I'm not going to complain if the game doesn't have top of the line graphics. The original Starcraft patted itself on the back for being able to run on older machines. I don't expect poor graphics but it wouldn't surprise me if they shoot for a bigger amount of people able to play without graphical lag rather than shooting for top end graphics.

The original Starcraft lacked graphical settings because they felt that no player should have a disadvantage due to hardware. We'll see how much that statement sticks through the years. If they have more advanced effects, I expect there will be toggles, if they are still committed to that statement.

Zunnoab

The new marine death sounds make them sound constipated.

bring back the old ones!

Noc

@rateoforange: I agree that something like Natural Selection with Starcraft setting & Blizzard quality would have been awesome!

rupy

For those complaining about the Terran air units "exploding into nothing" please be reminded that in the first few demos that featured Protoss units, Blizzard actually showed off falling debris when an air unit died. I guess they're currently testing if they should keep that feature in there or not. I'm hoping it would be a feature you could toggle off/on since it'll prolly be something that'll slow down my PC.

idle.eidolon

@thecactusman17:

It's in DoW2, where such things will undoubtably be the focus, not here.

Artheon

@kiigan: Great idea! So now when you're trying to pick off a building just out of range of the static defense, your units will move forward, so everyone can attack and in turn get owned by the static defense! We can even further imporve unit behaviour with another great idea - making them help each other, so when the first hydra gets owned by the static defense, all others will charge forward and get owned, too! Seriously, these extremely well thought out ideas OWN!

mizeriq

Yea. The game that hardcore micro esport players want is like a flat blue screen with yellow circles. No graphics at all. Other people want graphics, and lore. Starcraft is starcraft today because these hardcore micro guys. So is his game. So is ok to remove a battleship nice animation, because is long, and block que vision.

Thats how a game looks If you let hardcore command graphics design (that is a good thing):

tei

I really think everyone should chill out about how anything looks in these early videos. This is blizzard we're talking about. Do you guys remember the Warcraft III beta? It was like a different game.

Animations, hit points, it's all going to be fine tuned and balanced before they ever let anyone outside of the internal team play this thing.

Shirleycakes

A product with zero innovation, built to spec for Korean psychos. A frozen relic of the 90s.

rateoforange

@thecactusman17: Absolutely.

Also, those Zerg seem extra tough, I know they're demonstration models but it seems like they barely lost anyone.

SSJPabs

@Nikral:

Dude, they are playing a new game that while similar, is not the exact same when it comes to some UI features. A few of them are also just trying out some of the new units rather then going diehard "kill kill kill" on eachother.

Still, the two playing are pro gamers from Korea, Blizzard asked a bunch of them to go to the event to see the Zerg and give advice.

ScytheRexx

I just want to comment on nothing more than that after Medieval 2; Dawn of War; and BFME2 a bunch of guys sitting around doing generic attacks to each other just looks lame and unrealistic in the extreme. Where's the Marine crushing a zergling underfoot while putting a round of gunfire into another? Or for that matter, the third an fourth tackling him to the ground and tearing his head off at the neck?

It really does look like on step forward, two steps back so far on the graphics.

thecactusman17

@kiigan: I suppose it could be that the pathfinding is borked and that they can't find the shortest path but i highly doubt that'll stay in the game. I mean you are judging the game from pre beta here...

The game isn't finished just cuz it looks finished. There's a lot of stages to completion that are beyond graphical achievement... in any development the barebone gets built first and then things get added in as they are done. So yeah they game should be playable but it doesn't mean anything towards its completion.

pyropetey

Bleh, the flying unit is using the same animation as the gargoyles from warcraft III :T

10 years, about damn time.

x999x

Meh, these movies are just site-rips from starcraft2.com. I'd really like to see something new.

Legendary GIR

@Nikral: Eh i mean some of their moves are different, but there are alot of changes. this is a new game so to speak it'll be tougher to get used to on first go.

@exkon and @Virgil Tibbs: Hmm it could be the type of dmg they do. I think i read somewhere where they dmg types are different ... so you never know.

pyropetey

@exkon:

I was confused too

Virgil Tibbs

Sure, I fully appreciate that the game isn't finished yet. Early days and all that. But you know, with so much of the game looking polished, it is hard to treat it as an unfinished game... the rough edges stick out more.

As for the pathfinding... I'm sorry I don't buy the excuses :) Micro-management is all well and good, but the player should be tasked with making the important strategic decisions during play - as opposed to constantly battling a broken pathfinder. It's 2008, time for a modern solution to this. C'mon, watch that video again, and watch that Hydra at the back just walking around - it is ridiculous!

kiigan

@ScytheRexx: And that video...they definetly arent "pros" lol

Nikral

@exkon: The video is for demonstrative purposes only.. they do the same thing for videos on starcraft2.com. It's not like you could actually do that in game (and besides, it's far from being balanced).

Scoots06

@Seiru: The video Blizzard released is of much higher quality than the one presented by Gametrailers.com. I got a feed off a Korean site which was very impressive.

Scoots06

@kiigan: Once again they are still making this game, they have no release date so it could be quite awhile till we see anything close to a final project. For all we know they could have another race up their sleeve.
Yeah it was one of the first things I noticed, the projectiles, but like I said still in development.
Also Blizzard stated that they are going to have kind of the same movements as Starcraft one (ex. stacked air units) but they said there will be changes. Also! it's called Micro-management it's why the pros are so good :)

Nikral

@kiigan: While I'm not very good at RTS, your comment just makes me think of the much simpler Heroes of Mana / Revenant Wings / pseudo-RTS games for the DS, where the characters are absolutely retarded when it comes to figuring out ways around obstacles... it's absolutely maddening. :/

Idontloveyou

@kiigan:
Pathfinding is an important part of the gameplay tho. If they were to keep the roots they should have some semblance of it.

Either way it is exactly the same as before and you lose nothing by having it move, for it were to just stand still and stay in formation then it would similarly attack when in range, which is exactly what that moving hydra woulda done as soon as the enemy is in range.

part of the micro associated with this is that you move your units so that they can all get in and fire at once.

pyropetey

Also I agree with others on the Hydralisks projectile issue. This is what I was worried about - the 2D sprites of StarCraft are so full of character, and as pretty as StarCraft 2 is you can definitely see things being lost because of the move to 3D. The Terran units for example, the Siege Tank etc - often these are the first choices of newcomers to StarCraft because they are (often) real-world parallels making the units easier to understand. For example we all know what a tank is, a soldier, a fighter jet etc. But with StarCraft 2, the Siege Tank doesn't really look like a tank and I think that's a significant failing of the visual design. Yes it looks cool, but it looks like a building.

kiigan

@ScytheRexx:

Yea you're right. I checked the older videos and the battlecruisers had a death animation. I hope they don't take it out when they release the game.

KPrecise

@silkysm00th:
Hmmm I think you're missing the point. Good graphics doesnt mean crap in any competitive game. The reason StarCraft was so renowned was hardly a result of the graphics.

If you cannot see it, then I shall explain it this much: Good graphics (similarly stunning graphics) will get the game the first few initial sales. But in the end means NOTHING for its longevity. The longest lasting games of our times have drastically outdated graphics. StarCraft excelled in a time of 3d (total annihilation the predecessor to Supreme Commander) using only its simplistic 2D engine.

As a result I hope you realize that art direction and gameplay are really the winners in any game. Being praised with graphics is sorta like praising Gears or something, it'll fade (hahaha ok that was a mean joke, Gears had art style too so I'll give it that). I don't forsee a long future for Supreme Commander nor do I see one for many RTS' out there... granted RTS is a dying breed.

@Ed-the-Third:
Balancing an RTS for looks is different from balancing an RTS for gameplay. Take supreme commander for instance, it balances the game for graphics and in trade off doesnt really deliver. When balancing for gameplay ESPECIALLY in an RTS game you need to consider everything. A large part of hate directed in wc3's general direction was there's too many things on the screen in terms of flashy projectiles and spells and orb effects. In the end it doesn't deliver due to its convoluted nature. Too many shiny things makes it hard to handle the game, especially when its primary purpose is to micro.

I don't mean that we need to remove the battlecruiser from crashing to the floor but the option of having it crash on the floor and not MIGHT be the difference between figuring out when to pull out or not, or whther to cast the spell or not. etc etc.

pyropetey

Two other things I noticed (it is hard not to):

- The flocking path-finder seems to be the same as the StarCraft one, or very similar. Notice how when the Hydralisks try to line up, the one guy at the back who can't fit in walks alllll the way to the end of the line, rather than either staying in formation or having everyone squish over a bit to make room for him. It's a pain because it means your units are spending time walking about vulnerable rather than attacking - it's that sort of thing that makes managing groups of Dragoons such a pain in StarCraft.

- With the extended death animations (as the Terran unit (Banshee?) slumps to the ground, as the Hydralisks walk over the now dead unit it looks pretty unnatural, like the Z sorting is wrong. Again this wouldn't be a problem in 2D, but now that it's all 3D you start to notice little things like that.

I can appreciate that the game is still some way from completion of course.

kiigan

Sounds are all wrong, clearly.
Also it is interesting how crappy-looking Mutalisks in flight look now, in full 3D. Their movement isn't at all related to how they flap their wings, which is a shame. Of coure you'd never notice it on the old lovely 2D sprites :)

And yes, we all know the game is still in development, but to date all the footage Blizzard has shown has been quite well developed, quite far on. This is the first time I've seen anything to do with StarCraft 2 and thought "eww" - even though being a Zerg man the sight of a bunch of Muties chewing up a Terran expansion warms my heart :)

kiigan

@Nikral:

The balance was also horrible. I was in Beta for the first game and Vultures could THROW spider-mines at buildings and Mutalisks had an attack that was an extremely overpowered acid spit. The current Mutalisk actually uses the attack that was at first used for the original queen, before the attack on casters was removes and the queens attack was moved to the Mutalisk.

Oh, for those that really want to see how StarCraft 2 plays in the hands of real players, check out this video. It shows how much they take into account the roots of the game.

[www.megaupload.com]

ScytheRexx

I'm always impressed by Blizzard. Zerg was and still is my favorite race in Starcraft. And for those complaining about the graphics, I don't get it... This is Blizzard's own style/art direction and they've always strayed from the heard in terms of that. I think it looks fabulous. I can't wait to get my hands on some new information on Zerg units. I savor mooorree!

September

It's Blizzard guys. They're going to make Starcraft II able to run on at the very least 2005 hardware. They never shoot for the stars as far as system requirements go. Blizzard is more like Valve and less like Epic and Crytek.

Black-Dog-Howls

yeah they are still in alpha testing what can you expect, go look at the alpha picks of Starcraft 1, those look HIDEOUS compared to what came out!

+ Watch video

Nikral

Not at all, I just noticed much of the fanbase I don't think really know what they want. It's something that happens with all games, and StarCraft is getting it hard because is has such a diehard following.

I have never seen the bile that I see each time new information comes out, its like the littlest change causes so much bile to get spewed.

I mean, there is ten page arguements just on Multiple Building Selection and how it "ruins the pro-scene by lowering APM", or how the Zergling wings make it "look like a cockroach! it sucks, you ruined my childhood!" and so on.

I guess I am just letting it get to me, and I apologize if I was overly angry over it. I just trust Blizzard and feel the game is looking good while keeping to the heart of the genre, and I don't like seeing people freaking out without playing it, its really awesome and so genuine to its roots when you get behind the mouse.

ScytheRexx

@ScytheRexx:

Tons of props to Blizz then, really, and it's as I suspected; They had the option and ability to do it different, thus rendering my "critique" void, and merely a preference.

But I don't get the whole "someone wanted it gone and now it is, and now you whine?" thinger. It's a common comment where changes like these are concerned, but surely you're not implying the same individuals are behind this all?

Artheon

@Ed-the-Third:

The funny thing is that the battlecruisers already had a crashing death animation using the new built in physics system, but people complained about it being "too busy" and "blocking the action" during games.

What happened? People whined that its not realistic enough now that is explodes into nothing.

/facepalm

ScytheRexx

An important thing people keep forgetting about is that they're still working on the game. They didn't say this thing is coming out next week, so they should all shut up about the animations and the popping battlecrusers.

This is Blizzard we're talking about. They take forever to work on their games and I'm confident that the finished product will be hundreds of times better than what we see here. Hydralisks will have the back of their heads open up to shoot spines, battlecrusers will crash down after taking too much hits, and it'll all be in high-def.

Ed-the-Third

Alpha people, its still being worked on.

Plus, as much as people don't like to think so, a better artistic design beats high end graphics, AND makes the game easier to play on a large range of machines. Blizzard has know this forever, and its one of the reasons WoW is better then all the "realistic" MMOs out there like EverQuest 2, Vanguard and LOTRO.

So stop throwing out "What we go back to 1997?" because it makes you guys looks silly.

ScytheRexx

OMG don't destroy the terran command center - infest it! where is the queen?!

MakeFragNotWar

@Rondogg: The game actually looks rather stunning when you aren't looking at it through a highly compressed flash video.

darthmole12

I hope they release an HD video of the Zerg gameplay on their site, like they did last year for Protoss/Terran. The compression on these videos is pretty bad.

darthmole12

@Rondogg: As long as it's fun, it could look like Pong for all it matters. RTS games have never been about eye-candy. (At least, not on the level of action games)

Personally, I like the look. Induces nostalgia.

ShaggE

These ships get shit out of tiny factories and you're playing god and that's all realistic but god forbid you have biodegradable ships because that just ruins the reality for you leaving the conclusion to be... the graphics are cheap (I know you didn't say that exactly but I'm no a role here ;D ). I think you have to remember that many of the things you are seeing though geometrically instanced require a lot of polygons to be present on the screen. Again, please refer to the large screen shots; this game is absolutely beautiful. Besides, the last thing you want is wreckage screwing up your path-finding.

okenny :)

Don't get me wrong, it'll be cool to have another Starcraft - but what exactly have they improved upon?

awesomerobot

*me

Rondogg

2008 and it looks like this?

I had fun with the first, but color be unimpressed Blizz.

Rondogg

Hydralisks NEVER shot acid. The lore behind them always said they shot out spines out of their heads, which due to limitations, was only represented by a green sploch that was supposed to be the muscles contracting which causes the blasts.

Lots of attacks and things didn't look right due to limitations, look at the old Zergling in the StarCraft cinematics, they stuck a Hydralisk head on it and called it a day, when in truth, and even in game, they didn't have anything close to a Hydralisk head.

Now the Hydralisk can use the attack its been using in every book released, the spinal projectile.

ScytheRexx

@Artheon: *doesn't. Sorry.

Artheon

@okenny :):

This dosn't really change the fact that in place of debris or even temporary wreckage or anything, they are using what looks not entirely dissimilar to an explosion sprite, and a tiny one at that, for a bloody battlecruiser.

Artheon

i'm hoping for a beta or demo soon. i shed a tear at every new bit of info about sc2 with nothing regarding a release date (or time frame of one) :'(

kw4k

I'm not sure why some people are making strange comments about this really low res video. Look at the high-res stills that have been getting posted to see a better representation of what this game looks like. I think that these videos give you a good sense of the action. I'm getting very impressed with the AI if I'm interpreting the things I see correctly (and yes I know this is a direct feed).

okenny :)

Keep in mind, Hydralisks were never supposed to shoot acid. All story sources indicate that they shoot spikes/spines, it's just a weirdness of the game that caused the squishy noise and green spew.

Moonshadow101

As far as the hydra projectiles go, it looks like you can see them when they're attacking ground units, but not air ones. I would guess this effect just isn't finished right now, so they'll probably be doing work on those effects between now and release.

I'd like some better looking aerial unit deaths in the final game. Back in the mid 90's the "strangely undersized explosion" was acceptable, but nowadays we need masses of twisted, burning metal careening violently into the ground.

Bruce Skillis

@Fyren: I can't believe you used the word "Octo-core" TWO MINUTES after me and a friend were discussing running Supreme Commander. He said he wanted a dual quadcore. I said "Wouldn't that be an octocore.."

Jesus christ. But yeah, I understand/believe that it can hardly be presented as proper critique seeing as how one game took it upon itself to show the world How It Should Be Done with no regard for the niveau of the actual, average, contemporary computers of the world. Starcraft of course being an aspiring E-sport giant, and of a rather specific style, can't do that, and I doubt anyone here believes it beyond Blizzard to make it a little fancier, they simply chose not to.

Damn. I think my respect/fanboyism for Blizzard is showing.

Artheon

I think we need to spawn more overlords.

Jashin

Why does every video Blizzard releases of this game look like it was encoded in 1997?

Seiru

@Artheon: Thats what happens if you want to please 10+million fanbase.

If everyone had an Octo-core, 9900gtx, then your wish will be fulfilled.

Fyren

This is like a game from 1996

baccardi84

Um, how did they take down a battlecruiser so fast?

exkon

@Artheon: Sry if this comes out as a double post. But NOTHING looks as good after Supreme Commander... and they most def can be compared. My biggest qualm will be not being able to fight over gigantic maps as big as a continent.

.. of course. Would be nice to finish a match without my machine chugging at least 3 or 4 times.

silkysm00th

Seriously... it used to be like an acidic/spiny shotgun spray that went 400 yards.... i could barely see the little spines there.

I'm liking the amount of moving Zerg on the screen in a few of the shots from that longer clip that came out earlier. Hoping to god the cap is enormous.

silkysm00th

I'm severly unimpressed by the way the terran aerial units go down. I know they can hardly be compared in this manner, but after Supreme Commander, I've become very aware of the way in which a unit is destroyed.

"Pop"? I mean, seriously.

Artheon

@Cronofan: Yeah, what the heck happened to the acid they used to shoot? :(

Aethyr: Brawl. Add me.

Yeah, the older noise was better.

Han Daimond

I find it slightly difficult to see the projectiles that the hydras are firing. Anyone else?

Cronofan

Does anyone else think the marines sound funny when they die? I mean i like the older noise.

Pieman2