@deathtastic: How is it "unintuitive"? Seriously... I can see not liking it... but "unintuitive"? Compared to other RTS's? Are you sure that's the word you're looking for?

And even if it is... "very" unintuitive?

Please explain... because this looks pretty straightforward to me. In fact, that's one of the things people above you are griping about: the fact that it's sticking so close to the old formula without adding more complexity/innovation.

dv8godd

This looks very unintuitive. Pretty much the original with 3 more units in each race and a nifty terrain system But i can play CnC, supreme commander, the original starcraft ect... And pretty much any resource based rts and have more fun. Dow is alright but needed at least 2 extra months. I for one find CoH the best rts at the moment or at least the most original and most fun, and is the first rts in a long while that actually made a few steps forward.

deathtastic

@dv8godd: Of course, single player campaigns and skirmishes are centered around story, cool cinematics, fielding a large army and just watching it obliterate the enemy and similar things, it's much more relaxed, because you win (almost) 100% of the time, while in multiplayer matches you win 50% on average, so they are much more intense and are focused around playing the best possible way, which also means abusing every hole in the balance between races/units/strategies, so a flaw that can cost you a victory in multiplayer or force you to play in the same way every game, will be just a mild annoyance in single player(or won't affect you at all, since multiplayer flaws like bad balance doesn't play a real role vs CPU players and in the campaigns).

mizeriq

@mizeriq: I like both as well... I try to ignore other people when they try to ruin it for me. :) As I've said, I've only played DoW in single player... so maybe that was a good choice for me.

I tend to like multiplayer games where everyone starts on an even keel rather than games where "i got gimped in the beginning" or "that side is imbalanced" ever creeps up as a possible issue. I don't really MP RTS for that matter... mostly because, though I enjoy them immensely, I don't think I'm very good. I'm also extremely methodical... I try to play SP campaigns like StarCraft without loosing a single unit... not really the mindset to MP with.

Yeah, DoW has some issues... but I don't much mind them in SP... for me that's all about the story and the campaigns. I'm not nutty about Warhammer, but I've always been fascinated with it... though I tend to feel that I'd like to RPG in the universe, perhaps strangely, since they haven't made anything like a true RPG that I've ever seen.

dv8godd

@Lokku: Actually I did search your posts, and yes while you gave SC grudging props here and there it seemed like just that, very grudging.

Regardless of that, most of my response to you should have been directed more broadly, which I would have added but my GF was yelling at me to stop posting and come to bed ;)

DaiMacculate

@Markyboy: Btw, are you serious about DoW being for advanced rts players?

There is no worker management - cutting worker production for faster a push, mainyarding, zerg larva mangement, e.t.c; no economy harrasment; no real need for scouting or blocking scouting; no doom drops; there were even no air units, so no air harrasment, air superiority based strategies, e.t.c; no macro; you can't even pull back a sinlge unit that's focus fired, you can just focus fire back and other micro aspects removed; no positional gameplay; there are no real rushing or fast expansion builds at all, because you use your army for both and always expand.

I'm sorry but stripping down the depth does not make it for advanced players.
It's funny that there are tons of similar "discussions"(it's mainly noobs prasing their game for depth and innovation, which actually is just not well thought out and shallow) on lots of gaming forums and it's always another rts game(CnC, AoE, WiC) vs SC, why... because SC is the KING and every rts is compared to it.

mizeriq

@pok514: Ghosts for life!

Btw that video is pretty damn old, and for the demonstrations they probably tweaked some things a bit to show a point that unit A owns unit B more effectively. And it's done quick so it can move on to the next unit.

Lokku

Cmon, stop hating on Dawn of war, obviously some of you have either only watched the videos, or haven't given multiplayer a shot.

I've seen multiple posts calling dow unbalanced (etc), what is this, some kind of mantra?

I'm a huge fan of warcraft 3 and the starcraft franchise, but man I agree that Blizzard really needs to try and be a bit mor original. Thor? Jetpack troops? Ghost's are now snipers?

Thor btw is a really retarded name for that unit, why couldn't they follow suit with like the goliath tanks etc. Between the "viking","valkyrie", and now Thor, where's odin and loki? I want badass names like goliaths, carriers, arbiters, dragoons, etc stuf like that. Thor....please, what do you say when you see multiple thors coming...god thats retarded.

OH NO FOUR Thors coming this way!!!

I just hope the other races try and spice things up a bit more.

What the hell is with units dying so fast, sure units had weakness in the previous game, but there was no one shot kill to every unit....

BTW: If the Vikings replaced the Valkyries from Starcraft BW, that would suck!

pok514

@Markyboy:

I like how if i don't enjoy a game i'm "bad" at it, and "simple." If you don't see the poorly balanced multiplayer aspects of the game are then i can't help you. Furthermore, saying that a game has balance issues doesn't make it for "hardcore!!! OMG I LOVE RTSs AND AM SO GOOD AT HARD ONES" gamers. People say that SC and WC3 have balance issues all the time and those games are for us simple minded folk, isn't that right?

Mpalm.

hm comments taking long to appear

Lokku

@DaiMacculate: lol jesus, got to love all the commenter's here.

ctrl+f Lokku, read all my posts.

You can all see im not a fanboy of any kind, I love games(RTS included), I love that SC2 is coming out. Im getting it, and i love the fact that it's still classic old SC.

there :P

Lokku

I like SC and this look like a major Improvement from the first especially Graphically. Not to say the Game mechanics needed a face lift but this should be fun to immerse yourself into.

MXs219

@Lokku: So, you're annoyed with SC2 because every other game will copy it, because we all love it and will play it? Because some of the MP players will go to another level of ridiculous nerd precision to become "elite" at playing it (read: half of Korea)?

Resource gathering, something you basically want to eliminate from the strategic mix, is a crucial feature of the type of RTS that Starcraft and Warcraft represent. I'm glad you like that DoW did that, please feel free to keep playing DoW and its direct and/or spiritual sequels. I fail to see what any of this has to do with Starcraft II.

Are you one of those people who is annoyed that football fans buy Madden games also? Or that Dynasty Warriors exists?

You need to let it go man. All this time and you could have been playing a game you love instead of railing against one you obviously have mixed feelings about...at best ;)

Also, what Sonic84 said. PC RTS players need not be at each others throats this way, there are relatively few enough as it is. I say be happy if even just a few SC2 noobs end up getting into DoW later, if nothing else look at it that way, its the gateway drug into RTS addiction.

DaiMacculate

@clintonskneecap:

Clearly you know absolutely nothing about the genre.

@Markyboy:

Necron were very overpowered when i played the game, though i haven't picked it up in ages because it's pretty dull. I don't hate the game at all, i just don't think it's that great. I was very good at it, though, like all RTSs. I just think starcraft and wc3 required more micro because much better players play those games. At least the people i've played against in DoW were very unimpressive even at higher levels of play.

Mpalm.

Duck and cover, the fanboys are eating eachother alive!!!!

Sonic84

some dudes could probably play SC2 for another 10 years and learn everything about it down to the crust, but I for once require a bit more variety :P

Lokku

@exeprime: ZZzzz fanboy reaction..

Comparing everything I said and applying it to SC when i previously mentioned a few times I was quite happy with SC left alone..

If you think all of that stuff i mentioned doesnt improve the genre and dont need it, you might as well be playing a spread sheet. Cause all you care about is stats, and the reaction time to win an MP game. Not all RTS players know or want to know, the game down to every animation/bug exploit and the maximum efficiency distance to gather resources with the optimal flow of gatherers, etc and all of the other crazy nuances out there which take years to retain.

I did that for a couple of years discovered it's not fun at all, it goes beyond a game into an addictive mess of winning. But i digress

OTHER FUTURE games need to evolve and stop sticking to the tired, beaten to death formula. I can already imagine the amount of poorly made SC2 clones.

Lokku

@exeprime: Excellent, Excellent Post.

DaiMacculate

I hadn't seen this, so don't feel bad Luke.

artofwar420

@dv8godd: I like both, but warhammer fans are quite annoying. DoW, just like the CnC series is a single player RTS. There are simply too many flaws for intense multiplayer, after all am I supposed to battle against not well thought out ideas or my opponent?! I won't even mention balance issues...
Squads move away for other units to pass even when there is enough space and in battle and often will still block the way, because every squad tries to make way individually.
Attacking a specific building/unit just out of range of static defense is impossible, because some of the units will insist on getting in range in order to keep their formation.
2 soldiers can reinforce 2 times faster than 2 soldiers and take up more supply than 10 soldiers(yes, the arbitrary split into squads doesn't make sense). Also a single unit attacking one of them in melee will force all 10 to attack in melee(even if they are a screen away, which can happen, although they are supposed to be used as a single entity).
Infinite resources = stalemates, when similarly skilled. Units cost a different amount for producing a new squad and for reinforcements, some cost more, some cost less, magic!

mizeriq

Argh, I thought this was going to be a new video! I was watching it and was, like, "Wait, this all seems somewhat familiar..."

Still cool, though. Thanks for the post!

As an aside, I still have no idea how people can multitask so well in RTS games. I always just build a massive army and bust in. I can't figure out how people can have, like, one group here, one group there, and coordinate so well.

kylenalepa

@mizeriq: ok only 1 country has televison stations dedicated to it. South Korea uses SC for a reason one of the big factors is that they are able to play it on old systems. I spent the two years stationed in South Korea and let me tell you their computers are not as high end as ours. As for the FEW american tornamnets here. If they upgraded the game the played every year then it would be hard for them to hold the torny. They don't change the rules of the super bowl every year.

clintonskneecap

@exeprime: ...damn, all these raging Blizz fanbois are gonna meke me hate that awesome universe.

clintonskneecap

...damn, all these raging Warhammer fanbois are gonna make me hate that awesome universe.

exeprime

C'mon people, that flag system worked well for DoW, but I would HATE to see it in every RTS from now on. It's a nice distraction, but RTS is VERY MUCH about resources, getting them, controlling them, managing them... Simplifying everything to the level of flags would be blasphemy in Starcraft, where resource management defines the game in a capital fashion. "Amazing animations" and "many races" are bullcrap. I would never need that. First of all, graphics become rather irrelevant in the heat of the battle, Starcraft doesn't give you much time to admire units dying. In multiplayer you start hating yourself for every missed click that unnecessarily wastes time. Ballancing three races is hard enough [SC experienced LOADS of patches, even though it was always "ballanced", it's hard to reach the perfection blizzard were aiming], and having more races would probably dilute the storyline. Most Starcraft players i know *really* love their race, the level of connection and fidelity they feel towards it is almost ridiculous. I for one love the protoss, and having loads of offshoots doesn't really sound appealing. It's a matter of focus.

Cover would somewhat reduce the need to micro, which is again, a defining element of the SC experience. Positional weak spots... a decent idea, maybe, but it wouldn't fit the fast and furious gameplay of starcraft very well.

And, thinking of it, actually most (all?) of the innovations you people praise in DoW were actually found in other games before it in one form on another.

exeprime

@Markyboy: I guess you like to make things up, but hardcore RTS players are playng Starcraft(FOR A REASON!), that's why it has multiple tournaments with hundreds of thousands of dollars in prizes every year and TV channels dedicated to it, and that's 10 years after release. What kind of a hardcore following DoW has? None.

mizeriq

Is it me or dose it look like you'd need like 5000 marines to fight anything in that.

Maiken

The real problem with DoW I found is that ever race is basically the same except a few units. In Starcraft the races are totally different and the game is incredibly balanced. I play both but I think SC 2 is gonna be WICKED SICK.

-AS

Archaic Stigma

I also am a bit guilty, as i cant bring myself to play most RTS' after playing DoW+CoH, unless it actual included some features. It just feels like stepping down to "last-gen" As i said b4, i'll allow SC, for I have a big soft spot for it and it's a classic. Im actually quite glad they are sticking to it's original design.

But future RTS' really should include..What DoW/CoH introduced:

-Amazing animations,
not the same hack over and over again. You saw a huge battle with awesome little skirmishes, of dodging, kicking,slashing, shooting, tossed into the air, and not to forget the fatality moves when a unit is finished off. This made battles fun and come to life.

-Scraped old resorce system, hello strategic points. Never again you have the mundane task of collect gold/wood/oil and setting up another base next to a resource. Instead you capture points which generated income, and focused totally on the fun stuff, the fights. Instead you micro managed all the various units in their squads and their huge amount of abilites. And planning your next move.

-destructible Cover system
Destructible maps, with terrain holding strategic value, need i say more.

-Positional weak points
CoH, tanks were weak from behind.

- not really required but Loads of races to play.
Sure balancing was harder, but with like 8 races to pick there's a look and play style to suit pretty much everyone and it makes things alot more exciting.

and i bet there's more stuff i forgot, but those are the major ones i can think off atm.

Lokku

@Markyboy: I agree DoW is not perfectly balanced it is also not balanced in the normal way ie for 1vs1 its balanced for groups of 2vs2 or more.

clintonskneecap

@Mpalm.:
don t hate a game because you re not good at it. remember dow is for advanced rts player who are looking for a bit more to an rts game.
if you cannot aknowledge dow and coh s innovations than you are a bit simple minded. ( by the way people who are complaining that dow is unbalanced are the proof that the game ain t for mass gamers. dow s balance is not perfect. same thing for sc.)

by the way sc is an amazing game.cant t wait to play it. but i am disapointed because as of now it doesn t look like they stepped up to dow s innovative standards

Markyboy

@Mpalm.: necrons are a race added in the 2nd of 3 expansions.

1. they are only OP if you are a noob and don't know how to kill them.

2. DoW is not for the masses is because its made for advanced RTS players. It is a bit more complicated then SC is. Now I know you are gonna say something stupid like "OMG SC IZ DA BEST! DOW IS BASIC CRAP" and you would be wrong one day you might realize that but I don't think that will be today.

3. Blizz has always made their games so that anyone who is completely new to video games can pick up and play them. There is nothing wrong with that at all in fact I like that about blizz. If I want to get a friend hooked on Video Games I show them Blizz games.

clintonskneecap

oh man that's so sweet

Mlata

@Mpalm.: skill and talent are not the words I would use to describe people who play RTS. Thats like saying I have mad skills at Candy Land.

clintonskneecap

@Mpalm.: *sigh* Pretty much anyone can see all Blizz games, EVER MADE, follow the extremely effective formula of refining very very basic foundations of their games. They turn out great in the end, but "simple." They never take risks, they don't innovate, they never focus on a particular aspect, so that their games can appeal to everyone.

And Im not some DoW fanboy, i can admit balance is a bit silly, and i an not purchasing the new exp pack because of it. :P

But you keep missing the damn point and fail to comprehend the word that i type.

Dow+coh= innovated ideas never presented b4 in an RTS
Blizz = solid, great. not innovative/lack creativity.

Please no more "BUT THE SCORES!!11" and "THESE GAMES ARE BETTER, DOW SUCKS!" arguments, they scream fanboy. :(

Lokku

o and i rather not have "creeping" in my rts' either. That was horrible.

Lokku

@Lokku:

I still don't agree that SC or WC3 were built for the masses, but you keep on thinking that. What makes DoW not built for the masses? Is it just the fact that it's not very popular? "Well... not many people play it, so it's not built for the masses!" Face it, DoW is an okay game, but it has too many flaws to become great and its still disgustingly imbalanced. Go Go necron!

Mpalm.

I love all the recent SC2 news, even though this clip is a bit old. I for one like that the core strategy is the same. Why do anything that screws up the balance? SC with 'just' new units & updated graphics? SOLD.

Starcraft2008

o yes, i rather have "creeping" out of my rts aswell, wtf was that load of crap. :P

Lokku

@Mpalm.: You misunderstand. Yes player scores woop-dee-doo, they built a solid game, still doesnt mean there's innovation and I rather have lvling out of my rts' ;)

misunderstood again, look at ALL blizz games. They are all generic, basic, "Built for the masses" which is my point. But i do agree all these games do have nuances and "hidden" depth, as previously mentioned by someone else in this thread.

Lokku

People also seem to be forgetting this is the game in its ALPHA stage. The game still has a lot of changes to go through.

Mpalm.

Extremely old. Bad Kotaku!

Seiru

@willyolio: yeah I have seen some of those but they don't seem to have the same number as DoW. I mean there are tons of ways to die in that.

clintonskneecap

@SSJPabs: Single player content should be quite substantial and knowing blizzard, the campaigns would have some very cool scenarios, story/plot development and sweet cinematics.

Plus it's defo gonna have map/campagin editors thrown in, so you can make you own stuff. And since It's going to be immensely popular, imagine all the user created content that's going to be released.

You will most surely get "bang for your buck" imo.

Lokku

@Lokku:

And basic? If you think a game like SC is basic, then you haven't played any skilled players. Check out a few professional matches in either SC or WC3 and you'll see what they do is far from basic.

Mpalm.

@Lokku:

Yeah wc3 = puke, except for the fact that it had higher scores than both of the relic games.

Mpalm.

Eh, it's fun but there's no way I'm paying full price for it. Doesn't seem that different than any other RTS.

SSJPabs

People that think DoW + COH has no innovation hasn't played them for long or just don't play RTS in general. Relic has done more for the genre than any other has done since the last SC. (WC 3 = puke, cept story mode)

That being said, i love blizz games, the quality and refinement is excellent even though it's a bit basic "built for the masses" type games. I would normal shoot such an old school style RTS' like this down, in this day and age. However since it's Blizz and since it's SC, which i have a soft spot for, I'll allow it :P

Lokku

This is months old. Thanks for getting my hopes up for some actually new footage.

Chauncey Donovan

Cmon, most of the units are ripped off of w40k universe anyway. Terran=space marines, they have had drop pods forever, Zerg=Tyranids, and the protoss=tau. All these rock paper scissor units provide a little too much balance, that was the same problem with c & c 3.

gund4mxzero

It's... just... so... beautiful...

I'm sure I'll be lynched for saying this, but I really respect what Blizzard's doing with the "It'll come out when it's ready" statement. They seem to have learned that announcing faux release dates and delaying over and over again does not make happy consumers.

I actually boycotted buying Warcraft 3 for that reason. However, I like how they're working the hype for SC2 now. A lot of the same people who complained about their delays before are now complaining about how Blizzard's just keeping us wondering, but I'm happy about what they're doing.

Kudos to Blizzard. You can expect to see my money in your wallets when this game is released.

Mxylsptlk

@Markyboy:

You're just mad because Dawn of War is crappy and imbalanced :(

All of its "innovation" is just shiny paint that takes away from the game instead of adding to it by attempting to cover up its flaws.

I think the popularity card can be thrown when you take a game that is over a decade old and it still has a higher player base than dawn of war.

Mpalm.

These videos still aren't finished, if you haven't noticed many animations haven't been put in yet.

For example each unit has their own picture frame, for most of the units it was the default one. So this game still has much to go.

To hate the game because it is the shinier version of the best RTS of all times is just BS because what can they really do to perfection?

PXShaman

@Markyboy: I said nothing about which game was better. I invited you to keep playing the one you obviously like, with its small but very devoted following, and don't worry about the one that the rest of us prefer.

I thought that was pretty basic...oh and Halo is not a "crap shooter", its not the best FPS ever made but its better than most of the crappy shooters out there at the moment. Did you even play it?

Assassin's Creed was also not a bad game, had tons of flaws but then most games that ambitious do. Seems to me reading the comments here your beloved 40k might be one of those as well.

I didn't play much 40k Dawn of War and have Zero Interest in playing it again...you'll notice if there is a 40k post on here you won't see me on there, because I don't comment on games I have no intention of playing...like you seem to be doing here with SC2.

Oh and please, please get yourself a browser that spell checks, for all of our sakes.

DaiMacculate

Watch the campaign videos before you all keep whining about no innovation. They're on Youtube, 4 of them, posted yesterday.

argh

@DaiMacculate:

hmm.. the popularity card... halo is ultra popular but its still a crap shooter. and by those standards assassins creed is a good game.

popularity doesn t mean shit.

weak argument. sc2 looks like a brood war add on.
no inovation.

Markyboy

@clintonskneecap:
there's multiple death animations. i don't know if they're in this video because it's old, but in subsequent videos you can see marines getting blown up, shot in the head and falling, and chopped in half (both vertically and horizontally). they took out lots of extra animations for large vehicles because they cluttered the screen too much.

the reason it looks like SC with shinier graphics is because that's essentially what it is. it's starcraft. it has a fabulous combination of resource management, micro and macromanagement of units, etc. those make the game what it is.

willyolio

It's becoming clear that this game will be quite dull and generic on the surface, but beyond the superficial and seemingly old-hat looks will lurk a game of great depth and refinement.

To judge this book by its cover is likely to be a big mistake.

ErskinPig

@bosintang:
i.e. normal maps. in any normal map in SC, the resources in your main base are never enough to last. in fact, often you can't even mine fast enough with just one base.

heavy turtling only happens (successfully) with unlimited-resource maps.

willyolio

@Scioptic: I agree with you 100% I mean it seems to me like this would have been amazing 7 years ago but the fact that they took 10 years to do it makes me wonder why they didn't add more to it.

To me it looks like SC with shiner graphics WAIT BEFORE YOU HATE I know that for some of you thats all you want and thats great for you I am happy. However me after seeing how RTS have evolved I just expected more.

Me I will stick with DoW after all with out it SC wouldn't be what it is today.

It also looks like every unit in this only has one death animation. One thing I loved about DoW is how every unit has tons of ways to die. It was fun to just sit back and watch the units get ripped apart.
@Moonshadow101:

don't forget about the new Ultralisk look.

clintonskneecap

Sweet, Metal Gear made an appearance.

Arkley

@bosintang:

People can turtle all they want as you gain control over the entire map and overrun them with sheer number and resources.

Mpalm.

between the drop pods and reapers... they're not even trying to conceal it anymore, are they?

Moonshadow101

seeing all these new great base defenses, including the ones for the other races, make me fear we'll see more turtling.
supply depots that can sink, command centers with guns, zerg queens etc.
i guess the only way u can eliminate turtling is to have maps with smaller gold+gas depots.

bosintang

@Kyle81: Um, yeah, it kinda is. Not very good at these analogies, are ya?

Jonn

@Markyboy:
dawn of war= hardcore rts players

Yes, and I'm sure all 5000 of you that play it get quite a bit of enjoyment out of it. The rest of us will still just play SC2 instead.

DaiMacculate

I wanna see Samir Duran plot in all of this.

Herodito

I can't wait for this game. I'm just giddy thinking about hit and run guerilla tactics. I missed ya Blizzard.

Tepoz

@Mpalm.: Warhammer 40k is best played on the tabletop, while i found Dawn of War fun to play, it does lack the grand-scale of it.

I find Supreme Commander much more fun, and judging from SCII video, this is going to be just as fun as well.

Unless DoW get titans and other things sorted it just won't be as good as the table top games.

Onizuka-GTO

Blizzard never ceases to amaze me with its creativity.

Project Thanatos

weren't the cobras tentatively canceled (in favor of the jackals, i think)?

DaoKaioshin

My jaw was on the floor when the Command Center turned into a planetary defense thing! That was sweet as hell!!! And the drop pods were awesome too!

I can't wait, now I have to go play old skool SC. Been playing for 10+ years, why stop now?

Thassodar

@dv8godd:

Unless necron was removed recently from the game, then i don't think it has been balanced. Either way, i found it to be a very dull game, even with all the shiny paint to cover up its flaws.

Mpalm.

@Mpalm.: I've only played the single-player on 40k... so I wouldn't know, honestly.

I would figure they'd be patching imbalance issues like everyone usually does tho. No?

I mean, we're up to 3 expansions now and more factions than I can count on two hands or something... have there not been patches that fix unforeseen imbalances?

I mean, I know Blizzard is great at balance... but that's also because they can afford to spend 2 years on that part of the process. Few, er... probably "no" other companies can anymore.

dv8godd

Seen it before, but I want it just as badly now as I ever have, especially since they unveiled the Zerg.

Zanch

@dv8godd:

I'm not saying it's imbalanced because it has a lot of technical additions, i'm saying it's imbalanced because the creators never decided to balance out the races. Sure, let's throw in a shitload of races and have 2 that are far superior to all others... so basically, the game has 2 races (that are viable at least).

Mpalm.

dammn.

how come watching this reminds me of Warhammer 40K?

Those Reapers are just Assault marines!

And that Thor!! wow!

dammn i really like the idea od individually outfitting the weaponry on each "BATTLECWUISERS"

wow, this makes me want to play it now....

:/

Onizuka-GTO

@Kyle81:

Then what is the best? All the thing you are calling innovations are just your opinion, I personally found Dawn of War to be one step forward and two steps back.

Dawn of War was inferior to WarCraft 3, let alone StarCraft, because of the reasons you mention as its strengths. Call me a fanboy all you want, but the proof is the gameplay.

Dawn of War has interesting ideas, but one of StarCrafts strengths was that resource management and expansion control was more important then zone control, allowing for more strategy in countering the enemies economy. It also allowed you to easily "starve" out a player through superior map control, rather then the near limtless resources gained by even just a few "little flags".

Also, StarCraft has much faster gameplay because attacks matter. You have to be on your toes rather then letting the units themselves cover and avoid attacks for you. Watching a group of Mutalisks dance around the screen and slaughter a superior force is a lot better then watching a bunch of marines shoot or stab eachother the same way every single time.

Don't even get me started on balance, play Necrons or Space Marines, if you try anything else just wait to get owned by the Necros or Space Marines. The entire Dark Crusade campaign was a joke, and the Necrons made it all the worst since it felt like I was playing Solitare.

This is getting way longer then I anticipated, so I will end now. I enjoyed Dawn of War, and you will have Dawn of War 2, but don't dare think we as StarCraft players want that ridiculous system. We want a system that makes things matter, with balance that keeps every race viable, Dawn of War didn't have that, which is why StarCraft still has more active players then it.

ScytheRexx

@Kyle81, @Mpalm.: Is there not room to like both? Why does one have to be clearly superior to the other when they're two different things anyway?

One is concentrating on lots of features and lots of factions... the other is streamlining an experience to concentrate on core elements.

When did the world get so small that there was only room for one game in our lives?

Just because one has a lot of technical additions doesn't make it inherently imbalanced and just because the other doesn't have all kinds of feature addons doesn't means it's for kids.

Let's argue about something more important... like how they're both better than what the Halo RTS is gonna be or something. :/

dv8godd

The reason some people like DoW is because of its dumbed down resource managment and simple mechanics. Really what this does is it makes it easier for the player to play without having to worry about micro management. This strikes people as being "innovative" and "better" because they can do incredible things very easily. This however takes out any factor of skill. Whoever can build faster and get more units faster wins. Strategic points give unlimited resources which in itself takes out half the strategies that can implemented in SC. There are tons of differences and really in the end its the person's preference.

soyombo2001

@Kyle81:

It seems you are upset because dawn of war is crappy and imbalanced.

Mpalm.

@Mpalm.: Your rabid fanboyism to the game really blinds you eh? It's not about flag resource, it's about territory/battlefield control. Dawn of War also introduced morale effects to troops, actual terrain differences/elevations, cover system, etc, etc.

Not to say SC is a bad game, but just cause its the most popular doesn't make it the best.

Kyle81

@Mpalm.: Popular means it's good right? Seriously don't try to play that stupid card. Just cause a game has sold a ton means it's great? Sims is one of the best games ever then.

Kyle81

@Markyboy:

Also, if you're saying that SC players AREN'T hardcore RTS players, then i suggest you take a trip to Korea. No dawn of war player i've ever seen has come even close to the great SC players in skill and talent.

What does having some flag that magically creates resources instead of having actual workers gather resources have to do with innovation anyway? So they took out the ability to cripple your enemy's economy by hitting their workers... wow. Innovation!

Mpalm.

@Markyboy:

More hardcore than SC? If you mean more imbalanced and less played worldwide, then okay.

Mpalm.

Funny how people try to downplay SC. There's a reason why Blizzard has 2 RTS games that consistantly go to WCG every year, War3 and SC. SC has been at WCG for years. Thats like trying to downplay CS.

T3kNi9e

Ok, I LOVE SC. I've loved it ever since I got the demo on whatever pc mag it was all those years ago (also loved the fact that the demo was like a little prequel to the main games storyline).
No matter what I'm still going to get this game (although I may need a PC update before then, typical eh), but there are things that just aren't sitting right with me, and I blame Dawn of War.

Don't get me wrong, I love DOW too and can't wait for DOW2 to come out either (you just can't not think space marines are cool), but because of DOW I've just been expecting more from SC2.
Watching these videos and reading about SC2 just makes me wish that they'd implemented more gameplay ideas from DOW, rather than just the standard Games Workshop rip-off of jetpacked jump troops and drop-pods. (By the way, I was a SC fan long before DOW, but it's plain to see blizzard ripped off the idea)

Blizzard have had my money for a Starcraft 2 ever since I finished Brood War, but part of me is just feeling a bit empty from what I'm seeing. Maybe I'm just greedy I guess, after enjoying what the RTS genre has had to offer since the original SC. I just expected more.

Even though SC2 will be a HUGE success (with Korea how can it not be?), all of this just leaves me wondering: What will Dawn of War 2 be like? Will it step up to the challenge of Starcraft 2? Or will it fall flat?

Scioptic

Old video, but still fantastic stuff all the same.

kiigan

@Mpalm.:

are you crazy! the warhammer 40k was far more hardcore rts type stuff than starcraft ever was. just the flag capture/ressources production was an innovation that killed the old classic ressource gathering of starcraft. and i am not talking about all the other thing that made rts better.

starcraft=mass consumers
dawn of war= hardcore rts players

Markyboy

It's an older video, but so is the SC2 hate in this thread.

Krytha

Sorry, totally unimpressed.
Relic > Blizzard on RTS

Carylith

@zerokoolpsx: i think that manufactured hybrid race will feature in the single player mode but not make it into the multiplayer game, a race with the production power of the zerg yet the attacking power of the protoss, with shields included would just be an unbeatable multipler force...

but perfectly acceptable in the campaign

dalethedino

You know ... watching this again when compared to the Zerg stuff we have seen ... it seems like the Terrans are well equipped to own the Zerg. All of that air to ground based area of effect damage! How can the Zerg stand up to that?!

To all the SC2 haters: Get over yourself. Blizzard is making the game they want to make. They have obviosuly given every design choice a ton of thought. It might not be the game you were expecting to see (it certainly isn't the StarCraft game I wanted to see), but it is their game.

And you know damn well you will play it regardless of your complaints.

Randroid

@zerokoolpsx: Blizzard already said that there will be no heroes in multiplayer, only in single player.

fumar

@beeawwb: I think its still in pre-alpha and if you noticed there was no picture for the units he was selecting on the HUD so I'm sure that kind of stuff will come in later.

fumar

This is very old.

bshidoheat

"but i have a strange feeling that warhammer 40 k is still going to be far superior to starcraft."

Thats no secret, what with graphics like SC2 has and blizzards complete and total lack of inovation...

Hirmetrium

Nice introduction video for the terrans.
Blizzard should have added the fourth race from Brood Wars, the zerg/protoss hybrid, now that would be interesting. I wonder if this will have hero classes like warcraft 3?

zerokoolpsx

I have mixed feelings about this video. While it does highlight why I always loved (and still do love) the Terran side, it just feels somewhat recycled for me.

Yes, there were clear moments of salivation where I imagined all the possibilities (e.g. the supply pods) and I found myself nodding emphatically at some of the new units. I just felt that there is something missing.

For example, it just feels like they replaced the Vulture with the Cobra. One fast moving unit for another. And some units didn't even get that courtesy.

Finally, I do hope this is an "early" build, because if they've just recycled the sound files for each original unit, I'm going to be quite annoyed. One thing I always loved going from Blizzard sequel to sequel was seeing all the new unit voices. "I love blowin' thing up!"

beeawwb

@Markyboy:

Still? That game was never superior to SC.

@invictus2006:

Blizzard games never require high end PCs to run.

Mpalm.

I love that everything on the terran side is now a weapon, or a defense of somekind; Even the command center turns into a defensive turret.

The reapers look sweet, the ghosts look sweet, the battle cruisers look awsome, the banshees look sweet, the dropping supply depots are awsome, and on and on and on.

Terrans are gonna be sweet.

RPGEmperor

this is why i hate PCs coz you always have to upgrade them to play awsome games. Any chance of this comin out on the PS3/360

invictus2006

man this is awesome!

but i have a strange feeling that warhammer 40 k is still going to be far superior to starcraft.

Markyboy

With all of these glorious video clips, the question arises....how much longer must we wait??? More importantly, can I know now what 3D card I'll need so that I can plan around it??

eduardjm

Its rare than a video clip causes me to salivate involuntarily to this degree.

DaiMacculate

Oh my god this looks amazing...I can't wait to get back into SC!!!

gils0n

I...just...came.

Xmaster

This video is identical in content to one they released a while back.

But, unless its my imagination, it seems the graphics are quite a bit shinier this time around.

brent_w

Colour me unimpressed. This looks exactly like the same RTS we have been playing for the last 15 years with tidier graphics, and while I guess thats exactly what a lot of people want, I kinda hoped Blizzard would have the guts to move things on a little bit.

You know, at least make it LOOK like people are fighting, rather than just lining up 5 feet from each other and occasionally exploding.

Things like CoH, while lacking the balance that blizzard are capable of, at least attempted to do move the genre on a little, to add a little drama to the procedings.

It kinda makes me a little sad that this is going to be so huge, Starcraft and warcrafts gameplay always felt so mechanical and rigid to me, lacking any soul.

ShineDog

That makes me happy in my warm fuzzy place.

Furiursa

Thor!

swordfish2eva1

Not feeling the Protoss love here.

WE NEED ADDITIONAL PYLONS!

Tyber_Zann

oh Luke, you got me all worked up for nothing - this vid has been on the Starcraft 2 website for a while now.

What The Geek

That has been on the official starcraft2 site for a while.

skobar

Mechalicious!

Mohrdikai

this is quite old

caster

Oh man the vikings are just too badass!

Witzbold