Well there is one reason PC gaming will never die, and that is because PC gamers are HARDCORE...

In addition, PC gaming is NOT too expensive if your not an idiot, and if you build your own PC... It is, however, hard if your a little kid. Which is why we remain "screaming-15-year-old" free.

K-Squad! (Badass Edition)

@Covert_Knight: I like the options offered by PC as well, but those who have the time and money to invest in PC upgrades on a regular basis are a niche market. As you know, it's hard for companies to maintain substantial profits off of niche markets. (This is whay the HD format war was a big deal. The industry wanted to move forward, but consumers, in general, were hesitating. The government's trying to help the industry by making it mandatory for all broadcasts to go digital by February 2009, though that still won't be enough to make everyone go HD.) We will see the PC landscape improve in the near future, since the Microsoft and many of their partners are joining together to get PC gaming back to a consumer-friendly position. I wouldn't be surpised if we started seeing Console/PC hybrids emerge within the next two console generations. Until then, they will be working on acceptable standards to keep PCs constantly moving forward while cutting down the costs for consumers. It won't be a perfect system, but PCs will look more approachable to the average market if all goes as planned. Another way ro attract people to PC would be to make PCs compatible with the previous console generation every time a new console comes out. What if you only had the money for one console and you waited to buy another in the next generation just to find out that you could have all three of the previous consoles in one affordable box? That would be a sweet deal. Microsoft is in a good position to do this with the XBOX brand, but it would be hard to convince consumers to bite without the competitors jumping on-board. I've seen PS2 and Dreamcast discs working in PCs, but only with illegal mods. Industry supported mods would be very beneficial. Either way this goes, once PCs are living-room friendly, the lines between consoles and PCs will be erased.

Sylar

@dead_red_eyes:
Once again, you should be wise about upgrading, and honestly power supply units aren't going up crazy like they did before, so do us a favor and get out of the 90's, because apparently you're still there. And apparently I'm a troll because instead of nodding and complying with everyone here that "PC GAMING IS TOO EXPENSIVE" when I believe it is not. You buy a $700 cheapo comp and a game console for $400, when instead you could have gotten a $1,100 good comp, or even build one yourself.

PSU: Graphics cards aren't growing in terms of power usage, these units rarely needed to be upgraded.

Mobo: If you invest in a very good one from the start, then you shouldn't definitely worry for 5 years.

Case: OH NO I CANT MAKE MY OWN HOLES WHAT WILL I DOOOOO. And if you get a full tower case you REALLY shouldn't have an issue with space for a LONG time.

Look, I'm wealthy enough to afford consoles, and I do own 2 consoles and 2 pcs. I own an Xbox 360, and a Wii. I have a PC gaming desktop, and a nice simple laptop I built for myself as well. I can tell you every benefit and con there is to every type of system, but I think the biggest problem pc gaming has is the misconceptions about it. And thats where it needs to stop.

See, what I love about pc gaming, is that it grants you OPTIONS. Why did I use the word communist? Because it fits very well, everyone have identical machines, having all the same exact capabilities for the same price. See what's nice about PC gaming is that, if I'm willing to pay more, I get more. Why should my graphics suck because someone else is being cheap about it? And why should I have a case like everyone else in the world? But, if you want to be cheap you can be with pc as well, just don't expect to run everything on high settings. With console gaming, there is no such thing has "high settings." But PC's will always have options. From physical mods, to software mods, pc's will always have unlimited potential and is unique to every individual. (not to say some console gamers haven't modded their consoles, but not as much as you can do with a pc)

Covert_Knight

@Covert_Knight:
Totally there with you man. I agree if you are smart and plan your upgrades PC gaming is not that expensive. Too many posters here have no clue what they are talking about. I like the communist comment the way I look at is consoles are for the masses gaming on the cheap so everyone can play which is fine but it is a watered down experience compared to PC gaming.

What people don't understand is that the hardware is part of the hobby for PC gamers. I love playing on high-end tech. Don't get me wrong I like consoles and own all of them but they pretty much seem like little toys compared to what my PC can do.

PC gaming is not for stupid people as has been mentioned a few times. You have to know the hardware and buy smart. If that is too much work then fine ignorance is bliss I guess.

And yes you can build a rig that can play every game on max settings for $900 or less. And that is only if you want to play at max settings, medium settings on most PC games still blow away console games so you can save some money there.

FtGF

@invictus: No, I don't agree entirely. If you get used to stunning visuals, you won't want to miss them in the next game. Eye candy isn't just to look at, it helps you immerse yourself and improve the atmosphere, too.

The thing is that everything is equally as important. Narrative, graphics, gameplay and accessibility. You can't miss out on any nowadays. Which is what average games do.

Candlejack

@ErskinPig: Its going to happen in mid 2009. right now all the graphics cards that match the ones in the 360 and ps3 are getting cheaper and the ones that beat those cards are getting cheaper as well (9600gt and the ati3850) as well as many pc hardware like mo-bos and ram memory, right now the mid-range gaming pc has more raw power than the 360 and the ps3...

TOCATL

@ErskinPig: If they did that, I'd expect a lot of indie PC game devs to spring up, which imo would be a nice thing. Just look at portal, that was originally designed for a college project or something, and it was revolutionary. Only indie devs are willing to explore new territory with games because most of the big developers are too concerned with profits.

Nayl

Publishers should stop making PC games altogether, just to see what happens.

Just to see a sleeping giant within the gaming community rise up with a rage that would grab them by the throat and throttle the life out of their pathetic companies.

PCs and PC gamers are not going anywhere. Abandon us at your peril.

ErskinPig

i ran oblivion on a $350 crap box with a cdr bought 3 years ago.

oh and whats this nonsense about new power supplies?

there's this organization called the ISO that makes standards, and thus, all new video cards use the same external voltage connector.

cases follow the ATX standard.

The PC isn't just a gaming platform, but it can be used for such if you know what the hell your doing.

the most expensive upgrade thus far has been the AGP to PCI-E migration. that was about $800
new mobo, new ram (OCZ Gold Dual Channel 2gb), core2 duo, EVGA 7900GS, and a new power supply because the old one was beginning to wig out after 2 1/2 years of 24/7 operation in the crap box.

that was it, no new comp, and honestly any further upgrades are in the neighborhood of $100-200 and won't be even thought about till about 2 years from now.

moving to the new standard is expensive, but you don't need 2-3 video cards as one poster put, and if you'd stop going to porn sites and getting spyware you wouldn't need so much power. oh and ditch vista, that shit isn't for gaming. upgrade to XP if you want to game.

agp existed for close to a decade, big overhaul upgrades aren't a regular thing, its more like shopping for clothes. you don't get a new wardrobe all the damn time, you just occasionally when you have the cash and feel like it, get something for yourself.

oh and the sales numbers show COD4 console vs. PC sales are about even, its all about the quality of the game.

andrewmedina

@beem: Most PC gamers find UT3 a poor title. Has nothing to do with the state of PC gaming. Also, the demo was bad. Here is a quote from Steam this morning. Crysis will continue to sell well at a steady pace. Console titles tend to sell in great numbers right away, then trail off. Not so with the good PC titles.

"Since its release two weeks ago, Audiosurf has taken the world by storm. Hats off to Dylan Fitterer, the game's creator, for making a fun, addictive game that has all of us digging through our music collections for new music and old favorites to "ride." The critics are raving as well: GamesRadar claims Audiosurf offers "a near-religious musical gaming experience," 1UP calls it "the best possible excuse to rediscover your CD/MP3 collection," and Bit-tech.net states "Audiosurf is not just another music game - it's the logical extension of all music games, wrapped up and tailored especially for the best of all platforms, the PC."

I purchased this game and love it. If you are a console only gamer, you would never hear of it. Also, you will never know how many copies have been sold, due to to the fact it is a digital distribution. There is room for everyone here.

The Wii and 360 show that. Last gen it was pretty much PC and PS2. It seems that people want something other than what they have fail. Why? If any one of these platforms fail, it is us the consumer who suffers. Diversity is a win win for everyone.

I love my console, but I love my PC as well. Lately much more than my console. Crysis is GOTY in my opinion, and if it were released and able to run on the consoles it would be....hands down.

homernoy

@beem: Don't get me wrong, I own a PC, a Wii, a 360 and a PS3. Out of those, I'm really only please with the PC and the PS3. Wii has no games, and I'm tired of getting disk read errors with my 360. With that said, I would still pick PC gaming over PS3 gaming, any day of the week.

And yet the PS3 managed to sell over a million copies of a game by the name of Uncharted in the a few months. Match that against Crysis' a game on a platform which has the largest attach rate, which just recently managed to move a little over million units. That's pretty pathetic, don't you think? Just because you see that numbers for Sims or WoW are high, doesn't mean squat.

This is a completely biased statement and you've ignored a number of crucial factors. Firstly, Uncharted will work on any and every PS3, so the only prerequisite for buying the game, is that you own a PS3. Crysis on the other hand, requires a monster computer to play it, so the number of people able to play it, compared to the number of people able to play uncharted, is significantly lower. Despite that, it still sold a respectable number of units, and will continue to sell as people upgrade. It would be much better if you could give accurate numbers on the number of CoD4 sales for PS3 and PC. And for the record, crysis was never touted as being the savior of PC gaming. Everyone knew before release it was basically a DX10 tech demo and only for the minority of PC gamers who could run it.

Really? Rather simply telling us, care to explain how? With that said, how does that negate the current downward spiral of PC gaming? You're clearly in denial. If UT3 managing to outsell on PS3 vs PC doesn't tell you anything, then I don't know what will.

Hardware developers such as nvidia and intel make most of their gaming related profits from PC gaming. Because of the "bleeding edge" nature of PC gaming, the upgrade cycle is significantly shorter than that of consoles. The hardware developers are constantly creating new hardware to run the latest games, and that hardware is always selling, giving them a steady income. If PC gaming died, there would be no incentive for them to develop the new hardware, because no-one would buy it. As a result, come the time when the next generation due, hardware wont have progressed, because no-one will have been buying it. As a result, you will either get 1st party hardware in consoles, which sucks, or no next gen, which sucks.

Finally, when consoles get a game equal to the popularity of WoW, The Sims or Counterstrike, then you can talk about the downward spiral of PC gaming, but not until then.

Nayl

The problem isn't really the cost it's the fact game get shipped in a broken state and don't run well if at all.

You know, the stuff that PC developers are bringing to console gaming and one of those things hurting console gaming.

chiefpoopingpants

@beem: Well UT3 on the PC and on the PS3 is pretty much the same game, hell, even the loading screens are ripped from the PS3 version. If I hadn't already bought it, I would not buy it out of protest.

mescalineeyes

@Nayl:

"Saying "PC gaming is too expensive" is just an excuse console gamers come up with to justify dropping £300 on phail machines that are already massively obsolete and prone to hardware failures."

The same can be said regarding PC gamers who refuse to embrace consoles but will gladly play their 360 ports (ala Gears) with a controller in spite of numerous crashes for the port/s.

"I've been hearing people claim that PC gaming is dead since about 1998, and yet last gen it still sold more games than the Xbox and the Gamecube. I saw a study on it where they worked out that PC game sales are around the same mark as a console that sells around 50-60 million units and has an average attach rate."

And yet the PS3 (system currently with the smallest attach this gen) managed to sell over a million copies of a game by the name of Uncharted in the a few months. Match that against Crysis' (game touted as the saviour of PC gaming) a game on a platform which has the largest attach rate, which just recently managed to move a little over million units (when both titles were released around the same time). That's pretty pathetic, don't you think? Just because you see that numbers for Sims or WoW are high, doesn't mean squat.

"Without PC gaming, hardware manufacturers would go out of business, hardware wouldn't improve and the entire games industry would grind to a halt."

Really? Rather simply telling us, care to explain how? With that said, how does that negate the current downward spiral of PC gaming? You're clearly in denial. If UT3 managing to outsell on PS3 vs PC doesn't tell you anything, then I don't know what will.

beem

@invictus:

Well said.

dead_red_eyes

@homernoy: That came out mean spirited. Sorry slomo, had a rough one last night.

homernoy

Here in Britain you can easily get a high end rig for around £500-600 ($1000-1200) if you know where to shop. That rig will last you 3+ years unless you absolutely must play games on the highest settings, in which case you can't complain about the cost of upgrading. Saying "PC gaming is too expensive" is just an excuse console gamers come up with to justify dropping £300 on phail machines that are already massively obsolete and prone to hardware failures.

The pros of PC gaming, the online, the customisability, the mod community and much much more, far outweigh the cons, the shorter life span, the....the...no wait thats it. I've been hearing people claim that PC gaming is dead since about 1998, and yet last gen it still sold more games than the Xbox and the Gamecube. I saw a study on it where they worked out that PC game sales are around the same mark as a console that sells around 50-60 million units and has an average attach rate. PC gaming is fine, and what a lot of console gamers don't realise, is that if there was no PC gaming, there would be no console gaming. Without PC gaming, hardware manufacturers would go out of business, hardware wouldn't improve and the entire games industry would grind to a halt.

Nayl

@cybereality:

You can pay that much if you want to, however, as was seen recently with the Dell 630 at $1250 it doesn't take anywhere near $2500 to get a good machine. Take a look at www.ibuypower.com for similar price points and configurations. You can buy a very good gaming machine for around $1000-1200 USD.

Now consider that most of us need a computer for things like work and school and that you can get a machine to handle those task for around $500-700. Add the cost of a game console (around $400-500) to that cost and you're right there on a PC.

Game consoles are good for what they do and the Wii has certainly brought a breath of fresh air to the console gaming world but personally if I can only have one or the other I'll go PC.

cowboyshootist

Okay, here's the problem as I see it; PC gaming appeals to less people than console gaming because it is so difficult for casual gamers to get excited about the latest and greatest games because their rigs can't run them.

With a console you can get the 'big' new game and just pop it in. You don't have to worry about your console being able to run it because you just know it will.

Fer christsake I would love to play crysis but I know shit all about upgrading my pc to run it. It plays WOW well but that's about it.

Dubrockn

@ErskinPig:

Line of the day right there it is!

WhoreofSpamylon

If PC gaming is dead, I'm a necrophiliac.

ErskinPig

PC gaming has to step away from graphics, and move towards accessibility. There are TONS of PC games that I would love to play, but pretty much none of them run on my computer.

Dauragon C. Mikado

@Saxboy: People keep saying this yet I've never had anyone actually give me a decent idea of how or even where to start.

I used to be a big fan of PC gaming but it's really gotten ridiculous. The hassle is far too much.

Burguois

@invictus: The reason developers create new engines every few years is that an engine's performance is easily quantified and appraised, while game design talent is not - at least not until the product hits the shelves, and that's much too late. And graphics add a lot of value too. Imagine COD4, which is a great game gameplay-wise, running under the Q3 engine, like COD1. It sure as hell wouldn't make it to the top 10.

MadMinstrel

Problem is game developers are too easily swayed into just graphic innovations. We need game play innovations, UI innovations, and game ending innovations. Look how many people are still playing the original Counter-strike.

If you set up a good game and support its community then the game can last long after its graphics are cutting edge, but NO. Developers are stuck in the rut of new engine-itis. A new engine every 2-3 years or be damned.

So large budgets are spent on just the engine, not the quality of the game itself, just the graphics. They are their own worst enemy.

invictus

I still love to play a couple of games on the PC, as well as those that aren't on console. For example, epic D&D RPGs or RTSs. I can still be sucked into a great game on the PC even though it's nothing compared to 32" HDTV & 5.1 sound. It's just a different experience.

And I'm happy to have both PS3 & PC (with a powerful graphics card).

Candlejack

All these links to internet memes and nobody is concerned that Rein literally "reined" in Cliffy and made him change his mind.

Doesn't that mean PC gaming is dying, if they're trying to backpeddle? Cliffy made a good point, so IMPROVE and CHANGE PC gaming, don't censor and ignore. That's why it's dying, because retail PC can't get out of the nineties.

Snake726

Does anybody get the feeling that mark rein is a total high spec PC fanboy but Cliffy B is the one making money for Epic?

Mark, Not everybody can afford 2-3 graphics cards just to play 1 or 2 games. Just because your rich doesn't mean we are. Learn from this or see your sales die. Thats why UT3 did better on ps3 than it did on pc. Consoles are the future, like it or not.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

EdwinJ85

...jeez, what the hell are you guys whining about?

I love the Crysis demo at my local store, but there's no way in hell I can afford to play it. Orange Box is getting my money. Learn something from this.

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

Wah wah wah. So many people complaining about PCs. "I have to UPGRADES AND IT COSTS ME MONEY! I no wanna spend $400-600 upgrading my PC when I can just buy a system (for around 400, plus 50+ for additional controllers, maybe some other peripherals, oh and you gotta pick up a subscription to Live if your an Xbox owner, that's what, $35 for 6 months? !"

It's a hobby. It's fun. I spent about a grand on my computer 2 years ago. Spent $250 on a new 8800 GT and $80 on two GB of RAM to run Crysis on medium setting with a 40-60-ish framerate. I make money so I can SPEND it on my hobbies. Considering I also bought a Wii and am currently debating on whether or not to break down and get a PS3, it really isn't a huge difference in value (

I found this whole thing hilarious--some of you people screaming "PCS are too expensive!" Were the SAME people yelling at the people whining about PS3s being $600, which is about the cost of a PC tower, and can easily exceed a PC if you start counting those fancy HD televisions and sound systems you picked up with the intention of playing games on. Forget the 'you can do it semi-cheaply" YOU set the price there. The power of your machine is strictly a matter of YOUR choice and the amount of money you save on it is a matter of where you shop. If you don't want to deal with the technical know-how required, that's fine.

Regardless of what a few people are saying, companies are and have straight up proven--games can do well on PC. "Blizzard has a lot of money!"--what, you think Rock & Roll Racing is the game that put them on the map? "Valve is like super-rich!"--their earnings were PC. Several companies have done very well, and continue to do well.

Meanwhile, Epic games releases a game that's so relentlessly fast paced that having a rock-solid frame rate is essential with system requirements that border on the hilarious, to say nothing of the hideous amounts of bugs, with NO thoughts to cheat prevention. Than we hear Dev's bitch about the 'PC market.'

Let me re-iterate. I am a console gamer. I am a PC gamer. Gaming is my hobby, gaming is your hobby. What I'm trying to say is, stop treating a person like they're an idiot because of the medium they gravitate towards just because you don't get it.

And for god's sakes, I am so tired of hearing "BUT my system isn't top of the line after a month!" Does your system play games to your level of satsifaction? If answer = yes, than there ISN'T A PROBLEM.

Evdor

They, along with intel's crap graphics cards killed PC gaming. I can't see them reviving PC gaming until they learn how to make games.

chiefpoopingpants

@dead_red_eyes: That wouldn't be the first time Kotaku got 'rolled.

Frank

I think comparing the cost of entry for a console vs a PC is somewhat rediculous, since everybody buys a new computer every 3-5 years anyway for other tasks. I built a computer 4 years ago now, a shuttle box for $1100 at the time that used a 9600XT. And guess what? it still plays games like Quake Wars just fine. I could have spent $800-900 and still made a pretty servicable PC (even less than that but I like small form factors like the shuttles), but I spent a couple hundred extra for several years worth of gaming.

I like console gaming, I've owned pretty much everything out there (Atari 2600,NES, Genesis, SNES, Playstation, N64, Dreamcast, Playstation 2, Gamecube, Xbox and now a Playstation 3). But when it comes to real value for the money, it does make more sense to spend a little more to improve something you *have* to buy anway, your home PC. There's no need to upgrade every two years if you buy reasonably middle end components, and the games you bought 8-10 years ago will still be playable unlike with consoles if they're broken/sold off.

Right now, especially, it's kind of upsetting to think about how many of my friends will have useless 360 libraries in just a year or two when warranties are up and the industry momentum is beginning to move towards the next big thing. The same with my PS3, I buy plenty of games for it but I know when the next(next) gen hits, they'll be put aside. Meanwhile, I've still got my starcraft and halflife cd's in somewhat regular rotation.

Blinded220

@dead_red_eyes: Ahh, but thats not what there saying. theres a differance between budget hardware and cheap hardware. what i would call cheap is an intergrated sound chip. yeah, it can play your mp3s but can it run crysis? i have a prity good laptop, 2 gig o ram, fast 64bit processor, dual geforce 7900, it should run crysis realy well, but for the fact they skimped on the sound hardware. the intergrated cound chips driver hasnt been updated for years, there isnt a vista driver for it, its just rubbish in game. It casues crysis to have horrible sound stuttering and general bad performance.

my pc has a £10 creative sound card in it. no problems there

cubed2D

@cubed2D: - "cheap hardware that dosnt cut it for gameing."

While I whole heartedly agree with you ... it looks like Mark Rein and Cliffy B do not.

dead_red_eyes

@dead_red_eyes: Note: Covert_Knight EXPLICITLY said that you can't be idiot if you're going to buy/build a computer. Protip: Plan ahead.

1.) Get a big case with plenty of ventilation on space for future upgrades between 3-5 years from now. It isn't very difficult with most things have been standardized except for PCI Express x16 being used as much as 2.0 x16 and junk.

2.) Buy a power supply that will last? You don't need to get the newest 9800 Ultras when they come out and put them in three-way SLi. 800-1000W will last SEVERAL years on a single-card setup. At least... that's my prediction.

negative bro

@Frank:

Damnit. Did you just Tay Roll us?!

dead_red_eyes

@homernoy: Devolved

homernoy

@slomo788: You are talking out of your ass. Just because you have your nose sticking in some consoles ass, we should give up the

"whole eye-bleeding PC game concept and just focus on consoles"

I remember you. I would wish that the devs would leave the PS3 if I didn't have one. You and Papa bear have evolved from people I listned to into simply a thumping drum beat.

Your an idiot now that I have had a year to think about it. Hug you PS3 now. I love mine, but I don't want to fornicate with it.

homernoy

Must be a pretty low wagon.

Fyren

@[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP: No, I think you mean:

+ Watch video

Frank

First off, it you want a "top-of-the-line" gaming PC, you are starting at around $2500 (if you build it yourself), closer to $4000 or more if you buy from Dell. To put that in comparison, we are talking about 10x the price of consoles (which prices range from $250-$400). Even a low-end gaming PC is going to cost you $1200 or more.

There are also things you can do on a PC that cannot be matched by consoles. For example, running in above-HD resolutions, a variety of peripherals (mouse, keyboards, flight-sticks, etc.), crazy triple monitor setups in a fake nascar chassis, stereo 3d gaming/vr equipment, better online community (mmos, etc.), and a large supply of free (legal) content like flash games, free-to-play mmos, and other "browser-based" entertainment which is beginning to move into the 3d realm.

However, everyone is acting like the only thing you can do on a PC is play games. There is obviously way more stuff you can do, like actually make games. You can't do that on a console. If some company wants to build a console that can run photoshop, flash, 3d studio max, visual studio and other DCC programs at full speeds, then I'm game. I know the PS3 has linux, but from my understanding you don't have low-level access to the hardware like you do with a real PC. If they could provide this machine for around $500, well, it would kill the PC market. Microsoft and Nintendo aren't going to do it, but maybe Sony will with the PS4. Could be very cool.

cybereality

And I think the same thing about the PC too. It's fucked up how almost every developer is rushing their product out way too fast these days. Take Splinter Cell: Double Agent (PC) for example. That game was riddled with so many bugs when it came out ... it was like you were playing an alpha build of the game. It's like they didn't even playtest the damn thing.

dead_red_eyes

@Waka in Japan: - "console gamers are getting screwed badly and they take it gladly."

I'm not taking it gladly. I'm quite pissed about it actually. The fact that almost every console game (for the PS3 & Xbox 360) needs a patch these days is just ridiculous.

dead_red_eyes

You know, it wouldn't hurt to show some more commitment to your games that you release, Epic. UT3 has needed a patch since December 10th, 2007 for the PS3 release, and we've seen hardly anything from you guys. Seriously, throw us a frickin' bone already.

Telecinision

@Leviticus: Why? I'm totally serious. Is it because that's what you prefer, or is it something elese.

As for the story at hand, I still fail to see how Mr. B's statement solidifies the return of PC gaming. In fact, both of the seem to be speaking with the same kind of confidence that bankers have about the housing market. I don't care what they say, I'm not buying it.

sonofnone

The PC is still the best gaming platform a person could buy, but it isn't because of anything that has come out in the last year or needs an expensive machine to play.

Leviticus

I'm really not too interested in much coming out of Epic recently.

UT3 is broken abandonware and you will get banned for asking about a patch or anticheat at their forums. They even started banning members with zero posts because they posted their complaints at another website instead.

Respect -1 to Epic

elevenoverzero

the problem is consoles are becoming more like pc's
so all the "problems" pc's have, consoles are having them too.
buying hard disks, buying wifi thingys, having to install games, having games crashing, having games crashing a lot, having to patch games, having to return your console because it overheated, disks that get scratched, 12 digit long friend codes. Also you get crappy core packs, some without backwards compatibility... and on top of that, you have to play call of duty 4 with a controller.
console gamers are getting screwed badly and they take it gladly.
Wee, it sure is trouble-free console gaming around here.

Waka in Japan

@dead_red_eyes: You seriously had to buy a new case for a motherboard because the 'pins' didnt line up? thats crazy. i could understand haveing to get a new case becuase your old one was some low profile case and to small for your motherboard, but needing a new one because the foot holes dont match up is new to me!

motherboards nowerdays are normaly built to the atx standard, wich dictates were holes are alowed to go for attaching the board to the case. you probably had some cheap case that didnt conform to the standard properly. thats the kind of stuff the pc alience is trying to stop. cheap hardware that dosnt cut it for gameing.

cubed2D

fwiw, I just bought a PC for a 1000 dollars. I wish I had gotten a mac.

/venting.

mescalineeyes

I try to future proof my computer as best I can, so far I've done really well, being able to keep my computers for 3-4 years with minor upgrades.

Rebelphoenix83

@slomo788:

Thumbs up!!!

dead_red_eyes

@Covert_Knight:

"Why the hell do I have to replace the Power Supply?"

Because the new video card you bought requires more wattage than your power supply can give.

"Why do I have to replace the mobo?"

Because it crapped out on you? Or you just bought a new processor that won't fit into your old one?

"Why do I have to replace my case?"

Because the new motherboard you just bought won't fit in your new case. The pins don't match up correctly.

And I see no console trolls on here. If anything, your PC fanboy-ism and hate towards console owners is more trollish than any other comment on here. I love PCs, and I've been building them since 1995. But I'm not rich, and have a family to support ... so I can't upgrade often. And when I need to, I have to spend a lot more than I expected. Like buying a new processor, which requires me to buy another motherboard because it won't fit in my old one ... then the new motherboard can't fit in my old case because the pins don't match up. Or let's say I want to buy a new video card, but I have to buy a new power supply because my current one doesn't have enough watts. It's a never ending upgrade game, and it takes it's toll in the long run.

dead_red_eyes

@Covert_Knight: Communist spoon? Who's simple-minded here you moron? The ones that have a gaming machine that will last 5-10 years or the ones that have to "upgrade" shit every 2 years? Dude, when someone's right and you don't have a counter-argument, you just shut the fuck up or you look like an idiot. It's that simple.

slomo788

With the power of consoles like 360 and PS3, I think they should just give up on the whole eye-bleeding PC game concept and just focus on consoles. Games Like BF: Heroes should replace games like Crysis on PCs. Why? Because it costs too much and is not as profitable. So what happens then is that they try to recoup the losses by throwing shovelware on consoles and hoping they sell. Plus PC gaming also hurts the industry with that torrent shit. Let me know when they put a 25-50 GB BD game on torrent, or when they bypass Microsoft's security on the 360. If anything, publishers should just try to port console games on PCs, that way they will justify the billion dollar video cards. But the way it's done right now, with devs like Epic or Crytek struggling on PCs and wasting ressources, it's more of a problem than anything. I think...

slomo788

1. Saxboy: you CANNOT buy a top-of-the-line computer for $700. You can, however, build yourself a *passable* computer for that much.

2. You do not need to upgrade your computer every few months. More like every couple of years; longer if you aren't overly concerned with having all the graphical bells-and-whistles turned on.

3. My experience getting TES: Oblivion running on my PC: Install game, install patch (if any), click play. Adjust ingame graphic settings. Cue His Majesty Jean-Luc Picard. Not hard. Not long. Not a problem.

Tuor

@Trowble (XBL/PSN): I've never really bought that.. I update my PC once every two or three years, and I can still play big games when I want to.. they just don't look as good or run as smooth.. I'll always love PC gaming, I just want them to continue throwing us all the games! >:D

Voteforme2020

See here is the problem with you console trolls, thing is we dont BUY a new computer every time we upgrade. In fact, honestly the only two things you should have to worry about when upgrading is graphics card and ram. Just invest in a good CPU and you should be fine. Why the hell do I have to replace the Power Supply? Why do I have to replace the mobo? Why do I have to replace my case? If you're smart and you know what you're doing you won't run into having to pay much for pc gaming, but because you want to stay simple minded and have a communist spoon fed gaming machine handed over to you that breaks down, then by all means go ahead, but PC gaming exists for a reason whether you like it or not.

Covert_Knight

@Saxboy: Yea "close to top of the line PC," maybe... that first month you buy it before something new comes out. And the lifespan of the PC will last as long as the PS3, if not longer, but the games won't be able to keep up. It's hard enough already for them to keep up with the expensive PC gaming rigs.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

@Saxboy: the problem is when you pay the same for 1 or 2 years of gaming ( PC ) ... consoles have more game time ( 5-10 years )
that's why its expensive, i don't want to keep changin my pc every year....as i do

symphony_of_the_night

@Heyyou27:

Exactly. Hell, the new Core 2 Duo line costs as much as a damn PS3 or Xbox 360. He's trolling obviously.

dead_red_eyes

I would upgrade my PC but I feel like it will be outdated so fast. I was thinking of building a Core 2 Duo 3.0ghz machine. Oh well, back to playing PS3.

DigitalHero

@Saxboy: Yeah right; I paid more for my 8800GTX alone than I did my PS3 or 360.

Heyyou27

@[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP: Hate. Song.

Car2oon

@dead_red_eyes: I usually can't put what i want to say into words so i come up with youtube... and it works.

[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP

PR-Guy came and told Cliffy that it's not politic to dis hiz PC homies. Da Cliffster used this occasion in an attempt to appease those loyal fans (buyers) whom he offended with his previous remarks.

Tuor

@Saxboy:

What kind of crack are you smoking? "Close to top of the line" my ass.

dead_red_eyes

@Saxboy: That's not true and you know it.

mescalineeyes

@Trowble (XBL/PSN):

Agreed. You can't play Epics new games on a freaking dedicated graphics card. No way in hell.

dead_red_eyes

You can build a close to top of the line PC for under the cost of a PS3, and it will last you just as long. "PC Gaming is too expensive" is just an excuse.

Saxboy

@[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP:

Someone's a bit YouTube happy.

dead_red_eyes

@dead_red_eyes:

Watch CliffyB say he was drunk when he made that comment. Now that he's sober, he wants to clarify he meant it's not dead and can be saved.

I say staying optimistic is better than saying it is dead and giving up. Unfortunately, this doesn't mean that games will become cheaper or easier to get, the gaming alliance [seems to be] is in the interest of the alliance, not their paying [and non-paying?] customers.
Who knows what they'll do to attempt to restore it in their eyes.

kaitousai

@Ashurahori:

"Thing is, PC has alot of shitty problems most of us don't want to deal with, while a console is just pop in something and go."

Agreed. After years of building PC after PC ... I've just had enough of the troubleshooting & optimizing that it takes to run a game. It took me hours to get TES:Oblivion optimized, and I've had to do it with other games as well. I can't keep spending $1000 every couple of years on upgrades, and then laying down more cash for "the next big thing". Like the whole step from APG to PCI-Express. And now, it's all about having 2 video cards (same model) running together. Thankfully, people are writing programs/games with multi-core processors in mind ... but it wasn't like that a while ago. I just don't have the money for PC gaming anymore, not when there's only 1-3 games that come out a year that are worth paying $$$$$ for.

dead_red_eyes

Cliffy got reminded who signs his cheques.

Rockwallaby

@[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP: Oh no you did-in't!

Although Mark Rein mentions reasonably priced PC's, he adverts to mentioning reasonably priced laptops? Why is that? Oh right... reasonably priced laptops can't the job done worth for shit, flash based games etc. aside.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

@dead_red_eyes:
SLAP!

+ Watch video

[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP

@[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP:

No, he meant Chocolate Rein.

What the shit is up with Cliffy changing his mind like that? Mark must've bitch slapped him.

dead_red_eyes

rofl. we'll see.

ManjiKengo

Thing is, PC has alot of shitty problems most of us don't want to deal with, while a console is just pop in something and go.

Plus, the PC's current small array of excelent games doesn't justify it.

Ashurahori

more games like the orange box that can run on my 3 year old laptop and also look great on high end computers and less games like crysis.

hass

I do you think you mean Chocolate Rain

+ Watch video

If PC becomes affordable i will be there.

[KU]Shindokie: Just Bought A PSP