going the X2 route as well. Remains to be seen if they give us another mid-range pricing on a rather high end card.

jynxycat

Nice! Can I cut up my old graphics cards with it?

TheCleaningGuy

@jynxycat:

Which finally at this point I can say thank goodness they dont (for now). Use the potential of what you have. A new $500 card every 6 months that we went through a few years ago sucked big time. The cards never reached their full potential, and game makers were putting out engines to keep up with the cards, and leaving others in the dust, thus giving PCs a bad rep of upgrading all the time.

Keep it standardized for now, and use the potential you have. Sometimes slowing down a bit can be really beneficial.

EnigmaNemesis

I don't think I could cut through a shoe with any of my graphics cards... that _does_ look pretty good!

amost

The funny thing is that it actually looks like it will slice and dice.

suyaandsammie

Its the 3870 X2, it's just literally two 3870 cards taped together.

Same thing nVidia did with the 7950X2, and the same thing nVidia is doing for the initial 9 series launch.

Who cares.

This won't capture them any of the market back, hence why nVidia isn't releasing new architecture for it's 9 series, they don't have to.

jynxycat

@Zero_:

Sweet, how do you like that GTS512? I am thinking of either that or the 8800GT.

I currently have a 7950GT that was unused and given to me from a friend when I built my new rig. And it is pretty sweet, but I know the 8800GT or GTS (G92) would crank.

Just not sure if paying $100 more over the GT (they are price gouging I know .. should only be $40-$50 more tops) ... is worth it since the performance is not leaps and bounds.

EnigmaNemesis

that thing doesn't power computers... it powers houses. It needs its own generator to help you produce massive graphics that can be run by the greatest non-existent computers. THAT is how good this 4 long red beast is.

shindokie

@NitrousO: I guess thats one way to keep the thing cool ;)

mingthemagnificent

I highly doubt this card will trump even the 8800 Ultra. The GTX has been out for more than a year, and ATI has had nothing in a years time to rival that performance. I also highly dislike ATI's handling of drivers, that Catalyst crap is so clunky.

Thankfully, I switched from an X600 to an Nvidia 8800GTS 512 and will never go back to ATI.

Zero_

Damn ATI. I doubt that'd fit in my computer either. As much as I love stuffing new hardware into my case, I'll have to sit this one out for a few years :'(

MetaKz

Is that the new 55hp engines?

Scazza

Until we have some benchmarks, it is entirely meaningless. I'm looking to build a new system very shortly, but ultimately all I care about are performance, cost, stability and how hot the thing runs.

Chop chop with providing review sites with preview cards, ATI!

Sugoi

@mingthemagnificent: Both, the fan has 500HP, I took my computer out for a cruise on the lake and hit 130 MPH.

NitrousO

I hope it can toast my bread in the morning and spurt out coffee into my cup.

Eating_Sushi

Is that a graphics card or an outboard motor?

mingthemagnificent

Remember the days when the card was 6 inches long and had no heatsinks on the chips? Man, I feel old....

CerberusXTX

Yes it can do all THAT! But is it faster than the Nvidia's new 9800?

okenny :)

@ChickenOfTheSea:

I will nuke blendtec if they blend one of these babies.

narcosis219

@BPMΩ:

I'd actually be pretty disappointed if it doesn't play MP3s. I mean, it's standard now, isn't it? The other day, I bought a beer and it played MP3s.

dunetiger

It Slices, It Dices, It doesn't fit into your case because it is 4 feet long ...

EnigmaNemesis

i want to see a test drive of this thing with Crysis. Now that'll give me some perspective on its power.

NeoAkira

Crysis in max settings??

munniec

I hope this puts the hurt on Nvidia. Nvidia is already beginning to stagnate with out ATI there to scare them. Gogo competition!

NitrousO

These things keep getting bigger with every iteration. Soon enough, you'll have your regular ATX tower and then your graphics tower... with speech synthesis!!! "beeee fotty toooo... booooooommmm berrrrrrr" (Does anyone here even know what an Intellivision is?)

dunetiger

@ChickenOfTheSea:
And will it play Doom... 3?

BPMΩ

But will it blend?

ChickenOfTheSea

@Marlor:

True that ... heck most PC games recently it is less than 2 months.

EnigmaNemesis

liquidnumb wrote: The options available are to pay the full $50, pirate, or leave it be.

There's another option: wait for the game to drop to half price. It usually takes less than a year.

Marlor

@liquidnumb:

Exactly.

I buy a new PC every four years or so, and with my last two PCs I've also splashed out for a new graphics card once the PC is around two years old. I consider this pretty hardcore... I like my PC games.

Even towards the end of each PC's life-cycle, it's rare that I find a game I can't play comfortably (even if I do have to drop the detail sometimes).

Yet I know people who spend thousands of dollars on PC hardware each year. They pay more for a pair of graphics cards (that they only keep for a few months) as I spend on my whole PC over its lifetime. Yet we are both playing the same games. It's crazy.

Marlor

"Ah, the usual, slicing, dicing..."

[youtube.com] [0:22]

Barts

@dowingba:
I see where you're coming from, but I'd like to add a little of my own perspective to your take on piracy. I'm not always sure it's the morals the people don't find worth $50, it's the game that isn't.

The options available are to pay the full $50, pirate, or leave it be. Rarely do I play a game long enough to warrant paying that kind of cash, but I'd really rather not pirate it.

If developers are confident that they are producing a product that is worth the kind of money they are asking, and knowing that piracy exists in any case, they really ought to be exploring the available alternatives. Some are, most aren't.

Let me rent a game for a weekend for 5$. Or a week for 10$. Then if I want to keep it just let me pay the difference. Break the content into separate parts. If I don't want the single player stuff, let me buy a multiplayer only version for a reasonable discount.

liquidnumb

@EnigmaNemesis: Neither do I, just saying I wouldn't spend twice as much money to play the same amount of games (because I don't have time). Already got my time full with COD4, TF2, and various strategy games. Time to go to bed its 2AM here -_-

chewbenator

* I meant $500 dollars every 6 months. It seemed to be the median figure for the thread.

liquidnumb

What I don't understand is the people who complain about having to spend $500 a month because what they really can't stand is not being able to play every brand new game they buy at 1600:900 and max settings. One of the advantages of PCs and gaming with them is that the software and the hardware are both scalable.

liquidnumb

@JasonTerminator: To me, and people in the upper echelons of PC hardware a paper launch is when a company officially launches a product, but isn't available to consumers for a period of weeks or months. For example, when AMD launched their low power dual cores you couldn't buy them for at least three weeks after they "launched"

@dowingba: I only pirate games there isn't a demo for or are out of print/not available. If I'm going to play a game seriously I will buy it. It's good that you've quit the habit. To some morals are worth more than 50 bucks, and I guess I'm one of those people (well I usually pick up games for 30-40 :)

chewbenator

@chewbenator:

Well that is your issue. Doesnt make me "throwing away my money", I just dont spend it on trendy clothes and other items I find worthless to me.

Gaming is my lifestyle and hobby, thus why I reserve my money in that domain.

Just because you cant do it, doesnt make me any less of a person, or wasteful person.

EnigmaNemesis

By the way, back when I was a die-hard PC gamer (I wouldn't even touch a console with a ten-foot pole for a while there), I pretty much never legitimately bought a game. The only games I ever in my life bought for the PC were, Rainbow Six (and Eagle Watch, used), C&C Generals/Zero:Hour, Total Annihilation and Knights of the Old Republic. Everything else I always pirated. It wasn't even up for debate; it just seemed like the default way to get games.

That's why the PC game industry has such a hard time making money. For some reason they just don't seem to offer enough incentive to actually pay for the game. It's so easy to pirate games these days that PC game developers are essentially just relying on the honor system and people's morals to make a buck. And let me clue you in: Morals are worth alot less than $50 to alot of people.

(Disclaimer: I no longer pirate games. I just wanted to make that clear.)

dowingba

@chewbenator:

"A paper launch is the situation in which a product is compared or tested against other products, despite the fact that it is not available to the public at the time."
[en.wikipedia.org]

"ATI R680 Graphics Card Is 1000X Faster Than a Cray-1 Supercomputer"
[gizmodo.com]

Seems to fit the criteria.

JasonTerminator

Why? Because, at least for me, it isn't physically possible to play all the games I want to play on all of the 4-7 current consoles + PC. Also, it isn't financially possible for me to do that, just the cost of the systems would be enormous, at least for me.

chewbenator

But does it play Blu-Ray, or HD-DVD?

dowingba

@chewbenator:

Sorry, not a PC gamer, but a GAMER!

Thanks!

And how does gaming on a PC and all the consoles throwing away money? Unless gaming in general is a big waste of money!

EnigmaNemesis

Alright...Duke Nukem 2, here I come!

DelDeadeyes

@FitzRhapsody:

It consumes the apples one slice at a time for bio-energy to help run the card. But it also takes 1 apple a minute when running Crysis on anything higher than medium settings.

EnigmaNemesis

Wait. If it's a graphics card, then it goes inside your computer, right? So then, why did they design it so you can slice an apple into 17 pieces? Is there a slot in front of your tower where you can put it in? If so, where do the apple pieces come out? Is it self-cleaning, or will it gunk up your computer? There are so many unanswered questions. *sigh* So confused...

FitzRhapsody

@EnigmaNemesis:

The consensus is pretty much that the GTS 512s aren't the best option when it comes to value.

They perform around 10% better than a standard GT in average situations. That's on-par with an overclocked 8800 GT. In some benchmarks they do better, but not enough to justify the price difference for most people.

For considerably less than the price of a GTS, you can get an up-market 8800GT. There are some on the market with small factory overclocks and nicer, quieter fans than the stock models have (e.g. from XpertVision and Gainward).

I've seriously considered upgrading my graphics card (a 7900GT) earlier than planned, since the 8800GT is amazing value... but I figured there's nothing to lose from holding off for another six months and seeing how things pan out.

Marlor

@EnigmaNemesis: Oh, just saw your link in the later post. Those numbers aren't quite accurate, however, because the GTX cards I've seen have higher a higher core clock and memory clock than the one they list there. My aforementioned 8800GTS 640 has a core clock of 600, and a memory clock of a whopping 1.6 Ghz. The shaders clock listed there is accurate, though. Also, a quick glance at BFGTech's cards (those and ASUS are the best IMO) show a GTX 768 with a core of 600 and a memory clock of a whopping 1.8 Ghz. Anyway this is getting a bit tangental, but I'd look hard at the 8800GT cards, and any pre-OCed cards before making a choice. Also, the GT seems to have driven the price of the GTX down, the one I just listed is selling for $455 on newegg now, it was $529 a few months ago.

Karlott

@EnigmaNemesis: Unless the GTS 512 is overclocked, like the BFG Tech 8800GTS 640 (mine, and I love it, ASUS and PNY also make that card I think) the performance will likely be higher on the 8800GT, AND cost less.

Karlott

I like my 8800GTS-640, thankyouverymuch

But I'll consider buying an ATI card when they consider to stop making crappy drivers.

I got an ATI card here at work where I use lots of DirectX 9 and OpenGL 2.1 intensive applications (video and 3D), and if I have more than one open at a time my system could very well blue screen citing ATI's driver.

That never happened with the 6800GT I had in here prior =( a weaker card than the 2900XT I have now, but it was much more reliable.

absentblue

That looks about 12 inches.

moshakirby

It's official, the videocard market has officially gone insane. How much bigger and more expensive can these cards get? Oh, and guess what? It still won't run Crysis well.

Strangelove

@rollerbldes:

Powerful cards equal demanding games.

The more powerful the cards get, the more demanding the games get. Tech-heads will always want games that stress their new cards, and developers will be there to create them.

However, good games should be scalable, so they can run on more realistic system. Most are like that, and the few that don't scale well aren't worth worrying about.

Marlor

@Strangelove: I'm guessing you just answered your own question. Until they can play the most demanding game out there with full effects.

rollerbldes

I want to know why more people aren't ripping crysis for requiring such ridiculous hardware like they did with tribes back in its day...

phor11

@Marlor:

Yeah, that is the thing, I have the 7950GT, should I get the 8800GT in a month, or wait 6 months. Even with 1920x1200 and high texture settings, the 7950GT plays everything fine. Obviously not Crysis, but nothing plays that fine at that resolution.

EnigmaNemesis

@Karlott:

I know what you are saying ... And will be looking at the end of this month, so hopefully things will be normal as far as price gouging goes!

EnigmaNemesis

@Karlott:

Those were the reference boards, all the higher ones you see out there are factory overclocks. Has been a trend for some time now.

EnigmaNemesis

@ChickenOfTheSea: Dude, /EVEYRTHING/ blends. Except crowbars, I guess.

The Great Moof

@Marlor:

/agree

I will wait... C&C3 runs maxed and 100% fine @ 1920x1200, same with BfME2, Empire at War.

Unreal Tourney 3 at that rez is not as fast as it could be, but at the high settings it is on I get 30-40 FPS which is very respectable.

Dont care for Crysis at the moment. Unless a card can come that will have it running great with all the bells and whistles.

EnigmaNemesis

@EnigmaNemesis:

Sorry I'm replying so late...

Personally, I've decided to wait six months or so. There are three main reasons:
- All of the games I own are running fine.
- When I built the PC, I planned to upgrade the graphics card at around the two year mark, so I'd prefer to stick to that plan.
- ATI and NVidia both still have things in the pipeline that are going to be revealed during the next six months (although whether they are affordable or readily available is another matter).

The 8800GT almost enticed me to buy it, because it is such damn good value. But it will still be there in six months, and if nothing else comes along then at least it should be slightly cheaper.

However, if I end up buying a game in the next six months that struggles with my 7900GT, then I will probably cave in and upgrade.

Marlor

You mean like they did with Trespasser. Now that takes me back...

Messer

@Marlor: I wouldn't bet on Nvidia or ATI releasing anything in 6 months that's beyond old tech with more makeup.

nvidia's 9 series are just two 8 series cards on one board.

jynxycat

The specs were revealed, I double posted the link :P

This card is essentially two 3750s in one. It's what nVidia did with the 7950X2.

It's not new tech, it's a stop-gap.

What's funny is, nVidia is doing the same thing with the 9 series, because they have no competition for high-end cards. Buy some time with redesigned old tech, then come out with a brand new architecture.

jynxycat