Don't expect to see the end of lawsuits over Guitar Hero. Now since the game is released in Japan, Konami will sue the game if it becomes moderately successful and Konami WILL win. Konami has some deal with Activision at the moment but could end it anytime and file a suit, especially if they want to release GuitarFreaks & Drummania series over in the states.

DDRNemesis

I shall get the PS3 version of GHIII. The reason I aksed is because one of my friends wants to sell me the PS2 version w/ Guitar for $50.

Amazon_Chris

Commenter 108 wrote that article for Next-Gen.

BIGmog

Speaking of infringement, did Next Gen first post about this finding on 03/14/08? If so then that's two days later than it was revealed beneath the original Kotaku story by commenter 108.

[kotaku.com]

godot

@EggmaniMN: Then I'll shut up.

Thorax

@Tiger-Fever: How, exactly, does the addition of two fret buttons constitute an "easier control scheme"?

mashuren

@Amazon_Chris: Yeah get the PS3 version. You'll havea PS3 guitar that way for future releases, and I can also attest after playing at a friend's, the load times are indeed insane on the PS2.

Sorry to hijack. But honestly, to that guy above who talks about the "shitty" music of Guitar Hero? Hello? Are you serious? That comment was trolltastic.

Karlott

JUST HOLD ON ONE GODDAMN MINUTE THERE!
Did anyone go over and read this article? It's hypothetical claims are dubious at best ("my guess is"), and he says something to the effect that the Japanese media is up in arms over patent suits in the US, which is patently false (and I'll tell you why).

The US and European patent system give priority to inventors, while the Japanese and Chinese give it to filers. What this means is that in the US, if you can prove you invented something before the person who filed first, the patent rights shift over to you. In Japan it all comes down to who filed first, and thereby Japan has more patents filed per annum than any other country in the world.

I have professional experience in dealing with the issue. And I live in Japan working for a Japanese company, and am aware of what the media is up in arms about--it's what the author is writing about, but in CHINA.

Truly shoddy journalism.

Noneedtoaskmynametofigureouthowcooliam

@idrisz: Seconded.
I dont see how it works either.

Altima NEO

@EggmaniMN: By classic rock songs like Smoke on the Water and Paranoid, you mean crappy ass midi covers? Cuz yeah, that's exactly how I want to enjoy my music.

rcomegys

Geez... Patent squatting... Who'd have thought Gibson would stoop so low...

bobtheduck

@Iceman B.: Out of all these examples...

In The Groove did evolve the DDR 4-arrow format... But in fact, the same innovations had already been made by Andamiro's 5-panel arrow-smasher, Pump It Up (and just to hammer it home, most of the ITG devteam is working on Pump It Up Pro, an ITG-styled PIU release). The only truly 'new' (to the arcade) features were Mines (used after the fact in DDR Hottest Party), Freeze Rolls, and the Battle Mode (which was an enhancement off of - I am not kidding - DDR Disney Mix's battle mode).

By some takes of the story, RedOctane set up Guitar Hero (after modest success as a games publisher with ITG) for PS2 with Harmonix for two reasons: First, because it sounded cool and could sell a peripheral, which can (not necessarily DOES) make for a quick buck. Second, and more significantly, they were expecting Guitar Freaks to hit the US anytime now (instead, Beatmania hit the US just before GH2 and did moderately well) and wanted the controllers out there and (more significantly) in production for them to use. (Note, though, that they removed one function from the GF controller - the 'spinner' that allows effects selection and was re-added for Rock Band - in favor of adding the Whammy Bar). Then Guitar Hero was a smash hit while Guitar Freaks ended up (so far) not hitting the US.

There was and is a deal going between Konami and Harmonix/RedOctane/Activision/EA related to GH, but I have no clue as to the specifics. (Part of it is that GH has to use the 'incoming' note motion format - which is similar to that used by In The Groove and mirror-opposite to that of DDR).

With Rock Band, Harmonix really didn't innovate that much. The game is, if you look, literally a beerslam of Guitar Hero, DrumMania with two fewer pads and one less pedal (I think?), and their own Karaoke Revolution. Guitar Freaks and DrumMania have been connectable for a long, LONG time, so even the beerslamming isn't entirely new. The primary reason Rock Band is awesome is price (scarily enough), having decent periphereals (unlike the first and only home DrumMania release), and the fact that the game is purely american Rock.

As for my opinions? I can't honestly call either better between the equivalents (Except In The Groove - anyone who says the music sucked never listened to Machinae Supremacy, and the R21 patch for ITG redefined awesome), as the largest difference is regional song interests. That said, I'd love to see GF/DM's accuracy-based scoring mechanic added to Guitar Hero or Rock Band.

Nekoincardine

@ConstyXIV: Nice work! Wow, 16 months is pretty fast for a patent! Still, if it was filed in July 1998, work on it had to have begun well before GuitarFreaks was heard of by Gibson.

jayntampa

@zoesch:
[www.google.com]
GPatents to the rescue. Filing date was July 29, 1998, approved Nov 23, 1999. However, that doesn't mean there wasn't prior art. There's this patent([www.google.com]) which sounds an awful lot like the Wii Guitar Hero setup.

ConstyXIV

... umm, guys -- if the patent was "awarded" 9 years ago, which is what is claimed, the patent was filed 2 to 3 years before that. It takes forever to clear a patent.

Most likely Gibson filed the patent before GuitarFreaks hit the market. You know, this kind of stuff is what happens when sites post pure speculation rather than just called up the company and asking the question, "When did you file your patent?"

While I completely love blogs, and I don't want Kotaku to change a thing -- people need to not confuse real journalism with idle speculation. I'd expect more out of Next Gen.

jayntampa

@ca$h: Most ignorant comment I've seen yet on Kotaku. I guess America also invented guitars and video games. In fact, they probably also invented color TV, so every time Japan uses anything they've invented they're just "stealing our culture". Bloody ridiculous. The game is a complete rip-off, only they replaced it with Western rock music and an easier control scheme (pretty much the same thing Konami does with all the games it releases here).

@soundboz: Yes, but sadly the "unfun" part of ITG is exactly what they were going for. The whole game just gets boring after a couple months and is just a rip off of Stepmania. Besides, ITG's profit <<<<< DDR's profit. The only people who like ITG more than DDR are the "hardcore" players who get too tired AAA'ing PSMO

Tiger-Fever

@holysocks: Guitar Freaks DID NOT come out for the PSX in the US. It was scheduled for a release in March 2000, and was canceled about a month before it's ship date. I don't think they ever even finalized the discs for it. I have no idea why people are convinced that it made it stateside at all. There isn't even any evidence that it shipped anywhere. Someone on Joystiq tried to argue with me that there were less than 100 produced, which is absolutely ludicrous. Prove me wrong. (and since I know several people at Konami Of Japan's AM division and was friends with the bulk of the North American QA and Bemani division before the Sunnyvale offices closed, good luck with that).

The only iteration of Guitar Freaks in North America that Konami released was a modified version of the first Arcade Guitar Freaks (the only modification being the video for the hidden song Lucky?Staff). This saw minor success at theme parks and places like Gameworks, but didn't merit enough to release future versions (whereas DDR got at least one more arcade release and Hiphopmania received both Complete Mix games in the US.)

The information on Wikipedia is incorrect as well since Guitar Freaks came out in Japan in late 1998, and in the US in early 1999. As for the whole "rip off" thing on both Harmonix and RedOctane's end. Members of the original Guitar Hero team (before the activision buyout) will own up to Guitar Freaks being an inspiration. The games are fundamentally different so I wouldn't call it a rip off as much as maybe even a tribute. Many of the people that worked on both franchises are Bemani fans themselves. Which one is better is purely subjective and arguable, but I'll completely forgo that. Not worth getting into. Besides all that, I'm pretty sure it was stated a few months ago that Konami receives royalties from both companies for use of the Guitar Controller patent, so i doubt Konami cares much either way.

mydjsobad

Someone has a link to the actual USPTO application? Because all I've read is that they were granted the patent in 1999 with no mention of the filling date.

@Tyrannical: And here we have the problem with the internet, speculation becomes truth and gets plastered all over the place.

zoesch

Guitar Freaks was released for PS1 in the US. Sales were poor, most probably due to the song list and the lack of a peripheral maker like Harmonics had Red Octane.

I thought earlier GF had fun original songs. The latter V series are all filled with real japanese bands which I didn't like as much. You might still be able to get them for the PS2 (5 GF games released) and play with the Guitar Hero guitar.

holysocks

Another note as to the games age, it connected to the computer via a serial port :)

lestat730

Back when I had my first PC, a gateway 2000 486mhz computer there was this game I got for Xmas about a year later called Virtual Guitar. It came with a guitar shape controller (purple in color) and had real guitar strings running down the neck. The game had you starting out as a garage band and working your way up to concerts. I remember there was a few Gin Blossoms and Candle Box songs that I loved. Basically as the song played you'd see little indicators for when you should strum the strings with the guitar pick it came with (it was yellow and had VG written on it in black.) However, it didn't matter which string you plucked so you could go up and down on all of them, do just one, do half, or whatever as long as it was timed correctly. It was a lot of fun and definitely came WAY before Guitar Hero was even conceptualized. I seem to recall it being 1995 when I got it but I could be wrong......

lestat730

@Thorax:

Dillinger Escape Plan, Dandy Warhols, Blood and Thunder by Mastodon, Nemesis by Arch Enemy, Black Sheep by Sonata Arctica, and the old games had all sorts of classic rock songs that ended up in Guitar Hero as well (Killer Queen, Smoke on the Water, Paranoid, others).

So yeah, uh, try to actually look through a full songlist (something like 600 songs at this point probably) before just assuming it's all j-rock. J-rock and J-pop are really a minority in Guitar Freaks. I'd say the most plentiful genres would be jazz and plain ol' rock.

EggmaniMN

This reminds me of the boom of website domain-name squatters back in the late 90s, when people were registering anything remotely related to a company in the hopes of a huge payoff.

Seems to me you can't patent an idea somebody else already came up with, regardless of whether they patented it themselves. There has to be a grandfather clause.

Strangelove

The only games the Japanese know how to market in the west are RPGs. I'm not surprised that Guitar Freaks went unheard of in the States, especially since they probably didn't have the kind of music Americans would want to play. If Konami made that mistake, I don't see anything wrong with this "patent-squatting," especially since it gave us a great series of games, culminating in Rock Band, maybe one of the most fun rhythm games ever made.

peAr_nectAr

@Iceman B.:
Just a side note, but Karaoke Revolution* was originally developed by...
wait for it...
Harmonix Music Systems. Sound familiar?

*the American version, not the Japanese version, which amounted to a karaoke program for the PS2

ConstyXIV

Hey Bashcraft,

I'm pretty sure the game only sold 3,000 units because only 3,000 units were available! I've been looking EVERYWHERE and haven't found any in stock. Amazon.co.jp now has the PS2 version, but a few days ago they said for the PS3 version "We expect to get new stock in May" (the message is gone now). All my local shops, even out here on Shikoku, are sold out.

rcomegys

ITG was horribly unfun and had worse music than DDR. I do not see how they failed to realize the full potential, especially when it was effectively sued off the map. GGPO, ITG.

soundboz

@Iceman B.: Konami: One billion dollar mistake after another. You heard it here folks.

Ghede

Konami has a knack for NOT realizing the full potential of games or concepts.

I mean:

DDR -> ITG/ITG2(which they sued into kaputtness)
Guitar Freaks -> Guitar Hero(Huh what? there is more to the world than Japan?)

Drummania -> Rock Band
Guitar Freaks -> Rock Band
Karaoke Revolution -> Rock band

Meh, I wonder how much dirty laundry will surface in this story...is Konami really at the root here?

Iceman B.

Prior Art would pretty much invalidate Gibson's claims.

Though filing worthless patents could make you a hero and a great person in the USA. Ever hear of Jerome Lemelson? Oh, that only happens if you have some good lawyers and give away a lot of the money that you scammed out of companies to smooth over the fact that you didn't actually invent anything.

Bon5ai

Too bad guitar freak sucks.

Maiken

Gibson's patent is worthless since there is prior art.

"My guess is that someone in the Gibson corporation's marketing department heard of GuitarFreaks in 1999 and immediately checked to see if Konami had filed a patent in the US. When their search revealed no results, they filed a patent themselves, and waited patiently."

And if that is true, Gibson can get into minor trouble for knowingly filing a false patent.

Tyrannical

@idrisz:
If Guitar Hero is a rip-off of GuitarFreaks, then all SUVs are rip offs of Jeep. Don't be pissy because Harmonix created a game in the genre people acutally wanted to play. Besides, America invented Rock. If anything Konami ripped off our culture (if you want to get stupid about it, which apparently you do).

ca$h

@idrisz: Shitty music? I can only imagine GuitarFreaks is eighty times better with it's whiny J-Rock crap.

Unless they actually got some decent rock, then I'll shut up.

Thorax

You snooze, you lose.

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

And people think Gibson stays in business selling guitars...

Gibson and Fender are both famous for suing (and threating to) at the drop of a hat.

Make something vaguely guitar-shaped and they will try to think of a way to sue you.

"Pre-lawsuit " is a term that you'll hear in the guitar world, usually referring to a guitar model that had to be changed due to one of the "big two" flexing their legal muscles.

Even the shapes of guitars are patented. Manufacture one too close to one of their designs, and they pull out a set of calipers and start measuring. Then you get a letter telling you to change A,B, and C by X date or "we'll see you in court".

It's how they get by when all the kids are listening to rap.

Billkwando

I wonder how many patents there are already for robots that give sexual pleasure... and if there aren't I wonder if Sexomaton is a vague enough name. Maybe Vagbot.

rvcontre

Patent squatting. Ugh. I already don't care about Guitar Hero because of shit Activision has pulled and Rock Band, this just adds to the list.

Grey_Fox

How slyfully clever they mean.

a_lega

@barktwiggs. Exactly my thought, Konami released the first games before the patent.

It's a shame Konami didn't realize the full potential of the series worldwide so far.

Voltron

I wonder if Gibson has heard of the term: prior art?

barktwiggs

Guitar Freaks was toooo way difficult compared to any Guitar Hero.

I've played it like 6 years ago here in México. (tacos! tacos! lol)

Han Daimond

@TRT-X: maybe they were cool with harmonics and now that they moved on they figure it's a good time to sue the bastards

mossberg

guitar hero = music aimed for westerners

guitar freaks = aimed at japanese

darktorns

Lies, I won't believe it from Gibson.

No.... T.T

Fyren

@Amazon_Chris: Definately PS3 - PS2 version is a port (not by Neversoft) and you can always download new songs on the PS3 version - as well as a few free songs that have been released. The PS2 version also just feels "meh".

They really need to make the Rock Band and Guitar Hero III guitars interchangable on the PS3 - having three guitars sitting around (PS2 Guitar Hero, PS3 Rock Band, PS3 Guitar Hero III) is a bit excessive! lol

Ecks

@TRT-X: I'm with you on this one. They partner with Activision, and let them mimic the look of their guitars. Now three years later, they pull this out of their asses? I'm wondering if there was an implied consent to license... but Gibson wants a bigger piece of the 1 billion dollar profits.

Tenth

@Amazon_Chris: Ps3. I have both just trust me.

NessD12

@Amazon_Chris: I'd recommend the PS3 version. I don't have a PS2 or PS3, but from my friend that does have GH3 for the PS2, the load times are atrocious.

Capt. Struggle Bunny

I always wanted to play Guitar Freaks.

If this story is true, I guess there really is no honor between large companies.

Capt. Struggle Bunny

The part of this whole lawsuit that I still don't understand is how Gibson is completely at peace with licensing their name and product to Activision for Guitar Hero...but then turn around and sue Activision because Guitar Hero ripped them off?

Am I the only one who is utterly confused by that almost 180 in mindset?

TRT-X

@idrisz: lol...What's the mater, never play the real Guitar Hero?

Any way, I'm buying Guitar Hero III first chance I get. But what system to get it for...PS3, or PS2? PS2 needs a good exit game.

Amazon_Chris

@idrisz: Because only Americans play GH, right? Yeesh. By the way, taste in music is subjective.

ShaggE

@elsilento: A game with both popular stuff like in GH/ROCK BAND alongside great Konami originals like FIRE? Where do I sign up? (also DO WANT)

DarkTetsuya

konami couldn't capitalize because they ignored the most important element: rock. the music in gf was terrible. while gh3 has more than a few tracks i would like to see removed, even those are better than most of the songs i heard in gf.

thaKingRocka

@idrisz:
Booooy, the music in GuitarFreaks wasn't exactly the best either.

Jeez. Fanboys ARE everywhere.

DrakeLake

Good job.

Sailorcancer

I laughed at silly Americans when they say how awesome and innovative guitar hero is.

Shitty music + Konami rip-off = the suck.

idrisz

@elsilento: I sure as hell would. I play it every time I get a chance to at cons.

cheez

It still amazes me that Konami wasn't able to capitalize on GuitarFreaks in the US and instead Guitar Hero sells millions while being pretty much a clone(Konami's own fault really). There are of course many differences, but you'd think Konami would be the one doing the suing rather than a patent squatter. Maybe Konami can find a way to sue Gibson to complete the circle.

slacker164

Patent mining...what a lovely side of the corporate world. More of an issue when you get into things like patenting genes and all that loveliness, but it's still rather distasteful here.

ubiquitous, remorseless

We'd probably buy the hell out of the Guitarfreaks game if it came here... well... maybe.

elsilento

Good ol' patent squatting. It never gets old.

Unfortunately.

cheez

Bastards....fucking BASTARDS!!

Shit like this pisses me of

CrimsonAngel

typical corporation

[KU]Shindokie:Pon Pon Pata Pon!

If only I thought of that... in both cases.

ph15h

Sneaky buggers...

munkah

thats pretty smart

mossberg