@yjaved1: Actually, as I mentioned above, that's not true. For most people, Japanese income taxes are lower. In fact, the Communist Party (yes, they have one here in Japan!) recently sent around a pamphlet complaining that the low income tax rates allow the wealthy to avoid their fair share of taxes, pointing out just how low rates are compared to other developed nations.

Their point, which I actually agree with, was that the government should increase income tax rates instead of increasing the sales tax (which not only hurts the poor disproportionately, but also discourages consumption in a nation just barely out of a recession and not too keen on consuming in the first place).

erlik

I love tax season. We used to have a laptop.
Also we used to not have a hole in the wall.

I like to leave the house when father is doing taxes. I don't look forward to doing them myself in the near future, either...

rubiximus

Our state taxes can be paid at the local courthouse. I take down the forms and in 6 days the refund is in my bank account. No faceless bureaucrats here in VA, no way! I even take them Valentine's Day candy occasionally.

Chilly Hollow

ah, reading these comments make me appreciate PAYE. your taxes come out of your wages as you get payed therefore you don't have to fill out any forms or complicated process.

juliopalio

@Mr Fortitude: woah. hold on cowboy, stop. wait. don't move so fast, you ever hear the phrase "too good, to be true"?

well it's applicable right here, read it again.

what? slowly. do you see it?

no?

READ. SLOOOWLY.

YES!

I KNOW.

Its Bashcraft, doing taxes. HAPPILY.

Seriously? HAPPY TAXES?!

It's a conspiracy i tell you.

The day i find it enjoyable throwing my money to the government is the day I stop making baby man batter.

its just not right.

*shudder*

Onizuka-GTO

That is if you have kids...

yjaved1

I wouldn't be surprised if the tax system is easier in Japan than it is in the U.S., but at least the income tax is a lot cheaper in the U.S. than Japan (if that is a good thing).

yjaved1

@Canadian Impostor:

That's true, I was limiting my interpretation of 'pay to the government' to Federal income tax only.

doubtful

Japan is also a country when high speed internet takes over a month to install (if it's available in your house, that is). For everything thing unique about Japan, the exact opposite always seems to be the case as well.

francoamerica

@erlik: @hibikir: Thanks for the replies, guys. Yeah, sounds pretty weird. Doesn't sound like you're really paying much of anything though, in most people's cases. I suppose that just goes to help pay for the embassy services that you can take advantage of while residing outside the country.

baked ham

Filing taxes in the U.S. is fairly difficult. Many people have to hire an accountant and even accountants miss all the things that could save you money (like deductions) since the IRS are scary people (I can think of H&R recently). It gets even more difficult when you have your own investments or business.

Tear

For all of the criticism it gets, the US tax system is not that difficult for most people. I have used TaxCut since I got married, but that was because we bought a house and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing out on deductions. Even in our first year of marriage, I filled out all of the forms by hand. In my opinion, the main problem with our tax code is that unearned income is dramatically favored over earned income. I also think that deducting for charitable giving has also become far too complicated, and you don't have to be a cynic to believe that it has become that way so that middle class people can have their deductions denied.

kingofallcosmos

@quen: Not sarcastically, but I know sarcasm detectors don't work well on the internet. I just know all the various tax forms are sent to the government anyway by the company that paid you, so it just seems like a waste of effort, especially since most people do their taxes on a paper form and mail them in! Even freelancing is covered by its own tax form is the US (1099, it has to be sent in if the company pays you more than $500ish over the course of the year). The government in the US also knows how often you put money into your accounts, so they would be able to tell in a hurry if something isn't adding up.

Side note: There is this idea that as long as you keep your deposits under 10k the government doesn't notice, but that's actually not true. If you keep depositing money under 10k to avoid throwing up that red flag you can actually be charged with a crime. (Structuring, the wikipedia article on it is called Smurfing).

NateN

i used to do taxes with my dad all the time. he would even do other peoples taxes. twas easy as pie. i dont know why people see them as a being so complicated

bigman88zz

@doubtful: That'd be if he only paid federal taxes. Most people would include having to pay social security, etc. in what they call "taxes". About a third of my paycheck goes to the government and I don't even earn six digits.

Canadian Impostor

@erlik: To be fair, they'll presumably still provide you with embassy services (just for being a citizen) so you do get SOMETHING for it. (Sure it might not specifically be this 'you' in question who actually needs support of a US embassy, but it's the group-you-who-lives-in-foreign-countries, and you basically can't know whether or when you will need it.) I agree it's a bit weird though.

@NateN: In the UK we already have the system you're (possibly sarcastically) asking for - if you live and work here and don't have other significant income (large investments, freelance work) outside standard employment, then you don't need to fill in a tax form because the government automatically works out how much tax you owe and takes it from your salary. If you do freelance work or have other income, as well as or instead of a main job, then you do need to fill in a form and pay them the (extra) tax due at the end of each year.

quen

@baked ham: It depends on the tax treaties that are in place between the two countries, but generally, you won't have to pay taxes on income earned overseas if you reside overseas. I think the IRS has a site where you can look up the countries that have tax treaties in place with the US.

However, if you have a rental property or some other kind of income generating business in the US you'll have to pay US taxes on that income. Also, if you reside in the US for part of the year then you have to go through a more complicated tax credit process.

rawg

@crewwolfy: If you're not claiming deductions, you're either a) very young, or b) unemployed.

My wife and I are regular middle class folks. Our first joint return was shaping up to be a disaster. By our calculations, we were going to *owe* the government an extra $3,000. Even using TurboTax, I was only able to get that down to owing them $1,500.

Went to an accountant who found all sorts of deductions we hadn't thought of, and we ended up with a $3,000 refund. When I got the actual tax return, it was like a novel. It looked to be about 300 pages long. And we're nothing special; we have a house with a mortgage and home equity loan, a couple credit cards, student loans, one car, two jobs.

The problem with the US system is that what the standard form says you owe isn't really what you owe. What you owe is what that form says you owe minus all the deductions you're entitled to by law. And figuring that out is, I'm convinced, not something any average person can do. That's definitely by design, so the government can go on overcharging people who can't afford a good accountant without them even knowing.

That's also why rich people often end up paying so little in taxes, because the laws are structured in such a way that those who can afford good financial advice can take advantage of them, while those who have to do everything themselves just keep all their money in a savings account and end up paying what the standard forms tell them to pay. Current tax laws favor the rich; they're the ones least likely to actually pay what their tax bracket suggests they should.

A flat tax isn't the answer either, because the poor have less of a margin to work with. When your disposable income is only 2% of your total income, it doesn't seem fair that you should be paying the same percentage as a rich person whose disposable income is 98% of his total income. It also doesn't make economic sense, because you're asking people with less money to carry more of the burden. Common sense dictates that the opposite would work better (and indeed it does, as that's how tax laws are structured around the world).

I don't know how Japan handles deductions, if at all. I think that ideally, everybody's taxes would be lowered and deductions simply eliminated. Of course, we do have deductions for a reason, and that's to encourage certain actions that provide long-term economic benefits (such as having children). So it's really a complicated problem.

But it is a problem. If you think US tax forms and laws are simple, then you're probably paying way more than what you owe because you're not finding all your deductions or filling out all the right forms.

badasscat

Hopefully you won't be part of that pension mess.

Tepoz

@baked ham: Only if you make more than $80,000, and then only on the portion in excess of $80k.
Still, the US is the only country I've heard of that thinks you owe them just for being a citizen, even if they're providing you with no services whatsoever. It's indefensible, really.

@JRB: I'm not sure what rates you were looking at, but they seem to be wrong. A couple of years ago I was making about US$70,000, and I paid about 10%. Now I'm part time, and paying about 7% on US$40,000 or so. I think US rates for similar incomes are significantly higher, aren't they?

erlik

@Flashfire: I agree. I used to be an independent contrator with three major loans out. I had to pay taxes split between two different states (to reflect that I moved) and of course had to pay estimated taxes as well. I never used turbotax or anything. I just filled all the forms out and read the instructions. That said, the first time I filed was nerve-wracking and it took a lot of work to get all the forms and numbers I needed, but whatever.

PearceShea

@BAKED HAM

The US rule goes like this: You are supposed to pay US taxes even if you've not been in the country, but you can substract all taxes that you've paid in other countries. So if you reside in most of Europe or Japan, you'll end up reporting 0 to the US government anyway.

The whole point is to make sure rich Americans don't move to places like Monaco for tax reasons. Most of Europe doesn't have this kind of legislation and ask you to file only if you've spent around 100 days in the country on that given year. That's why many professional players that tour the world, like tennis players or F1 racers, live in places like Monaco, Gibraltar and Switzerland

hibikir

"In my country of residence I don't pay taxes, don't pay taxes, don't pay taxes, in my count-"

OK, shutting up now.

And after this our exile

While Japanese tax forms may be easy, Japanese resumes are tedious, messy nightmares.

BigDanG

@Paul: Well, I know that if you work in Japan, you have to pay taxes to Japan. But I also thought that according to American tax law, if you are a U.S. citizen, you pay taxes to the American fed, too? I could be wrong on that, but I heard it somewhere - it just may not have been true. I wonder.

baked ham

Doing taxes ain't so bad when you are getting money back and when you are still under the standard deduction. It doesn't take long at all to do the taxes with the standard deduction. I'll probably just use my tax money to pay off my credit card, though. I already have the HDTV and the PS3, so I don't need to buy anything else right now.

ceilingFANBOY: now with 100% more fanboy

@Witzbold: If "A Taxing Woman" and it's sequel was to be believed, dodging taxes was almost a national past-time in Japan. But that was in the 80s, of course.

WizarDru

@Sailorcancer:

Woot! You're totally getting your own money back over a year after you should've had it! Isn't it great!

nlatimer

@PixelPeZ: I'm amazed that in this day and age folks in the US have to file taxes. Not that our government doesn't need the money (they do!), it's just that they already know every thing about us financially, so why not just plug the data in and tell me my refund? Since every W2, 1099-SOMETHING and so on seem to get reported to the government anyway, do they really need me to fill out the forms to tell them what they already know? :-P
[RAMBLING RANT ON]
I live in Massachusetts, so when I was first doing my taxes I was coming up close to 300 in the red before I punched in my health care info. Gotta love a state that will penalize you for not having health care! I know the idea is that everyone will have health coverage and blah blah blah, but if the way they do it in my state becomes the national plan get used to waiting over a month to see a GP. The laws of supply and demand are pretty much set in stone, but since doctors aren't going to magically spring out of the woodwork when everyone has health insurance perhaps they should have thought this stupid health care plan though a bit more.

Yes, everyone should have access to health care they can afford. But people shouldn't have to go to urgent care every time they want to see a doctor either, especially at three times the cost of an office visit!
[RAMBLING RANT OFF]

NateN

It's almost that time of the year, here in Canada. It's kinda complex, especially if you dare do it alone. If you have a good accountant, then it should make things a lot easier.

IntelSilver

OMG Japan so cool! America so sucky!

Not sure what I'm missing here, but US taxes are no brain teaser. Assuming you aren't claming to terribly many deductions, in which case you should probably just hit up HR Block anyway..

crewwolfy

@baked ham: No, I don't think so, maybe if he lived in the US and worked in Japan. But the commute would make that arrangement undesirable.

Paul

@ncsbert: clearly it is better financially to pay taxes in April rather than getting a return, but there's nothing like getting a check in the mail.

Paul

So, U.S. citizens living in Japan have to pay taxes to both countries, don't they?

baked ham

@sadkermit: We've got high taxes in my country, but I feel like we get a lot from it as well. I guess it's different from place to place.

Yin

Be careful! I saw that episode of Kurosagi where the swindler wore a fake windbreaker and took down someone's tax information and then ran a total scam on them!

jarjarwang

Taxes in the US are simple until you want to keep more of your money and need to itemize and deduct things.

I love how people think that tax rebates are the government giving them money. You know, money that was already theirs, and was taken away.

USA needs to repeal the 16th amendment and implement the Fair Tax. In that order.

ncsbert

I'm still waiting to hear what happens to Milton Street... the brother of the man formerly known as 'Mayor of Philadelphia'.

He's claiming there's no law that a person has to pay wage taxes. He owes somewhere in the neighborhood of two million dollars.

Tenth

Taxes in Japan are so bloody expensive. :x

Witzbold

@jayntampa: @_@ , and without gas to power the electricity central that power up your electricity hungry devices you return to the stone age in a heartbeat...

TOCATL

@sadkermit:

Well, if you're in the US and you're making enough to pay fully 1/3 of what you make to the government you should probably quit complaining, since that means your making over $1 million dollars per year.

Your bitter woes will mostly fall on deaf ears.

doubtful

US government: making things complicated since 1776!

Sparx88

@Sorwah: I see what you did there.

NotAZombie

@Foggynotion: Food and gas are overrated (especially gas from food), it's all about high-def entertainment! Man can live by game alone! :P

jayntampa

hum.
we here at Estonia haven't used paper forms to do the taxes for years now, at least anyone who has an access to a computer. Basically you log in, all your tax info is prefilled, if you don't have any odd income or such, you just accept, or fill in a few blanks and you're done. Any refund will be transferred to your account in a few days.
Sometimes it's nice to live small country, even if our "game infrastructure" sucks balls.

PixelPeZ

You're a lucky man if you only have to file to Japan!

The Bruce

A friend of mine worked at the Seattle IRS call center for close to two years. Talk about soul-crushing. I don't think I've ever seen anyone regain their will to live as quickly as the day he learned he got hired to an actual good job with much better pay elsewhere.

Lezard

TaxCut, Gods gift to people with opposable thumbs!

I did mine Sat. TOTALLY getting over $400 back! I'm gonna get me one of them fancy hookers!

Sailorcancer

@Foggynotion: Tough dilemma: PS3 or a couple gallons of gas.

Sorwah

@Foggynotion: Those things are overrated, get a ps3. I did and I have no regrets.

Mr Fortitude

@jayntampa: I bought an HD set with my return last year too. This year maybe a PS3, or you know, I could buy gas for my car and food for my belly.

Foggynotion

Canada's got colour-coded tax forms. And money! We basically live in a Monopolian utopia up here. No gods, no kings, only Chance Cards.

Miksho

@tkshredder:

That's actually completely untrue. I looked it up. Their rates are about comparable to the US, until you get to their higher brackets (above about 85k USD), where they exceed our rates.

JRB

I'm all about using programs to fill out my taxes ... then again, other than my mortgage, I don't really have to difficult time.

This year, I used my return to buy the Samsung LN-T4671F -- I love this TV :)

jayntampa

ah the tax man. what a wonderful time of year, pay 1/3 of wages to gov, then get no refund. I stay bitter about taxes.

sadkermit

@JRB: Low enough to make you sick if you heard 'em.

tkshredder

@magic_envelope: I wonder...

baked ham

Easy taxes? Lucky!

tkshredder

So what's their rate relative to the US?

JRB

i have never felt that the US tax forms are that tricky. last year i didnt even fill out an EZ form and it was still quick and easy.

then again, im an accountant. i still dont get why people freak out about it though.

Flashfire

he who has no job files no taxes...

Just something for you to consider :)

magic_envelope

Thats it, I am moving. You guys have the coolest traditions, and the nicest government.

Mr Fortitude