Guizzy said: Yeah, but what they are offering is beyond what's available on computers, and they run most of it off their own servers. TeamSpeak/Ventrilo servers aren't free either.

That would be one possible benefit of subscription, but even that doesn't hold up anymore. Teamspeak/Ventrilo servers are not difficult to set up on a personal PC (best for those who have friends with slightly beefier internet connections), but there are even alternatives there, such as Xfire which doesn't take up alot of resources, and most games are incrementing built-in voice chat programs anyway.

LordMagnusMastah

@fleet: Well, I haven't heard of this, but if this is true, then Valve would most likely want to make it free to the public. I say "most likely" because there would obviously be some advantage to releasing it on consoles for a price, not for the FINANCIAL benefits necessarily, but an onlooker would certainly be more liable to say "Wow, you have to pay for this on consoles, but its free on PCs? What am I doing on consoles, then?" It certainly puts Valve in a good light in comparison, and they may possibly be aiming for that.

I personally do not believe that, however. I believe there is a certain amount of other activities that occur beyond what we can see or have been told regarding this issue.

LordMagnusMastah

This doesn't sound right to me. Is it possible that Doug Lombardi is just mis-informed? Microsoft has said themselves that pricing for downloadable content is up to the publishers. The only time we have ever heard of Microsoft requiring someone to charge for DLC when they didn't want to is with Epic and Gears of War, which was published by Microsoft. There have been plenty of other games that have offered free downloadable content so there is no reason why Valve can't have it also as long as EA agrees. I think Valve needs to double check their facts.

fleet

Online console gaming will never be taken seriously if it continues to charge for things like this. New maps and stuff have always been free for PC users, unless they came in a physically bought expansion pack, and then you usually got more than just a single new map.

TheSmiterer

just hurry up and get it to us, i just wanna play them

Shad

@Rectangle:

I don't get this double standard either. How can Criterion release their map packs for free while Valve can't? This whole pointing fingers about who's really in charge of setting the rates for DLC is getting old.

With that said, I'd believe Valve over M$ or Sony when they say that they don't want to charge for them 'cause they're pretty reliable when it comes to information. M$ and Sony on the other hand...

MrLookback

@ErskinPig: Oh was it? Maybe you'd like to PROVE it, right?

Show me 10 games where any significant amount of maps were released for free BY THE DEVELOPERS.

Go on, I'll wait.

@Toprem: First off, english is not my first language so if you would please excuse my sometimes lacking mastery of homonyms.

"Secondly, map packs aren't like expansion since expansions generally deal with extra missions / plotlines / quests and are much greater in depth and scope than just a couple of maps."
Expansions are also usually cost from 15$ to 60$. Most downloadable content is 5$ or less. If they could have split expansions into smaller chunk and sell them separately, it would have probably happened before Xbox Live. But they couldn't, because the price of selling it retail separately would have been staggering, and that most paying download channels at that point were unreliable failures (Steam notwithstanding, but Steam concerns only a small minority of games).

As for added quests, storylines and such, I'd point you to Mass Effect, which just recieved an extra hour and half or so quest. Sure, alone it's not worthy of an expansion, but once they get, say, 5 or more quests like that, it will be.

As I said before twice; SOME downloadable content is ridiculous. Sure, new outfits for characters are not worth 3 bucks. Unlocking cheat codes isn't worth anything. Unlocking stuff that is already on the disk is unpardonable.

But that isn't the majority of downloadable content. Most of it is stuff that would have been packed in an expansion pack and sold if there wasn't a store you could buy it off.

"As for Rock Band / Guitar Hero content, people are dumber than fuck for falling for that scam. It's because of that crap that we won't see a version of either of them for some time where we can just put in our own songs. If we had that, they couldn't nickle and dime retards that buy into DLC."

They would have never allowed that, DLC or not. The music industry would have stamped them out. Hard.

Guizzy

@Guizzy: 'THIS CONTENT WAS NEVER FREE BEFORE XBOX LIVE.'

Yes. Yes it was. Sorry, but that killed any chance of me seriously retorting your points. You're either too far gone or you work for MS. Either way, I'm wasting my time.

ErskinPig

@Guizzy: First off, learn to spell, it's expansion. Secondly, map packs aren't like expansion since expansions generally deal with extra missions / plotlines / quests and are much greater in depth and scope than just a couple of maps.

Not only that, PC users have access to map making tools which beats the hell out of what consoles will ever have in this generation, UT3 (PS3) withstanding. DLC for the most part is a complete joke for the consoles, yet dumbasses lap that shit up because they're too goddamn dumb to realize they're getting reamed up the ass.

Oblivion is the only game with DLC that would be remotely worth paying for, and onyl for SI and KotN at that (KotN is pushing it). Even still, it's still a rip off due to how short they are (and the fact that for consoles you have to pay for them without going through a lot of work to mod your console). In any case, Oblivion sucks on the consoles anyway due to, again, the lack of player mods.

As for Rock Band / Guitar Hero content, people are dumber than fuck for falling for that scam. It's because of that crap that we won't see a version of either of them for some time where we can just put in our own songs. If we had that, they couldn't nickle and dime retards that buy into DLC.

Toprem

dude, valve KNOOOOOOOOWS that the ps3 will release it for free.

they only worded it this way so that microsoft will feel MORE compelled to make the content free, to stay on par with sony.

but microsoft ALSO knows that if they make this map free, they are going to have to open the flood-gates for free content.

i know that the recent game N+ ALSO wants to give out free content... but microsoft won't let them.

we'll see if that changes, i would be surprised if microsoft doesn't give in here.. despite a long history of them fighting against allowing free content.

hell, they pay for wallpapers don't they? i mean, wtf is up with that?

joelface

@Falcon: Every game on the platform supported. That's what Xbox Live has that Steam doesn't.

Guizzy

@LordMagnusMastah: Windows Live can eat a bag of shit, Im glad I didn't try and pay for The Club for the PC, because I would have been out $50 and have a copy of a game that refuses to fucking work.

Toprem

@Toprem: Oh, and how would that be?

Those expension packs are only different because they have to put more stuff in it to cover the costs of selling it retail.

There IS some DLC that is ridiculous, true, but there are games where when you take all the DLC that have been made, add up the price and you've got yourself an expansion. Think Oblivion's Shivering Isles(and, eh, forget the horse armor please). Think the huge list of new cars that were made for Test Drive Unlimited. Think of the songs for GH/Rock Band.

All that content would have never been free before XBox Live. They'd have packaged it and sold it as an expansion, like they did for Shivering Isles.

Guizzy

@Guizzy: Like what?

Steam has stats tracking, in-game/out-of-game/group-based voice chat (for free), friends lists, etc.

What does XBL have that's so amazing that Steam doesn't have yet?

Falcon

@LordMagnusMastah: Yeah, but what they are offering is beyond what's available on computers, and they run most of it off their own servers. TeamSpeak/Ventrilo servers aren't free either.

Guizzy

@Guizzy: Expansion packs are nothing remotely close to what map packs are. People that put up with DLC bullshit like this is what is causing console gaming to be all queered up.

Toprem

@ErskinPig: Expension packs are nothing more than 30$ of DLC put together and sold as such.

The only thing Microsoft introduced here is a way for publishers to sell that without having to pack it all in a box and cover the costs involved into putting an expansion on retail shelves.

Before XBL, developpers would simply wait until they have 30$'s worth of add-on stuff and release an expension. And we'd have to pay for all or nothing of it. THAT'S ALL.

And before XBL, VERY VERY few developers bothered creating new maps for free once their game was released. It was either community-made content or nothing.

There's not stockholm syndrome here; they're making content and it's up to you to decide if you want to pay for it. THIS CONTENT WAS NEVER FREE BEFORE XBOX LIVE.

Guizzy

I like other gamers I know have repurchased games when special editions or directors cut versions came out with more content. DLC allows you to just buy the content without repaying for the game. Yes the system has flaws which some companies have abused but that does not negate the good that has come about from it. The people who feel that all DLC should be free should think that this is bonus content that would not exist without a venue to sell it.

xAngelGabrielx

I assume that in the case of the PS3, it's actually EA's call, given that Valve directs everyone to EA for support for any problems in the game and that they didn't do the port *or* publish the product.

And what's the likelihood of EA saying "free"? Would you say it's higher or lower than that of Microsoft doing so?

gblock

hahahaahahaha LOL @ console fags. *resumes playing TF2 custom map* (literally too, Im playing TF2 as I post this).

Toprem

How I hate this generation of consoles.

Darkest Daze

Lol talking bout people trying to be savvy...

slomo788

I'm not psychiatrist, but I think many are suffering from Stockholm syndrome.

Please read about it here and seek the necessary help. You'll all be in my prayers:

[en.wikipedia.org]

ErskinPig

Unless it's free the company that charges will get slammed like a 17-year old in Cabo during spring break.

The bigger issue is future sales not current sales. If someone has both systems do they choose better frame-rate or free DLC (of course this is assuming Sony goes the free route)?

incredibilistic

@Guizzy:

Translation: Please nickel and dime me to death, Microsoft.

By the way, please go back to forums.xbox.com so you can hang out with more people like you who just love paying for DLC.

iamnotdryad

@LordMagnusMastah: You speak the truth sir. I'm glad there's at least someone else out there with an ounce of common sense. :P

ErskinPig

@Guizzy: True, but Microsoft certainly did impose the trend of paying an annual fee for just playing your games online; a trend they're trying to impose upon the PC audience. It's a fine marketing plan for the console that they own because it's the only option for consoles, but for PC gamers who have NEVER had to pay fees beyond the game/expansion packs (not including MMOs, don't get me started on those), the annual paying plan is utter crap. Sure, its not an outrageous price, but its just the concept that we have to pay for something that has been free for us for so long thats upsetting. Microsoft just strikes me as wanting to do nothing but squeeze the most money they can out of their audiences, whereas Valve actually knows what gamers (and developers, regarding Steamworks) really want.

I would love to see Steamworks completely beat down the Games for Windows LIVE initiative; that would make me an extremely happy PC gamer. :3

LordMagnusMastah

@Guizzy: I despair...I really do.

Expansion packs are substantial additions, not trivial. Most DLC - the overwhelming majority of it IS trivial.

And yes, MS did create the culture. No one paid for maps before then.

STOP DEFENDING THE UNDEFENDABLE!!! ffs.

ErskinPig

Of course Valve doesn't have much say over the price of DLC on consoles, and those saying that they do aren't really thinking about the issue. DLC that pops up on the 360 for free is something that Microsoft knows will do really well or will increase publicity for the game, or possibly another marketing strategy of which I cannot think of at the moment.

Microsoft and Valve kinda butt heads anyway, so odds are that Valve DLC will be for a price. Then again, Microsoft might release it for free just to try and "rival" what Valve is doing on Steam.

LordMagnusMastah

Ho-ho-ho, this is going to be awesome. Major Nelson is always talking about how MS isn't to blame for DLC rape...now we'll find out for sure.

KaneRobot

@ErskinPig: WHAT is grotesque here? That developers keep working on their games after releasing and want to make some money by selling these?

Microsoft didn't invent charging for additional content, or create a culture of anything here. Before XBox Live's DLC, there were expension packs. And people paid for expension packs.

It's a big fat lie on Valve's part that they can't have their stuff for free on Xbox Live or the PSN; heck look two posts below this one: Burnout Paradise's DLC is going to be free. And heck, there are a lot of precedents of Microsoft letting some DLC be free. We had Texas Hold'em free for a while. There have been free DLC for quite a few games: Test Drive Unlimited, Dead Rising...

As long as the DLC is actually new content (and not cheatcodes or disk-unlocks), there is nothing wrong with paying for it.

Guizzy

I don't care which, free or charge, just release it damn it

MaoChan

@Rectangle: I didn't say that. I said Sony would not be able to get away with it if MS had always released DLC for free on XBL. Ifs and buts aside, MS were the ones to institute this culture, not Sony. That's just a fact.

Sony charging is equally unacceptable, however.
_________________________________________________

Just to go off on a tangent, it makes me laugh and cry how people seem to see these things as an excuse to show off how business savvy they (think they) are by pseudo-defending these rip-off merchants. Just because you understand their obvious reasoning, it doesn't make it any less grotesque!

ErskinPig

They'll either both charge or both won't because they have to compete. Overall though, I have the PC version so I get the update for free regardless :P lawl

-AS

Archaic Stigma

In a way, this isn't news. Bungie stated with their DLC for Halo 3 that pricing was up to Microsoft, not them. I remember they even hinted that they could only get Microsoft to agree that the DLC would be free eventually.

GrumpyJedi

@JasonR: For maps I suppose it depends on the publisher. For example user-generated stuff is free on PSN. Themes are free on PSN. But most importantly, online play is free on PSN.
But just like Microsoft, Sony as a publisher does charge for DLC.

slomo788

@Setzer IIDX: "It goes beyond the realm of 360/PS3 for me.
I've not trusted MS since...I believe Windows 2000 had a bug in it's code. A forum of users created a patch themselves and submitted it to MS, who turned around and sold this free patch that users developed for cash."

Microsoft doesn't charge for patches for Windows, Office, XBox, or any of their software. Sounds like an urban legend to me.

Rectangle

Anyone that thinks Sony will charge and MS won't obviously don't have a PS3...

Oh, and I agree that Valve should allow stuff to be distroed on PS3 the same way that UT3 is. Or, rather, BETTER than UT3 because as it is, it's incredibly cumbersome and repetitive doing it one at a time. I think that Source mods, for instance, should be possible on the PS3 just like Unreal Editor mods are possible on the PS3...

bobtheduck

@ErskinPig: "MS set the precedent. Yes, Sony could overturn it, but it would be almost impossible for them to charge if MS had never instigated the charging culture on XBL."

MS just got to the DLC faster than anyone else.

So you think Sony never would have thought to charge for DLC before Microsoft thought it up? Please.

Sony is in this business to make money, just like Microsoft is.

Rectangle

Here is a list of free DLC on XBL through 7/27/07. So now everybody can stop complaining about how MS charges for EVERYTHING.

[www.xbox360achievements.org]

How much free stuff is on PSN?

JasonR

Good for freaking Valve. People love to lambaste PC gaming lately (why I have no idea, it's just gotten popular all the sudden) but it amazes me the kind of crap people put up with. Charging prices for something like a multiplayer map is ridiclious. Heck, the very fact that Micrsoft gets away with charging its constiuents for P2P service and than hoists extra costs for things most gamers get for free? That's a joke.

This content is free to PC users, there's no reason it can't be free to consoles.

Evdor

@Rectangle: Thank you!!!

slomo788

Sony shud give it away just to get the good press about it.

Lanhoj

Is'nt DLC for UT3 free? Valve could easily distribute like Maps and Mods are distributed for UT3.

cduran02

Sony charges for dlc at the same rate as Microsoft. I understood when people bashed Microsoft before the PS3 came out but now that its obvious that Sony is going to follow the same structure people should either flame both or neither of them.

xAngelGabrielx

@Rectangle: It goes beyond the realm of 360/PS3 for me.
I've not trusted MS since...I believe Windows 2000 had a bug in it's code. A forum of users created a patch themselves and submitted it to MS, who turned around and sold this free patch that users developed for cash.

Setzer IIDX

pidgcateons - that's certainly put the cat among the pidgeons!

comedy

@Rectangle: MS set the precedent. Yes, Sony could overturn it, but it would be almost impossible for them to charge if MS had never instigated the charging culture on XBL.

ErskinPig

Paying for DLC is something that I object to, simply because of the proportion of cost to content. If I pay a fifth of what the game originally cost me, I expect to receive a fifth of the amount of content in the original game. Not 2 new skins and the ability to blow people kisses.

Staggy

There is a lot of free DLC on XBox Live. Hell, there is probably more free DLC on XBox Live then there is actual DLC (free and otherwise) on the Sony Store. ;)

The expansion islands in Burnout Paradise are going to be free.

I don't see why this won't also be free, if the publisher and the developer want it to be free.

I just don't get why people consider Sony to be saints, here, and MS to be the devil of DLC pricing. I must have missed the reams of free DLC on the playstation store the last time I was there looking through their paltry set of free game demos.

Rectangle

Prisoner's dillema. Both sony and microsoft have two options.

- Sony and Microsoft both charge. We hate them both, but we (grudgingly) pay for the content.
- Sony can make it available for free, and microsoft can make it paid (say 800 points). In which case Sony wins, at least temporarily. (and for the fanboys, laugh at the other side) (But then the other prisoner gets out eventually...right?)
- Sony can make it paid, and Microsoft can make it free. In this case, MS wins temporarily. (ditto side comment(s) as above)
- Sony and Microsoft are both free. The ideal situation. We <3 them both. Temporarily.

...I just had to do this >_>

Uchikoma

Gabe Newell for President.

Actually, I used to complain endlessly about Valve and Steam, but I've been in love with them since getting the Orange Box. Steam went from annoying to a great service, lots of freebies provided, and it patches all my Steam games automatically when I log in. Including all my new free TF2 maps :)

BTW, Audiosurf is crack, since I haven't mentioned that for a day or two here on Kotaku.

Karlott

@slomo788: Stop talking to me now.

ErskinPig

@ErskinPig: Who here is arguing the morals of charging for DLC besides you?

slomo788

Wait a minute. How many times have we heard Major Nelson on his podcast talking about how DLC pricing is set by the publisher of the game. Every time a Guitar Hero track pack comes out, he has to say this to clam down irate gamers. Is he lying? Are we to believe Valve has a different deal than Activision?

Something funny going on here.

LordPotato

As a proud Steam user, I couldn't care less about what the console platform holders want to charge for the free content.

little_dragon

Nice one Valve. Let them look like the vicious greedy jerks.

I dig.

lionkitten

@slomo788: Well duh, but that's beside the point.

ErskinPig

Sad console gamers, shoveling out money for updates.

I thought console gaming was suppose to be cheaper.

Diesel_Power

where do we place our bets on who is gonna be more expensive??

steliosco

@Tiberian: Since you're answering questions, is there an MS policy of enforcing a mandatory surcharge for DLC extras.

doctorwily

@ErskinPig: Dude, I'm not here to say what's wrong or not. All I'm saying is don't be surprised if Sony does it, because it's not that stupid. If it was successful for Microsoft, it will be for them too.

slomo788

If it was free on 360 I might download it.

Rebelphoenix83

@slomo788: If Sony charge then they're no less deserving of scorn. It is MS that have allowed this 'OK to charge for trivial content' culture to develop on consoles and Sony have simply followed in their wake.

Tragically, MS have managed to successfully overturn several precedents regarding online gaming & services that have long been established on the PC - none of which are in the best interests of consumers and all of which are about taking more money from us wherever they feel they can get away with it!

No ifs, no buts, no excuses. It's just plain *wrong*.

ErskinPig

Valve likes giving maps away free because them people associate their brand with good quality/value. This way you are more likely to pay the $60 on their newest game because you know it will be worth the money.

greeble

M$ better make it free, at least for gold members. We already pay for live (I don't mind that all that much since it is a well set up online service), but to charge for DL content that the makers of the game are providing for free, and trying to make a buck off of it would be ridiculous. I have only paid for one set of DL content (the first map pack for PDZ), but other than that I will not pay for DL content. More of the stuff needs to be free. as well once you've released a sequel the DL content for the prior game should be free (ie COD2 or GRAW to show a little love to the fans). If M$ says they need to charge for the bandwidth, look at demos, they are ~1 gb and are free so suck it up and give the maps to us for free.

CyberG4

Going this route, if the DLC ends up costing money, Sony and Microsoft will get the flack. Thats bad PR right there, so now they are more inclined to not charge.

Nik2045

Dude, where the hell is that Orange box patch for the PS3!?

DigiMish

@ErskinPig: I'm a gamer, and if it's ok for the devs and the publisher to put DLC for free, I will be the first to jump in joy. All I'm saying is people should not be too quick to guess what Sony will or will not do. The Orange Box was a sweet deal by itself and a mix of marvelous games overall. Due to its popularity, I'd be highly surprised if either Sony or Microsoft makes DLC free. That's all I'm saying.

slomo788

@Setzer IIDX: I really don't think they ever plan to undercut each other.

GUNLOC_MORIYM

It's times like these that I really love my computer.

Quilt

@Tiberian: 'Microsoft actually has a policy that if DLC is "free" on another console, then its free on XBL'

Translation: If we can get away with ripping people off, we will.

Give MS and inch & they take a mile. It's time for a backlash. Seriously.

ErskinPig

@slomo788: There is only one reasonable price: free.

ErskinPig

@Cruz: You misunderstand. I <3 Trolling when done right.

Valve- Okay guys, charge what you want. Your call.
MS- Well we'll be charging 800 MS Points
Sony- We'll be doing it for free. Nyah.
MS- Good luck inviting friends with your in game XMB...OH SNAP
Sony- How's all that money you charge working out to insulate your servers? Gotta make sure they're nice and warm so they overheat and crash from strain for 3 weeks.
MS- Jerk.
Sony- Asshat.

Setzer IIDX

@MrMcdoobie: I don't do drugs: Microsoft actually has a policy that if DLC is "free" on another console, then its free on XBL. Of course they said this a long time ago.. not sure if thats still the case but if anyone can point to content costing money on 360 and it being free for PS3, then kotaku commentors should know.

Tiberian

@jynxycat: What does that have to do with anything?

slomo788

@dead_red_eyes: I'm a big fan of Valve as well, so there are a few of us :)

Agnitio

I think Microsoft can learn more than a thing or two from Valve. Steam's got it going "on", in my humble opinion.

CrashHedgehog

and PC gaming is supposed to be expensive -_-

jynxycat

Glad I bought this for the PC. would be stupid if this is not free...

boots555

@Setzer IIDX: You can't possibly accuse my dear Valve of trolling, when they only answered a question asked by our beloved Kotaku writer.

I agree, good job Kotaku for bringing up the issue.

Cruz

I'd like to see TF2 become downloadable as a whole.

njhardcoreguy

So, how much free content do I get to put on Steam, again?

SaintWaldo

I'm interested in what the actual outcome will be. I mean people now know that the power lies in the hands of Microsoft and Sony. I see no reason for Microsoft to charge for it, because they already allow free demos and such (they have the subscription fee to help allow for such things). However for Sony they might just want to take the hit, other wise they're going to get a bit of poor PR (both sides will). Although I wouldn't be all too surprised if either charged a small amount for the content.

It'll be interesting if Sony and Microsoft decide on different solutions :)

Agnitio

@el_gordo:

You too? I thought that I was the only person that actually likes Valve on here, the same goes for Steam.

dead_red_eyes

@Setzer IIDX: Microsoft is not dumb in putting prices either. People still bought Gears DLC like crazy and will buy TF2 DLC like crazy, as long as they are priced reasonably (the game doesn't have that many maps to begin with). Sony wouldn't be dumb either. These details count for us hardcore gamers who read Kotaku in our flame wars, but I want to believe that charging for DLC won't damage PS3 sales that much. I know they didn't damage the 360's.

slomo788

I've said it before...

If someone in floating in a swimming pool full of money yelling "Wow, I really don't want this money, I really wish I could give it to you, but my hands are tied!"

You should be at least a bit skeptical, no?

Moonshadow101

It's a good way for Valve to pressure Sony and Microsoft by getting this info out there. Nice work Kotaku! You've just increased our chances of us all getting it for free in my book.

1981suede

Just like in file size with SF2 HD and Bionic Commando, MS will follow in Sony's foot steps.

Hey!, who knows maybe the will finally make Xbox live FREE!

CALIX

Sony is going to put it out there for free. Last time I checked they didn't force a minimum price like MS does.

I see MS selling it for 500 - 800 MS points.

HurricaneDave

@slomo788: Sony's not dumb. They know this is a chance to continue trends. At the least, they'll undercut MS.

Setzer IIDX

And there you have it. Let there be no further myths surrounding the grubby money-grabbing nature of MS and the DLC con they've successfully instituted. What a tragedy for console owners.

ErskinPig

Oh, Valve. How I love thee.

el_gordo

This is some sort of cop-out by Valve. If they want their content to be free, then they can do it. There has been free DLC on XBL before and it was recently announced the Burnout Paradise's content will be free. Valve has no excuses, and can stop with the MS blame.

JasonR

@MrMcdoobie: I don't do drugs: The secret is in being the underdog. With the latest sale figures I fear things might not be so predictable anymore. *sighs*

slomo788

Bah, I know MS will charge, oh well I'll still buy them no doubt.

Numero10

If one charges more than the other we will never hear the end of it...

Astrofox

Valve- Trolling +5

Let's see how this turns out *glee*

Setzer IIDX

Wait, what? Sony doesn't demand payment for all DLC like microsoft does. Sony may make it free just to spite MS, MS will have to follow suit just in this case...

Epic will be pissed off because they wanted the DLC on Gears to be free, Microsoft wouldn't let them, but MS didn't have to do this on Gears because it was exclusive and they wouldn't have Sony to compete with...

This'll be fun, in any case.

bobtheduck

If I were Sony I'd say free - you know MS will charge 800 Points.

MrMcdoobie: I don't do drugs

Way to flame an already raging war Valve. I expect both to price them in the $8-$10 range.

slomo788

For all the people hating on MS for the DLC, the publisher is the one that decides the price. Hence why Halo and Gears cost money. Since the Orange Box is only distributed by EA, it is up to MS since it has no publisher.

DaxterKing