@Mr.Waffleton: Yeah since Id say a good portion of the XBLA games are full of SHIT and the quality titles are far and few between.

More stuff seems like half baked money grabbers than actual games.

Its a shame they turn down well known brands that would sell to the core gamers who then would pass on the good word to their more casual friends and such. If anything this is going to cause the exact opposite reaction I say.

Witzbold

Just develop 6 titles and release all of them on a single disc for $60. It will still cost the same for consumers. I'll go a step further and say I'd purchase less than 6 Cave shooters for $60. Buying legitimate copies of these games tend to be expensive to obtain, but will be worth every penny at 6 for $60. I actually want an Ikaruga cabinet...

bluesquareapple

@Witzbold:

See here's what really gets me too, like you and others said, why WOULDN'T they want games like the Cave shmups on there? Hell they can't HURT the service. I think MS is donig this in part in response to the "full of shit" claims made online. If so this is the WRONG response. If anything they need to become stricter on the NEW original titles to make sure they're of sufficiant quality. Not punish people porting well loved games.

@DaiMacculate:
Oh don't even say that, I'm getting pissed just thinking about that happening. Radiant Sivlergun HD needs to happen. And according to Treasure's implications it very well could. If MS shot it down I'd boycott XBLA forever.

Mr.Waffleton

Seeing some of the games on XBLA it makes me wonder if the folks who decide what goes in and stays out of the "system" have ANY tastes in games what-so-ever.

Witzbold

@cybereality:
ummm alien hominid was out before the XBLA on the PS2 and Gamecube and Geometry Wars was an HD version of a bonus game found on Xbox's Project Gotham Racing 2... I'm not being a punk but all I am saying is that things are not so original...BUT that does not make them bad either, those were 3 great games you pointed out.

Antek718

Why do these companies turn down anything? The more the merrier. They should be trying to get as many games as possible as quickly as possible. We gamers will play the quality games and ignore the crummy games. It barely costs Microsoft anything to put a game up there. If the game sucks, it's the developer that takes the hit.

Apreche

@Kanik: I will good money (up to $20) for a Simpsons Arcade HD Remix w/ online.

cybereality

@Mr.Waffleton: Exactly.

Witzbold

They need more original games on XBLA. Games like geometry wars, alien homonid, or pac-man CE. Most of the shovel-ware arcade ports are crap. The graphics are like worse than the same game on a PC emulator and they aren't even wide-screen. In fact, XBLA has made me realize how horrible some of those "classic" aracade games really were.

cybereality

All I know is that if this new "policy" is ever proven to hold up/prevent a Radiant Silvergun XBLA port, I'm grabbing my pitchfork and a torch....;)

DaiMacculate

@ibogost: I dont think being "different" is really going to help all that much. Whoever has more content wins in the end. The bigger selection the more folks will be tempted to buy something.

Sides pulling shit like this just creates bad blood which shuts doors in the future.

Even more so with Japan, since Im sure most of you folks here have no idea how much of a pain in the ass it is to get IP holders to actually agree to something and move foward. Then to be turned down is just a great big cock slap which will be remembered and not in a good way.

Witzbold

Personally I don't think XBLA has delivered as a platform. Don't get me wrong - the process of actually getting games is all really seamless, and offering free trial versions of everything is clearly the best route for everyone (something Sony and Nintendo should note). However for every Pac-Man CE, there are five Undertows. For every Geometry Wars, there are five Screwjumpers. There is so much rubbish, so much retro tat, it completely undermines the platform.

Microsoft got so many things right with XBLA. They deserve full credit for that. They made it extremely attractive to developers, and simple for customers to use. In my opinion though, they completely mismanaged the content. The games, the games, the games. Certainly, establishing XBLA as a platform meant getting plenty of content, but where was the quality control? There are some genuinely wonderful games on XBLA, but they are lost amidst a sea of mediocre tat and utter garbage. It's a bloody shame.

No doubt WiiWare has both Microsoft and Sony reassessing the future of their respective online services. Reducing the amount of crappy arcade ports is a good first step. If the threat from Nintendo makes Microsoft also reconsider their strategy for growing XBLA - for instance a greater focus on high-value, original, creative, accessible, exclusive games - it could be the best thing to happen to XBLA. Competition brings out the best in people :)

kiigan

Yeah this makes total sense. Their "Xbox Live Arcade Awards went almost exclusively to arcade psorts, and many of the top sellnig titles are arcade ports. So why wouldn't they want to quit releasing them? I mean, why release arcade ports people buy and often enjoy when you could be releasing things like Boggie Bunnies and Rocketmen Axis of Evil???

I swear MS needs ti fire the entire XBLA team and get some people with some commong fuckning sense. They pass up on two well loved Cave shooters ytet allowed Bliss Island. WTF?

Mr.Waffleton

So...whats next? Remakes or new titles?
Maybe I misread, but to me it seems like they want new games to have a little more spotlight? Reminds me of the other article where it says Nintendo is stealing independent devs for Wiiware....but that's just me ;D

Hades

@Witzbold, @Guitaratomik: I don't really think Microsoft is reacting to recent public opinion; I think this has been in their minds for some time. My impression is that they are trying to reduce noise on XBLA by making the titles on the channel more unique to the platform, which they perceive as a differentiator from arcade ports on PSN (Q*Bert, classic + update) and on Wii (emulated originals). I suspect Pac Man Championship Edition was a strong motivator of this new strategy.

ibogost

@Guitaratomik: The problem isn't that there's so many bad games (though there are), it's that there's so few good games.

XBLA has so much potential but so little of it is realized. There's no reason why there aren't tons of classic console games from the Sega and NEC consoles, or classic PC games. Yeah, original is always best but nostalgia is a big part of the kinds of small titles I'm willing to buy.

The Wreckard

@Witzbold:
Yeah and people pay for them because only hardcore gamers buy them in the first place =/
Top name games gets to be more expensive and the companies gets away with it because we have become zombies with the thirst for more... Cuz I'm one of those zombies that can't resist no matter how common sense tells me otherwise. Sad but true T_T
How many people would pay $100 for a FF7 remake? (I think that's Square's strategy too, make us hungrier and hungrier until we'd pay our souls for it) =)

Dir_en_grey

I am torn here. Part of me wishes we could have more straight up ports of the old arcade games I grew up playing. The other part of me realizes that these games are oftentimes not nearly as fun as I remembered them being when I do get the chance to play them again.

That said, I can't help but also applaud Microsoft's efforts to update older arcade games. Probably the best example of this is the upcoming revamped version of the original Bionic Commando. The game looks stellar, and I can't wait to play it, simply because I loved the original game, and this updated version looks fantastically realized.

I also think Microsoft has done gamers a great service in adding online multiplayer to many old arcade games. The online multiplayer has really made old games, like Doom, for example, that much sweeter.

Overall, I'm pretty happy, but I'd love to see a re-imagined version of Ikari Warriors or any of the other games I loved as a kid.

DugDawg

@KirbyMorph: Because MS has the CHANCE to make a difference. Thats fucking why. Use your head boy.

MS has done some pretty stupid shit in the past so I highly doubt this is one of those RARE occasions where they are actually using some logic.

Witzbold

@Witzbold: Do Nintendo or Sony ever LEARN? No, why should MS?

Honestly, though, I'm not sure why MS would try to stop people from making games for the XBLA. Doesn't make sense, which makes me think there's more going on than we know. For all we know, MS could be stopping them because they are trying to do some half assed port that has no Live features, no online scoring, multiplayer and runs at 10 fps just to mkae a quick buck off people. We don't know, but I can't see MS just saying no to them because they don't want any arcade ports anymore.

KirbyMorph

@Guitaratomik: I do that too, but it just goes to show that MS does not know what QUALITY is when allowing certian shit into the market place even more so when put into comparison to the games that they had turned down.

You want to cause more mutual trust in a business relationship not bad feelings and a big fuck you. This will bite them in the ass again just as other "decisions" they have made in the past.

Witzbold

I should add though, that I think this policy is dumb. ESPECIALLY when you're turning down Japanese developed games that never saw a release over here in the first place.

Guitaratomik

@Antek718: Yeah it was definitely an arcade release, I think it was mainly sold as an upgrade kit for the existing TMNT arcade cabinet (The Simpsons probably was as well). I never saw it in the arcades either, but to be honest having played it on MAME, unless you really want to play with four players the SNES version is superior. It has extra levels, the graphics look better in some ways and the music is better.

photoboy

@Witzbold:

I feel like this is a reaction to everyone calling the majority of XBLA "shit" though. Personally, I feel the more the better since every game has a demo and I just don't buy what sucks.

But apparently other people are unable to do that.

Guitaratomik

It amazes me we still don't have XBLA versions of all sorts of arcade classics, especially the early textured 3D games like Sega Rally, Ridge & Rave Racer, Daytona, etc. Most of them got home ports, but they were never perfectly accurate reproductions. Then there's all the Konami games like Turtles in Time, Aliens, Simpsons, X-Men, etc that I would also really like to see.

I'd love an accurate conversion of Time Crisis 1 but with no light gun on the 360 that one wouldn't really be worth it.

In fact looking at all my XBLA games, aside from Pac-Man CE none of my XBLA games are not arcade titles and Pac-Man is based on an arcade game anyway! Seems to me MS would be best served to get more arcade ports done rather than less. Hurrying up with Ikaruga and then getting on with Radiant Silvergun would be a good start....

photoboy

@Dir_en_grey: I think you would change your mind when the price is 6000 yen for something like Raiden Fighters or whatever the reciently released Raiden game on the 360 is.

Witzbold

I don't have a problem with arcade ports as long as they're games that you can't easily get in those compilations they release every 3-5 years. You'd think this would be obvious, but I guess not!

DeBurgo

I think it's a good move.

Tuxy79

@Dir_en_grey:
My bad, I missed the point... Disk release VS XBL download... m(_ _)m

Makes sense if they are trying to sell the game, and the game will reach more people if released on Disk since some don't have Harddrives.

But if the games are getting released, I don't see a difference and I prefer a on Disk release more than download anyway.

Dir_en_grey

@ibogost: I mean shit quite a few of their other games on XBL dont exactly do the system justice either.

I dont see the harm in just increasing their library in the first place. Its behavior like this that makes devs wary of the MS brand here in Japan.

Totally fucking STUPID move again by the company that just does not LEARN.

Witzbold

I guess I was older at the time and did not go to arcades anymore, but was Turtles in Time really in the arcade? I know I had it for SNES so there might be hope fpr a virtual console port then

Antek718

@Dir_en_grey: I hope so, would love to see dondon pachi but :/ well see I guess.

MugiMugi

That's upsets me. The nipples of mother hope have run dry.

Guild_Navigator

@Kanik: Oh bloody hell. Turtles in Time 4 player on XBL = epic.

edb87

I hope @ibogost has it right, or that they can go to PSN or WiiWare without too much trouble...

beeporama (brian.j.parker)

I've heard this from Microsoft directly too. The idea, if I understand it right, is that MS is more interested in "reinventions" or "updates" of classic arcade games. They probably feel that the straight arcade porting market is too noisy or difficult and doesn't highlight the features of the Xbox 360. Otherwise said, it has to have particle effects.

ibogost

I just want me my Bionic Commando and then they can pull the plug on whatever the heck they want.

Antek718

They asked the producer what he had to go through before Microsoft agreed to release "Ketsui" and "Do Donpachi".

So it's only saying Microsoft rejected the idea at first, since Ketsui and Do Donpachi already got release dates.

This is only a smart move if they want to break the Japanese Market. 360's games are aimed at hard-core gamers (that plays a certain types of games) in Japan and don't have a game that has mass appeal, if they are gonna stop with this, there is really no point at the direction 360 is taking in Japan.

But yeah, Microsoft IS going to release arcade shooters, this was just a interview of the "process" getting there.

Dir_en_grey

@RemyDuvalle: The revamping of old games is one of the few positive things I have to say about XBL to be honest; it's a great idea. That Prince of Persia remake looked awesome.

Still, it'll never be enough to make me 'Jump in' to cylon-controlled New Caprica (or XBL).

ErskinPig

Good job MS.

Good job indeed.

Witzbold

I still don't have:
1)Simpsons the Arcade Game
2)X-men the arcade game
3)Turtles in Time

I want those before they decide to pull the plug on arcade ports.

And if I can't have them for 360 then I'm going to find a way to bring down this whole "Xbox Live Arcade."

Kanik

XBLA looks like the perfect place to see if MS is already competing with you.

SaintWaldo

Go figure, they give the crap-tacular Frogger remake the green light, and turn down an amazing bullet hell schmup.

Unreal, who is running things over on the XBLA team anyways? Wuss gamers?

Rubix42

I like the arcade ports, especially with the online.

Gon

I'm actually okay with this when it comes to classic arcade games.

However, if this prevents more Japanese-only shooters or other games that never made it to the US from coming, I'll be pissed.

Though, I agree that the revamped graphic versions of all the classic games is wack.

The only game that was enhanced that was actaully better than the original was JetPac Refuelled...

RemyDuvalle

You can't win, but there are alternatives to XBL.

ErskinPig

Maybe the games they wanted to port were just crap?

Cchrist

For the most part they've nailed it. I still regret buying Tempest though. It seems like all the Atari classics like Centepede and Millipede were funky for whatever reason.

edb87

"Xbox 360 Arcade". Figure it out.

NO MORE LAZER!

Translation: We're going to have Unfaithful arcade ports

LittleBigPlaneteer

I say MS better remedy this fast or lose face even more so in Japan.

Its damage control time people!

Witzbold

@smackthenun: Holy nonsense, batman!

Lemming To The Sea will bring home the turkey if you bring home the bacon

@Tepoz: Actually I bet on 2ch right now its a huge fucking anti MS flame war going on saying shit like MS has no tastes in games and other anti american stuff.

Kinda like how folks on US game forums will say the same about J rpgs and what not.

We could ask Muu if theres anything floating around on that, since hes got his fingers on the pulse of the J gaming scene from 2ch and all that.

Witzbold

I stopped buying XBLA arcade games after I bought pac man. And pac man champion edition came out a few weeks later for the same price.

lordargent

m$ are douchbags that don't understand the value of something of that nature being resourced to obtain new console owners....but having the audacity to mouth something like that to 5p when several of xbla titles are arcade ports

smackthenun

@excalibre: If you've been reading Witzbold's comments for awhile you would see he's very even handed concerning Microsoft, as well as Sony and Nintendo. This is why we nominated him Sherrif. Thing is, Microsoft is a corporation like any other corporation and they'll do things they "think" is in the best interest of their market. It's up to us 360 owners to slap their noses when they get too far out of range. In fact, it's time that 360 owners in Japan started making waves and taken control of their platform.

I would tell 360 owners in Japan to FLOOD THE FORUMS but I don't know culturally if that's acceptable. Who runs the 360 segment in Japan anyways?

Tepoz

@excalibre: Its basically the same shit they did with the original Xbox at getting folks to work on something then ditch it all together creating bad blood. Its why Level5 wont make anything for MS anymore unless there is some UNGODLY amount of cash they will shell out which I doubt MS will do.

You just dont know your history about MS and Japan. I do.

Its shit like this which caused so many J devs to avoid the 360 for the longest time, is becuase they didnt trust MS after the first Xbox. Now that devs seem to be working with them again for other companies in Japan hearing news like this isnt going to go well I say. Even more so that famitsu had the balls to actually publish such an anti-(anything) story due to how most media will always take a semi neutral stance and not really publish such stories that can damage relationships with another company.

Witzbold

A backlash against MS generally is sorely overdue.

[www.beastfag.com]
[www.beastfag.com]

ErskinPig

I guess they should try to do the same for Zune store, only one indie rock band, only two rappers, etc. Maybe on LIVE movie store? Only two action movies please, no, we don't want rest of the Star Wars saga, thank you, four movies of this genre is fine for our store. I just can't get my head around of what on earth are they thinking?

ara

@Witzbold:

Way to get fired up over something you don't even know is true or not. Basically this is just speculation. Cursing MS and saying they are refusing to change is just crap, because you really don't know the full situation. It could be just this game was not selected, or they chose to omit certain arcade elements.

It seems you've just used this entire story's comments to push a very anti-Microsoft sentiment. That would be fine if it was actually based on truths. But when you start using half-truths and speculation your arguments will never hold much ground.

excalibre

I personally think the "full of shit" comment freaked out a few execs over at Microsoft, but they need to remember who their market actually is and not lose focus just to win a few blog battles. Like Kanik said, I still want my old school arcade games. I also want my Ikari Warrior/Heavy Barrel/Aliens games and I want my shumps. I'm old-school so I never had a problem with XBLA. Hopefully they can find a medium in finding and promoting new innovative titles while trying not to pull a Sony and discouraging 2D gaming.

Tepoz

Im still banging my head on the desk at the sheer idiocy of MS taking steps backwards after all the movement they have been doing in the right direction reciently. :/

Witzbold

@boopadoo: I say its good that they go to the press since it causes pressure on MS from all the backlash that will follow.

Only when voices are heard that things can / will change.

Keeping silent solves nothing I say.

Hell Im suprised they even talked about it since Japan / the media in general prefers to no stir up trouble like this. Im guessing they must have been pretty pissed off if they really did talk about it.

Witzbold

It's good they're supporting more original content, but if someone wants to develop an arcade port then I don't think Microsoft should be rejecting it. I don't think many of the ports have been that bad either if you really had a fondness for the original. If there's no more ports then MS will be getting even less of my money than they do now.

MattB

We tried to have a game released on XBLA. The publisher had it all ready to go.. the MS came down with "another company is making a game in the same genre and we only want one game in this genre". We've never been told or seen this game being worked on by this mysterious company.

It's why indie devs are probably goint to start putting stuff up on WiiWare.

FyreWulff

I can see how this can easily turn into fanbait, but all console makers make requests to add features to software to differentiate it from a straight port. If there's nothing new to the game, then it will only draw an audience that is familiar with the title. You could call this exerting authority over a developer, but it's standard procedure when dealing with getting a game on a particular console.

It's not the best strategy for 5pb to go to the press with this. All it will result in is an awkward silence at their next MS presentation.

boopadoo

@Mr.Waffleton:
Dunno much about Ketsui, but I think Dodonpachi being a big name is exactly why it's not on XBLA. If it's a game that will sale, why release it as a budget download on XBLA and possibly drive down the price of the Disk Only release format.

The 2 games are confirmed for release anyway thus the feature in the 3/21 Famitsu and thus this post of the interview exists in the first place.
Ketsui: [www.famitsu.com]
DoDonpachi:[www.famitsu.com]

Both have an arcade perfect version PLUS a graphic update version included, Live support, AND Record and Replay mode plus extra!

Dir_en_grey

@HurricaneDave: Its MS doing what MS does best.

Burn fucking bridges.

To the ground.

And once again in Japan where its having "issues" as is.

Witzbold

@Mr.Waffleton: Well you cant spell "ignorant" without IGN.

Is what my mates and I always say. I never have / never will take those tits seriously.

Personally I HATE most reviewers of nowdays since they got some serious fucking attitude problems that is totally fucking up shit for the industry in general, with their shoddy writing.

Witzbold

Last time I checked I thought MS was supposed to provide a open marketplace, not act as the publisher for the game.

IF any studio wants to put any game on MS, as long as it is ESRB rated and Quality Control as far as how it is coded, I don't think MS should but in.

HurricaneDave

@bluesquareapple: That wouldnt really happen I think. Since the devs here like to release their own stuff À la carte. Its going to take an even bigger effort now to for MS to ask them to do such a thing after blowing them off with XBLA after they had gone through the trouble of obtaining the IP rights for the project.

Theres even less of a chance of them releasing it in the states since they feel that the scene for shooters and stuff isnt as strong as it is in the "hometurf" if you know what I mean.

Which is why XBLA would have been the best solution. Plus since there is no printing / pressing / packaging costs involved with digital media, which is what those companies need / want to cut back on.

Witzbold

Interesting. They create very successful online marketplace and prevent developers from selling games that people seem to buy and like. Excellent logic.

ara

@ibogost:

Yeah. I doubt they're that fast at reacting to popular internet opinion honestly. And I do think that the strategy you mentioned makes sense. I just hope they realize when they need to make exceptions.

Guitaratomik

by Witzbold at 01:51 PM Reply * Seeing some of the games on XBLA it makes me wonder if the folks who decide what goes in and stays out of the "system" have ANY tastes in games what-so-ever.

I don't think it's as much lack of taste as it is lack of experience with games. (ok who the hell am I kidding it's lack of taste too). I personally love the retro ports nad hope they keep them coming. Sure some ports could be better but a lot are spot-on, and I'm not jsut talking about the top-tier ports that got extensive updates like Pac Man CE, Jetpac (so underappreciated by XBLA palyers) and Prince of Persia. Even soem of the more pedestrial ports like smash TV are great. TMNT Arcade gave me hope for the service but they're shooting it down now.

But we can also blame reviewers for some of this too. Reviewers have been brutal to XBLA ports, like Trigger heart. The idiot who reviewed it at IGN said one of the things they didn't liek was it wasn't "well known". WTF? They review these games as if they're $60 retail titles.

Mr.Waffleton

@kiigan: What you posted makes no sense and is down right stupid.

Arcade ports sell, so clearly this is what the people want. Also how is limiting what consumers can access on your service going to help. MS already has a nice amount of people who will not buy anything from XBLA because of DRM issues, now they want to cut off a huge portion of XBLA buyers who buy Arcade ports, there is no logic at all in their stance.

There is no reason they can not divide the marketplace into two stores, Arcarde Ports and Original Titles, it is not like they are mutually exclusive. Instead they alienate a developer by refusing to allow them to post a title because it doesn't fit what THEY want, can you believe the gall they have to actually say some shit like that. The decision should never be what MS wants, it should be what the consumer wants, MS is going to get their money either way, why should they care what games are put on XBL.

I just don't understand where they are coming from, but I know what the result will be, and that is going to be them falling into 3rd place.

HurricaneDave

@Dir_en_grey: Because to the average consumer a game that is just a "shooting game" that can be played on a whim in the arcade for 100 yen does not seem like a worthy purchase at the price of 6500 yen, even more so when Japans economy isnt exactly in tip top shape.

As stated before its only really the hardcore players who will be buying it in the first place. Hardly numbers that would be making back production costs Id say, once again even more so that its on the J 360.

Witzbold

Wasn't the #1 game on XBLA the 1989 TMNT arcade game?

HeyApples

@Dir_en_grey:
Oh and these games are hardly "retro" to be on XBLA anyway. One's a 2002 and the other 2003, both popular arcade releases. I don't see why people in Japan would rage over paying full price over a legitimately good game that's fairly new and never got ported.

PS: Oh besides record and replay mode, seems like you can switch between the classic and re-mastered graphics in-game whenever you want too! =)

Dir_en_grey

@kiigan: And clearly arcade ports aren't selling.

....oh, wait. That's what these devs are complaining about. They are selling cause their original crap is still crap. Give me an original game with some quality and I'll friggin buy it.

And who assumed that if they cut out the arcade ports that original titles will fall out of the sky each and every week? I'll tell you what will happen: more match-three casual rip-offs of the same junk.

Edge of Blade

@Dir_en_grey: That and in Japan folks are not exactly running out and buying a shitload of games not like the old days, so it will take some major convincing for folks to be buying hard copies of older games. So more only the hardcore crowd will be picking those up anyways. Even more so that its on the 360 the sales will be even less than if it was on the PS2 for example due to the userbase numbers being so small.

If they had worked on getting it out as DLC it can at least give the dev a chance to maximize their potential profit margin with the least amount of "production" costs due to the subtraction of packaging, pressing, printing, other fees that go with "hard copy" games.

Witzbold

@Witzbold: Ah!

Tepoz

@kiigan: I guess this where the split in in the Xbox community is at. Old-school vs new-school.

Tepoz

@Dir_en_grey: A tone like that about frustration is the Japanese way of being anti something. Since you should know this since you "seem" cultured in the ways of the Japanese people that they do not outright show discontent, but this is a prime example of their way of showing anti-ms sentiment in a written piece.

Witzbold

@Tepoz: I should say official Xbox forums since that's how we do it on this side of the pond. Flaming happens everywhere but when your own customers are flaming you, then they start to listen.

It's time for Japanese 360 owners to flood the Xbox Live forums!

Tepoz

@Tepoz: The thing is though and I know MS Japan / Japanese game companies know that the majority of their userbase comes from there since thats where all the hardcore gamers and such hang out / communicate.

Granted not everything is going to be flamewars that basically one of the "hidden" voices of Japan in a sense. 2ch that is. Since so many people go there to talk about various things.

That and in Japan in general there are not that many normal "forums" in the sense of US gaming sites and what not.

Witzbold

I really feel like the naysayers are driving Arcade into the ground. This could be the beginning of the end. There is a lot of value in arcade ports. Gaming is more than just 14 year old boys who pwn noobs and demand original games. People need to recognize when they can't see beyond their own experience.

Edge of Blade

The last thing XBLA needs is more retro conversions. It certainly doesn't need retro conversions of niche Japanese shoot-em-ups that only a handful of enthusiasts will ever even be aware of. Frankly, a strategic rethink of XBLA is absolutely to be welcomed at this point. Enough of the arcade ports, enough of the tat, enough allowing publishers to dump their half-baked back-catalogue junk onto the platform.

It is time for some changes. XBLA needs to offer something genuinely of value - creative, accessible, original, platform exclusive software that is better than the alternatives. The alternative is to sink into further irrelevance. Clearly, gamers don't want the vast majority of the crap on XBLA. No one else does either. WiiWare promises more creative, original offerings, and XBLA needs to change its approach to compete or risk being disregarded as a haven for ignorable tat and retro rubbish.

Commissioning more retro shooter conversions at this stage would be a fundamental error of judgement for XBLA. It is about time we get a sense that someone at Microsoft was actually managing XBLA instead of just letting publishing partners do whatever the hell they want. If Japanese developers want to get their stuff on XBLA, they'll just have to match their game submissions to fit the strategic goals Microsoft has (as platform owner) for the platform. The same is true for any platform.

kiigan

@Witzbold: Well, flame wars really don't accomplish anything and it's usually owners of other consoles that get involved. I want 360 owners in Japan in Xbox forums to go all out. That's the way to do it.

Tepoz

@Witzbold:
I don't think this is a "anti-(anything) story" since it's just a creator's interview at a small section at the bottom of a page; and the "frustration" part is only part of the interview anyway. I'm sure fans will be happy now that the game's got extra content and the whole story ends up in Microsoft's favor in that "The big M was right".

Famitsu is giving both games full page covers, and these games are definitely gonna give more 360 more spotlight and boost sales in Japan as a full new game in disk format rather than just a download of the original rom.

Dir_en_grey

Ketsui and DDP:DOJ BL getting XBLA ports were probably our only hope of getting these in the states. Now forced to import a 360 (which I wouldn't do).

It's a shame so many people will miss out on a couple of the best vertical STGs ever made.

skink

@Strange Bedfellows: Yeah, an RS port on PSN would definitely move the PS3 purchase up to the top of my priority list ;)

DaiMacculate

@Witzbold: 2ch certainly came out victorious against Gainax. I'd like to see them go after MS.

MattB

@Witzbold: A pleasure to read your voice of reason, here. I agree wholeheartedly with everything you said in this post, and I'm not just saying that to be a suck up! This is something that's bothered me about MS for a little while now. I've noticed an inordinate number of games that were to be published by Microsoft come out shitty or just plain not come out at all. I think that those Cave shooters, in particular, should have been released online and not in retail. They've released a lot of schlock on XBLA, and now they're going to start cutting back on who they license, even if it means preventing real quality from being available? Unfortunate. I for one have enjoyed the ports on XBLA far, far more than any of the original material.

@DaiMacculate: I agree. I'll be right there with you on the frontlines. Radiant Silvergun needs to be a downloadable title, if not on XBLA, then on PSN!

Strange Bedfellows

I really people understand what "faithful arcade port" really means. Chances are it's like Wii ports.

okenny :)

@kiigan:

Really? I guess that's why every single topic on Major Nelson and Gamerscore Blog regarding XBLA, as well as XBLA topic here ALWAYS generate and endless amount of "Where is Ikaruga" posts then huh? Seriously get a clue, if only a niche group will be interested why is Ikaruga so sought after? After all it's one of those "niche Japanese shoot em ups".

Also if retro ports are bad then why is it they ARE outselling the "new stuff"? Yes it's due in part to the fact that most said new stuff is utter shovelware trash but also because people DO like those games. A lot of people.

Get a clue dude, there's more to the gaming industry than the newest FPS. Millions of people still love the retro stuff. Why? Because it's good. Tons of new stuff is good and there were some good new XBLA titles but even MS's own Awards showed people overwhelmingly prefer retro ports.

Mr.Waffleton

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I think that XBLA likes to offer more than your average port. Online-multiplayer, refreshed graphics in addition to classic modes, leader boards, voice, and match making. Even new levels wouldn't hurt. What you want is to give people who love these games a reason to own them again through XBLA in addition to a new audience discovering them. A new audience is not enough to validate the development costs probably. If developers can't approach these titles from the perspective of them being a remake then it seems like a bad idea to even bother.

okenny :)

@Witzbold:
I dunno, but I think this is a good move for Microsoft in Japan. Having these 2 games, Raiden Fighter Aces like you mentioned, Ikaruga, Senkou no Ronde and there might be even more that I'm not aware of, marketing these as real "legit" games instead of a download like "XEVIOUS", can really make 360 be known as the 2D shooter powerhouse machine in Japan and secure the "core" crowd.

If they keep on releasing these type of games like Mushihime Sama or Shikigami no Shiro for example, I really do see them pushing more 360's in Japan cuz not all arcades still keep older 2 or 3 year old games since they tend to try to make room for others.

Japanese Economy hasn't been effecting the game market in Japan since people there just save up money to buy up what they like anyway. The "Otaku" culture is more normalized (一般化？) now since they realized everybody is a maniac about something and alot just dedicate their whole spendings to it.

What's main stream and big in US like Halo and Gears just don't work for main stream Japan, so 360's gotta pick up little bits of "core" gamers here and there. It could be known as the RPG/Anime game machine, First/Third Person Shooter Machine, and now 2d Shooter Machine. If 360 continues to be strong at each little "core" group they aim at, it will definitely add up since the likes of genres are connected and gives people more reasons to buy a 360 in Japan.

Having it disk format also lets the people that don't have the system know that the game exists at all, and you can market it more than just a download. I think most people here today are piss more because they think there's gonna be no release at all instead of pissed at a Disk Only release anyway.

So that's why I think it's a legit and understandable move for Microsoft. Although this is like Dreamcast was known to "core" groups as THE Fighting Game Machine, THE 2D shooter machine, and later the "porn" machine when it was dying... So how well would 360 do taking the directing in Japan? I dunno, but it's better than doing nothing and just release random games here and there that US "thinks" the Japanese likes. If you are gonna do it, make it strong I say.

Dir_en_grey

I'd give MS the "BONEHEAD" achievement award.

Sweet Tooth

I hope all this comes back and bites MS in the ass. I was overwhelmed with joy after hearing that the 360 was getting cave shooters even though I really suck at them. Hearing the reason why they're not giving the green flag pisses me of so much.

Why should I be mad when the games are still going to be released but just in a different format? When game publishers/developers and the console manufacture get in a tussle, we the gamers get shafted. It doesn't matter if its retro or original content, the developer is just going to put their resources somewhere else. Bad relations = bad business = screwed gamers.

What I fear even more is that these games will have less of a chance to released outside japan. That leaves the only hope of ever playing it is if 5pb doesn't region lock the game because I'd never take the chance and import an xbox 360 w/o warranty.

calpis

@Dir_en_grey:

I hope you're right dude. I think more quality Cave shooters would be very welcome on XBLA.

@Mr.Waffleton:
Agreed! On both your points.

There's a lot of crap on XBLA - more than I ever thought when I first heard about the serivce. And there's no harm in adding historically quality titles. Although it would be nice to have gfx and sounds revamped like SSF2THD, not all need to be (see DoDonPachi).

dudeman5000

I'm not exactly pleased to be denied some cave shooters ... there is a reason people aren't buying some of the crap on there -- it's crap.

jayntampa

So, can someone get an interview with Takashi Sensui and find out if 'We are going to cut down faithful arcade ports.' means we are not going to see anymore retro games that myself and others would love to be on XBLA like the ones we have mentioned before?

Here's the deal, there's a huge number of gamers that bought 360's because of Street Fighter II:Hyper Fighting, an arcade classic. Hell, Dead or Alive 4 joysticks had to be imported from Japan because we bought them out everywhere in America. It was us old curmudgeon gamers that made XBLA a success. Are our tastes no longer important?

Tepoz

@kiigan: I knew it was a joke post when you dissed Undertow.

Ryan Saotome

I think there is a place for ports of arcade "classics". games where there is a certain nostalgia in playing with those crappy graphics. The games mentioned in the article dont fit into that genre per-se as they are basically unkown to most people outside of Japan. Im guess they would need to gussy up the graphics to get approved for XBLA.

pb00

Sakari, come to the Wii. We'll love you like nobody else can.

Robotube

Well, that is a real bummer... I sure hope those titles find thier way to consoles some other way. I guess there are no SHUMP fans at the XBLA office.. :P

You never know though, they might change thier minds. ^^

-MegaMako

MegaMako

@Witzbold: there is some crap being spewed out about this, but since the anti-MS crowd is busy covering up their asses over other fallouts on their own system, it hasn't really snowballed to anything of size. From what I've read these types of shooters only sell ~5000 copies or so to begin with, so with core shooters making their way and cheap as hell development costs (can't believe they used that many people to do the ports, considering even a rewrite like Exelica was done by a small team), I wouldn't be surprised if these projects actually ARE making them a profit.

While I do like the $10 shooters on XBLA, I'm all for what they've done in terms of turning away direct ports -- do too much of those and you end up turning Live Arcade into another VC affair. Now they just need to keep better new content coming out...

muu

I like original arcade games just fine, but there are too many lousy ones on Live Arcade. I'd rather see ports of good arcade games. And fix the damn d-pad.

CyberSkull

just bring dat shit on PS3!

nopposan

@muu:
You went here: [news24.2ch.net] right?

"Ketsui, Dodonpachi getting 360 release" 2ch thread:

While most people are just happy for the announcement of releasing on next gen system, and asking for more shooters, seems to me there are legit talks of not wanting to play the games on a 360 controller, and why there are no PS3 release since it has bigger user base in Japan.

There are talks over making or importing an arcade stick and talks of if a new arcade stick will be released with Soul Calibur 4, since the 360 Hori Stick seems to be sold out in Japan.

Talks of many people willing to buy DoDonpachi again even if they owned the PS2 version that was released in 2003 (360 is a black-lable special edition, that will have both original non-lable & black-lable arranged, and upgraded & original switchable graphics and background, play-back mode, download content/icons/themes). Seems like this is a big title game and considered the best Cave shooter that many people will buy the game just for collectible purposes.
The PS2 edition is still around at $50 start USED on [www.amazon.co.jp]

Ketsui was scheduled for PS2 but it was canceled so this will be the first time coming to console. This is a 2003 arcade release on the same arcade board as Dodonpachi Daiousei that we are talking about.

There are some mentioning of while they are happy 360 is getting girl sim games and many shooters, they are afraid since it's the same route as the end of Sega.

Out of 407 posts so far only like 2 people cared about the price, and many are happy it's getting a package release and getting a graphics upgrade. While there are few questions on if this will be a Packaged or Download release, so far only like 3 people out of the 407 posts bitched about MS's "We are cutting back on arcade ports on XBLA", since I think most people know these 2 games are too great of a title to be a budget release to begin with anyway.

Dir_en_grey

@Dir_en_grey:
Oh and in that Producer interview in Famitsu, he said he port the game to 360 over other systems because it is his favorite system. So I think that takes care of any Anti-microsoft themes or whatnot as mentioned.

Also in 2ch there are some mentioning of Ketsui is for gays because of there's homo-erotic themes? I have no idea if that's true though =)

Dir_en_grey

I am not to upset about this as I am upset there isn't allot of those cool indie games on xbla. But maybe MS doesn't want to be a melting bot of rehashed 8-bit arcade games.

JorgieX

What? The arcade stuff on XBLA is 90% awful and overpriced, with the exception of some remakes. The quality has gone up from the likes of Frogger, though, but still.

I welcome this move from MS. I'm tired of seeing that emulated Digital Eclipse crap. To clarify, I do not oppose remakes of arcade classics, but crappy emulated ports should never have entered the service in the first place.

kryo

I could give a shit less what their strategy is, especially since many of the "new IPs" are just copies of retro games anyway (Geometry Wars=Robotron, as good as it may be) All I want are retro arcade ports with online play.

I'll buy the occasional Live Arcade original title, but I want more Neo Geo games, more shooter, and more ports from older consoles.

Maybe if they haven't fucked up the organization on the dashboard so badly with their most recent redesign, it would seem so cluttered and shitty. The addition of the original marketplace blade was good, but that 2nd redesign they did really made it annoying.

Billkwando

@Billkwando:

Sorry:

"Maybe if they hadn't fucked up the organization on the dashboard so badly with their most recent redesign, it wouldn't seem so cluttered and shitty."

Another thing, what's with M$ and their "plug pulling"?

First they "pull the plug" on backwards compatibility updates, and now they want to "pull the plug" on retro ports?

Sorry, but Yie Ar Kung Fu OWNS. Fatal Fury OWNS. If they keep putting out these classics at an attractive price point, they will keep selling. I agree with the person who said that they just need to divide the XBLA into a port category and a "newIP" category. This way, their precious new "babies" won't get lost in the shuffle, and I can glance at them, nod, and continue waiting for Samurai Shodown II.

Billkwando