Just a reminder that everyone here has the Internet, most probably broadband, and are most probably 'hardcore' gamers too.

There's a possibility that a big online service could damage such a 'family friendly' console. It only takes a few 'my kid was targeted by paedophiles over the Wii' to give a bad impression on the public.

And the chances of Nintendo changing anything with the sales of the Wii? Well, I think we all know that.

Krondonian

@DaveKap: Can't say anything about the Wii, but I never had problems with online games on the DS.. voice chat works fine on games that support it, and I have almost no lag on most games.. Played Jump Ultimate Stars and Mario Kart with random people around the world a lot of times with no lag. I agree that the friend code system is not the best, but it works.. and you have to type the friend code just once.. so it's not so painful as most people say :P

CockroachMan

@Jaysunli:

I think you cant get into SSBB games online anymore because no one even bothers trying because its so bad.

pb00

So far I haven't experienced much lag (at least not so much after an initial start up of a match,) here in the East Coast. I do wish there was a more compressive way to coordinate battles online in brawl.

SuperMekman

@Scazza: Except for the first week or so I haven't had any lag problems when playing with friends. Then again my one friend is 15 minutes walk away and the other is less than 400 miles away. I really don't notice much of a difference between the online and non-online play. Then again it all seems slow to me. My main problem with SSBB online is that you need to have AIM or MSN or w/e running just to get in contact with one another to set up games. That and a general lack of competition when played with randoms in the horrible forced 2 min timed matches.

Anemone

@Mit:
"If I can jump into an 18 player game of Call of Duty 4 within seconds and play without lag on the same wireless internet, I should be able to play Smash Bros. Brawl against one person without lag."

Ha, thats what you think! Nintendo added the lag to enhance gameplay. Soccer moms can defeat seasoned pros. XD

DigitalHero

I stoped playing online after 4 Lagtastic matches. I can only hope that nintendo makes a update to fix this sometime soon.

MURDERFACE

Something must be wrong with Nintendo's framework or something. I never get input lag on brawl, but some others do, and some people get poor connections that they can only play in 2 player matches or they suffer major lag.

Pretty shameful that their online is hit or miss and people playing w/o lag is a severe minority from what I can tell.

超外人

All I know is that I can play Smash online without lag, when using a good connection. Good enough for me. We always knew this wouldn't be filled with feautres and Sakurai himslef said it would be very hard not to have lag.

Hellfire

It's about as full-featured as the original NES modem. So, yes -- FAIL.

onidavin

I'm going to have to say I'd rather play on PSN than my Wii online. That's saying a lot coming from me.

bluesquareapple

If I could play with anyone online without control lag, anyone, I'd be fine. I don't care about friend codes, I don't care about lack of communication, nothing. I just want to play without lag.

I haven't been able to though, despite having good internet. I shouldn't have to DMZ my Wii and play with someone who is also DMZ'd and uses the same ISP in order to play without lag.

If I can jump into an 18 player game of Call of Duty 4 within seconds and play without lag on the same wireless internet, I should be able to play Smash Bros. Brawl against one person without lag.

Mit

@Aethyr: /agreed

greygecko

I just random battle everytime, I didn't feel any less enjoyment and didn't really get any lag. Before Brawl I never played anything else online so I can' really say anything about those games but I didn't think that Brawls online was bad at all.

Balmung576

" It should have been a communication platform first and a family console second."

You think Nintendo's new game console should concern itself MORE with being a "communications platform" than being a GAME CONSOLE? WTF.

BTW,I don't know if anyone's tried to play recently,but,uh,it works now. I just played it in fact,it works every time. Unfortunately,it still doesn't have voice chat,so I have to settle for just enjoying the game instead of hearing "I want a motherfuckin chocolate milk." :(

kidnicky

Hey, it works for me. It may not have voicechat or an easy interface, but we should be glad that Nintendo is even dipping its foot into the online pool.

Aethyr

So far, my experience playing with random opponents has been a resounding failure. It was painfully laggy.

But playing with friends only, and communicating via aim made it not so bad...

ekkobi

I just wished they got rid of the whole friend code thing before the Wii came out. It's such an annoying way to do online gaming, even amongst friends. I'd rather they set up usernames like other consoles, but I just don't see that happening now.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@DaveKap: Friend codes, as in the concept of having to mutually agree with somebody in some other medium before you can play with somebody, by typing in a number? That's fine. It's really not a problem. The problem is everything else:

1) No voice or text chat - I understand why they don't allow this with random strangers, again that's fine, but with friends? When they've already made at least one DS game that allowed it? There's really no reason to prevent this (if you were able to exchange codes you obviously have another way to communicate with the person, so there's no security issue). It's just shit.

2) No online communication outside of games and sending each other email. You can't see who's online and what they are playing; you can't chat with them to arrange playing a game; you can't even see whether they have a game you might want to play.

3) Different friend codes for each game. WHY GOD WHY.

If they solved these three problems, they'd have a coherent system that took on board their security concerns but allowed people to play online in a sensible manner. Sadly, they aren't going to do so (maybe #1, eventually, but not the others). Ah well. Perhaps next system.

quen

Its online was a failure. I talked alot of crap about Smash before release, and then decided to give it a try. The online portion was horrible though the game overal was decent.

DigitalHero

The release of SSBB has shown without a doubt how poorly Nintendo has handled their online functionality. Friend Codes were bad enough, but complaints of failed registration of Brawl Codes(even with both parties entering codes) abound, horrible, game-crippling lag, and frequent drop outs make online basically a waste of time. Even when you do manage a decent connection (emphasis on *when*), the lack of any kind of communication with people you're playing against renders the experience lifeless. For all I know, and for all I can tell, I'm fighting against faceless, lifeless bots. Let's be honest here: through all the hype and hoopla this game has recieved, it has been criminally understated how badly Nintendo fucked everyone over with online play.

Luv2Hate

@Scazza: Things are not gimmicks because they are bad, they are gimmicks because they are gimmicks, in the case of super smash bro's brawl, if online play had not been wtfx screwed up, it would be probally the best feature of the game, so its not a gimmick its just bad

D Mitsuki

Signed.

Having to coordinate with friends outside of the network kind of nullifies its usefulness. It reminds me of back in the day, playing Doom via modem connections. Having to call them, give them the ok to call my machine, yelling at my parents to not pick up the phone...
well, not the last part, but overall, Wii online service feels so antediluvian, I normally just skip it.

half-beast

Many people here have said it and I'm of the same opinion: Nintendo will not fix their online functionality this console generation; they will probably fix it up with their next console.

I also think they're going to be FORCED into providing better online-functionality with their next console. Nintendo made a console that tapped into the gaming needs of the masses who had never really experienced any video games before. Great, but chances are that the same people who bought the Wii will not so easily buy Nintendo's next console in 3-4 years. Why? Easy, they're casual gamers. They couldn't care less about upgrading to the next console (PS2 sales anyone?). So Nintendo's next console probably won't be such a big hit as the Wii was and since some form of motion-sensing will most likely be implemented in the next Xbox and playstation, Nintendo will end up having to compete with some other features like online.

Back to Brawl in particular though, since the lag of the matches is dependent on the connections of the players I'm sure in due time people will stop connecting online using a crappy wireless connection coming from their neighbor's house. So while lag might disappear from Brawl's online, there's probably no chance in hell of more online features for any of Nintendo's games this gen.

NeoAkira

@Scazza: The Wii is the king of gimmicks though.

hikaizer

I just hope Nintendo is seeing where Brawl needs improvements and applies it to Mario Kart.

Green-clad Gamer Dude

@D Mitsuki: The sarcasm is so strong you could cut it with a butter knife.

Scazza

For the first two days the game was out I could play online just fine. I hadn't added any friend codes yet but playing with random people was fast and fine.

Now, however, I can not find a single game at all and most of my friends who I've exchanged codes with are not recognized at all. As if they are still being registered.

I didn't really expect anything from the Wii's online performance and what do you know thats pretty much exactly what I got.

Jaysunli

@DaveKap: For the DS, the online play isn't that bad. The lag for most DS online games is not important (like Advance wars) and even metroid worked pretty good. But your right, the Wiis implementation makes no improvements over the DS system and its effectively broke.

@scotty: I dont mean gimmick in that all online play is. I mean that in the case of SSBB, its a gimmick to me, cuz SSBB should be played local only really. Its too laggy and even with minimal lag it just isnt quick enough or social enough then having someone beside u. Gimmick in that way...

Scazza

@Scazza: I completly agree, in this day and age its not important to play other people around the world, its not the selling points of games or anything. Online is a distant second compared to things like menu's, i mean if a game has a bad menu, why would we buy it, i dont want to play people around the world because my friends suck, i want to see a pretty way to choose characters. I think nintendo should get rid of there online service because its so bad its not even acceptable in last gen and add in more defined menu's, and diffrent color pointers, because those arent gimmicks, those are the reasons we buy these games.

D Mitsuki

I've honestly given up on Nintendo for online play. I'd rather just play against computers than play online in a lag-infested pile of crap.

I camped out for the freaking Wii on launch and all it has done is disappoint me with some of the biggest titles.

This was the one that I thought couldn't be screwed up, but Nintendo and their "family friendly" way of dealing with things have decimated what could have been a fun online experience.

Ignatius

What i hate, is playing online, and you see him on, and he's playing in the public brawl, AND THERE IS NO WAY TO LET HIM KNOW THAT YOU ARE ON AND WANT TO PLAY WITH HIM.

Thas pretty ghey >_>...

R1co281

@scotty:
second... Oh dear god...

Demonbird

@Scazza: I can't believe you just called Online play a gimmick.
That's like.....wow.

Damn Scazza, what the hell, you made me lose my words. :|

scotty

a smashing failure indeed. For people that really enjoy online play the Wii service is unacceptable. Most people who think it is fine or unnecessary to support online usually just don't use it as much as some of us or think of it as being unsocial or stupid to play with people who aren't sitting next to you. I find online play through services like XBL to be very social and enjoyable. I like voice chat and I love the interface. Nintendo's wi-fi connect is just such a travesty of online "play." Then again, Nintendo doesn't support gamers like me anymore. what can we expect them to do?

Demonbird

@Lstormy10: "In addition, a good part of the lag in online games for Brawl is the fault of people having crappy connections."

Most of those I've played with have good connections. Another issue is that the CD often needs to be read off of mid-game, which only aggravates the problem.

kuraitenshikun

Nintendo's online functionality has been fundamentally broken since it was introduced through the Nintendo DS. It's both technically (lag) and functionally (friend's codes) broken and it will not be fixed with a patch. Let's face it... during the DS and Wii generation, we will not see a Nintendo game that has "good" online.

The only saving grace will be when new generations of hardware come out, post DS and post Wii. I still suspect Nintendo will drop this ball, as Microsoft and Sony have already set a standard that will be hard to beat.

The point? We all already know this. So why the hell doesn't Nintendo know this?

DaveKap

Yea the online play sucks on the Wii, its not going to change either. Nintendo has little reason to when everyone is buying the hell out of the system.

Kyle81

It can't ever be fixed because there is no network, and they don't care either way. I am calling it now; SSBB will be just as horrible at the time of the Wii's death as it is now. The sooner you start thinking of Nintendo like George W. Bush the better, as rather than stressing you'll just give up.

Bobby McPresscott

tell me something i dont know

greygecko

Sigh, Nintendo did screw up with it's online side of things in many small ways.
Like everyone here, I'm also hoping they get their act together with their next console.

scotty

100% Agree. Its cumbersome enough just to get online with friends, but then most of the time it doesnt even work. I still cant get a random game going on SSBB.

pb00

In my opinion, it was near on unplayable at launch. I don't know if its gotten much better, I gave up on the games online. Even if it was near lag free, it still dosnt touch playing local MP. Its one of only a small number of games that should only be played local MP. Online is just a nice gimmick imo.

Scazza

Smash doesn't even let you on half the time with the errors. Seeing as how Nintendo responded to that with a "Keep trying!", don't expect the broken online to get any better.

It's actually getting worse...Pay to Play. Hur...ray....

jonathan

I'd also like to add that even if online play had voice chat and nametags, it still would be nothing compared to the joy of having four people in the room screaming as the Smash Ball flutters around.

Ninja-Z

Even though its suppsoed to be easy and good for everybody, i have found this alot harder then turning on my xbox and going to join -enter matchtype i like here-, istead i have to go onto my computer get yelled at by my dad (im not allowed to go on the computer and console at same time) find a opponent tell them rules we want then not be able to tell them how much they suck unless i go back to computer get yelled at, and this is when its working at its best, i dont even wanna talk about how lag has killed so many good match's

D Mitsuki

Its not just the lag-- yesterday 4 of us played SSBB and my friends were using their CELL PHONES to talk during the match. Nintendo totally missed the boat with this system. It should have been a communication platform first and a family console second.

jarjarwang

Yes, there were quite a few matches which just about died from lag, but other than that online play was alright. Granted, it's no X-Box Live but I guess going in with no expectations but standard, friend code plagued, no voice chat / name tag online play helped soften the blow. I knew what I was coming into.

I'd like to see improvement too, but I think the bigger problem right now is the Wii's data storage. Just a thought.

Ninja-Z

I still have high hopes that Nintendo knows what they're doing, and that once they have online capabilities for a little while, they will figure out what to do. I still hold my position that the Wii is unique in that it's really about gathering together with friends, not playing in cyberspace with strangers. Games like Brawl should certainly have online functionality, but Nintendo is pretty new to this game. Once they get the ball rolling, I'm sure they'll be fine.

Plus, playing Brawl with three of your friends in the same room is still one of the best gaming experiences out there. I'm of the opinion that online is truly secondary in this case.

peAr_nectAr

Why old, unofficial boxart? :(

There are some good points raised, but the problems are mainly with online inside games, not online outside of games for other channel activities. In addition, a good part of the lag in online games for Brawl is the fault of people having crappy connections.

Nintendo does need to step it up a bit when it comes to online.

Lstormy10

You know, the few times I played it online I had no problem. I didn't know anyone else I wanted to specifically play with, so no friend code hassle. Just went straight to "Play with anyone" and waited a moment, then had a full match, and played with little to no lag.

It all worked well for me. But I guess I'm the exception to the rule.

Unknown-User

Just update the damn feature already will ya. I´m sick of searching for people with number codes instead of nicknames or emails... I feel like i´m with ICQ again.

Wyld

Well, what to say...he's right

vaterunser

*sigh* The unremitting lag really didn't augment my desire to play.

kuraitenshikun

@Lstormy10:

Crappy connection? Millions of players have crappy connectiond? Including my DSL? And more, only for the Wii? (My PS3 has no problem online.)

No no. You have it wrong. Nintendo just messed up. Period.

remanance

@Apreche:
As far as I'm concerned, you don't know what you are talking about.

Lstormy10

Honestly, I've not had too much of an issue with Brawl's online play, and have enjoyed it immensly o.o

Usually, I just have my laptop on, and am connected to a chat room full of friends, a bunch of which have brawl. Granted, that might not be the norm for most people, but it works for me.

Also, the lag seems to be based on distance and each person's own connection. Mine was horrid until I changed a slight router setting. Then, it was fine. Now, I play with friends in Alberta, California, Vermont, Conneticut, and all over the US and Canada, and it's mostly lag free for all, and pristine with closer friends.

Am I just like, lucky, or what? o.o;

diablodevil2

@Apreche: Same here.. Although the DS is pretty decent in some cases, but cheating really #$%#^#%@# things up there..

Katorok

@kuraitenshikun:
I have also had a majority of my online brawls be pretty much lag free and good, but I have experienced a few where a new player joins the brawl and the whole thing lags badly.

Lstormy10

As far as I'm concerned, the Wii and the DS do not have online functionality.

Apreche

The friend codes are simply a nuisance when different for each game. Then you have wiiconnect24 features being seperate. With PES2008 I'd have to register two sets of friend codes for one game if I want to play their champion's road team too.

Mario Kart Wii is supposed to change things, but it seems to be on the random player side rather than friend matches. The co-op online looks nice though.

I haven't got Brawl (I don't know when it is out in the UK) so I haven't seen the lag it offers. It sounds terrible though.

sporkhead

aye, it sucks. What really gets me is the horrendous lag :[[[

hotgarbage

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

Don't worry, you're not.

leoPirate

i bought brawl at launch, tried to play online and no luck, the next morning i tried again and no luck, later that night i tried yet again and no luck, then i called nintendo which had an automated "smash bros is so unfunctional online that we need to put a message stating so on our root menu. try again later"
then i waited a few more days trying each night, only finding 2 extremely laggy matchups within the time, and now, its been weeks and smash bros got the least amount of play time of any video game ive ever purchased.
so is nintendo wfc a smashing failure? definitely.

buttpwner

@Krondonian: Point taken.

But in response to allegations that the Wii's online support sucks; well, yeah, it does.

TruPhan

@ zer0zen: absolute brilliant post. i agree 100%. i used to be a nintendo fan. wii has totally alienated me to the point im considering selling the wii and my ds and never supporting nintendo again. i can't be the only person feeling this way.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

I'm surprised that amidst all the semi-valid points the guy has, he never brings up the atrocious lag experienced online.

leoPirate

a smashing failure? what is this guy talking about? Wii online is a megaton failure. it's so bad i stopped playing brawl. nintendo wifi is the worst service to arrive in the last decade. i've said this time and again, if the console supports parental controls, then why do we have friend codes? why can't we have voice chat? why can't i see my friends online or what they're playing? it's sad and nintendo refuses to fix this piece of shit service. they could have made a my friends channel that featured friends lists, miis and all of the standard features of online play. whats the point of releasing a game like battalion wars when you can't coordinate anything in team battle online?

gamecube should have had wii's success. wii needs to die. so much squandered potential. people should stop buying it, stop supporting it and accept it for the rip off it is.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

After being on the street for this long, many Wii owners are wondering when Nintendo is finally going to implement their "online strategy."

The problem, my friends, is that Nintendo has implemented their online strategy. This is it.

Titles with online components worth using are few and of a quality that borders on the sort of excellence you'd expect out of Dustin Hoffman's character in Rain Man.

Effective online features in games are now a standard for core gamers, something they now expect from a $50 or $60 purchase. Casual gamers on the other hand will want to connect to the ubiquitous Wii in their friend's home as well if the right title was there. Imagine the lost opportunity of an elderly gamer wanting to play Wii Sports Tennis with their grandkid a few states away. If Nintendo made that easy to do, you can be sure they'd try it, afterall, who expected them to take to the Wii so affectionately in the first place?

The inept fight Nintendo has made to let the world know they care about online functionality will contribute lethally to Nintendo's future. The Wii will be limited to the casual games ghetto from which it will be permanently labeled a "my first console" type of platform, a PlaySkool of videogames that you start with only to "graduate" to the Sony or Microsoft offerings.

Nintendo wants to avoid this, but they've instead plotted a course directly toward it in their blue ocean. A staggering number of casual gamers will cut their teeth on Wii and learn about the nuances of video games only to want a richer experience Nintendo won't offer.

Nintendo is growing the userbase for Sony and Microsoft's next console. They should thank Nintendo for helping them do something neither could do.

How will Nintendo respond? They won't. They've become humble in business but also insulated from the progressions of the video game industry. Nintendo has done an incredible job of getting gamers to embrace Wii, but they've done nothing to keep them there.

A rich, well-thought, online experience is one necessary component of the formula to keep them loyal to Nintendo.

This generation is the first time I've bought a non-Nintendo console and I have to say I'm glad I did. My Wii get played occasionally, but my friends are all on the other consoles, so that's where I spend my time, with my friends, on another console.

zer0zen

The problem with Nintendo's service is without friends it feels so isolated. You cannot "create" a match or view any joinable matches, you simply let it do it all for you and because you don't get this level of interactivity it limits the online experience. Mario Kart will work well if it is fast finding matches and it probably depends on whether many people are online. With two-player co-op this should fill-up player spaces quickly.

However the friends system definitely is a let-down, and makes it hard to organise matches. The experience is also not consistent. Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 is okay lag-wise but this is down to it only letting you play people from the UK.

Compared to what I've played of Team Fortress 2 on the PS3 where it takes 2-3 seconds to find matches or get into a quick match(before loading) and there's a world of difference.

sporkhead

@DigitalHero: Mario Kart Syndrome!

Krondonian

@Wyld: Ahh yes... ICQ, hated it. Kind of reminds me of Nintendo WiFi.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

I have had no lag whatsoever, nor any drop outs.

Protodude

I live on my own, so the lack of an even decent online system is just about the only thing keeping me from getting a Wii.

Lanhoj

@ Mrmoo2002: im thinking the same. if mario kart is busted, my wii is getting sold.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Leanid:

I guess you and everyone you know have stayed in one town/city since the first game and have no need to connect online in a lag/hassle free environment, lucky you.

mugido

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.:
Reference my comment to remanance above.

Lstormy10

Well it shouldn't really matter. The Wii really isn't supposed to be played online, it should be with other friends. I either play brawl with my friends or just against the computer. I don't see the difference between playing a CPU and a stranger online. If anything at all, the CPU will be better and if not and you are that damn good, play team battle, 3 on 1 all level 9's and see how that one works out. Now your thinking, "But I want to play with my friends online." STOP! Get your lazy ass up to your friend's house or tell him to come over your house and play the game how it is supposed to be played.

Shukaku

I'm sorry you guys have such problems with lag; I really haven't seen it except in a handful of games, and thats the honest truth. I'll outline my solution once again: make the Wii the DMZ or Default Host on your router, and if that router supports it you should assign it a static IP using MAC addressing (you look up the Wii's MAC address, which is in xx:xx:xx:xx:xx:xx, in the network settings), or you can just set a manual IP on the Wii outside your DHCP range and route the DMZ/Default Host that way. Anybody with more specific questions about that can message me on my profile, I'll try to answer, my knowledge of your brand of router (or possible lack thereof) is the only limit on that ;)

I went from getting that 88580 error every time I tried to play to at least getting a match every time. Often there is lag in the first 15-45 seconds, which is sucky I agree, but I've found its usually one bad player, probably someone with, ironically, really poor router settings/shared connections/roomate running torrents/etc themselves. Often that one guy playing Ike quits, we pick up a Pikachu or a Zelda and the lag more or less vanishes ;)

Now, does the fact that I've reduced lag significantly (and eliminated it in at least 3/4 of matches) and gotten working matches excuse the other failings of the online? I don't think it does either, but I do think its still something Nintendo can and hopefully is working to improve, its a little extreme to call for a boycott just yet. Its not a mature platform, does nobody remember the joys of early online matches on XBL with games like MechAssault? Sure it got better, because MS fixed it, but yeah, give Nintendo time for Smash patches and one or two more big 1st party online titles before you give up.

Smash was obviously in development before the Wii was even conceived, to hold it so they could fix every single online MP issue would have pushed it into Summer/Fall for sure....I seem to remember much gnashing of teeth over just a 1 MONTH delay of the game.

*Just a small qualification, I'm not at all a Smash Master, was only marginally involved with the GC game and I've played the 64 one exactly twice, though I'm digging Brawl. So it may be that even what I've classified as negligent lag or lag so slight I didn't notice has a much greater effect on people used to pulling off moves with more speed and precision that I possess. I can only compare it to the online in games like CVS2 for Xbox1 or Gulity Gear for XB1, which was horrid, the CVS2 problems famously referred to in one of my favorite PA strips....compared to those games, I can count on one hand out of all the online matches I've played that were even close to that laggy, since I messed with my router ;)

DaiMacculate

@Demonbird: hey now, the gamecube wasnt bad, man.

TheIrishNinja

@remanance:
I never said that Nintendo doesn't have a hand in the problems, but your comparison may be flawed.

The connection for online on Wii for anything else but Brawl is totally fine and lag free from what I have played. The internet browsing and store downloads are very snappy.

Brawl uses a P2P system. The connection is directly between your Wii and the other player's Wii - no servers in between. When the other player has a bad connection (which millions of people do have - slow DSL offerings that people get for the price are one of the worst offenders when it comes to slow broadband), you experience lag and dropped frames.

The worst lag on the Wii thus far is virtually exclusive to Brawl because of the fact that it is P2P and people are playing with crappy connections.

So, I am sorry to say that you misunderstood me and that I don't have it wrong, but yes, Nintendo has some issues to work out still.

And by the way, bad lag and other connnection issues vary based on game, not system (i.e. SSBB on Wii for some players, TF2 on 360 for some players, RSV on PS3 for some players).

Lstormy10

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Why the ds hate? The ds rox in every way imaginable

D Mitsuki

@ Lstormy10: huh? dude my ps3, psp and 360 use the same connection and router as my wii. guess which unit plays the worse online? face it nintendo blew it. you know what's really sad... metroid prime hunters featured a lobby system with voice chat, text chat, friends lists, rivals lists, a ranking system all on ds. i STILL can't get a damn answer as to why that feature set didn't become a standard. most ds games i played online were lag free. what happened with wii? i can jump into warhawk right now with 31 people and get a lag free game. resistance supported 40 and i've played 40 player tdm and ctf matches where lag was an issue maybe once or twice in months. what's nintendo's excuse?

nintendo says they support the hardcore and casual gamer alike. they lied. they will continue to lie. wii does not support features that have been standard since last generation on xbox. nintendo is too cheap to provide infrastructure that works. we STILL haven't gotten a answer to why top tier wii games still look like glorfied gamecube titles. nintendo fucked us.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

I know a lot of people are saying, "Oh well the next set of consoles will probably be better." but I don't see any reason to really support Nintendo on home consoles beyond the wii or expecting them to fix anything. Two in a row that were disappointments. All they can do right is portable systems and even then they have miles of improvement that should be made.

Demonbird

when i got my Wii the first thing i said is "if they cant get online multiplayer to work on SSBB then Nintendo will have totally failed"

Yet all they can do is

- 2min matches only. No stock = fail
- Spend more time in the punching bag room/character select screen than you do actually playing
- INtermittent lag
- no communication at all. "Wii would like to play....but dont talk to us"

There is absolutely NO excuse for them to not be able to get this to work. Even BNet back from the days of Starcraft was a hundred times better and more functional than this. If they cant get this to work for mariokart, a game that absolutely would benefit from it, then I'll probably just sell it (wouldn't lose much money either)

Mrmoo2002

I still don't see what the big deal is about online. It might be a valid point if you're new to the game and bought it because of hype, but for those of us that have enjoyed the original or Melee enough to warrant a purchase of Brawl, did not having online hurt either of them?

We're all essentially complaining about a feature that wasn't a main selling point for the game in the first place. Brawl was designed with local multiplayer in mind. I prefer the independent direction that Nintendo is going; I started with consoles because it offered games that I couldn't get on PC. We don't need ANOTHER PC copy-cat console (so many damn shooters!), even if the direction Nintendo is going doesn't appeal to me.

Leanid

@lifeinthefridge:

We make you lag? Sorry. :P But we need those 50 other things connected to the wifi. XD

remanance

As they days go by and I stare at that white block beside my tv, I begin to wonder more about why I shelled out so much cash for the thing. Its hard to put into words the emotional letdown I felt when I realized how shoddy the online experience is.

Jest

I'd just like to acknowledge something to those trying to access brawl online. Yes we know the service sucks, but honestly your dsl modem hooked up wireless from across the house, thats being connected to 3 other things, is not good enough....YOU MAKE ME LAG....!!!! I have a verizion fios 20/5 modem 3 ft away from my wii, and I still suffer from laggy battles all the time .

lifeinthefridge

What else can be said?

When you center your entire online plan against the fear of pedophilia, of course the service is going to be lackluster.

jinpei05

It was partially acceptable on the DS, but then they brought this backwards online system to the console and while I'm ok living with it, it really pains me that Nintendo would ship such an amazing game with such a lackluster online system.

We know it's possible for companies to create good online systems on the Wii so it's not the consoles fault.

KanoBlade

Well I've always thought that Smash Bros was given online play purely to satisfy Sakurai who wanted to make Brawl special, so Nintendo of course implemented it half-assed, however I think we should look to Mario Kart as the true Wii online test as it was, the ability to have your license, record wins and losses and also communicate with people is a step-up....but thats a step up a huge online stairs where Microsoft is at the top

excel_excel

I understand what they are trying to do family/safety-wise, but it is horrid in function and annoying where it doesn't have to be. I don't even want voice chat or anything, but I hate it feeling like I'm playing a computer when I play online. No tags, no personality. It's just lame. And you can't even tell when you are playing the same person again. And there are really no rankings. Smash Bros worked fine for me online, and it's fun, but it would be so much better to meet people online playing and THEN add them as a friend, not vice versa.

MJDeviant

Pear_nectar

Well then - online shouldn't have been touted so heavily by Nintendo in the first place. They displayed nothing but 100 percent confidence in bringing online and they did infact fail. They used Reggie to hype up something that wasn't entirely fleshed out.

Kempatsu

You get what you pay for.

exkon

@Wyld:
At least with ICQ you could search by handle, e-mail address and more. Wii Codes offer no way to search for a friend.

StupidDufus

I'm sorry, but Nintendo WiFi is just a failure in general. It sucked on the DS, and it sucks on the Wii. Nintendo REALLY needs to revamp it.

Sailorcancer

i thought it's ok :/

oh well. not like it'll be as good as XBL or PSN. what do you expect? Nintendo is always a bit late when it comes to things like that. (no gamecube online)

Akmed

I agree with the Wii being terrible for interacting with your friends. But then again, I don't know anybody that also owns a Wii!

Spiderbait

I've managed to play a grand total of 5 online brawls -- 2 with lag so bad it literally looked like a slide show. Not for lack of trying. The first thing I do every time I put in the game (which is nearly every day) is sign on and wait in the practice area until I'm inevitably booted. Even the DS was better than this when they entered the online world. As good a game as Brawl is, the online was a major selling point and this is going to bite Nintendo in the ass (for example, I won't be buying Mario Kart Wii anymore, as I won't trust its online to work).

Sloopydrew

And XBox live was fucking awesome right off the bat, right?

Tizlor

@Leanid:

The problem (as a few have mentioned) is that the last times a Smash bros game came out, I was in school and thus around friends who liked to play video games. As a college grad that's no longer the case, and that is the difference between now and then.

Not to mention the standards have changed.

Guitaratomik

While I don't have Smash Bros., the few online games that I've played on the DS gave me a taste of the fun potention of online gaming only to be crushed by Nintendo's crappy "online" service.

Trading on Pokemon was cool for me. "Oh hey, I'm trading with someone in Europe" But there was no way for me to communicate with that person.

On Tetris DS, each random battle had no ranking system. In one game I would play against prob the top players whom kill me instantly. The next game, I'm playing against someone that sucks more than me (no challenge).

While Mario Kart DS's system was more fun, again, w/o a ranking system I kept on getting killed. Everyone snaked while I was still trying to learn the course. Why can't a "newb" play against another "newb."

Dragon Quest Monster Joker. That game was so broken. The first few days, I was doing ok with my slime team. After that, everyone had their level 99 legendary monsters while. I stopped playing after that. What's the point of me leveling up my team when "everyone" is cheating.

As for voice chat, I really do not understand Nintendo's fear of that? Is it that hard to add a "MUTE" function? If the guy is a jerk or pedo, just block him. It's not hard.

Nintendo is all about fun and easy for everyone. But how is it easy when Grandma has to learn her Friend Code for Game A, & then ask her grandkids for their codes. And if she wanted to play Game B, she has to do that all over agian. How is that simple & fun for Grandma? For anyone?!

I apologize for the rant. It's just that I'm very frustrated with Nintendo. While I never expected Nintendo to have a great online service, common sense told me that they would, at least, have a basic, easy-to-use one. At least drop the Friend Codes!

cantbeatmegaman

@Scazza: .../facepalm.

NPlace

@ D Mitsuki: because my ds didn't get touched for weeks until ninja gaiden came out. even though its nice, i find myself playing psp more. god of war was the final straw. although, wipeout pulse and monster hunter freedom 2 get a lot of play too. i still have syphon filter and ff7: cc to play. i've been playing my ds less and less over the months.

@ DaiMacculate: i see your point but look at it this way...if brawl ran as good as mkds when nintendo wifi debuted, i wouldn't call for a boycott. nintendo knew online support was crucial for this generation and said as much. they still couldn't get brawl ready for online play? you give instructions for setting a router but that goes against nintendo's user friendly plug and play sales pitch. many of the people supporting wii doesn't even know what a router is. there's no excuse. none. im talking about nintendo wifi in general not just brawl.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

@Shukaku: some of my friends live hundreds of miles away yet we all own a Wii and SSBB. Tell me again why I shouldnt expect to be able to play with them? Beating a computer bot is not a replacement for multiplayer. If nintendo had actually gotten this right, creating

- score tracking, ladders, and leaderboards
- individual identities/handles
- different match selections
- some way to communicate

...can you imagine how many people would be playign THAT game right now?

Mrmoo2002

@mugido: You know... a person can make new friends right? Also keep in mind that they're not tailoring the game to your needs, despite what you may believe from their PR. Nintendo has normally targeted most of their games to the younger crowd, young enough to still be in school together. You can cite Nintendo's PR all you want, but who's fault is it if you believe everything their PR department says.

Like I said, Nintendo should just go with their own direction even if it doesn't appeal to me. I had fun with them when I was in school, and I'm sure kids now are having fun like I did. Sure, it would be nice to have a game that had everything I wanted, but it would be arrogant of me to expect it. I buy the things I enjoy, and skip those that I don't.

Leanid

It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the HORRID lag. I mean it's unrelentingly bad.

I'm still trying to figure out why Smash Bros. is the only game with this problem. Aren't there other online Wii games? Don't the DS games work just fine?

TRT-X

You know something? It does suck. No VoIP (and you really miss that sometimes when playing with family), no stats, no easy way to add friends (friend codes suck).

Erwos

It pains me to say, but Brawl's online is simply unacceptable. It's deplorable in relation to the refinement in other areas of the game, and I'm willing to put my fanboyism aside and admit they they genuinely fucked up a great opportunity.

Although, I'll admit friend codes and no communication may be shortcomings, but genuinely: I love Mario Strikers Charged online. Even with these Nintendo online cliches, Strikers team online is fantastic fun. The matchmaking actually works, the modes are acceptable, and everything runs smoothly. Oh, and there's a ranking system! However primitive it may be, it at least gives you an idea of who you're playing. When all these simple things come together, it helps to look past what may be at fault. But the lack of random team matches and the like in Brawl gives way for a whole list of complaints.

Gloibin

@Anemone: Try throwing items if youre going for a good combo, i can ussually get 5+ hits if im doing good on a friends Wii.
But if you dont want to use Items your best bet is Shiek IMO.

GUNDAM-RX-78-2

I don't see how anyone can play Wii games online or take Nintendo as being serious about competing online. They know it sucks. They have to at least seen the online menus and integration for other game. Even the PSP has a better online system than the Wii....

Maybe they actually just don't care? Their devs are dealing with the lack of online support swimmingly and they're raking in boatloads of money in spite of the crap they give. Maybe it'll catch up with them eventually, but it hasn't hurt them so much as of yet. They still sell out every place they show up. It's practicallly printing money for them. So why should they care?

As a Wii-S3 owner, I am disappointed with the quality of of some of my online play options. Moreso with the Wii...

Last_Raven

I actually usually just boot up my 360, start a chat with the person there, switch over to the Wii and voila, voice chat in Brawl. Lag between my friends has been pretty much nil.

EggmaniMN

I don't mind the Wii service... when I get games, they're usually unlaggy and pretty fun.

But it's down WAY too often (i.e. right now)

Naelok

I must be really lucky.....I have never experienced ANY lag while playing this. Very Strange.

Mogambi

@DaiMacculate: Don't worry you're not missing too many skills in Brawl for not having played the others excessively. I actually stopped playing Melee in anticipation of playing Brawl because I knew it would be different. Even then it took me a few matches to learn that I couldn't do many of the things that were essential to proper Melee play. Brawl also has less juggling. Most of it now requires a wall to go past a 4-5 combo. Brawl plays differently enough from the others to consider it a moderately even field. So far there isn't much of a hidden set of moves that would separate people. It just comes down to smart play, character match-ups, and stage selection.

Anemone

That's whta I say about a second version of the Wii coming in a few years... Just like there was a Super Nintendo for a Nintendo, there should be a Super Wii for the Wii. The name would not go away and the fans would be happy in getting something in the ten years (yeah right) that Sony will wait until there is a PS4.

Sideshowbob

Yeah iv always thought the Wii's online services was kinda dumb.. a long ass friend code for every game? stupid.

thisbeatisbadass

@Shukaku:
Actually, the wii is just meant to play games. Not one bit of it screams that online should be prohibited. If someone wants to be able to play online with friends, then they should be able to. the 360 and PS3 let us do this. The wii should too. Especially when they release games like brawl that would be great for it.

Demonbird

@ Lstormy10:

You know what? That sounded logical enough to shut me up until farther notice.:P

remanance

@Lezard: Its funny you say that, as I'm a devoted NPR listener and I've never liked anything Slate did with/for them, pretty much ever ;)

DaiMacculate

@Tizlor: The first day that Live went, well live, it worked. Whacked for the first xbox was excellent online, and despite it being on and off a few times and some things not working 100%, the online actually worked when it was up and running. Voice chat, Friendlist and all.

Not to mention DS has had online for how long? You also seem to forget that the gamecube HAD online, so Nintendo has had the same length of time to perfect their online as microsoft has (same goes for sony). Clearly Nintendo's effort is not only the bottom of the entire barrel, but it just plain dosnt work.

Scazza

The difference between 'great' online service and 'basic, easy-to-use' is pretty thin. I can't get my friends to play me in 360 games because most of them are frankly uninterested in paying a monthly fee. They just won't do it, and I have a hard time blaming them.

The PS3 is the only console with the right idea about online this gen: free and functional.

DrFresh

@Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.: Yeah, but I had to do some similar things in terms of router settings for XBL, the difference being that yes, the XBox 360 has a better network layer and for the most part easier settings, plus a fairly narrow port series it needs for games. Yeah I could play games without doing them, but I think most "hardcore" (a term I use with maximum irony, see South Park's WoW ep) players of games like Halo3 and CoD4 will agree that having the thing opened and routed correctly does make a difference in gameplay, however small, that can be the difference in a close game.

The Wii has many flaws, and I'm sure not the least is a lack of highly advanced network optimization in most games, because as many people who don't care for the system are quick to mention most of the games we're playing now are really just GC games...because we're just now reaching the point where a decent percentage (still less than 60% I'd say) of new games coming out were mostly conceived and in development for the Wii instead of the GC/PS2/etc.

The GC was basically a dying platform for almost 2 years before the Wii launched, not only were sales anemic but development houses left and right were either dropping GC exclusives entirely or making them multi-platform. Nobody, not myself, not the most die hard Nintendo fan, seriously thought it would do this well. Even Smash is exceeding its previous levels of popularity just because so many other people are walking into stores and buying smash based on the fact its so highly rated and its a new Wii game that at least doesn't suck, I won't argue that the crapware to awesome ration on the Wii has not been good so far, Metacritic among others pretty much confirms that.

I just don't think its quite fair to call it done yet, every time an awesome game does release it shows us a bit more of where the Wii could be going and how awesome it may become, given enough effort, good programming, and a ton of hard, hard work on Nintendo's part. The fact that both the 360, PS3 (and arguably XB1) have superior online service at the moment is almost a good thing in that regard, because it can only help pressure Nintendo to change for the better. Whether they will or not I don't know, but I do know it took 2 years before I played a PSX game that impressed me, and nothing needs to be said about the N64's relative lack of truly awesome games as an overall percentage of its library, not to mention the Saturn in the US, etc etc; I love all those systems and each had games that changed gaming forever. The Wii is an experiment in both gaming market demographics and the very control interface for gaming in general (which has been stuck between thumbsticks and M+K for decades now), and I for one continue to be fascinated by both its successes and its failures ;)

DaiMacculate

I totally agree with this.

Online sucks using the Wii.

i would like to throw in more Wii hate but i can't really think of anything else without repeating myself....
Sorry.

:/

i'm bored now.

*goes play SSBB*

Onizuka-GTO

"and while he wouldn't expect Xbox Live-esque service from a service that is trying to keep itself 'easy and free"

but other people has not problems to give a servive good and free, and has been like that on the PC, for more than 10 years

tei

@Shukaku: "The Wii really isn't supposed to be played online"

Okay, when people say shit like this, they automatically declare that the Wii is already inferior to the other two console offerings. Excuse me, the issue is that I'm lazy? That I should get friends over to my place? That the rest of us that have a real, credible issue with this all are "doing it wrong"?

Wow, get over yourself. I hope you don't display this kind of attitude in real life, otherwise I would have to seriously question your claim that you "have friends".

Jest

@DLNO-001: PS fanboy, you say? From the reasons you're giving when defending Nintendo's craptacular WiFi service that's FREE (like... you know, the Dreamcast's 10 years ago and the PS3's) begs to differ that you might...just might not be a PS fanboy but still a fanboy of "somethingelse" nonetheless.

Nintendo FAILED the second they decided I couldn't even send an invite to a friend that's online playing in With Strangers. I would get in, create a game and wait for minutes hoping he would notice and get in only to find out he logged off and never saw I was online. Not everyone will have always a laptop available in your side and people want to communicate. No even be able to send game invites? oh-my-GOD! And don't even get me started on individual friend codes per game....

Alex_Mexico

funny brawl fan made dance:

+ Watch video

SuperMekman

While the article does make a point in that yes, comparatively, the Wii's online features are not up there with XBL, I have a hard time swallowing anything Slate publishes in regards to popular culture. From my experience, it seems like most of the articles they publish on anything ranging from the Wii to lolcats is meant purely to take something popular, tear the hell out of it, and then point at the carcass while shouting "SEE? SEE HOW AWFUL IT IS ONCE YOU SUCK THE FUN OUT OF IT LIKE US? PLEASE READ OUR ARTICLES, WE'RE INTELLECTUALS."

Once again, they have a point, but I find the reporting style of Slate to be far too arrogant.

Lezard

@GUNDAM-RX-78-2: I don't often play against people who use items. Those are usually only on in matches against randoms or when people are screwing around; at least that's the way it is for the people who I play with on the regular.

Anemone

I believe everyone is mixing up some things. As a PS fanboy, I find amazing that I have to defend the wii.

Of course , being completely Honest, the wii was built FOR BRAWL, everything else before and after is utterly irrelevant. Anything of it's features failing can be considered a masive failure, emphazis in no motion controls and online.

But it was really that unexpected?

It's not XboxLive, but for something free, It's not that bad. Besides, If you wanted a console to play online games with full freedom of speech, you failed at getting the wii, right?

voice chat? altought would have been great, a simple laptop next to you can solve this issue. Friend codes? Again, everyone has e-mail . Lag? unforgivable, but with friends, eventually is reduced to minimum , and why would you bother to play with strangers you'll never be able to play again?

DLNO-001

@Tizlor:

No. But it usually worked and I did a lot of gaming online during the first year of the service. Hell, the Sega Dreamcast was better than this. There was never a time where I couldn't get a game going online with the Dreamcast and that was with a 56K modem nearly a decade ago. There's no excuse for Brawl's online to be this broken or for fanboys to continue to defend Nintendo for shipping items that don't work as promised.

Sloopydrew

LOL@ Pretty much every post in this thread. You act like Nintendo raped all your mothers in succession. Does Nintendo online suck? Sure! Have I had some fun with it anyway even though my PC is right here and the 360 only a few feet away? Sure!

As for people complaining about Wii games in general just fuck off. I can't believe that now after MP3, Galaxy, No More Heroes, Brawl, etc. people are still complaining "Gamecube graphics!" and "No games!" Its old.

ajay42

"I seriously believe Nintendo didn't expect the Wii to do crap outside of Japan, and that'd be fine for them, because they knew they'd own Japan against the huge, ugly PS3 and the American, ugly Xbox. The shortages are directly related to that."

Interesting, so how do you explain the fact that american Wii sales are measured in the 300k+ range (usually much higher), when in Japan its consistently under 75k, every month, even as the market leader or near (since the DS and PSP have been trading back and forth with it at the top)? I mean, its not that I don't think Nintendo gives some priorities to Japan, but if anything the fact their stock has taken a beating recently because they rely on US Sales and our dollar is getting so weak should pretty much disprove the idea that Japan is that much more important to their bottom line.

As I said, by most measures the GC was dying slowly for years and Nintendo surely didn't enjoy the measures they had to take to offset that stagnant inventory nightmare, so can anyone honestly blame them for not overspending on Wii manufacturing? Its getting better, I've seen Wiis in a store already a few times this year, something I never saw in 2007. Whether or not the Wii is just 2 GCs duct taped together, its not like they just can just take all those old GCs and magically transform them into Wiis....;)

DaiMacculate

Did anyone else totally dislike Brawl's menu system? Melee's looked much more.... finished.

Kickinstuff13

@obo: Wow man, calling Nintendo shortsighted, conservative and xenophobic is kind of a madman rant thing to say. If anyone have been happy to break their own rules it's Nintendo. Every single console they've put out has had a radically different controller in some way, every iteration of their franchises try to displace the content roughly in a random direction, and i don't know what ass you pulled "xenophobic" from.

Nintendo are huge everywhere. You really think they only care about Japan, a fraction of their overall profits?

Sunjammer

As much of a Nintendo fan as i am, there really is no way to excuse how the Wii works online. It's exceedingly amateurish, to the point where i'm convinced i myself, with my limited network application programming experience, could actually do a better job. Alone. On my spare time.

Let's be frank, it's a shit service. It delivers the absolute bare minimum, and they make you suffer just to get at that.

Worse yet, things like the Wii VC store are downright comical, and i'm confused as to why they don't just leverage their existing and great web browser, come up with some secure proprietary protocol and make something PSN-like or otherwise resembling the web.

Overall, Nintendo's online service on the DS was fine; Hell there was even voice chat to a certain extent. I understand their wish for uniformity but it's spectacularly disappointing considering how fresh the Wii felt when i first unpacked it and started playing some of the more Wii specific games versus the caveman level command of interface design and network infrastructure they display with their online services.

It seems, to me, that Nintendo are very comfortable delivering small, exact net applications that don't treat you as an individual as much as "a Wii user". Live and to a certain extent PSN try to make you feel like you're leaving a print on the community or vice versa, whereas Nintendo are trying desperately to make you as lonely as can be.

I'm really struggling to come up with explanations for their rationale, but i'm clutching at the frayed ends of rapidly decaying straws, and all i can think is; They don't really give a shit. Which may be the case.

To be frank, online gaming is not something i go to Nintendo for. It is not their forte, it is not what they do, and they've made it abundantly clear that they honestly don't have a clue how to do it either.

But you gotta give a complete amateur credit for trying. Better luck next time big N.

Sunjammer

The only person I've tried to play anything with online is my wife's cousin. He's ... 12 years younger than we are? Something like that. Mario Kart DS is kind of boring playing with 2 others that aren't any good at the game. So mostly I just play with random strangers. The only problem I have with it (I really have no interest in communicating with the strangers I play with, honestly) is that occasionally the lag can be bothersome.

That said, someone mentioned ICQ, and I remember exchanging ICQ numbers nearly being more trouble than it was worth.

shimage

@Kyle81: "Nintendo has little reason to when everyone is buying the hell out of the system."

Yeah, because Nintendo certainly supported the Gamecube with solid extra features that the market demanded when its sales waned.

Nintendo just plain sucks when it comes to online gameplay and community building. They don't understand it, they don't want to spend time understanding it, and unless there are fundamental changes across the company, they will never want to understand it.

They tried with the BS system, it bombed, and that's the mindset they've held on to ever since. They will always be the company that focuses on Japan's offline communities first, because it's the cheapest route that returns the greatest investment.

That's why Japan gets Club Nintendo, that's why they get regional exclusive features and extras that never show up here. Japan is their stronghold, which is great for their profit-or-die philosophy. It leaves Sony and Microsoft to divide up the Americas and especially Europe, which Nintendo hates like anorexics hate cake.

That philosophy is why third parties outside of Japan - maybe excepting Ubi - have all but given up on ever seriously supporting Nintendo. EA, Activision, Vivendizzardversal all want to sell _everywhere_ equally, and Nintendo won't go for that.

I seriously believe Nintendo didn't expect the Wii to do crap outside of Japan, and that'd be fine for them, because they knew they'd own Japan against the huge, ugly PS3 and the American, ugly Xbox. The shortages are directly related to that.

Nintendo wasn't being clever by not producing enough Wiis. They were being as shortsighted, conservative and xenophobic as they've always been.

obo

I've never been able to connect to an online game of Smash Bros, though to be fair I give up after 15-20 minutes of the Wii being unable to connect me to any opponents. Maybe if I waited a half hour...

PENI_MASTA

You know what would satisfy both Nintendo and it's fans? Pull a Capcom and release SSBB again with some tweaks. Add five more characters to make an even 40 (c'mon Megaman?) and a beefed up online version and call it "Super Smash Bros Brawl: Tournament Edition."

Who wouldn't enjoy that? Sure there'd be some gripes from those who already purchased the game (2 million at last count); but, if this were released in one year I can promise you gamers would eat it up all over again.

Gameboy Advance. Gameboy Advance SP. DS. DS Lite. This game can print money. All over again.

Shiroi

@DaiMacculate: I must say, your post was rather refreshing to read. Thank you for an intelligent and well thought out comment. As someone who's been participating and watching the Wii's successes and failures unfold from behind the scenes, your statements are not so far from what I think to be true about the company known as Nintendo.

Jenstar: The O.C. Ninty Rep

I'd have to agree. The combination of friend codes, no chat, no leaderboards, nothing but basic options online, and crippling lag make it really not even worth bothering with.

uranutan

@Leanid: I've made a lot more friends who game that are online than those who game IRL. I still get the occassional SSB match at my house, but that's if there's people here, and if we all feel like playing.

Even more so, the game is almost underwhelming on its own. I could have the same experience playing Melee or 64 that I could playing Brawl, but I was hoping online would deliver more opportunity to play.

People look on PSN or XBL see friends and ask them if they want to play. They boot up the game, and bam, you're playing. Not only that, but features within the console and game give you more of a connection, it doesn't feel like you're playing against bots.

The entire system is lacklsuter, and it needs a complete revamp.

.endejas.

@themunk: Quick Question: have you tried contacting your college IT dept? Because there are two possibilities:

1) You're allowed to use the Wii with the campus service, in which case they really should help you open the UDP ports you need (google it) or whatever, I had to do it for people for things like IM and even Q2 and Q3 when I worked in college IT, as long as it wasn't torrents or something like that they were cool with it.

2) You're not allowed to use the campus network for the Wii for some BS reason, in which you're probably SOL :(

DaiMacculate

I'll be happy once Nintendo decides to let us send in-game messages to people on our friends list. As it is, the only way to check for people online is to be sitting in front of the friend roster; I'd like to be able to, say, ask if my buddy playing open matches wants to come and do some Multi-Man Brawls with me. Even if the game waits till after he's finished with his current match to give him the message, it still lets him know that he's got somebody waiting for him in another lobby.

GhostWhoWalks

I've been called a Nintendo fanboy in the past, but I really loathe their online systems. I have been struggling to get my Wii to interact with the wireless routers at my university, eventually forced to take the plunge with one of their USB dongles. Once I finally connect, there's nothing for me to do. I have not once been able to connect for a round of Brawl. It takes much less effort for me to just find 3 people hanging around.

Nintendo has supposedly streamlined everything, but I've yet to have an enjoyable Nintendo online experience.

themunk

To be frank, online multiplayer isn't terribly appealing to me. Especially the highly-randomized incarnations. So I do not mind the idea of having the exchange data with real life friends before having to play, nor do I mind the data being numbers. I do not even mind not having any chat functions, it's a bit of a shame, but Nintendo doesn't have a Microphone accessory, or anyplace on the controller to plug it into, so it's an understandable limitation.

The only thing I really mind, is the fact that I need to enter different numbers for every game. This takes the relatively simple act of entering in Friend-numbers, and makes it far more cumbersome or tedious than it needs to be, without really giving us the players anything in return.

I'll live