Facing Worlds BEST goddamned UT map ever!

Witzbold

@Tepoz: You hit the nail on the head with the complexity argument. The very fact that the flow of maps and mods from enthusiast gamers has slowed to a trickle in the last 5 years compared to the heyday of the mid-late 90s is testament to that. It just takes a ton more work to design new textures, models, and levels for a game like UT3 or Crysis than it did for Quake. People still do it, and those people rock and I thank them, but they're not a rapidly growing group, most of the people with the requisite skills do their game work for pay these days ;)

One of the reasons communities around old-ass games like Marathon and Doom never quite die either is because of the ease of the tools. I can throw together a basic Marathon 2 MP map in 20 minutes, with no real prep work (yeah it would suck but thats not my point), but trying to use Unreal Editor is kind of daunting.

Long story short, good PC maps themselves are becoming less likely to be available/free, and you (ErskinPig, Lokku, others making this argument) expect them to be free on consoles, where an even higher level of technical ability/game access is required, when the devs own programmers logged hours making them?

I love that Epic does this, and I hope other devs follow their example, but shouting a "FREE DLC" rallying cry all over the 'net isn't gonna change things. Nor are you going to stop any of us buying games we want to buy, and then buying DLC if we think the game is good enough to merit it.

The real solution? Put all this time and energy into becoming programmers/designers yourselves, and then one day it will be your call. Props if thats already where you're headed ;)

DaiMacculate

isn't that the Outland Battleground map in WOW?

clintonskneecap

UT99 definitely had free official maps released. UT2003 had at least one pack from what I remember, UT2004 had around 3 from what I can remember, including the one that brought in a bunch of new vehicles. Battlefield 1942 had around half a dozen free maps released in patches, Battlefield 2 has had 2 or 3 new maps for free as well. TF2 has had two new maps so far, though one was just a CTF version of Well, and a third comes out pretty soon. Can't speak for the Quake series since I don't like those games and don't play them, but if they had no new official content to download then that their fault. And then of course you have hundreds if not thousands of user-created maps free to download, and in UT2004's case in particular many user maps were better than the official ones, and got huge playtime by the community.

vantesaur

@Madeira: Yes, obviously no one wants ridiculously large arcade titles. I mean, how could I even think about questioning the logic behind a 150MB cap that applies to every arcade title - classic ports and new material alike.

Seriously, I didn't think I'd have to clarify my statements; I figured most Kotaku readers would see the blatant mistakes in Microsoft's size restrictions.

But, this has been already addressed by someone much more qualified: [kotaku.com]

NO - I didn't mean get rid of all size limitations.
YES - Its current format is flawed (especially when this problem isn't found on competing networds, like PSN where they don't have that ridiculous rule)!

/Napoleon Dynamite - "Gosh!"

Arttemis

@Tepoz: Tribes 2 hellz yea!

SAKY

Gotta love free stuff, I guess MS is the one who has a problem with giving away free maps. But that's just speculation. Sure, Halo 3 Heroic pack is now free but right out of the gate have been better.

Good on SONY for allowing this and EPIC for making it happen.

SAKY

I loved facing worlds this makes me want to go rent the game again!

BornToFlail

The Quake/Unreal/Half-Life/Tribe series had a huge following back in the day because of the communities built around those series. The community itself release huge amounts of content that kept those communities going. Epic was unique in that it personally fostered it's community in much the same way Bungie does currently with Halo.

However, nothing lasts forever. As another posted already pointed out, game engines were becoming more and more complex to a point where mods became few and far between. Mods no longer became a selling point as they once used to be. Things in the PC gaming world really began to change once the Battlefield series came into the scene and team-based gameplay became the norm (moreso than what Tribes and TFC had).

All the old communities have moved on. Even in QuakeCon you see very little id games being played.

Tepoz

@ErskinPig:
Well, here's the deal, why the direct comparison between PC gaming and console gaming? Historically, each caters to different demographics and sub-cultures and both are designed around different sets of constraints. As such games are usually made and marketed differently due to those differences. (One of the major failings of UTIII on the PC was that it was essentially perceived as a console game.)

Yes, skins/mods/maps were historically free on the PC, but that history doesn't exist for consoles. (Altough recently, the Battlefield series has been successful in releasing pay to play maps/weapons/vehicles on the PC.) Yes, historically PC's have been an open platform with "anything goes" but consoles have not.

As far as your points concerning Valve, nothing is holding Sony from offereing content for free. Sony is a competitor and is not owned by Microsoft. UTIII is exclusive to the PS3 so downloadable content between the two platforms is really a moot point, and UTIII is not even a major seller on the PS3.

Also, the market pays what the market wants. Whether you agree or not with for pay maps/mods/weapons/vehicles or not, the general consumer always has the final word in anything.

Tepoz

@Guizzy: The original UT had four free developer map packs, and I'm pretty sure UT2004 had at least one.

Is it expected that developers will release free content? No. But I'd argue that it's expected that if developers release content, it's free.

ATimson

Wow, That brings back some sweet, sweet memories (even if i still do have UT instaled, I just dont have the time to play it).

Also brings dizzyness, as I remember playing UT as one of my fist 3D OpenGl accelerated games with my all mighty and powerfull Power VR card. There a trick to it, Mark. Look at the ground youre stepping on. Astronauts in space also need a fix point of reference in order to avoid such dizziness and desorientation.

Still, hard to fault the beauty of Face, back then and still looking good by todays standards. Im purposly tryign to forget what a nightmare it is to defende the flag on it, tough...

Shiryu

@Madeira: Additionally, you could take that 'We're not worthy' logic further. What if we're suddenly expected to pay for games on, for example, a level by level basis? Your argument that they took the time and expense to make the game and that we have no right to make any demands on them still applies. But, to anyone with common sense, it clearly doesn't. We do have a right to expect a level of value that we've, well, come to expect! :P

ErskinPig

I'm glad Epic did this. I thought they were gonna go down the route of offering the best mods for download on the PSN (which they should still do for the people who don't know how to download mods themselves).

Barbara

There's also the fact that making maps back then was much less involved than in recent games. Nowadays, you need to model and texture each and every item in the map. Maps for Starcraft/Warcraft were pretty much just a matrix of a few predefined tiles.

Guizzy

@Madeira: We have every right to demand *value* at least, and yes, I feel that if something has always been free before MS have no right to suddenly decide "Actually, you've had it too good for too long. We think you should start paying for this now, and as we have control, you will". I can see where you're coming from, and it's an admirable point of view, but again I think most of the time the actual developers would be happy to give their stuff away for free. I don't really give a fuck what the publishers think about the issue and I certainly feel no sense of moral obligation to reward *them*. Regardless, that whole angle falls apart when it becomes apparent that it's ultimately the console owners that decide and benefit the most from the trivial charge culture.

If nothing else, the fact that both Valve and Epic want to allow mods and maps for free on the 360, but MS is (apparently) not letting them is abhorent. I'm sure everyone can agree on that.

[kotaku.com]

[kotaku.com]

[kotaku.com]

ErskinPig

@ATimson: Right; so 2 games out of the biggest PC games of all time?

Does that make it something that was expected of developers? No, it does not.

Guizzy

Facing Worlds!!!
FTW!

ShockTerminal

@ErskinPig: I did not chose my examples that much; those are probably the highest profile PC games of an era in which PC was still king in multiplayer games. Actually

Starcraft, Diablo 1 and 2 were definitively online games in design, yet they didn't have free content.

You can add Half-Life to that if want, it still applies: Counter-Strike was a user-made mod before Valve bought it. They couldn't simply yank it shut and make it payware, since it was already free when they bought it. They still tried, though, by selling it retail, adding in-game ads...

And UT. Where, pray tell, are the original UT's free developer map packs?

Guizzy

@ErskinPig: A part of me agrees with you, yet still that reads to me as the typical, immature false sense of entitlement that people seem to have these days. You have to pay to play. Having these expensive games on these expensive consoles is a luxury- you're not entitled to anything for free. People work hard to make a living. They have every right to charge for it. You don't have to buy it.

If they charge for it, I'll gladly pay for map packs and other DLC- it extends the enjoyment I get out of a title and it supports the game creators. If it's free, that's great. But personally I don't feel comfortable with begrudging people that charge for their hard work and feeling entitled to own it for free.

Madeira

I don't own the game but I've been waiting for some UT hater to post:

"Is this the patch that makes the game fun?"

:)

henhowc

@Guizzy: Starcraft and Warcraft III had lots of free map support from Blizzard in the form of their Map of the Week program.

ATimson

Is said alien going to wear a hat and carry a cane singing "Hello my baby, hello my darling..."

ceilingfanboy

@Erwin: I don't object to charging for substantial (expansion-pack level) content, but then NO DLC UNLESS IT'S FREE OR SUBSTANTIAL doesn't have the same ring to it. :P

Certainly there is no ambiguity as far as map packs are concenred - they should be free, period.

ErskinPig

[I hate my grammar and wording for this post, but I don't have time to edit.]
@ErskinPig: I don't think MS are solely to blame (everybody likes money) and I don't think we're going to be making microtransactions to get air for the ball in Madden anytime soon, but I see why you would want to see things free. It's a great way to show appreciation for the consumer and extends the life of the game. Unfortunately, larger downloads (see: Oblivion) will almost always be charged for while smaller ones are thankfully being more commonly free. Maybe if everyone writes a letter to their state's publisher...

Erwin

Facing worlds is the greatest map ever! Remember me and my friend taking turns on that map, taking the sniper and slaughtering the other team.

Spiderbait

@ErskinPig: ^on consoles*

ErskinPig

@ErskinPig: I must retort. Heat.net and MPlayer.com were around before and were much better services than the MSN Gaming Zone.

Papa Midnight

@Phlycheez: Same here. Greatest Map in the entire game.

Now tell me DM-Morpheus is in there and we're all set.

Double bonus points for CTF-4Faces

Papa Midnight

@NecronomiconUK: Not my childhood, but they'd sure love a piece of my ass now.

Your comment is barely worth responding to, but yes: MS were first company to offer serious online gaming. MS insist on charging for map packs that have always been free in the past. MS created the climate and culture for abuse. MS are indeed to blame for starting it all. I wasn't suggesting that they're now the only ones that abuse the system, however, but that was obvious to anyone with a brain.

ErskinPig

Facing Worlds was the first map I ever played on the original UT. It's still one of my favorites.

Phlycheez

This was my favorite map back on UT and UT2004, and now, after a fresh reinstall of XP and Nvidia Coolbits, I think it's time to put UT3 back on and get back in the game.

offthewall234

@ErskinPig: Wow, Microsoft really raped your childhood eh?

Saying that MS are soley to blame for ripping people off for downloadable content is foolish and shortsighted.

NecronomiconUK

Awesome! Free is sweet! :)

GamingNinja

Yes! A reason to go back to UT3!

Zwei Voltage

Yeah, Facing Worlds is a fucking ill map.

Livid

Sweet pie!

Delicious and free! I will go eat then.

TokeYo

@Guizzy: I don't remember that far back as far as online gaming is concerned. That was in the age of dial-up before precedents for online gaming were really set. I see you've chosen your examples very carefully...

Certainly though, Valve and Epic have consistently released free shit and continue to do so....apart from where M$ puts a big roadblock in their path of course. Valve, owning CS and Epic owning UT had two of the three biggest online MP games out there at the turn of the millenium (never played Q3 myself, so not sure about that one) so that alone means they pretty much wrote the precedent book on the subject and makes it an 'established practice'. But then, I'm assuming you knew that already but chose to selectively ignore it in order to argue an anti-consumerist point of view. I find that odd...

@Erwin: Yes, sadly so. This is a controversial issue I'm afraid, not everyone is happy to let M$ rape gaming.

Of course it costs money for them to make it. They employ people who are spending their time making this stuff. That's not the point. The point is, some developers have the sense to see the bigger picture and believe in old fashioned stuff like providing added value and building a reputation as a consumer-friendly company that supports and rewards their customers for buying the core product - the sale of which has already massively offset any trivial costs incurred in making a few extra maps. It may also encourage others that have not yet bought the game to pick up a copy when they see the ongoing support it's receiving and all the bonus stuff that is continually added to it. 'Look after your customer, and your customer will look after you' as the saying goes. So it doesn't need to even be seen as some altruistic act of self-sacrifice because that really doesn't reflect the reality. At the end of the day, if it would seriously harm their business to offer this stuff for free THEY WOULDN'T DO IT! So in a nutshell, costs are a NON-ISSUE.

The Halo Pack, yep I know it's down to M$ - in fact MS are solely to blame for putting the CON in Downloadable Content. It's rarely the developers that are at fault here, it's almost always their publishing overlords. Believe me, I get that.

People who are willing to pay are frankly docile fools with more mony than sense. They will fuel the abuse of the system and will only encourage further butchery of games even right from the design stage. If we're not careful, we'll soon be paying to unlock each stage in a game.

Make no mistake, this is an insidious crisis that will get worse & worse unless it's nipped in the bud soon.

ErskinPig

Now that this game is on Steam, I think I shall pick it up! Free DLC always wins me over. I mean, I paid for the game, and extra's should be considered part of the package, unless it was a flat out expansion. I'd pay for that. Not two or three maps.

MosesMonster

Facing Worlds was great. Used to LAN with a friend and we'd spend hours picking each other off with the sniper rifle.

evslin

wow, omg face ut3 is going to be amazing! I loved face in UT99 and 2k4 but now in ut3 oooo HEADSHOT!

Allcars

OH MY GOD FACING WORLDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Christ that was my entire 9th, 10th, and 11th grades right there XD

Dauragon C. Mikado

Nuttin' said silly more than Facing Worlds w/ isnta-gib and the low gravity rules. I think my frieds and I spent more time laughing with those rules on rather than trying to concentrate on playing.

JoltFiend

I remember playing facing worlds for 6-8 hours a day instagib. So much time spent on that game.

Dathmar

Sweet, Epic pulls out again with free content, but will it make me dust off the sub-par game which is UT3. Maybe if they put Mister Crow back :(

Lokku

Facing Worlds with Chaos Relics and Strangelove Rockets was so much win.

J. Kyle

Facing worlds was so basic, yet so totally awesome.

Great job EPIC!

Now, it may be a day or so before I play it, currently entranced as I am by Ninja Gaiden DS...;)

DaiMacculate

Wait wait wait...what is this....free you speak of?

Tom Clancy's Samuraidino

@ErskinPig: Not this again...
Listen: Because they cost money to produce many developers charge for it, especially for the systems, but not all. And when it came to the Halo pack it was already said that MS sets the prices, not Bungie. If you won't buy downloadable content, fine. I agree with you on that when it comes to most content (I want to slap EA so badly). But maybe people want instant gratification, even if they have to *gasp!* spend money, so who cares? It is cool that Epic did this, though. I would love to see more free stuff.

Erwin

wow.... i really need to pick this up for the old duststation

What was that original UT map on the roofs of buildings with low gravity? i loved that!

NecronomiconUK

Oh man, facing worlds was epic. Good times.

Dukeman330

Facing worlds could tempt me to buy UT3

hamandcheeseUK

facing worlds was amazing
i spent many hours playing that map

ultraViolence

@ErskinPig: Never said it never happened; but it was never an established practice. Where are the free developer add-on map packs for Quake? Doom? Starcraft? Diablo 1 and 2? Quake 1, 2 and 3? Duke Nukem 3D?

Guizzy

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: If you're going to be silly about it, don't forget "big head".

:P

Cool. I'll be trying those this week-end for sure.

Woodwater

@Arttemis: Not so much.

In a way. In a way it's also a good thing. The limit prevents devs releasing the games unecessarily big. Huge XBLA titles would discourage the instant gratification download, and would kill a lot of looks from people who don't have large HDD, or for people that download all of them.

Overall, the limit is good for developers and users as more people will download the games because they don't have to wait long, and they can fit a lot of them on their HDD so people will be more likely to check a game out that maybe they wouldn't if it took longer than a few minutes to download.

The limit might sound like a lame idea for you or me, but I'm sure that's at least a part of the reasoning behind why it is probably a good idea overall. I like how it is now, with MS easing the limit for select cases.

Madeira

Yay.

No, seriously.

MykalBloom

Facing Worlds!!! That was the defacto CTF map back in the day, glad they brought it back

pb00

I miss Facing Worlds ...

And thank you Epic, one of the many reasons why I love PC gaming.

Free developer support!

EnigmaNemesis

My two favorite maps!

Wolfers

God, that map may be the only perfect map out there. So simple, yet so very, very good. I'm sure this will become the most played map in no time.
@SigmundTheSeaMonster: Agreed!

Erwin

I loved being a sniper on this map! I do doubt UTIII will be released on the 360. UTIII has only sold about 367K on the PS3. If UTIII had launched at the same times as the PS3, then it would have sold around the 697K area, given the 360's record of FPS sales compared to the PS3. Now though, there's not really any buzz in the general 360 community for this game, so it may not even reach half that.

Tepoz

AHH!!! I remember facing Facing Worlds! God I loved UT, we couldn't go online with it so we'd just play it in practice and it was fucking awesome!

excel_excel

@bednarz:
broadside? tribes?

LittlestLamshi

thank you kotaku for not posting that picture and making me spend the rest of my work day trying to remember what the hell that map was called.

EPIC, thank you

johnnylineup

Facing worlds! I've fucking missed you. The amount of days I've spent in your loving care. Damn.

cdr

A few more of these and they'll release UT3-2 or UT2008 or something like that on PC, like they did with UT2k4.

Pantsman

FACING WORLDS - FUCK YEAH!

best map ever made for any game!

bednarz

So this'll be up with tonight's PSN update then? Note to self, remember to download.

Archaotic

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: Those were great times.

Tikey

Oh man. Facing Worlds is classic.
Sniper rifle on the roof, and M-M-M-M-M-Monster Kill all day.

half-beast

@Madeira: "there's no limit for DLC." - Which is a good thing!
"The limit is for XBLA games" - Not so much.

Man, I remember my trying out my friend's new trackball- mouse(lol) in this game and trying my hardest to keep the screen pointed somewhere other than the void of space for fear of puking.

Also - Good luck on the alien baby, Mark! Make sure to keep your small pets out of the area for following days.

Arttemis

I'm not finding this anywhere for the PS3... looked in the PS-Store and in the news section of the game :(

mikeeb13

Brilliant. With all the communitymods as well there is a never ending supply of new content. Love UT3 loads atm.

Bearskopff

@Mark Wilson - Right after that alien eats your face off, I'm sure it will hiss, "It LARVAE, bitch, not BABY!"

SaintWaldo

I just finished Assassin's Creed (now with more ass!) and when I look at the tower closest to the front of the shot, my first thought was to seek out the hay bale so that I could swan dive into it after synching up the view point at the top of it. This is why I suck at FPS games. I'm either off to one side, frustrated that I can't climb something, or I'm trying to "trick" off something else ala Tony Hawk, and BOOM! Headshot.

TitillatedOcelot

Oh man, I remember the sniping wars that would happen on Facing Worlds. Good times.

Aethyr: Brawl. Add me.

@Madeira:
Oh, I thought it was for all downloads. I guess it makes sense since Shivering Isles was DLC, and I know that's over 150MB.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

It wasn't in UT3?

Damn I hope this comes on the 360 disc. This maps the best.

Facing Worlds ftw.

flukielukie

Tribes????

LittlestLamshi

Pardon me, did you say free? I must purchase this game.

jackal888

@TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles: The limit is for XBLA games (and even then they've raised it for certain cases), there's no limit for DLC.

Madeira

Dang, I was trying NOT to go out and buy UT3. For one thing, my computer can't handle it just yet.

Pezdispenser

No no no, Mark Wilson, you've got it all wrong! Free map packs provided by developers are a MYTH, as many well-informed commenters here will attest. This just doesn't happen, you see because it costs developers money to make maps and servers and and and...

I salute you Epic, and on this occassion, I salute you too, Sony. Let's turn back the tide and put VALUE back on the agenda.

No DLC unless it's free.

ErskinPig

Ahh free shit. Gotta love it.

CitizenInsane27

facing world, now that's great shooter memories :)

Might have to get UT3 now :D

QC8472

So it's 10 MB above the size limit of XBL, and it's free. Jesus, it's going to be tough when this game comes to the 360. Of course, I'll have a gaming rig by then, so it won't really matter.

TheEngineer: Rocking the Goggles

omg for real :):)
i play these maps from ut since now,i knew they would realese them to ut3 :)
free.

steliosco

Facing Worlds with Instagib Plasma rifles! That was the best!!!

SigmundTheSeaMonster

mod community dead? did i read that somewhere? anyways, i just hosted map mod mania last night and was a blast. had a good turn out, made new friends, won lots of matches. the two maps i wanted were facing worlds and the temple from goldeneye. now i have both in ut3. at ut3mod.com there are over 60 maps, 14 mutators including the stealth area, jet pack and 3rd person cam, 5 new game modes and one new vehicle. all of the maps ive downloaded are top tier fan made maps that are as good if not better than epic's maps.

downpour
throne
necris island
perfect temple from goldeneye
harbor
tokey towers
orbital deconstruction
flatwars
fragpipe2k8 from quake 2
shipment from CoD4

i believe the mod community can flourish from console support. lets be honest...a lot of maps that were fan made in the doom era were crap. sophisticated tools like ue3 editor cuts out a lot of hacks and makes room for people to make serious maps for serious play. i dont want to waste time looking through legions of maps based some clown's penis. downpour is one of the greatest dm/tdm maps i've ever played. the quality of the list of maps in my rotation is as good as many of the best retail releases. as a matter of fact, i question turok, cod4, halo 3 map packs. ut3 has more content available than all those map packs combined and its free. if ut3 doesn't have a halo3 map for example, it can be made for it as well as weapons, game modes, vehicles. this is why i love this series.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

I've downloaded the maps from the playstation store, but I don't see them anywhere.. Are they only online or something?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I have an american version of the game but downloaded the maps from the dutch ps store? Although I doubt it..

I really wanna play Facing Worlds!
Anyone?

RonB28

Face is back, but it looks like it used to?! Hot damn!

Taco Bell™

Playing ut3 on ps3 is great. Dedicated servers including international,voice chat with bluetooth headsets,the same map-packs as pc version,keyboard and mouse support, most of the mods now coming out are often available for ps3 as well for anyone to download and import any way they please. There is no incentive for me to spend a chunk of dough to upgrade my rig and buy this for pc where i'll be hunched over in front of a monitor. You'd be hard pressed to see a difference between this game on ps3 with an hdtv set using hdmi output and with the distance of sitting on your couch vs an up to date pc rig. I've been enjoying the hd living room experience far more than my usual pc gaming sessions.

escopr