industry news
Nintendo Responds To December NPD Sales, Seems Pleased
Posted by Michael McWhertor at 2:45 PM on January 18, 2008
There's absolutely no doubt that Nintendo is pleased as punch with its performance in the US this past holiday season. It is, no doubt, ecstatic. The Nintendo DS and Wii were the two best-selling platforms stateside not just for the month of December, but for the entirety of 2007. Highlights from the statement we just received include awesome sales of Wii Play, both Brain Age titles and Super Mario Galaxy. Cammie Dunaway, Nintendo's new EVP of sales & marketing says the company is "sold out of virtually all hardware, and much of our stock of software and accessories was sold out as well, thanks to the broad appeal of Wii and Nintendo DS."
Look, it's just good news across the board for the folks in Kyoto and Redmond. The full statement is below. Try not to get too depressed that you don't own any Nintendo stock.
INDEPENDENT DATA REVEALS NINTENDO SALES FOR 2007
Nintendo DS and Wii Finish as the No. 1 and No. 2 Best-Selling U.S. Systems
REDMOND, Wash., Jan. 17, 2008 - Nintendo DS™ and Wii™ finished strong in 2007, commanding sales in the holiday shopping period and finishing the year as the two best-selling video game systems in the United States, according to new data just released by the independent NPD Group. Nintendo DS was the top-selling U.S. system of 2007, with nearly 8.5 million sold, including more than 4 million in November and December alone. Wii placed second, with nearly 6.3 million sold through the year, more than 2.3 million of which sold in the final two months.
"By the end of 2007 we were sold out of virtually all hardware, and much of our stock of software and accessories was sold out as well, thanks to the broad appeal of Wii and Nintendo DS to core gamers, women, families, grandparents - and seemingly everyone in between," said Cammie Dunaway, Nintendo of America's executive vice president of sales & marketing. "And that momentum continues here in the early weeks of 2008."
Some additional facts about Nintendo's 2007 performance in the United States (note: All figures are from NPD):
* Nintendo accounted for 52 percent of all video game hardware systems sold in 2007 - more than all other manufacturers combined.
* Since their respective launches, Nintendo has sold more than 17.6 million Nintendo DS systems and nearly 7.4 million Wii systems in the United States alone.
* Wii Play™, a collection of nine fun mini-games, finished 2007 with 4.1 million units sold.
* Super Mario Galaxy™ sold through more than 2.5 million copies since it launched on Nov. 12.
* The two games in the Brain Age® series each sold about 1 million copies in 2007.
* Half of the top 30 best-selling games of 2007 were made for Nintendo systems, including Pokemon® Pearl, Pokemon® Diamond, Mario Party® DS, Guitar Hero III™: Legends of Rock and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games™.
* Nintendo continues to dominate the hand-held market: Of the top 30 best-selling portable games sold in 2007, 25 were made for Nintendo DS and another two were made for Game Boy® Advance.
* Sales of Nintendo DS systems grew 60 percent over those from 2006.
* In 2007, the video game industry grew by 43 percent over 2006. Nintendo is responsible for 60 percent of that growth.

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
mmmmmVidyagames
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@SCHIZOROGUE: Kotaku needs an edit button...
I think it's a little oddd that 1/3 of the Wii's sales were in teh last two months...
mmmmmVidyagames
Erwin211
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@baberg: Don't ever lump Oompa Loompas and kids together. Kids are young, stupid, and ignorant. Oompa Loompas are wise and experienced.
I don't know any kids who had to deal with Vermicious Knids.
Erwin211
waitinthecar
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Given the choice, I definitely would have gone with this pic:
[www.dvdtimes.co.uk]
waitinthecar
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@ZinkO: can do italics now!:
yes, because their games are lightyears beyond anything any third party can do!
/sarcasm
They can be more proactive in their marketing strategy, and worry about gamers again. They like the one hit wonders cause they profit off of them, but that will eventually see its peak ... and then what after they scared all the 3rd parties away by not marketing their system in that way, and courting them like the other two do? It will be too late. But that do they care I suppose, they make money regardless, and that is all three makers primary goals, but it would be nice if they threw their fans a bone other than their own games every 6 months to a year.
So who wins in the end? Just Nintendo, but not the gamer. Though the ones who think Nintendo system sales all of a sudden make their system better is baffling, since I thought it was the games, and having a good portion of them.
If they didn't make money of every Wii sold, you can bet your bottom dollar, the thing would have a heavier third party focus.
EnigmaNemesis
Archangeldeath
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: I thinking third parties were still worry about what happen with GCN. Nintendo had to prove that their system could stand on it two feet even with the hardware disadvantage compare to two other systems. Anyone noticed how much advertisements there was for third party games on Wii? Pretty weak.
Archangeldeath
asianmacker
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Its too bad Nintendo forgets to mention the depressing 3rd party situation......oh and they also seem to forgot why the GameCube failed. Gloat all you want Reggie, but history has a tendency to repeat itself.....
asianmacker
d1sco_d3ath
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
I like that Nintendo opted to not point fingers at Microsoft or Sony in their release. Unlike Microsoft who happily danced around the flaming corpse of Sony.....Lol
Well played Nintendo.
d1sco_d3ath
TheIrishNinja (PSN), IrishNinja2099 (XBL)
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@BPM64: The Second Attack!: you and me both. at this point, id just love to see No More Heroes do well over here, or you know, pretty much any solid 3rd party game.
We know Smash Bros is gonna sell crazy, Mario Kart'll do just fine even if it was ass on disc. But the 3rd party love, its not here yet.
TheIrishNinja (PSN), IrishNinja2099 (XBL)
KeroseneClimax
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@Sabre_Justice: He's a character in a 1980's Kurt Russell film called "Big trouble in Little China".
KeroseneClimax
McWhertor
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@Sabre_Justice: You've never seen Big Trouble In Little China? Get thee to a John Carpenter section right quick!
[en.wikipedia.org]
McWhertor
baberg
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@McWhertor: I was gonna go with Willy Wonka and some Oompa Loompas, but it was voted down. :(
I would have voted for that too, if for no other reason than to bathe in the comment carnage afterwards - "What are you saying, Nintendo is for kids and Oompa Loompas? Nintendo uses slave labor to make their games?!"
baberg
ZinkO: can do italics now!
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
So what exactly is Ninty supposed to do for third parties? Stop making amazing games?
ZinkO: can do italics now!
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@Archangeldeath:
Yes, but they dont see other third party games mentioned with high sales. They are a lame duck in this regards.
They see Nintendo only caring about their sales and their sales only. Not too healthy for 3rd party relations. Healthy for Nintendo, not for the gamers or developers.
EnigmaNemesis
Crux117
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
2008 looks to be an even better year for Nintendo. Cant wait for SSBB!!!!!
Crux117
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@TinyLightning:
...
EnigmaNemesis
ffmusicdj
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@Witzbold: Yea, it is a fun toy to play with, but I don't know if it will be a fun toy 3-4 years down the line? Unless you guys bot a Wii knowing it's not a 3-4 year investment?
ffmusicdj
Archangeldeath
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Don't worry, after the third parties see those figures they will be assimilated. Resistance to the money is futile. I hope Nintendo release Duck Tales for the VC as a way to celebrate. :)
Archangeldeath
Sabre_Justice
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Gotta love the set of pics.
Who is Lo Pan though?
Sabre_Justice
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@McWhertor:
That would have been more fitting and much funnier, especially the creepy Depp one!
Not that this was "bad", just should have been used first and Lo Pan last ... those two were just too good!
EnigmaNemesis
PooPooKaKaBumBum
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@ot79: No More Heroes is the one game that has me teetering toward getting a Wii. If the third party stuff continues to bomb and there's no more games like Zack and Wiki and No More Heroes, there's no more point in me buying one.
I won't end up like I did with the GCN where the only game I really liked was Eternal Darkness. (A fine game it is though!)
PooPooKaKaBumBum
KeroseneClimax
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Nintendo having amazing sales? I've seen more surprise in a Shounen comic. It's nice that they're pleased in these statistics, but with their extra expenses safely in their pockets; can they finally buy a few Cat o' nine tails to whip the members of their quality control department? Far too much trash leaks on their Wii console so early in it's life expectancy.
@McWhertor: I think I'm going to check out First Contact now. This pic reminded me how long it's been since I've last seen it. Thank you.
KeroseneClimax
SSJPabs
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
If they are virtually sold out of hardware that means Ebay Wii re-sales are now viable again! $450 a pop here we come!
SSJPabs
Witzbold
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@McWhertor: You made me spit out my lunch orange juice with that one sir.
I still wonder if Wii Play sold so much becase its actually fun or because folks wanted a second remote. Granted though the target shooting games is fun though, and there are some INSANE vids on youtube of people going nuts with the Wii remote.
Witzbold
ridleysaria
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Wiisistance is futile.
ridleysaria
ot79
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: Yes,it´s obviously and worrying the bad sales of 3rd party games,getting aside a few exceptions,look at the No More Heroes example in Japan,and like you say,it seems that Nintendo does not give a damn about this,hopes this change for the good of Wii owners.
ot79
Irenicus-the one and only
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@McWhertor: Now that would be a perfect pic.
Irenicus-the one and only
atomos
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
They could have gloated a lot more if they wanted to.
atomos
Irenicus-the one and only
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: I thought this pic was awsome, but not fit for Nintendo, still, anytime I see something star trek related especially the borg I get warm inside :)
Ty MCWHERTOR! To all the pictures in your latest articles.
As for the article, atleast Nintendo thanked the core gamers first :D See they love you! And they are best, winner, excellent, number 1... and 2, Nintendo beats all, okey I can't take it anymore :/
@altgod: Shame on you :( Go and watch Star Trek now!!! :)
Irenicus-the one and only
J-Fro
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
"I am the beginning. The end. The one who is many. I am the Wii!"
I have yet to be assimilated but it's only a matter of time. I'll wait for the inevitable price drop.
J-Fro
-EDGE-
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
I'd hit that
-EDGE-
ssjmichael
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Does anyone still think the Wii is a fad? I used to, but I realize it's not. It's here to stay and that's fine. My main concern is about the games for it. They have plenty of first party titles now, but what about the future? Will there be another Mario game? Another Zelda? Another Metroid? How long till we see those? If Nintendo still continues to shun 3rd party developers in favor of their software, then I see sales declining as time passes on.
I do realize they have other first party games they've yet to tackle, such as Donkey Kong and Starfox, and spin-offs of Mario. Just wondering if it'll be enough in 2 years
ssjmichael
TinyLightning
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
for some reason Borg Queen screams Nintendo. Wii are the Borg.
TinyLightning
alias_007
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
I'm slightly urked by them bragging about Wii Play... don't get me wrong... it would probably sell well anyway just because it says Wii on it, but I know from personal experience that telling people that are desperate for Wiimotes that for $10 they can get another game to go with their new system was pretty much the main way to get them to move.
Sure, Nintendo kicked ass, I'm not denying that. I'm just saying that I don't think Wii Play would've sold 4 million units if it didn't have a Wiimote in the box.
alias_007
McWhertor
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: I was gonna go with Willy Wonka and some Oompa Loompas, but it was voted down. :(
McWhertor
shrewd
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
I went onto Kotaku right now and saw the three NPD posts all at once. The fact that only the first word was changed in each title made me chuckle. :)
shrewd
BPM64: The Second Attack!
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Wii Play™, a collection of nine fun mini-games, finished 2007 with 4.1 million units sold.
More like, a Wii Remote with a couple of fun mini-games, and a bunch of rubbish ones, right?
Wish Zack & Wiki was one of those top-selling titles, though...
BPM64: The Second Attack!
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@ssjmichael:
Yes!
EnigmaNemesis
Guizzy
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
I'm still waiting for Gamepark Holdings to respond to the December NPD Sales (and seeming pleased).
...
...
I'm going to pull a chair, if you don't mind.
Guizzy
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Sad they dont have 3rd party sales to toot. But I guess they wont care for that since their own stuff makes them moniez.
EnigmaNemesis
Lezard
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@altgod: That's the Borg Queen from Star Trek: First Contact.
Lezard
Car2oon
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Will Ninty, this is the part where you SAVE THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE!!
Car2oon
ssjmichael
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@altgod:
Star Trek
ssjmichael
ot79
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
@ot79: oh dumb of me,they already post it,lame -.- still this is the best!
ot79
ssjmichael
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
"Nintendo accounted for 52 percent of all video game hardware systems sold in 2007 - more than all other manufacturers combined."
Isn't that last part obvious based on the first part?
ssjmichael
DXY!
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Now all we want are games for our Nintendo hardware.
Or I could just buy Brawl and let that sit in my Wii for months like Melee has since I got my Wii XD
DXY!
altgod
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Ok, I was waiting for the final pic. What is that from?
altgod
ot79
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ROFLOLROFLOLOLOLOLOL, This picture is totally win,I love you Kotaku!!! XDXDXD Can´t wait to see the Sony´s picture =D=D=D=D=D
ot79
FusionHype
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Resistance is futile.
FusionHype
White-Sharingan
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
props nintendo for not commenting against Sony and MS directly, props for you <3
White-Sharingan
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
Ok, this pic is meh. All the good ones were used up already!
EnigmaNemesis
SCHIZOROGUE
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
dammit, misspell
SCHIZOROGUE
Cartman86
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
lol
Cartman86
SCHIZOROGUE
Posted 2:38 PM 18/1/08
ALL HAIL THE QUENN!!!
SCHIZOROGUE
Mact
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@ridleysaria:
We have a winner!
Though, really, the Borg Queen suits Nintendo perfectly.
Eventually, you will own a DS, a Wii, or both.
Mact
Zio
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EmeraldDragon: Nice post, but I think the Nintendo bashers (you guys know who you are)are going to harp on about this 3rd party sales crap for a while longer.
Zio
Samos42
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
The evil picture theme = awesome.
Samos42
Mact
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
Probably because their third parties don't know how to advertise.
I also didn't know Guitar Hero III was made by Nintendo, so what do I know?
Mact
EmeraldDragon
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
That is kind of making a lot of assumptions, don't you think?
If the shoe was on the other foot, and Sony or MS had a dozon mascots that could sustain them through a whole generation, do you honestly think they'd still be handing out money to help out 3rd parties? Personally, I doubt it. MS and Sony have similar business models for their game division, that is, they live on 3rd party games. They are forced the court the 3rd parties so they have games on their consoles.
But on the other hand, the 3rd parties are kind of reaping what they sowed. I didn't see very many of them chipping in to make AAA games for the N64 or the GC. So why should Nintendo kowtow before them now that they are making money hand over fist?
As for all the complaining about the games on the Wii right now, I don't recall the 360 or the PS2 having a particuarly mind blowing first year game wise.
EmeraldDragon
kidnicky
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Are Activision and Sega considered "third parties"? I mean,since they didn't make the console,they must be third parties. So why are will all saying this press release doesn't include third party games that have sold well?
Nevermind. Don't let reading comprehension get in the way of bashing Nintendo.
kidnicky
Kenofthedead
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
No one will want to buy a Wii a month after it's released.
Now to go back to playing my Phantom.
Kenofthedead
r0Be
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Enigmanemesis:
:|
Seriously....the industry is going to be okay. Nintendo have always sold a boatload of software, because it's great software. This generation they happen to be leading the console sales category as well, just as they did in the SNES/NES ERA. It's okay though. They might not lead next generation, or the one after that.....or they could.
Either way, quit flaming the "teh industry is going down, no more hardcore softwarez, PANIC PANIC PANIC" fire.
There are tons of games across 3 consoles (that are going nowhere) and PC....the industry is making more money then ever. Competition is good, there are scads and scads of competitors in the marketplace.
These companies aren't going to stop making games or certain types of games any time soon.
r0Be
baccardi84
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
i still think the wii is a fad.... :P
baccardi84
EmeraldDragon
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
kudos
EmeraldDragon
Ratfoot
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
I really wish I had bought Nintendo stock when I had the chance. And I thought the name Wii would hurt their stock...
Ratfoot
slacker164
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
The other two don't promote budget/niche titles either. They did the whole press conference thing when they landed Monster Hunter 3 and even made a big deal out of Red Steel. As far as I can tell Nintendo is working just fine with third parties, but it's the third parties that are just too damn skeptical to put real games on the system.
slacker164
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
If you have nothing constructive to prove here, and continue to get personal and call my issues I have with it "rants", I will assume ignore you.
Thanks.
EnigmaNemesis
Komrade_Kayce
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Nintendo isn't the borg.
Nintendo is more Skynet, they have no need to absorb your feeble human body, and have developed a plan to invade every single home on earth. Just wait you guys, those Wii's are going to be glowing RED one morning when you guys wake up, and then it will be too late.
Microsoft is the borg. They'll just throw money at something (resistance is futile?) until it becomes part of the Xbox 'collective'. And haha, 'Games for Windows'. And Windows itself.
You guys will see.
Komrade_Kayce
RawSteelUT
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@ssjmichael: Too bad they don't amount to even a quarter of software sales, am I right?
@EnigmaNemesis: I don't think we need to worry about a Nintendo only industry for some time. So long as the 360 continues to dominate the software charts and the PS3 catches up the way it's been doing, gamers are safe. Though rest assured that I'll not be buying the next Nintendo machine, at least until it's at a discount with a several years of Nintendo games already out. I'm done with their business practices.
RawSteelUT
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
It is easy for Nintendo Defense-men to say, "well third parties need to try harder, and make better stuff".
That is not how the gaming industry works. Sure they have to for Nintendo, which is EXACTLY why they wont. MSFT and Sony work hand and foot, pay for advertising, and give free advertising to third parties at press events. They wine, dine, and 69 them.
It takes two to tango. And Nintendo is just as guilty as not giving two shits at this point in time, cause why should they, they profit anyhow. Great for Nintendo, bad for their gamers.
And my favorite, "Zak and Wiki and NMH are niche games". News to those who say this, the entire console is being marketed as a "niche". If those other games were on the 360 or PS3, they would have had ads and other promotional materials helped paid for by MSFT or Sony, and word would have been out there. It is hard for a 3rd party to do it all on their own, and if you play with Nintendo, that is what you are going to get at this point in time.
When the systems is being marketed and sold to previous fans, grannies and non-gamers, it is no wonder 3rd party games are not selling too well. They will buy the fans Marios and Zeldas, and non-gamers will buy party mini-games once in a blue moon. Where does this leave the core gamer who craves more?
A 360 or PS3. And that shouldn't be the case. So sit back, relax and realize, Nintendo isn't in competition with either of those two, they in competition with itself.
EnigmaNemesis
r0Be
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Sorry to backtrack a day or so, but on the Wii 2008 release list, I saw posted elsewhere that "We Love Golf" wasn't mentioned....
Is it still on schedule for spring....or is it now fall or later....
:?|
r0Be
Heavyfuel
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: Your last rant is one not shared by a majority of gamers, or, as I believe, the facts. However, we've been over this before and I won't convince you this time.
Heavyfuel
Heavyfuel
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
"Sad they dont have 3rd party sales to toot. But I guess they wont care for that since their own stuff makes them moniez."
Factually untrue. They did toot some third party games. Saying they don't care is an opinion, and an obviously negative (and probably untrue) one.
@KeroseneClimax: Sorry. I thought that when you complained about quality control you were talking about hardware. I still strongly disagree with your assessment of Wii titles available, but this is a more subjective argument than others.
Heavyfuel
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@KeroseneClimax:
How is he "fanatical"?
Cause I don't hail them for having consoles sold (which is a funny argument since Nintendo fans hated hearing it with the last generation and the PS2), and as a gamer I am concerned with their direction ending up the same as the GC with ultimately not a lot of games for me and others?
I am trying to be as rational as I can. Great for them, I mentioned plenty of times that all the stuff they are selling is good for them and their pockets obviously. But for us gamers, where does it leave us, and what direction are they trying to take the industry? A Nintendo only industry? Where third parties need not apply? If so... count me out!
I guess the borg pic was fitting! Good job McWhertor!
I don't see any attempts by them, and it will take stagnant sales for them to care, and I hope it isn't too late by then, or I wasted my $250. And I am sorry, $250 isn't a good enough investment the 3-4 great Nintendo franchises. You buy into it with the promise it will be a lucrative games machine. Not a Nintendo only box cause we wont throw third parties a bone since we profit anyhow.
Until I see them even mention such good relations and attempts to work with third party developers at any of their gaming press conferences like the other two makers do. I wont take them seriously.
EnigmaNemesis
bobafett356
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Wait, so how is mass effect second then? does Microsoft own part of Bioware? I thought if they didn't own the company is was considered third party. Whatever, didn't mean to ruffle feathers over semantics.
bobafett356
slacker164
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Do people honestly think No More Heroes would've been some smash hit in Japan on the PS3 or 360? Get real. It's a niche title, and even more so in Japan. When third parties stop doing their deer in headlights thing and put some good, marketable games(not niche titles like Z&W or NMH), they'll get sales. As long as Nintendo is the only one putting out big games, they'll stay the only one with big sales.
slacker164
KeroseneClimax
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Heavyfuel: I'm not going to even ask what the durability of a Wiimote's wrist strap has to do with my comment on whether Nintendo will be stricter on employees for allowing third party developers to make mediocre games so early in their consoles life in light of their success.
Also, EnigmaNemesis has yet to play the belligerent, clichéd "I hate all things Nintendo" card yet and is providing a neutral, factual stance with his comments. How is he "fanatical"?
KeroseneClimax
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@bobafett356:
Oh my goodness, here we go...
Mass Effect is second, Gears of War is second ... those are studios MSFT doesn't own who developed the games ...
Bungie WAS owned by MSFT during the development and at the time it was on the 360 launch, as well as they OWN the IP ... it is First Party.
Ok, how about this then, Metroid Prime 3 is second party! ORLY!?
EnigmaNemesis
Moonshadow101
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@bobafett356: Bungie was wholly owned when the game was published. That makes it first party.
If timeframe didn't matter, then Donkey Kong 64 would be a first-party Microsoft game.
Moonshadow101
bobafett356
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Halo 3 isn't first party, its second.
bobafett356
Intruder
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Resistance is futile you will be assimilated by the Wii collective ;-) ahahahaha! McWhertor good choice for the pics ;-), but ill prefer Locutus of Borg (yah know when Jean-Luc joined the borg collective hehehe)
Intruder
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Sabre_Justice:
Halo 3 isnt third party... it is first party, so not a good comparison.
Imagine if Nintendo cared and put money into third party advertising like Sony and MSFT does ... and imagine them taking interests with new third party game ideas like Sony and MSFT does ... now that would be something now wouldn't it?
It takes two. Third parties are not going to do everything on their own, when they see Nintendo not put effort into them, but they see it from Sony and MSFT.
EnigmaNemesis
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
Good luck with that!
I provide constructive feedback on this matter. Thanks for yours!
EnigmaNemesis
Heavyfuel
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@asianmacker:
I'd believe that.
Heavyfuel
Sabre_Justice
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
I've said a million times, it's the third parties' own damn fault that either their games suck tremendously or have no advertising if they couldn't get good sales on the Wii.
Imagine a Wii game with Halo 3's marketing campaign. Jillions.
Sabre_Justice
asianmacker
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Heavyfuel: I think the attach rate for the Wii is higher. But I also believe that the Wii gets lower playtime then the PS3......
asianmacker
gogators88
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Why a borg would have the need to put on red lipstick is beyond me.
Nintendo is deserving of a little more respect from both Sony and MS. Nintendo could run away with this console war, yet.
gogators88
Heavyfuel
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
While we're at it...what's the attach rate of the PS3 compared to the Wii? My guess is that the Wii will be a full game higher.
Heavyfuel
Heavyfuel
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
Their detractors are even more fanaticial *staring at you*
Heavyfuel
Heavyfuel
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@KeroseneClimax: I have no idea what you're talking about regading quality. The quality is universally regarded as exceptionally good, save people who are super strong and super clumsy and somehow get their strap to break (something I can't do while trying).
Regarding 3rd party games, don't they list a couple games that are 3rd party as among the best sellers. Yes, there is a small problem, but I don't see how this press release sheds light upon it.
Heavyfuel
Shaoko
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
So, uh... when will a 3rd party that isn't Capcom start making good games?
Shaoko
DeLoRtEd1
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Lezard: Nerrrrrrrrd!!!!!!
DeLoRtEd1
asianmacker
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
''So who wins in the end? Just Nintendo, but not the gamer. Though the ones who think Nintendo system sales all of a sudden make their system better is baffling, since I thought it was the games, and having a good portion of them.''
Thats so true. I can't stand it when a Wii fanboy brags about how many Wii's have been sold and at the same time, they are complaining about the lack of quality games. Funny thing ain't it? The only people who should be bragging about the Wii's success is Nintendo shareholders.
asianmacker
okenny :)
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Nintendo is the clear profit leader in 2007. generating a retarded amount of profit in hardware and software due to high sales and low production costs. It's like taking the ideal business solution and exaggerating it to get Nintendo's reality. These numbers are beautiful but only for Nintendo. Nintendo's victory is not shared with anyone but after seeing the growth rate of their platform, you can't blame a 3rd party publisher fro trying. Good job for Nintendo for effectively growing their business and hopefully the industry.
okenny :)
DrakeLake
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
You know, the Emperor of Mankind would have been just as nerdy and slightly cooler.
I'm just saying.
(For the Immortal God-Emperor of Mankind!)
DrakeLake
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
@Soldrak:
You ever see how rabid their fanatics are?
EnigmaNemesis
Soldrak
Posted 4:38 PM 18/1/08
Lol why is Nintendo the borg?
Soldrak
NeoAkira
Posted 11:44 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
"I think the whole world would love to know this. Since it is full of opinions and personal beliefs. And how theirs can be spun as to them trying to spew facts and lies."
It happens with Judeo-Christian Religions all the time.
NeoAkira
Heavyfuel
Posted 11:41 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
Also, thanks for ignoring my other points, though I've now made them twice.
Heavyfuel
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:40 PM 17/1/08
@Mact:
My bad, didn't know I needed a disclaimer to tell you that. Figured you were intelligent enough to figure it out on your own, since if my primary goal was to bash them, I would just flat out do it small, witty and gracefully, and not waste my time with long thoughts of mine.
You know the "game" you are trying to play, you have openly admitted it already.
EnigmaNemesis
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:38 PM 17/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
And I am saying I overlooked it because I didn't see a direct reply from you .. not as if I done it purposely. GH3 is a freak of a game and would sell on a calculator, that is proven by the latest press release, but comparative to the 360, is what I was referring too. Would be nice for a Nintendo console to have a similar press release and support for games like it.
EnigmaNemesis
Mact
Posted 11:36 PM 17/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
IT WEREZ HIZ OPIONA! DUN INZULT HYM!
...seriously. I'm going, I'm going.
Mact
Mact
Posted 11:36 PM 17/1/08
Sleepy time, by the way.
I enjoyed the game and I'm out of quarters anyway.
Mact
Mact
Posted 11:35 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
0_o
If my agenda weren't to seek out fools and bludgeon them with their own stupidity, what would I be doing here?
Weren't you busy ignoring me?
I don't care if you like Sony or not, honestly. Just going off of what I've read you type to come to a logical conclusion, hence me mentioning it.
And there is a huge difference from implying that you're implying that everything you say is opinion and stating it as fact.
Your statements about Nintendo's 3rd party were presented as fact.
Your statements about Nintendo's stock was presented as fact.
Your statements about Nintendo's investors were presented as fact.
Your statements about how MS and Sony deal with 3rd parties was presented as fact.
Where did I mess up?
I'd love to see where you stated that everything you said was opinion, actually. That would really help your argument. Unless I missed it, you didn't. You stated every single thing as if it were fact.
You're actually damned because you did and I happened to read it.
But it's always cute when people resort to the final desperate move of screaming "IT'S MY OPINION!!!!". Even if it is, to post an opinion in public is to open it to criticism.
Feel free to bash Nintendo though. Just make it something more reasonable.
...damn. That was a waste of typing. He's ignoring me. Oh! How stupid I am to think I could possibly attract his attention!
Mact
Heavyfuel
Posted 11:34 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
You said "Sad they dont have 3rd party sales to toot." However, they did have them, and included them in the press release.
Heavyfuel
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:33 PM 17/1/08
@ampillion : works it harder, makes it better, does it faste...:
Good points and well noted!
EnigmaNemesis
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:31 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
So how is ones opinions not fact and a lie again? Cause I would be delighted to hear this explanation.
What I mean to say is, how can you label my opinions as me trying to spew fact and lies? They are how I feel.
Enlighten me please ... cause I think the whole world would love to know this. Since it is full of opinions and personal beliefs. And how theirs can be spun as to them trying to spew facts and lies.
EnigmaNemesis
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:29 PM 17/1/08
href="#c3774796">Heavyfuel:
You "constructive contribution" I did not notice until now, which was one sentence long BTW calling what i said a lie, even though it was my opinion on the situation. Anyways, it was overlooked because you didnt use me in the reply, just quoted, so it wasnt noticed. Most on here look for their name to be replied to.
So nice try trying to "discredit me" for "overlooking" when I would have seen it better if the name was included in the reply.
So how is ones opinions not fact and a lie again? Cause I would be delighted to hear this explanation.
EnigmaNemesis
Heavyfuel
Posted 11:27 PM 17/1/08
^
True dat. (I love that ongoing article)
Also, it seems a lot of people have a hard time saying that they are sorry or wrong. I find it very frustrating when someone is so obstinant that they won't admit they are wrong. Often times, it is helpful to a discussion or argument to admit your wrong so you can refocus on a more important aspect of your argument, or so you can refine your argument to be stronger. This is a lesson that it seems Enigma hasn't yet learned.
At least the guy in the article admitted that he was at least partially wrong.
Heavyfuel
ampillion : works it harder, makes it better, does it faster, ma
Posted 11:26 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: What you're skipping though is the fact that Nintendo was utterly shunned by most 3rd parties for the last two generations, outside of the handheld market. People bailed when they found out they could make more money on the PS1 thanks to lower overheads. They didn't come back when the GC came out either, even though it was technically the most powerful of the three systems (Or, on par with the Xbox at the least.) There was no pull to their systems, because Sony was dominating the market.
This isn't like all three systems started out on equal grounds as far as support went. Nintendo started the Wii with only themselves (And I guess Ubisoft, if you want to count Red Steel in any way.) They knew that they were not going to have the backing of big games like the next Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid, Sony had them wrapped up already.
Yes, they do need to get more of the support of third parties. But outside of trade shows? I don't see either of the two shelling out some sort of miracle-cure support for their third-party titles. Mass Effect? I saw maybe one or two commercials for. BioShock, sure, saw a couple. Not enough to make me say 'Wow! MS is certainly showing them support!' though. There could be a lot of incentives we're just not seeing though, or that just are not disclosed by both sides, that could very well be. Seeing the exact same PS3 commercial over and over again though, certainly isn't selling any 3rd party titles for them.
The problem is that you're acting like somehow, Nintendo is some sort of horrible monster, and that MS and Sony are God's gift to the 3rd party companies. Why, because they sell more on those systems? Of course they do, they're mostly fighting amongst themselves and a few second party titles. Much easier pickings on those systems.
My view is that none of the companies are all that grand this time through. The Wii shows promise, but like the PS3 to this point, a lot of it is going unused, and the 360 is merely catering to the same audience time and again.
ampillion : works it harder, makes it better, does it faster, makes us stronger.
Mact
Posted 11:25 PM 17/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
Nah.
It's cool.
He's been a fun toy. Played the game exactly how I expected and hoped he would.
Frankly, I'll just take his "Nintendo fanatic" to mean "person who likes Nintendo". If it were to at all imply that I automatically bow and worship everything Nintendo does, well, I have previous posts to prove that bull wrong.
Mact
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:23 PM 17/1/08
@Mact:
I dont even own a damn PS3, beloved Sony, lol (that right there shows your agenda to attack). Get a clue. I comment on this as a concerned owner. But since I am seen as a "beloved Sony fan, oooookaaaay" I can see why I am seeing you try so hard to "prove me wrong". Hard to prove opinion wrong, when I never said they were FACT. I always said it was how I felt.
I never said ANYTHING was fact, but how I see things and are my opinions. You and Heavyfuel are doing a good job at trying to label things I am saying as fact, just to call me a liar and hypocrite ... and you expect healthy discourse? To discredit it with obvious agenda apparently.
Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Ah well, goals to correct my "lies" ... they are opinions. But I am "ignorant", "idiot" and it cant be hypocrisy if I FEEL this is what is going on. I never said it was gospel. Give it a rest already.
Sorry I mentioned anything about Nintendo in a concerned way ... they are G-d's gift to gaming. My bad!
EnigmaNemesis
Mact
Posted 11:21 PM 17/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
See, I figured that's how he played.
It's always easier to be right when you don't have to bother with admitting you're wrong.
I try to avoid this by... well... having proof to back up my claims. Not saying it never has happened, but I generally like to actually have fact to back myself up.
Otherwise, you're this guy:
[kotaku.com]
Mact
Heavyfuel
Posted 11:15 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
I like how you can call people "fanatics" for refusing to accept your factually incorrect statement, but when they point out this hypocrisy and correctly point out your bias, you get all annoyed.
However, as I said above, I prefer this version of Enigma to the one who used to make ad hominem attacks (other than just calling most people who disagree with him a fanatic).
Heavyfuel
Mact
Posted 11:13 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
That's a shame.
Because I think so highly of you too.
Though, really, I just call it as I see it.
You were not at all providing constructive feedback since half of it was blind assumption. "Typical Nintendo fanatic!"? Well, at the very least, I proved that much about you... And, correction, you -were- an idiot. Much like a tree is a tree before someone names it so.
Since you didn't link me to an article, I'll have to assume you mean the most recent one I can find.
[kotaku.com]
Because that one, contrary to your lie, says quite clearly that it was the US stock market's problems as a whole that were responsible, for not only Nintendo's, but your beloved Sony's stock price drop as well.
"A combination of continuing global financial uncertainty, concerns over exports, and the weak dollar saw the Tokyo Stock Exchange suffer a 4.5 per cent fall today."
Hm. Too bad. You tried so hard too...
It's probably for the better that you chose to ignore me. That means I'll have to expend less of my time correcting you in the future.
Mact
Ryosukekun
Posted 11:08 PM 17/1/08
Nintendo is doing a good job but I need better games now Have Mario galaxy, Metorid, Resident Evil 4 and Umberla Cro. Wheres Brawl and Mario Kart for Wii.
Ryosukekun
TheIrishNinja (PSN), IrishNinja2099 (XBL)
Posted 11:07 PM 17/1/08
@EmeraldDragon: true enough about the slow 1st year most consoles get, but you make nintendo sound odd and somewhat vengeful.
youre right that their first party stable (and actual profit from console sales) is a different business model that depends a lot less on 3rd parties, but its odd to imagine them still being bitter about their decision to stick to carts when everyone else was moving beyond that. I tend to picture nintendo going with the flow last, kicking & screaming (see their online setup this gen). gamecube came late to the party, but again, i adored it, not entirely sure why it didnt work out...the 3rd party love it got, though - eternal darkness, RE4 and the like, i was a big fan of.
TheIrishNinja (PSN), IrishNinja2099 (XBL)
Heavyfuel
Posted 11:06 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
I think your attempt to take the high road on this issue is interesting, if not misdirected. Calling your long, non-fact based opinion a "rant" is derogatory, but not personal.
Just like, without facts, saying the Wii doesn't have any good games isn't a personal attack on Nintendo.
However, I did make constructive contributions. I pointed out that this press release did mention successful games not developed by Nintendo. I mentioned that attach rates are often a good indicator of whether or not fans of games think that a console has good games and my belief that attach rates are probably higher for the Wii than the PS3 (this is based on numbers produced 9 months ago, so I don't know if it's still true).
I also pointed out a factually incorrect statement that you made.
Unfortunately, you've continued your normal M.O., ignoring arguments you don't like and making odd, unsubstantiated claims, even when you've been shown to be incorrect. You refuse to say you've made a mistake.
The good news is that you've at least tried to refrain from the ad hominem attacks that have plagued your earlier posts. Congratulations!
Heavyfuel
Mact
Posted 11:02 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
It is Mario, Zelda, DS and Brains because there isn't much else to advertise at the moment.
However, to imply that they say nothing about to-be surely great games is just ignorance.
[kotaku.com]
Also, you seem ignorant of one more thing: the reason for the Wii's low caliber third party titles.
You claim it's because Nintendo hasn't been working with third parties close enough and that is the problem.
Guess that's why Monster Hunter 3 is Wii-exclusive.
The fact of the matter is that the Wii has only been out for two years. Quality titles take much longer to develop than that.
Why didn't developers start earlier?
Because you don't drop millions on developing a high caliber game for a system that is a complete risk and could easily flop once it hits the consumer's hands, that's why.
Ubisoft, for one, has already stated that it is upping it's quality this year. How many more are sure to follow?
No More Heroes still hasn't hit the US either.
So, frankly, it'd do nicely for you to stop your Nintendo-loathing gloom and doom.
K?THNX!
Mact
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 11:02 PM 17/1/08
@Mact:
Well I was going to comment to you, but now that you are name calling, you will be ignored.
Thanks for playing!
Who is bias now? I was providing constructive feedback of my opinions, but now I am an idiot. Typical Nintendo fanatics!
Do a search on here, for the article about their stock dropping, even though they kept having "personal growth" ... and it has the explanation in there. "Personal Growth" is one thing, "helping others in the industry grow WITH you, like MSFT and the third parties, is another". And that is what game investors pay attention to. Since the growth of the industry relies on being intertwined like music, books and movies. Personal growth gets to be stagnant after a while to investors.
Good day!
EnigmaNemesis
bluerondo
Posted 10:55 PM 17/1/08
"Try not to get too depressed that you don't own any Nintendo stock."
Yeah....not so much. I happen to own Nintendo stock, which has fallen in value by 20% since Christmas, along with every other stock.
Nice sentiment in theory, though.
bluerondo
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 10:53 PM 17/1/08
@ampillion : works it harder, makes it better, does it faste...:
I wasn't saying Zak and Wiki in the literal sense, but saying a game that is reviewed well, obviously a good game, would get lots of free advertising from MSFT and Sony themselves to promote their system and the game.
You would see at gaming press conferences from MSFT for a game (like Z&W, not exactly like but a good game they took note of), saying, "hey there is this cool game from Capcom, we think you should check it out."
Where as you watch a Nintendo Presser, and it is Mario, Zelda, DS and Brains, and Fit board ... and virtually no mention of third party games, when they are there. That shows no effort to the game makers, so it is hard for them to take it seriously as well.
I dunno, it takes two. And Nintendo is the least proactive of the big three, and thus the least quality 3rd party titles. I am just putting two and two together here.
EnigmaNemesis
Mact
Posted 10:53 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
Where is the growth?
"* Half of the top 30 best-selling games of 2007 were made for Nintendo systems, including Pokemon® Pearl, Pokemon® Diamond, Mario Party® DS, Guitar Hero III™: Legends of Rock and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games™.
* Nintendo continues to dominate the hand-held market: Of the top 30 best-selling portable games sold in 2007, 25 were made for Nintendo DS and another two were made for Game Boy® Advance.
* Sales of Nintendo DS systems grew 60 percent over those from 2006.
* In 2007, the video game industry grew by 43 percent over 2006. Nintendo is responsible for 60 percent of that growth."
Idiot.
They said EXACTLY what MS said in different words.
I still think it's flashy the way you pretend to be neutral but reek with the stench of bias.
Mact
Mact
Posted 10:47 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
Like to give more than words to back up your statements on MS and Sony's third party policies?
Because the only commercials I've seen that were obviously paid for by either are a couple cross-console games that were advertised solely for the PS3.
Mact
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 10:45 PM 17/1/08
@Mact:
Which is exactly my point... the investors will wonder, "where is the growth". We know your stuff sells, but there is not "growth"... why do you think Nintendo stock dropped last year, even though they were profiting every quarter?
Because they lack "growth" and investors pay attention to that more than dollars and cents. That was the official answer by stock analysts. They dont see future growth to branch out.
Why do you think MSFT is promoting in their press release and gloating about "growth" so much.
Investors drive is growth ... and Nintendo will always make money off Nintendo, but without the security of drawing in outside income from other business, you will get stagnant investing.
EnigmaNemesis
Mact
Posted 10:42 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
I'm intrigued.
What, praytell, do you believe to be Nintendo's responsibility with third parties?
Make a great game or die?
Or is Nintendo supposed to fund advertising for third parties? I'm fairly sure MS and Sony don't do that.
Mact
ampillion : works it harder, makes it better, does it faster, ma
Posted 10:41 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: Zack and Wiki and NMH? You're telling me that Sony/MS would've magically shelled out money on them to advertise them? Unlikely. Neither are something you'd see either of them invest heavily into. Z&W on any other system would've been a radically different game. No remote interaction? Why not just stick it on the PC as a point and click then. I doubt it would have even existed without the Wii. NMH? Art style isn't something that shows off the power of either of the other two systems, why would you just assume either would throw cash at it? No, I just don't see the huuuuuge 3rd party support these two are supposedly showing off, unless it's in advertising games that the core were going to eat up already anyway.
First, I don't see anyone claiming 'zomg, teh are the niche games'. Gaming as a whole is a niche, it's still not nearly as big as the film industry or music industry as far as how many people it reaches. No, the failure with these two games (We'll see how NMH does in the US..) is severe lack of advertising. In the case of NMH, sure, I feel for Suda. His company isn't huge, Ubisoft is doing their release in the US, and ultimately it's up to them if it sinks or swims. But Z&W? You're telling me I should feel sorry for Capcom cause Nintendo wouldn't front them some cash to get some commercial spots? Lord knows a few little ads here and there did them rather well for the Wii RE4. Lord knows Capcom makes plenty of bank that a few hundred thousand extra for some commercial time would've done them wonders.
Sure, Nintendo does need to work with third parties and try to get them to bring more to the system. Which they are, that's why we're seeing things like Monster Hunter and support from Square (Hurray?) But in the case of other massive corporations not stepping up and taking risks with their software, why should THAT be up to them? So far, most the big expensive studios have ignored Nintendo, not the other way around.
Outside of Nintendo going out of it's way to throw millions at studios for exclusives, there's little incentive for the veteran, 'hardcore' game producer to use their expensive new hardware and software, bought to produce software for HD-capable systems, and use that to make games for a lesser powered system.
Hey, I'd love to see it happen, I'd love to see Nintendo take third party support seriously. I honestly don't think it'll happen though until Nintendo fixes it's supply issues, and has the Wii owning enough of the market share to make them realize they need more software... and that third parties realize they need more user base.
ampillion : works it harder, makes it better, does it faster, makes us stronger.
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 10:40 PM 17/1/08
@r0Be:
Not panicking, just concerned about things to come for the Wii I own. I know my 360 and when I get a PS3 it will be fine.
@EmeraldDragon:
That is kind of making a lot of assumptions, don't you think?
That is the beauty of public discourse and debate, opinions can be put on the table and discussed. Hopefully without the defensive fanboys crying foul.
If the shoe was on the other foot, and Sony or MS had a dozon mascots that could sustain them through a whole generation, do you honestly think they'd still be handing out money to help out 3rd parties? Personally, I doubt it. MS and Sony have similar business models for their game division, that is, they live on 3rd party games. They are forced the court the 3rd parties so they have games on their consoles.
I know this to be true. And I mentioned it before in previous threads. Had a long discussion in yesterdays thread (about 3rd parties not doing well on Wii) where I openly acknowledged this and gave these very examples. All those things are fine for Nintendo. For Nintendo, but where does it leave the rest of the gamers who bought their machine? Sure Sony and MSFT has to do it, but that only benefits gamers in that respect. Nintendo not having to, and not trying to when they can damn well do it, would benefit Nintendo gamers as well, but that isnt their concern. It takes two.
But on the other hand, the 3rd parties are kind of reaping what they sowed. I didn't see very many of them chipping in to make AAA games for the N64 or the GC.
Like I said, it takes two. Third parties make games for a system they see that will be beneficial to them and make them money. That is where, one part attachment rate (game sales on that platform from other makers) and another part courting (being approached by the system maker to make good games and help with financial costs). This is how it has been for a long time now.
Third party devs will see how proactive Sony and MSFT are to them, and how well their software is selling on their respected machines, and will continue the effort even more. The initial approach has to be established to entice. And Nintendo hasn't done this so openly to get games. It was a "privilege" to make games on their systems (their licensing for the NES and SNES), and since then, that license practice has died, but their failure to be so proactive still exists.
Just look how Nintendo dumped off Rare and other interests just to focus on their own stuff. Kind of concerning IMO as far as diversified games and the push for them.
So why should Nintendo kowtow before them now that they are making money hand over fist?
For the benefit of gamers, and having a diverse gaming portfolio, not just dominated by only Mario and Zelda themed games with a sprinkle of Pokemon for good measure. Like I said, fine, it is good for Nintendo, but how is it good for their gamers? Then again, their new strategy isn't aimed at core gamers anymore, but rather bringing in people who don't game, since profit is profit.
As for all the complaining about the games on the Wii right now, I don't recall the 360 or the PS2 having a particuarly mind blowing first year game wise.
Fair enough, but the 360 did have awesome attachment rates with third parties still, and both again, approach third parties to get great titles. Something Nintendo has yet to do, and/or announce. (lets hope they do)
EnigmaNemesis
Mact
Posted 10:40 PM 17/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
As you said in another NPD sales topic, these are for investors.
You expect them to outrightly advertise to them that their 3rd party games didn't sell well?
Frankly, I have yet to see a 3rd party title worthy of high sales other than Zak & Wiki and Guitar Hero III.
Geometry Wars looked good. Never saw a commercial.
Umbrella Chronicles looked good. No commercials.
Mact
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
When you see third party exclusives or a game that is multi platform but only shown a PS3 or 360 symbol at the end of the add, that is paid for. Why wouldn't developers want to advertise in that commercial all the systems?
Madden (all EA sports games rather) for instance last year, only had the 360 symbol at the end of the commercial. No mention of any other system. Simpsons only had a PS2, PSP, PS3 symbols, no 360 or Wii. Why do you think that is? Sony or MSFT will pay for that add slot on certain multi-platform game's commercial.
[kotaku.com]
[www.bit-tech.net]
The stock part I mentioned was this:
[kotaku.com]
[nintendostock.blogspot.com]
That is why i was talking about growth. If they had more games revenue from outside parties like MSFT and Sony does... investors wouldn't feel so concerned with shortages, and narrow games market on the machine etc.
And I do agree about the overall recession, and I think that will effect us ultimately more than anything.
and for my opinion, which might be fact, but i am not sure if it is, is that people buy nintendo systems for nintendo games.
I agree, and mentioned that earlier. 1 part buying it for Nintendo games, second part they are advertising it to non gamers, that dont buy as much games as a core gamer would.
I got it at first for Mario games for my wife, but I see huge potential (especially after seeing Johnny Lee videos) in the control mechanics, and wonder where are these ideas out there. People jump on MSFT for not having a supposed outlook for 08, I feel the same way with Nintendo, other than a handful of titles in which MSFT has a handful as well. Maybe I was just spoiled by the awesome second year MSFT bestowed, and the awesome second year PS3 will have, and left to wonder where is the Nintendo announcements for their second year besides mascot themed stuff we expect already?
But I am "bashing" for my concerns. Bashing is too easy, rather than typing all this crap out. And trust me, I would take the easier way out to do so, instead of losing 5-10-15-20 minutes of my time, if this was the goal.
EnigmaNemesis
asianmacker
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: Dood, forget about arguing with these closet Wii-fanboys; they will do everything in their power to discredit you because of your opinion and label you as a fanboy. I swear, Wii fanboys are the worst. Not only are they stubborn, but they will pounce on anything that remotely makes their precious console seem negative.
I honestly don't see how Enigma has a biased view. He's just like me; a concerned Wii owner. I don't know about you, but $280 for me is alot of money and I want to make sure my investment lasts for years to come. If there are no good games then that $280 console is worthless.
I am shocked that people still defend Nintendo....all the while being up in arms about not having enough good quality games to play. What the hell does that solve? It makes no sense. The best way to bring about change is to complain. Nintendo needs to get the message that first party titles can't help solve everything and that you must give the neccessary support to the 3rd party developers. Its not a one way street. You honestly think that the PS1 and PS2 would have sold 100+million each if Sony solely depended on 1st party software? Of course not. And all you need to do is look at the failure of the GC just to know that.
OT79 was so right when he said: ''....they acts like kids in rampage,blaming anyone that talk with criticism to Nintendo(even if for constructive purpose)''
asianmacker
crosswayboy
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
I bought my stock in Nintendo over a year and a half ago when it was at $26/share. Now I'm loaded!!!
Well... maybe not LOADED per se, but a few grand is nothing to scoff at.
crosswayboy
ot79
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis: ahh,just ignore them,they acts like kids in rampage,blaming anyone that talk with criticism to Nintendo(even if for constructive purpose)We don´t need to insult everyone that does not share our points of view,that only expose frustration and insecurity,we have to try to have civil discussions,I´m with you man.
ot79
dead_red_eyes
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@McWhertor:
WHAT?! That would've been awesome! Can't believe you were shot down with that.
dead_red_eyes
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
Which makes me cry a bit on the inside, cause I thought HeavyFuel and I kissed and made up.
:'(
EnigmaNemesis
thejakeman: Is unoriginal
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
again, the way you are now, you hardly make sense. take a deep breath. then reorganize your argument.
do you know for a fact (and if necessary, provide proof) that Sony and M$ pay for third party advertising or is it only when the third party games happen to get mixed in with xbox or PS commercials?
most everything else you've said has been blown out of the water.
the stock has to do with the recession that the u.s. is going through right now.
nintendo did list some third party games, they just don't sell as well. there is advertising for it. i seem to recall seeing a rather lot of rayman raving rabbids commercials. the DS has a HUGE 3rd party library, though not all are particuarly noticable.
and for my opinion, which might be fact, but i am not sure if it is, is that people buy nintendo systems for nintendo games. they tend to ignore other games out for it. i bought my wii for ssbb and all of the lightgun games that were sure to follow, myself being a lightgun fanatic. i also like MP. but many hardcore gamers and even casual gamers, will be getting the thing just for mario. even if more third party games were released, they just wouldn't sell, since the aren't made by nintendo. anyway, tomorrow is the last day before finals and i need sleep. good night.
thejakeman: Is unoriginal
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@thejakeman: Is unoriginal:
enigma, you need to learn how to debate.
Okay, so I have to ask them what they "believe" is going on. Then jump on them when I set them up, call their opinions they feel "facts" and then try and "prove them facts wrong", throw in names like "hypocrite", "ignorant", and "idiot" to try and stray off the path?
Gotcha, will try harder next time. Since they were so well at debating with that tactic used.
EnigmaNemesis
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@jive238:
And also people accuse others of stating facts, and not respecting them as opinions, in the same merit.
He asked my "beliefs" then later tried to twist them on me, throw in a few name callings (too try and get my blood boiled and make me get into a trolling match) and say I was trying to say it was all facts.
A twisted web we weave.
It is much easier to just bash the damn thing (company) than writing all that I did in two threads now. As an owner, I was sharing my opinions on how I felt (based off of seeing things from all three and how they interact), and concerned as to where they are going from here. But instead, since my opinions are different, I was just trying to bash, and a beloved Sony fan.
I see how it works.
EnigmaNemesis
thejakeman: Is unoriginal
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
wow. it's like watching a child trying debate his way out of bedtime.
on the one hand, you want to say, aww, how cute! on the other, you want to rip the child's favorite doll's head off and scream at him to go to bed.
enigma, you need to learn how to debate. the way you are now, your arguments are all over the place and hardly make sense.
also, what is the benifit for nintendo to pay someone else to make games? they already pay a decent amount to make their own, why throw money away on risky 3rd party games? but what do i know? i only rent games anyway. the only game i own for my wii is DBZ: budokai tenkiachi 3, which is tiding me over till ssbb
thejakeman: Is unoriginal
BPM64: The Second Attack!
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
Since when did console manufacturers pay for other companies' adverts? I kinda always thought that was their own costs to cover...
i.e. Capcom buys its own ads, Konami buys its own ads, EA buys its own ads, Ubisoft buys its own ads, etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see why the first party (be it Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo) has to get involved with the third-party, unless maybe it's a joint-project (like Mario Kart: Arcade GP, done by both Nintendo and Namco).
BPM64: The Second Attack!
jive238
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
One thing i've noticed around this place(and alot of other places on the web) is everything said is a fact until someone screams its their opinion.
Does this mean you guys are done? Hey, I find these things very educational, and enlightening, I could observe you all night.
jive238
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@EnigmaNemesis:
I'm intrigued.
What, praytell, do you believe to be Nintendo's responsibility with third parties?
Make a great game or die?
Or is Nintendo supposed to fund advertising for third parties? I'm fairly sure MS and Sony don't do that.
Interesting you ask me knowing it will be in an opinionated manner. Since it is what " you believe", only to try and jump on me later. Nice game trying to prove I was making facts and then trying to call me out on the "opinions scapegoat". Too bad you didn't cover your bases earlier.
Isnt what I BELIEVE an opinion of my own feelings on the situation? You didnt ask me what was fact.
We dont know the facts about the third party dealings, at all. So all we have is feelings and opinions to go on with what evidence is out there and what we are seeing all three do.
EnigmaNemesis
EnigmaNemesis
Posted 7:38 PM 18/1/08
@Heavyfuel:
Where is the other one? I fail to see it!
EnigmaNemesis
hurtCORE
Posted 3:11 AM 18/1/08
i want to be hired as a writer so i can do a c-c-c-COMBO BREAKER
on this ones u.u
hurtCORE
SolFalling
Posted 12:38 AM 19/1/08
In the end, I'm not satisfied. In terms of how much I personally get out of my Wii, it is enough; I still have several games to get through, and indeed have trouble dedicating the time and money for the current level of first and third party support for the Wii. But I'm not satisfied.
Because I want Nintendo to crush the competition. I want the Wii doubling hardware sales of the Xbox 360, and the exclusive relationship of third party franchises with 'next-generation platforms' crumbling and broken. I want a virtual monopoly.
So I can only echo those critics who call on Nintendo to do more, to fulfill its potential. Nintendo has my support regardless of its performance, but now that the chance is here--so close, so within reach--I am only frustrated.
SolFalling
REDFIELD8
Posted 2:38 AM 19/1/08
I'm pleased TOO!
REDFIELD8
DarkLuigi
Posted 3:39 AM 19/1/08
Nintendo will dominate for a while, if they want to continue they better start making more games:)
DarkLuigi
crashlanding
Posted 12:31 PM 18/1/08
I wonder how many copies of Wii Play would have sold without the (ham sandwich) Wii remote packed in?
Just a thought, but props to Ninty anyway.
crashlanding
blacksamurai87
Posted 2:47 AM 19/1/08
Hi, Enigma. I have something to say to you.
Nintendo have the money and can do whatever they want. You do not. They make phenomenal games and appeal to a strong base of fans while expanding their boundaries to a larger demographic.
Third parties can do better. You have seen the potential with Johnny Lee. The companies see money in developing for Nintendo software.
Nintendo is a group of intelligent-minded individuals who are dedicated to innovation. They cannot control third parties, although I would love to see better non-Nintendo games out for the Wii.
The fact is, we should respect a company that has provided us with incontrovertibly high-quality video games.
Am I wrong? If so, please inform me. I'm not trying to defame your character or leave you pissed at me. Just give me a reason as to why you can't respect them.
blacksamurai87
RawSteelUT
Posted 8:51 PM 19/1/08
@blacksamurai87: Why the hell SHOULD third parties waste their time, when even the good games don't sell? If I were a 3rd party, I wouldn't do anything other than Jenga on the Wii anyway.
The Wii isn't turning people on to gaming. It's riding a novelty fad, and the lack of games for the system shows us this. Hell, save for Wii Sports, Nintendo hasn't used the remote in a new and exciting way. Wii Fit is another concern. They're releasing ANOTHER gimmick controller. Is that the only way Nintendo can make money now?
@blacksamurai87: "Nintendo is a group of intelligent-minded individuals who are dedicated to innovation. They cannot control third parties, although I would love to see better non-Nintendo games out for the Wii."
They CAN control 3rd parties. While no one can stop every sucky game, Sony and MS have strict certification processes. Nintendo has no quality control whatsoever, which is partly why Guiter Hero III shipped in MONO.
But yeah, Enigma and I are wasting our time. The Nintendo cultists have been chanting the same mantra since mid way through the N64 era: "3rd parties suck, Nintendo is the only innovator," even as Nintendo doesn't do shit other than regurgitate the same three games every year.
RawSteelUT
thevengeanceoftheufo
Posted 4:23 PM 16/2/08
I guess it's too bad all us Wii fans have to look forward to are IP rehashes of Mario and Zelda, and WiiSports/Fit 2.
thevengeanceoftheufo