@Bodea: I don't see MS taking out features from BC unlike Sony. First hardware support, then PS2 game support.

astrixzero

Makes me laugh how everyone drools on about the Ps 3 and its lack of BC but lets the 360 slide with the worst ever attempt at BC to date.

Bodea

Even the 60gb emulation sucks when going through HDMI -- they might as well just scrap it. If any model did the bare min for emulation (i.e. cut out HDTV lag) it would be worth keeping. But the 60/20 gb make playing on an HDTV worse.

You could find a Saturn for $25-40 easy.

GhaleonUnlimited

@VishusBurn: Surely the Blu-Ray player is the biggest secondary feature...

VishBurn "No it's not, and don't call me Surley"

sorry had to do that one for ya!

Amen

Father ColdCuts

Clearly they are going to release a software upgrade for the 40gb model to make it PS2 BC.
BC is the best secondary feature on the system. The PS2 library is arguably the best currently on the market and Playing PS2 games on your PS3 is way more convenient.

Also I believe that they would never offer PS2 downloads on PSN until they find a way enable PS2 disc BC on the 40gb models.
Offering PS2 games for purchase on PSN while still being unable to play the discs already purchased would be seen as a betrayal in the name of avarice by many people and wouldn't be worth the potential profit when compared to the damage that would result to the PlayStation brand.

VishusBurn

@boxofthegods: "I'm confused why anyone wants BC on a PS3..."

Well, in my case it's because I have an Xbox, PS2, PS3, NES, and Wii plugged into an AV switcher and I have no room left on my TV for anything else.

PlayerX

@Father ColdCuts: "Moon sticks." lol

PlayerX

@Flawless101: I can get all this and I got a mortgage to pay! Come on it's not like I purchased it all yesterday! I moved out of home when I was 16 nearly 10 years ago, but you don't need to know that...

I'm just saying that it's not a major thing to lose. In my opinion, and i stress opinion, not many people will give a rats ass about playing PS2 games on their PS3. Many people in these comments sections might just, but we do not represent the rest of the world as we are a small demographic. we are, as this site puts it, "obsessive gamers". people are not that bothered about BC, so sit on your asses untill they put BC into the PS3, and hold that money tight, but i think it is a stupid reason not to purchase an amazing console!

I can see it as being a nice thing to have. I can't understand why they took it out!

If you can't see it from my point of view there must be something wrong going on in your heads!

Father ColdCuts

....until it stops working like mine did, and you can't find another 60GB system to replace it. Then you take the 40GB, hook the PS2 back up, and call it a day.

guar6dian

@grangerfx:
Thats what i am worrying too.

kagrra

Also "hugs 60gb Ps3" but knows his friends with 40gb may get PS2 compatibility sometime in a future firmware update.

PSN: Lp47

Not to throw cold water on the people who owns the 20GB/60GB PS3s, but what if one day the 20GB/60GB gone bonked out(dead for some reasons) And Sony says they can't repair it and only can do a exchange for a PS3 without the EEC chip in it (40Gb alike)? It will be hell for those who wants one the EEC chip for BC. IHO, just put back the god-damn chip back and solve all the issue. For returns, more great games like they use to have in PS1 and PS2, everyone will cash on it for sure.

kagrra

@JustThisGuy:

A few years ago I picked an import SS from the last production batch, so I'm looking forward to many more years of Saturn glory........

So I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't want those games to go to waste, he he

badnewsjones

I never use my BC anyways. PS2 games look like crap now.

gourmettea

@Seabass: *Misses 60GB PS3*

AntiZERO

"to make that possibles."
I only needed one thanks.

JamieA

I don't think there is much of an excuse for Sony not including full backwards compatibility with PS2 since it costs them around $75 to make a PS2.

I would not have been as lured to PS3 without the b/c, as I have 67 PS2 titles, some of which still cannot be played on the 80GB model.

I was thinking for the future, when the PS2 breaks and they don't sell them anymore. The PS3 would be a useful tool for that then.

Also, if Sony wants to do something genius they can either release the incredibly rare Ico with ShadowotC for $30 or just release it on the PSN. Come on, nothing is stopping them and with so much interest in SoTC, Ico could be a hit now. Same goes for movies that were nominated for Oscars that no one heard of that got a surge of popularity after the fact.

kylo4

The endless debate. BC is nice for convience sake, but since my PS2 is modded, there would be a lot of games I wouldn't be able to play if I got rid of it. So I'm content with my 40GB PS3.

ShinjiKinomoto

@MASOCHIST187: My thoughts for the most part, but there's a couple games I'm likely to go back and play.

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War 2, Zone of the Enders, and a couple of RPGs will likely have me looking through the bargain bin.

In other words, it's good to have a 60GB PS3. :D

DeejayKnight

@Taco Bell™: So what's stopping you from getting the 80GB model now? Or the remaining stock of the 20GB or 60GB models?

zoesch

I'm not getting a PS3 unless it has backwards compatibility. They'll either revive it or lose a sale.

Taco Bell™

They really, really gotta have a plan to emulate via software or some shit. Again, distancing yourself from one of the finest libraries in console history is like a new level of retarded.

TheIrishNinja

Some of us PS3 owners want BC cuz we aren't HUGE nerds that can crowd up their living room with a bunch of consoles.

We're just... really big nerds. :p

Livid

I say why care about the Whole Backwards compatibility. For 1 you can buy a slim ps3 for cheap now and why would you play PS2 games on your PS3 like why did you buy it then? I have a Xbox360 (in for repairs), but i never play xbox games on it. Thats what my xbox is for.

MXs219

PS3 BC was avaiable for a year and ignored.. Plenty of warning of its removal was given and it was ignored.. Then it was removed and suddenly it was a big deal. I think anyone who has a problem with it needs to shut the hell up and blame themselves. You get what you pay for.. you didnt want to pay.. you get nothing. Too bad so sad. Go buy a PS2, they're $25 used or $99 brand spankin' new.

I for one am quite happy with my 60GB.. it plays PS2 games a lot better than an Xbox.

Korbei

@Father ColdCuts: None, but then again you've failed to read posts properly and again you missed the point. It should be a standard because of how damn popular the PS2 is, the PS3 is meant to replace the PS2 right? I mean the PS3 isn't just for the gamer junkies right? So why the hell does it not have BC for the worlds most successful games console? How many millions of games is there out there? and you're telling me that the price of a PS3 and all the man hours put into it, not to mention the power of the hardware it can't have something as "simple" as BC? I shouldn't have to go to my neighbours or splash out more cash. Must be great for someone like you to have wads of cash to throw around every day, perhaps someday your parents will make you get a job.

Flawless101

At the point in time when I decide that the PS3 is ripe for the pickin', I will most definitely want backwards compatibility. Without it, no deal.

JohnnytheFuture

Whew, now I don't feel so bad about snapping up the 60gb early on. I'm a lovin' it!

jmsalal

Man i folded and just went out and bought an 80 gig. Now I sit here with crossed fingers hoping that Sony will do what Microsoft has done to an extent and release patches for an updated emulator. Its not shabby really with the software emulation, it shaved off 100 bucks on the price so yea im cool. Id rather save a 100 and be stuck with software emulation since I kept my PS2, I have no worries.

CenatorC

@MASOCHIST187: Not all "last gen" games are instantly turned into dinosaurs when a new console comes out. I still play ninja gaiden and panzer dragoon on my 360 and the graphics, sound, and gameplay are still impressive to me. I'm playing RE4 on my PS3 right now and I think its as great as current gen games. I just dont think about the console itself when I'm playing a good game.

KevinMassacre

"Gosh. Yeah, we might find a way to get PS2 titles playing on a 40 GB PS3. $7.99 per game sound good?"

Doesn't sound at all like Microsoft and Sony are cribbing off of one another's playbook on backwards compatibility there.

jallen

Software emulation exist already except sony doesn't want backward compatibility that is what I understand. The 60gig had hardware bc and the europeans had software emulation, that is why they didn't have as many BC as the US and japan 60gb version. All sony has to do is update a firmware to get bc back on all machines, but they won't do it.

nxp3

@SLOMO788: I'm with ya. I upgraded my 60GB to a 320GB WD Scorpio. Its been quiet and reliable. oddly, I have yet to pickup any PS2 games. If I can find a God of War cheap...I just might try it!

SigmundTheSeaMonster

@joelface: Spot on mate! I think most honest PS3 owners have this view also. Hell i've got racks of PS2 games, and they never see the light of day. Neither do my NES, SNES, N64, Xbox or dragon32 games lol

Father ColdCuts

@FtGF: Ha ha! exactly. I doubt this dude has a PS3. He wines about it so much. I'll take it off your hands Dragoonkin if all you do with it is play old PS2 games. I might give it my lil bro.

Father ColdCuts

backwards compatibility is great.... in theory.

i bought my 80 gb so that if i wanted to, i could still play some of my old games.

that said... i really RARELY ever get the urge to play old games...

..like i dunno, once im done with a game, im pretty much done... and from that point on... those games are basically just... trophies.

joelface

@Dragoonkin: hmmmm? well that is mighty poignant, as no other console before has ever been able to play PS2 games or PSone games. There was me thinking that Blu-Ray was an amazing plus for the console.

Oh, and the Wii plays all generations of nintendo consoles.

look at this...

[en.wikipedia.org]

new things not old things!

I grow tired of you now.

Later

Father ColdCuts

@Dragoonkin:
Dude give it up innovation is not being able to play games from 1995. I'm glad you were able to make your little bro happy but really it's cool that it's useful for you but there is plenty of new games out that it doesn't matter for most.

For me games that I missed I missed. If I keep that mind set I would still be playing snes games.

Hey man when the new Twisted Metal comes out I want to come over to your place so we can play the original!

FtGF

This is why I enjoy my 60GB. Heck, I play way more PS2 games on my PS3 than I do actual PS3 games, yet there isn't much out yet that grabs my interest as I mostly play RPGs and so on. I also have a PS2, but it is so much easier to be able to use the PS3 instead of turn on the PS2 and plug it up and so on.

I think they should keep the compatibility, yet I'm not a normal gamer by far, by American standards atleast, so my opinion isn't much. Yet, that is also why I bought a PS3 because I know the games I like will come to it.

オースティン３D

@Father ColdCuts: I...have a PS3. And Wii. And 360. And PS2. And GameCube. And Xbox.

Guess what I did when I got the Wii and PS3? Gave the GameCube and PS2 to my little brother, who loved me dearly for it.

Yet, I can still play my games!

Funny enough, one would say that the PS3 is actually MORE innovative in its backward compatibility because it is the first console to play TWO generations of previous game media. No other console does this.

Dragoonkin

@FtGF: 100% correct! I was trying to get this through to some dude last time we had this up for debate.

@Dragoonkin: Well i'm know to make the odd stupid mistake. One was to entertain your comment with my OPINION! directed at your "comment" not an answer.

Go play on your console of choice, and come back when you own a PS3 and tell me how it lacks innovation because it doesn't play PS2 games!

Father ColdCuts

@kevinski:
Hey it's a cool game but I figure most people already played it back in 2003. BC is useless for most.

FtGF

LOL pay money to get PS2 games I already have? That I could get in the bargain bin for half-price.

LAUGHABLE!

Kirkpad

If there is a way to be able to allow other people who bought the 40gb to play BC for the ps2, i bet a lot of people would jump on it. I don't think they should drop it out as they didn't drop it off for the ps2. There are some games that people may want to play. Who knows but don't drorp it SONy because people will hate you... more.

Shindokie: Kotaku's Whore

@Father ColdCuts: Er...the "@Dragoonkin" says you're answering me...or replying, at least...generally a reply has some sort of y'know...relevance to the original content.

I mean, at this point you could say "Well I ACCIDENTALLY clicked that "reply" button next to your name specifically, four times" but then you'd look even more silly.

Dragoonkin

Sure BC is important to you guys. If it was, you wouldn't have removed it in the first place.

jaymac

@boxofthegods: I like the PS3 controller, I want upscaling, it was a standard feature of the PS2.

StratfordX

@ssjmichael: yeah well everyone knows that wouldn't have happened. If the 20 gig PS3 had been 399 at launch, the PS3 would probably have a sizeable lead over the 360 by now.

StratfordX

@Dragoonkin: who said I had to answer you?

Father ColdCuts

I talked with a guy who claimed to work on the EE software...I asked him if I should wait for the new PS3 (and backwards compatibility is important to me)...he told me to get a 60gb PS3 if I was concerned.
I then bought one off of Amazon marketplace, "new", for $550 -- it was "used - like new": in good condition, but definitely used.

Adam Rock

@Father ColdCuts: Very glib, and you answered absolutely none of my points. Good job, or something.

That's the kind of witticism that cuts it in person when you forget what the person before you said in ten seconds, but not when the entire conversation is able to be read-over, with handy hyperlinks.

Dragoonkin

@Bisu:
Wouldn't hardcore gamers have already played to death PS1 and PS2 games and still own those systems? I guess you can consider me a "hardcore gamer" I own all the new systems and a high-end PC and the last thing I think about when I buy a new systems is "sweet I can play old games".

FtGF

@Bisu: probably, and the fanboys who say they will purchase one if it had BC, but have no intention of doing so really, because they love the console they own too much, and find justification in their purchase by canstantly picking at the competitors consoles.

Father ColdCuts

@Krackatoa:
its $130 i think, and its nice having 1 system to do everything.

npa189

@Dragoonkin: Innovation is not playing old games on a new console. You move forward with innovation! not backwards. the clue is in what you are commenting about (Backwards Compatability) you see?

Father ColdCuts

The backwards compatibiltiy was (is) one of the best selling points for the PS3. My friends and I always talked about how cool the PS3 was because we can play all our old games on one system. Although people may not appreciate it now, they will miss the BC when its gone forever.

I may just be speaking for hardcore/midcore gamers.

Bisu

@MASOCHIST187:

yeah you're the only one dude. Me myself I like to revist the classics

FunKrusher

Everybody who was going to buy a PS3 and REALLY cared about BC, bought it already. If you didn't because you're waiting for Jesus to join Radiohead or whatever other excuse you can come up with, you either don't care about BC or you don't want a PS3.

Thank you and goodnight.

bkN00b

@JustThisGuy: I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. Particularly about Radiant Silvergun. And Guardian Heroes. And Dragon Force.

baked ham

I see the day my 60gig will catch gobs of money on e-bay. And they said I was crazy spending $600 on that baby! CRAAAAZZZZYYYYYY! I say it'd be crazy not to have BC!

Maximus9

I was going to say "no chance," but then again we're living in a world where DNF is gearing up for release. Even so I still wouldn't count on PS3 BC making a comeback, especially considering how noncommittal Sony has been on the subject.

Toasticus

@Father ColdCuts: The idea of a console that could play the games of another console WAS an innovation. It had never been done before, thusly it was a brand new idea. Like the mouse. Like shoulder buttons. Like the god-damn wheel at one point.

So yes, I believe that "holding onto the past" as you put it is a perfectly valid innovation.

Really, I fail to see why people draw some sort of "divide" between electronic gaming and any other sort of gaming that allows them to think it's perfectly fine for one to be useless in a miniscule lifespan compared to the other. Board games like Go have been around for literal thousands of years, should we have stopped playing them just because the original board and stones wore out?

Monopoly, should the original maker have printed his few hundred copies then never made more again, because games had obviously "moved on"?

What, really, is the divide between electronic and physical gaming that creates this attitude that it's perfectly acceptable for games to "die" and never be played again, beyond the concept of forced-obsolescence to drive profit? It baffles me when people kneel before the altar of consumerism and accept the fate that for no real good reason, something of theirs will be of no use anymore long before the actual life of the physical item has been met.

This is why emulation is a completely valid concern for me, this is why companies release "classic collections" of their games. Because a game doesn't stop being of value -- either financial OR play -- just when the original hardware it runs on stops working. It just needs to move to another device that accepts it.

Dragoonkin

@Zeouterlimits: Last I checked, yup. The box with a big 60GB sticker on it was on a shelf. The price sticker was much smaller and I never went up close to inspect more.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

@Dragoonkin: Ha ha! mate! you sound silly! So your idea on innovation is to hold onto the past for as long as you can? come on. look at what you are saying. please read before you press submit comment

Father ColdCuts

@Dragoonkin: Mate, upscaling does sweet FA for the picture apart from what it sez on the tin. It makes the picture bigger. Smoothing makes the increased pixels merge slightly at their edges. All in all it doesn't do anything amazing to the final picture. do you know what Anti-Aliased means, because it doesn't do that either.

Father ColdCuts

I am worried about my original PS3 breaking, sending it in for repairs and getting back a new model that does not have backwards compatibility. My fully backwards compatibility is in the minority of PS3s now. Most have half assed or no assed BC.

grangerfx

I`m not going to buy a ps3 to play ps2 games anyways the average person owns a ps2, and if you got rid of it, you are an idiot.: )

W.C.Gold

@Father ColdCuts: "Before the SNES, name me any console that had shoulder buttons as standard. I can't see the point!"

"Before the Intellivision, name me any console that had more than one action button. Why should it be standard?"

"Before the MacOS, name me any PC that had a mouse. Who needs it!"

Yes, innovation is stupid. Let's all sit in caves. Improving things is retarded.

I mean, we press games onto these tiny polymer discs that will last approximately one-f**king-million years, why would we want to be able to play them for more than ten?

Dragoonkin

i don't know. on one hand, BC is still a big deal since the PS2 is still selling games and millions of people still have PS2 games. and at the same time, PS2 is only going to take away from the PS3s sales. it's a hard deal to figure out without losing some money on either end. no one really has the right answer since no one has really had to deal with this kind of problem. no one bring up the OG xbox. microsoft dropped the OG xbox like a hot potato the second the 360 came out.

i say sony will bring back BC sometime close to them canning the PS2. or if things start going off the rails again. for once, being the first in a console's lifespan pays off. i think i'll rock some god of war tonight and fire up some of that emotion engine goodness.

jfx316

@boxofthegods: On the same television, upscaled is going to at the very least be anti-aliased, which will look better approximately, oh, 100% of the time.

Seriously, if you have no experience with how upscaling works, grabs a SNES emulator and pretty much any ROM, blow it up to fullscreen, then turn on some of the smoothing effects and pay attention.

Dragoonkin

Panzer Dragoon Orta is enough reason to continue with backwards compatibility on Xbox 360.

kevinski

I personally couldn't see the point in BC on the Xbox360.

Father ColdCuts

I can't even play most of my PS2 library on my 80GB PS3! Not one of my SSX games runs on the 80gig. POS.

Rectangle

@Flawless101: Is al this too hard for you to fathom? Are you that broke? Knock you your neighbour's trailer and see if they will lend you theirs.

Why should it be standard? before the PS2 name me some consoles that had BC as standard.

Father ColdCuts

Thats really not the point, why should we have to pay more money for something that frankly should be standard? What if I want to play through the MGS series again before the new MGS4 comes out to refresh my memory? I have to go buy a PS2? or get out my old one the power cables TV cables etc. and then hope I can find my memory card?

Flawless101

@JustThisGuy: Heh, to be fair, no I didn't. Guess it's all right then...but 100 bucks? Nah, come on. 100 bucks?! HUNDRED? :P That system is like a decade old by now, isn't it.

@Grave: No I never had one...I had an N64 & a PS1 tho. You win this round evildoer.

Candlejack

Sorry for the double post, but upscaling games on the ps3 will not make them look better. It might in fact make them look worse depending on the resolution that they are being changed at. The textures on almost all ps2 games where designed with 480i in mind, meaning that they get blow up at higher resolutions.

boxofthegods

Hehe, I'm so glad I have a 60GB PS3. Sony can be as indecisive as they want now, it doesn't effect me.

That being said, it would probably be easier for Sony to implement BC on the 40GBs, simply because the PS3 so completely outpowers the PS2 it's not even funny.

RawSteelUT

I don't get how people are so bent on backwards compatibility, seeing how most who own this already had the PS2 and played the games already.

Regardless, can we move forward instead of always living in the past?

EnigmaNemesis

@ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy: Yeah, I don't think you spending $500 on some crazy stranger is a good idea either....
But your school has one? Eh?!?

Zeouterlimits

Well when you only have have a few quality titles for the PS3, having the amazing PS2 library is a must.

Up until the past few months, I only played PS2 games on my PS3. I sold my PS2 a while back to buy some crack to smoke (which explains buying a ps3 during launch.)

balls187

I'm confused why anyone cares about backwards compatibility on the ps3 at all. If you want to play ps2 games play them on the fucking ps2.

boxofthegods

@MASOCHIST187: I'm in your boat. The only PSone game I ever play is FF7. I remember when I got my PS2 and was stoked about BC but ended up using it a maximum of 5 times over 5 years. But I do play original Xbox titles on my 360 - mainly just because I never had a Xbox and missed on titles like Jade Empire and KoTR.

budash2

@Dimipapa: Its not so much they are just saying no soup for you buy a PS3 game instead its that even the 80 Gig still has some hardware, I believe the PS2's GPU that it uses to run games only the Emotion Engine has been emulated. The 60GB version has the Emotion Engine Chip in it still.

Konchu

@Grave: The saturn was a beast of a console! guardian heroes = Best brawler ever!

Father ColdCuts

@slomo788:

But the system already in place in existing PS3's is hardware. For software emulation, they would have to program for every title, like 360 does, which is hardly efficient and certainly would take a sizeable chunk of time to even make a dent in the PS2's immense library. I think hardware may actually be cheaper unless they are planning on limited support of the previous generation.

Strangelove

so... there is a chance for the 40g owners to have BC?

tamago007

Between the whole Blu-Ray issue and the backward compatibility issue, I am quite happy with my 60 gb version. I was put off at first, given the dire lack of games for it, but now, with real games being released and upscaling of PS2 games, I am thrilled with my PS3. I mean, there are still good PS2 games being released.

Eirias

@Shaoko: Eh? It's a damn good job that the average consumer isn't like you. (I hope you were being sarcastic)

Father ColdCuts

I hate the comments for posts like this!!

All you get is, "I'm not getting one until it Has a 120g HDD, B/C, Blu-Ray, Does my washing up, Takes me to the moon for some moon sticks and costs me $5"

Get over it fan boys!

It's a nice extra feature. I hope it comes back, but it isn't the end of the world if it doesn't. This post gives us all a bit of hope, still I doubt that half of you people who are bitching about it not having B/C would think about picking one up if it did!!

rant over!

AMEN!

Father ColdCuts

say it again GOW2 last ps2 game i will ever play....
Ohh snap Konami MGS essential pack.... errr
it's a good thing I bought early, ha so much for being an early adopter sucker.

Violater

As long as there are games like Ico, Shadow of Collosus, Space Channel Five, MGS3, the Final Fantasy series, Vagrant Story, Kingdom Hearts, etc. then I don't know why anyone wouldn't want BC as an option, especially when it's being upscaled.

I'm glad I bought the 60gb with the card inputs and hardware emulation. I never know when I'm going to hear about an obscure PS2 game that I never played. I'd like to atleast have the option to play it without having to keep my dusty old PS2 around just in case.

marty7044

@Mii: Good to know. I didn't realize that SSF has come that far. I initially gave up on early builds because I can't read Japanese, got frustrated, and sat about for a few days morosely reminiscing about my high scores in Radiant Silvergun. I guess I'll have to give it another shot. Thanks.

JustThisGuy

@Candlejack: You usually only hear comments like that from someone who never owned a Saturn. Your loss.

Grave

seriously in 2 years or so, most people won't care about BC. Also being said so many times over, how hard is it to just play with the PS2 if you want a last gen fix?

goldwings

@Krackatoa: That slim PS2 won't upscale your PS2 games, will it? Will it reduce loading times? Nope! Didn't think so! Hey, no virtual memory cards either.

Let's face it, PS3 BC was a good thing, and that's why I moved on my 60GB when I did. Removing it was absolutely foolish.

Grave

Hey why let people pick up classic ps2 games second hand for a few dollars when you can charge them double or triple that for the title as a download! Genius!

There will even be a some people who buy games twice, because they got rid of their PS2 but want to play an old title! Give the man who thought of this a raise!

bonaparte

@shimage:
Well then buddy, you're going to be waiting for a long time. See you the next gen after this gen :)

DigiMish

All I'm going to say is that I'm not buying a PS3 without backwards compatibility, and I'm not paying more than $300 for it.

shimage

@Candlejack: Have you played Radiant Silvergun or Panzer Dragoon Saga? "Love" isn't the right word. A phrase like "I would totally make beautiful children with these games and kill your entire family with no remorse just for the slim chance to get a chance at having them re-released on a current-gen system" is perhaps more appropriate.

JustThisGuy

yeah, let's gut the current consoles to drive down costs and confuse the market, then lets start adding back what we took out, that will really screw up the minds of the consumers. hmm "does this version come with xxx, or is it this version? does this version come with xyx or is it this one? is this the version with yyy that i want or is it version xxy?"

can sony ever make one decision and either be standard across the board? all 360 skus are only different by including a hard drive (20gb or 120gb) or not, that's it, simple.

sony should have just kept the 60gb launch version (the one i have) and just ate the costs for a while till manufacturing costs came down, it's obvious that it didn't take too long for that to happen.

glad i got the better version (60gb launch with full (99%) compatibility, back in december '06.

kneehighspy

@MASOCHIST187: Yes, you are the only one, I play all my past games because they're still fun and good. New games tend to bore me faster until the console is dead, that's when I see how good it really is. Most of the time anyways.

Shaoko

@JustThisGuy: Actually there's one that's called SSF or something like that which works pretty well ^.^

Mii

@JustThisGuy: Wow, 100 bucks on a Saturn. You must really love those games because that system is possibly a worse investment than a GameCube at this point.

Candlejack

Why do people care so much about Backwards Compatibility?

I mean, it costs like 70 bucks to get a slim PS2 now, if you don't already have one, you're likely a silly person. :P

Krackatoa

@emag: Off topic, but something I've been thinking about today: do you know what's still apparently impossible to emulate? The goddamn Saturn, nearly a decade after the fact. I have a broken Saturn and copies of Panzer Dragoon Saga and Radiant Silvergun collecting dust, and I refuse to shell out the $100.00 to get a used one off of ebay. I might eventually give in, though.

Earlier, someone here mentioned that the Saturn's tech specs involved elves, wishes and fairy dust; I'm beginning to think that he's right on the money.

JustThisGuy

@MASOCHIST187: Nostalgia isn't a bad thing.

Aethyr

Alas, I'm one of the few people who are disapointed by this news. I just sold my PS2 over the weekend. (I'm a broke ass college student. Don't judge me!) I thought as soon as I'll get a PS3 I'll get to play some of the PS2 games I didn't get to play. That's what I did with my 360. Is it too much to ask? I guess so. T^T

TheDollHouse

space being an issue for i would say most gamers in todays entertainment shelves, I would say that yes it is neccessary for backwards compatibility.

Jamaces

@Teiris2355: just because I mention price, it doesn't make me a fanboy dipshit. I happen to have a lot of ps2 games too, but my ps2's laser is getting weaker. I'm just saying when the price drops from all the shrinking components, I would like them to re-include bc at some point. plz mind your own business next time.

Mii

@Strangelove: Hey, it worked for Microsoft...

smitty1123

Seeing how PS2 software emulation is very CPU dependent, the Cell, if used to its full potential by Sony, should provide 60FPS emulation of any PS2 title at ease. Probably using just 3 or 4 of its SPEs.

Bring it on Sony (& Lempell).

Candlejack

@Strangelove: If it is emulation, it won't cost them anything once they get the emulation done. Development will cost money, but that amount would be dwarfed in comparison to the cost of adding a couple parts to every single PS3 made in order to make BC work.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

@Strangelove: They stopped losing on it Albert. It now costs Sony 400 bills.

slomo788

@Leonidas16:
From the same EGM interview: Peter Dille "...based on all of our research, price was the single biggest issue that people wanted to address with PS3. With an eye towards reducing the price, [backwards compatibility] was one of the attributes that was addressed. Having said that, there's still a model in the marketplace that supports it. If it's important to you, you can pay the additional $100."

PS2 software emulation = $100?

inkedgamer

Yeah, I'm sure the company is going to add more expensive features to a console they're already losing a buttload of money on. Uh-huh. And the games might be free, too, and come with a backrub.

Strangelove

@emag: Lower standards, probably. I like emus mostly because of the possibilities they suggest. The games I listed run at an average of 15 to 20 frames a second (a playable frame rate, in my opinion), with occasional severe dips and the odd glitch or two. But I have been able to finish 'em end-to-end; the only reason I was able to find the time to finish Disgaea was because I was able to take it out on business trips with me.

I am, however, a little confused about the performance you're getting on your machine. My main machine has worse specs than yours (e6550, 4 gigs, 8600GT) and I get playable frame rates. Mind you, I like tinkering with software, and I'll fiddle about with the options and plug-ins until I get something playable, but still--you should easily be able to hit 30 FPS with that setup.

JustThisGuy

@Leonidas16: $100 is not much? Also, how much did cost change? Cost was probably more important to Sony than price at that point. Now that they are breaking even on the systems, though, they may be able to start working on price again.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

@Dragoonkin: I meant after the games like MGS4 and LittleBigPlanet come out.

Stormrider

@njhardcoreguy: Can't wait for this either. A question to all Xbox Live users have any of you downloaded Halo 1 from xbox classics on XBL? If so what does it include, can you play splitscreen and online multiplayer does it run well with no slowdown and any aditions to make the purchase more worthwhile like Voice chat or something. I just want to know. If anyone has leave me a message or reply to this.

Barf#1

@Zeouterlimits: I could probably get you one, but I'm not one for that whole making $500 purchases for someone on the internet that I don't know. Last time I checked, my school still had a 60GB PS3 in the school store. Then again, I didn't check the price, so it could still be priced at $600 for all I know.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

All I have to say is when you tell the gaming public that you are big on BC then you should stand by your words. I don't understand why they pulled it in the first place. The price didn't change much when they pulled it.

Leonidas16

@MASOCHIST187: Yes. There are so many classics that I still haven't gotten around to but would love to play. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

bangbangblah

@magically_delicious: lucky so & so.
I continue to search for a 60gig...

Zeouterlimits

@Stormrider: It...has BC already...

Dragoonkin

@emag: Whoops. Missed your last post, JustThisGuy.

In any case, if you find those games perfect, you've either got a substantially more powerful computer than me (Q6600+4GB RAM+8800GTX) or much lower standards.

emag

For every game on a single machine and old stuff altogether, wait a few years and plug your PC in your HD-DVD plus a emulator.

Meh.

Wyld

i have a 60 gig. glad i got one too...

Akmed

@JustThisGuy: Have you tried it? The only notable game that's even marginably playable on PCSX2 is the first PS2 Final Fantasy title, and it's much, much worse than on an actual PS2.

Heck, the developers have gone on record to say that acceptable PS2 emulation will not be possible in the forseeable future due to the PS2's graphics architecture.

emag

@sanyo: You haven't played FFIX yet?!? Wow... I envy you... that game is fantastic to replay, but the first play-through is always the best.

PlayerX

I have a 60GB, and until last week I had used the BC function for only one game: GOW2. Then, I found a copy of the original Half Life for PS2! I bought it, wanting to play through before starting the HL2 section of Orange Box. How much money does Sony make for my purchase of a used game? None! But by having the BC in place earns a lot of goodwill from myself and others who use it.

crashlanding

@emag: Note: just an extension to my previous comment. While I'm not going to reprint the compatibility list from their website, I can state with full confidence that PCSX2 runs the following games from my collection perfectly:

Armored Core (all of 'em, and yes I love me my giant robots);

Phantom Brave and Disgaea 1 & 2;

All the Final Fantasies;

Devil May Cry 2 and 3; and

Resident Evil 4.

Some of those are pretty graphic-intensive games. Seriously: if a bunch of random dudes working on an open-source project can pull off RSX emulation decently, then I'm absolutely certain that the techheads at Sony HQ can pull it off perfectly. RSX emulation is solved; now the wrinkles (and there are quite a few) need to be ironed out.

JustThisGuy

I'm waiting for one of those puppies! As much as I want a PS3, the lack of backwards compatibility really irritates me. I have a lot of PS2 games that I love, and my PS2 isn't gonna last forever.

romBox

I think sony is still afraid that it affects the sale of ps3 games that is why it's not on the newer ps3s. I mean the software emulation is possible on all ps3, just sony doesn't want it any more....anytime soon.

nxp3

Holy crap.Flip-flop much?Make up your mind Sony.Most people seem to want BC.Hell,even I made sure to get a 60 gig,and I owned NO PS2 games at the time of my purchase.This SKU/BC mess was ridiculous months ago,now it's bordering on insane.

coktoe

@imaria:

The main reason it's been outselling the PS3 is because of the price difference between them. That's pretty much the reason the Wii has sold so well to. If the PS3 started out at $249 it'd be in first place

ssjmichael

@sanyo: All PS3s play PSone games, I believe. Pop on that FFIX already!

Saint Anima: Kotaku's Poetic Massacre

@Seabass: I heart mine as well.

wisconsinista

@Witzbold: If it wasn't for BC, I wouldn't have bought a PS3 at all. Because I sold my PS2 shortly after I bought my 360, because I didn't see the need to play "last gen" games at the time. When I was in the market for a PS3, BC was essential, because I realized that well over half the games I wanted to play just happened to be on the PS2 hahah.

baked ham

I'm not buying a PS3 until it has BC, period. If they're going to announce it, then they should stop beating around the bush and do it already.

Stormrider

Having purchased a big-ass HDTV recently, I can say that straight-up PS2 looks like utter crap on it, so I appreciate the upconversion my PS3 does to my old PS2 games...Dragon Quest VIII never looked so pretty.

Nothing can save the PS1 games, though...tried playing Parasite Eve 2 and I nearly clawed out my eyes at the giant pixels crawling across my screen. It literally was making me motion sick.

Seriously, though...I look at my 'uge PS2 library and almost every game I have plays on my 80gig PS3. If you want BC, run don't walk and buy a 80gig PS3. It works great. Especially if you have an HDTV. Ugh 480i looks nasty on a nice TV...

(...And here I promised I'd never become a videophile...)

Dragoonkin

Looks like all the people who got a 40gb are going to get PS2 software emulation this year. Nice!

I am interested in the next system they will bring to take the 80gb unit's place.

sascha23

If it wasnt for BC I wouldnt have the PS3 that I own today.

Witzbold

Bluray player > PS2

lynxij

@imaria: Wake up!

slomo788

@Sky san: The PS3 you would buy is 500 bucks. The one they have now (if you don't feel like searching, i. e. Toys R Us or something) is 400 bucks and a PS2 (again, if you don't feel like searching for cheaper) is 130 and I think at Best Buy you get 30 bucks worth of games (Metal Gear will be 30 bucks btw). I know, not as pretty, but that's still a solution for the same price. Plus you'll have the same BC as the dead 60 GB ;).

slomo788

Given that the PS2 is outperforming the PS3, you'd think this would be more of a priority.

imaria

The only thing is that I want is that for future ps2 titles to work properly on my 60gb model. :o /still buying ps2 games/

sUKi

@MASOCHIST187: You're definitely in the minority. I have a bunch of PSX games I still haven't played yet (FFIX I'm looking at you.) As far as BC goes for the PS3 I care for one reason: When my PSX and PS2 eventually die, and are hard to find--not for a long while, I imagine--I will still want to play my games. If the PS3 (or PS9) doesn't have BC, how will I play my games without having to buy them again?

sanyo

@Sky san:

Go out and buy an 80GB PlayStation 3, you'll be all set.
Just don't wait too long.

big_world

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: A friend at school had his PS2 died on him. What did he do the next day? He went to the nearest Best Buy and bought another one.

I get what Sony is doing. PS2 is still very viable, and can be a problem to a system like the Wii, because it beats it in almost every aspect (price, games, etc). But Sony is too confident in its dinosaur. PS2 will never appeal to an old person like the Wii, and a young kid will always eye the "new" Wii to the PS2, unless they drastically change the design and come out with a motion sensor add-on. The 40 GB was also a good idea, because as its success shows, many people were ready to drop BC for a "cheap" PS3. But dropping it all together? Not a good idea. I think the 80 GB was still popular and it was the most complete system. I hope for their sake they are halting it until they are completely out of the red (or the black), or that they are really working on that rumored SKU. Me? I don't really care. Got my 60 GB since Dec 06 and I will change it for nothing.

slomo788

@emag: Really? I think the guys from PCSX2 would disagree with you. It's a PC emu that has good compatibility and respectable frame rates with current-gen Core 2 processors. Mind you, it's not perfect, but if a bunch of random devs can pull off decent software-based PS2 emulation, than the people who invented the damn thing should be able to do it almost flawlessly.

JustThisGuy

@glitched: Yes, I know that. What I was saying is that I want to be able to take my PS1 game, put it in my PS3, and copy it onto my PS3 so that I can have all of my PS1 games on the hard drive. Then, whenever I want to play a PS1 game via remote play, I have all of my PS1 games to choose from rather than only ones that I downloaded from PSN or the one disc that happens to be in the PS3 (assuming it is not a PS2 or PS3 disc).

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

i personally don't see why BC is such a big deal. I almost always finish my games and never go back years later to replay them (except for fallout 2 that game was just too awesome)

TheHun

They're probably not discontinuing BC, people. They just haven't revealed the new BC model. They've stated a commitment, IIRC, to having two models. The new model is probably waiting for Dualshock controllers to be ready for the US. And it will likely have BC.

Tale

@Mii: bringing up the price makes you look like a fanboy. when you do get a ps3, get a 40gig so you can come back here and bitch some more about how your ps3 cant play ps2 games cause your a cheap ass. or when you get a 360, buy the arcade one so you can waste more money on a HDD later on. and while your at it, go buy a HD-DVD.

Teiris2355

What?! OMG!!!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!
I want to get MGS essential collection and get a PS3 and play with it.. whats going on?! so it wont play on PS3?? can anyone explain to me. whats going on??????
I have PS1 and I wanted to buy PS3 so I can play MGS essential collection with it also MGS 4
T_T whats going on.. i'm totally lost!

Sky san

it's funny this has been brought up, i thought i'd play wipeout fusion on my ps3 the other day (it's a uk 60gb) and the emulation lasted about 2 minutes before it got completely unplayable. the emulation isn't exactly perfect.

comedy

@YUYU:

You can still pick up a game console and play. You speak of the old days? In the old days when you wanted to play an NES game, you used an NES. When you wanted to play an SNES game you used an SNES. When you wanted to play an N64 game you used an N64. Don't act like this is anything new...

ssjmichael

BC is good, but I'm pretty much done with the past. I've played all my PS2 games to death - still waiting for that killer app though...

davrone

@MASOCHIST187: I sometimes think that way, but there are still lots of solid games for last gen systems that a lot of people haven't played. I have a 360, Wii, and a PC capable of running Crysis, but here I am today, playing the original God of War on my PS2 because I skipped buying it when it came out in 05'.
When I go into a gamestop or gamecrazy to pick up a current gen game I want, if I see something that I recall getting great reviews last gen in the bargain bin, I pick it up and (usually) have a blast with it.
When the time comes for me to pick up a PS3 (when enough solid games are out) I'm going to be extremely disappointed if I have to clutter up my TV center even more. It probably won't stop me from buying the system, but I imagine it'll be a huge factor for people who don't spend ludicrous amounts on gaming.

Oceaniax

Aside from great software, PS1 backwards compatibility played a major part in PS2's success. I'm sure it swayed many buyers to buy the PS2, myself included as it did with a PS3. Backwards compatibility better be important to Sony.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

@ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy:

Not sure if your aware, but you can already play any ps1 game you own on your PSP via remote play. If its in the PS3's drive, you can play it.

glitched

@MASOCHIST187: yes, but the smell of 35 ps2 games staring at me from the shelf reminds me of my first beater car I loved....stale, semi-moldy, overflowing ashtray, oil leaking onto the exhaust manifold......you know, all in a good way though.

Seabass, me too.

mydogisdexter

*sigh* What ever happened to everyone having the same version of a console without having to worry that a better, cheaper version would come out within the next few months? I really miss the days when you could just pick up a game console and play.

YUYU

IF... IF I ever get a PS3. I won't give a damn about BC. I have two PS2's for that.

Making old PS or PS2 games available on PSN is great though.

Eltigro

@MASOCHIST187: I have trouble finding enough time to play next-gen games because I'm always very keen to stick an old favourite into the Super Famicom, Dreamcast, N64, Saturn, PS1, etc. Having software emulation of the PS2 on PS3 that renders the polygons at a higher res would be awesome, I hope Sony do decide to implement a software emulator... as long as it allows me to put my old discs in the machine and they don't try to make me re-buy my old games on the PSN store.

photoboy

I'm never going to buy a ps3 if they can't make one affordable AND able to play ps2 discs. Software emu is fine, so long as they dont just try to sell me the games I already own in a different format like Nintendo. VC can suck it!

Mii

Once Sony announce a new model with PS2 BC and a DualShock 3, and make it available in Europe (preferably in a R&C + Uncharted bundle) I'll strongly consider getting a PlayStation 3. By then there'll be enough games out for me to warrant the purchase, and if they never bring BC back I'll wait another 18 months and get one when there are a TON of games I want.

Kazzahdrane

I try to tell everyone within ear shot that if they want a full bc 60gb ps3 to check Sam's Club. Seriously they have tons of them at mine.

snakepliskin

This is good news, I'll take any remote chance I get of my 40 gig ps3 playing ps2games. Though I still have to keep my ps2 because of it playing imported games, I would welcome downloadable ps2games on the ps-store. If this was ever to happen I hope they put some of the games that are hard to get/impossible to play, due to region restrictions,or just being difficult to come across. (xenosaga 3,looking your way!) Not everyone has a haxored ps2 so they can import games,and would probably appreciate this too.

Cactuar

@MASOCHIST187:

Yeah I don't really play the Wii either.

fragdurarsh

@big_world: Agreed. Backwards compatibility is sweet, but I'm more excited about PS2 on PSN. Live has Xbox games, I don't see why we can't get some PS2 classics up soon. Then again, they're pretty slow with releasing the PS1 games...

njhardcoreguy

@emag: Dang.

Well, it's not like I don't have my fat PS2 lying around. I bought the 40GB thinking I'd upgrade the HDD, and since I had a ps2, I didn't need to spend the extra money for - since the 20 and 60 GB were gone by then - inferior BC. Starting to eye the used 60 GB in the store up the road....

PlayerX

SO a co-worker buys a remaining 60GB model so his kids can play their older PS2 games. Well, he returned the 60GB after his wife (sensible one) tells him to get the 40GB AND a PS2. That way he can play his games while the kids play their PS2 games.
I think Sony is selling PS2 systems still...because no one can afford TWO 60GB PS3 in their home, but now can afford a PS3 40GB and a PS2. Yes?

SigmundTheSeaMonster

The only thing holding Sony back on full software BC of PS2 games is the GS chip. Once Sony get the RSX to handle GS calls all that left is optimization of the software.

DarkMan08

PS2 software emulation on the PlayStation 3 would be the bee's knees, no doubt about it.

What I would be even more excited about is the idea of having PS2 software available for download on the PSN, simply for the fact that hard-to-find games like Zone Of The Enders 2 and Ico might appear and give gamers an opportunity to enjoy some rare gems.

But see, that might never happen. So I'll settle for software emulation.

big_world

I think the issue with BC is a technical one really. The ps2's developers used all kinds of hardware specific tricks to get their games to play like they did, and thats got to be hard to emulate.

With thousands of ps2 games, that makes the job even harder.

mrantimatter

@Father ColdCuts: I don't think that they ever said that BC was not important. I thought they just said that for some consumers cost is more important than BC so they made a system that was cheaper but did not have BC to reach out to the market of people who wanted cheaper systems even if it meant sacrificing BC.

Since I have a 60GB and don't care too much about what the future models have, I want to know when they are going to create some kind of portable copy type thing for PS1 games so I can put my PS1 games that I already own on my hard drive without having to pay to download them so I can play them on the PSP that I would probably buy close to immediately after they announce such a service.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

@PlayerX: Who said it's just software? Emulating the RSX is not a solved problem. No one's been able to do it on even the most heavily specced PC and there's no indication that Sony has been able to do it on the PS3 (no, a throwaway comment from a PR guy about the future being open for any possibility is not sufficient).

emag

@MASOCHIST187:

Yes, some of us like more than just t3h pretty.

CaptLtrl

@SuedeGopher:

Yeah, I likely will mostly play PS3 games once I get one. Just like when I got a PS2 I stopped playing PS1 games on it. Still, it is nice to have there if I'm ever feeling the need for some God of War, GTA, etc..

I feel BC would help Sony tremendously. I mean there are many PS3 owners who are buying DMC 4, but haven't played the first three on PS2. Many of them can't do so because their PS3's don't allow that. The same with Metal Gear Solid 4, and God of War III. I know I'd want to know the backstory of each before I got them

ssjmichael

@Seabass:

Good idea. I think I'll send my 60gb PS3 one of those Wii Valentines cards :)

silkylove

I want super robust hardware accellerated (rsx) bc for the ps3 ... I can play ff9 and slow down the ps3 to a crawl during the final battles I mean a snail can zoom by before a summon spell finishes.

demonwolf

While I know I paid far too much, it makes me very glad I bought my 60 gig during the "fire sale" last year. I'm sorry, but I don't understand what the actual company line is. It seems to change week on week.

While I'm glad that PS2 compatibility is/was/at one time was included in the PS3, at some point they have to think about the future as opposed to looking to the past.

Basically, grow a set, guys.

If you're going to kill BC, then do it the way Microsoft did. Yes, there are ALWAYS going to be games that people want that won't end up being fully backwards-compatible. And yes, it can look terrible to have a gijillion systems hooked up. But I actually began respecting Sony when they (claimed they) realized that in order to make the PS3 viable for the future - a nice way to stop the bloodletting - certain aspects of the