Here's a thought for the thrid parties: stop giving the Wii crap games, and advertise the good games you do develope.

EmeraldDragon

@L_K_M: I'm not sure if you can REALLY count Mario & Sonic, considering it was a co-development project and, well, it has Mario in it.

RawSteelUT

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: I'm simply repeating what I have been told by coworkers who have worked on games for Nintendo systems in their previous jobs... that it was a fairly hostile environment compared to how it is with Sony and Microsoft.

@NateN: You may be absolutely correct; I haven't spoken with any 3rd party devs for Nintendo systems since the Gamecube.

Tzepish

@L_K_M:
I didn't mean to imply they were. I just meant that while 3rd party Wii titles will have to compete with 1st party, it's funny to hear that from Phil Harrison considering PS3 games from whomever will have to compete with Blu-ray movies to the people who just bought the PS3 because it's the best Blu-ray player.

...and like I said, those three games would sell anywhere. They're not exactly NMH or Zack & Wiki. But I really doubt it'll be crippling in any way to either of the companies.

fuchikoma

I've never understood the hate of other consoles. What has Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft every done for you except take your money? They don't care about you. It's a business and they could care less if you despise other companies, but if they do spew out rhetoric it's because their coffers are not as full as their competitors. I still live by that age old mantra, "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all."

rhinojosa

so you're saying sony's own games are crap, compared to nintendo's?

I totally agree.

guy_jin

@slomo788:

I don't really get the homo part, but I can see your point. Perhaps agreeing to disagree is best.

NeoAkira

@fuchikoma: The PS3 games aren't exactly non-mainstream, either.

L_K_M

I like my Wii, but...
The Resident Evil series, Mario & Sonic: Insert any title here, and Guitar Hero 3 would even sell well on the nGage!

But Phil should still watch himself - because as much as I like my PS3 too, it's not like Sony will sell games so their whole installed base while selling the cheapest most future proof Blu-ray player either!

fuchikoma

ah, marketing talk, how ive missed you.

anyway, the problem for wii is that all these third partys are heavily invested in 360 and ps3, using much more powerful technology all the way around. games created using 360/ps3 hardware simply cannot be ported to the wii.

these companies were probably not expecting nintendo to release a console with such inferior power. over the last generation, a game made on ps2 could be ported to gamecube and xbox without any problems. this is no longer the case, and we have games that have been in production for 2-4 years, and dont have a chance of seeing the light of day on the wii.

3rd party support will increase for the wii soon. its likely that there are games in development that only started over the last year, once it was clear that the wii was not going to be stopped. i say in 2009, late 2008, the wii will have plenty of support.

sitsalot

@TheDaftPunk: And you aints gots good grammAR homez.

The "no good games" excuse is an excuse by the xbot fanboy camp that I will never understand.

With a studio THAT HAD TO BUY STUDIOS OUT TO DEFECT.. thats not "Having good games" thats.. "FUCKING DESPERATE FOR TITLES"

Lain

Iberianpower claimed: "Some games are doing Ok on the Wii as RE4 and Umbrella and NMH etc but still far worse that the core PS3 games"

WHA? Based on what numbers?

Best-selling non-Nintendo Wii games (in millions):

Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games (Sega) 3.19
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock (RedOctane) 1.72
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition (Capcom) 1.57
Rayman Raving Rabbids (Ubisoft) 1.27
Carnival Games (Global Star Software) 1.10
Red Steel (Ubisoft) 1.04

Best-selling non-Sony PS3 games:

Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare (Activision) 2.36
Assassins Creed (Ubisoft) 2.25
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 (Konami) 1.30
FIFA 08 (EA Sports) 1.14
Need for Speed: ProStreet (EA) 1.02

How can you possibly call that far worse???

L_K_M

Phil speaks the truth.He has said very good things about Wii and Nintendo this GDC,but this is true too.Some games are doing Ok on the Wii as RE4 and Umbrella and NMH etc but still far worse that the core PS3 games even with double the userbase.Wii games that sell are social gaming and casual gaming ...an Guitar Hero III even being a good game for hardcore players is still in that category.

Iberianpower

Fortunately, nobody is buying a PS3 just for the Bluray player, huh? Either way, since there are over twice as many Wiis as PS3s, the market on the Wii still looks better than on the PS3.

L_K_M

I don't understand you people who make it seem like this is the first time any company addressed it's competitors.

tehFluffz

He's kind of right. I personally buy only nintendo's games for wii. And other stuff for ps3.

TaMs

@NeoAkira: No homo, but I think arguing with you was one of the best arguments I've had since I was a poster here, even though we started on the wrong foot. Ultimately, we're both speculating and I clearly see the flaws in my arguments (namely the percentages in terms of third-party sales). It seems like the past trend of "by Nintendo for Nintendo" is starting to shift this gen, and the Wii is clearly being more suitable to third parties (given they don't provide shovelware). But I'm still convinced third-parties will find more warmth on PS3 and 360. Two facts that you left out in your (solid, I admit) argument: PS3/360 games cost more than Wii games, so a part of the extra cost is already absorbed here, and MGS4 is a third-party exclusive. But all this is politics, and although they do have an impact on our games, let's just agree to disagree and enjoy them, eh? ;)

slomo788

Lets see Nintendo software, covers:

Cartoon like games more often than not.

Nintendo don't have any serious 'shooters' other than Metroid Prime.

Nintendo don't have any other 3D platform games other than Mario ones.

Nintendo don't really have any other successfuly racing games other than Mario Kart, which again isn't a serious racing game in the sense of GT, PGR, Burnout etc.

3rd parties CAN compete against Nintendo, why devs assume releasing a Serious racer along similar lines of GT or PGR wouldn't succeed I don't understand.

How about GTA? what does Nintendo have in its software line ups that could directly complete against GTA-like games? or even God of War games?

Rubbish 3rd parties can't compete, yes head to head against Nintendos specific software genre which aren't 'serious' in the sense of realistic car simulators or sports simulators.

But there is a market for REALISTIC car simulators, sports simulators, 3D action games, etc question is why do devs assume there isn't one on a Nintendo console? if they did bring those kind of games to a Nintendo console, I have a feeling it would do just as well as on any other console.

The fact of the matter is Devs don't put as much effort and money into producing good AAA titles for Nintendo platforms, not because it can't compete against Nintendo, but because their priority is still to pump more money into developing Xbox or Playstation versions first and foremost then do a cheap port to Nintendo, in a misguided belief that bringing the AAA franchises to a Nintendo platform wouldn't do as well...

Look at RE4 during the last gen, it SOLD 1.6 million on the gamecube and 2 million on the ps2. and this is a what 20 million console base vs a 100+ million console base?

I say the problem isn't hard competiton, the problem is devs generally just don't put priority in Nintendo console game development.

charsuipau

Hmm the dude is trying to state a point and the Wii fanboys just go all over him,. Some of these comments of Sony,(ps3aren't selling) is just not working anymore.

k4polo

@RawSteelUT:

I call bumpkiss~!

You fail to cite examples of, "well reviewed, well marketed," Wii games failing, than attribute these failures to Nintendo having so many mascots.

That argument doesn't hold any water, because it requires you to ignore factors which are likely far more substantial, in favor a factor that exists on all three platforms.

Stop making excuses for third party developers. If they cannot take the time, effort, and money, to make good games for a platform, than it's their own fault, not Nintendo's.

WolvenOne

@VakeroRokero: That's because they aren't. Seems MS has finally figured out that, instead of trying to be all things to all people, you should try to be something to a certain group of people and start having some damned profitable quarters.

RawSteelUT

Phil... how much of the PS3's install base is unreachable because they only bought the thing to play Blu-Ray movies? Hm?

Plenty of third-party titles are doing well on Wii, and considering the lower development costs (especially when considering a lt is shovelware or ports from PS2) things are going pretty well.

See sales of GH3 on Wii. Far higher than on PS3.

The games just have to be good and mass-market, and they'll sell.

Huckleberry

Oh, Sony! Will you ever stop finding ways to act like smug dicks?

ManekiNeko

wow.......

JackTretton

I'm glad Microsoft thinks the Wii isn't competition. I think even the Ps3 might give the xbox360 a catchup this year, not beat it, just catch up...

VakeroRokero

@slomo788:

I am not questioning that the third-party user base on the PS3 will grow, I'm sure it will, but what I am questioning is the implicit statement that the Wii third-party user base will not match.

In my link you said it showed that three of 16 million+ sellers on the Wii weren't first party, but the link clearly shows 5 not being first party (I originally mistakingly said 4): Red Steel, Rayman Raving Rabbids, GHIII, Resident Evil 4, And Mario and Sonic at the Olympics.

By percentage-wise: 68% of million+ sellers on Wii are first-party, while 42% on the PS3 are first-party. So first part sales aren't overwhelmingly greater on the Wii than on the PS3; a disparity of only 26%.

You asked what games are big for the Wii this year, let's compare with the PS3. GTAIV is multi-platform, so while it is a big game for the PS3 this year it is not nearly as big as MGS4. MGS4, GTAIV, Home (not a game, but still), and Little Big Planet; those are the incentives I see for buying a PS3 this year. Conversely, Mario Kart Wii, Wii Fit, and Super Smash Brothers Brawl; those are the incentives I see for buying a Wii this year. They are matched in terms of game incentives with the PS3 having a slight edge due to home. However home comes back to question how important online-gaming is. Online-gaming is very important for some games, namely FPS's, but I don't think it is that important for a majority of the million+ sellers on the Wii; Super Paper Mario, Galaxy, MP3, GHIII, MP8, etc.

Yes, while DLC is profitable for developers Wii consumers aren't willing to bite even if it was available, but I think it is counter-balanced by the fact that a Wii game costs much less to develop for than a game on the PS3. So it costs more to make a game for the PS3, but more profit can be made from DLC. It costs less to make a game for the Wii, but no money can be made off DLC. SO it really balances out looking at it that way.

Here is my biggest gripe with your argument that third-party developers have more incentive for developing for the PS3. (And this portion is a bit of speculation on my part) Third-party developers have a lot of incentive to make games Multi-platform for the PS3 and 360 when they develop a game. This means that 3rd-party games sales on the PS3 have to compete with 3rd-party games sales on the 360 as well as 1st-party sony titles. Now to the developer this shouldn't matter, because they make money off both versions (360 and PS3), but this is just to show that the third-party user base on the PS3 has more to compete with than on the Wii. For the Wii the only real competition is 1st-party Nintendo titles and the few actually GOOD 3rd party titles out for the Wii, but I think we can agree that if any developer actually hyped up a game for the Wii and advertised it they'd make the million+ sellers list just as easily as Mario & Sonic at the Olympics. Not to mention since it wouldn't cost as much to develop for as for the PS3 it would probably still end up costing them less after advertising.

Anywho, my point is this: While you are right that I was probably wrong in saying DLC is a moot point, I just don't think it's a strong enough push to have developers put the PS3 above Wii on their priority list. There's less competition for third-parties on the Wii in the respect that games on the Wii are in a category all their own (unlike the 360 and PS3 which actually compete with eachother for game sales) not to mention there is a larger overall userbase to appeal to on the Wii. Development costs are less for the Wii which might make up in turn for loss of DLC and any advertising spent on the game. Yes, the PS3 third-party user base will grow especially after MGS4 and GTAIV come out, but I do not think that Wii third-party user base will trail behind the PS3's by much, if at all. But alas I should apologize for calling you a fanboy. You are not, but I hope you can understand my point about the Wii being just as viable, if not a better option for third-party developers.

NeoAkira

Yeah, I'm done here, have fun.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

@erac3rx: Not going to happen. The PS3 price won't drop to $299 until sometime next year, and even then it would have to overcome a sizeable lead that the Wii would have amassed by then and the general bad repute of being the #3 placed console this generation and the one to avoid. Just like how Nintendo dropping the Cube's price didn't help it against the PS2.

zztopp

@Sabre_Justice: Look, I have a long name too! Yay! I'm such a trend whore!: Well, that rings true on every system. Games like Puzzle Quest, which tow the line between $80 billion dollar budget blockbuster and throwaway trash, making a game that speaks to open-minded gamers, has become an enormous hit for D3 Publisher. All I have to say is "Oneechanbara plz."

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: Then explain to me how Mario & Sonic outsells other Nintendo first-party games that DON'T have mascots. Geist, Eternal Darkness, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, they never do as well as Mario, Metroid Zelda and Pokemon, despite being equally deserving... Or many times more deserving than the tripe that was Pokemon Battle Revolution.

RawSteelUT

Thanks for making my night guys, this has been a pleasure to read. Harrison isn't far off the mark here at all, and he's not bashing anyone. A lot of people buy Nintendo consoles for the Nintendo-made games and casual/kiddie games. They're casual gamers, they're parents buying it for their kids, etc. And though they will buy crap like Carnival Games and Mario Party 8, they ain't buying Resident Evil or No More Heroes, EVER.

Another point worth mentioning is.. is it really fair to compare Wii sales to PS3 sales? Does anyone out there actually think that if people who care about a broad portfolio of games could buy a PS3 for $249 they would be buying a Wii instead? If you factor in the pricing differential, PS3 and Wii are selling at parity and 360 is selling badly. I look forward to Sony dropping the price to $299... because when that happens you'll see Wii and 360 getting outsold consistently-- not just occasionally like last week.

erac3rx

@RawSteelUT: And there's where we drop it. "No matter the quality of the game, it'll get overshadowed by games that are the same as their previous iteration just because it has Mario."

Fail, and that's the kind of statement that reads "I hate Nintendo." It couldn't be the fact that, people have a budget or anything, and would buy the proven, fun title with playability oozing from every orifice as opposed to an unproven IP. I mean, it's just GOT to be the 'it has Mario' thing.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

True it's hard to compete against Nintendo, but they're not even trying.

Secret Rings is a rare kind of Wii game that isn't entirely stellar but still perfectly playable. There is room in between the AAA titles and the shovelware. You don't need to make the best games, just make GOOD games and make sure people know about them!

Sabre_Justice: Look, I have a long name too! Yay! I'm such a trend whore!

@slomo788: From a consumer standpoint, DLC is like having to pay for stuff that could have been in the box for free, and it devalues online multiplayer when you have to buy the DLC to play with other people anymore because they all paid for the DLC.

Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60"

@biznatch: Yeah, because Wii 3rd party games routinely sell more than a million. It's not just Rayman, Guitar Hero and Resident Evil. And there aren't that many 3rd party games selling in the millions on the PS3 at all. Just keep telling yourselves that, fanboys.

And this is my real issue with Nintendo Wii. I enjoy the system for what it is: a Mario and Zelda player with the occasional RE and niche title thrown in for shits and giggles. People like you, more than even the 360 or PS3 fanboys, act like Nintendo descended from heaven to save an ailing gaming industry with their bright, innovating light. Between you lot and Iwata & Reggie's ability to make Ken Kutaragi look humble, Nintendo as a whole makes me sour.

RawSteelUT

40% of the Wii install base is still (almost) equal to 100% of the PS3's install base. All this while the Wii continues to outsell the PS3 by more than 2:1.

D00mM4r1n3

@Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60": Yeah, those shit critical hitboxes don't help much either. The Tyrant at the end of the mansion incident had me banging my head against the wall because I could SWEAR I banged the hell out of his weakness, but the damage and lack of reaction didn't show it.

@Sintariot: One person would have bought NMH had it been released at the same time as Brawl. And this is the problem. No matter the quality of the game, it'll get overshadowed by games that are the same as their previous iteration just because it has Mario.

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: I can't really comment on how Smooth Moves is more unique than the others as I didn't play either the original Mega Microgame$, Twisted, or whatever the hell the DS one was called. However, I think I've given the Wii plenty of chances.

+ Watch video

@Mr. Fap☆Fap!: I wonder how Nintendo would do in an environment where they can't sabotage 3rd parties the way they have a history of doing.

RawSteelUT

"Please, gamedevs, forget the wii, give us exclusive! Your games won't sell with them."
Wii's install base with 3rd party games is probably much bigger than entire PS3 sales anyway.

biznatch

@NeoAkira: Also, look at the link you provided. From 16 million sellers on the Wii, 3 are not first-party. From 7 on the PS3, 3 ARE first-party. See the trends I was mentioning?
P.S.: I'm speculating here, but I think the fact that PS3 owners have dodged a lot of multiplats last year was because of their sub-par quality for most of them. So I assume that since they are reaching "equilibrium" now we'll see a warmer welcome of multiplats on PS3.

slomo788

@NeoAkira: From a developer standpoint, DLC is not a moot point. It's an advantage of the other consoles compared to the Wii to make more money. Just like downloadable games. I agree that online playing is not really an incentive. And I agree that as of right now, 40% don't mean much. But how do I know PS3 third party user base will grow you ask? I already mentioned two franchises: MGS4 and GTA4. No facts and just opinion you say? An article on Kotaku here showed how pre-orders of these games are huge. What games are big on Wii this year? SSBB and Wii Fit. If you think I'm bashing the Wii for i just take a look at my comment to Ampilion.

slomo788

I like when people hate on the Wii because no matter what, the Wii is outselling all of the other consoles easily.

Harrison has a point about competing with Nintendo. Nintendo comes out with some of the best games and usually space out their games every two or three months. If you want to release a game at the same time Nintendo releases their's then you better have a game on a Resident Evil or Metal Gear level, 'cause if not, everyone is going to buy the Nintendo game. The best thing to do is release your game when Nintendo isn't releasing anything. If SSBB came out at the same time as No More Heroes do you think anyone would have bought No More Heroes? I don't.

Sintariot

Sometime I wish Nintendo would go 3rd party, just to see the epic pants shitting from these chicken-shit 3rd party developers when they realize that they now have to compete with Nintendo on their precious PS360 platforms.

I think the market has proven well enough by now that a 3rd party game, given the right amount of marketing, budget and hype, can sell just as fantastically on the Wii as on PS360.

Mr. Fap☆Fap!

@slomo788:

[www.gamersyde.com]

let's see, both the PS3 and Wii have 4 Third-Party million + sellers. With those third party games having much more competition for sales on the Wii.

"and the PS3 user-base keeps growing like it's bound to do with more and more people buying 3rd-parties "

All the while the Wii user base keeps shrinking and less and less people buy 3rd-party titles? Where is your logic? It's like you're claiming only the PS3 3rd-party sales will rise.

Uh, the Wii has online play in case you missed the memo, it's just not as widespread among games as one the PS3 and 360. DLC doesn't seem to mean shit in the face of consumers seeing as how no Nintendo games have DLC and they still sell like hotcakes. In fact, I don't think any of those 3rd-party million+ sellers on the Wii have DLC and they still managed to sell so much. So I guess your DLC argument is a moot point. While everything point you've made is baseless speculation based only on your opinion, I have actually shown proof of these "trends" that you seem to be using as evidence for your post; even though you've yet to show me an empirical proof of these trends.

I'll tell you something else. For every Wii buyer who you claim won't buy a game beyond WiiSports there is a PS3 buyer who won't use it beyond a Blu-Ray player. The difference? WiiSports gives incentive to buy other games, blu-ray movies do not. This is in fact not a post against the PS3 as I hope the PS3 gains a shitload of sales with it's big AAA titles this year, but claiming the more expensive, harder-to-develop-for, smaller-userbase system is a more viable option for third parties is ridiculous.

NeoAkira

Does anyone really think that majority of people actually look for name of the developer in the box when choosing which game to buy?

Of course Nintendo has some really popular franchises but third-parties have popular franchises too, it's only matter of bringing those popular games to Wii in such manner that the gamers are happy with the result, then you will see success on the platform.

I think that sales of SSBB are going to show that there is huge market for more traditional games within Wii userbase.

There are also many genres that are hardly never covered by Nintendo. How about making a realistic racing game for Wii? All you have to compete with are some weak ass Need for Speed ports from other consoles.

Hansel

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: I know. And I was not blaming the Wii or praising the PS3 for that. Who hates Mario and Link? Who would buy a Nintendo console without them? Not me! So frankly I don't really care about their business model. But devs do. So Phil was attracting them with that fact. Since some people here had poblems wrapping their mind around that I was trying to show them the meaning of his quote. And all of a sudden I become a fanboy lol.

slomo788

@RawSteelUT: Really? That's funny, WarioWare would be thoroughly impossible without the remote. You don't see potential because you don't WANT to see potential, I can read that much from your tone of your posts. There's tons of potential from the IR pointer alone.

@slomo788: The only problem is the price to enter. You're also comparing a system who's history is for strength via 3rd parties versus one that hasn't had good 3rd party support for years and years.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

he speaks the truth. Granted a FEW 3rd party Wii games manage to sell well, but the supposed attach rate for the console confirms what he is saying. Mario and Sonic sold well because it has Mario in the title.

Thats isn't helped by the fact that most Wii games are garbage, including some of nintendo's own. There is no excuse for games like Pokemon Battle Revolution and Mario Party 8.

fenderfuel08

@RawSteelUT: My problem with UC wasn't Wiimote imprecision, it was the tiny critical hit box. I mean, you can pump five bullets through a zombie's brain, but unless you hit the Corpus Callosum he keeps on coming? And the hit box would have been a bigger problem with an analog stick. Consider the size of the critical box on a TV, and then think about how small it would have been on a 3/4" analog stick--to say nothing of the spring resistance.

Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60"

My response to this ended up too long to post here, so it's over on my Blog:

[thesledgehammer.wordpress.com]

Short version: I think people might be reading a bit too much into what was essentially an offhand comment at a lunch meeting. In some ways he might have a point, but very few games (even first party ones) are ever going to appeal to more than 40% of yout user base anyway. Even Halo 3 (one of the must-have system sellers for the 360) has been purchased by only about 40-45% of the system's user base. Also keep in mind that a lot of third-party stuff on the Wii is shovelware that most people here are just going to completely ignore unless we're given a good reason to buy it. Mr. Harrison should also keep in mind that the fact that the PS3 is too expensive to develop shovelware for isn't necessarily a good thing.

Vexorg

@Torgan: With all the time I've been logging on Umbrella Chronicles, I have to say that I find the Wii remote to be less precise for pointing than I'd like. Also, while I liked the slower-paced RE4 on the system, I found Metroid Prime 3 to be an incredible chore, mostly due to the issues with turning speed compared to a good dual-stick setup with high sensitivity. Of course, nothing replaces mouse and keyboard, but the Wii remote just felt cumbersome in comparison to normal game pads.

RawSteelUT

@WolvenOne: Not to the extent that Nintendo's mascot titles cripple 3rd parties. Look at the January NPDs for software. Guitar Hero 3, which would sell if they made it a guitar that hooked up to your genitals, Wii Play, which only sells because it comes with a free remote, and Super Mario Galaxy, which would have sold on the Cube. It's not so much the quality of the titles (Though Nintendo makes very good games, even if they aren't anywhere near as risk-taking as their PR would have you believe), but the fact that the great majority of Nintendo's ardent base has been conditioned since the end of the SNES era to believe that 3rd party games are trash, regardless of whether they are or not. This makes a difficult environment for most 3rd parties, where games like RE4 (a Cube port, btw) that can be held up as 3rd party success stories are more the exception than the rule. In this way, the Wii's hardware sales are less impactful because the vase majority of consoles are either in the hand of Nintendo's cult members or retirees and soccer moms looking for a Wii Sports machine.

3rd parties are probably more likely to find any success at all on the Wii by thinking small and targeting specific niches. The Atlus approach, basically.

RawSteelUT

@RawSteelUT: Wiimote is better than right analog stick for aiming. (This can't be controversial.) A game that uses the Wiimote to aim (Twilight Princess, M''', etc.) might be possible using a dual analog setup, but it wouldn't be as good.

Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60"

@NeoAkira: If you feel smarter calling me a fanboy I won't stop you. We are dealing with stats and trends, a concept rather simple. If the 3rd-party attach rate stays 40% (and I assure you it will go down with SSBB) and the PS3 user-base keeps growing like it's bound to do with more and more people buying 3rd-parties (like GTA4 or MGS4: still looking at trends you see), the PS3 will prove to be a more viable console. And I also mentioned online-play and DLC earlier but I guess you missed it since the discussion was not between you and I. It takes just a keyboard and two functioning limbs to call me a fanboy but it takes a brain to make a real argument without insulting the other one.

slomo788

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: I'm sure Katamari would do especially well on the Wii if Namco did it right (I'm honestly baffled we've not seen a Katamari on the Wii. Perfect console, anyone?). I'm not really sure it's possible to do Street Fighter right on the Wii, or really any fighting game that isn't gimped, lest they use the classic controller, which likely limits the audience even more, being a non-instrument peripheral. The problem is that the system doesn't seem to have a whole lot of potential. Hell, look at Nintendo, even. The only game from them since Wii Sports that wouldn't be playable on a normal controller, Wii Fit, requires ANOTHER new controller. Nintendo has the luxury of putting out another controller/system every time they want to do something else. 3rd parties don't, unless they want to try to mimick Guitar Hero or something and fall by the wayside the way all imitators do when faced against the original.

RawSteelUT

@slomo788:

wait I don't understand. He showed the hardware sales to show how the Wii IS a viable console for third-party developers. The point being if 50% of Wii owners bought a third-party game, more than 100% of PS3 owners would have to buy the same game to equal number sold. Wii = greater potential sales than PS3 for third parties. How is the PS3 user-base growing any different from the Wii user-base growing? except maybe that the rate at which the user-base grows for the Wii is much faster than that of the PS3's. All in all you failed to make any point in your post and in the process even ignored some of Hiero Glyph's points by claiming he didn't make them. Fanboy you are.

NeoAkira

Okay, Sony is, to an extent, full of it on this one. This is largely because... ...

.....Every console has third party developers competing with first party games. Sure, it might be harder on the Nintendo, but, as far as I can tell, Ratchet and Clank, Halo, Mass Effect, Uncharted, all these titles do extraordinarily well on their respective consoles, and make it harder for third parties to get at the oxygen.

I will admit that third parties are struggling on the Wii somewhat. However, it's neither Nintendo's or the consumers fault. Sales charts have proven that people will buy third party Wii games when they're good. Those third party developers simply need to get off their butts and quit making, quick, cheap cash in games.

I mean, seriously, Nintendo spends years making some of their games. However from the time it was announced to the point it was released, people only waited a few months for NiGHT's. Sega could've taken that time and, made the game longer, brushed up the visuals a little, added some new gameplay modes. Stuff like that.

WolvenOne

@Hiero Glyph: Sorry I was at the gym, so I had to interrupt our debate for a while (yes, I have other things to do). I see you're still switching from "360 games sell better" to "Wii hardware sell better" and dodging the real point of the thread, which is that the Wii is not a viable console for third-parties. You pull out numbers, ignoring the fact that the PS3 user-base is still growing, and you call me a fanboy? If that's what you call facts your case is worse than I thought.

slomo788

@shiwasu & Torgen: Yeah, I noticed Z&W came out yesterday (on www.vurp.com).

But UT3 came out yesterday too, I still haven't finished Burnout:Paradise (just started working on the Elite license), I still haven't finished playing Oblivion (and shivering isles isn't even out yet for PS3), I still haven't purchased DMC4 (going to rent it first), I'm still having a lot of fun playing GT5:P online and my EQ2 guild (and my house-mates) are hassling me about being a slacker and not hitting level 80 yet. o.O

I'm sorta in the situation of having too much stuff to play and not enough time. I'd also like to get a PSP when Patapon comes out, but that will only multiply the problem. :\

Doshu

It's probably worth noting too that Sony currently has 0 million sellers for the PS3 that they did not publish.

Evolution Studios - First party developer
Insomniac Games - Second party developer
Naughty Dog - First party developer (Uncharted isn't listed as selling a million yet, but I'm sure it will be soon).

Meanwhile on the Wii, there are a few million sellers not published/developed by Nintendo:
Activision - Third party developer (Guitar Hero 3)
Capcom - Third party developer (RE4)
Ubisoft - Third party developer (Rabbids, Red steel*)

*Red steel sold a million? Wow, that game was AWFUL.

Of course, GH3 was going to sell like crazy wherever it was sold, but it didn't sell a million on the PS3, so it's notable.

I'd love to see a transcript of the whole speech, if one quoted line can launch 200 comments could you imagine what the whole thing would do?

NateN

Well the examples aren't good. Capcom did well with RE4 because it was one of the best AAA titles of last gen. All they did was add Wii controls and it'll be the same with Okami.

Mario and Sonic, well, even though its not by Nintendo, it might as well of been with the Nintendo charatcers it. Lasty, GH3, I mean, i don't really understand why anyone would want to buy the Wii version but i'm guessing a lot of parents have been buying it for their kids. You can't really say third parties are having a lot of success when its isolated cases.

Oh well, it doesn't really matter.

Tiberian

@RawSteelUT: Alright, after that comment, it looks like you're not even worth the time. Neeeevermindthen.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

@RawSteelUT: Does that somehow mean then, that if a good Katamari game, or a Street Fighter, or a Timesplitters or Final Fantasy or KH game were made to the Wii that they'd sell just as good, if not better then? So then what's this nonsense about 3rd parties? Their fans are going to go wherever they go, and they haven't been on a Nintendo platform in decades. You put those games on a Nintendo console, and they'd still sell.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

Okay, what's up with the "No More Heroes failed" comments? The game has been out for about a month and has sold over 100,000 copies. That's not bad for such a niche game with no advertising and it certainly isn't a "failure".

OMGitsDarkMatter

You know, a lot of third party games might be selling like crap on the Wii because so many of they are half-assed shovel ware or another minigame collection. We don't need anymore Ninjabread Man or Rayman Raving Rabbids 2.

That said, there are third party games that have sold pretty decent on the Wii. Sonic & The Secret Rings, Mario & Sonic, Resident Evil 4, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, and No More Heroes, from what I can gather, haven't been doing half bad.

OMGitsDarkMatter

Look at sales charts sometimes -- you'll be hard pressed to name 5 third party titles ( counting loaned IP ) that sold well on the Wii. That's beside the point most Wii titles are minigame drivel and shovelware. No use sugar coating it.

Mongoosekun

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: And RE has a hardcore legion behind it, much like Street Fighter. Capcom has, however, made more sales on the 360 and PS3 with DMC4, Dead Rising and the like. Then again, Capcom seems to be the only company who's just rolling in money no matter what platform they go to.

RawSteelUT

@ScottG13: Indeed. Guitar Hero 3 would have sold on a baked potato. The rest of the good 3rd-party Wii games (and no, you stupid Nintendo fanboys, there ARE good 3rd party Wii games) have to be viewed through the spectrum of much lower standards. I love how Ratchet and Clank is a failure at .87 million units sold worldwide while everyone on the Wii camp is throwing a party because Zack & Wiki made 300k worldwide.

Furthermore, Nintendo has to deal with pathetic attach rates, especially in Japan, where the system is in the lead (Sony has Europe and MS has North America).

The Wii is good for those who like the four games that Nintendo has been rehashing for a decade and those who are interested in a Wii Sports machine, but the rest of the gaming market is more interested in systems with actual games.

RawSteelUT

The reason some third party games have trouble is not because you can only market to 40% of the Wii owners(that is the most ridiculous thing I may have ever heard, where did he even get that number?). Look at probably the most successful 3rd party game on PS3 right now, Call of Duty 4. How many third parties have put the kind of work that went into that game into a Wii game? Nintendo does it with most of thier first party stuff. More invested into a game = more return. How hard is that to figure out. Then of course you need to market it a bit, can't sell it if no one knows about it. Ugh.

fearing

@KirbyMorph: But RE:UC sells nearly a million? Or Guitar Hero 3? Again, Z&W and NMH failed because they were original IPs, and had NO advertising. It would be like me creating a cure for cancer, selling it for twenty bucks a pop, and telling noone about it. It might be a reasonable thought, but I can't see anyone to blame but the third party developers who can't seem to make good games, can't market the good games they do make, or can't make their big games to include the Wii.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

@Hiero Glyph: News is ablaze? How is the news ablaze with articles of people buying PS3's, when all the articles are dependent on NPD numbers?

scottyboy218

@TheDaftPunk: Nintendo consoles are known for their excellent first-party games however, so there is a high bar to consider when developing for that console. I'm not saying that Sony or Microsoft shovel out any old crap with their logo on it, but Nintendo has been keeping some characters going for the entirety of some gamers lifespans at this point. (For example, when SMB1 came out in the US I was around 6).

However, that high bar hasn't stopped folks from shoveling out all sorts of crap for the Wii *cough*Carnival Games*cough*, so maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

@Tzepish: I was under the impression that Nintendo was doing a much better job this time around with dev. support. Cheaper dev kits, sending out free kits to the smaller companies, etc.

NateN

Well duh. GH3 sells ok because people like GH3. Outside of that, Wii 3rd party sales have been pretty sad and they'll continue to be.

Wii is a Nintendo machine. Don't forget that and you'll be ok.

ScottG13

it doesn't really matter what the marketable install base is, if they make a great game people are going to buy it, doesn't matter which developer its from, if it's good then it's gonna sell, period.

insomniac

Game sales of 3rd party games on the Wii show that they sell , on average, the amount equal to that of a system with 40% of the consoles sold by the Wii. That is where he gets the 40% number from.

It's not a shot at Nintendo (well, maybe a little one). It's just a fact. Nintendo fans buy Nintendo consoles and Nintendo games. Yes, there's some people that don't drink the koolaid and venture out into 3rd party water, but 100-200k sales for games like Zak & Wiki or No More Heroes with that many systems sold supports the facts. Flood gates of shovelware inflates the number al ittle, but it still holds that the Wii is not living up to the number of units sold in relation to 3rd parties.

KirbyMorph

@RawSteelUT: lol, great comment :P

Irenicus-the one and only

Phil Harrison: Sun rises in the east, sets in the west.

RawSteelUT

@zztopp: PS3's software sales are even worse because many use it as a blu-ray movie playing machine.

Thats a reaccuring revenue stream for Sony, and big bucks in the overall picture of things. A wii that sits with play and sports and thats it, is a dead end for nintendo.

Belain

@brello: Even I don't think we'll see “Playstation does what Nintendon't” this generation.

Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60"

Phil phil... don't sound stupid, wait too late...

I'm sick of all these lame attacks at the Wii, it is starting to get pathetic and reek of desparation. Wii is doing fine, games are selling fine, and they are number 1, time to talk about what you are going to do instead of the competition, that goes for both Sony and MS. Grow up.

Irenicus-the one and only

I fail to see how third-party developers will have to compete with first-party games. How often are BIG first-party Nintendo games released? Yeah...

TheDaftPunk

Hate all you want - it's true.

wild_world_girl

@magic_envelope: You find me a talented developer who loves this industry and also wants to develop for a blu-ray player, and I'll find Baby Jesus for you.

The fanboyism is annoying. Every system has flaws, every system has major advantages. That comment wasn't even close to on topic for this post. It was about the wii base in comparison to the PS3 base, not the features or aspects of each system.

ZeroSai

Silly trash talking. It worked so good for Sega. Oh well, they all do it.

brello

@Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.: Like this brilliant guy magic_envelope. I mean, that's certainly not contributing to discussion at all, now is it? Ass.

@Tzepish: I'd say, this generation has mostly been about two things. People writing off Nintendo's system from the start, and spending money to buy new hardware/software to develop on the more powerful systems. If you spent a few million on new software and hardware to program for a new generation of system, and then found out that your previous hardware and programs would've worked fine with the frontrunner platform this generation, what would you do? I don't think developers learn and acclimate themselves with new things, only to throw their invested millions out with the garbage when they realize their chosen system(s) aren't the ones with the largest install base.

Nintendo doesn't treat them as competition, THEY treat Nintendo that way. They look and see Nintendo's amazing numbers and for the most part, they just throw up their arms and go 'Gawwwww! This is toooo harrrrrd!'. They don't try. Could Nintendo lend them more support? Sure. But this shit ain't complicated. It's not like they're using some super-futuristic hardware that noone understands. This stuff has been around for awhile! Developers should have this stuff already down tight. They simply can't seem to pull it off, outside of a few decent gems.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

Now that Bluray won, Sony is back on playing the arrogant game, assuming that they will repeat the PS2's success with PS3

reptile168

@0bsessions:

Yeah thats EXACTLY what hes saying

*rolls eyes*

MyLittlePwny

Resident Evil is a license thats almost fail proof though. As is the Mario name... as is Guitar hero.

you know **** well what Phil meant, Mc.

MyLittlePwny

The biggest problem Phil made was actually recognizing the Wii as a competitor to the PS3. The Wii is in its own category. At this point it's clear that second place is the ONLY place either MS or Sony can hold. If anything Phil should've been up there talking about how they're starting to catch up to MS and how this year is going to be so much better for Sony.

I think Sony should focus on trying to stay on top of MS rather than pick on the guy that's way out in front.

incredibilistic

@SnakeCL:
How does it matter? Okay, this make take some time to explain...
Harrison rags on Wii software sales for third-parties.
According to my source (Wikipedia), PS3 only had two million+ selling games (both of which are first-party), whereas Wii has 18 (five of which are third-party).
OT79 says I'm wrong, listing several games. I requested proof of these games' success on the PS3 alone to see how they're doing on PS3.
Getting total sales for the game (including 360/PC) would just show that the game itself is doing well, but doesn't show the strength of the PS3 version.
It has nothing to do with the games, but how viable the PS3 is for software sales.

Does that clear things up?

BPM IIDX 8th style

Phil, your system don't got no good games, sorry bro.

TheDaftPunk

DO any of you realize that the Wii is not competing with the 360 or the PS3? Nintendo never intended to compete. They knew that most people would either buy a Wii and a PS3 or a Wii and a 360. That leaves the battling to Sony and MS.

GDC is for developers not for fanboys. He said that so that so that developers/publishers would would think twice about spending money on the Wii(instead of the PS3).

RememberThe.357

Ah 3rd parties are the fault. A lot of third party developers no matter the platform are complete and utter rubbish. The PS1 and PS2 had tons of crap games from third parties who admitted that their games were crap and the reason they were on the sony playstation was that they wouldn't have sold on a Nintendo system.

Third parties flocked to the PS1 and PS2 like flies to crap and their resulting fece offspring were eaten with glee by anti-nintendites. This same crap fly developers cannot afford to develop for the xbox 360 and PS3 so they have to go to the wii where guess what since they never advertise and have garbage games they aren't being bought like they would have on the ps1 and ps2.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

@Kirbytheslayer: In-Kirby XMB: You know, sometimes I kinda wish there were buttons to click to get rid/flag some people for their comments. Understandable, that anyone's trolling is entirely failure ridden, but it's kinda a hassle to go beatdown every single one of them, regardless of the side they currently masturbate over in their wet dreams of sales numbers, or coolness factor, or whatever stupidity pushes people to troll this place.

Ampillion lives a life much like No More Heroes.

@BPM IIDX 8th style: It is Nintendo's fault that they treat third party developers as "competitors" and thus, give them no help. Contrast this with Sony and Microsoft, who deliver plenty of help and support for third party developers. Part of the reason, if not the only reason, that Nintendo systems always have such crappy third party stuff.

Tzepish

@demonknightinuyasha:

There were some comments from Suda 51 on how well No More Heroes has sold in the states and the number of preorders in Europe. Lots just say Marvelous is feeling Marvelous and may very well green light a sequal.

Quite a number of people like Dragon Quest Swords.

Manhunt 2 you were expecting good things do you not rememebr why the first one sold? Controversy.

Bully Schloarship Edition, Geometry Wars Galaxies, Zack and Wiki, Okami all call to you. Endless Ocean and others out there are quite good as well.

Yetanotheruninspiredscreename

You find me a talented developer who loves this industry and also wants to develop for a gamecube, and I'll find you baby jesus.

magic_envelope

@somarix: If you want me to be as exact as possible the Wii has sold 21.65 million systems, compared to 10.18 for the PS3. 40% of 21.65 million is 8.66 million, or 85% of the PS3s total installed base. What does all this mean? That regardless of the accuracy of the 40% number reported or the number of systems sold, the minority of the Wii market is all but equal to the entire PS3 market.

The bottom line is that regardless of how Sony spins this information, they are far behind Nintendo. Third party developers want to make money. Not all of them have deep pockets or publishers to pay for their development fees. So which game do you develop your game for? The one with 20+ million systems sold and lower development costs or the one with 10+ million systems sold and numerous development problems being reported by some of the top publishers (EA and Capcom in particular, but you might as well count Rockstar on that list too). Do the math again. Are you sure that 100% of the PS3's installed base is interested in gaming? I think the numbers are closer to 1:1 than you would like to admit.

Hiero Glyph

@PaulHunter: You said it better than me 40 % install base 3rd party shovel-ware and 60% Nintendo 1st party. All Phil is saying but very politely. He could have said worse.

Jopan

Lemme guess: he's attacked Wii on 3rd party software and will next attack 360 on international (and for 1 month, NA) hardware sales. *sigh*

Reality? The market is supporting 3 consoles this gen. Everybody wins.

DARTH_TIGRIS

That's a high number though...

Allen750

just wanted to point out while from what ive seen and heard from friends no more heroes is a fantastic game (i plan on getting it if i can ever find a wii :( ) as with everything suda does, its commercially no good :/.

[vgchartz.com]

granted i realize that vgchartz is not 100% correct (but honestly is anyone? even the all mighty michael pratcher is wrong 40% of the time >.>)

demonknightinuyasha

So, basically, what he's saying is: "Come on over to Sony, we don't expect high standards?"

0bsessions

Perhaps third-party developers should spend more time doing QA before they release uninspired games. Wii software has thus far disappointed me way too often:

I was hyped for Manhunt 2 - game ended up sucking
I was even more psyched for NiGHTS 2 - that game turned out average at best
Other games had potential, such as Soulcalibur Legends, Dragon Quest Swords, and Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games - and ALL sucked hardcore

No wonder Wii owners only buy Nintendo software. All these third-party developers are doing with these sub-par quality games is driving more people to buy Nintendo products. I'm at the point now where I won't even dare think about buying a third-party Wii game until I read at least 5 credible game reviews. Most Wii games are THAT bad!

PaulHunter

@2NinjasTapedTogether:

Right, but Nintendo's not the issue here. Third Party developers are. Nintendo would've made a profit with GC-level sales, that doesn't mean its profitable enough for developers to make a mass exodus to the wii like some nintendo fans seem to think is inevitable.

SnakeCL

There is a bit of truth too it, everyone I know who got a Wii wanted either Mario or Smash Bros.

He's not badmouthing the Wii at all.

WolfGod

@demonknightinuyasha: I've seen the same ads, but the news is ablaze with how HD-DVD is dead so people are buying the PS3 because they feel that they did want to buy it eventually but now they are getting a value for the added money they are paying. This is great news for Sony as more systems are selling, but this on-the-fence gamer is not a huge market, nor will it ever become one.

Sony needs to go after the casual or hardcore market. Games like MGS4, GTA4, KZ2, and Resistance 2 might appeal to the hardcore audience but with nothing on the horizon except the multi-platform GTA4 this audience will not increase without also increases the 360's market. As for the casual market, only Nintendo seems to have this golden ticket, although Home and Little Big Planet may help.

Hiero Glyph

@slomo788: Cause no one can comprihende what Phil's job is it is to bash other consoles and promote his own. I'll agree with Phils' ass The wii sucks i only have 2 games for it They are MArio Galaxy and Zelda: TP the rest of the games aren't worth my time IMO.( for the exception of the vc which i have an amount invested. So you see install base sucks as the mans says the Wii is hype nontheless and a true gimmick. Sorry Nintendo. to me it is only a console that plays all the other old games. OR a PS2 with a jazzy new controller.

Jopan

@smitty1123: Would never dream of calling you a fanboy bro.

I own all 3 and a pretty damns weet gaming rig. Meet me on TF2 if you got it. check my profile for info.

Calling someone a fanboy is the cheap pathetic way out... just cause someone voices an opinion does not make he/she a fanboy.

Lain

@Hiero Glyph: Actually 40% of Wii's installed base is 90% of PS3's installed base. And from all Wii owners, most just bought it for a few nintendo games and are unlike us gamers that buy games at least twice a year.
Clean the foam off your keyboard before you type ;)

somarix

Once again, *WE* have no reason to care whether a game is first party, second party, third party, or Nth party to the Xth degree.

You expect this pointless drivel to come from fanboys, but now Suits from Sony too? Must be desperate...?

tincow

@slomo788: You ARE a fanboy. I knew it!

Trust me, anyone who has read either of our responses knows that I am anything but dense. I have provided ample feedback to your replies from multiple perspectives and you have... well, you have stated the most obvious fact in the history of Nintendo: Nintendo developed[sic] games sell more on a Nintendo platform.

The point remains that at this time the Wii is more profitable than the PS3 for third-party developers despite the better selling percentage for the PS3. You can split hairs as much as you like and hurl insults at me for wasting your time (like you have anything better to do), but Sony needs a new perspective because they are not appealing to the casual or hardcore gaming markets currently. Yes, they have gained the cheap 1080p market but that will not sell games.

Harrison needs to launch Home and get more games in the hands of the gamers. He needs more people to start playing their PS3 instead of using it to watch DVDs. They need to address the price point or offer more along with their system. Sony has the potential to make a major comeback in this generation of hardware sales, but comparing numbers to the Wii is not the way to do anything except look silly.

Hiero Glyph

I really don't see why people are getting so wiled up about this. He wasn't bashing the Wii at all. *shrugs*

libregkd

@Doshu: Similarly, I too would likewise advise you to GO GO GO, as well.

Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60"

lol

[kotaku.com]

atomos

@SnakeCL: Not that its a good thing for less than half of an installed base buying games... But considering Nintendo made a profit on nearly every system sold... I doubt they care that much.

2NinjasTapedTogether

@Doshu:
Zack & Wiki came out yesterday. GO GO GO!

shiwasu

@KM91: your an idiot, sony has more studios than the others combined, the ps3 line-up for 2008 is very impressive

Rockwallaby

@Hiero Glyph: I'm in the same boat with the Wii. About the only thing ever played on it is Wii sports when friends are over.

Personally, I think the concept of the Wii is awesome, but not enough companies are making good use of it and the stupidly long delays (I'm Australian) have stopped me from buying any new games since launch.

Doshu

holy crap did i accidently fire up joystik or kotaku

Fukanzen

@Hiero Glyph:

lately their advertising actually has been about games.

at least as far as commericals and the print ads i've seen. maybe they're targeting blue more in your particular areas advertising however from what ive seen its all about MGS 4, ratchet and clank, uncharted and things of that nature.

i would imagine with blue ray winning over HD dvd there may be a resurgence of blue ray focused advertisements pretty soon.

demonknightinuyasha

Psst...For those of you who didn't notice, this article is ban bait. Harrison might have said it, but it's still just to get you riled up.
@BPM IIDX 8th style: Excellent reply. It would be +1, but I think I'm already following you.

@silentbob343: Thanks for saying that for me. If I had said it, Witzbold would have started insulting me.

On a side note, did you notice everybody after rebutted Swean's Anti-Nintendo message, but ignored KM91's Anti-Sony one? Pointless fanboyism is stupid regardless, but it's interesting.

Kirbytheslayer: In-Kirby XMB

@Swean: Terrible console? Only to hardcore gamers. The Wii does what it does well, and that is, casual gaming. The only thing thats dissapointing was when Nintendo made the claim that the Wii was a system for ''everyone'' and yet, 1 year down the line its a console thats dominated by casual games. But hey, thats why we have the 360 and PS3 right? To fill the void.

LeLoi

Come on Mike. Those games you mentioned above would sell well even on the Vii. Anything with Mario in the title will sell and the other two are topnotch games. Look at how shitty most of the games are for the Wii. Phil is pretty much right.

Phenom88

@JN64Lover: Why is it ridiculous again? Oh right! He works for Sony, so anything he says about his competitors must be ridiculous!

slomo788

well, he's not wrong really. There have been article after article about the subject on this website. I also wasn't aware you had to be number one in the whole world before you could comment on your competition.

atomos

Oh Phillip lol nice to see you have some fight in you still, even if this statement is completely rediculous.

JN64Lover

@Hiero Glyph: I won't elaborate for the million reasons, you can figure them out yourself, unless you want to be difficult or you're too dense so I will waste my time anyways.

No one compared anything with the 360, it's a story about a Sony guy saying that Nintendo deveopled games sell more on a Nintendo platform (incredible, I know. Mind-baffling, even). Besides, Capcom just did a great job on PS3 with DMC4, and 360 is apparently a problem for Street Fighter 4, but like I said, this is just besides the point

Rock-Band (PS3+360), Halo (360), Warhawk (PS3) have all shown that online is a very important market, and any dev who wants to keep milking a popular game can just add downloadable quests (Oblivion), missions (GTA4), cars (Need for Speed), characters (Folkloe), songs, maps (I think you got my point). If it was not profitable they would have killed it long ago, period. We wouldn't have this disgusting trend of half-assed games being completed "later."

slomo788

@Swean:

The same way that people who hate on Nintendo are blinded by their own stupidity?

NeoAkira

At least the Wii is actually selling.

Jac21

Well, half the Wii market is still more than the whole PS3 market....

So....

DonWii

Meh sony will do good with recent announcements about HD DVD vs Blueray but they should stick to talking about themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if 360 fanboys had a reason to hate on both wii selling alot more because of casual gamers while sony will prolly beat 360 because its a cheap blue-ray player. In the end the only real strategy is nintendo blueray is just a tree rising from the ground and sony simply grabbed one of the branches.

Kuroh

@Lain:
GHIII?

ZinkO: The Game (the kind you just lost)

Is that the word "cancer" behind him? Could that be a secret message to me?

Sailorcancer

@KM91: lol
@Swean: lol

two fanboy comments back to back

silentbob343

@Swean: Don't hate. I have a Wii and it is very fun. I rarely play it though unless I have friends over. I think the Wii is a system for playing with other people in the same room and that limits its fun at times. A gimic will not be fun 100% of the time, but the 25% of the time you actually play it can be extremely fun.

Hiero Glyph

@Lain: Zack and Wiki, RE 4, Rayman, No More Heroes and DBZ are all Wii titles I'd say don't suck. I've heard Madden is good but sports games aren't my thing.

Oh, and before calls of fanboyism, I'm currently downloading the Conflict demo and have a gaming quality PC.

smitty1123

@Swean: It's all about the virtual console playa, without the Wii sells five units.

pABSO

@BPM IIDX 8th style:

How does it matter if a game has sold 1 million on PS3 alone?

Just because games can be easily made multi-platform doesn't preclude people from buying software.

[vgchartz.com]

Motorstorm: 2.47 million
CoD4: 2.36 Million
R:FoM: 2.35 Million
Assassin's Creed: 2.25 Million
Pro Evo: 1.30 Million
Uncharted: 1.21 Million
Fifa: 1.14 Million
NFS:PS 1.02 Million

These are all totals for the PS3 versions of the software. Some of these titles actually sold more per-owner than the 360 multiplatforms. That doesn't really matter however, since many of these games aren't found on a Wii at all.

SnakeCL

@zztopp: From Gamestats (through IGN), in the top 20 (rated, I know) games, only R:FoM, Ratchet, Uncharted and Super Stardust HD were developed by 1st-parties or close third parties. Whether you like sports, shooters or racing games, you'll always look outside what Sony offers (Madden/Fifa, CoD4/UT3, Burnout/Midnight Club); and even on the PS3, I'm almost positive GTA4 will be a bigger hit than MGS4.

slomo788

@Lain: No More Heroes.

Torgen thinks AAA means "Costs $60"

The Wii is a terrible console, people are just too blinded by Nintendo's gimmicky garbage.

Swean

Sony shouldn't talk. They barely have any exclusives.

KM91

@slomo788: Please do elaborate with your million other reasons to counter-balance the difference in bases overall. You are correct that it is not Harrison's job to attract gamers, but when a conference, such as GDC, reports news to the public you sure better be able to spin it well (read: Microsoft).

To continue the PS3 is fighting an uphill battle. Delays, additional development costs and the lowest isntalled base are all factors against the PS3 currently. The 360 shares the programming of most PCs and is fairly easy to develop using traditional methods. Only a few developers have yet come out with quality games for the PS3. I mean look at all the trouble Capcom has had developing for it (with year old titles no less!).

Lastly, downloadable content is a mute point for a couple of reasons. First they require an internet connection which does eliminate some users. Second, not everyone keeps games long enough to download additional content (yes, some of these end up being repurchased as used games but the % decreases yet again). Lastly, not everyone wants to pay for additional content and sometimes this content becomes free if you wait long enough. So although Microsoft has made a business out of charging for additional content, PSN may not be able to capitalize the same way.

Hiero Glyph

Makes a good point.

Try to name one title that IS NOT OWNED BY NINTENDO.. on the Wii.. that doesn't suck.

Lain

@zztopp: Oh, didn't realise that ND were purchased by SCEA.
That does make them first party. Insomniac (despite very close ties) aren't "technically" first party though. Although the ties are so close, they may as well be.

Doshu