Despite the fact that Gabe eats babies, I love that he's holding MS's feet to the fire on this.

Amazing-Steve

Fact: No matter how many people say that MS doesn't decide price, the Publisher does, nobody will listen. It's easier and cooler to blame Microsoft for charging you.

Gears Of War: Published by Microsoft, PAID FOR, by microsoft. Halo 3, Published by Microsoft, PAID FOR by microsoft.

PSN, Tekken 5, $20 Tekken 5 online component $20

So far i've gotten 3 Free XBLA games, and 2 Free map packs for Rainbow Six Vegas.

The TF2 maps being free is not MS's decision, nor is it truly Valve's. It's EA's. The folks who brought you paying for cheat codes.

Duscrom

Valve makes me rock hard, I seriously will buy anything they put out now. Over the years they've proven to me that they care about their customers/games and are going to deliver a great experience.

robotplague

@gamadaya: right, but...that's why i named them!
not saying valve's not awesome, but the ps3 hate is beneath them as well.

TheIrishNinja

Every now and then, I think "Why do I still have a PC. Why do I still upgrade? Why do I PC game?"
Then, a article like this comes along and I remember why.
Its because the Developers actually CARE about their games, and make them better, if not completely expand them, and they don't try to nickle and dime you to death.

Its really refreshing after using my Xbox 360 when I come on to my PC, play some Team Fortress 2 and notice theres a new map.
I didn't pay for it. I didn't ask for it. I just was given it.

Anyway, with that said, I'm going to wonder how Microsoft plans to shoot itself in the foot with this one.

toejam316

I love valve with every fragment of my soul, and hate Microsoft for wanting to make money off of fuckin everything.

Saith17

i like there games dont but dont like gabe

UmmmCake

What the? Microsoft make these orange box maps and fixes free period.

D3Anon

If there was one place I would want to work, it would be Valve. One can only hope!

ParadoxControl

This means that they do intend to release them on the consoles! Score! How could I ever have doubted you Valve?

Enimor

@ErskinPig: I looked back at your earlier posts. I understand that the 360 is a closed system and that Microsoft decides what is released through their quality assurance and certification processes. Microsoft themselves though have stated many times that the cost for downloadable content is determined by the publisher and not Microsoft (unless they happen to have published the title in question). As long as a content update passes certification it can be released on XBL for free if the publisher so chooses.

fleet

@skrame: they can take up those bandwidth costs in the 8 bucks a month I pay for their p2p online service.

StratfordX

you mean EVAR?

Ahsayuni

They could get away with it on Gears but I don't think they can for this one since this game is multiplatform and Sony will likely let them be free on PSN so XBL has to compete so it'll probably be free on Live.

Samos42

Valve is not that big of a company tbh, Valve is not able to update Day of Defeat Source (its coming soon, some say this month but i doubt it). Updating TF2 with more maps etc but TF2 gets boring fast, Counter Strike Source is getting moved over to the newest version of the Source Engine which will take time. They also have to work on L4D and some other projects.

Valve are a great company but I will always buy their games on the PC. Valve games will never touch any console I own.

zonetrooper5

Couldnt they just distribute the maps in an auto update?

joemoemino

Good for Valve.

Strangelove

@fleet: See my earlier posts.

ErskinPig

Hey valve, how about you give us a patch to fix the shit connections first? Seriously.

devilgoku

The difference with the Gears maps is that MS published Gears.

I wish I could find Peter Moore's quote stating that, essentially, if it's on another console for free, then it will be on Xbox 360 for free.

Then again, Peter Moore is gone. :(

mind in rewind

I think Microsoft's argument is that the content is being hosted on THEIR servers so they want to make money directly from that content.

NutManIV

Sounds great, Valve you have me for your next game!

Strider-No.9

Mark I am not sure why you make it sound as if Microsoft has anything to do with whether or not the content will be free on the 360. There are several examples of free content updates on the 360 such as a free update for Crackdown, the Plasmid update for Bioshock, the map packs for Lost Planet, so their is no technical issues with providing free content on XBL. I am quite sure that from Microsoft's point of view they are not even concerned about service costs for the downloads as that is what we pay a fee for.

The publisher is responsible for setting the price of downloadable content. In the case of Gears, Microsoft was the publisher and therefore had a say in whether or not Epic would be charging for the map packs. For Valve, EA published the console versions of the game and obviously will have a say in whether or not the content is free. This issue has nothing to do with Microsoft or whether or not they are an evil corporation. If the content costs money, blame EA, and if it is free, don't give Microsoft any credit, they have nothing to do with that decision. The ignorance on this issue is getting a little tiring.

fleet

Valve is definitely the best and/or most loyal dev house still in the industry. One would be hard pressed to find instances where they may have acted without consideration for their customers, any other number of gaming companies. I support them through Steam anytime I can.

crapsh00t

To me that sounded a whole lot like "Valve says 360 owners will never ever get new content."

HurdyGertie

@Archaotic:

The problem with your comment however is that you're accusing Valve of doing things they never did.

I remember specifically that Gabe said that the PS3 was difficult to develop for and then, after all the hard work developing, it had no benefit what so ever in terms of the original project. In terms of this it is a "waste of time", and he is correct.

The highly differing architecture of the Cell processor means that porting the Source engine not only takes a lot of work, but doesn't feedback anything into the original code base due to major differences. Never once did he bash the PS3 like your suggesting.

Valve never planned on a PS3 port when starting Ep2. However, during the development, EA approached Valve to handle the port to the PS3, and Valve agreed. Gabe said himself in an interview he expected it to turn into a good product.

However, it came close to release, and it appeared the PS3 port wasn't shaping up to what they expected. Gabe was in fact wrong on his predictions (which were positive, not negative). Gabe never once stated he was right all along. He simply called the port a waste of time because it didn't live up to his expected quality standard.

As someone before me has said. These people form a company who need to make money. In the end, they have to choose what they think will be of high worth. Sure, ORange Box on 360 will sell, but what will it do development wise? Not much, since any enhancements to the Source engine cannot easily be backported and won't help Valve develop their engine on their primary platform at all, unlike the 360 port which is the same code base.

The grief everyone is giving to Valve is undue. Yes, it was a shoddy port but Valve didn't intend for this and there isn't too much they can do about it, but claiming Gabe hates the PS3 and is an XBox fanboi will achieve nothing and doesn't have much bearing in fact and just shows your lack of understanding of the subject.

RabidZombie

That's actually pretty good. I'm no fan of Valve or their distribution system, but when a high-profile company like that passes on charging for extra game content it can go a long way. Games used to COME WITH bonus content, but it's like now you usually buy 80-90% of a game then "top it off" with several DLC packs and it's getting ridiculous.

Kudos, Valve. You know how to make gobs of money AND how to back off when enough is enough. The latter gets rarer and rarer.

fuchikoma

The free content is a lie...

ichiban1081

@zPhreak: WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? MY GOD the ignorance of commentors on this site drives me nuts.

Jagzthebest

@bluestreak108:
Sextuple core. Doesn't the 360 have 3 duel cores as well? I would really love to know how many PS3/360 games actually use more than 1 core. I'm sure the PS3 does, but I'll bet most 360 games have 2 cores doing pretty much nothing.

gamadaya

@meandering_drivel: *facepalm*

Jagzthebest

Valve is awesome. I'd say Bioware and Valve are the best in my books.

Vecha

@OtherAdam: Actually Archaotic made a very good point about Valve., specifically what Gabe Newell said against the PS3.

Jagzthebest

@drywaller79: what if you're short on money and your computer can't run some of the games. What then?

Ausl0

i don't think epic have struggeled to make the mods free on the 360, i think they've struggled to get them up there in the first place.
their "free" struggle came from the gears of wars maps, which microsoft didn't want to give away because they published/financed the game.

xbulletholes

That stuff, new maps with patchs, are free on the PC.
Why would the console owners have to pay if the original developer don't want to pay? forcing a pay here is violence against customers.

tei

@smitherssocal: No.

j14rk1n

@Madeira: Oh my bad man, heh sorry, I have issues reading into sarcasm on the internet where tone is not available.

spinal77

@spinal77: I was being facetious as a dig at Archaotic... should have laid it on a bit thicker, sorry man.

Madeira

@Madeira:

Ethics and respect? You realize we are talking about corporations and businesses here right? Institutions whose sole goal and responsibility is to make the people that own them money. Valve and Gabe never found that a port would be profitable or worth the man hour investments, and as such made a decision not to make one. Their overlords, another company who wants to make money, disagreed and so Valve washed their hands of it, and went on to work on the other projects they have that would be a better return on investment.

Take off your rose colored glasses and come out into the real world, where its all about cash, stock prices, and return on investment.

If you want to talk art and ethics, go to an art forum or a philosophy forum.

spinal77

Valve wins.

man_in_gauze

It should be free anyways. As a PC gamer as well, I still find it atrocious that I paid 50 bucks for a dedicated gamespy lobby/matchmaking on the console.

I don't see why people are delving so deep into this subject, MSFT and SONY is terrible for charging what Dev's want to give for free.

I mean, the minuscule cost of bandwidth will never replace the outlook and perspective of its respective gamers.

Fyren

I think the main reason developers (note: DEVELOPERS not PUBLISHERS) have hang ups about releasing PC or 360 content to the PS3 is the cost of reworking everything for the new format. Porting from the PC to the 360 is basically changing a value from 0 to 1 in an .ini file and you're good to go.
The PS3's duel core makes you have to re-work practically everything to get it to look/run as well. If that's going to cost around what you stand to make in sales, then you usually decide not to do it.
I'd be curious to see how much of the money from sales of the PS3 port (done by EA) went to Valve and how much stayed with EA.
I own the PC version of Orange Box and couldn't be happier. I haven't made a next gen choice yet, I'm waiting to see if MS gets their hardware stable or PS3 gets a decent library (looking that way).

bluestreak108

@spinal77: You're not getting it, spinal. It's a matter of ethics and respect for their PS3 owning fans. If Valve had any artistic integrity, they wouldn't have allowed EA sully their masterpiece with a flawed port. It's a total disrespect to the platform.

Madeira

I'm so glad I play FPS games on my PC. To pay for maps, skins etc; is totaly ridiculous.

Ixero

@Sparx: First off you are a troll and feeding trolls is generally bad, but... EA made Valve release Orange Box on PS3. That is why Valve said, "Ok, then you do it", and it was handed off to some other team at EA. So there you go, Valve wasn't going to put it on PS3, but EA made them. You can stop hating for hating's sake.

zPhreak

I don't know if this has been asked, but if it ISN'T free content, then how will it turn out for those who don't purchase the content. If I buy it, but my friend doesn't, would we not be able to play?

I'm hoping this is free, as Team Fortress 2 is awesome.

AlienGuy

Valve is the best.

Quasimodo X

Look, this whole issue is pretty simple re: the ps3. You have a room full of software developers that are windows platform programmers who know the DX 9/10 package in and out, and the os the platform runs on, and the tools available to them, and its a simple step to get code written for a windows platform to run on the 360.

To ask a whole development team to go learn a whole new development environment (and an environment that is not nearly as well documented) to produce a port on a piece of hardware that at the time was not doing very well in the market, instead of keeping those trained programmers on projects that could exploit the experience those guys have to produce more profit for the company is insane.

Everyone always seems to forget that these are COMPANIES, trying to make MONEY. IF they make a product thats fun to play, so be it, but they make that product so they can go home and pay their mortgage.

spinal77

I don't think I can say in any new way that Valve = amazing and is definitely one of the greatest dev companies ever. So with that, Dev on men... dev on.

Athest

They will probably strike the same deal that Bungie and Epic did. Pay now, free later.

Dauragon C. Mikado

@fronsacqc: i don''t think price of hosting a few meg is an issue man

nolifedopestar (PSN: noliferuin)

MS has previously stated that they would not charge for DLC if the content was free on a competing platform. Let's hope they make good on that if Sony decides to let it become free on the PS3.

VoodooHack

@Xideo:
Microsoft/Sony pays bandwitch for something that doesn't won't bring more revenue in after the original sale of the game.

fronsacqc

@Rectangle:

They've offered free skins for Motorstorm, thats all I could think of.

graze81

@TheIrishNinja:
Naughty Dog and Insomniac develope exclusively for the PS3 though. It's a lot less expensive than developing for the PS3 and the 360. I still think it would be more profitable if devs made their games multiplat, but then again, I trust Valve. They are awesome at pretty much everything they do, and if they don't like the PS3, they must have a damn good reason.

gamadaya

Do me a favor, Valve?

I know you fixed some bugs yesterday on the 360 version of TF2. It also seems like you're really keen on releasing new content for free, which I think is an amazing thing.

But please, please optimize your net code. How is it that I can play flawless games in CoD4 yet TF2 is one of the laggiest games ever?

fuzzycuffs

...You do care!

Come here, gimme a hug, Valve.
Just a little closer...

Troubadour

@Archaotic: The Orange Box is arguably one of the most awesome triumphs of humankind, and the subpar PS3 version is kind of a black eye for the console. I don't blame you for being upset one bit, I would be too if I was a PS3 fanboy.

But that whole ethics issue thing is transparently disingenuous. I mean, come on.

Madeira

Personally, I don't get how folks look at Valve and say "OMG, they hate the PS3". They had a code base that ran well on both the 360 and Windows, and I think it's been shown overall that porting from PC to 360 or vice versa is fairly easy. However, a port from a PC codebase to the PS3 seems to be a bit more difficult. They had 3 or 4 choices really when it came the PS3:

1. Don't release anything on that platform at all.
2. Hire folks that knew the PS3 well and get them up to speed on your code for the port.
2.5 Get your programmers up to speed on the PS3. Since this would still involve hiring folks who know the PS3, it's kind of the same as 2.
3. Outsource the port.

Now the problem with the above is:
1: Makes no money.
2: Expensive, time consuming, possibly longer time to market.
2.5: Expensive, probably MORE time consuming in terms of man-hours, probably shorter time to market then 2.
3: Hopefully they know the platform and can learn the code base quickly.

They choice #3, and they already had a pre-existing relationship with EA, so guess who did the port? From the comments, it sounds like EA wasn't up to the task. Since EA was ALSO the publisher, I'm guessing they had the final say if it published. I just think all the folks who dislike Valve over the whole Orange Box thing should probably be directing their dislike at EA instead.

With their next title, they are going for option 1, which is probably the right choice for them at this point. If L4D does become popular I just hope they handle the port themselves next time!

NateN

@Sparx:

know better*

Sparx

@Setzer IIDX:

Thats basically what I was getting at, the tech is alright, but MS's design is fucking it up. According to the Kotaku story done on him back in october, that StevenRafael was nice enough to look up and use in a reply to you earlier, Gabe just took one look at the Cell and said it was a bust, or rather something that offers no "long term solutions". Being in the PC business you would think he'd no better since nothing is ever a long term solution with new programs and chips getting released all the time. Not to mention that other companies have begun to utilize said technology and are actually finding good uses for it.

Sparx

just out of interest, would anyone pay for TF2 map packs? i've been playing it more and more recently, but wouldn't ever feel tempted.

nolifedopestar (PSN: noliferuin)

@meandering_drivel: wow, troll much?

on one hand, most of you are right that PS3 owners should be happy to get in on the game(s), but on the other, archaotic has a point about doing something nad doing it right. if he's gonna outsource the port, how much room do you leave yourself to bitch when it comes back sub-par?
sure, some of youse are making the argument that the PS3's lower install base justifies this, but that's backward thinking. The install base is growing, youve got a lot of analysts & reasons telling you this year should largely close the gap, but if devs like valve and capcom wanna keep treating it as a second-stringer, leaving insomniac, naughty dog etc to put out the real quality, i dont think theyve got room to bitch about the current install base.

TheIrishNinja

First lets hope the add the DLC to the console. Then we can worry about $$. Valve provided a working patch by end of December and it was not loaded until late last week. That proofs how MS has control over EVERYTHING.

Purguy

@Sparx: To be fair, the tech itself isn't the problem, it was the production of the tech.

If memory serves, something to do with the heatsink being too close to certain parts, which caused some glue substance to melt and make parts come undone?

That in turn may have been attributed to marketing even. If they kept the 360 a huge box as they did last time, there may have been better cooling and more room for part placement. Of course, aesthetically that thing was god ugly, and they needed a sexy next gen to sell I guess.

But yeah, the hardware itself would work if given proper spacing/cooling. And the Cell IS a bitch to work for thus far. But then again, so is speaking Japanese when you only started a year ago. I'd imagine coding and learning a language are similar.

Setzer IIDX

@Archaotic:

I guess I'll agree with you on this somewhat. Personally I'm never going to play this game anyway so it doesn't really matter to me but its not like they were forced to go multi. If they weren't going to put forth the effort then why even bother? They could've just made it an exclusive and avoided all the hassle. Its clear that Gabe never even gave the PS3 a chance because of his MS connections. Just took one look at the specs and gave up on it saying it would never sell. Yet its funny how that technology is prospering and the other is breaking down left and right because of its design.

Sparx

i love valve's stand on the whole dlc issue. but right now i really wouldn't mind paying a little bit for more tf2 content :P

p3hrmne

Have I somehow missed the truck loads of free DLC on the Playstation Store?

Rectangle

@ErskinPig: do you like it? it is derived from the criticism my literature teacher scribbled upon all my high school essays.
Quite the compliment, if i do say so myself.

meandering_drivel

@Archaotic: Amen. QED- Devil May Cry.

Dunno if it wouldn't have been any better or worse, but I wouldn't have to hear these cracks about downloading.

Setzer IIDX

@meandering_drivel: I see...well, at least your name is appropriate. :S

ErskinPig

@homernoy:
Yeah, you probably haven't seen it, but I basically don't buy games made by EA, Activision, or Ubisoft in general. I disagree with them on a business ethics standpoint, and thus will not give them my money. If I get their games, I buy them used from my store so the companies don't get a cent.

Rock Band is and has been the only exception to this rule, as my love of Harmonix and Boston-area developers outweighs my distrust of EA.

And you're right, my PS3 does just fine without the Orange Box as part of my collection. I just argue the point as an ethics thing.

Archaotic

@ErskinPig: that wit is a concept beyond my capacity for comprehension, and that you even suggest I attempted to be perform this so called 'wit' is an abomination against nature.

how dare you =)

meandering_drivel

The truth of the matter is that Valve will have a hard(er) time releaseing content for free on Microsoft's platform then Sony's. In the same breath I do understand his point about the PS3 being a difficult system to program for, but there is no point in out right bashing the platform either. It all goes on the different business models that the companies are using. Microsoft charges for it's XBL service, which both the Wii and PS3 do not, however due to the amount of time and ease of development for the XBox360, Microsoft's system has quite a few more titles. The bottom line is that when you bash a platform as a developer, you are in esence bitting the hand that feeds. The platform owners have final say if your game ships or not, (it has been this way since the NES and Sega Master System). Gabe bashing Sony might be the reason that EA had to release the game. Or I could be wrong and he really is just an idiot that is biased.

fawrh

Didn't MS say they wont charge for somethign that is free on other platforms? Which is why the Rainbow 6 map packs got given out for free (in the end) once rainbow 6 was out for the playstation?

Rajio

I love Valve. They are one of the few companies that have fantastic games that look great, and scale very well on almost all PC's with a discrete graphics solution.

@Archaotic:
"didn't have to feel dirty by giving EA and Valve my money"

You seem to have more than a few hangups dude.

"the entire package is a giant waste of money in my mind'

Then why in the world would you care what Valve does? I could care less about Valve and the PS3. I won't buy that type of game for a console anyway. You should be happy about all of the great titles coming out for the PS3, I know I am. I was just about to sell mine not long ago! Glad I didn't.

homernoy

I think it's quite simple, really. If PSN will release it for free and MS won't, well then, Valve doesn't have to release it on the 360. I'm sure Microsoft would soften up to that proposition.

Delano_J

@ErskinPig:
Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather the game remain exclusive to the 360 than be released in slipshod, gimped form on PS3 while the 360 gets a "clearly superior" version. All that does is allow fanboy arguments like this to persist in the first place.

Developers should either make multiplatform games perfectly equal, or play to each console's explicit strengths and deliver similar, but different efforts tailored to each console. Anything less than that is laziness and the ports are worthless.

Archaotic

@meandering_drivel: I sense you are trying to be witty, but your post is incoherent. What point are you trying to make?

ErskinPig

FYI:

When Vegas released for the PS3 with the additional content 360 owners had to pay for, MS refunded the points IIRC. I'm pretty sure they have(had?) an unwritten policy that if the content is free elsewhere (ie on other consoles - don't think PC applies) they won't charge for it.

While I do agree that I see a lot more free stuff on the PSN compared to the 360 I don't think MS is that stupid. I do wish they would let developers release free shit if they want to. I'm sure they make enough cash off all of Sega and EA's DLC shenanigans already.

darkandlong

@Mark Wilson:

Mark, thanks for checking up on that!

Rectangle

@meandering_drivel:
No, the problem is that Valve specifically has a long history with Microsoft, Newell himself having been a shareholder for years and involved in creating DirectX. They're either too lazy, or more likely just stubborn, to work on a programming architecture that doesn't run on DX, their bread and butter, which is why they outsourced the game to EA in the first place.

And I have all three consoles, note. I just use my 360 only for specific exclusives like Dead Rising and Lost Odyssey. I always buy multiplatform games on PS3 for stability reasons, so my console won't die mid-playthrough, and because honestly I'm just more comfortable with the Dual Shock controller.

As for the maps themselves so I'm not totally off-topic...I figure they'll probably end up free in the long run. Microsoft's not stupid enough to charge for content people are likely going to get for free on the PSN. However, if we're all wrong and BOTH consoles end up charging for the DLC maps, which is also a possibility, I wouldn't be that surprised either.

Archaotic

Magnetic ftw! All melee ctf!

Pezdispenser

@Archaotic: At least they made a PS3 version. They could easily have snubbed it altogether. How is it anymore offensive than a game being 360 exclusive? Gabe isn't the sort of person to talk smack unless there's a good reason for it.

ErskinPig

@ErskinPig: microsoft charges for desktops... =) i mean... unbelievable :)

meandering_drivel

@Kyle81: But it is up to MS to decide. They control the 360, XBL and everything that goes through it. This sort of crap never happens on the PC (except you could say the booster packs in BF2 are getting close). MS have allowed this culture to develop on their system where we're expected to pay for the most trivial of things.

Make no mistake, they ARE to blame.

ErskinPig

@Archaotic:

It's not valve's fault you bought a ps3. If the ps3 was packing a better video card instead of a blu ray player, the graphics would be vastly superior to the 360 and no developer would complain about making products for the console.

meandering_drivel

Seriously why cant more developers take valves standpoint, that is what gaming is all about. I know for sure
I;ll be purchasing more valve products in the future

buzzcannon

@OtherAdam:
Well, I run a Mac laptop. I could play it on there if I really wanted to, but eh. My roommate has Portal, so I played it on his machine and didn't have to feel dirty by giving EA and Valve my money. I wouldn't have played HL2 (never liked it, even when it first launched) or TF2 (not really an "online multiplayer" kind of guy) anyways, so the entire package is a giant waste of money in my mind.

As for the fat comment, ah well. I thought it'd get a chuckle. Not every joke is gold.

@bluestreak108:
Then he shouldn't have ported the game in the first place. That's the problem I have with it. If the game was a 360 exclusive, alright, fine. He wanted to work on the system he owns stock in. Big deal. But to make a PS3 version and not even try is disrespectful to Valve's PS3-owning fans and a waste of everyone's time and money. I wouldn't have bought it either way unless Portal was a standalone PSN downloadable, but still. This is an ethics issue, not a fanboy issue.

Archaotic

@Rectangle: We're actually checking on EA's jurisdiction with Valve on the topic.

Mark Wilson

Good luck getting free downloads past Microsoft LOLOLOLOLZZZ!

Indrajit

What an incredibly genorous company! Plus hopefully this will attract more people back to TF2!

CrazyBlue

@Archaotic: AHAHAHAHA He's FAT!!!

Let him hate on PS3. Who cares?
They've got one of the highest rated 360 and PC titles on the market that gets almost nothing but glowing reviews. If he wants to ignore a hard to develop for platform with a low install base, let him.

bluestreak108

MS wouldnot let Bungie do it, I doubt they'll let Valve do it. Should it be free? Yup. Will it be free? No sirie bob. And yes, we all hate it.

Black_Ops_19

@Collapse The Control: That came with the PS3 version of the game on disc, they never got actual DLC. It was for purchase DLC on Live till the Ps3 version came with it for free. Also that wasn't microsoft's call, it was ubisoft who said that they would give content for free if another console got it for free.

Ps3 oblivion came with knights of the nine for free but you still had to buy it afterwards on 360. It's not up to MS to decide so it's company specific.

Kyle81

Valve is the greatest American developer around, I swear to God. Let's hope Microsoft allows the maps to be free on the 360 version. If they don't, I'd be willing to pay for the maps, though.

Adrock4

@Collapse The Control: Not necessarily (ie Online Multiplayer, Unreal 3)

Setzer IIDX

Valve is undoubtedly a great company, but when MS has the finally say on whether the maps will be free or not, why wouldn't Valve say they wanted to offer free DLC.

rkr215

@Archaotic:

You could buy it for PC you know. Your rant just made it apparent you are a PS3 fanboy. The comment about Gabe was totally unnecessary.

OtherAdam

I know that Valve spent the money developing the maps, but doesn't Microsoft carry some of the cost when they offer it for download? It's on their servers, right? And they certify it (even though that's a joke in and of itself sometimes).

Certainly it would be good PR for them (and possibly good business), but it's also good business to offer it at a reasonable price. Say, a buck or two to cover their costs. Not $5 or $10.

skrame

If it's free on PSN it'll be free on XBL (ie. Rainbow Six Vegas)

Collapse The Control

My top 3 companies that really, truly give back to this industry…

Valve
Incognito
Epic

-EDGE-

<3 Valve, hopefully SONY & MS will play ball and everyone will get the content free of charge.

BNinjaC

what some people still care about the fans/consumers.....I LOVE YOU VALVE!!!!
*runs to paint half life logo on the hood of car*

_Ted_

@fyre: Haha. I like how you put that. Classy and to the point, without rubbing it in the face of us Xboxers. As a console-only gamer, I'm normally sick of hearing these types of remarks, but you said it right.

skrame

@September:
And this is why I never buy anything made by Valve. People are allowed to dislike game companies. Hell, my dislike of Microsoft as a corporation is no secret. But when you are making a game for a platform, you don't openly bash said platform, deliver a low-quality port job you had no input in, and then say "SEE, I WAS RIGHT!" It's disrespectful to the platform, the customers, and your own product to do so.

The way I see it, multi-console developers should leave their personal biases at home when they come into work. Or in Newell's case, they should leave them at the buffet table.

Archaotic

@Rectangle :

Why doesn't the article mention EA as the potential culprit, here? Has EA ever released free downloadable content for their games?

Microsoft has definitely released free downloadable content.

How dare you bring facts into a potential fanboy spat.

hungry_for_worms

Cool, TheIrishCowboy also Wants Team Fortress 2 Maps Free On Consoles.

@Setzer IIDX: doesnt make it right *sniff*

TheIrishNinja

Why doesn't the article mention EA as the potential culprit, here? Has EA ever released free downloadable content for their games?

Microsoft has definitely released free downloadable content.

Rectangle

I never really felt like the xbox brand negated the microsoft evil
In fact after my xbox red ringed and I lost all downloaded content I felt pretty much shat on.
And god knows what half of the xbox owners are gonna do when that 3 year warrenty runs out.

Uzilover

@September: Oh, no apologies necessary. It was just news to me that he hated PS3. Or even who he is. This is something I haven't been following much at all, it was the free DLC that got my interest.

@smitherssocal: To be fair, EVERYONE but the most loyal of fanboys (and yes, I am one of them) bashed the PS3 at some point in time.

Setzer IIDX

Id hasn't put anything out close to Valve level since Valve has existed.

campbullard

Couldn't they pull a halo and make it free...eventually?

bassgoonist

Oh, Valve. Why are you so amazing?

Atsumi

Yup I passed on orange for ps3 as well and would really need to see a GTAIV type title from them before I buy.

wisconsinista

M$ will let Valve give it away, then they'll go behind our backs and charge our CC for it anyways. Then out of spite for Valve's audacity, M$ will remote RROD all of Valve's custom case 360s, have them send them in for repair then toss their cases in a vat of acid. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Madeira

Microsoft, don't be chodes.

KindaGamey

I sure as hell won't be paying for these maps if they were meant to be free. Microsoft better make good on Valve's wishes. To me, the 6 maps offered in Team Fortress 2 get old quick.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

Gabe can go eat another pizza for all I care. Valve did nothing but bash the PS3 prior to the Orange Box's release. As a result I passed on the Orange Box. As good as Valve is alledged to be, they are the poor mans ID Software.

smitherssocal

Valve has always been awesome like this. Hell, the way they spoiled us with Half Life 1 content may very well be why I think DLC is one of the most wretched ways of making money on the game market today.

The Amazing Exploding-Man

@Setzer IIDX:

Sorry, that statement was stronger than I meant it to be. Gabe Newell, however, does obviously dislike the PS3. Heck, the Orange Box was outsourced to EA and didn't fare well at all when it hit retail. Yeah, the snags were bearable, but the Xbox 360 was more polished and done inhouse. This alone doesn't mean that Valve dislikes PS3, but it's pretty displeasing. I think Gabe has said numerous times how PS3 is a horrendous system to code for in comparison to the 360, but I don't think that should deter a prominent company like Valve from shunting away PS3 enthusiasts. I'm not a PS3 fanboy--heck I don't even have any of the next-gen systems and I find them all equally appealing--but it's obvious that Valve/Gabe isn't too keen about the PS3. Have you seen that Left4Dead interview with Gabe that was posted recently? He flat out says that they're focusing more on the 360 development (in terms of consoles) for Left4Dead and laying off PS3 development for later... whatever that means.

September

"Given that Epic is struggling to keep mods free on the 360, we're assuming that Valve is in the midst of the same situation."

it would be EA's call if the DLC is free or not isnce EA is the PUBLISHER kinda like how MS is the publisher for Gears.

its up to the publisher to charge for DLC. So the decision is with EA in this case and not MS. MS also has a policy that content thats free on multiplatform games on other servies will be free on XBL.

hungry_for_worms

This is just stupid. If Valve wants to give it out for free, let them give it out for free. It's not like that many people are playing TF2 on 360. The game's biggest flaw was that it only had 5 maps to begin with. Giving it a couple extra doesn't even bring it up to Shadowrun territory.

It's not like it's going to hurt sales of Halo map packs or anything. MS already ensured that by overcharging for them.

skullivan

I think it could happen on PSN. I recall Idol Minds figured out the way to offer free content on PSN for PAIN. They said it was a problem but it is possible. I have never heard of free expansions on Xbox Live.

jackal888

If only more developers took this stance, rather than trying to make a quick buck by selling everyone overpriced DLC. The way they are looking at this is completely right, it's an investment in their next product and a way to build some loyalty with their customers.

It also avoids the problem that occurs when DLC is sold for an online game (ie: everyone can't play together, lowering the value of the DLC for people who bought it, and lowering the value of the game for people who didn't buy the DLC).

Tomeeboy

A round of drinks for Valve. That's awesome news. And it would work, because a move like this would make me far more likely to pick up another Valve game knowing they'd support it in this fashion.

TearsandScreams

@Setzer IIDX: How so? Because Kotaku says so.

[kotaku.com]

.. Can I answer a "how so" with a because? It feels wrong in this case... I need to get some sleep.

StevenRafael

Thats a very smart business sense. I love how company's are thinking more of how a product reflects on the image of the company as a whole and are not just pumping out games for cash. Blizzard has said this too, that they have scraped projects because they dont live up to a title that deserves to have Blizzards name on it. Not only are you not only going to have a fan base thats loyal to your company as a whole, not just a specific series, but when people buy a game from your company they are automatically going to know its of the highest quality. Kudos Valve... it will be interesting to see what happens with Sony and Microsoft.

IIGrayFoxII

If the content is free then doesn't everyone win in the end?The developer gains respect,the consoles look more appealing and the player gets free stuff.

Why would you try and stop that?

Xideo

I just got the Orange box(PC version) recently. Well worth the buy. If you haven't bought yet, there's something wrong with you.

drywaller79

So does this mean we might see more free DLC in the future?

Zeroriot

Since EA was involved on the PS3 side don't expect any freebies there either.

liquid_kore

Valve defintely needs to do a better job for the PS3 if they want to make some money. PS3 is no longer the stepchild so they better recognize.

nxp3

"Microsoft will reaffirm the evil corporation stereotype that the Xbox brand has done so much to negate"

It's done fuck all to negate that stereotype.

ErskinPig

Kudos to them! Throwing gamers a bone and not sucumming to the MS way of charging for anything and everything

Lokku

@September: Guhhh? How so? I might have missed something, I'm genuinely curious.

@TomSkylark: And how.

Smart move. Great PR. I like these guys, I'm gonna go out and buy Orange Box after work today just because of this press release.

Setzer IIDX

"Microsoft will reaffirm the evil corporation stereotype that the Xbox brand has done so much to negate"

i thought it had reinforced it, unless i've been missing something.

nolifedopestar (PSN: noliferuin)

For now, sounds like yet another timed freebie; pay to play now or wait a few months and get it for free.

EldonTLH

Valve ftw.

To be honest, I get really fucked off by all the stupid charges M$ infuse into XBL. They're really taking the piss.

ErskinPig

Obligatory comment stating that the PC version has lots of amazing free custom maps.

fyre

Valve is awesome but their hate for PS3 is so fucking apparent.

September

its a shame that valve hate the PS3 then…

Accordion

Valve=Epic win.

Hollowcow

Valve is the classiest dev team ever.

TomSkylark

Valve is the greatest developer ever and I love them.

gamadaya

Awwww Gabe, your good people.

Spenze

valve is my favorite company ever.

hass

ok, which is it, MS says the developers are the ones that make up the pricing structure, if any, but then the developers always say that they don't have full say, which would mean the developers aren't the only ones that have a say in the pricing (if any)???????? Just stop lying MS and get your act together!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

freespeech

Its just a PR stunt idiots MS will make them charge EA will make them charge Valve gets credit for trying from the dumb people.

Volomon

Hey! people don't respect nice guys.
Evil Coperation it is!

Bill Gates
"I decide who's wearing the pants in this relationship!"

SandsOfTime

@Duscrom: Unfortunately I think you are right.

fleet