I would give it a second chance, If they fix it:P

Q80

@Witzbold: It would also be an insult to the band of the same name.

blackadvent

@7th: I played all but the last two missions. I never could reliably do a 180. Half the time, I'd end up dashing instead. This was all after the firmware update. I stopped playing where I did when I realized that I was having no fun and I was just doing it to prove I'd given it a chance.

It's not the motion controls in general. Folklore is an example of a great game that uses the motion controls. The way they are implemented in Lair is just broken.

Gort23

@GhaleonUnlimited: Hahaha that was pretty damn funny actually.

liquid_kore

Good luck getting Star Wars content in a game not featuring a Star Wars license.

GhaleonUnlimited

I never had a problem with lair's controls as is. I made it through every level of the game without too much difficulty (though the targeting towards the last few levels was a bit taxing.) Overall I thought it was a much better title than the media made it out to be, and I firmly believe that a large number of people on blogs like this one who bitch and moan about it have either A) never actually played it at all, B)played it prior to the firmware update that tightened Sixaxis accuracy last summer, or C)Only played through to the bridge battle and ever went any farther because the couldn't figure out how to go "rhinohead bowling" or couldn't find the council woman they were supposed to rescue.

yeah, there's screen tearing, but there's screen tearing in just about every next-gen game out there, including Mass Effect, heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Halo 3.....

7th

But Sony execs all called Lair "great" in this month's EGM, when asked if motion controls were having a rocky start on Playstation 3! Sony execs said it so it must be TRUE

GhaleonUnlimited

I own Lair. And I refuse to sell it!

I'm holding on to it for 3 reasons.

1) THIS VERY REASON, the game has analogue support built in! Since you can control it with the PSP and it's one nub. But an update adding more control options is a big reason I keep the game. (Personally I think the Dragons should control like helicopters and not X-Wings, but this brings me to my next point)

2) DLC, I hope they have something that looks like an X-Wing as downloadable content. It might have to transform to enable ground attacks, but that would make it even more awesome. Other silly DLC would make me play the game more.

3) THE THIRD FUCKING DRAGON! ARRR! Anyone who actually played the game knows there is a 3rd dragon in your stables that you cannot unlock. There are people who still play the game trying to unlock the damn thing. Scouring every inch of those huge maps for a secret... kinda crazy if you ask me but they also have platinum medals for every stage when I'm lucky to get a bronze.

The codes kinda piggyback onto the third dragon thing. There is a whole section for codes and only 3 completely useless codes?Two of which are videos? I get the feeling Lair was released very very ery unfinished.

I bought it for $60 a few days after launch FYI

z357x

oh my god, there isn't enough forgiveness in the world for this game. Why does this julian fellow keep beating the dead horse?

KenogaBrave

Perhaps IGN should have called it Lair 1.0 on the way?
Har har, just a joke. From what I hear, this would a really positive move on Factor 5's part, show that they're open to feedback.
Cool news if so.

Zeouterlimits

I'm gonna say it out loud (then hide in shame). I enjoyed Lair, and I didn't think the controls sucked "that" bad I've seen/played worse.

OK, there I said it.

-EDGE-

Drakan had some good dragon controls :) loved that game. Shame I lost it before I could finish it.
Hope they will fix these problems with Lair so when I get my PS3 I can fly dragons.
I just love dragons, no surprise there since I'm born on the year of the dragon.

DragonDragonDragon Fireball DragonDragonDragon

Mibu1

too little too late.

SAGA

Overall the game was okay, but the game gets more and more frustrating after about the halfway point. The last level made me want to physically assault Julian Eggbrecht.

PSN ID: Kadaj24

@Witzbold: Very true. It was interesting to see what became of the all of the characters, particularly since the Drakengard games don't exactly have the happiest of storylines.

@TheCleaningGuy is Maximum Risky:I would, if I were you. I guess I never really had a problem with the issues you have with the game, but I thought that it was worth it in the end. I'd say stick with it and see if it grows on you.

Lezard

I'd buy it if they fixed the controls.

cheeses

@bangbangblah: it probably did, but those copies probably got resold just a quickly... every time I go into EB they have about 25 copies of it on the shelf... even if it doesn't make greatest hits, it'll sure make the bargain bin

kathartik

@Gort23:

Agreed. The 'dash' was easy but a 180 was f'in maddening at times. And yes, those in-game cutscenes were SOOO annoying.

I always wondered how they communicated to each other while they were flying 100 feet away from each other on dragons but that's insignificant.

PSN ID: Kadaj24

@hagridore:

Well fixing the controls would fix the gameplay because the gameplay was not bad, just infuriating when trying to fly that damn dragon.

Still, the controls were not as bad as most people say they were, you have to be gentle with the controller, you're flying a dragon not a F-16.

I personally liked this game, marginally, but yes it's one of the most infuriating games I've ever played. Especially at the end of the game, it's just ridiculous.

I think the controls may not even be it's biggest problem, targeting was horrible, and the fact that out of an army of 1000, they only want to attack you and no one else in you're group.

PSN ID: Kadaj24

The stupid in game cutscenes where far worse of a problem than the controls. Nothing like being jerked out of the game to see a five second explosion and then dumped back in to totally screw up your immersion and destroy any ability to figure out where you were.

The only issue I had with the controls were the 180, which was impossible to do reliably. Unfortunately, much of the rest of the game was annoying. It could have been a good game, but its problems were far beyond the controls.

Gort23

I had no idea this sold enough to make greatest hits status.

bangbangblah

They can patch the controls. They can't patch the gameplay.

hagridore

@Lezard: Drakengard 2. I have it, I want to like it, but I just can't. The controls, the voice-acting... Should I keep playing?
@Topic: If they got the controls to work I would buy Lair in about a second.

TheCleaningGuy is Maximum Risky

LAIR is dead. Get over it. Now begin work on a new Rogue Squadron. GOD HELP YOU, FACTOR 5! MAKE IT!

Nex Antonius

will everyone re-review they game if they do this? =) i'd love to see that.

magically_delicious

Patching in analog controls with rumble is a NO BRAINER, Factor 5. The story and levels are so cool.

I'll also take co-op in the sequel and meaningful relationships with your allies a la Star Fox.

Kai_

@Lezard: At least it gave proper closure though. Its funny the first one was so screwed up storywise it made it into the papers I think or something like that if I remember correctly.

Witzbold

@Witzbold: I'm keeeeeding. I'm seriously considering using some birthday money to buy a Sega Saturn and a Sega CD off of eBay. Now if only I could find my SNES and Atari. I'm going to have to build some kind of shelving for all my game systems to be hooked up to my tv along with my antenna and my dvd player and such. The wires are becoming quite a mess. I might even eventually buy another NES because we had given my grandmother the old NES, leaving me with the top loading design NES and I don't know what she did with my old NES. I preferred that one, especially when stacking of things is necessary.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

I hope they don't remove the current scheme completely. I haven't played it myself, but I'd be curious about the original controls after running through the game with analog stick controls.

As for the game being unpolished, that would mar my opinion of it. They might as well polish it up before re-releasing it... And they're gonna need one hell of an impressive/convincing marketing plan to get people to give it another shot.

StevenRafael

@Witzbold: The Drakengard games are awesome. Though I was a bit disappointed that the plot of Drakengard 2 wasn't as insane as that in the first game.

Lezard

I really have to wonder why they wouldn't just fix the damn controls to include a standard, analog stick-using option. I'd be willing to bet they'd sell a lot of copies were they to fix it.

Strangelove

I just want full analog support... but rumble would be great as well.

Loved the game, but found the controls too frustrating to pick it up again, and try and get the 14 gold necessary for a perfect game. I finished the game, but with mostly bronze.

I will buy this game, new, if they do this. They made a good game.

Tenth

Wow. How long has this game been out? I think the damage has already been done, Factor 5.

dowingba

I also echo the sentiments that I'd buy it with analog and rumble support.

rezak

I wanted to stomp folks with my dragon in the game, but until I heard what the folks had to say about it here, plus I hate "tagged on" motion controls I just couldnt buy the game.

I did love me some Dragon Dragoon 1 +2 on the PS2 though!

Witzbold

With stick support and some minor tweaks, Lair would actually be a good game.
No. Seriously. It Would.

half-beast

Yeah there is no denying this game looked impressive....I had seen some shots that sure some things in the distance or background didn't look AS good....but that tends to happen when the rest of the game looks so good, the imperfections stand out.

iToke

@Luke Plunkett: So what you're saying is if they haven't they should? But where would they find a rich company foolish enough to buy it?

@jayntampa: He doesn't seem to understand that his game is mediocre but I can't say I blame him. I read this article about some guy who works on SNL filming a full lenth movie. He said something like "I can't say anything bad about films now that I know how much work it takes. It takes just as much effort to make a bad film as it does to make a good one".

Think about the developemnt hours that were likely spent on Lair. It might suck but he likely feels that the team put a lot of effort into it. It just turns out they were better with X-wings then dragons.

Aflack: Likes slushies

wtf? like 6 months later? arrogant bastards

JackTretton

gime rumble and analog, and i'll buy your game already.

zanzibarlegend

@ceilingFANBOY: deleted the stuff after his name: You obviously have NO tastes in games.

Witzbold

@Grave: OUCH! I'm never going to take advice from you again.

ceilingFANBOY: deleted the stuff after his name

@Kirbytheslayer: tired: Lair did have some amazing graphics, but it was very unpolished. Parts of the game looked really bad and it stood out cause much of the game looked so good. The bad parts really stick out big time.

Good example are the real time cut scenes which just use the ingame people models which look like crap cause they are meant to be seen while flying, and not close up. So you got two blotches which are people talking with no animation and blurry texture floors and valley for storyline.... we got nice cg and the in game graphics look sharp in air, then you get crap like that? Other stuff like how the water looked great till you got to an edge and would see the horrible water smashing and such from 2 gens ago.

The game would look amazing at times, lot of it sticks in my head as some of the coolest scenes in a game in a while, but it was very much unpolished.

Kyle81

@ceilingFANBOY: deleted the stuff after his name: Bite your tongue.

Grave

@Witzbold: Isn't putting a game on the Sega Saturn an insult in itself?

ceilingFANBOY: deleted the stuff after his name

@Witzbold: If any game needs a re-release here in the states, it's Dragonforce ... followed in short order by Panzer Dragoon Saga :D

jayntampa

@Marasai: Hmmm...Bad graphics? I think you're just making stuff up now. If there's one thing Lair didn't have, it was bad graphics.
It's still one of the best looking games I've ever seen.

Kirbytheslayer: tired

Lair would have been decent, but it had lot of bad design choices. Really the controls were probably the least of the problems of the game. Everyone blamed the controls but seriously, the game controlled fine minus a couple hiccups in some of the moves, it's the rest of the game that just looked rushed, incomplete, or was just done bad.

Kyle81

I have heard Lair was actually pretty good....some people were just too quick to dismiss. I know I might pick it up if I ever found it used for 20 bones just to check it out...I mean, no denying the graphics look fucking amazing...it's just the gameplay that scares the hell outta me...I have heard it was hella frustrating but then I heard it was bearable if you gave it a chance....never knew what to believe with this game. and I still cannot believe you HAD to play with the controls as is....ridiculous IMO and I really wanted to like this game....

iToke

I just can't get past the fact that the guy can't accept they made a poor design choice and instead wants to blame it on the gamer. When over half the reviews were below 50%, you've got a problem with your game ... period.

jayntampa

@ceilingFANBOY: deleted the stuff after his name: If they renamed it Dragonforce it would be an insult to one of the best fantasy strategy games on the sega saturn.

Witzbold

They could just rename the game Dragonforce and say that it isn't the controls, it's just that the game is ridiculously fucking difficult, and just ride on the coattails of the Guitar Hero name recognition to carry this game through the fire and flames.

ceilingFANBOY: deleted the stuff after his name

@Marasai: Let's hope the rumors they're working on Kid Icarus are bullshit then. Unless you want to use a nunchuck and wiimote to mimic firing arrows or flapping wings.

Zerozaki Ishiki

lol, besides hardcore gamers, who the hell else is going to buy Lair? Most people that cared about this game were either hardcore PS3 fans or fans of the Rogue Squadron games.

Give people the option to play with sticks and maybe people will buy it. Hell, while you're at it, toss a HUD in the patch too. And a whole bunch of other stuff to make the game less broken.

It's so tiresome when developers are like "lol, this'll do for everyone!". Options are best.

Demaar

wow. tilt controls removed, Now fix the bad AI, short story, bad graphics, massive glitches, terrible button based controls and dated gameplay and they might have a game wortha B+ or so. Lair's problems weren't limited to the controls. they sucked, but lairs main problems were F5's utter incompetance as a developper.

I own a wii, I know all about bad motion controls. Lair would have been bad even without them.

Marasai

I reckon the intention would be to use the budget range (platinum, is it?) release of Lair as a vehicle for bringing the updated tweaked controls into the marketplace alongside a simultaneous PSN update for those who already have the game.

Brokenlynx

I rented Lair and thought it was ok. Nothing more, nothing less.

If they fixed the control issues (which weren't that bad IMO), cleaned up the the graphical glitches (mostly tearing) and fixed the HUD (put in a compass) I'd consider buying it.

Doshu

Lair for Sega CD and 3DO CONFIRMED!

DemonBlood

@Gadgetron: to be fair, im sure their financial backers dont want it forgotten.

TheIrishNinja

It would be nice if this is true, but there's a part of me that can still hear Julian Eggsalad sitting in a dark corner and muttering to himself.

"What are they all talking about? The controls are perfect. PERFECT. We even tried to help out with the reviewer's guides, but they just mocked us even more. Why, dammit why can't they see the genius of it all!"

Lezard

I'd be happy with some analog controls. I'm one of the few that enjoyed Lair, but some things became frustrating with the motion controls. Especially the missions where you were pretty much timed and you had to lock onto something specific and you'd end up locking onto one of the other 100 things going on on-screen, so I'd like a fix for that, too.

BloodStainedVendetta

I might go ahead and buy it if they revamp the controls to allow using the analog sticks. I can probably deal with whatever other graphical glitches are present.

Yakuzaice

My definition of a patch is that it corrects tiny bugs into games or add something like maps, costumes ... Now he's talkin about a patch that changes a bad gameplay into a good one ?! Somethings is clearly not right !

Shteve

Lair and I have a love and hate relationship. I'll actually buy it if it goes down budget price.

goldwings

I got the game a few weeks ago, and I honestly didn't understand what the fuss was about. Dragon always did what it was suppose to, if anything it seemed a bit rushed... game a good used purchased :)

endlow

well i hope they do. making it only motion control was a bitch move on there part

mossberg

I would look into to getting if they fixed the controls and graphical problems

ExtremeOne316

The game at this point is a punch-line, nothing now will help.

Muisee

Lair was a cool idea, but from what I understand, the controls weren't the only things wrong with the game.
I say just let the game die its death, finish up the Wii Project (which I'm actually very excited about- it's supposed to be almost PS3-like 0_o), and get cracking on a Lair II.

Zerbrechen

@Luke Plunkett: hahahahaha

Witzbold

@Aflack: Likes slushies: Id say its worth about as much as a cup full of shit right now

Luke Plunkett

They better have a downloadable update instead of just hosing everyone who actually BOUGHT it.

Ecks

Doesn't Sony own the Lair IP or did they drop it like a rock?

Aflack: Likes slushies

I'd buy it if they added Stick and Rumble support.

Codexx

Indeed dont mean to rain on his parade but its a little late though. Even more so now thats its gotten bashed so much over the interbuts. :x

Witzbold

oh god just let lair die. we want to forget about it, i am sure factor 5 wants to forget about it. no get cracking on another rogue squadron game and skip the wii controls

Gadgetron

@stranger: Preposterous!

Luke Plunkett

A bit late, aren't we?

romBox

Here's a tweak for you.

DUAL ANALOGUE

NameYourCharacter

Or maybe he's alluding to a 360 version?

Wonder-nerd powers ACTIVATE:

stranger