looks like pc gaming is on a downward slope. i dont really care because i have a ps3 so im good to go.

Prodigys Flawless

PC games will always get the BEST mods and more free DLC. Hell TF2 just gave out a free update for PC only. Just rememebr that COnsoles are just becoming more and more like PCs. Soon there will not be a difference.

Hand_O_Death

Don't tell me you console gamers don't have a PC for messaging, forums, homework, and stuff like that. If you are going to spend $500 for a low end PC why not spend an additional $500 to make it good for gaming. A PC is not just a $1000 console.

Dark_Jon

Hey Epic, could you guys bring Gears of War 2 to the PS3. Us playsation fans who supported UT3 will greatly appreciate Gears 2. Also look at this weeks NDP results, the PS3 looks like it's coming back. Combined sales of Sony's three systems outsold Nintendo's two systems by almost 239,000 units.

PSN: Lp47

PC gaming dead? Pfah.

I've got this strange feeling that we'll continue to use PCs, and as long as we do, there will always be PC gaming.

Oh yeah, and talk about selling a good franchise, Epic.

r1nce

maybe for epic, "what's old is new again", in terms of consoles. the unreal tournament games probably seem new to console gamers, where as it's old hat on the pc. we've been playing unreal for years. its turned into the "madden" of fps deathmatch games. NEXT!

diodegrey

@Adam: actually you can get a 8800 GT for about that price.

ritful

Sins of a solar empire. I don't know what else i have to say. Show me anything truly like it on a console that hasnt been utterly gimped in some way.

Sunjammer

My photoshop skills stop at pasting heads on bodies. As you can tell.

[bp3.blogger.com]

Adam

Piracy absolutely killed PC gaming, everything else like having to upgrade etc is just beating a dead horse. Look at the yearly PC sales charts since Bittorrent was released in 2001. It's one long gradual downward slope. Anyone could see it coming, and many did which is why most big industry players made the shift to consoles years ago.

Nornus

Cliffy is just pissed off that Sins of a Solar Empire, a game made by a team of less than 20 people from a developer nobody's heard of and published by a company that is more known for skinning Windows, outsold the total sales of UT3 in like, 3 days.

Uranium-235

If you support Console over PC gaming, you're stabbing at the very heart of indie gaming and innovation in gaming. Hardware manufacturers should NEVER, EVER, EVER control content placed on their hardware. Do Sony DVD players reject Kill Bill causes its to violent? Do Philips DVD players reject Clockwork Orange cause it was rated X in UK? No. I know gaming hardware is "different". It's not suppose to be.
HARDWARE is HARDWARE.

Hardware manufacturers should make loot from hardware sales and that's it. Why do console makers control content played on their hardware? That's like GM telling you which roads you can drive on?

Freedom of Speech? GONE
Indie gaming? GONE
Ridiculous fees on dev kits? IN
Royalty charges? IN
Iron Curtain? IN

Pains to see Console weigh in on PC gaming. Eventually I'll be ashamed to call myself a gamer if I'm forced to play only Console titles. When all console content is highly censored, bias and downright fed to us.

That's what this all really about - most gamers just don't care about the independent gaming scene.

SchoolBusDriver

Epic used to be a great dev with PC gamers 1st in mind previous UT titles had massive amounts of FREE official content , great support and service. It's a damn shame Ut3 wasn't as good due to it's consolefied simpleness..
Maybe if devs actually TRIED making decent games for PC it wouldn't be so bad in the first place :P

Devs hopping on the console quick cash cow wagon is why pc games are in disarray. No one is creating anymore, just quick carbon copy cash-ins, no one is taking risks. Same reason why the wii is not doing so "great" , devs are sticking to safe, simple crap. No creativity , they are wasting that machine's true potiential.

Lokku

@Clutch414:

Let's see... about $180 (total money spent upgrading my PC). I've been using the same PC for about 3 years now, and I've only upgraded it twice.

Original Specs:

AMD Athlon 64 3200+ (2 GHz)
NVIDIA GeForce 6800GTS
1GB DDR RAM
343 GB storage (formatted, 2 HDDs)

I upgraded my CPU about 8 months ago to an Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (2.2 Ghz, cost $90), and then upgraded my GPU about 6 months ago to an NVIDIA 8600 GT (Originally $120, but price was brought down to $90 with mail in rebate).

Guess what? I can play HL2: EP2, Portal, and TF 2 almost maxed out. I only need to lower Anti aliasing to 4x.

Only people who spend crap loads of money on gaming PCs get the attention of the masses, but in reality only a small percent of the market actually spends $1,000+ on gaming PCs. If you're smart (like I am), you go looking on Newegg for the best deals on the midrange equipment, and then research reviews of said product. Then you find the best bang for your buck of what you want, and then buy.

MrSmiley4

The market will go where the market will go. Consoles and PC gaming will begin to drift apart until you won't see nearly as much competition as you do today.

PsycheDiver

WOW and I thought he looked pretty gay before but now it pretty much cements it!!!!!!!!

slappyMCslappy

@mizeriq: I think most are afraid to do a little research on their own, unfortunately, alienware price ranges are what some people think of as a gaming pc...

brennan

@mizeriq: $500? Now who is the one telling a white lie?

Seriously, a gaming setup for anyone that has no extra parts to use will cost upwards of $800 if you can build it, or more if you cannot. Heck, a good video card will run you $2-300 alone.

I understand your point that it is not as expensive as some people make it out to be, but the gaming market is flooded with casual gamers who cannot build their own systems. To them a gaming PC comes from Dell.

Hiero Glyph

The way I see It, todays consoles has reached the point where graphics has become so good that the few extra polygons a high end PC can produce just isnt worth hassle of things like installs, patches, office chair, 19" monitor & the occasional 'crash'.
Also, online gaming was a "PC exclusive" in the past but now Its actually easier to play with friends on a 360 than a PC..

KEELr

Wow, $2500 for a decent PC? I guess console fanboys like to exaggerate, but you can get a decent PC for $500, that will run CoD4 at maximum settings with 60+ fps and that's at resolution higher than 720p. Hell, most PC games have 1024x768 as the minimum resolution option available.

mizeriq

@ara:Well, DirectX is the API of choice for the most part, and Microsoft is constantly trying to improve it. For the most part I agree with what your saying. Here's to things getting better on the PC.

homernoy

@DigitalHero: "I stopped upgrading my PC when the dual graphics cards were introduced."

Back when Voodoo2 came out? That's quite a while ago. PC gaming has never been cheap or simple. And Much of the blame goes to MS who hasn't implemented it better. I mean Valve did it well with Steam, just click to buy and it downloads and installs it for you, and updates when needed. The new Games for Vista specs that allows you to play without installing, or installing during gameplay, or do the plain old install is great step towards, but if MS really cared about PC gaming, they would had done a hell lot more to it.

ara

@JohnnytheFuture: Basing the future success of PC gaming on a keyboard+mouse peripheral is about the dumbest reply you can make. And just for the record, the QWERTY keyboard is archaic for gaming. Last time I checked, the PS3 does support a keyboard+mouse combo for UT3, so I guess the end is here already.

Nice post though, but if you are going to make a stupid comment, do not pretext it with a flame notice; take it like a man next time.

Hiero Glyph

Heh, from what I understand the hardcore PC gaming demographic loves the way the situation is right now.

SSJPabs

isn't a game console just a computer without a keyboard that you can't upgrade?

console players don't create content. console players don't mod or make maps to share.

console players must be reliant on content coming down from on high and that makes businesses very happy, users not so much. peer created content? huh?

my favorite PC fan content to date? Thief 2X. nearly a complete game unto itself. console players, no free content for you, ever, sorry..

ps: 2ks' 'interesting' solution to piracy sucked balls and must be destroyed with fire if it ever raises it's ugly head again.

railskins

@jynxycat: Why is Epic even where it's at today ?
Oh that's right, the PC market.
So what? How about Microsoft? Didn't they start up in the PC realm too? I changed your comment below to more reflect the wonderful nirvana that is PC gaming.
--

"How is TF2 on consoles that much inferior? I've never had a problem playing it on Xbox Live. Please explain."

Oh I don't know, hundreds of custom maps, plus new Valve created content, easier server navigation, larger player limits, better visuals, better controls.

You must have meant:
Oh I don't know, hundreds of shitty unplayable maps, plus new Valve created content which no one uses because they always play the same maps over and over again (de_dust anyone?), more assholes, more lag, same visuals, carpel tunnel in my left wrist.

GOLD5

@HootieMac, The Very, Very, Very, Very, Very Angry Twins Fan: you're right, but my point was the Xbox360 is just a tiny PC and prone to similar out-of-the-box failures.

sidenote: It was Bungie, not WOW, that really killed PC Gaming. Halo was originally a PC/MAC game. Some would argue that Halo is the sole reason the original Xbox survived its first year.

rainofwalrus [XBL]

@Clutch414: Noone is debating that there's gold in console hills. The debate is the supposed demise of PC gaming. I game on both and I do so for different experiences. I am part of two subcultures and neither are the same. They may seem the same on the surface but are not. Console gamers and PC gamers have different priorities and expectations of their gaming. If either filled all the needs then one would have swallowed the other a long time ago. Neither has and it's for a reason.

As far as the grapics race, look at your PS2 graphics. How long after the PS2 launch did PC games graphics start to outstrip those PS2 graphics? How long after the Dreamcast did PC graphics outstrip its graphics? The Xbox? Points in time are one thing but when you are talking about steady continuation of advancement in gaming graphics then you are talking about PC's. If you are talking 6-10 year cycles in graphics progress then you are talking about consoles.

Tepoz

Moral of the comments...don't say anything negative about PC gaming because PC-only gamers are over-sensitive. .

The "better visuals" and "better controls" are deabtable. I know TF2 looks awfully impressive on my Xbox 360 setup.

Not eveyone prefers keyboard/mouse control. Dual analog

Plus...I can get TF2 for my $350 Xbox 360. How much did you pay for you PC?

My point is..and it always has been...that there is more money to be made in the console market for developers. A couple of perks with the PC version of a game isn't going to change that.

Clutch414

What the hell is that picture? It's like Cliffy and Dave Navarro decided to re-enact Face/Off.

Intellectualdiot

**Bracing for flames** PC gaming will become obsolete once consoles start offering a keyboard and mouse control scheme. This will never happen. PC gaming is safe.

p.s. Not a big fan of "Cliffy B", nor Gears of War. There, I said it.

JohnnytheFuture

Why is Epic even where it's at today ?

Oh that's right, the PC market.

--

"How is TF2 on consoles that much inferior? I've never had a problem playing it on Xbox Live. Please explain."

Oh I don't know, hundreds of custom maps, plus new Valve created content, easier server navigation, larger player limits, better visuals, better controls.

jynxycat

2k presented an interesting solution to piracy by having the web verification of the product key before the game installed, but there is no subsequent check when you uninstall the game, so users were forced to deal with 2k's support end to continue to be able to use the game. also, some games are certainly not worth the 49.99 price tag the publishers slap on them. can anyone honestly say stanglehold is worth that price. some even less heralded games like infernal hit the retail shelves at 49.99. simply does not make any sense.

rennyf77

This is utter garbage.

Epic released a buggy, unplayable version of Gears of War-- which, frankly, plays ATROCIOUSLY with keyboard and mouse. The game was designed for consoles. Why anyone would buy it is beyond me.

Then they released UT3. With consolized menus, less game modes than in previous versions, no options, a terrible demo, terrible community support, AND NO INNOVATION. And as a result it sold poorly.

Epic, in an attempt to save face, blames their poor sales on the PC market. No Epic, you guys attempted to cash in on consoles, and as a result alienated the fans who have supported you from the start.

I'm not saying multiplatform is bad-- it works great for Valve, who has the respect to tweak each version of their game so that it is great on each platform. Epic, it seems, made one version of the game, and released it on both ps3 and PC... to epic fail.

Harmatia

@Hiero Glyph:

I agree, but the gap is also closing because the technology used in consoles is getting closer and closer to that of top-of-the-line PC's. You're absolutely right, devs are optimizing their engines and games for consoles...but I would also add that I think that devs have much more processing power to work with this generation with the PS3 and 360. I mean..the 360 has a triple core IBM processor with each core running at 3.2 gHz and an Nvidia GPU that was close to their top-of-the-line PC graphics cards at the time it launched right? And the PS3 has the mythical Core processor.

I don't think that console game devs ever had this much to work with before. Sure, the orignial Xbox was pretty powerful...but high-level PC's at the time had much more power. Now..I would argue that the technology in consoles is comparable to PC's. Don't get me wrong...a fully pimped-out PC with a pimp GPU will have more power than the consoles, but they are much closer now than in previous generations. And I expect the gap to close even more with the NEXT generation.

I completely agree with your point about a successful console MMO. If any of the consoles get a MMO that is close to as successful as WoW, look out.

But...PC gaming will never die. The market is just trending towards consoles right now.

Clutch414

@Clutch414: Not to disagree with my previous points, but the gap is closing because more developers are spending their time optimizing their engines and games for the console hardware instead of on the PC counterparts. Crytek did some amazing things with their engine, but as we all know the price of entry for a PC that can operate that engine is quite prohibitive.

I think the trend will continue in favor of the consoles for the next few years. Once a successful MMO (I'm looking at you NCSoft and Bioware) is released on the consoles I think it will officially declare the demise of PC gaming in general. There will always be great games on the PC, but they will be only the newest and best games designed to showcase the newest technologies; or simple ports of the console games.

As I have said before, the bottom line is that money talks; and right now the consoles have all the money.

Hiero Glyph

So Cliff says he wants to concentrate on console? I don't buy it, not after the shit he pulled with Gears.

The game took him less than ten million to make and was a huge success for Microsoft's console, so to thank us all for making it so successful, he ported it to PC and added content he said would never be released for the 360. Way to screw the people who bought the game, Cliffy.

DoesNotEqual

@homernoy:

That's fine to disagree...but I don't think the PC turnover rate for non-gamers is as high as it is for gamers. I mean...if all you use your PC for is internet surfing and office related stuff...I think a PC could remain viable for a good 8-10 years. I mean...the real hog of processing power is graphics, and if you're not doing graphics-heavy work on your computer...the need to upgrade is much less.

Anecdotally, I know this is the case my parents...I just recently ordered my Mom and Dad a new computer. The one they had previously they bought in 1999. And it still *worked*. I was the one who had to convince them to upgrade.

Clutch414

Look I know Cliffy B made the all knowing all conquring Gears of War. But thats all he did. He didn't cure cancer or create peace in the middle east. So who cares what he says? He didn't make the large list I have of kick ass games I have played since the atari 2600. Gotta love that Backstreet Boy look he is sporting. Maybe his next 18 year old girl friend with dig that too.

xerodefects

PC gaming wont die. Ever. We've all heard this same story for the past ten years, and it hasn't happened yet. And I'm glad. I like Halo as much as the next guy, but nothing can beat playing an FPS on a PC.

Example, CoD on PC is practically a stealth game. You spend half the time sneaking around listening for footsteps or breathing in your headphones. On console you basically just run around guns a'blazing. Which is fine. That's fun too. But it depends on what kind of experience you want.

NeverSage

@Hiero Glyph:

Right...but I think the techinical gap is closing between what can be done on the PC and what can be done on a console. That's also part of my point.

Clutch414

@Clutch414: Then it's obvious we disagree. For Christs sake, even if you don't game, in 4-6 years you most likely are going to need to buy or build a new PC anyway. Like I said, to each his/her own

homernoy

@homernoy:

"your stupid"

Ironic?

Clutch414

@homernoy:

I was doing neither...and I take it that you didn't read any of my previous posts. For the people in the cheap seats...I play BOTH CONSOLE AND PC GAMES!

All I was saying that I could see the reasoning why Cliffy would say something like he did...the console market is hot right now BECAUSE OF THE LOWER COST OF ENTRY. Also...it's not like PC's DON'T get obsolete.

Sure...most people do have PC's...but what if their PC is 4-6 years old and horrbly obsolete? You're telling me that they wouldn't have to at least spend serious cash to upgrade that PC to be able to reasobnably run a game like Gears of War? RAM and GPU's can be pretty expensive.

What happens in another 4-6 years when that upgraded PC is horribly obsolete and is well past the ability to be upgraded? Eventually you're going to have to get a new PC. And a new console costs signincantly less than a new PC.

PC's don't magically upgrade themselves fo free...so how else other than spending CASH are you going to keep your rig current?

Clutch414

You CAN play PC games on a couch, use the 360 wirless adapter and hook your pc up to a HDTV, hell you could even use a wireless video sender. Why you would want to buy another, inferior computer just to play games is beyond me, but i guess it supports the big corporations and makes you tards wet your nappies when you see a shiney advertisment from a marketing budget larger than the development budget.

Comparing the cost of a console to a pc = wrong, compare it to the price of a graphics card. unless your PC is really really bad (not dual core <1gb ram) then, where i live (hong kong) you can get a 8800gt for a little more than half the price of a wii.

It takes less intelligence to game on a console, so it really isnt surprising that most console gamers are thick as planks.

robair

@KanoBlade: Wrong, if you read what I said (in particular the Bottom Line at the very end), Nintendo is appealing to the largest audience possible and therefore having the most success in terms of total sales/profit. Also note that most of them Wii games are horrible and per yesterday's story, average the lowest score for any console this generation.

Hiero Glyph

#1. Don't release a bad PC demo, especially when other AAA titles of the same genre have fantastic demos.

----------

I can see where he's going but the root of Epic's problem was the bad PC demo. This killed UT3 on the PC more than anything else, not because the PC is in disarray.

Slowly but surely, PC gamers are upgrading their graphics cards but it wasn't anywhere near the number that did when Battlefield 2 hit. The COD4 and Orange Box (HL2) engines scaled pretty damn good across all machines. These were the games to get on the PC in 2007 besides WOW, which scales pretty damn good across all machines also.

A console gamer spends more money on software than hardware. A PC gamers spends more money on hardware than software. There is a differnt focus for each group. This is why PC gaming generally outstrips console gaming graphic wise within a few years after a new console is released.

Due to this, PC gamers group around popular games released in each genre. Why purchase a game with limited funds if noone else is playing it? PC gamers support what's big or popular and what everyone else is playing. This is why free adver-games and free-except-for-certain-features games are coming out on the PC more.

Tepoz

@HIERO GLYPH

So by your logic, the PC is better because the hardware is better?

Nintendo's already proven you wrong..

KanoBlade

Sorry Cliff but you look like a douche with that Zorro/Neville Sinclair mustache.

gils0n

Iam sorry for being off the subject on this comment but the Cary Elwes look should be for Cary Elwes and Cary Elwes only. Cliffy looks like a gay pornstar.

MURDERFACE

@Clutch414: You are both saying the same thing, just from different perspectives.

1) PC gaming is potentially superior to console gaming due to overall processing power and direct support.
2) Console have a much larger installed base due to their price and simple components.
3) Optimizing for a single setup (consoles) is much easier than optimizing for multiple setups (PCs).
3b) Also, it is easier to port a game based on the lower specs than it is to refine from a higher requirement setup.
4) The goal of most developers (EA excluded) is to make really good games, while making enough money to support the development process of these games.

So in the end the PC games will always be 'better' due to the unrestricted requirements that they can utilize; but console gaming will always be more popular due to the larger installed base and therefore make more money for the exact same content.

Bottom line: Until PCs can standardize themselves to a degree, the consoles will continue to outpace them in total sales due to the casual gaming (read: larger user base) market.

Hiero Glyph

@Clutch414: give me a break. Everyone already has a PC for the most part. I don't know why people keep talking about the price of something they already have paid for.

I hate to break it to you but if you pay $1600 on top of what you already own, your stupid. I mean that only if your a casual PC gamer. Go buy a cheap AGP GPU if you have an old system. Add a stick of RAM. TF2 hardly requires a super computer to run great. That applies to all Valve games.

You can also play games with the 360 controller if you like. You can hook your PC up to your HDTV if you like. Price should not be the determining factor. That type of thing is just misinformation.

Hey, if people prefer the consoles, great. Just don't try to rationalize as to why PC gaming is dying, or why you don't like it. To each his/her own.

homernoy

@ajay42:

Again...you just don't get the point. *sigh*

The console game market is more popular (and therefore more lucrative due to the popularity) because of the lower cost of entry in comparison with the PC gaming market and that is where Epic is going to be making games because they have the ability to make more money. And a few extra features for a game here or there isn't going to change that fact.

Clutch414

Maybe the reason why the PC version sold so poorly is because it was released one year later, and everyone who wanted Gears has bought it already like myself.

optimusprime

@Sober:

You missed my point. Those things do make TF2 better...but only marginally. Notice where I said that there was no appreciable difference between the two games. I'm very happy that you're getting badlands today and you have a map editor...but is that worth the extra $400-$1600 people spent on PC's to play that game vs. the same basic experience that someone is getting from playing TF2 on a console?

Along those same lines...when IS Mass Effect coming out for PC? Because I've had it since November for my 360.

Jeez...you PC-only guys are an awfully sensitive bunch. Cliffy simply epxlains why Epic is going in a console-centric direction (which is realistically where the money is) and you guys all get your panties in a twist. Too funny...lol.

Clutch414

When Starcraft hits then PC might come back, but with all these hacks and pirated CDs, its easy to see why PC games are suffering.

goldwings

@Hiero Glyph: EDIT: I am agreeing that the console version is gimped to a degree.

Hiero Glyph

@ajay42: I am not agreeing that the console version is gimped to a degree. My dispute in with the aim-assist for dual analogs. Just because a mouse is more accurate does not make it superior. Last time I checked both are an approximation of how you would aim under real-world conditions. So neither is entirely valid or requires more/less skill. By your logic the Wii-mote is the most accurate aiming device on the market.

Keep the conversation on topic please. Using peripherals is not the way to validate anything.

Hiero Glyph

er that should've been @clutch, not @benstein

ajay42

@Benstein: "but you make it sound like the console version of TF2 is inferior, which couldn't be further from the truth."

Look I really don't want to turn this into some silly back and forth flame war but the console version IS inferior insofar as anything can be judged that way. Does it have less features? Yes. Are those features attractive features? Yes, you already admitted they are. So what strange definition of "inferior" are you using that doesn't say that 'x thing with less good stuff than y thing' is not "inferior"?

And while you may be right that people's preferred input device is a personal choice, that doesn't change the fact (and let me emphasize FACT here) that ALL console FPS's have aimbots built into them because accuracy with dual analog is impossible. People who get 'good' at console FPS's aren't those who have honed their aiming skills but rather internalized the fact that you don't actually have to aim. Just gesture your stick vaguely towards what you want to hit, fire, and lo and behold you hit it! People do internalize this (probably subconsciously) and do get quite good at it, but its essentially gaming a flaw in the control system more than anything else.

ajay42

@Clutch414: I haven't upgraded my PC in 3 years, so I still have a single-core processor, a 6600GT AGP, a gig of RAM, but it still works well. There were times where I thought "hey, that 360/PS3 would be a good replacement", but I've been PC gaming since I was still in diapers. Might just elitism. Also I don't go and throw money away on games. I'm still ticked off by the fact I bought Bioshock on the PC and the activation won't work, but everything else I've bought, mostly RTSes and the SimCity games I've always enjoyed, along with the Blizzard and VALVe roster. Not to mention you can't get that same experience on the console with those games.

Also, people have already listed why TF2 is better. Map building tools, etc. is more than enough. And tell me the last time you're getting updates? Aren't us PC TF2'ers getting badlands and the shit today?

Sober

@Benstein: How many homes have an HDTV already? How many homes have a game-quality PC? If you are going to make a point, at least support it with something that will help your case. Most homes have an HDTV already due to sports, DVR's and flat panel technology. How many of those same consumers have a PC capable of running Crysis? 5%, maybe 10% at most? Also, how much would it cost for a 30+ inch monitor? An HDTV is only $500-700 for a 32-7". Now add in surround sound that will work for movies, music, gaming and general television shows and the console has a huge advantage.

Nice try with the cost being the same, but it just does not add up.

Hiero Glyph

@Hiero Glyph:

EXACTLY.

Clutch414

PC gaming was a small slice of the market anyway.
The piracy argument - I don't know the actual stats - but before the current gen of online consoles, you could just get a modchip and that was it - everything is cracked forever. So it's really a LOT easier than pirating PC games. I seriously doubt piracy alone is killing PC gaming - maybe the fact that the market for it is so small that that much piracy takes it that close to ruin where on consoles it's a drop in the bucket?

Also, pretty much anything MS is trying to do with PC gaming now is surely killing it steadily. I remember when they played fair and just released games broken beyond compare like Outwars, but now they want to lock it down and some people aren't dumb enough to fall for it.

That, and the old fact of constantly chasing new hardware upgrades, hoping you don't have a video driver that doesn't work with a given game, or any other conflicts and issues like corrupted sound or random rebooting, or just generally dealing with evil, hardcore, deal-breaking DRM that wants to own your whole PC just to police your game. Increasingly the only ones willing to go through that are the utmost hardcore players. Crysis was a slap in the face to many of them as lots of PC gamers dropped several grand on a new PC, got Crysis, and it still ran badly with settings turned up. That kind of thing is a breaking point too. So is it any wonder that the only ones left are casual players running games with trivial or outdated graphics?

I've loved PCs my whole life. I support them for a living! I still keep a few games on my PC, but mostly I switch my monitor over to the other input lines and game on consoles because it's just not worth it on PC.

fuchikoma

@Benstein:

Right...but you don't NEED an HDTV to play a consoles. Does it make the experience better? Sure...but eveyone (practically) has a TV already. If my 360 breaks...I got a 3 year warranty for the red rings through MS and I got a 2 year "bumper to bumper" warranty through the retailer. Xbox Live costs about the price of one PC game a year. All those costs STILL don't add up to the cost of a PC.

Clutch414

Bottom line: Due to the popularity of consoles and the fact that most gamers own multiple consoles, there is more money to be made making console games than PC games currently.

Hiero Glyph

@Lou3000:

Exactly how I feel. I gave up on PC gaming right around the time I couldn't run Half-Life 2. Sure I didnt get to play through it till The Orange Box but I just couldn't stand my rig being obsolete in a year and once I got my HDTV and 5.1 system, well it was goodbye desk forever, hello comfy couch.

Gray665

@Sober:

No...you can just fool them to spend ridiculous amounts of money every 4-6 years to upgrade their rig when you can arguably get the same experience for far less on a console.

How is TF2 on consoles that much inferior? I've never had a problem playing it on Xbox Live. Please explain.

I don't think Cliffy was saying that PC gaming is "dead," he was just saying that the market is hot for consoles and that's where he was taking his business...which is smart.

Clutch414

I glad all the "Halo boyz" are leaving PC. Enjoy the same game over and over again. I'll take innovation and indy studios over generic console crap any day.

Is a $1500 PC more than $400 for a console? Yes. But add in the cost for the HDTV, the extra controllers, XBOX Live subscription, $10 extra per game, consoles that break every year and you have no hope to fix it yourself... and then add in the fact that everyone here is reading this on some type of PC. You NEED a PC to survive. Why not pay $400 extra and get a PC that can run games?

Benstein

@ajay42:
Well...I have played it on the PC and Xbox 360. So you can save your assumptions and ignorance for someone else.

There really is no appreciable difference in the gameplay/graphics of the two versions of TF2. All the things you mentioned for the PC version are nice...but you make it sound like the console version of TF2 is inferior, which couldn't be further from the truth.

I'll state it again, to get a console that can play TF2 will cost you $300-$500. A PC? $400 more at the very least. Considering the fact that there is no appreciable difference between the two versions...why wouldn't you go for the console version?

And this whole idea that keyboard/mouse control is better for FPS games is really a matter of opinion and taste. Not everyone prefers k/m control over dual analog control. You may like k/m control...and that's fine...but don't say that it is an "insta-win." More and more people are using the console control scheme and becoming quite adept with it.

Clutch414

@rainofwalrus [XBL]: Sounds like you got a faulty rig. My 360 runs Forza 2 and Mass Effect no problem. You problems are specific to your box, not the platform, me thinks.

HootieMac, The Very, Very, Very, Very, Very Angry Twins Fan

PC gaming will only die when:

*Steam bombs and Windows LIVE takes over
*Blizzard kills WoW, Battle.net and makes their next MMO and all games afterwards console-only
*Stardock starts publishing with DRM. Worse if Starforce.
*When you can play 4X and RTS games with a keyboard, not a gamepad under a "simplified" port of the same game.

Sorry, but just because you can't fool PC gamers into the same tricks that console gamers are sucked into doesn't mean PC gaming is dying. Wish you had a time machine to go back when multiplayer on the PC was its infantile stages and suggest they charge for it then, right?

Also anyone even suggesting the console version of TF2/all of the Orange Box is stuck in their own dream world.

Sober

Sullyville that is absolutely hilarious, made my day.

I think PC gaming is great, but what's killing it is the hardware, people are like PC gaming will be at its prime in 3 years when console hardware is old, funny thing is you're going to have to buy that expensive hardware.

I also find that people spend a lot of time configuring the game trying to get the most FPS out of it then actually playing the game, not to mention half the games don't actually ship until after a couple of patches.

That's just me though..

KanoBlade

I stopped upgrading my PC when the dual graphics cards were introduced. I may upgrade later this year, but my main focus of my PC is communication and internet. Thats all.

DigitalHero

@Hiero Glyph: I was merely addressing the question in a vacuum over whether TF2 PC version is a superior game vs TF2 console version. There is pretty much no comparison. You are bringing in all kinds of other factors which might change on a person to person basis but the bottom line remains that the original poster's claim that "they're just as good" is pretty far fetched at best. Its the same game with less features. How can that be "just as good"?!

ajay42

PC Gaming is a zombie.
It keeps dying then coming back.
I don't understand it.

PC GAMING IS A ZOMBIE.
AFTER YOUR BRAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIINNSSSS.

Sullyville

@ajay42: Yes, you are correct but in a totally biased way.

Is TF2 worth puchasing a PC for? Nope.
If you have a PC that can run TF2 is it worth it? Heck yeah!
If you own a console is Orange Box worth purchasing? Yes.
Is TF2 worth purchasing a PC/console to play? Sadly no.

Taking the above formula the installed user base is much greater for the consoles than it will ever be for PC gamers. As a result, the community may be better on the PC but the total sales (and profit) will be limited at best. Also, Valve would be stupid not to eventually release additional content for the console users as well.

As far as your analogy of paying $50 a year to play versus being free, I doubt you factored in the initial system cost. Given the minimum $500 difference I can play on Xbox Live for 10 years before I would ever lose any money. I do agree that if you own a gaming PC the purchase is better on the PC, but given all the external factors it just does not make sense for most gamers.

Hiero Glyph

PC gaming is dead. There may still be some great games on PC, but consoles are too dominant.

I don't play games on the PC at all anymore. I could keep my PC updated constantly and sit at a desk and play games, or I could get a 360, hook it up to my HD tv, sit on my couch and play with a wireless controller.

I know what I choose everytime.

Lou3000

@Clutch414: No offense but by saying "Also, TF2 is just as good on Xbox 360 as it is on the PC" I have to assume you've never actually played TF2 on the PC. You have infinitely more server options (# of players, etc, style of play, etc.) You have user generated maps and you have, arguably, yes better graphics and performance. Above that, you have mouse and keyboard (which is insta-win over dual analog.) And you know what else? You don't pay $50 a year for the 'privilege' of using the game you already bought.

There is NO question that TF2 is better on PC. Unless you prefer the gimped, fewer players, extra money, no user generated content version...

ajay42

Spend $2,500 on a machine to play games that will be obsolete in 2 years, or spend $400 on a console that will last 6 years? No contest here.

Blackti3

@evlyti:

Bullsh*t. M$ salvaged content from the 360 version of Gears to use as a marketing push for the PC version (which PC gamers got handed to them for free on a silver platter, I might add). Even after that, that sh*t still hasn't managed to hit an even mill.

You know when PC gaming has to depend on console port (with exclusive content) as some kind of so-called stepping stone, then it's in a bad state.

beem

What was that cliffy? I didn't hear you over Sins of a Solar Empire...

PC Gaming is a bit wonky these days, but so is the entire industry. For every great game with a combination of balance, gameplay, art, style, and all the other little factors there are a million Hannah Montana Goes to the Mall games.

Seriously though. Where is PC Gaming going? No where. Where you going? No where!

kyletothejones

That's not Cliffy B.....that's Ethan Hawk!

Knoxximus (360/PSN)

@ninja_naut: I would be curious to see how the Steam and Orange Box sales for the PC version compare to the console versions. I doubt that there is as much of an advantage for the PC as you would think.

Hiero Glyph

He's just pissed off. If Epic made better games they would sell more on the PC. It's not the gamers fault that UT3 sucked. Also, they are making most of their money on the UE3 anyway, and it is licenced to companies that make plenty of PC games.

homernoy

Pi. Ra. Cy.

DrFresh

@ninja_naut:

Yes...but how much that PC with Steam and TF2 that you bought or built cost you? I'm willing to put money on the fact that it was, at least, a wee bit more than the cost of a Xbox 360 or PS3.

Also, TF2 is just as good on Xbox 360 as it is on the PC.

Clutch414

So wait... They made UT3 shit because GoW sold well on the 360?

*Head explodes*

Well I'm glad I didn't buy UT3 then. I saw the new face of epic after getting Gears of War PC. There's been 1 patch since early november that barely fixed anything. They generally ignore most posts in their own forum now.

Well since Epic is so focused on profits let me help by not buying a single epic game from now on. I also hope Silicon Knights rips Epic a new asshole in the lawsuit.

Iron_Dragon_2.0

Steam and TF2 would beg to differ.

ninja_naut

PC gaming is too expensive and time consuming, what with all the maintenance and configuring you have to do to stay current. Most people don't want to be bothered bargain hunting for individual parts, operating systems, and the like, only to have to put it all together and get it up and running. For the savings I'd rather buy a console and be done with it. If 60 bucks is too much for a new game just wait two months from launch and you'll get it for less...just like bargain savvy PC owners do.

I love my PC but I only play older titles that it can handle. Anyone who tells you that you can get the same experience on a PC for the same cost (or less) than a current-gen console is lying to justify all the money they've spent on their rig.

PC gaming isn't dead, it's just in a new phase. Casual games and a few select MMOs are where the money and dev are right now. I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that these types of games are scaled to run on more low-end machines?

billnabors65

@tei:

And PC's don't become obsolete after 5 or so years? I'm guessing that you didn't understand what is being said here.

In three years, the top-of-the-line PC you bought 2 years ago is going to be 5 years old...and you're probably going to have to pay a few hundred dollars to upgrade its RAM and/or graphics card--at the very least--and buy or build a whole new rig. Either is way more expensive then just buying the whatever generation console is going to be out by then.

The entry costs of consoles are SUBSTANTIALLY less than a decent PC. $349 for a Premium Xbox 360 vs. $900(built by yourself)-$2000 for a decent gaming PC?

What Cliffy was saying is that the market for console games is (and will continue to be hot) because of the substanially lower cost of a console vs. a gaming rig. Consoles are much more accessible finacially for most people, and the advantages that PC's used to have have pretty much vanished. It's just good business to go where the market is.

This is coming from someone who plays console and PC games.

Clutch414

WOW! If he actually wants to sell more things on the PC, then take the god damned Games for Windows LIVE movement out of the picture. Almost all my friends have made the comment (myself including) that they would buy PC GoW if it wasn't for that stupid LIVE. I hope Steamworks kicks Microsoft's asses in this department.

Oh, another helpful point to developers wanting to sell more on the PC... DON'T JUST GIVE US SHITTY PORTS! ESPECIALLY not much later down the line that it's been released on consoles. I'm looking at YOU, Halo 2!! >:O

MagnusMastah

It sucks, but MS pretty much did this to PC owners by releasing the Xbox: PCs-as-consoles, and Sony trying to do the same with the Playstation 3. Now in most gamers' minds, console gaming is the same (or prob "better") than PC, because so many games come out on console/PC.

And since most people are sadly fine with analog for formerly PC-style games (esp the FPS), PC is irrelevant to most gamers.

Plus MS is trying to split their games btw 360 and PC, when stuff like Mass Effect used to belong on PC first.

And Games for Windows/Vista are both garbage, so they aren't getting new PC owners in.

GhaleonUnlimited

PC Gaming will never die because it is the home of all of the small, innovative developers. Corporate overlords have a tough time forcing people to buy there generic crap (see Unreal Tournament 3) on the PC.

Cheer for the death of PC gaming if you like playing only the games that the corporate overlords decide that you can play. The PC vs Console debate is exactly like the cool indy band vs Britney Speers debate. If you want to play truly original games then you better be on a PC. The barrier of entry is so much lower to develop on the PC, plus you can distribute games digitally without a publisher.

Cliffy B is only pissed cause his dumb company released a mediocre Unreal game up against Orange Box and COD4. Here is a hint, release it in March and a ton more people would buy it!

Benstein

@Hiero Glyph: Doubtful. Epic has a strong focus on console development (with a major title on 360 and PS3 each at this point) and it is in their own best interest to keep pushing the capabilities of UE3 for their own games. Crytek, however, is only interested in console development for the sake of saying, "Hey, you can use our engine on consoles too! Look!" That's the impression that developers will get, at least, and that's not going to change unless Crytek makes a game with a console as lead platform. I don't see that happening. They're too wound up in their "PC is teh ebst!" identity for that.

Toasticus

@ajay42: The problem is that you can always release a peripheral to add additional control functionality for a console. People do not need an entire QWERTY keyboard for games; they need it to type and communicate. On a console you communicate with voice chat, so the keyboard is too much and too clunky. A streamlined multi-button keyboard-esque controller would work extremely well in this case and allow for simple analog movements via a single analog mouse (similar to the nunchuck attachment for the Wii or even a rollerball varient). Besides, with a wireless controller costing $50+ someone will eventually capitalize on this and make some serious money. I would pay $100+ for WoW on the 360 with a custom controller (and cool Alliance/Horde decals all over it).

Hiero Glyph

First of all, I think Spore is going to sell something around a bajillion copies for PCs (ugh, I guess Macs too) and then this death knell for PC gaming will sound a bit silly.

PC gaming may be going through a rough patch but its here to stay. The companies need to stop pushing always for needing the absolute best processors and GPUs and instead focus on optimizing for lower end hardware. Most people's laptops are more powerful than an Xbox360 and with some clever programming that could really be drawn out. The thing no one is talking about here (probably because so many have gotten used to it, although its like getting used to the smell of rotting rat in the walls) is the horrible input that dual analog provides especially for FPS's. Its clunky, its counterintuitive and it requires aim bots to be programmed into the games to make it work because NO ONE can actually use it properly. PC gaming needs to remember that its not just about besting console graphics. Its about PC's infinitely better input devices, user freedom (to mod, for internet, etc.) and optimization.

Or maybe Microsoft will release an "Xbox PC" which will be a 360 which takes M+KB and allows for basic PC functions as well.

ajay42

Pc gaming is just in a recession, when some new ground breaking unique online games get released on pc it will probably make a come back and everyone will then complain console gaming is dieing, then a new console will be released and then everyone will go running back to consoles and say pc is dieing.... and so forth. I love pc gaming, i much perfer it over console gaming, HOWEVER one thing pc's do not offer is the ability to come in after a night out with a few mates, sit back and have a nice mindless frag fest all sat infront of the same tv. pcs are just far too expensive and everyone who says piracy isnt affecting the market is utterly wrong. its effecting it, and its having very bad conseqenses. (sorry about my spelling)

necrozim

The major difference is that there are certain restrictions when dealing with a console. This includes control style, graphical and processing power, etc. The pros are that a company can design for a single setup and optimize it to work ideally under those conditions. This is proven by how games released 3-4 years after a system launch can deliver graphics unheard of during the first 1-2 years (and this is without any major upgrades to the system specs).

The newest trend is to see what a console can and cannot do well. The RTS genre is making a strong push this year in proving that you can make a great console game even without a mouse and keyboard. RPGs are getting better on the consoles and with networks in place like PSN and Xbox Live they can deliver additional content at any time (use Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion as an example here).

The only genres left are the MMO games and the large scale multiplayer genres for the most part. Although I expect to see both of these genres fall to the console within the next 2 years due to improved networking capabilities.

So what is left for PC gaming? For one thing Blizzard is not likely to abandon their lock as the leading computer game developer. They share worldwide acclaim and can sell more copies of any game on a PC due to international success. WoW prints more money than the Nintendo Wii/DS combo and continues to increase their overall percentage of the market. I'm almost positive that Starcraft 2 will only increase this lead dramatically.

Epic and Valve are still having success on the PC and I'm sure they will deliver some innovative games in the next few years. Bungie is back on the market again and given their Macintosh roots I'd be surprised if they did not deliver something back to the community that made them successful.

The biggest problem is the total sales and production costs. Games are expensive to make currently and without a large installed base they are limiting their total revenue. By creating games for a console first and then porting them to the PC they can maximize their market share and generate the most profit with a single product. What this means is that the PC's get a gimped game with basic specs and the consoles are the ones who are optimized. If this a bad thing? Not entirely, but do not expect most companies to release a game like Crysis unless they can license the engine to make additional money. And yes, I am calling it now, The Crytek engine will be used in more games in 2 years than the Unreal engine.

Hiero Glyph

(answer: yes.)

Mega-Driven

We are near, or at, a point where our hardware is not limiting the videogame experience- it is creativity and economics that determine what is on our screens.

As far as "graphics" go, aren't we reaching a plateau of sorts, which will render hardware decisions moot?

Yes, pc hardware will continue to improve, but how much more computing power will we need? Of course, I would love to have some incredibly realistically modeled water and smoke, but the current level of "fakery" (Cod4, assassins creed, bioshock etc.) is good enough to get the job done. would these games be that much better if every molecule in them was rendered separately, at 192000 x 108000?

Mega-Driven

WOW destroyed any hopes of PC gaming had of remaining big time . The Console have taken over in video games and I am glad

ExtremeOne316

@rainofwalrus [XBL]: That's a real bummer man, I'm lucky as my launch 360 is still going strong but I think it's because I have a desk fan next to it to keep it cool. :/

That said I've definitely had more PC parts fail on me on average than console parts. Although on the plus side at least you can fix your PC without sending it to MS and then finding all your XBLAH games don't work because of the DRM. ;)

photoboy

PC gaming will not die just in the fact that nearly ever home has a PC. The "tech demos" move that hardware along significantly and don't forget a lot of that moves to the consoles.

I hope Epic stays with the consoles because UT3 was just meh.

t3rb0

I think the problem with PC Gaming is one of pride and ignorance.

PEBKAC

Nobody wants to admit they're bad at maintaining a computer's runtime environment properly. Nobody wants to feel like a complete FOOL everytime they hit the power-button.

rainofwalrus [XBL]

I think people are putting the quality of pc games under. I know for a fact that if games like World in Conflict, The Witcher, Battlefield 2 (with capabilities of 64 people on a map), were to go on consoles, they'll be instant hits.
There's also a tendency to underestimate low end PC's too. Just because you can't run full specs on a PC game doesn't mean that it would look horrible. You'll be amazed the quantity of games you'll be able to play on a $300 pc build. Considering what you get out of a PC, in terms of media and applications, $300 is money well spent.
I understand the ease of console gaming, pop in a disc and you're good to go, but there are way too many quality pc games to pass up on. way too many...

brennan

@Brian Ashcraft: Don't you think he looks like he came straight out of The Night At the Roxbury... "what is love, baby don't hurt me"

brennan

Just ask Infinity Ward, they noticed a lot of illegal copies out there of COD 4 playing with hacked copies on "free" servers.

Console is still a more controllable market and far more profitable with less illegal copies.

JakeDunn

@photoboy: I bought an Xbox360 Elite last September to play EA SKATE. The bad news? It crashes/locks-up *everytime* I play Forza2, COD3, and Viva Pinata. It's also horribly incapable of running Mass Effect properly (studdering Framerates, texture loading, etc).

Outside of SKATE and AC6, my Xbox was a waste of money.

rainofwalrus [XBL]

@ Ara I agree with you about developing for a less then leading edge computer model. I get disappointed every few years because I need to shell out money to keep current with the newest games graphics. Graphics have been a driving force for many PC users, just not enough to justify what developers are doing the the mainstream PC gamers. I also despise what MS has done with Direct X, the same Direct X we all agreed to adopt because it will unify the PC platform. Funny how right now with Vista they seem to be dividing it(like they have done in the past with XP). I do hope hardware companies will stick with OGL and allow the few developers out there that use it to stay with an open source option.

However, I disagree about Steam. I like Valve's products, if I don't always agree with Newell, and will continue to support them until they pull some shit similar to MS. With an implementation like steam it only stands to reason that at some point we will be facing the same issues that MS has imposed upon us with Valve and their delivery interface.

invictus

One word: Bittorrent.

hoos30

@Immutablyme: Oh yeah, Valve. I view them as pretty much the last hope of PC gaming. They have taken the role that was supposed to belong to Microsoft, Valve has build it's own platform on top of Windows and it's doing great for them.

ara

When Epic is creating games for the 360 they are developing for a platform that actually exists in peoples' homes. If they did the same on the PC, they would sell similar numbers.

Who will buy a game that runs on tomorrow's computers?

Has that question ever occurred to developers? When it comes to console games in two to four years publishers won't ask the questions if the graphics are ridiculously outdated in comparison to the PC. They will justify their decision with the large install base. So where are the games that cater to the large PC hardware install base? Oh right, Sim games and MMOs do that and they sell quite good on the PC.

Asbestos_Underwear

It's not the price of PC gaming, it's not the pirates either. Both of those have stayed pretty much unchanged for years. It's because Microsoft does nothing to help PC gaming, it's practically their platform and they have abandoned it. Every game Microsoft releases is released initially on Xbox and gets it's PC port year later. And when it gets that port it's Vista-only, for no good reason. They are using the games only to rise marketshare of Vista, it doesn't matter how many games they sell, as long as they sell even few copies of Vista. It's clear they that think PC gaming is under control and focus fully on Xbox platform.

ara

I think it's hilarious that they, "the people's company", are now GoW happy after shitting all over MS face and snubbing the 360, they realize now how well they were being fed. Better late than never.

okenny :)

Are we expected to take a guy's word who thinks it's a good idea to try out the Captain Jack look?

WoodyNvincible

DRM
Windows Vista
Inflated Prices

That's where PC gaming is right now. I really wish it weren't....but there it is.

Get me an affordable Linux PC title an I'll be happy. Or hell, just don't make me touch Vista or install DRM and I'll at least be happier.

realyst2k

What's in disarray is a development company trying to cash in on old-school shooters and missing the bus that Valve is driving. Last check, Steam had over 13 million subscribers.

I'm afraid we'll be taking your Future-Outlook License away from you, Cliffy.

Immutablyme

I mean FU you dude. UT3 didn't sell because it is just a better looking UT2k4 with the best mode removed. And Gears didn't sell because of all the bugs (and still no patch) plus you forced GFW live on us. PC gamers aren't stupid. I mean PC gaming must be in disarray, guess that is why COD4, HL2:EP2, Portal, TF2 and all the other Valve games did so well. Now I know why Gears hasn't been patched.

Xshinobi

I sure hope he gets that part in The Princess Bride 2!

Brian Ashcraft

People want standards to work from, not a shifting disarray of upgrades to get before they can enjoy things 'to the fullest'

I'm completely done with PC gaming, it doesn't offer me anything more than console gaming and isn't as easy-access.

edhe (xbl)

PC gaming is failing not because its a worse platform in regards to well anything, its because its a platform that although changes and improves every few months in terms of graphical prowess, it doesn't go through a console level media attracting change. Why? because the PC is basically a unified platform in terms of user interaction and development, new processor x and new graphics card x, with lots of number crunching happens so often the media isn't interested in it, and knows that the people that are interested in that are the hardcore fellows that will push their pcs to the limit so that they can crow about how powerful their pcs are and how it can handle whatever game.

Consoles at the moment are dominating because the media both in gaming and in mainstream, is totally ignoring the PC unless its about how much money/sales generic mmorpg x is getting.

Everyones caught up in the oh noes who's going to win the console crown. And while thats going on the media will continue promoting and reporting about it instead of boring pc news.

PC gaming isn't in a disarray, its just that devs know that releasing games like Lara croft version whatever or generic fps version whatever on the PC WON'T attract mass media attention to push impluse buy sales. mass media at the moment only cares about mmorpgs when it comes to pcs, and that just drives up the number of people trying/buying mmorpgs.

charsuipau

He might be right.. but just look at the history: the consoles have always followed the PC.
It will happen again. There are Sims for Wii, there are MMOs being developed for Xbox (like Age of Conan) and if you have a browser you have web games.
Soon consoles will be "in disarray" too.

ahac

And for the record, the PC market is beset by rampant piracy. Hopefully Starcraft 2 will have lots of authentication and Battlenet type checking / leader boards to avoid this.

I'd love to see a subscription based model for Starcraft 2. Basically you download it for a nominal charge, but to play online costs you $20 or £12 for 3 months. In addition to retail of course.

Eclectus

@FranUnFine: CliffyB didn't say that, Mark Rein did.

In terms of what he's saying - well I think on the PC there are only two attractive options for most developers - Steam or an MMO. The last PC game that I bought was Command & Conquer 3, and I had more fun with the 360 demo over XBox Live, I wish I'd bought that instead.

The next PC game I will buy will be Dawn Of War : Soul Storm.

Eclectus

Maybe if Epic did a better job on UT3, it wouldn't been so bad for them and to think this way.

Para

CliffyB two weeks ago: Why is everybody playing CoD4 on consoles and not on PC like I do?

CliffyB now: The PC's dead.

Well, he's surely adapting quickly.

FranUnFine

@ SaxxonPike: don't hurt them with logic though, lol. all good, cost-effective points

InEffectMode

For a minute there I thought Cliffy was auditioning for the next pirates of the Caribbean.

Silverwolf

Well, when developers like Blizzard decide to bring all of their franchises to the console, PC gaming will finally be dead. Right now the only PC game that I'm really looking forward to is Starcraft II. I don't ever see that coming to consoles.

Phlycheez

@ Diesel_Power: if people can do things they see fit, they sadly won't think of the consequence.

@ peacefuloutrage: and speaking of youtube, i love australian channel user: communitychannel

InEffectMode

@SaxxonPike: ......i hate to say it but have you had any of your console games patched yet? I have :-(

jp182

@Covert_Knight: that may be my new quote for the week

jp182

Uhh...Crysis has sold over a million worldwide and sales are still going as steady as the day it launched. There are tons of companies making tons of money on the PC, and i'm not talking about Blizzard either. Ask Valve if they think PC gaming is dying and which version of TF2 has 50,000 people playing every night (among the hundreds of thousands playing other games on steam).

I think cliffy B is just bitter because ut3 didn't sell well. It's not about the pirates because, guess what? None of them are playing ut3 either. Thats what happens when you don't listen to your fans and rehash the same product over and over for 10 years. Do you think CoD4 would have done as well if it was just an upgraded Cod3?

teamr

''I don't understand why people say UT3 and crysis didn't sell well, they did sell almsot 150 000 together!''
''But PC gaming suck and we're focusing on console gaming now, it has NOTHING to do with ugly slaes number from pc version, I swear!''
Good game Epic, we had some fun uh?

Phibius

Hey Epic, yeah, UT3 sold about two copies. You don't think that's because you didn't market it and you released it alongside CoD4 and Halo 3?

PC gaming is alive and as expensive as ever.

elevenoverzero

@Diesel_Power: It's already "back", but not in the same way it used to be. PC gaming is more or less exclusive to MMORPGs, simulation, a little RTS, and a million versions of Sudoku. Consoles are and most likely will forever be more accessible to the average consumer. Do you have to build your PS3 from parts found everywhere online? Do you have to check for spyware or scan your Xbox 360 for viruses? Do some Wii consoles get better frame rates than other Wii consoles? While I believe PC gaming to be prestige, people want something that's going to work out of the box, play the games they want without any worries, and be affordable at the same time. No complex crap like patching, windows update, adware, driver installation... I hate to admit it, but for the price you pay for a console, could you really expect to play those same games on PC for the same cost and receive an experience that is equal to or better?

On top of that, it doesn't help that PCs are marketed as "geek shit" while consoles are supposed to get you women.

SaxxonPike

@Saxboy: lol hahaha. hahah

480p, low settings and 20 fps ftw!

magically_delicious

I think were Microsoft is hurting everyone the most is with DLC.

On PC DLC didn't really exist but we saw similar things come out of Game Patches. Every month or so you would get a patch from the Developer that would fix bugs, etc. But from time to time would also include New Maps, and other items or add-ons.

Now Microsoft is not only charging you for a service that is FREE everwhere else other than on the Xbox 360 and Games for Windows Live. But they also want people to pay for DLC.

Its really retarded... But i guess its working since everybody seems to think its great paying for services that used to be free.

evlyti

PC Gaming is still alive and kicking in Europe, but it really is in disarray in North America. PC Games other than the Sims and WoW aren't doing well there at all for whatever reason.

I guess one reason is piracy. It's a big issue for PC gaming. When the number of people downloading a game via torrents during its launch week exceeds the total North American retail sales for that week, then something is very wrong (but this has been the case for several games recently, including Crysis and Call of Duty 4).

Then there is the bigger issue of competition from consoles. It's a surprise that PC gaming has survived at all during the last two years. When manufacturers release consoles that are basically gaming PCs sold at less than cost-price, then PC gaming is obviously going to struggle to compete.

Marlor

Fantastic! Brumak chapters for 360 now plox.

Enimor

@Adam: $400-$450 bought me a complete quad-core setup.

Don't confuse "decent" graphics cards with "super high-end" ones. You can get a perfectly fine 8600 GT on newegg for $75. It's all about smart shopping.

Saxboy

Cliffy.....what are you wearing?

A dark navy blue pinstripe tuxedo jacket.....shirt collar folded on the tuxedo lapel.....mean porn-stache.

I'd much rather you stick to the random design T-shirts.....

FarmboyinJapan

IS he trying to look like Cary Elwes from when he was in the Princess Bride?

TheInquisitor

PC gaming isn't dying because of pirates, it's dying because you have to pay for expensive upgrades every year or so, games are released full of bugs and nVidia/ATi seem incapable of releasing a driver that doesn't fix one game and break another. It's too much hassle when instead you could just stick a disc into a console and switch it on.

photoboy

I think Pirates are Pirates, regardless of platform....or are all those Wii/360/PS3 game ISOs you find on Torrent sites really just for "education