@Tubatic: @Arttemis: Basically what I was trying to say is...

If WH:O is a designed to be a completely different game than WoW, and there's a WoW expansion coming out around the same time anyway, how are they too "similar"?

(Note: My goal isn't to advocate either game, just wanted to bring those points up.)

Arttemis

I say keep it in the oven as long as humanly possible, the game is only going to get better in time.

Asspigeon

@Tubatic: I was only pointing out that characters and much of the previous content do become, at least partly, obsolete with expansions. Of course expansions only require a portion of the effort to reach the new level cap, but the work done before that point is, for the most part, made worthless (look at the rep from Azeroth's factions and level 60 gear in WoW).
This is more true for MMOs due to the fact that the entire game revolves around the improvement of a single character via many months of effort. These games are designed to be endless, not linear (like "everygame you ever played").

The expansions are there to provide a similar amount of *new* obstacles to overcome, and both new and old characters are put on a relatively even level for the time being - the beginning.
Obviously I'm not saying an expansion in an entirely new game, but I think it's clear that they both represent a large amount of continuous gameplay.
Also, I never said that expansions and new level caps were bad or "the worst thing in the world."

-------

My comment was replying to someone stating that the game itself would be too similar to WoW to merit a switch.
Both represent long amounts of gameplay, but with an expansion representing so much new gameplay and superseding previous efforts, familiarity and achievements on one side become less relevant.
(Eg: Your accomplishments of maxing rep across all the factions isn't exactly a reason to stay when it's made irrelevant by a new set for level 70-80.)
Furthermore, with WH:O revolving around a completely different gameplay element, RVR, it makes me wonder about what the person to whom I was replying was trying to say...

So I wonder:
*How is a completely different end-game paradigm (WH:O) so similar to an expansion (WoW) that it dismisses the potential for a switch?
*It seems like the complete opposite to me - a reason to switch regardless of when WoW's expansions are released.

Arttemis

There must be a Open Beta, or nerds around the world will revolt.

I already feel the disturvance in the force, as millions of nerds reeschedule his life plans around Age of Conan and Warhammer release dates.

Sight..
Is god new that have financial power to wait to make a polised release.

tei

From looking at the Beta, they absolutely need more time. I still think the game will be a very niche title, though.

darthmole12

I've got to totally reconfigure my VACATION NOW. balls.I was looking so forward to a poolside grind this June.

sh0tgunn0strils

My computer will be too weak to run something like this - as will my life.

sir_carrot

Considering how the game plays, it wouldn't be a bad deal to scrap it and make something new from scratch. :p

bakakensai

@Arttemis: Going to Warhammer is more akin to starting over at 1 in an 80 cap game. clean slate, no history.

And really, getting 10 more levels of being not the top level isn't the worst thing in the world. Its like saying you wasted your time on everygame you ever played when you finally get to play the newest game out there.

Tubatic

MMOs are the only game where constant delays are expected and, in some cases, welcomed.

GuiltyDragon

Turning the Grim World of Perilous Adventure into a politically correct family-friendly game turned me off WarHammer: Age of Reckoning ages ago.

It just isn't WarHammer Fantasy without ratmen (Skaven) and semi-chitinous naked one-breasted hermaphrodites with crab claws (Slaanesh pervs).

Koztah

Good news I guess.. have a buddy in Beta that's not at all impressed. Here's hoping Age of Conan can hold on to it's May release.. WoW is dead to me and I need something for those rainy Sundays during the summer.

Abdar

Since I dropped wow I've been waiting for another mmo to fill the gap (although really it's a gap that's probably better unfilled). I was interested in this back when it was originally being hyped up but now it's going to take a lot of convincing to make me care about it.

LX

Whatever they need to make a great game!

asphix20

It has to be a good game first, before it can be anything else like an MMO or a good license.

Asbestos_Underwear

Warhammer 40k is pretty deep.

mandarin

Starcraft & Warcraft came from Warhammer. I love Starcraft & Warcraft and they have differentiated themselves enough now to obviously be different fantasy universes but there is no doubt that Blizzard copied Warhammer & Warhammer 40K.

sinimax

At this point, the only thing that could possibly kill World of Warcraft is World of Starcraft.

I'm excited for WH, but I know for certain that I will play for a month or two before returning to my dark mistress, my foul opiate, my original lord and master, the dense, overpopulated plane of Azeroth.

Machete_Bear

WAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

mandarin

@KirbyMorph: While I agree that everyone ripped of Tolkien, I wouldn't say Blizzard really changed all that much in either WarCraft or StarCraft from Warhammer Fantasy or 40k. Sure they have grown their universe to an extent that implies a vast difference, but the roots of both Blizzad's successful franchises are steeped in the heady broth of WARHAMMER.

And there were lawsuits ... way back when. Mostly related to WarCraft and WarCraft 2.

Randroid

@KirbyMorph: As one example, read this and stop spouting crap: [en.wikipedia.org]

Lemming

@zsavior: "why give up a character I know and like to start all over in a world that seems to be less and less different everyday."

Isn't that basically what people do when they get a WoW expansion? Your character's accomplishments don't mean much when you're 10 levels under the new cap.. same with faction and items.

I also think you're forgetting that this game is designed around RvR, and not weekly repeated dungeons and a splash of simulated sparring sessions with gear rewards that defy balance.

Arttemis

I've been signed up for the beta since summer of 2007 and still no word yet. :(

Fennrisulfr

I would be surprised to see WAR go head to head with the Lich King expansion. The WAR dev team may havea lot of faith in their game ... but I don't know if I would go up against the behemoth that is a WoW expansion based on that particular bit of story.

I predict Christmas or even early 2009.

Randroid

Dang, I was hoping I would finally be able to play this Summer. But alas doesn't seem to be. I guess if they need more time to test, tweak, build, and make things more playable you won't hear a complaint from me.

StealthBlue

Everybody stole something from somebody else. Fact of life.

evslin

@Randomcitizenx: Leave room for an expansion, yeah? Skaven vs Lizardmen would be a dream come true expansion for me I reckon. I wouldn't know where to turn.

And the game still needs some graphics work, IMO so I welcome the delay. One of the latest screenshots showed a 'war hydra' boss and it looked like papercraft.

Lemming

I want this game to succeed to keep WoW on there toes, because if WoW is not competing with anyone. Then the consumers would lose out.

I just hope they release there game no where near the Lich King Expansion that would kill them.

Schoolimangooli

I hate Warhammer fans and their retarded "WoW stole everything from da Warhammerz". Guess what, Warhammer stole everything from fuckign Lord of the Rings and every other fantasy based thing that came before it. It's not original. It's not unique. It's a derivative piece of fantasy. Blizzard has more than differentiated Warcraft from Warhammer. Otherwise, we'd have lawsuits. Simple as that. Get off your high horses and realize just because Warhammer doesn't rip off Warcraft doesn't mean it isn't still just one big rip off of everything else itself.

As for the actual game, I want to completely ignore it's existence because I'll probably end up unemployed and possibly dead in some internet cafe from playing it for a week straight if it's ever released.

KirbyMorph

Just the hope of playing Skaven one day would be enough to make me leave WoW if I hadn't left it already. To not have them as a playable Chaos race is very VERY disappointing.

Randomcitizenx

If they do what they say the will, this may be the first mmo I' ll waste my time with.. Especially excited about collision and PvP quests(Kill 10 dwarf characters.!! "already done boss... want me to slay 100 humans too?")

lapiz

Really they killed their own momentum, it is not that I don't mind experiencing another MMO, I love fantasy. It is not that I don't think it will be different and maybe a little fun. The problem lies in the fact that I see no real reason to leave WOW for warhammer.

I am pretty sure that is what Blizz is counting on also, but the fact remains the longer Warhammer takes the more blizz adds and warhammer just seems less and less appealing, why give up a character I know and like to start all over in a world that seems to be less and less different everyday.

Make no doubt about it this is the consumers they want that wow market eager to be in several worlds. But at this point it seems they are depending on hype and hate of wow rather than substance of an actual game.

zsavior

I applied for the beta and still haven't heard anything. Probably won't. I'm not 1337.

schizogony

No surprise here, there still only on the 2nd of 3 RvR beta's not counting the other stuff that needs to be tested. Well if it needs work, it needs work better that then an Tabula Rasa, Annarchy Online or Hellgate.

bloodyroarxx

More like World of Warhammer. Online. Craft.

But seriously I am interested in this.

Tetelestia

I was just reading about the collector's edition of this at work yesterday, limited to 60,000. It 's actually pretty sweet. 2 hardcover books and lots of in game extra stuff.

Grumps

@TehMuff1nM4n: Ok, you might already know this, but Warhammer IP came before WoW. So while yes you are correct that they both have it, technically its "WoW has orcs and stuff just like Warhammer." This is just an FYI.

Looks like they added to their site too.

SpeakSoftly

MMO's released during the summer never do well, fall release is the best time for MMOs, most come out between september and novemeber so this is a good move. I think that EA-Mythic is doing a fine job, the final product will be excellent.

Bon5ai

So, Wrath of the Lich King in August? :p

raptorsrevenge

I can only imagine the 10 year olds:
"lol, warhammer is just a copy of warcraft!"

uranutan

I think this is a smart idea, I mean if you want to be competing with the MMO giant known as WoW, then you have to make sure your MMO is the best. Not to mention that Warhammer has orcs and stuff just like WoW.

TehMuff1nM4n

@deathbunny: enlightening.

Still looking forward to this, but WOTLK is looking better with each morsel of nerdom they release about it. Going back to traditional WC instead of space ship fantasy. But, WAR is still looking like it will be the only MMO to really make a dent in WoW IMO.

Chewbenator

Maybe Tolkien ripped the "hobbits" from the Korrigans:

[en.wikipedia.org]
[www.sacred-texts.com]

Images of Korrigans:
[www.tangaroa.es]
[www.gnomeland.net]

Interesting enough, the korrigans, or Lamiak (as are called here in Spain).

Heres a list:
google cache of a good list of monster with origin

Seems as Grimm Brothers did wih his tales, Tolkien inspired himself from other stuff. Maybe his half the fun. I guest he could have created something from scratch, but reusing stuff add a cultural layer to it. People has mythos and stuff about Korrigans, Karrigans, Kerrigans, Lamias, Lamiacks, etc.

tei

It's not the point that Warcraft may or may not have ripped off Warhammer. It's the fact that after playing WoW for 5 years people are still willing to play a orc/elf/human mmo.

Damn creativity, it's overrated anyways.

ostartero

Gamesworkshop, Tolkien, and Blizzard: the hating, a brief history.

In the dawn of the modern era, a man with an obsessive compulsive disorder and nightmares about furry beachballs ([www.ummagurau.com] - note, may not be nearly as furry as I remember) wrote endlessly, until he passed out, about imaginary words, crappy poetry, and the sense of entitlement that every living creature has. Somehow this became conflated with WWII and, ultimately, Smaug the dragon became the ultimate metaphor for sexuality and shame (note, this is a lie). People ran into the streets, and threw their leather caps into the air, and held keys, boomerangs, and maps above their heards while triumphant music played (note, more lies).

Shortly after this, Gary Gyax, while attempting to discover the ancient roots of witchcraft, so that he might sieze the reigns of power which the old gods offer to any who are brave and foolish enough to read *all* the way through the Silmarillion (note, this is misleading), discovered a horrifying spell which could damn funloving, imaginative kids, ages 8 to 80! Like *most* tools of the devil, beezlebub, it was fun for the whole family, and nearly all english speaking souls were damned, if not for the timely intervention of Jack Chic, there would surely be no pristine souls left whatsoever (note, while not an outright lie, this could, and should, be considered complete bullshit).

During the early years of his attempts to dominate youth through dice and images of fairies dusting rainbows with unicorn spirits, many pretenders to his ebony throne appeared, attempting to exploit the market with various charms, sigils, glyphs, and, of course, manticores (note, almost entirely not unlike bullshit). Among, or, on particularly dark and evil days, amongst these contenders for the power to warp young minds, was the Warhammer franchise, which posited a kind of universe where tolkien's vivid characters each had 3 wounds, and a high weapon skill. When it was discovered that relatively inexpensive pieces of mutated lead and tin could be sold for 1 (one) branigallion dollars to middle aged men with the minds of children, and even, occasionally, an actual youth, the Gamesworkshop was born. From among the barrows and greasy posters of sorceresses petting gigantic snakes issued forth a gradually more refined and nuanced setting, thanks, in large part, to the off-beat style and epic scale of John Blanche's work (note, tiny fragment of truth, admist a sea of falsehood). As gamesworkshop grew, its lust for souls did as well, and employing techniques which would later be used by Scientology and crack dealers to encourage their clients to pony up the dough, they began a reign of terror over the disposable income of young men and women, by which I mean... young men.

As their malevolent eye peered down from their obsidian tower, which was totally original, and not based on anything else you've ever heard of before, they noticed teh compyootarz were competing with their attempts to destroy the childhood economy with their so called 'arcades', 'home consoles', and 'pcs' (note, dramatized to the point of dishonesty). They wanted a piece of that, if you know what I'm sayin, and I think you do, but feared that, should they transfer the best points of their board games to the computer, the urge to actually purchase the board game would wane. As a result, any computer games that actually *did* come out under their auspices, were forever cursed by the bloody tears of the mad witch, Llorona, who drowned her children (note, folksey, fun, and a lie). That is... UNTIL BLIZZARD!

Like a shining white knight, Blizzard was developing the game that became Warcraft for these filthy swine, and, at the last moment, had the project cancelled. Rather than take their lives in the honorable Gamesworkshop way, with a spoon, or a pasta thing that has those prongs on it, they decided to thinly alter superficial aspects of the setting and release the game anyway. As it turned out, it was 1.48 hoots, which is typically rounded up. Blizzard then went on to dominate the universe, largely by looking at whatever Gamesworkshop happened to be doing at the time, and then, as an act of continuing revenge, improve it, and release it in a video game.

Their revenge, while sweet, was not nearly as sweet as their effect on the Gamesworkshop curse! For their willpower had dispelled the requirement that all GW games suck harder than your mom. This was typically attributed to rolling a natural 20.

Years later, Gamesworkshop finally thought 'hey, we're evil, but blizzard's power has corrupted them *well* past the point we're at... maybe it's time to rip them off, since they are basically the new darth vader.' (note, actual conversation had at GW HQ).

To ascribe blame to any party is to miss the point. This was *all* the machinations of Satan, and, as a people, we failed to prohibit him from the city limits... *of our hobbies*.

Ultimately, whether WH:O succeeds or not will be largely determined by how much time we have left to the apocalypse.

deathbunny

i would rather they did this than be another vanguard.

this pack looks like hawt sawce

demonknightinuyasha

@KirbyMorph: Blah, Blah, Blah. Tolkien ripped off ancient fantasy tales from Old English stories. He did not come up with everything himself. He basically took all the old fairy tales and spun them into a world. It is pretty hard nowadays to be completely original. Most of the time, the idea is derived off something before it. Don't hate because of that, hate only if it is VERY similar.

Back on track, I don't care about this game anyways. The graphics are dated and the combat system is nothing new. I am really excited for Conan since I played the beta and found it quite fun.

MrSatan

As sad as it is that I won't be playing this in the summer (marking my first foray into the world of MMORPG since I stopped playing City of Villains a year ago), I'd much rather they push this rather ambitious title back and get all the kinks worked out than release a shitty game. (I'm looking at you... pretty much ever MMO ever)

And for those who call this a straight out WOW clone, well, it's not. Admittedly, there are a lot of similarities, but the Warhammer MMO is going for a greater level of depth than WOWs 70 level grind. Check out the website, and read up on some of the features. It sounds intriguing.

Insomnia Bob

Played beta; needs longer than 'till autumn, expect another delay.

Gladman

you want orcs in cheerleader outfits?
here's one...
[i225.photobucket.com]

AngryNorwegian

It probably had all the time in the world to create "Depth" after it just cloned WoW ;)

I'm holding out for the Future of WoW, Warhammer doesn't hold a lighter to Warcraft.

Never has, Never will.

JamesR87