It's a pain, but stopping even a bit does add up to a fair amount of money saved in the long run.

As long as they aren't as stupid about it like the music industry in the States and Europe anyroad.

Kenofthedead

there are so many new similar devices coming out. it will be a pain to kill all the smaller guys indeed.

have fun spending all your hard earned money from the wii/ds in this piracy fight, nintendo. good luck!

diablofreak

I have no opinion one way or the other regarding the fantabulous craptaculous R4 device. None whatsoever.

However, hypothetically speaking, if I did have an R4, I would probably think it was totally awesome, and totally worth the $49.99 USD plus tax that it hypothetically costs, somewhere.

Hypothetically, of course.

Atheist Jew

resident evil 4, just kidding.

dexterr

You know, they're everywhere in South-East Asia =/ You'd find an R4 more likely than a specific DS game in most of the stores...

Still, I actually didn't know those flash carts sell in Japan. It's not that I don't think they not tech-savvy enough to know the advantages of it, I just didn't think it was in their culture =/

Byakko

Doesn't amazon sell them?

One Way Mule

@Bokusatsu_Tenshi:

The Playstation and Playstation 2 didn't exactly have a thriving homebrew scene if I remember correctly. Those generation consoles simply couldn't do anything much beyond playing games (and emulating some old systems).

Why are you comparing a handheld to a home console anyway? It would be more appropriate to compare the Wii to the PS and PS2, and more prolly to compare the DS to...well, there's really nothing else comparable. Even the PSP needs custom firmware to run homebrew, but naturally it has more potential.

Byakko

They wouldn't be acting that way if the DS wasn't selling mountains.
R4s are not only about pirating, they are also about homebrew games and apps.

And it would be far more lucrative if they spent the time and money they use to harass people into stop selling things (that aren't even illegal) to promote homebrew games, start some sort of competition with prizes for independent developers, and try stuff like XBLA... or what Apple is doing with iPhone.

DS users would also welcome that. Even though Nintendo makes no effort in supporting a homebrew community, I've seen awesome stuff like a complete homebrew RPG made for DS (and it looked much better than most DS RPGs, I must add), ports of flash games and a Scumm engine port.

It would be a dust remover for my DS... because quite frankly, I'm kinda tired of the Nintendo usual suspects.

But hay, more money? No thanks! There are already... tons of memory card loaders around there, and people who wants it will find a way to get it no matter how many stores they harass into stop selling them.

It seems it'll take some time for Nintendo to get what made Playstation and Playstation 2 to sell truckloads.

Bokusatsu_Tenshi

Meh.

I have a Max Media Dock that I bought for $15 last year and for the most part, it works fine for me. I only have trouble getting a couple things to run, like a SNES emulator.

OneManFreakShow

I'm sure a lot of stores will just keep a stand separate to the store selling R4's or something.
How is Nintendo threatening them anyway?

tehFluffz

Nintendo made their console to play the games they allow on it. It's their franchise and they have the right to protect it.

If you want an open handheld platform... wasn't the Gizmondo something along those lines?

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

I want an R4 Cart now...

Sailorcancer

I didn't know that were video game stores that sold and advertised R4's like that, I would think that R4's not only hurt Nintendo but also the stores that will sell less games as a result of piracy.

I think that the main gain from this action is not that they are stopping the ability to pirate games, as other people pointed out that there are other devices similar if not better in the market and you can find them all on the internet, but that by making them even a little harder to get and stopping the public advertisement there is the chance that possible buyers won't find out that such devices exist and are less likely to get them.

Personally I only found out about R4 after that article that said that 90% of people had one, and my guess is that many people that would buy somethink like this in a heartbeat don't know about it and are getting their games the legal way thanks to it.

Arguing that Nintendo is evil because by opposing R4's their are not helping homebrew is just absurd. The whole argument that DS users and Nintendo always use to say that the system is the best gaming device ever is that it focuses on being a gaming device instead of trying to be 10 devices in one. People are using the DS for things it was not intended for, mostly illegal, and Nintendo is doing what any other company would do in its place.

Masterpain22

So they stopped the R4... Partially... Regardless of there being nearly 20 different god damn flashcarts. I don't even think the R4 is the best anymore.

This is just another dick move by nintendo. Flash carts are legal. There's a ton of homebrew floating around including MoonShell (Music/VIdeo), DSLinux (Command line OS on the go which can run a ton of stuff), and DSOrganize (IRC Client / File browser / Web browser).

Iron_Dragon_2.0

@Iron_Dragon_2.0: Yeah, there are a lot of home brew apps out there that can be used with an R4, but it's also very true that people are using it to pirate a LOT of DS games. That's the part they're worried about, and rightly so. They don't sell DS's so people won't buy games for them.

Roto13

@Roto13: See I don't feel sorry for nintendo at all. They milk games for every last penny. Iwata has some vendetta against lowering game prices over time. So we get such things as Mario Kart Double Dash being in stock everywhere and $50 at all locations even though the gamecube is dead. I was looking for a controller and found nothing but copies of Double Dash (And no controllers anywhere damn it). Hell even Smash Bros. Melee was a player's choice and they still kept it at $50. What kind of stunt is that?

I'd say nearly 80% of DS games exist just to abuse the fact that they can get $30 for $5 or less worth of development. I own 26 legit DS games and honestly if I want to screw around with a bad ds game not worth buying on my R4 I will.

Iron_Dragon_2.0

@urbanbuddha: I don't think PSP game prices are so bad. A lot of stuff is down to $20 a game (Things like GTA, MGS, and Patapon). This is mostly due to sony lowering prices over time. I'm really tempted to pick up a PSP at this point.

Nintendo on the other hand just won't lower prices and it even affects some 3rd party devs like square. FF 3 [ds] and FF: CC [gamecube] never dropped in price. The final fantasy games on the playstation however always end up as greatest hits avaliable for $20-30.

I'm not really a sony fanboy. I usually hated them in the past but the new nintendo is pissing me off. I've hated them since about half way through the life of the gamecube when I finally realised what cheap bastards they were. Microsoft may micro transaction people to death but Nintendo takes it all up front.

Iron_Dragon_2.0

Eh, I love my R4. It actually gave me a reason to start playing my DS again. Unfortunately, once my wife realized what the card actually does, she now takes the DS to work all the time and I only get to play it like 2 days a week.

I guess I'll have to buy another DS and another R4. Sucks....

Import98

Retailers can stop selling R4s, but it won't stop them from selling the newer flash carts with better compatibility and support for the SDHC microSD cards.

I own a M3 Real for homebrew, imports and the occasional domestic release. If it is a domestic release, I at least buy the game, but at least it stays sealed.

Though, I have to point out I don't like it when new DS games are priced almost the same as some new Wii games. Especially for "Yet another brain training game" or multiple iterations of games, I'm looking at you Capcom. However the same can be said about the pricing for some PSP games as well.

urbanbuddha

@Iron_Dragon_2.0: To be fair, I don't think its all nintendo on the pricing, some of it yes but not all. When I worked at a media store that also sold games, we often had GBA and DS titles for $19.99, based on age and MSRP, where the EB games across the hall of the mall had some of the same titles, based on demand/popularity for $35 and even more; I saw a FF Tactics Advance cart, used, for $50 at an EB at one point when it was still fairly new!

So yeah, part of the problem is that some retailers know the market will continue to bear the original price in the case of some games long beyond the normal period, and that often applies to Nintendo's 1st Party Stuff.

Still, I have no doubts that Nintendo has their share of pricing issues that are their own fault, I've seen enough examples over the many years I've been giving them money ;)

DaiMacculate

My M3 is the best thing that ever happened to my DS. And I buy games. Go figure.

futurebiblehero

Nintendo's been fighting a losing battle against these things since the NES era. Everyone's just adopting them now because info spreads on the net like wildfire.

The funniest chapter to me was when they nuked Bung in court, and mysteriously a little while later, all of their old products started being sold by "Mr Flash!"

I need one of these things myself - Otherwise I'd have to cram my pockets full of those official three-card hard cases until nothing else would fit - and yes, I've bought enough cards to do that. And they're always falling out of the official case because there's nothing to hold them in when it's open and you're grabbing another one. I think they want to ban the "pirate" cards, then make all the games the size of microSD cards and make a case that flings them when you open it so you have to replace lost games every week or so. :p

Also like I implied yesterday, R4 is the only way I can play Phoenix Wright 1 since I spent a month or two looking locally for new or used copies, and even tried to buy it online, but no one had it. I might have ignored the series entirely or just played GBA ROMs of the Japanese games if I couldn't download the first English DS game. Now I've bought the others that were actually available. (Can you steal what isn't for sale? Here in Canada that's been up for debate a few times regarding USA satellite TV signals...)

But I can't really say "just give up, Nintendo!" because that doesn't make sense either to them. But... they don't realize all of what they're quashing here.

fuchikoma

@Iron_Dragon_2.0: Don't get me wrong, there are quality gems for both handhelds. Patapon is a great example (which I own too), but I also own FF:T which cost double. However, retailers are to blame as DaiMacculate pointed out that some places simply just charged more. When FF:T came out for the PSP, EBgames had it for $50 while wal-mart had it for $40. One week later, everyone caved to the $40 price point.

I know at my local stores FF3 went down in price, but not by much, from $40 to $30 (which I snagged when it did). Though the new one is out for $40, but I have no money in my DS funds since FFXII:RW came out.

I think people who buy R4 *solely* to pirate games is because of the price:gameplay quality ratio OR some might want to do the "Rent and Buy" approach and save the rental fee to check out a game if its worth buying or not. To some degree, the latter approach could have some merit with the sheer volume of DS titles no matter how (un)ethical you deem it.

All and all, I think Nintendo should help lobby lower prices or even allow a Wii/DS communication and do digital downloads a la PSP/PS3, but that would mean Nintendo creating a legit (Nintendo branded, of course) flash cart. Nintendo prints money, so I dunno if they'll care much.

urbanbuddha

Nintendo can give money to retailers to not sell the R4 or any other backup device, Nintendo will still win money for sure! Named it like a compensation, a tribute for loyal services? who cares, they can eradicate the piracy in a matter of days if they really want. Then if the R4 company didn't sell any of their backup devices, they surely gives up.

I mean the solution many times can be drastic but effective if you really want to eradicate piracy. So, are you sure you want to eliminate the R4 Nintendo?

Bidule

I like my R4 very much. I do play roms on it (hell, who doesn't), but I find myself spending much more time on the homebrews.

There's a visual novel reader that I have yet to try out. I think it'd be a fun diversion to see how hard it is to port OnScripter games to the DS.

I also spend a large amount of time with Moonshell and ComicBookDS. And Doom. Can't tell you how many times I've played through Doom on my DS.

Rubiximus

I'm in China, but I can't find any flash carts. Something tells me it's because there aren't any people here with a DS. Now what?!

LarryFabulous

In b4 people bitch about the legitimacy of the device.

I love homebrew and use an R4 for it as much as the next guy, but we all know most people buy this stuff for pirating. The people who want this will know how to acquire it and go to the lengths required to do so anyhow.

(I realize some people use it to demo games as well. Just switch "homebrew" above with "demoing games.")

... and I do proudly own an R4. For the homebrew and keeping my game cards all in one location.

So basically, no tears are shed because people can always get this device and others like it online, like I did.

1080Peter

R4?
seriously, the R4 is a great card, but its getting pretty old now.
im surprised that they wouldn't rather go after preventing the development
of new cards.
and all the clone cards (R5) will most likely stay alive.

roflwaffles

@Bidule:

Haha elimintate piracy in a matter of days? are you even aware what you are talking about.

idrisz

I've been working on a DS desktop tower defense-type game for a while now, and being able to test it on actual hardware is really quite neat.

Homebrew is actually all I use my R4 for. Of course I realize that I'm probably in the minority there, but there are certainly those of us who use it legally. Because of that, Nintendo trying to completely ban them seems pretty unfair.

Now if only there was a way to find out actual accurate usage / piracy numbers...

Defiant00

I love my R4. It gave me a reason to pick up my DS again. Homebrew on it is very cool, tons of games ALL OVER the web. Moonshell is cool too. But let's be realistic here. Who wouldn't use it to play releases both domestic and imported?

Come on now, anyone who had a Dreamcast knows how this goes. GD-ROM my ass! Find the ISO, burn, insert disc, yay!

As far as Ninty is concerned, they should really start to focus on getting some digital distribution for the handhelds, like a DS/GB/GBA Wii Channel. That will be there only way to save face during this "crisis". I mean, who doesnt have an emulator or two? And who doesnt have a rom of SMB?? Yeah, I thought so. EVERYONE DOES. Nintendo is still making money off that game. Check your Wii Shopping Channel. Plenty of old games that SHOULD be free at this point.

And if anyone gets preachy about this, youre a bitch. If I put two pieces of pizza on the table and labeled one 30 dollars for one and another for 50 dollars with unlimited slices thereafter, which one is the better deal? Get over yourselves.

Worry about yourselves. Nintendo will be fine. They made a ton of money. This is not the first piracy battle they have fought either, you just know about this one.

NMC ONE WAY

..and yes, today is "Not-check-your-posts-for-typos-or-omissions-before-sending" day. :)

JohnnyLA

Scary coincedence but I was actually looking for an R4 for the past week. They are pretty damn hard to find at ANY retailer I've been too. Either they are out of stock for weeks (which I'm not going to wait for) or they sell double the price.

I know I probably paid WAY too much for it but I got a CycloDS Evolution which does pretty much the same thing or better than the R4. A little pricy especially with the shipping from Germany because I was impatient for the regualr mail (almost $80..heh)

But you know what the funny thing is? The ONLY reason I got the cart is so that I can install the great homebrew "Colors".

[www.collectingsmiles.com]

Having a small wacom-like tablet in my pocket? Definitely worth the price and I would rather jump in now while I can before the corporation start strong-arming everyone...

..which looks to be the case.

JohnnyLA

Why cant American store fronts have Zakus drawn on their signs?

mikevanpwn

Colors is still the coolest thing on the R4 - and it isn't a pirated game.

wild_world_girl

Well, nintendo decided that Brazil in't a "good enough" market, so they don't sell their crap here. importers bring ds games for around 120 US dollars. well EXCUSE ME if I bought a r4. It's not like they wanted my money anyway. I did bought the best of the best (phantom hourglass, pokemon, castlevania) trough ebay. It sucks waiting a month to receive the games.
I do keep my wii blocked, because I hate to mess with firmware, and I like do buy vc games and play online.
Also, no I don't think that they "need" to sell me their stuff, like I'm entitled to it or something. They are a company who made a descision. I just know that they don't care. So I don't care either. As a lot of my friends don't. and maybe, when Nintendo, or microsoft, or sony decide to enter the market here, we'll be used to not caring, and we'll continue doing so.

Bunn

@NMC ONE WAY:

"Plenty of old games that SHOULD be free at this point."

I'm sorry, that's not up for you to decide. It's up to the owner.

It doesn't matter that they've made a lot of money. There's no arbitrary limit, much to your dismay.

This isn't just about Nintendo either...

1080Peter

I applaud Nintendo for doing this.

That is all.

slash000

I got my R4 from Amazon.com two weeks ago for $60. This week the price doubled!

Senen

Is that a metric fuckton?

xRiOT

Confession: I own an R4.

I have just over 40 DS games, which is much more than your average person. Of late I have been unable to afford to spend time with the DS. The value for money isn't the problem, DS has some great games, and are cheaper then all systems. But I own many systems and buy games weekly and don't need my DS as often (no time traveling any more and when im at home I am not a big handheld fan. So I bought an R4. I use it for import games, and the occasional game I wanna try but would never buy, but I also now use it as a tool of "try-before-you-buy" to make 100% sure its worth the time and cash to buy the game. This has actually backfired and I have recently bought some DS games I didn't think I would buy (Ninja Gaiden today, Advance Wars and a few more).

So am I evil? I have put enough money into nintendos hands that I don't feel guilty in all honestly. I also DO NOT pirate any other system.

If anything, the R4 has turned my DS from an occasional system, to one that I play for a good 30mins - 1hr EVERY NIGHT before I hit the hay. I also chill on the couch, or even RIGHT NOW at the comp its running.

So although its not true for all "pirates" I don't think my R4 use can be viewed in too much of a negative way.

If this makes you view more with hate, or if i get blacklisted by a few people (or kotaku... *oh shit*!), then sorry, but thats just how it is. Plus, in all honesty, its legal in my country.

/confession

Scazza

@NMC ONE WAY: "And if anyone gets preachy about this, youre a bitch. If I put two pieces of pizza on the table and labeled one 30 dollars for one and another for 50 dollars with unlimited slices thereafter, which one is the better deal? Get over yourselves."

Your metaphor sucks pretty badly. Flashcarts, when used for piracy, are not at all comparable to a "bottomless" deal. It means you pay once for something you should be paying for every time to support developers, and you choose not to.

Don't consider me getting preachy, I don't think I bought a GBA game for years after the system was released because I bought a flashcart, but there's a difference between not caring about being a pirate and considering your own piracy to be the best solution.

You're a pirate. Get over yourself, you have no moral high ground in this. Stick to what you've chosen to do with your hardware and do it quietly.

Dewgy

<3 my R4

Rokku-Ri

@Scazza: I honestly think you're the exception though. I would really like to think that if I owned an R4 I'd use it in much the same way, like 'renting' it without giving Blockbuster my $$, and that I'd actually buy the game if I liked it. But I've been down that road before with Dreamcast, like NMC ONE WAY briefly alluded to, but if I liked a game that I burned (blank CD's are cheap after all, consider it like being less than a buck to rent a game), I'd honestly buy it. Its how I discovered (and legally purchased after) Chu-Chu Rocket, sealed the deal to buy Power Stone (I was on the fence from reviews...), and made me glad I didn't go out and buy Confidential Mission like I had intended. I like to support companies who products I enjoy, call me crazy.

However, aside from the scant few games I kept and played a lot but never bought, simply because I could never find them at the time (Rez and NHL 2K2 are the only two I can think of right now), I didn't really burn many 'cause a) I'd really just buy the game instead of wasting all that time and effort in finding it, d/l-ing it, burning it, yada yada, and b) is wasn't exactly that easy to find most of the titles you really wanted (or I really wanted anyways). Even if you could, sometimes they didn't fit on a CD-R, blah blah blah. That's all quite different now with R4. The roms are apparently not at all difficult to find (just about any title you'd want, from what I see/hear), and its not exactly a cumbersome task once downloaded. Drag and drop. As somewhat of a 'reformed pirater" from the DC days, whatever that means, that's just too tempting to me, that "all you can eat" mentality is just a few clicks away. A slippery slope indeed.

Say I downloaded Duck Amuck to see if I though it was worth buying (which it is if you're a huge fan of old WB toons like me). Well, its a pretty short 'game' (interactive cartoon best describes it), so in the course of checking it out I'd likely finish it, maybe twice. So I think I like it, and its cheap, so I'll buy it, I go to EB and am going to buy it, but see they have a used copy of Game X for System X for either the same amount, or not much more than Duck Amuck, and I start to see that as a better deal since I've already seen most of what DA had to offer. And its at a good price, being used, so I decide to buy that instead. See who made no money there? Game publishers/developers.

I don't know what leads one to think that since these companies have made a lot of money that they shouldn't be allowed to make any more or something, like they need to be punished, and that they are actually being some kind of anti-hero who's sticking it to the man by being a pirate. Whatever. I see it like this, if the companies stop making money, they stop making games, and who the fuck wins then? Sure, I'd love to think that people would just use their R4's (or whatever) just for homebrew (some of which looks really cool), or to 'rent' titles and buy them later, but in reality that's not why 98.5% of people who buy these devices likely do buy them. They buy them so they don't have to actually buy anymore games. Period. In exactly what way is that good for the industry they claim to enjoy at all?

/ranting

CruiseElroy

@CruiseElroy: But just so you know, even though I have bought SOME of the games I have had on my R4, I still have to admit I have about 30 games on my R4 that are not bad, but i have no intention of buying because I do not believe it is worth paying for. Just wanted to clarify that.

Scazza

@Scazza: Yeah, I think I'd probably be the same way, that's why I don't let myself buy one. I'm keeping myself honest, I guess...

CruiseElroy