Chef,

iz3d is actually the best gaming exhibit I saw at CES (in an otherwise lackluster show for gaming).

It BLOWS away the efforts from Zalman and the like, the driver for the lcd is independent of your video card driver, and it works with DX 8, 9, and 10 games with no modification.

It also gives you three depths of field: behind-the-stage, on-the-stage, and in front-of-the-stage. It reminded me of the new RealD technology that some theaters used to project the recent Beowulf film.

topaz420

It's like I can actually reach out and touch the vomit flying through the air.

chris_wing

@Marked: @Tadashi: @zxlink: @everybody else

The polarized monitor setup exists already in a unit called the iz3d. It uses passive polarized glasses(non-shutter) and has 2 layers of LCDs so one eye sees the image on the front layer, and the other eye sees the image on the back layer. I got to see one of these when it was on display at the Taipei International Animation Festival with UT2K4 and WoW being played on it, and it looked good, and seemed much better than when I used my oooooold shutter glasses from some time ago with a CRT monitor.

A downside is that it's $1K, but it -is- a 22" widescreen, and multiple people can see the 3d shenanigans by putting on a pair of glasses(they're passive, so no wires or power or anything). Another downside is that head-mounted 3D units with separate LCD displays for each eye often include position/motion tracking so you can look around - you just can't do that with a monitor.

Chef

Anyone remember that movie recently where a dude hooked up motion-sensing to some glasses, and had the screen's perspective move around as he moved? Now THAT's the sort of 3D people should be pursuing, especially s it means that spectators still get an opportunity to see what's going on on-screen.

Merus

what we need is actual 3d tvs, with 2 layers i mean that don't blur and look like this; please excuse my language, look like crap for resolutions. Imagine a gears of war or mgs4 with your character on the first layer with the foreground and the background on the next layer giving a sense of distance and being like, i guess u could say a hologram, but not at all technically like, gives u the same sensation tho :)
holograms now a days are still millions to buy...but they exists and they work really well... i'm not talking no image in mist, i'm talking real...just google it or gametrailers search it.
A 3 d tv like I described...and hope made sense to ppl would be cheaper then a hologram, mabe work better for games if u use it with aliens curve monitor idea also then the normal tvs we have now, we do excel with gmes now...but the next step is true 3d on the tvs, not a 3d space that the game exists and we interpret as being a 3d plane on our tvs....

Marked

Exactly. I've had the oppurtunity to witness these 3D TVs in North Carolina, without glasses by two particular companies. EON and 3DH. Both were pretty amazing, but required computers to be connected in order to run the software. One had filters that did the 3D, while the other worked on the hardware level, I'm told.

No glasses. About 5 seconds to focus, and it did as promised. No eye strain like shutter glasses. Using 3D Glasses still is...pathetic.

Aragashi

Why do you need the shutter glasses? Can't you just go crosseyed like for the old Magic Eye pictures?

Torgen thinks AAA has lost all meaning

This reminds me of the horror known as Virtual Boy.

Y3KMAN

@NitrousO:
Until volumetric displays are good enough, HMDs will have overtaken the consumer market. Maybe they will be used for briefings to destroy the Death Star.

@zxlink:
You mean low settings, since the GPU has to render two pictures.

@Scaramanga:
As ZXLink said, polarized glasses require polarized sources. You can use Anaglyph encoding or the classic shutter-glasses (as long they sync) on every display.

@Accordion:
Those only work for a single static scene. It can't be applied to video.

@general topic
The only way to get 3D without flickering, false colors and available technology is giving each eye a seperate picture.
Give me some HD-HMDs with full perspective, not just a SVGA rectangle floating in the air.

Tadashi

The only reason things that are actually 3d pop out to us is because what we see changes when we physically move ourselves.

Making a game with that moving perspective wii-mote thing that Johnny Lee demonstrated a few weeks back would be the better route.

der-Karl

@Accordion:

like these
[www.well.com]

Accordion

do those .gif images that give the impression of 3d not work in an animated context? seems like a compromise, though i have never seen one at a high speed.

@tsulami:

you should try MGS:PO for the ultimate pixel sponge porn

Accordion

Don't forget about Hologram Time Traveler from 1991. 3D Arcade fighting game.

COLDBLOODED BMC

@Klaymen: Polarized 3D is great... but to work "right", from my understanding, it essentially requires two displays to project onto the same surface. Minimizing that to a standard TV sized display could get costly (or simply wouldn't be done properly), and in the end most people aren't going to want to shell out for what amounts to a novelty. There's always the option of using a polarized mirror and a couple of LCD monitors, if you're really interested in a polarized 3D display.

zxlink

@DreamcastRIP:

That's right, Sony's already harnesses the power of 4D, Samsung needs to get with the times

Sparx88

#d isn't happening anytime soon. At least well enough to make it viable for a while. Why can't they do what disney does for their movies at disney world? Those look great.

Anyway off topic: I'm watching G4 (i know) and Mimio has this white board that is suspiciously like the Wii experiment that one guy did a while ago. Also MS has this touch table that was also done by that same guy.

I thought it was interesting that now we can pay for stuff we can get for (relatively) free.

Netnavi

Samsung? Schmamsung! Krazy Ken already beat you to 4D with the Power Of The Cell, suckers!

DreamcastRIP

It won't be fun till we won't need glasses. And when that arrives, I'd would want it to be life size and come in the Deck variety.*

*Star Trek reference....

Mixiboi

Whattttt is going on at CES? Shutter glasses have been around for a long time, I remember using them a loooon time ago at a local science museum. Polarized Light people - let's focus on it.

Klaymen

Actually any display can display 3D images using polarized glasses. Which this seems to be.

Sharp, Fujitsu, etc have shown far superior 3D displays that don't require "Captain Eo"-style 3D glasses.

Scaramanga

My college is offering a class where you program 3D interfaces on these TV's and use the Wiimote as input. I'm not taking it, but I might sit in on a few session just to check it out.

eelmonger

Does anyone have a link to an article that explains why they can't do 3D like they are doing for modern movies? IE, Nightmare Before Christmas and Beowulf? Those were both done exceptionally well and caused no eye strain.

KaneTaker

@MrBionic: Totally agree, that seriously was some amazing stuff.

Witzbold

The Wiimote head-tracking thing is indeed something that I hope is pursued in the future.. especially if we get TVs like the curved one from Samsung, giving us more of a field of view for the head-tracking.

That seems to be the way 3D gaming needs to go if people are actually serious about it instead of it being some huge gimmick.

MrBionic

my DLP samsung has a big ol 3D botton on the remote. never used it though

mctavish01

High definition DLP projector, eDimensional shutter glasses, and a GeForce 7900 or one of those converter boxes that eDimensional sells, and you've got some sexy 3D gaming. Throw in a Wii remote for headtracking, and some kind of light gun setup (possibly also using a wii remote and an IR LED attached to a gun of some kind), and you've got a 120" 3D high definition ghetto-fab VR screen, perfect for playing Crysis... on medium-low settings.

zxlink

I'm not going to be impressed with 3d until i can get it broadcast straight into my brain

Falconrith

Fact: Plasma tv's today employ far inferior technology than LCD tv's. LCD's are capable of higher resolutions and larger contrast ratios. Not to mention that you can actually move them without worrying about distorting the plasma if you accidentally lean or tilt the screen.

callahan09

I think I remember reading somewhere a couple years ago that nintendo though 3d gaming would be the norm by 2009. heh.

NeoAkira

@KIRBYTHESLAYER:
That's why you need to get lcd 3d vision. No eyeball burn in, but it makes it hard to distinguish between deep blacks.
Also, for some reason you're reply link is the only one that is broken on the page. I blame you.

altgod

"Underwhelm, Nauseate"

Oh, it's a Samsung alright.

NameYourCharacter

What about 3d world runner for the NES? that game was tight.

kerrminater

@SithNinja:

you beat me to the rad racer reference.

besides stating the obvious of thinking we were already in the 3D era,

isnt this so 80's with the white glasses we got in the cereal boxes to watch saturday morning cartoons with?

Dakobah

I would like to see similar tech at the adult film trade show.

tsulami

I would wanna hook up an NES to that bad boy and rock some Rad Racer in the 3D mode on the TVs 3D mode.... That would induce vomiting....

SithNinja

what they are doing here is similar to what sega did with the sega master system. the difference here is that old sega 3D glasses and games do not work on HDTVs (they display out of sync, trust me ive tried to get them to work). it seems they fixed the sync issue so that tech can be used on their TVs.

segamanxero

One of these days someone will perfect a volumetric display and I will be a very happy camper. Until then, here's to hoping they keep on it.

NitrousO

It will be nice when someone actually does come out with a practical way to game in actual 3D.

krunkjuice

@YASHICHI8BIT
we entered it around 1985 when nintendo and sega tried different types of 3D. I think the best was the 3D glasses that was optional with the sega master system.

segamanxero

Heh.
I just thought of something:

Eyeball Burn-In.

Imagine a giant floating green "K" in the upper left corner of your vision, forever.

Kirbytheslayer: Hasn't changed his name in a while.

@Achaemenid: We entered that realm in 95 when the Virtua Boy was released.

yashichi8bit

this would be nice, reminds me of the sega master system 3D glasses. It would be nice if they brought that back...

segamanxero

@Achaemenid: 3d? What the hell you talking bout? We're gaming in the 5th dimension nowadays!

comradestalin

Wait, I thought we entered 3D gaming two generations ago.

Achaemenid

@cybereality:

Just because something might not be a novelty in the future doesn't mean it's not a novelty now.

This stuff is way too expensive. $400 for those Vuzix glasses you mention? That's nuts, especially for something that is difficult to test out for yourself in advance.

Virtual Reality is the future too, but it's still a novelty.

skullivan

I can't believe people still insist 3d is a novelty. Its the future, and its way better than 2d. I mean, would you guys be happy if they only made black & white 2d games with mono audio? Its the 21st century, 2d monitors are so passe. If you think stereo 3d is just some gimmick go watch Beowolf in digital 3d and tell me that isn't sick.

If want to check out some 3d games on the PC you can buy a similar unit, 22" widescreen, for just under a grand here: [iz3d.com] That uses glasses, but they are just polarized lens (like sun glasses) and don't give you headaches like shutter glasses do (similar technology as beowolf). If you have a CRT monitor you can get 3d glasses for cheap (like $50-100): [www.edimensional.com] If you only have an LCD monitor than the refresh rate isn't high enough for 3d (which is why these new Samsung TVs *ARE* news because this hasn't been done before) but you could get something like the VR920 HMD [www.vuzix.com] which has stereo 3d graphics and a headtracker. All this stuff is available now.

With an nvidia graphics card you can run a good majority of *ALL* open gl or directx games. So pretty much any game you have played since like QuakeII will work with the glasses.

cybereality

I'm tired of seeing people trying to sell this crap.
Keep it in the development process until it actually works if you expect it to catch on.

Seph

Yeah, I think I'll just stick to playing from my couch on my LCD. :)

RawSteelUT

@NameYourCharacter: ...and ouch, dude. My Samsung dlp is the best HDTV I've ever seen... though it could always be bigger... always could be bigger...
My brother's more expensive Sony Bravia isn't as impressive, though he has a few more spots to plug equipment in.

Iocarios

@KaneTaker: Samsung's DLP's are supposed to be able to do it, with special equipment (which seems to be hard to find...). The digital theater in my town is DLP technology as well, in which I've seen those very movies.
With the Samsung method I believe the 3D imagery has to do with the cycles at which the images refresh images ( ?? Hz), and the glasses shut and open each eye rapidly in succession, creating superimposed images that appear 'joined' to be 3D. Too expensive to buy without trying, and probably the method used above - so maybe not worth trying.
In digital theaters two images are shown simultaneously, but each eye only sees one of the images, due to the cheap glasses blocking different spectrums of light (this is kind of a guess).

Let's just go to links before i confuse you.
Polarized style - [en.wikipedia.org]
the upcoming 3d movie craze -
[www.wired.com]

Iocarios

Can you be just 'whelmed'?

3-d games, like 3-d movies, are probably only going to be effective if they're made for it.

Kortir

3d makes me dizzy and get headaches. I think I'll pass on buying a monitor that makes me sick. I'll use that money instead to buy a crazy game cake for my birthday.

pfive81

@pfive81:
My condolence that reality gives you headaches ;)
Try a display that doesn't cut the refreshrate in half and has a moderate resolution. Have you ever been to an IMAX 3D theater?

@Chef:
This looks interesting, but some details are bad like that it has an extreme limited support. No Dual GPU setups, no 64-bit systems, no OpenGL (WTF?).
I'd surely like to try it out.

Tadashi

3D gaming on the Sega Master System was amazing ... until someone sat on my glasses and broke them :(
I remember myself playing Maze Hunter 3D. I loved that game.

ordigas

when the technology is better, ONLY THEN will 3d media flourish.

its not that we don't like 3d, its that we don't like the SHITTY side-effects that ruin the effect.

joelface