While we are at it: The makers of Cloverfield and I AM Legend should sue each other too. It's New York, a big catastrophy that whipes out the whole city and oh, both movies came out at the same time! If that's not ripped off then I don't know what is.

Destrocus

What about 'zombies ate my neighbors', that had a mall full of zombies.

/and a castle with a vampire
/and a football field with space aliens

lordargent

hey hey hey now!! George Romero from what I've heard him say and read does not even own Dawn of the dead anymore so lets not bring him into this he's far from a money grabber if he was he would have sued the likes of lucio fulci meany times over for zombi 2 and countless other films, but you cant escape the fact that dead rising was blatently influenced by the Romero film.

repoman123

Deadrising was the reason why I bought my 360 in the first place, so please come out with DR2!

But on the topic.. it says right on the box, nothing to do with dawn of the dead. I can't believe this has been brought up 30 years after the game has been out

Teekan

Also check out White Zombie from 1932 (by the same director). I haven't seen this one but Rob Zombie seems to have named his band after it so it must be good.

dowingba

Whoops, here we go: Revolt of the Zombies! From 1936. It's tagline is even: "Zombies--- Not dead, not alive!"

The movie sucks, but that's not the point.

dowingba

@SynKade: I can't remember what it was called, but it definitely had the word "Zombie" in the title and featured walking dead people, and it was made in the 1930's.

Trust me, Romero didn't invent Zombies.

dowingba

If MKR were serious about a suit, they would have sued within the last couple years rather than Capcom filing for a declaratory judgment now. I get the feeling that Capcom's filing is just to get MKR to stop bugging them (especially after MKR started copying Microsoft and Best Buy on their letters).

Guero

@JohnnytheFuture: Try Zombie Panic : HL2 Mod, which does exactly that.

[www.zombiepanic.org]

Trifurcifer

@DMeisterJ: Agreed. Teaming up to with your friends to fight zombies would be awesome.

And here's the twist, if you get bit, you turn into a zombie and now must eat your friend's brains! Why is this idea not in a game already???

JohnnytheFuture

There's zombies
They are in a mall
/end similarities

*sigh* money, the root of all evil.

Athest

Are they going to go after Konami for Zombies Ate My Neighbors next? (Zombies in suburbia. There is probably even a mall level in the game).

CyberSkull

this is very stupid. come on! they put a bloody note on the cover!

NocturnOwl357

@Luke Plunkett:
Belated, but your comment about "George lucas copyrighting wars in space" made me almost choke on my lunch. In a good, laughing sort of way.

Tsuzu

@gamadaya: Most of the endings to DR did involve an escape using a helicopter. The 'true' ending did not, however.

blackadvent

@Knukleur: Someone already kinda did that. It's called 'Zombie Prom'.

blackadvent

@matteblender: They already made a game on the last Romero movie. It sucked balls.

blackadvent

If Disney smells money in zombie-related media, I expect them to pull some old Mickey Mouse cartoon out of a vault that proves THEY invented zombies. Then they'll make a musical about a misunderstood teen zombie at a mall, but everything turns out okay in the end because she learns she doesn't have to be the most popular person alive or undead to be true to her heart and be loved by those she loves...sniff...

Knukleur

Someone made a good point, which is that Romero's first Zombie movie, Night of the Living Dead, is public domain now. That means that anyone can copy it to their heart's content with no legal repercussions. You can copy its plot, its setting, its dialog. Heck you can just copy the whole thing. However, Dawn of the Dead is not public domain. This is why some Romero rip-offs are not actionable, but others are.

stop2

this is utterly ridiculous. as many others have already asked, will they be going after every other zombie movie/game??

kw4k

They should be happy Capcom made this game. I always loved Zombie movies but never owned any. During my pre- Dead Rising hype I bought every "Dead" movie ever made including the original Black and White AND!!! the color version, plus I then bought them again on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.

The studio made a nice chunk of change from me alone and they owe it all to the game.

parad0x360

This feels pretty old'd.
I mean, it's not like it's a new game, it's been out for quite some time now.

JohnnyH87

MASSIVE SPOILERS for Dawn of the Dead and Dead Rising:

Dawn of the Dead in less then 200 words (crappy summary I know):
A plague as spread around the whole world that brings dead people back to life as zombies, including people who have been long dead. Some folks (4) in a news station escape the zombies via a helicopter and end up landing it at a local mall. They clean it out and lock it up, but one of them dies in the process. They spend a few months partying in the mall, but having everything you want and nothing but time gets old. Turns out the rest of the world has gone to pieces and they are completely isolated. Time passes and a band of bikers breaks into the mall, letting in all the zombies that have been trapped outside. One of the 3 folks who has been hanging out in the mall all this time decides to fight the bikers and gets bitten as well. The 2 remaining survivors kill their reanimated friend, get into the helicopter and take off into the sunset.

Similarities between DotD and DR:
People arrive via helicopter.
People take off via helicopter.
Zombies in a mall.
Zombies plague can be spread to the living via bites.
The fact that people can't cooperate plays a large part in spreading the plague.
Both contain social commentary.

Differences:
Government still exists and plays a role in trying to contain the zombies.
DR (currently) only has isolated zombie infections.
The mall is infested throughout the story.*
Any human that dies in DotD will reanimate unless they have brain trauma. But in DR there are only 2 ways to get infected (Wasp & Zombie bite).
DR zombies have a very clear cause, and are not technically people who have died and come back.
DR has a very large number of survivors.
DR zombies are not restricted to humans (Cattle and Poodles can be infected).
The social commentary both contain is different.

So the similarities isn't just "Zombies in the Mall", but it beats me if they are similar enough to actually get compensation for it. Didn't one of the RE games also have a "This isn't George A. Romero's work" disclaimer as well?

*Always bugged me about Dead Rising: The gates on both sides of the entrance plaza were closed leading into the mall, both are opened by Brad as the game moves along. How did the zombies get past those gates?

NateN

The biggest similarities the two share is they both have zombies and they're both in a mall. That's about it.

New Line is just being greedy.

OMGitsDarkMatter

Dawn of the Dead had people trapped in a mall with zombies around. That's it. End of plot.

Dead Rising has people trapped in a mall surrounded by zombies. Zombies that were intentionally created as part of a terrorist strike. In addition to taking out the terrorist leader there are a number of psychopaths to deal with, each having their own unique storyline. On top of that, once the zombie threat has been dealt with for a few days the military comes in and you need to contend with that threat AND get to the outside world to warn them that there are children spread around the country who will spread this plague all over.

So similarities - zombies have people trapped in a mall.

Hmmm, I wonder what other things are similar.

Star Trek has military people in a starship. Battlestar Galactica has military people in a starship too!! OMGWTFBBQ! SUE THE BASTARDS!!

PlaidNinja

Wasn't Dawn of the Dead basically over by the time the zombies actually got into the mall?

Most of the movie was about zombies outside of a mall.

Caowyth

@TinyLightning:
It's not Romero who was presurring Capcom, it was MKR who bought the rights to his "Dead" films.

XerxenK

@stop2:
You're right poor choice of words on my part. They sent a nasty letter to capcom. Who is in turn forcing the issue to a head in order to clear the way for the sequel/ports of the original.

XerxenK

Does anybody want to help me try and copyright air? It would be brilliant! Then whenever someone in a movie or on television uses air, we can sue them for infringement on intellectual property.

Tizlor

@stop2: Either way, that judge is going to have a great time over the next few weeks, playing DR and watching Dawn of the Dead to pick out similarities.

RawSteelUT

"Even if MKR wins, Romero won't see a dime of the settlement. He's not suing anyone. MKR and New Line, who bought the rights to his films, are suing Capcom."

@XerxenK:
Didn't anybody read the article? MKR and New Line have not sued. It's Capcom that brought this case to court. In doing so, the're probably forcing MKR into action, but so far MKR have done nothin. It's all Capcom.

stop2

Why did it take this long for the lawsuit to come about? I love "Dead Rising", zombie movies, all of it.. but the movie guys are way-late on the "giving a shit-meter" since this game was released a lifetime ago.

samuraisul

Romero's old, his last movie wasn't that great, and he can't understand why kids these days want to play the gosh dern video games.

TinyLightning

I'm glad I have my copy. As in just in case Romero and his legal team have the game pulled from shelves.

Maybe I should get a second copy (sealed) to have as a collector's item???

I know it says that it has nothing to do with Romero or Dawn of the Dead. Maybe it should have said that it has nothing to do with them, but inspired by events that transpired in his movie.

One_Crazy_Idiot

@DaiMacculate: Also "Night of the Living Dead" is public domain which is why there are tons and tons and tons of shitty transfers floating around.

C'mon, there really isn't anything to argue about. Dead Rising is clearly and blatantly a lift of Dawn of the Dead. Nothing wrong with that, Capcom just needs to pay up and all will be forgotten.

crazyscreenwriter

@stop2: Bullshit...what about Dead Alive. Or Evil Dead. Nobody went after them.

fulgore66

i say screw newline,they ruined the genre with there super fast super agile super strong 'zombies', none of those things are possible for a zombie to be, super fast? the're decomposing bodies for Chris's sake! therefore....

Balmut

Having not read this massive comment thread, I'll still give my opinion.

Of course Capcom saw Dawn of the Dead and thought, "This would make an awesome game." They saw Night of the Living Dead and thought the same thing and we wound up with Resident Evil. In both circumstances, the world was a better place, so I think Romero and New Line should stick to making fun zombie movies and Capcom can take their premises and make fun zombie games. We all win.

wallapuctus

At least this could explain why we've heard nothing on a Dead Rising 2 just yet. Maybe.

Hurry up and sort it out! I need my DR2!!

akwinters

Even if MKR wins, Romero won't see a dime of the settlement. He's not suing anyone. MKR and New Line, who bought the rights to his films, are suing Capcom. I got to listen to him speak at Dragon*Con two years ago and he's thrilled that people are inspired to create things(Comics, novels, movies, video games, etc) by his work. I've been a zombie nut for years, and love George's work, but I have to agree that there's no case here and I'm glad Capcom is forcing the issue to a head now. Hopefully to clear the way for a PS3 port of DR and the release of DR2. Oh and side note, the use of "Dead" in the title of a zombie film/game is non-copyrightable and non-infringing which is why Romero switched his films from "of the Living Dead" to "of the Dead" as he lost the rights to use "Living Dead" to John Russo the co-writer of the original Night of the Living Dead.

XerxenK

Oh to be fair too there were some "Zombie" comics that predate Night of the Living Dead and such, but IIRC most of it is either public domain now or the copyright holders are deceased.

DaiMacculate

I'm going to have to chime in and semi-agree/backup Gamadaya here (not that he needs it, have you seen his Avatar?!?! Swedish Murder Machine.), he has a point in the sense that Romero may have a legal IP case, whether or not Dead Rising tips over the edge from homage/parody into actually ripping Dawn of the Dead (we are talking about the original DoTD right, not the remake? I haven't seen the remake) is a bit of a close call. I wouldn't mind at all if Capcom did end up just kicking some cash Romero's way in the end, settling out of court basically, because like Stan Lee the man is responsible for so many great fictional moments that we all kind of owe him, collectively, for the works he has inspired. There can be no argument that without Romero's films Dead Rising would most certainly not exist at all, at least not in its current form. That may or may not translate to a legal argument, but its compelling enough for Capcom to spare us all the trouble, IMO.

DaiMacculate

@alechollandd: Actually, I got the game because I like killing zombies. I've never seen Dawn of the Dead, all I know is it has zombies, and killing which....remarkably is similar to many other games involving zombies.

However I know the plot of the movie after hearing about this and well, aside from a Shopping Mall, Zombies, Survivors....you pretty much have that as the only similar basis for any lawsuit. At best, it's original that may have taken some ideas to get started. At worst they used these ideas blatantly to make a great game.

Yet there's more than enough differences aside from the simple idea of 'Zombies + Shopping Mall = Awesome' to make it more of a 'Zuh?' response as opposed to 'Zomg they're ripping off Dawn of the Dead!'

Tystarr

They hosed Romero plain and simple. Romero has been hosed by the
Hollywood. Also, If you say you did not buy this game because it was like "playing Dawn of the Dead" Then I look you in the eye and call you LIAR.
I hope MKR wins. So there.

alechollandd

Why are they complaining to Best Buy? If you're going to target them surely you need to target every other retailer too.

Kafeen

Mikazukinoyaiba claimed: "Romero wasn't exactly a Leonardo when he thought up the idea, it wasn't something ahead of the time in anyway."

Well, nobody except Leonardo is a Leonardo, but... you haven't actually seen the original movie, have you? It's a biting social critique. Probably one of the most intelligent movies of its era. Yes, dude, he very much was ahead of his time.

L_K_M

Nobuyuki claimed: "nothing about it seems particularly similar to Dawn of the Dead other than the obvious fact that both have zombies."

Have you actually seen Dawn of the Dead? It's about a bunch of people trapped in a shopping mall surrounded by zombies. Wait, that sounds familiar... because it's exactly the same as Dead Rising! The similarities are so obvious that I can't see how anyone could claim otherwise without hurting his brain trying to twist facts to match the claim.

Now, having said that, do I think Capcom did anything wrong? Hell no. They did not use any copyrighted material or any trademarks from New Line Cinema. At worst, the game should be considered an hommage to the movie(s). Ideas should be free; just because Romero had the zombies-in-mall idea doesn't mean nobody else should be allowed to have the same idea, or even copy the idea.

Also, here's the scary thing: When I read the article, I first read "John Romero" instead of "George". AAAAH! THE HORROR!

L_K_M

Think it depends on how much similarities there are, in regard to story/plot and premise to the movie, which may cause people to think Dead Rising is Dawn Of The Dead the game.

But Newline/Romero CAN'T copyright Zombies in Mall Survivor Horror.

As much as Ian Fleming could copyright, English Secret Agent working for MI6.

As long as the story and premise sufficiently differs from the Movie(s), then capcom has no issues, plus the disclaimer on the cover should be sufficient enough to protect Capcom as well, it basically indicates the Game ISN'T based on the movie(s), i.e. the storyline and plot is totally unrelated even though the setting for the game is Zombies in a Shopping Mall.

charsuipau

The game is set in a mall and has zombies, the movie is set in a mall and has zombies. That's where the similarities end.

If you could file lawsuits or whatever over similarities that general, there'd be a hell of a lot of people in trouble in Hollywood.

Demaar

Soon someone will try and have the copyright to war movies...

Azurite

@EnigmaNemesis: Either that or Capcom was just blatant with its ripoff with DR. Notice no one suing over the Resident Evil games.

RawSteelUT

@-EDGE-: The thing with Magnavox was probably more a patent issue than one of copyright, which is a whole different can of mutated worms than this.

And yeah, I can see where someone might draw a familiarity to Dawn of the Dead. Capcom might have wanted to ask the devs to maybe do something different with the mall, like maybe have it be a port-side shopping center so people could be boatlifted instead of carried off by helicopter.

RawSteelUT

This game has been out now for some time and there were issues then. However its only now that they do something? these MKV guys need to wake up a little.

dsvella

so newline is being sued by peter jackson and Tolkien's kids for not receiving royalties due on LOTR, and now Newline is suing Capcom for making a video game about a camera man stuck in a mall with flesh eating zombies...

riiiiiight. good luck with that.

magically_delicious

I actually thought the creator was a big fan of Romero's film. Did anyone think that maybe he just wanted to make a videogame homage to it?

But I suppose we're all far to cynical to believe something like that!

StormTec

This is ridiculous! The real question for me is have New Line lost any revenue over DR. I say no they haven't. If anything they sold a few more copies of the DVD and cemented their franchise as definitive.

Spoffoth

George Romero is the fucking king. Capcom can suck a nut. Dead Rising is a COMPLETE rip-off of Dawn and they should pay!

bysty

@Sicrowell: I think thats what it really about

Rockwallaby

@ShaggE: wow, you dragged that one from out your arse, nice find (I figured there would already be one hence the "with the profile")

Rockwallaby

Well it's a good thing I'm getting this game again soon.

rebelphoenix

@Bishmon: If you've seen DOTD and played DR, you'll know most if not all of the relevant facts. Your lawyer pal and gamadaya's Mom lawyer are both right*, but there's more to it than just the similarities or differences.

The material over which a person is seeking to assert copyright must be protectable. As Plunkett said much earlier, the idea of zombies in a mall is not copyright protectable. In the case of copyright it is the work (i.e. the movie) that is protected and not the ideas that are used in the work.

In the case of DOTD, the movie as a whole is copyright protected (i.e. you can't copy it), as is the unique combination of its features - plot, characters and setting - so you couldn't re-enact or animate it and get away with it.

Obviously DR is not a copy of DOTD so any copyright infringement would depend on the copying of the unique combination of its features.

I'm very familiar with both DOTDs and with DR (I've done my 7 day survivor!) and I see little resemblance between the story and characters of DR and those of DOTD. There's obvious inspiration, but that doesn't constitute copyright infringement. MKR/New Line would have worked up a list of similarities but I can't imagine Capcom is too concerned.

*I'm also a lawyer, although I don't currently practise in IP law. Note that if we were being paid, we would be obliged to disagree.

Infinitum

They're just mad they didn't think of turning it into a game first.

Sicrowell

Reading some of the comments in this thread are hilarious and just show how fucked up this all can be these days.

Of course Capcom was influenced by Dawn of the Dead (Released 30 years ago!) to the extent of "zombies in shopping mall". But it's just a god damn vague premise - its implementation is the only thing that should be protectable.

Look how we all reduced it to a 4 word concept! If you ask legal advice on this issue of course you may hear that they have a case against Capcom but honestly why do you think they would say that lol.

The Judge should actually charge New Line for wasting everyones time on this. But in this world of litigation who knows what will happen - if Capcom has to pay up it doesn't mean its actually morally right they do.

I guess we will get people going after horror films set in houses next!

Frank Herbert got it spot on:

"It isn't the ideas that make the story, it's what you do with them. Ideas are a dime a dozen. Development of ideas--that's where the diamonds are."

TurtleSoup

Seriously, folks, remember, it's Capcom suing New Line, in reaction to a nasty letter that New Line sent.

Slatz_Grobnik

The episode of South Park I'm watching right now portrays homeless akin to zombies and remaining townsfolk are huddled atop a public building's roof. I smell copyright or trademark infringement....

Also, WoW's portrayal of elves seems far too similar to that of D&D's seems to similar to LotR's seems too similar to Nibelungen's portrayal seems to similar to other Norse and Germanic mythology...

Arttemis

wait wasent Dead Rising released over a year ago?

lifeinthefridge

What the hell is a disclaimer for if Capcom has to deal with this shit? That said, watching Dawn of the Dead will always be more entertaining than watching somebody play Dead Rising. As I recall, most of the dialogue is helpless people yelling "Frank!" over and over until they get killed.

supercrap

Ugh, this is fucked up. New Line is REALLY reaching here ...

dead_red_eyes

Richard Matheson's estate should have sued George A. Romero. Watch The Last Man on Earth, and then watch the Night of the Living Dead.

Sparkamus

I emailed a copyright lawyer that I know, and he said, with the caveat of not specifically knowing all the facts, that Capcom is probably in the right on this one since the two works execute the 'zombies in a mall' idea so differently.

I mentioned how much gray area copyright laws must navigate, and he joked that all that gray area is what keeps him employed.

Bishmon

@gamadaya:

If it's opposition is so weak it has to use that, Capcom's already off the hook. Not that we need a hypothetical to conclude that anyway.

SuperMaxZero

@kidnicky: Not ENOUGH like it to legally be liable. Hence Aquaman and Sub-Mariner or Superman and Supreme are similar but not identical enough to count as infringement. The makers of Saving Private Ryan can't sue Call of Duty or any other game even though most of them copy the scene from the Juno beach landing in a dramatically similar way to how it was portrayed in the movie (which the director probably stole from some John Wayne/John Ford movie.) I realize that the Juno landing happened and zombie attacks (supposedly) have not, but it's just copyright law we're talking about. Certainly nobody copyrighted the concept of zombies in and of themselves way back when, (except maybe Umbrella Corp..) so it's too late, zombies, mummies, werewolves, witches and vampires are pretty hard to defend in copyright court.

GOLD5

@SuperMaxZero:
Oh my mistake. Now Capcom is off the hook.

@Mikaze:
Yeah, I was actually thinking of other ways to use zombies and malls after I said that. I guess there are some other ways, but that's beside the point. Capcom used it a lot like Romero.

gamadaya

Dead rising came out a little bit ago....

Saith17

Well, there is only one other media about running away from zombies in a mall. Capcom should just make some kind of deal with New Line and get it over with. Obviously they knew something was up by saying Dead Rising and Dawn of the Dead weren't affiliated. They took a gamble and it got them in trouble. I love Capcom and New Line by the way.

Sintariot

@gamadaya: "It's tough to use "Zombies in a mall" in more than one way.

Unless you have a decent amount of imagination and creativity. That basic seed can spawn countless ideas with little real resemblance, from a light-hearted bloodless satire about the Christmas shopping season to a disturbing thriller about a youth's fantasies about living out the DotD scenario at his local mall.

And that's just half-assing it.

Mikaze

@Chintz: That's funny, because nobody is suing anybody. Read the post again.

Luke Plunkett

So, how does Dead Rising impact on MKR?
As I see it, if anything it encourages people to enjoy the zombie genre - you're more likely to go & buy Night, Day or Dawn after playing.

Riquez

now if valve could sue EA on that BattleField Bullshit
ITS TF2 WITH DESTRUCTIBLE ENVIROMENTS!!!
yeah, no

Yahtzee

@Zookey:

I don't see why you'd say that, since I don't see watching the game do anything but make it less similar as opposed to reading a 4 word synopsis (zombies in a...). Actually seeing it should tell you the characters, plot, tone, action, even the point of the game, and virtually everything else is different. The only similar thing is the setting and arguably the theme, a couple small homages like with the pie.

And if was called "Rising of the Dead", I'd definitely concede the name point, but the word "Dead" in a zombie title doesn't strike me as significant.

SuperMaxZero

@Chintz:

it is because Hollywood sees gaming as a threat to them now. Especially with articles popping up that people are turning to games through this writer's strike.

No other explanation of such selective targeting.

EnigmaNemesis

I wonder why they didn't sue anyone prior to this. Romero basically invented the modern interpretation of the zombie - a mindless cannibal that carries a disease that turns those it bites into zombies, where zombies are effectively an apocalyptic plague. Before that movie, zombies didn't eat people, didn't turn other people into zombies, and weren't very scary, gory, violent or grotesque.

Nearly everything with zombies in it since then has featured Romero's interpretation. Many have featured other settings from his movies, including farmouses, appartment buildings, underground military research bases, etc. Many have featured the same or a similar cause for zombieism (some sort of space radiation, in the original film). Many have featured similar titles too, some variation of words including "Dead" and sometimes even "of the" as well.

Basically they could have started suing ages ago.

Chintz

@gamadaya:

It's not 100% completion, it's actually getting thgrough the game.

SuperMaxZero

@matteblender:
I think Return of the Living Dead is considered a parody of Romero's DEAD series. Parody is a pretty sweet loophole in the intellectual property laws, there's a lot of legal leeway with parody.

stop2

@Ecks:

Could this be why there hasn't been a port yet? Lawsuits like this take a while to mature ... and I am sure Capcom was notified a while ago by New Line lawyers ... thus why they probably held off on a port, until things get sorted out.

EnigmaNemesis

@stop2: Those bastards!

Irenicus-the one and only

No one representing the zombies in this matter is terrible. No wait, I forgot, MS has their own lawyers, how silly of me.

Irenicus-the one and only

So when is this getting ported to PS3 like Lost Planet did? ;)

Ecks

Microsoft will save them, and DR2 will be 360 exclusive. Like it was supposed to be.

Sailorcancer

To me, after watching a guy play the game, the similarities are pretty obvious, it would have been nice for Capcom to either A) do more to make it different or B) approach the Dawn people and ask for permission----Romero thought up the Zombies and Trapped In a Mall thing---since Capcom is using that exact same premise I can see those people being a little peeved.

@Mikazukinoyaiba ----Intellectual Property is nonsense? Try telling that to the people who work to create original art and stories, when you put your heart and soul into making something it is kinda condensending for someone to take the same exact premise and make something kinda different but obviously meant to play off of your art.

Honestly, if Dead Rising was so different, why not use a different word than 'dead'? The use of that word, along with the Zombie ina Mall theme, to me was a subtle attempt to cash in on what Romero did--just different enough to be legally different but similar enough to ride the cash train.

Zookey

I better get this game quick then cause if this company lays the smackdown im sure any platnium hits DR that gets released etc will get unreleased, and im sure all the copies will get snatched up quick by ebay whores, or get sold for fucking huge over 9000$ profits.

D3Anon

@stop2:
what about the Return of the Living DEAD series? or the million shitty budget zombie movies that lurk in mom and pop video store everywhere

matteblender

i say MKR and capcom make some sweet sweaty zombie loving, and produce the greatest zombie game of all zombie games, like a game based on the big budget version of day of the dead that got cut down to the movie there is now.
or some other configuration, i think fans would be all over that marriage of creative pools.

matteblender

@SuperMaxZero:
I don't think any judge out there cares what 100% completion gets you.

gamadaya

@crazyscreenwriter: This would make Resident evil, Left 4 Dead, and any other zombie based game or movie derivative of GR's work? That's just stupid.

okenny :)

If this is why I haven't seen Dead Rising 2 or any thing concerning Frank West, I will be PISSED.

blackadvent

No hard feelings gang, but Capcom has a history of ignoring others intellectual property rights and trademarks. (Do you recall any of their arcade games? Think hard, no not that hard, you'll remember other groups trademarks). They only get righteous when they feel its their rights being infringed.

tiredofcrap

It was a pretty obvious rip-off. Sorry, Capcom.

So does this mean if MKR wins they'll fix the save system?

crazyscreenwriter

I'm the first person to copyright blinking YOUR FREAKING EYES. Every time you do it, you owe me.

This is probably why Capcom might not make a sequel to Dead Rising and why I think whoever started this lawsuit, should take a flying leap off of a very, very tall cliff.

Ignatius

How long has this game been in the hands of gamers? How long was it in development before that? How long was the premise of this game public knowledge?

Fuck New Line, fuck MKR, fuck their lawyers... the list goes on. This is such a joke. They're mad because Dead Rising is far better than their Romero lineup. I still regret wasting precious life time on that shitty dead flick with John Leguizamo. If they had any sense they'd look to films like 28 days later and consider making some decent zombie films instead of trying to bully other corporations into settlement money to compensate for the shit zombie films they are making. Diary of the Dead? Yeah, that's a property worth protecting.

PlaidNinja

It's funny in all this people are freaking out that New Line is suing Capcom, when the opposite is actually happening. MKR and New Line have not sued, it's CAPCOM who has brought the matter to court. Hopefully this brazen attempt to steal Romero's work will blow up in their face.

stop2

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: Why are you not working for Hollywood? Greatest idea EVER.

@Rockwallaby: It doesn't have the clout of DotD, but Bio-Zombie comes to mind. [www.kfccinema.com]

ShaggE

Well,it's a great game but the movie is much better,so I'll go with Romero in this one,now excuse me,I have to put myself in a flame suit,obviously I'm gonna need it after talk my opinions to rabid fanboys [(*o*)]

OT79

@gamadaya:

Actually, only one (or two) endings do, and it's not the real one.

SuperMaxZero

What? No mentioning of the similarities to the owners of King Kong suing Nintendo for "infringing" on their rights with Donkey Kong?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_Kong_(video_game)#Universal_City_Studios.2C_Inc._v._Nintendo_Co..2C_Ltd.

devmas

Wow this would have actually meant something a few years ago when DR came out. Now all it'll do is drum up some more sales for a budget 360 title & get more exposure for the next game.

Grommell

If Romero gets to sue Capcom, then the voodoo practicing public should be able to sue Romero for ripping the idea off from their cultural beliefs. Zonbi and zombie sound very similar to me!

bigbake

The creators of Resident Evil said that they were inspired by Romero's work. And didn't the same guys make dead rising? So i think they just played it way too close to the edge this time.

Nickatiah

So.. where's the lawsuit against Twilight Creations Inc for Zombies!!! 3: Mall Walkers?
[www.twilightcreationsinc.com]

System_Zero

@GenericKen:
Wait, did DR end with a helicopter escape? That would add even more ammo to New Line's arsenal.

gamadaya

dawn of the dead: zombies inside a mall hmm very similar stuff. there the original movie and the remake.

dexterr

Also, remember that "Declaratory Judgment" business. It's Capcom Suing New Line.

Lotsa people send letters, mainly to protect rights (because then, if it ever really does become an issue, you can say that you did do something to defend it). Personally, I think Capcom is jumping the gun here, but that's just me.

And, really, one of the funniest Court Decisions I ever read was the Battletech v. Exo-Squad cases, not only because Battletech ripped off all of its designs, but there's nothing so hilarious as reading Big Name Federal Appellate Judges try to explain the history of the Inner Spehere.

Slatz_Grobnik

@clayfu:

I always assumed that the helicopter escapes in zombie moives are an allusion to the fall of Saigon. Which I don't think New Line owns the rights to.

GenericKen

@Mikazukinoyaiba:
Hell yeah it would be more harmful! And let me make it clear, I hope New Line loses. I wan't Capcom to feel like they have lots of creative freedom for DR2. On the other hand, I don't wan't people to copy Dawn of the Dead extensivly. It was a really cool movie, and I don't want it's reputation to be ruined by some shitty "Zombies in a mall" movie/game ripoff, and that would be harmful too.

gamadaya

@gamadaya:

The mall wasn't abandoned...it was the center of the town, people got caught inside it when the outbreak happened.

And I still say it's rather very stupid for New Line to claim a intellectual property theft when one guy follows a concept instead of 10, and if it actually wins, shopws a massive flaw in out way of thinking about intellectual property.

SuperMaxZero

im sure this stems from somthing. maybe capcom went to newline/romero and tried to get their licence/approval to make a game based on dawn of the dead, got denied, and then made deadrising anyway and just renamed it and rewrote the script.
no denying they are very similar in the fundementals, so much so that capcom decided to put that little disclaimer on the box, but if newline wanted to make money off deadrising they should have cooperated with capcom on it, not sue them after the game became a hit.
capcom should win this, but i do feel bad for romero because if he ever makes a game, it will undoubtedly be compared to deadrising and probably suck in comparison. he was robbed of the possibility.

CSat420

@gamadaya: It was ahead of its time, the original Dawn is a critique on consumerism, malls had just started to become more & more common and this was Romeros reaction.

It's plain as fucking day that Dead Rising has copied major elements of it's story from Dawn of the Dead, it's specific because it's only been done once before (not counting the remake), if it was my movie I'd be pissed.

Rockwallaby

@Groovy_Guy: "Braaaaiiinss!" "HAHAHAH! YOU CAN'T EAT MY BRAINS NOW! I'M IN A MALL! THAT MEANS IF YOU EAT MY BRAINS YOU WILL BE INFRINGING ON A COPYRIGHT HELD BY NEW LINE CINEMAS WHICH MEANS THAT WE WON'T EXIST! TIME PARADOX!" ".......Torsooooosss" "Fuck."

toejam316

@SuperMaxZero:
The reason there are far more obvious knock offs that haven't been sued is because the manufacturers of said products aren't worth suing. And, no, you can't sue somebody for copying two vauge things. But, even putting to vauge things together significantly lowers the vaugeness. Zombies are only sort of vauge, but when you put them in an abondoned mall, then you start to walk the line a little bit. And when millions of dollers start exchanging hands for the zombies, then you've got a lawsuit on your hands.

gamadaya

There is some merit to New Line's claim, but overall I think they'll lose. Let's take a quick comparison between "Dawn of the Dead" (the original) and "Dead Rising".

How they are similar:
-Both feature slow, stupid zombies
-Both take place in a small-town mall
-Both have "Dead" in the title

How they are different:
-Story. "Dawn of the Dead" takes place after the world-wide zombie threat is well-known while the zombie outbreak in "Dead Rising" is isolated
-Characters. "Dawn of the Dead" was about two SWAT officers, a news editor, and her husband. "Dead Rising" is about a reporter, DHS agents, a government scientist, a pissed-off Mexican, and whatever other survivors you find throughout the game. Likewise the interacton between the characters in "Dawn of the Dead" differ greatly from those in "Dead Rising".
-Cause of the zombies. The cause of the zombie outbreak in Romero's "Dead" series is never explained. "Dead Rising" is about a government experiment with bugs gone horribly wrong.
-Direction. "Dawn of the Dead" was very much about a small group of survivors barricading themselves in the mall, trying to eek out an existence in a world gone to hell. In "Dead Rising" you bring hell to the zombies and try to find a way to escape the mall to inform the rest of the world about said zombies.

So while, on the surface, the two appear rather similar, the more details you add the more the two stand apart. In the end, New Line doesn't have a case.

deadjesterx

That's retarded. Up next: The Wachowski brothers sue the makers of "Max Payne".

scarshapedstar

@gamadaya: I did enjoy the discussion with you though. ;)

But yes, I think there is some sorta limit and ideas are part of it. I find that if this lawsuit was successful it would be more harmful then good for human creativity in general.

Mikazukinoyaiba

@Katorok:

Did you even read what I said...? You have to let the silly ones happen to protect the actual valid cases. Btw I'm guessing her case got thrown out of court. Im not sure how much she could possibly sue for that. You can't sue for a $3 cup of coffee. The minimum is $20 in damages. People are stupid. For sure, but if they suddenly don't allow the crazy cases then corporations and corrupt individuals could stop the REAL lawsuits from happening.

No offense, but you and many other people here are talking about US law when they really don't understand it themselves.

NutManIV

What? There are a lot of games that copy off movies, games that copy off other games, and movies that copy off other movies. Zombies in a mall. Whoa, such a unique concept. *rolls eyes* Get your head outta your ***, MKR.

BloodStainedVendetta

@TheCleaningGuy: is Maximum Risky!: The PS3 can't handle Dead Rising :p ... I'm just poking you :D I heard that Dead Rising was more of an experiment to see if they can move games in a western market. Look at it this way, if they bought Lost Planet which was also called an experiment in the same statement then few things would probably stop them from porting over another game which was equally as successful. This leads me to believe that this legal problem is the hard piece of shit stuffing up Capcom from defecating another awesome DR2 for PS360 and DR port for the PS3. If it really is technical issues, I wouldn't know :|

okenny :)

Looks to me like more of a trademark question than a copyright question. Romero and New Line clearly have a trademark on Zombie titles with the word "DEAD". If another company makes a Zombie title, and they use the word "dead", they'd be violating the trademark. It's exactly the same principle why you can't make your own soda and call it Grape Coke. Because someone else owns the name "coke" for soda.

You can't copyright "ideas". No one can own a copyright on the idea of zombies in a mall. But you can own a copyright on plot specifics regarding your story about zombies in a mall.

But I don't think that matters. This is clearly more of a trademark issue and not a copyright issue, in my opinion.

stop2

@gamadaya:

Its not any standard, aside from maybe the people who write reviews on IMDB. The sheer concept proves its own absurdity. And there are far more obvious actual knockoffs that are never sued, because you can't copyright a vague thing in a place (Murderer in Suburban town...oh god, I just tied up our justice system for over 2 centuries). What this is, is New Line being a douche, to put it bluntly.

SuperMaxZero

@Mikazukinoyaiba:
Alright, I guess if you think intellectual property is bullshit, then I can't convince you, and you'd obviously think that Capcom deserves to win.

gamadaya

@ShaggE: Not the same thing, name another movie with the profile of dawn to the dead that has zombies in a shopping mall.
__

Your kidding yourself if you think it's not a copy or at least "inspired" by dawn, having said that I don't think it will hold up, but it is an American court so I guess anything's possible.

Rockwallaby

Hmm. I can see both sides in this, and I'm not gonna pretend to know enough about law to correctly interpret the situation. I think it'll be interesting to see how a judge rules.

Bishmon

@ShaggE: Wait, what's that leave the snakes to do? Is this like Boa versus Python?

"Large, man-eating snakes go up against their evil, unholy arch nemesis, brain eating zombies in a fight to the finish at JFK Airport."

Movie tagline- "Tonight, the undead will wear snake-skin boots... IN HELL!"

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

@TheCleaningGuy: is Maximum Risky!: How about Capcom producing actual game standard material instead of the crap they've been feeding PS3, oh yeah NICE GAME DEMO FOR LOST PLANET CAPCOM REALLL SMOOTH.

DomUltra

I own the rights of being awesome and all things delicious, the world better not get in my way and copyright it.

/againlolwhut

Let's all launch a class action against New Line for making us love zombies that much more. Next up Resident Evil 5 gets canned, because yeah, Zombies.

DELICIOUS BUNNY

@gamadaya:

Intellectual Property in itself is nonsense, I really wish it was brought down. "ideas" should not be owned, it's ridiculous. Actual technologies yes, because not only were they thought up but also created, tested, and proven.

It is to protect people from losing credit for their own time and work. But simply having an idea should not be protected. Really now, how "unique" or unlikely it is for any form of media to take place in a mall?

Romero wasn't exactly a Leonardo when he thought up the idea, it wasn't something ahead of the time in anyway. I am convinced that inevitably a zombie story would have taken place in a mall.

"To the the average consumer, Dawn of the Dead and Dead Rising are both "Zombies in a mall." And it's not like there are multiple "Zombies in a mall" movies, games, and books spanning many generations. There's two."

What does that mean? The number of products with similarities determine whether they are copyright infringements? Not only does that ignore the fact that at some point there always were a small number of anything with similarities (game consoles, etc) but it doesn't even fit the meaning of copyright infringement.

"And it doesn't matter that Abandoned mall would be a good place to hide during a Zombie invasion."

Yes it does! My argument is that such a common idea should not be copyrighted! It isn't specific enough. Also how are "cops in a mall" any less specific then "zombies in a mall"?

Mikazukinoyaiba

@SuperMaxZero:
Actaully, yes, that is sort of the case. And once again, it's not MY goddamn standard. That's just how things are. In the future, there may be other "Zombies in a mall" games/movies, and they would probably get off a lot easier than Dead Rising.

gamadaya

@njhardcoreguy: Duke Nukem uses all of Ash's Dialogue, does that count?
I want this to end in favor of me getting Dead Rising 2.
Or a bargain priced PS3 port of Dead Rising. (Screw Lost Planet.)

TheCleaningGuy: is Maximum Risky!

@Cutedge:

Yeah well, sine gaming is borderline on kicking Hollywood's ass now in numbers, I can see these reactions.

EnigmaNemesis

@PITwelve: Agreed 100%. Horror, like sci-fi, is also all about "borrowing". How many "psychos in the woods" flicks are there? Exactly.

Also, anyone remember a horror flick called "Intruder"? Killer in a grocery store. Remember the psychopath in the grocery store in Dead Rising? Where's the lawsuit there?

Seems to me like New Line just wants a fatter wallet.

ShaggE

@gamadaya:

In other words, it's off limits until MULTIPLE people do it? What a bizarre standard you have there.

SuperMaxZero

@njhardcoreguy: Well, other than zombies and a mall, can you point out where Dead Rising infringes on Dawn of the Dead's copyrights?

Stoli

What the hell? Hasn't this game been out for more than a year and a half?

Cutedge

You all forget, it's Capcom, they have Phoenix Wright and Apollo Justice for all of their ace attorney/lawyerin' needs!

In all seriousness, though New Line's in some pretty hot water with their LotR trilogies, the Tolkein estate never got paid their royalties for any of the movies aside from some upfront money. So, one could say, New Line's just trying to make some money off of Capcom and Dawn of the Dead/Dead Rising because they know they're gonna lose a ton in the LotR deal seeing as the Tolkein estate is basically a gianormous charity and they haven't seen much of the money they were entitled to.

taichi425

@ssoltero:
10 years after the movie?

gamadaya

And Shinobi is obviously infringing on the American Ninja Series.

ssoltero

As stated earlier, if they are referring to the new Dawn of the Dead film, then there is even less in common. Also mentioned earlier was the amount of borrowing done in science fiction. Anyone ever wonder where the idea of Halo came from, go read Larry Niven`s Ringworld. Is it a big deal that it borrowed from it? NO! and neither is it a big deal that the only common thing between Romero`s original shit film Dawn of the Dead and Capcom`s Dead Rising is a Mall. And c`mon, Dead Rising`s pyschopaths were a lot more enjoyable than the dirty bikers who came through the mall in Romero`s film.

PITwelve

They stole the idea from my. I thought of that back in '88!

ssoltero

the real question is, where did Dawn of the Dead steal it's ideas from?

baccardi84

New Line are assholes. If they do anything to prevent DR2 from coming out grrrrrrrr I will no longer buy any more New Line movies.

y2julio

Good. This is what Capcom gets for rejecting Romeros Resident Evil script. Stupid ass capcom dont know what a real zombie story is.

NoBullet

@K-OSS:
If putting a statement on a box covered your but, then nobody would be bitching about video game ratings.

gamadaya

@Mikazukinoyaiba:
Haven't you ever heard of intelectual property? Ideas and scenarios can be copyrighted just as easily as technology. In fact, more copyrights will be placed on ideas than technologies very soon. And there is a difference between putting a copyright on all machines that can render interactive images on a screen and putting a copyright on zombies in a fucking mall. To the the average consumer, Dawn of the Dead and Dead Rising are both "Zombies in a mall." And it's not like there are multiple "Zombies in a mall" movies, games, and books spanning many generations. There's two. Dead Rising, and Dawn of the Dead. And it doesn't matter that Abandoned mall would be a good place to hide during a Zombie invasion. How the hell how do you even know that? It didn't work out so well in the movie, did it now? Plus, it's not like there are actual zombies we can test this with. There has also not been any other case of "Zombies in a mall" other than Dawn of the Dead, except for Dead Rising. I'll admit, if it were "Cops in a mall" that we were dealing with, I'd be on Capcom's side, because that's a real life scenario that many people have actually done. But Zombies in an abandoned mall is just a teensy bit more specific.

gamadaya

Shopping Mall + Zombies = Dawn of the dead

Do they have a case probably not

Rockwallaby

Well, maybe they have their butts covered with the whole "Not Related to George A. Romero's Dawn of the Dead", but how can they make a case that this is not copyright infringement on the acclaimed Zack Snyder's Dawn of the Dead from 2004? ([www.imdb.com])

Prepare to be paying out the wazoo, Capcom.

K-OSS

Okay, let's settle this. Once and for all. So you want to make a zombie game. You can make your zombie game, but not in a house, mall, under a city, or in an area outside of a city. Romero's copyrights. You also can't set in a mansion, city, city again, military base, European castle, or Spanish village. Resident Evil copyrights. You can however, use aliens, serial killers, bugs, and giant snaes in soem or all of those areas (research pending).

However, no supernatural being, whether it uses giant scissors or not, can step foot in a Clock Tower. Through the franchise it has adopted both a wide range of villains and the Clock Tower environment, thus stupid people could confuse your game as a sequel to that series.

P.S. If you want to use guns in your zombie game (against zombies), all that's left are microwave guns and Stem submachine guns...oh, Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Sorry. Stick to creatively shaped sharpened objects.

SuperMaxZero

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.:
"Snakes On A Plane 2: Zombies Take Over Random Public Fixture" would be a great movie.

ShaggE

As far as I'm concerned zombies in a shopping mall is as wholly unprotectable as sentient machines that try to wipe out humanity, but it isn't up to me. If the latter could be copyrighted half of science fiction would be involved in a lawsuit.

Gouki4u

Give me a break. Yes they are similar, but not infringing.

WEGGLES90

The legal test is not whether a consumer would confuse the two. The test is whether the idea and expression of the idea merge.

Here the idea is "Humans surviving in a shopping mall overrun with zombies." New Line, Romero or anyone else cannot copyright this idea since it would basically give them a monopoly over depicting zombies in a shopping mall.

If however, Dead Rising copied Dawn of the Dead's expression of the idea of zombies in a shopping mall then there is an infringement case against Capcom.

The fact of the matter is that Capcom did not copy any story elements out of Dawn besides the general zombies in a mall idea. There aren't any similar characters and the plot revolves around uncovering a mystery, which was not part of Dawn's storyline.

Capcom is safe on this one.

mfsteve

@NutManIV: I'm sure that woman who dropped her coffee expecting it to be cold had a valid case..

Katorok

The letter went where? Capcom; well duh, Microsoft; well.. okay, I can see that, but Best Buy? Why do they care? Why not send a letter to Circuit City, Gamestop/EBGames, Walmart, Kmart/Sears, etc etc? Yeesh.

Furthermore, I don't see any alarming similarities in Dawn of the Dead and Dead Rising besides they are both (mostly) in a mall and that they both have 'Dead' in the title. Its like saying Metal Gear is ripping off Spies Like Us. (okay not exactly...)

Muffin_Man

C'mon New Line, I thought it was pretty obvious that Dead Rising was a homage?

cyhborg

@gamadaya:
"Also, for a long, long time, Nintendo, Sega, Microsoft, and Sony all had to pay royalties to Magnavox because Magnavox owned the rights to video game technology"
EXACTLY. Actual technology and blueprints, not simply "ideas" and "scenarios".

"It's irresponsible to say that only one company can make game consoles because some people will get them confused."

If you can't see how ridiculous this lawsuit is then you must also see Nintendo justified in suing Sony for their PSP. How is it any more responsible to say that only ONE entertainment media product can have a zombie invasion story occur in a mall? I mean, there are only SO many places where people would hide in a zombie outbreak. Sure, Dead Rising could have taken place inside of that gas station, a small village, etc. Fact is, scenarios will often be recycled because when you're trying to appeal to an audience you use settings they are familiar with. The mall is one of those settings and actually is rather viable as a refuge during a zombie outbreak.

As said before, the similarities between Dead Rising and Dawn of the Dead are extremely few. Sorry, but I'm a little bit unsure what you are arguing.

Mikazukinoyaiba

@SynKade: I highly doubt that even that was the first 'zombie' movie.

As far as for what we consider a zombie movie ie a mass a undead that eat people while a few living guys try to survive, yes Night of the Living Dead was the first. If you just mean zombie as in the Haiti voodoo kind that would be the movie White Zombie from the 1930s.

VSpeck

[en.wikipedia.org]

THIS was the first zombie movie. And even before this, zombies already existed. The word was invented by carribean culture.

Ashurahori

@kidnicky: Perhaps so, but does that matter a lot? I mean, you shouldn't be able to copyright a theme of 'zombies take over random public fixture'. It's not as if there's anything original by brain-hungry creatures attacking a potential target for meaty goodness. That target could've been anywhere. A mall, a school, a sporting event, anything. It's not like the movies targeted some specific landmark and the game mimicked that.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

Lame ... I wonder if family decedents from ancient men that wrote all our Fairy Tales and Lore can sue all these people who claim to "copyright" things they just took from history!

EnigmaNemesis

@gamadaya: I'm going to have to agree with you, although I'm not American my confusion was thought to be of Dawn of the Dead or something similar when Dead Rising was released, I do believe New Line will have a strong argument in court.

Also, don't bash New Line everyone they got some decent movies if not great movies under there branch, I do believe they wouldn't be doing this to grief Devs, and give them a break they get enough shit from the MPAA anyway.

DomUltra

@Katorok:

The problem is the fact that this is the best that it can get. Its not like they will automatically win a lawsuit. They have to go to trial and if its ridiculous then it'll get thrown out. You have to have it this way to control corporations. You need to be able to sue for even the silliest of stuff. That way people are genuinely being ripped off will be able to do something about it.

NutManIV

Gamayada is kinda right. Generally "ideas" are not copyrightable, so an idea of a person in a mall is not necessarily copyrightable because it could be just a general idea.

BUT, as the minor details start to pile up and be more and more similar is wher ethe lawsuit is going to come from.

Helicopter escape and the etc. Then you ask a reasonable consumer if they know the difference.

clayfu

I think Capcom will win, but it is NOT a ridiculous lawsuit -- at first blush, there are significant parallels between the two. As was mentioned, a typical consumer could easily confuse the two.

However, I think Capcom significantly differentiated the product and provided a disclaimer to inform consumers -- which is a huge step. So, again, Capcom should prevail, but it's a legitimate legal argument.

jayntampa

@GregoriusH:
The "sarcasm detector" is always broken on the internet. I've seen some nasty fights.

DigitalHero

@Insomnia Bob: While they're at it they better sue Richard Matheson going back in a time machine and writing I Am Legend.

..Oh wait.

dynendal

@Mikazukinoyaiba:
You know it's not my mom's definition. That's the definition of the US legal system. Also, for a long, long time, Nintendo, Sega, Microsoft, and Sony all had to pay royalties to Magnavox because Magnavox owned the rights to video game technology. It's irresponsible to say that only one company can make game consoles because some people will get them confused. Of course they will, and same with Dead Rising and Dawn of the Dead. But gaming is a very broad and diverse industry now. Game makers use very different technologies in different ways. It's tough to use "Zombies in a mall" in more than one way. And just because I didn't know that Dead Rising wasn't Dawn of the Dead related the instant I saw it doesn't mean I'm not informed.

@Arttemis:
Thing is, they are. The bottom line is Capcom made at least some money off of Romero's idea, the one New Line owns the