@Koztah: And with a background of quietly cracking snow.

SSJPabs

@QualityJeverage:

And the sound of your own breath when you've been walking in knee-high snow for a good hour.

That's the most haunting part for me, the way my breathing sounds in a quiet snowed forest - the way the cold air carries the sound while at the same time you hear it "in your head".

Koztah

This article is great. Everyone should be so fortunate as to feel as passionate about their work at the guy who wrote this.

I don't really know a whole lot about snow sounds, but I can still get where this guy is coming from. It's like once you know that the "marshmallow" at the end of Ghostbusters is actually shaving cream, it never looks like marshmallow ever again. Knowing the truth totally destroys the illusion.

Number41

@Jamaces: Actually I totally agree, while its obviously not on the same level of fidelity as more modern hardware, the sound in Goldeneye was excellent.

To those not getting it: Have you never seen Fargo, or No Country For Old Men? The difference between a piece of media with superior sound production and one with artificially generated clips should be pretty clear to most serious gamers, the deaf/hard of hearing excepted of course. That we're talking about Winter is just because its typically been less of a problem for people to create "warm" soundscapes, as others have said more eloquently than I its much more difficult to simulate what happens to sound when the air itself is frozen.

DaiMacculate

Well, considering there probably won't be any more snow in 70 years, I'm all for capturing Authentic Winter Sounds(tm).

SSJPabs

i dont care what anyone says, goldeneye had it right on the spot for the winter sound.

Jamaces

Although I wasn't a big fan of the DMC4 gameplay, one thing that really struck me as being worthy of the hype was the sound effects in the game. They seemed so real! Along with real-time shadows, sound depth is something that most games really need to improve on.

On topic, sound in snowfall actually has a lot of layers. Obviously, footsteps are going to have that "crunch" sound and the sound of clumps of snow falling off your shoes every time you pick up your feet. Also, and one that many game-makers overlook, there is that "piff" sound snowflakes make when they hit the ground and clothing (or "click" if it's sleet). If you really want to get detailed, you can include the faint whistle of air as the flake falls to the ground. Plus, we mustn't forget that snow will be falling out of the trees occasionally if it builds enough, so we have to account for clumps and clouds of snow that come from that. As far as other sounds go, they will be partially absorbed by the porous nature of snow buildup, so we have to account for that in all other game sounds be muffling the echoes.

psychobaka

@DaiMacculate: I can also imagine the fun you can have recording these on site recording. I for one have not seen snow yet, but one day I should!

DranzerKire

The key word here is render:

You can apply render fx to sounds, I suspect. The source engine apply one of these "render" fx to the underwater sounds, so everything underwater sound different.
You could do that for a player in a winter storm, is not different.
The problem here, I supose, is that this stuff is too artisty.

tei

@Shiryu: Good ol' memories.

I think Donkey Kong Country's Northern Hemisphere levels got it right with the winter sounds. Heck, everytime is snows here in BC(which doesn't really happen too often), I'd listen to that DKC music track. It really sets in the mood.

Hosaka

Medal of Honor: Allied Assault for PC had an excellent winter level with tremendous ambient sounds.

FightingChance

@SigmundTheSeaMonster:

Why do I keep wanting to say city-slicker?

Look, a winter woodscape makes plenty of noise, even when there's no wind, no falling snow, no anything. Dead silence is incredibly rare, and is so unnatural that it's actually highly unnerving to most people when they actually encounter it.

The difference is, that a lot of people are so used to hearing more prominent noises, that they filter out the subtle stuff. For example, you might be so used to hearing cars passing by your house, that if that noise disappeared you wouldn't notice the sound of, melting icicles or freezing trees.

Unfortunately, this sort of subtlety, is REALLY hard to catch, and I fear most television speakers wouldn't do it justice.

WolvenOne

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: if you're referring to the article the author addresses that.

By ambience I don't mean background noises and whatever -- I mean the ambience which characterizes the sound itself, so that it isn't too "dry"
--

Let's think about this another way. A nature film might have a night scene with a bird singing. To me, that is just a typical bird singing. To birdwatchers, that same song could mean something totally different. Maybe he or she knows that bird doesn't make that kind of sound in the night but it does it in the morning. Again, realistic sounds communicate more than fake ones do.

I don't care if this qualifies me as "just another gamer", but I don't care that much. Most people aren't birdwatchers. It's about knowing your audience. If I'm not marketing the movie towards birdwatchers, or heck on the off chance I'm making a movie that has a target audience that selects for people who aren't birdwatchers then I don't care if I have night songs in the day.

Wolfkin

Ambient winter sounds? You on crack??? When it snows, there is no sound! It is like falling insulation!
And if there is anything (wind, etc...) else making a noise, its usually your breathe, heartbeat, and crunching of any (frozen) snow or earth.

SigmundTheSeaMonster

Oh, might add.

When Snow is newly fallen it hardly makes any noise at all. In Alaska however, things become so cold that snow very quickly freezes. That might seem like an odd statement, but there is a difference between frozen and unfrozen snow. In most of the lower 48, snow isn't fully crystallized, there's a little bit of moisture, if it is cold enough, that little bit of moisture will freeze together and create a crust of ice on top of the snow.

So you have a crunchy crust on the top, and below the top layer, you have what amounts to little iddy biddy teeny tiny ice beads which are very rough and do not stick together very well.

The net effect of this, is a very crunch snow, that is rather loud, even if the cold air muffles it. It's rather hard to walk though, but it's so thick and bouyant that it's pretty darn good for snow shoeing.

WolvenOne

I completely know where this article is coming from. I mean, every time I play a game with a winter or snow area (and c'mon, that's practically every game ever made) I think to myself "This game seriously needs better in-game winter sounds." It's the difference between a good game, and a great game. Totally.

Fonic

@Cogito:

It is a pretty harsh experience, ghostly too. I mean, some noises seem to make less sound than you would think, while others make more. That being said, wouldn't give up those ten years I lived up in Alaska for anything.

Beautiful state, made all the more beautiful by the sheer unforgiving brutality of it all. You can't get that sort of experience at a zoo or park.

WolvenOne

@Draig: Yellow snow effects were mastered in South Park on the N64 :P

Actually, I grew up in Florida -- snowless. So, when I moved to the Boston area for about 5 years, the thing I was most struck by was how loud snow is when you walk on it ... it can be seriously crunchy. Ever since then, I totally notice if walking on snow sounds right in games. No, seriously ... I do.

jayntampa

@Evil Tortie's Mom:

Nose hairs? Boyo, I've had my eyelashes freeze together on me, which is actually pretty disconcerting because it temporarily leaves you blind.

You're right though, Snow does crunch, but it's a muffled crunch. They would be better off spending their time working on suitable, "tree creeking," noises. When the temperature drops, moisture in trees expand slightly and make these, creeking noises. They can get quite loud, especially if there's a little bit of wind to sway the tree at the same time.

WolvenOne

@QualityJeverage: I totally agree. Games can use silence to add to the desired effect. As in making an area seem quite peaceful and serene, or the too quiet, something must be wrong sort of thing. The issue with snow, is it dampens sound. Really you should hear much less than non-snowy times, only whats really close to you.

DrunkRaba

@WolvenOne: That's some really interesting stuff. I'd like to see that someday...sounds like a hell of an experience. The coldest I've ever felt is -20F, in good 'ole Pittsburgh. Doesn't get that cold in DC ever.

On topic, I agree with pretty much everything that's been said thus far. So far we don't really have accurate sounds to emulate winter...the best attempts are in musical form, where the background music (so long as it is by a good composer) can really add to the atmosphere. But, that is sort of cheating the system; if you really want ambience, it has to BE ambience, not just filler (that's not to say that music isn't good, BTW).

One thing I have to wonder is why winter sounds were singled out. Tropical islands? Rocky ledges? Hell, even busy city streets...none of them are really spot-on when it comes to sound design.

Cogito

@WolvenOne: It won't be true to life till they get that feeling of your nose hairs freezing up and crinkling as you breathe.

People who've gone out in below zero F know exactly what I mean and those who haven't can't imagine it sufficiently.

Snow in games and some movies/TV crunches too much -- too many echoes and too sharp of a sound.

Evil Tortie's Mom

Man, I think I need to switch my major into sound design because this sort of thing fascinates me.

MIKEAWESOME

Wind sounds are great and all, but like some people have said, winter noises are much more than that. My neighbourhood feels dead quiet whenever it snows, but it just makes any other sound so much louder, because the surrounding ambience is muffled. The rustle of fabric (as it stiffens in the chill), crunch of snow, shortening of breath as the cold goes through your body, or even just the faint background noises of water when the snow's melting when the temperature's hovering around that 0 degrees mark.

I think there's also some weird subconcious, pre-conceived notion that when there's no one around and there's a sudden sound, it echoes, and in many cases that's true. But when it's snowing (normal snowfall, and not blizzard conditions), I find that echoes are muffled, if not eliminated completely. Certain sounds definitely feel further away.

@Shiryu: Agreed. Actually, when I was playing FFXII, one of my favourite locations ended up being Paramina Rift. The music worked really well with the area to give a very cold feeling.

epherlite

As a former resident of Alaska, I can personally testify that no game captures the feel of a harsh winter correctly, and sound may very be the principle cause of this short-coming.

I mean, seriously, when it gets cold enough, EVERYTHING makes a noise. Surfaces crunch, squeak, shuffle. Then there's the sound of wind, which seems to echo far more in the winter and changes constantly based on your position and the speed/direction of the wind.

Let me put it to you this way. When you're walking through an environment, where it regularly becomes sixty below after dark, and daylight only lasts a few hours, the various sounds and sensations creates an atmosphere that leaves you with the distinct impression that, "it wants you dead."

I'm serious about this, it is so harsh, so noisy, and so ghostly, that it feels like the world is actively, "trying," to kill you.

I've not yet experienced a video game that came close to, inducing this sensation. It's probably impossible to do so actually, unless you're playing said game in a walk-in freezer. However, using better winter sounds, may at the very least, reduce the disparity between game sounds and actual real life winter sounds.

WolvenOne

One thing that to my knowledge has never been brought across in games (or much of anything) is how weird the acoustics get when it's really cold. It isn't just the quality of the snow that changes...the way the air carries sound changes. I notice the article didn't mention that little difficulty in getting their sounds, either. Sound really carries in cold air. If it's 30 or 40 below, and you want it to be quiet, you have to be miles from the nearest road. And the way smaller sounds drop off as they get more distant is similarly different from what most people are used to.

TechnoDestructo

@Black-Dog-Howls:

It may be silent, but not completely silent. It's the little ambient noises of you walking, small animals walking and/or disturbing the snow and other things. The snow melting included and sounds assoiciated with snow falling off of a branch. Sound design in a game may not be as important as visual design, but sound design can really make or break a game. It's what seperates great games from the best games and good games from great games. Bioshock, for example, has some of the best sound design I've ever heard in a game.

CarbonFalcon

I think it's one of those things that you don't know you want until you hear it.

Then it raises the value of the game tremendously.

LORDofDANCE

I've heard winter before. It sounds like silence when the wind stops blowing.

Black-Dog-Howls

I've never really thought about this before, but as someone who loves winter and snow, I'm all for more realistic snow sound effects.

Destrado

The first thing of I thought of reading this was the sound of trees "popping", exploding from the pressure of their sap freezing solid and thawing alternately.

I for one would love it if voice work and ambient sounds in games were to start focusing even more on site recordings instead of studio work, studio work is nice and probably required for correcting and remastering the site recordings regardless, but nothing can replace the real sounds of someone running in sub-freezing weather, half frozen leaves crushing under foot, breath coming ragged from the cold as they try to escape....

Yeah, good sound in games is nice.

DaiMacculate

Lol woops, sorry, I completly forgot the paargrahp where I was sayign how music always had the ability to transmit the feeling of snow even with out proper soudn effects. Think Final Fantasy VII while chasing Sepiroth.

My kingdom for an edit button!

Shiryu

Has there been a game that has truly mastered realistic yellow snow effects yet?
If so, I doubt it perfected the sound of snow melting.

Draig

Nevermind the need for better in-game winter sounds, what about the need for a dispenser here?!

Need a dispenser here!

ErskinPig

@Clarke: Well spoken.

Anyone remembers Donkey Kong Country? Video I made for my blog:

+ Watch video

How about Secret of Mana Ice Country? Its part of this video:

+ Watch video

Maybe you prefer Wipeout's Silverstream?

+ Watch video

There are so many great examples out there, even predating the current generation of hardware. I like snow in my games.

Capcom's Lost Planet keeps poping into mind, its like Dune on ice, where the "actor" know as sand from Dune become ice and snow.

Shiryu

Ah, the wind softly blowing the snow against the pine trees...the muffled sound of it underneath your feet...the old people having heart attacks in their driveways while trying to shovel themselves out.

Tetley

Walking through the woods or an unpopulated area in the winter is beautiful. It's completely silent save for the snow crunching under your feet. I'd like to see a game try and capture that, without the howling wind noises or anything, just the silence and footsteps.

QualityJeverage

I remember thinking it was pretty neat hearing the sound of crunching snow in Oblivion as you walked around the Bruma area.

Jest

Edge this month did a fantastic article on the importance of sound and how people don't really realise it - they update their graphics cards on the computer every 20 seconds but not their sound cards, and its true, mute a game and then see how well you do at it/how much you feel intertwined with it.

A lot of commenters here are being far fetched about how this doesn't matter - all the sounds matter for realism. I forgot where it was, was it Bashcraft on here, I've forgotten, where he said that explosions didn't seem real after he saw 9/11 outside his window, and to get you to feel something in a game you've got to feel like its realistic.

I recommend getting a copy of Edge or seeing if the article was copied on NextGen about the importance of sound in the industry.

Communist_Gamer

there are many times i have been playing a game and then somehow the sounds in the 'winter' level ruin it all for me... oh no wait, that's never ever happened ever. i get confused.

comedy

There's this one howling wind sound effect that's been used for 90% of the snow and desert areas in games and movies for at least fifteen years now

frostcircus

Little known fact: In Finland, snow is extremely noisy. It sounds kind of like a wounded kitten's pathetic mewls, except with a slightly higher pitch.

Moonshadow101

I can't say I have been dissatified with any winter sounds in game. I am sure there are some that need better sounds but as long as you get the wind and the snow being crushed under your feet I am good

clintonskneecap

I loved the ambiance of Phendrana Drifts in Metroid Prime.

Clarke

Around my area that aren't that many snow sounds besides wind and a passing car.

ostartero

My favorite music cd is Substrata, an ambient compilation by an artist called Biosphere, who fantastically captures the subtleties of a wintery day. Things like ice cracking, trees bending under the weight of snow, wind in the trees, etc, come together to create a very soothing sound. Perhaps not so coincidently, he is from Norway, where they must have a lot of experience with winter sounds. I grew up in Northern Canada, and something I have a hard time describing to people is the sound the northern lights make. It's a fascinating area of the world, and will take a very talented person to bring that experience to the gaming public, but necessary for true immersion. I look forward to it. :)

skrutor

Actually, there was a game made a few years ago to reflect the harsh "silence" of winter. It was a little survival/horror game called 'D2' for the Dreamcast, which was set in the Canadian wilderness. I thought it did a great job of limiting background music, and focusing on the "aloneness" of winter desolation. The reviews for gameplay weren't all that good, but the atmosphere of the game was first-rate. They still have reviews on IGN and Gamespot, if anyone's interested in looking into it.

Bardic