Does one of the endings include bear cavalry?

Hylian

I'm feeling a bioshock-es

Syndicated Terence

I'm thinking each ending will be kind of a follow-up montage based on your choices throughout the game. I think this is what fallout2 had though its been too long and I don't remember.

If thats the case, from 200 we (those that can do math, aka not me) can deduce the number of decision points that actually make a diffence, and it doesnt seem like that many.

Further supporting this theory is that quest the developers showed off for the initial preview of the game, where you can either destroy or save a town (you can probably do many more things in that scenario, such as simply leave). Each of these choices will constitute an "ending" because all else held constant it can have a certain number of variations in the ending montage.

While thats still cool, its nothing to get overly excited about and at most it will lead us to replay the game a couple more times.

Zenshai

If you don't know how the Fallout games dealt with the end game ask someone who does, you'll see it's a very similar aproach.

If you do know the classic Fallout games then you just need to know that there will be less permutations (at this point) and karma will have a central role on how they will occur. But as I said before in the end it is very similar, on this issue there will be some continuity, and that's good.

And Gstaff I also mailed Kotaku with data to make things a bit more clear, but only Destructoid took some action for now.

[www.destructoid.com]

Briosafreak

With that many endings, i would bet my balls that they won't have the quality and polish of a game with only 3-5 endings. More likely an in-game cinematic of the various scenarios that would happen once you complete the game instead of 200 cinematics..

Banedon38

@FLYBOY611:

If you listen to his answer on it (starting about 38 min into the podcast), I think it'll make a little more sense. It's not that each of these endings would be completely different, but rather things you do during the game can tweak different endings.

gstaff

I expect that this is because they're doing what Fallout 1 and 2, did, in which case it's not actually that impressive. In Fallout 1 and 2, at the end of the game, you'd get little CGI renders an voice-overs telling you what eventually happened to each location you visited. There were a few for each place, and the one you got for each place depended upon your actions there. You'd watch six or seven of them after a usual play-through.

Suppose there are two possible blurb-outcomes for each location, and seven locations you can get them for. Then suppose there are two "main endings" you can get. That means there are 2 to the 8, or 256, possible endings. This is about what Fallout 1 and 2 had.

Pantsman

200 permutations of 8-12 endings is not very impressive if you consider fallout 2 has 47 endings with 1,105,920 permutations, or even Fallout which has 19 different endings, with 360 permutations.

So basically 200 endings is not that impressive from a simple numbers standpoint...however 200 permutations if there in full 3D is fairly impressive depending on the length and complexity of those 200 permutations.

Borathian

@Mupp:
Yup, according to this [user.tninet.se]
1,105,920 is the exact number (if you exclude Vault13 endings, otherwise its the double. ^_^)

neojam

This appears to be confusing some people and to be honest, Todd's being very vague. But he appears to be talking about Fallout 1/2-style permutations (the "ending slides"), in which case 200 really isn't all that much.

Fo1 has 19 different endings, with 360 possible permutations. Fo2 has 47 endings with 1,105,920 permutations. If 200 is the number of permutations for Fo3, they are seriously behind. That would correspond to maybe 10-20 endings. But I'm assuming they'd have to be talking about permutations since you should know when designing a game whether you'll have ~12 or ~200 endings. You don't accidentally hop from 12 to 200 endings late in the development process and send in an order for 188 additional voiceovers from Ron Perlman (because he will KILL YOU). With permutations it would be thinkable, at least.

Mupp

Hmm 200?
I guess it will be like in Fallout 2, a different "ending" for every city/place & etc, depending on your actions there. And the variation of those will make your final ending.

So if you have 2 cities and there are 4 possible endings for each, then you already have 16 different possible endings (only for those 2 cities). So 200 inst that much for Fallout2-like game.

But i would like to know how many of those 200 endings will affect your character directly (aka "a real endings"). If it would be more than 10, i would be surprised.

neojam

I'm looking at that number as if Apple said it.

As in: "OS X Leopard will have over 200 new features."

eponym

How about 3 or 4 endings instead. 200 is waaaay too many.

cantbeatmegaman

more likely Todd said 20 endings and the reporter leaned on the 0 key a little too long.

But hey, having more that a couple of endings is sweet, having upwards of 10 is phenomenal!

HingeThunder

I think in the fullness of time developers will discover that this is a bad idea.

The hype of half a million possible weapons, or 200 possible endings, or 1000's of planets to explore will all be eventually exposed as bullshit once we start paying the thing.

Give me one GOOD ending with 200 amazing and astonishing things to happen along the way.

Sullyville

considering how many different ways I played Fallout 2, the game taking into account previous actions will be great.
Going from do-gooder to scourge of the wastes and having the same ending didnt feel right.

But now I'm remembering all those found memories... work just isnt going to get done today.
Shot gun wedding to my lesbian slaver/pornstar actress/child murderer (F that redneck family in reno!). Good times.

Derigor

I do think that the 200 endings will just be variations as to what you accomplish during the game. Help this city + Help this city = good ending, Don't help this city + don't help this city = bad ending, don't help + help = another ending....such as the way as the previous fall outs, just outcomes of what your karma is for each city. But I don't believe there will be 200 unique ones. Even with just the 12 originally stated endings we'll still love this game. So 200 or 12 or 1000 it will just be the same, a lot of people are still going to get this.

functioningbadly

As others have pointed out, it will likely follow Fallout tradition and you will see the results of your complete history of actions in-game - each permutation is then, in marketing-speak, a new 'ending'. While this is not itself a bad thing, it's the last thing they should be promoting as being 'wicked cool awesome' about Fallout 3.

I'd settle for a proper game with the depth of the originals, including all the deliciously ambiguous moral choices.

The Commissar

I'm willing to bet its going to be like Tactics ending-wise. Maybe 5-10 set endings with alot of vaibles. Thats actually a pretty cool thing.

Cameroo

someone post this in the fallout forum

"Fo1 has 19 different endings, with 360 possible permutations. Fo2 has 47 endings with 1,105,920 permutations. If 200 is the number of permutations for Fo3, they are seriously behind. That would correspond to maybe 10-20 endings. But I'm assuming they'd have to be talking about permutations since you should know when designing a game whether you'll have ~12 or ~200 endings. You don't accidentally hop from 12 to 200 endings late in the development process and send in an order for 188 additional voiceovers from Ron Perlman . With permutations it would be thinkable, at least."

and replied by one of the programmers
"Ding! That's right. Incidentally, another way to get the same result is to say that each flavor can either be "in" or "out", so that's 2^8 = 256, except that the one case where they're all "out" doesn't fit the "at least one scoop" requirement."

I think people should read replies before they post "its going to take forever". The guy is selling the game to the people so he has to bullshit or "stretch the truth" in this case.

d_agra

@Duoae:

I agree.

I just hope the endings without the variations are good.

Vecha

Please, this is such an artificial number. It's not like you get a unique cutscene every time. It'll just be a collection of various sequences that get jumbled together depending on a few events and choices during gameplay.

200 isn't that fancy.

Let's say there are two outcomes from a choice that has two outcomes, namely blowing up, and not blowing up Megaton, a choice they've already made abundantly clear. With that choice you multiply the number of possible endings by two. Another might have three outcomes, another four, that's 2*3*4= 24. Ok, a few more multiple choice events that may be incorporated into the end conclusion; 2*3*4*3*4*2=... wops that's 576 unique endings, how about that! Get the point? I'm not saying multiple endings aren't good, I'm just saying that this won't be as awesome as it sounds.

Pinhead

I pity the fool who decides to post all the minute differences in them on Gamefaqs.

floppylobster

I believe in the 200 endings!

*Spoiler alert!*
.
.
.
Right near the end of the game you will enter a dialogue with some people and depending on your answer you will receive the appropriate ending... Bethesda are taking the bi-moral choice system to the next level!

Duoae

I know i'd rather an 80 hour game with like, 3 completely different, satisfying and thorough endings, rather than 200 pointless ones. As soon as I saw this article I immediately pictures Bioshock endings x 200. That is, stupid and pointless endings that have no effect on the player emotionally.
When you put so much time effort and soul into a huge game like this, and the game is awesome for 95% of it, you need an equally fitting and detailed ending to make it all worthwhile!! Agreed?

Y2Jason

@AzureDrag0n1: Did you play Fallout 1 or 2? Both managed mutiple endings with subtle differences fine. And completely voice-acted by Ron Perlman to boot.

splines

@SynKade: erm since when was achievement points/achievements had any real value? so getting 20 points for each unlock wouldn't be bad since they are all worth 0

Bleentastic sees bandwagon and jumps

This is the worst thing I could have seen about this game. Damn it. Now it is very very unlikely that this game will have good endings. Just think about it. It takes considerable thought and production value to make a good ending. 200 ending means we get garbage endings in the form of a short clip and some text. 200 endings means a waste of development time on better things. 10 fleshed out endings is plenty for anyone. Oh there can be variations in those 10 endings such that you would get with party members but 10 unique ones would be fine.

AzureDrag0n1

UPDATE:Bethesda has just confirmed that the number of endings is now OVER 9000!!!!

playdead

It's not like they made 200 different ending cutscenes, fools. It's probably going to be a modular thing. For instance, you could have an ending composed of four parts that each have four different variations, and then you'd technically have 256 "endings." But in reality, you could see all the content of those 256 endings in as little as four playthroughs (if you saw a new variation from each part every time).

Horsefly

People are really overestimating the plot nodes needed to get 200 endings. Like I said 8 with good or bad leads to 256. Instead if there are 3 endings for each node, good, bad, neutral, you need only 6 nodes to get 216 "endings". 14 nodes with good or bad endings would give you about 16384 endings.

endaround

@LowNemesis:
Well, thank you for that. I get a lot of flak here for not being a fan of shooters, so it's refreshing to see some people who take what I'm saying as a carefully thought out opinion and not just flamebait bashing.

A lot of people see me saying things that go against the status quo and immediately they just scream "FANBOY!" or "BIAS!" I swear, sometimes it's enough to make someone want to stop posting. Which sucks, since I like this place!

Archaotic

Betting on lots of very similar endings with important but not story-changing differences, ala the endings for the first two.

I really, really, really want this game to be good. Please don't let me down, Bethesda.

splines

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.: Agreed, i actually respect what he is saying because he can understand both sides and isn't a prick about his opinions as many others are.

LowNemesis

while shocked, i'm also not too thrown. fallout is a sandbox game. Not only that, but there are various ways to go about beating the game. I havent taken a math course in a while, but i know that if you throw a couple of variables into a mix of possibilities, that the different number of combos can spike dramatically. what amazes me is the idea of the ending itself...that they would have successfully made a program that would be able to adjust itself accordingly like that. it almost seems too complicated to exist.

of course, maybe i'm wrong and they they calculated the number of diff possibilities and how it arrived there, and then modified the couple of basic stories to go along with the slightly different ones.

at this point i feel bad for the narrorator...he's going to have ALOOOTTT of dramatic reading to do.

jrghoull

..... Something tells me it's probably 200 possible 'combinations' of 'endings', like of various possible 'ends' of different 'factions'.
So in reality its just like maybe 10 or less.

Tora

I'm betting most of those end up either with your demise or the same ending with VERY slight differences.

/cynic

blackadvent

Lies. I see what they're doing. See, they're going to do it like 1 and 2, where what you do in the game gives you a different outcome for various settlements and suchlike in the ending. And they're calling each particular combination a different ending.

Huxleyhobbes

How about an ending that does not end the game? From what I understand, the game will have a definite ending and you will not be able to keep continuing the game after you reach it like you can in morrowind/oblivion. Not saying thats bad, but one of the draws from bethesda's other games was that the games never ended, you could keep playing forever. That option does not seem to be here.

Azriel77

over 200 ending!?! Thats insane. Gotta get a PC that can run this bad boy.

Majpain007

Star Ocean 2 had like 250 endings, but in reality there were just a bunch of cutscenes you could earn, and some of them were mutually exclusive. Every permutation of these cutscenes was considered a different ending. A number like 200 must mean the same... about 14 scenes with a good and evil version of each.

lanion

@ArmyofJuan: pretty much every other quest in the game; all the faction quests, almost all the oblivion gates, has to be most of the random town quests, working on shivering isles now, walking around fighting random people and monsters with big swords and axes that i made. working on building up stats that i haven't used at all like mysticism and luck. (who the hell builds luck in oblivion)

it's a great game to drop in and mess around for a while. it's taken over GTA for me....until GTA4 comes out.

jfx316

Realisticly speeking, the endings will probobly be like the originial Fallout (which will be about the only thing that will be like the original fallout) where the "endings" were a still image of a locations and a short piece of dialoge about what happened, this means there will be 30 or so towns with 5 or so different outcomes each, hardly alot, given that Fallout 1 had about 75.

deuxhero

After looking a little closer, I missed a few variations. Two two-way switches, in fact -- which brings my estimated total to over a million.

Seriously, guys -- it's been done before.

Rallion

I'm fairly certain that Fallout 2 had, literally, tens of thousands of endings. The calculation I just did gave me a total of 276,480 combinations, but I think a few of the variations are mutually exclusive. It's not difficult. I think New Reno alone had something like TEN possible endings.

Rallion

200 endings? That makes me not want to play this game.

Fireblast

Coincidence that this happens shortly after Jesus' Resurrection? Proof that there is a God, and he's on our side. :)

Pezdispenser

200 is too big a number... it makes me stop taking it seriously. With 12 or so I can still imagine a decent crop of quality endings like Chrono Trigger, each ending clearly distinct from one another. 200 strikes me as just a whole bunch of combinations of a much smaller selection. "Good ending, but with so-and-so as your girlfriend, having killed Jim", or "Evil ending, having killed Jim and taken no romantic sub-plot", etc, etc. Either that or the credits roll at the end of *every* sub plot (Harvest Moon has a lot of "endings" like that).

I think when you blow the number up that big, you really cheapen it.

Well, with any luck they'll probe me completely and utterly wrong in Autumn...

Darien_Shields

I hope these 200 endings aren't only 20, just with color variations...(you know, save that girl and she now is alive in that town, don't save her and she isn't alive... Two endings with no real purpose)

goliathvv

City in game
multiplied by
PC interaction with city
to the power of
Non-city faction in game
multiplied by
PC interaction with faction
equals
Number of endings.

Getting to 200 this way only requires about 10 cities and 3-4 factions and 2 results for each faction.

Sekai

@mowh: What? What who meant? i don't get it :S

Cchrist

@Han Daimond: This is one of those times where I'm thankful YouTube exists.

Americo

Ending #137: protagonist shoots self in head between 30-45 minutes into the game while being a red-headed man.
Ending #138: protagonist gets eaten by giant ant between 30-45 minutes into the game while being a red-headed man...

Excalibur

You know this sounds like awesome news EXCEPT to the completest out there. s/he probably throwing his hands in the air going "FUCk THIS!" only because he know his friendships, love life, marriage, and job will be lost :( I smell class-action lawsuit (...it's so possible in California).

okenny :)

spoiler here an ending:
"Do you want to go save daddy?"
"No"
"are you sure?"
"I don't want to get out of the hole and stay here forever."
"End of the game 1"

ChuckNorrisKommando

40 hours with side quests would have been pathetic for a Fallout game. 80 sounds way better, yes, but still nowhere near the likes of Baldur's Gate 2. Was it somewhere near 200?

MaxS

*raises the bullshit flag*

FLYBOY611

@Cchrist:

That is more along the lines of what he originally meant. I'm assuming the differences between most of these endings are but a few words or different characters appearing in places of others, which you could still technically call a different ending.

mowh

BLIMEY!!! That's alot of endings! I can kind of imagine after getting all those endings there will be a message telling you to get a life or something ala guitar hero in south park!

bdiddyb

200 different endings? Does that mean it's the same ending only your chracter is wearing different hats?

Cchrist

Oh boy, this will drive a completionist crazy.

SAKY

@endaround:

aww man. I'm too slow.

juv3nal

8 plot nodes with each having 2 outcomes leads to 2^8 "distinct" endings. Fallout 2 (if it weren't bugged so some of the endings weren't obtainable) probably had more come to think of it. Lemme see...den, broken hills, v15, myron, gecko, vault city, ncr, san fran, modoc. yep.

juv3nal

That's a whole lotta programming...

captronj

Its like people never actually played Fallout. Lets say you have 8 basic things (cities, characters, factions)that can change, and each has a good or bad ending. So thats 2^8 possible outcomes or 256 endings. That isn't 256 ending movies.

endaround

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.: The hallmark of a great game, in my opinion, is being able to do things that mean absolutely nothing but are fun none the less. It doesn't make a game great but it certainly helps.

There was this weird red/black glowy thing, I can't remember what it was, in Oblivion and I would find mountains, go as high as I could, and then drop the orb and watch it fly down the mountain side and I would try and catch it.

All sorts of pointless things that were just fun to do. Where else can you throw a flaming bear corpse off of a mountain and try to hit it with a lightening bolt on the way down, just for shits and giggles?

SynKade

@Archaotic:
I've seen it already. I really need to find a way to buy a PS3. I'd have enough money if I sold my 360, but then I wouldn't be able to play a lot of other games. I wish I had sold my Wii around Christmas. I would have had enough then, and I probably could have bought my Wii back by now.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

Fallout 3 is going to be the greatest game ever, if only because one of the fallout shelters was filled with 99 women and only 1 man.

Cracking that one open 10 years later's gonna be a blast.

lasttimeyouaskedme

I thought I should clarify (as Todd does in the OXM podcast when asked about the number of endings) what those 200 endings mean. The end to Fallout 3 is sort of a summary of all the things you did in the game along the way. So it isn't 200 completely different things that happen at the end, it's a different ending that takes into all the things you did (or didn't do) during the course of the game.

DCDeacon

I'm thinking 200 ways to end the game. I'm sure you'll watch an ending as you're killed in multiple scenarios, and stuff.

Ashurahori

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.:
I don't know if you saw it or not yet, but the footage of the Metal Gear Online Japanese beta had shit like that you were just talking about in it. Give it a look, you'll laugh your ass off. I reserved MGS4 just to try out the beta and see what ways I can mess around in it.

Archaotic

Imagine if EA, Activision or MS got their grubby mits on Bethesda. They'd sell each ending to you individually. D:

ErskinPig

Ending #200: Finished Game, turns out there was an orange peel in your pocket the whole time!

OMG

I have a feeling this is slightly embellished.

wef

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.:
Glad to hear it. I see where you're coming from too, it's just not really my playstyle, and as such, to see it so prolific these days at the expense of more classic-style RPG gaming saddens me. I worry a lot nowadays that Lost Odyssey really will be the last of the classic-style RPGs, as everything's ending up either a strategy or shooting game these days...

Archaotic

@jfx316: "i'm 460 hours into oblivion and i'm not even close to beating the main storyline"

jeezum crowe, man! put a copy of that savegame in a safe deposit box!

PlayerX

Ridiculous. You won't see me going near a game with only 200 endings. The Sims has infinite endings, while Wii Tennis has numerous ways of winning or losing a set of games. You can play a five set game and win lose win lose win, or win lose lose win win, or lose lose win lose. There are many more combinations which can easily be worked out using simple logic, or indeed complicated logic if there is a requirement for a more detailed anwswer to any particular question proposed for one of several arguments.

Like Physics, when asked the answer to the question "How many endings should this have?", the answer should be zero, one or infinite.

Furthermore, therefore, in conclusion and additionally, good luck internet. Only you can save us all completing the game 200 times.

thewisestfool

@Vegan Shinigami: No one is bitching, stop being a fanboy and respect others opinions. Depending on play style any RPG can be massive, tiny or somewhere in between. Not everyone plays like you do.

SynKade

@SynKade:
Dude, I think we play both Oblivion and MGS in the exact same way. Favorite games in Oblivion: Throwing bear corpses down hills, being invisible and marveling at Havok portrays a flying corpse that's on fire, and hunting dear with arrows. Favorite games in MGS: Messing with guards, planting claymore on guards, and arranging guards in sexually suggestive piles after they are knocked out. I think that's one of the pillars of good a good game. The ability to screw around.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

@darthmole12: kinda what i was thinkin..

flagg

What do they qualify as a separate ending, exactly? Is it the same basic in-game video played 200 times, except in each different one, your character has the special wristwatch (...or headband or whatever)he/she/they picked up along the way if you bothered to accomplish a special goal? Or is it like there are literally like 33 hours of footage at the end of the game? I doubt if it's either one; likely it'll be some combination of both, but in any case, that's an impressive number, 200.

*disclaimer: I don't have time to listen to the interview*

PlayerX

Hurr, sounds wierd. There's probably a way to end the game in several ways in each city or something I gather.

zlimness

I am predicting extremely small differences between most of the endings.

Afore Notation

@Archaotic:
Hm. This is the first time I've completely disagreed with somebody on Kotaku, yet still understood and respected the way they think. Weird feeling. I'm not used to experiencing this on the internet.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

I couldn't be more excited. One of my favourite franchises ever being made by the developer of another of my favourite franchises... this game has the potential to be fucking amazing.

Also, whoever said Oblivion was too short obviously didn't enjoy playing the game.. I have clocked up 130+ hours and still have quite a bit to do.. and my fiancee has played over 240 hours... if you enjoy a game, you will take your time with it, rather than just race through to the end so you can bitch about how short it was.

Vegan Shinigami

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.: 'sneak into her house and beat the shit out of her'

I laughed so hard right now, it's not even funny. Sunflower seeds and fits of laughter do not mix well.

@Archaotic: And no problem man, as long as neither of us starts flinging shit around I'm fine with someone having a dif. opinion.

And I can completely understand someone having a lesser experience on Oblivion. Nothing you did outside the story impacted the story in any way and that can be a bitch. Also the story in general doesn't take too long. I had a game that I had played over 100 hours on where i would do a brief story mission and then screw around killing people and stuff for a good 4 or five hours before I went back into the story. I started a new game later where I decided to just do the story first and I don't think it took me more then ten hours. Oblivion definately lacked in the story department.

Also, I'm a perfectionist in the sense that on a game like MGS I go for all headshots and try to only use the tranquilizer gun, but if doing something tedious and has zero sense of fun is standing in my way of getting 100% completion I don't even bother. With Oblivion I was having enough fun just randomly dropping old women like flies once I got complete invisibility that I didn't care that there was really no point or consequence to what I was doing.

SynKade

I couldn't even force myself to play to the 1 ending of oblivion.
Auto leveling mobs killed the game-play for me. How about you make the enemies get harder as the story goes on; rather than making that random spawn bandit appear with a full suit of armor and a sword.
Though; modifying that spell on the resurrection staff I got with the editor so it lasted for ever and cost no mana so I could resurrect a whole town full of zombies was one of the best things I ever did.

And yes; I played guild and other sidequests quite a lot; no where near as good as morrowind in that regard (where I ended up the leader of almost every guild on the damned island).

MeateaW

@Archaotic:
I used to be a big completionist, but Oblivion cured me. Cured me hard. I don't know, I guess I just don't like when games try to force a story on me. Sometimes it can be good, but only if I really like to story to begin with. That's probably why I like the stuff from Bethesda and Bioware. They really make the story seem like part of the gameplay to me. I guess Final Fantasy games technically have better main stories than games like Oblivion, but I'm not crazy about a either of their main stories. In fact, the only game who's story I really loved was Metal Gear. So a game really has to have some cool and fun sidequests to make me like it's atmosphere. Also, I like it when I'm not doing some main character save the world kind of thing. I like it when the outcome of a sidequest would only matter to a few insignificant people.

Oh and don't dis Tali. She was awesome. That accent was so cool, and there were some funny parts between her and Wrex. Of course, the circumstances had to be right for those parts to happen, so most players would probably never experience them.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

This'll tide us over till MGS5

Knight-Zero

This is right, real Fallout style. I approve.

imaria

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.:
Quality post, man. I see where you're coming from, really, I do. I don't know. I guess I'm just not an escapist gamer. I don't really care about immersion, I just like a good story with some decent gameplay backing it up. And as such, it gets harder for me to care about a random NPC's problems when there's a world out there to save. And if the game's storyline is being compromised to fit in more random NPCs with random problems, it gets worse. =/

Archaotic

exaggeration17a: Well, if you define "ending" really loosely, I can see how this or any other game could have 200+ endings.

That's what I was thinking, choose your own adventure style.

Maybe there are 10 legit endings, and 190 "game over man" endings.

lordargent

I said it before and I'll say it again. Fallout 3 is GOTY 2008 (and yeah, I'm pretty sure these 200 endings will in fact be something like 10 endings with very minor changes in some details, but if I'm wrong it's even better!)

WhiskeyJak

@Archaotic:
Dude, the point is that Mr. McTownie is worried about his wife's feelings. Are you just going to leave him hanging? He may not be the most important person, and his fate may not matter in the big scheme of things, but he's still a person! Not really, but you can pretend he is. And who knows, maybe there isn't a ring, and he's really luring you out to an island where he has clients that hunt you for sport (that quest was awesome). And who says that you have to help Ms. Villigette? Maybe she's just a paranoid bitch. Instead, you can sneak into her house at night and beat the shit out of her. Both of these quests actually did happen in Oblivion, though not exactly as described.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

There's also that the endings may possibly not actually be at the predefined end of the game. You becoming a member of a cult that lobotomizes all new inductees might be pretty shitty ending but it's still one.

Dioxen

@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.:
I see where you're coming from there too, man. I can be a bit of a completionist if the mood strikes me, like in a game like Chrono Trigger where I've beaten the game so many times on the same save file that I have 17 Rainbow Swords in my inventory. In the Suikoden games, I never finish without making sure I've recruited all 108 of the Stars. And with my save on Disc 4 of Lost Odyssey, I fully plan to take advantage of every single thing the game has to offer. But I enjoyed those games' storylines and characters so much that grinding, and doing random sidequests wasn't a problem. It was expanding my experience and making my purchase even more valid.

But then I pick up a game like Mass Effect that has a 15-hour main storyline and characters who hardly develop at all (hell, look at Tali! Did she really contribute anything?), and those same sidequests that in a Suikoden or a Final Fantasy would be cool end up becoming busy work, stretching out an experience that should've had more meat on it to begin with. It feels cheap and unfinished to me, and as a writer with his hands in game design, it hurts even more.

Archaotic

200? That's like 190 too many. I hope they're just trying to show off and it's actually 10 or so endings with a differing final screen or something. That, or it'll become one of few games where I don't try to see all the endings.

Wolfers

Star Ocean 2 had '88' endings I believe but in actuality, it was a much more smaller number with small differences, this is what I expect with Fallout 3

excel_excel

Here's the thing - they said 200 endings, but they didn't say 200 good endings. The problem isn't the quantity, it's the quality. Does a different ending mean that in the same block of text that describes the epilogue, "xyz town you visited early on was saved" instead of "was destroyed"? Or are we talking about 200 real, substantive endings?

Reuptake

@SynKade:
@TheEngineer: Kirbytheslayer is awesome.:
Well, I love finding hidden stuff, but the thing about it is that the sidequests in games like Oblivion, Two Worlds, Mass Effect, Fable, and now Fallout aren't hidden. The game basically makes you do them if you want to get any meat out of your experience.

It's not like in a game like Final Fantasy VI or Lost Odyssey where the sidequests augment the experience. In open-ended RPGs, the throwaway sidequests that would be padding at the end of a plot-driven RPG become the experience. And I can't agree with that from a game design standpoint, as without a good story backbone, there's no POINT in helping Joe McTownie find his wife's lost ring or helping Patricia Villagette snoop on her neighbors to see if they're having an affair.

And Syn, I don't mean to single you out there, as you mentioned earlier we do generally just have different tastes and I mean no disrespect.

Archaotic

200 endings or 20 endings with several minor variations?

7ucky

Arrgh i want to see some footage so bad

Sunjammer

I just cannot fathom how one could write 200 endings for ANYTHING. There must be like 12 endings, with another 188 subtle differences.
Man, I hope this game is at least as good as Mass Effect. (sans load issues)
If they can pull that off, it'll be a worthy successor to the Fallout Lineage.

Insomnia Bob

If this is done right I think I might not need to buy another game for a little while.

Dakito

@Archaotic:
You're a weird player, but I do sort of like your style. People who force themselves to get every materia or other stupid thing confuse me. I've got nothing against getting 100% on a game if it's fun to do, or not insane. I got 100% on San Andreas, which most people thought was crazy, but I loved it. With Oblivion, I think I was just good at infusing characters with personality myself. They weren't that fleshed out, but I thought it was enough.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

@SynKade:
When I play an RPG, I play it for the story first and foremost. Helping generic civilians who all have the same voice actor and same face, as well as zero plot importance, started to wear me down after the third or fourth hour of play, and it made me lose interest in the game.

That being said, Shivering Isles was a lot more intriguing because of Sheogorath's complex character, witty dialogue, and the general creativity of the quests in the Realm of Madness. But regular Cyrodiil was so boring it killed the vanilla game for me.

Archaotic

@jfx316: what could you possibly be doing in that game thats taken you 400+ hours and not beaten the main story arc?

ArmyofJuan

@GettinMyGooseOn:

...and I just thought of the fact that you could technically apply this formula to Mass Effect and make a similar argument. Which has a similar 4 or 5 variable in any combination ending sequence. So we already have a game with a huge score of endings.

GettinMyGooseOn

@SynKade:
I love when completests are bitch slapped. Hitting them with an impossible task is the only way to cure their insane behavior. Or it will kill them. Either way, it's fine with me.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

Dammit, I want an Edit Button! But ya, Archaotic. Of course, that's how I feel regarding things and I enjoy going through things and finding all the hidden shit. Remembering our last talk you're not that type of player XP.

SynKade

Yeah, it's gotta be just permutations on a few different elements. If each ending were unique, that would take up like half the disc!

It's reasonably easy to get to over 200 endings this way...imagine there are 5 major ending plot points each of which can end up in one of three ways in any combination:

3 X 3 X 3 X 3 X 3 = 243

So it may not be worthy it to explore every combo...just each of the three values of each plot point, in this instance.

GettinMyGooseOn

I think I need to ask gstaff to wait on giving me a copy..I can't play 200 endings..wow..just wow.

enewtabie

I would imagine they have bits and pieces that mix together to create 200 possible endings.

Also, fucking awesome.

Strangelove

it's not ikely to be 200 completely different endings, there are probably a dozen or so basic patterns and some of the details are affected by in game events (if character X dies, character Y says something different than if they lived etc).

Personally, while it's nice that my actions can affect the outcome of the story a game tells, there's only so much of that I can cope with. Each playthrough of the game is likely to be broadly similar with a few key decisions differing but basically the same areas and objectives (unless it's a super branching setup where each playthrough only reveals a small proportion of the gameworld); I don't want to be forced to do that dozens of times to get to see all the possible endings. Chrono trigger had the right idea, you could use a single new game + playthrough to reveal a bunch of different endings by going to Lavos at a given point, but the game didn't save and reset after you beat it, so you could carry on from that point and get the next ending.

Happykraken

@Archaotic:
All the endings won't be unique, but I'm sure there will be about 12 unique endings. And I disagree with you on the Oblivion issue. To me, it really does have near infinite replay value. I've played for 120 hours now, and I'm only barely getting started. I've done virtually no sidequests, and I haven't even been to the Shivering Isles. I remember one guy played 700 hours on one file, and most people on the forums have created multiple characters. Besides, Elder Scrolls games are never about the main storyline anyway.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

There's no way! 200? Is that really fair to OCD completionists?

Bethesda their blood is on your hands!

*excited grin*

Sicrowell

Am i the only one that thinks this is far too much? Unless, like Surplus said, it goes way of the samurai and by just leaving the town counts as an ending, i do believe this is far too many. maybe 10. 40 different endings even. But 200!?

ArmyofJuan

That's too many and a high percentage of them will probably be worthless. My favorite game is Chrono Trigger and I didn't even feel the drive to get all the endings for that. Wouldn't you HAVE to look at a FAQ to get all those endings anyway? I wonder if these are all well directed endings or just differences in scenes where they show the important NPC you didn't kill or not show it because you did kill him or her.

Hostile

Mew. I hate multiple endings to be honest - because I usually CBA to play through the game, especially a big time intense RPG, a second or third time. When I kinda know the story and all. Wears off a little.

Now imagine playing through a 200th time just to have seen all the endings.

Even watching all of the 200 cutscenes would probably take like 6 hours. Playing to that point every time? Goddamn. GOD DAMN. That's just cruel. Brain, stop calculating! You don't wanna know! ;P

Candlejack

@Archaotic: Total BS? I'm guessing you just ran through the main story and didn't bother doing anything else. Sidequests, when done right, make a game feel alive and many of Oblivions sidequests did that.

SynKade

Only 400 Microsoft Points per ending!

This doesn't sound feasible at all, unless it's a sprite change here or a line of dialogue there.

Still excited though. wooh.

supershavin

Well **** there goes my life.

Again.

VGJ

How many Chrono Trigger endings are there, though?
(# of cats, for example)

Huckleberry

:O ! 200! Thats like, 10x as many as it should have. I always thought 10+ endings was pushing it (unless they work like Chrono Trigger endings).

BassForever

They're not going to be unique. I'll bet you a million there's going to be 12-19 actual endings and the rest are rehashes with minor differences. Still excited.

Voteforme2020

Well, you know what they say: Gotta catch 'em all!

Taco Bell™

meh, 200 different endings could be only 12 proper endings and then loads of slight variations. Alternatively they could be endings that happen half way through the game forcing you to start from the begginning again, aka STALKER.

Still going to buy it :p

Jekht

Ooh, what a bitch Achievement that would be . . . Unlock All 200 Endings. And to make matters worse, they would only make it worth 20 points. What a bitch slap to perfectionists and completists.

SynKade

wow. the fact that i'm 460 hours into oblivion and i'm not even close to beating the main storyline says that if i get this game, i'll never finish it. let alone get 10% of the endings.

sounds awesome though. i'm game to take on this monstrous task.

jfx316

Well, if you define "ending" really loosely, I can see how this or any other game could have 200+ endings.

Ending 1: Killed by gang in Vault 101.
Ending 2: Killed by Mutant.
Ending 3: Killed by Brotherhood of Steel member.

...And so on. I wonder if the Xbox 360 version will mark each instance as an achievement?

exaggeration17a

@darthmole12: I'm thinking that these 200 endings could be a result of variations to the "12 endings" mentioned before, and then variations of those variations.

Somehow I doubt Bethesda wouldn't say "200 endings" for nothing. That would only make the Fallout extremists very very angry.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan, but I'd be happy with 12 endings and 40 hours of gameplay if the quality was along the lines of something like KOTOR. (And stayed true to the canon, of course)

JohnnytheFuture

Don't those endings include ways to die too? Those deaths are endings as well.

thsprgrmscks

200 endings, and 80 hours of gameplay in an open-ended RPG? Didn't people promise shit like this for Mass Effect and Oblivion? Aren't we tired of overblown promises like these yet?

Oh, wait, it's Fallout, so no. People are just going to sit back and accept it, then make excuses for the game when it launches and 198 of those 200 endings are text-only or lacking in any real purpose...or when they realize the game's really only 30 hours long, with 50 hours of sidequest padding. After Oblivion and its "unlimited replay value" ended up being total BS, I'm going to err on the side of caution for this one...then again, I was never exactly hyped for it ever since the first Oblivion With Guns screenshots.

Archaotic

I'm pretty sure he is exaggerating. I always say "This weighs a thousand pounds" but it is probably closer to 20 and I am a lazy P.O.S.

Ghede

@shagari7: Ya God Damn Right! 14 disc game with a 4 hour install, here I come!

SynKade

Score one for replay value! And actually replaying the game 199 times over again!

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

@Witzbold: As do I. I like Both Fallout and the Elderscrolls so either way I'm sure I will love this game.

Rurik

Nice, finally we are in the next gen of gaming.

zombiefrank

Oh my God! this is the craziest and one of the scariest thing i have heard for a game. I mean 200 endings for a single game i bet it will take 2 or maybe 3 bluray to fit that in. More than 60 hours of gameplay, that is mad, hope the gameplay and missions pay off. But this is crazy, i will play it for maybe 3 years before i see a hundred endings. The game looks great from the trailer, they are giving good info, i bet it will wonderful, can't wait for the game

shagari7

I'm guessing he's talking about 200 permutations of the ending. I doubt there are 200 completely unique endings, but rather a much smaller subset of different things that can happen in the ending, depending on what you did during the game.

darthmole12

There's no way I'm buying this. I like living without an addiction.

Actaeus

Ummmm...Please get this game to me now.

ghnvt

200 endings!?! come on u can add 2000 more...

pwn-master3001

Brilliant. Now the real question is... How long until every ending is available for viewing on YouTube?

2NinjasTapedTogether

Are they going by the Way of the Samurai definition of ending where at any point you can leave the town and end the game?

Len Bias Cocaine Surplus

How about just a handful of good ones?

After Bioshock, I'd be happy with just 1 good ending in each game.

OGHowie

Wow, you seriously could play this game forever, although, no doubt three days after release, each ending will be plastered all over the internet. I cannot wait...

JohnnytheFuture

200...endings? all of them unique?

whoa.

Sandbox_Emperor

Holy. Shit.

I hope they execute it well, though. The problem I usually have with these multiple ending games is that usually seeing even a portion of them is sort of tedious.

DeBurgo

Ooooh c'mon! I'm not gonna beat it 200 times!

Han Daimond

200 endings! That could go from inter-dimensional aliens saving humanity from super mutated polar bears, to earth turning into pudding!

MasterOfPastures

I just pray to god that the game will be good.

Witzbold

Brb gotta go clean up the puddle of urine :D

tshack

Do you remember fallout 2? For each town you encountered, there were a number of outcomes for that town that would be enumerated during the ending. For example, in a certain town you could save the mutants, or condemn them to destruction. This would be noted by the game and you would learn the fate of said town during the end game cinematic. This was a great mechanic, and I really wish more RPG's did this. It really made me want to replay the game to see if I could save the mutants this time.

Likely, this is what Fallout 3 is going to do. Say we have 8 towns, and for each town we have (good ending) and (bad ending). That's 2*2*2*2*2*2*2*2=256 endings right there.

Lugubrious

Most likely means a good couple of them are going to be like the Makai/Disgaea series where YOU CHANGED THE NATURAL ORDER! and/or Fear Effect style glorified deaths.

HeartAino

I'm getting the impression most of you have not beaten the original Fallouts. It sounds like Todd is going to do the same thing with three that was done in the first two. Each minor/major story event had two or so different outcomes, and what you did changed the ending. Classic example would be Killian and Gizmo in Junktown. If you helped Killian, the stern Sheriff to take out Gizmo, you got an ending telling you that Junktown was lawful, but no longer prosperous. If you took out Killian, you got that part of the ending telling you that under Gizmo, Junktown grew even though it was corrupt.

Rider_ofthe_storm

I just hope these are different endings, not 10 different ones just with a bunch of tweaks. Though even 10 completely different endings would already be pretty badass.

TalAarahk

Extracted from NMA:

"Fo1 has 19 different endings, with 360 possible permutations. Fo2 has 47 endings with 1,105,920 permutations. If 200 is the number of permutations for Fo3, they are seriously behind. That would correspond to maybe 10-20 endings. But I'm assuming they'd have to be talking about permutations since you should know when designing a game whether you'll have ~12 or ~200 endings. You don't accidentally hop from 12 to 200 endings late in the development process and send in an order for 188 additional voiceovers from Ron Perlman (because he will KILL YOU). With permutations it would be thinkable, at least."

Vecktor