If I want a Blu-Ray player, I'll buy a PS3, something about purchasing hardware for my 3rd refurbished 360, doesn't sit well with me.

Iceking5

"As we have stated, games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster game available."

Yes, but as those games grow in size and scope, you'll need a storage medium larger than conventional DVDs, and, IMHO, this is the factor that will hand the victory trophy to Sony. If they had bundled the HD-DVD drive in the 360, instead of that ridiculous add-on, this wouldn't even be an issue right now.

Sasquatch

@illmatic291: i must not have heard about the same games as you have that are supposed to come out for the PS3...far as i remember there are only like 3 big exclusives planned for the PS3 this year. And if thats the case they will certainly not dominate in "content", also considering that one of the likely big sellers for the PS3 isnt going to have as much content as the 360 version(if you cant guess the game then your retarded) i would be willing to wager that Microsoft will still sell more "Content" this year...PS3's might sell more hardware but i doubt they will outsell the 360's games.

Rastaman4200

"As we have stated, games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster game available."

This guy sounds like Hitler. The more you keep saying something, the more people will believe it. They need to 'unconvince' themselves now.

Books

@PearceShea: It wouldn't support games. Just movies.

Mark Wilson

@Necroscope:

yup. good point.

tictoctom

It's funny that in the Digitimes article, dated 4/2/08, it says, at the bottom, that Microsoft told them that they "..does not comment on market rumors."

Why wouldn't MS just tell them that the story is totally false? Interesting...

kagai

@tictoctom: "I bought a PS3 for the BR. Haven't even played a game on it yet. I'm sure there are lots of people doing the exact same thing. That's not good news for MS."

That would not be good news for Sony either! Since they lose money on each PS3 sold and expect to make it up on game sales. That is, unless you buy a shit ton of (sony studio) blue discs.

Necroscope

man, people just cant let go of this rumor

busy

A few possibilities(in order of likelihood):

- Blu-Ray add on drive ala HD-DVD
- "Super Elite" model with Blu-Ray for movies, wifi
- "360-1.5" freshens model line with Blu-Ray drives for movie playback and built in wi-fi on Pro and Elite
- "Xbox 720" announcement
- Blu-Ray drive added for movie and game content added across line

aka Bitter

@peAr_nectAr: orly? I think I'd have a PS3 now if it wasn't $599 at launch

TheHun

I just can't see how this would make sense. A Blu-Ray peripheral might work, but we're talking about a rather massive design shift if, as the DigiTimes article seems to indicate, there will be a 360 SKU with the Blu-Ray drive built into it. Not only does that present conceptual and design problem (I presume- wouldn't it be quite tricky to "port" a game designed to run on the old 360 over to a "Blu-Ray 360"?).

More to the point, I fail to see the economic advantage to Microsoft. Despite the fact that Blu-Ray has significantly aided PS3 console sales I still can't fathom the notion that a significant percentage of the people who owns a 360 would by a PS3 _just for the Blu-Ray drive_. If this is some sort of super-aggressive move on MS's part to stymie the PS3's share in the Blu-Ray player market, then I would be shocked. It's certainly not in the interest of the consumer: the 360 still has a considerable failure rate and the console itself doesn't have the projected longevity of the PS3 (that is, we will see a 720 before we see a PS4); more to the point, they would be throwing money away in an effort to hurt a rival's share in a, frankly, relativly niche market.

PearceShea

MGS4 NOT on 360 CONFIRMED.

nopposan

Well considering this year the PS3 will dominate game content wise this is another HUGE blow towards the 360.

illmatic291

@Losbullitt: put it on the floor. place a sleeping bag on top of it. leave it turned on. it will be dead by morning.

Derigor

A blue Xbox 360 shell like that would actually be really sweet. That looks great.

Doomstalk

MS would never reveal that a BR SKU was in the works. Because anyone who is considering buying a 360, will wait. And all of that existing inventory would be a huge loss to swallow.

I bought a PS3 for the BR. Haven't even played a game on it yet. I'm sure there are lots of people doing the exact same thing. That's not good news for MS.

tictoctom

Best way to hurt Blu-ray? Stick it in the Xbox 360 and they all RRoD.

However, there are so many idiots out there that would buy their 10th Xbox 360, after the first nine RRoDed. The 10th time, this person would blame Blu-ray.

That leads to another question.

When will my 360 crap out on me? If it does, can I opt for that Blu-ray drive?

Losbullitt

Screw Blue-Ray...DVD2 all the way.

The New York Times makes it sound like it's bigger than sliced bread.

Kanik

"..we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster game available."

Only ONE game?

And the paragraph is spin...since they may be making something OTHER than a 360 (future rename). And likely, I can see the external BluRay being more profitable (as a MSRP $199 USB addon) rather than integrated until they get better volume pricing.

Sony bluray supply channel constraint FTW!

SigmundTheSeaMonster

Microsoft is already contradicting themselves. There was a ton of comments made by them that said they were all for consumer choice (hence the core/arcade/pro/elite/halo3 sku mess, wireless optional, etc), and this included HD content. I'm sure there are statements either by Major Nelson, or someone else on his podcast a while back stating they would make a Blu-Ray external drive if there was consumer demand for it.

I guess that statement should have been "Well, HD-DVD is on top now, so sure, we can say something pie in the sky like we will support Blu-Ray if it wins. But we mean that as a joke anyhow. When we tuck our tails between our legs after HD-DVD dies, we are going to act like we never said the 360 was about anything more then just games."

*sigh*

drakino

Not for the X360... but for the X720 yay!

Garo

So, no Lite-On is not manufacturing the drive, but someone else might be! "THIS JUST IN, SOMEONE OTHER THAN LITE-ON TO MANUFACTURE BLU-RAY DRIVES FOR NEW XBOX360!"

Heyyou27

Do you really think that a company would spoil it´s sales of another product by releasing it´s development news before the new one is already ready to sale?

Wyld

Ooh that photoshopped 360 would be pretty snazzy if it were real.

t0yrobo

"As we have stated, games are what are driving consumers to purchase game consoles and we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster game available."

Yeah, but, I'm pretty sure being a Blu-Ray player hasn't hurt the PS3's sales. Microsoft is being rather stubborn about this.

peAr_nectAr

Notice they didn't deny the idea of Xbox 360 Blu-ray drives, just that Lite-On was not the one manufacturing them....

RogerWilco

Boy, this can only end badly. Either DigiTimes is bullshitting big time, or Lite-On needs the publicity and states these false facts, or Microsoft is a big fat liar.

Internet? Ready, CHOOSE!

Candlejack

That's silly, the blu-ray drive, unless the person is a home entertainment aficionado, would make the 360 the 2nd tier choice for a player, if not the deciding factor to choose it over the PS3. Then again, the 360's hardware woes would make the PS3 my premier choice for a blu-ray player. Not to mention that my PS3 has a hardware problem too, but it's not as prevalent as my 360's, which I'm still waiting to return from Microsoft.

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

@Necroscope: They'll probably make more on winning the HD format war than they have from the PlayStation line combined. From the standpoint of having one more Blu-Ray player out there, his PS3 purchase is a big win

Doomstalk

@Blah-Blah-Blah: "the huge storage space for games is what makes it all worth while. MGS4 will prove that in spades."

We'll see. MGS4 will be great, but is all of that space is being used to make the game that much bigger in size and scope- or is it used as an almost limitless ceiling for uncompressed game assets and audio? I mean, MGS4 doesn't look that much better than other games, and barely a few of us have the gear to take advantage of the uncompressed audio.

I haven't seen anything that proves to me that BD storage capacity is that big of a deal. Yet.

Madeira

@Madeira: @Iceking5: Blue Dragon? Metal Gear Solid 4? Gran Turismo 5?

slomo788

@Necroscope: Sony is not in the red anymore for PS3. They cut prices in half weeks ago.

slomo788

I personally do not believe there is a large demand for a BR add-on. There wasn't for the HD-DVD add-on, why would there be for BR? Besides, why should MS parrot Sony? Why don't they put a firm stake in the multimedia center war by seriously pushing digital downloads.

Well, maybe to do that they would need to offer terabyte drives for $50.

@SigmundTheSeaMonster: "..we remain focused on providing the largest library of blockbuster game available."

'Only ONE game?'

Freudian slip. He means Halo. Just kidding!

gozirah

Space Limitation is not an issue I see in this generation of games, the only games that are really going to need to top over a standard dvd game, are games with way too many pre rendered videos

Iceking5

@Sasquatch: GTA4 fits on one DVD, I'd say that's pretty big in size and scope. DVD storage capacity is not a factor, much less what will hand Sony a 'victory trophy'.

Madeira

I still maintain that since a Blu Ray drive would never be used for games on the 360 it renders the idea basically useless. Blu Ray movies on PS3 are great. HD rocks, but the huge storage space for games is what makes it all worth while. MGS4 will prove that in spades. 50GB worth of space for games is awesome. Game devs are not limited for space in any way. On the 360 it would only be ever used for movies.

Blah-Blah-Blah

With a denial that weak the rumors must be true.

MattB

Also if Sega has taught us anything, drive add-ons are always a failure. Developers are complaining about the fact that they have 3 consoles to make games for, this would make it 4 and if developers aren't even using the harddrives for thier crossplatform games, I doubt they will spend extra time filling up the blu-ray with meaninful content.

So it's clear that a blu-ray addon doesn't do anything for the 360 game wise, it'll probablly just be a movie player like the HD-addon (nothing to do with games).

LordNova

"games are what are driving consumers"

Enough said. It doesn't matter if this is just a PR blabbering or not - it's simply the truth. A console can have wonderful mutlimedia fucntions but in the end it's the GAMES that make a good console.

What I just need is a wide range of GAMES. Bluray has close to nothing to do with the quality of games.

Nexus-6

@Candlejack: Can I choose a little of everything?

eskimo-bob

MGS4 and Final Fantasy need blu-ray so they can output those huge FMVs at 1080p resolution. Other then that the storage of the blu-ray isn't needed if you're just going to have ingame cinimatics and don't mind listening to 5.1 surround sound (who has a 7.1 system anyways?).

In fact that Blu-ray vs DVD issue is more an issue depending on what style of game you want to make. Western games tend to milk the storyline through in game cinimatics which take less time to make and cost less (while taking up less disc space). Japanese games tend to have alot of extra eye candy with less repeating assets in a level and alot move FMVs and in a world of HD, FMVs take up alot of space.

Honestly though if Microsoft really wanted to counter the Blu-Ray size advantage they should just have manual installs for games (which they won't due to that horrible arcade unit... damn you arcade unit). See Lost Oddyssy(sp) could just be 2 disc, a data(install disc) and a cinimatic disc(play disc) but instead of going that route they went with 4 DVDs which the only reason I can see that the game is 4 disc is due to all those FMV moments.

So the big advantage the PS3 has isn't the Blu-ray drive(in fact it's more of a weakness for gaming due to it's slow streaming speed which is why most PS3 games require that install now, I'm almost 100% sure GTA4 will require some type of install unless they did what the oblivion guys did and copy the game twice on the disc). The fact that all units have a hard-drive and Microsoft/developers refuse to make a game on the 360 that requires a harddrive. In many ways this hurts PS3 owners as well since crossplatform games aren't going to require a harddrive either which means the only way you can use the PS3's advantages is through first party (same can be said about all consoles really).

LordNova

A while ago they were committed to giving consumers the 'choice' of how to watch movies. Not so anymore?

superbabyproject

Microsoft didn't say they werent making a bluray drive in that statement, they just said Lite-On isnt making it...

Interesting...

SnprSlick

Let's not forget:
[kotaku.com]
[multiplayerblog.mtv.com]

Tepoz

@Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_More_attention

"The casual gamer wants a free Blu-Ray player included which with Sony's pricepoint, is now the case."

Exactly

DevonTheDude

Smart job Microsoft you defy modern business practices. They teach you to diversify your investments, Sony did that with the PS3 and it's beginning to pay off.

Non-gamers are buying PS3's for Blu-ray which is an untapped market segment that normally doesn't buy games and or game consoles, just like the Wii Sony can probably turn a descent portion of this market into casual gamers (a huge portion of the gaming market) or first time gamers. Now Sony can exploit this new market along with Nintendo while MS sits back and twiddles their thumbs wondering what happened to their market share.

If you were a parent looking to get HD (Disney) movies for your family and satisfy your children's thirst for video games (almost all kids play video games these days) why not buy a PS3, it's all in one and a better deal overall over a 360. The parents of the kids may get into games they never would have thought they would play (Rockband is a perfect example).
I own both consoles and both HD disc mediums (Blu and HDdvd). I am a hardcore gamer but the hardcore gaming demographic is small and seems to becoming the niche market for video games, while the causal market is growing rapidly. How is the 360 gonna hook parents into buying the console when the 360 has no value to a non-gaming parent, the parent would likely buy the PS3 specifically for Blu and a small percentage of those PS3 sales (to only watch Blu-ray movies) would become casual gamers.

Microsoft, why do you always screw yourself with your arrogance, Apple seemed to learn a lot (not completely from their arrogance) and has become a power in the computing field again. Sony did it at the launch of the PS3 and that arrogance quickly went away in 6 months when console sales dropped significantly after Fall 06'. It seems that since MS is on top in the US for next gen console sales that they are becoming smug about their product.

Anyone saying that digital downloading is going to prevail in 4 years needs to realize that at least 1/2 of the US doesn't have the internet and at least 1/4 or more only have dial-up (very practical for HD downloads). MS you also have to realize that Sony owns a sh*t load of content; Sony Pictures, Columbia Tristar, MGM, Television (mainly Columbia, i.e. Seinfeld), and Epic/BMG/Sony records. What content do you own Microsoft, NOTHING. PS enjoy d/l a 50GB movie on live with your 20gb HDD. MS needs to cut the price of the 120GB HDD big time ($130?!) if they expect the Live video marketplace to even do well. It seems that the Blu-ray / digital downloading war is very similar to VHS and Laser Disc. Neither Laser disc or VHS are considered a failure, they were both around for about 25 years each (DVD isn't close to that still, it came out in 95') but both survived until DVD was widely adopted. One (Laser) was all about video quality (410i), features, and pristine digital sound quality (PCM uncompressed sound, unheard of back then) while the VHS was mass produced and quality was the least important selling feature (recording was one of the main features, resolution was 210i). Movie enthusiasts and niche customers who wanted higher quality out of their entertainment centers bought Laser and average consumers bought VHS, hence how both stayed around for a while. The same seems to be true for digital downloading, both formats can co-exist, one is about quality and the other is about ease of convenience. Show me a native 1080p movie download on live, there is NONE they are all 720p and upscaled to 1080i/p and the audio is just old Dolby, no DTS / DTSHD / Dolby True HD / Uncompressed audio bitstream or PCM.

If Microsoft is so confident about digital downloading why are no 360 games (non-arcade) available as a download, only in disc format. Sony knows that you need to get both physical media and downloadable games to the consumer, just look at Warhawk (soon GT5 prologue and Socom Confrontation) it was sold as both a download and in retail stores. PS enjoy trying to return / sell / trade digitalally downloaded media, you are SOL buddy.
If you think they cant co-exist, Home Media Magazine (a trade publication) has an interesting article about the two formats and how they can co-exist.

Digital Copy (out now, DVD to Ipod) and Portable Copy (Blu-ray to PSP, coming soon) is going to also impact digital downloading sales too.

What a rant, huh?

DevonTheDude

Blu Ray for the 360 is FUD.

The End.

DARTH_TIGRIS

I love when they actually do comment on rumour and speculation!!!!

Basscadet

I thought this was just an april fools joke, but after hearing MS's lawyer-like response it might be for real. Obviously they're not going to admit it and ruin the surprise.

cybereality

@LordNova:

There isn't one game I have that really outputs on the PS3 at 1080p. They're all uprezzed. If you look at the back of the PS3 game box you often see 720p

Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention

I hate to disagree with Microsoft, but as an owner of both consoles, two of my friends have bought PS3's over 360 simply because of Blu-Ray. Period.

The casual gamer wants a free Blu-Ray player included which with Sony's pricepoint, is now the case.

Come on Microsoft, put aside your pride and get a Blu in there!

Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention

@Doomstalk

Dude the top selling Blu-ray disc (other than 300) is a Disney movie dude, you would be surprised how many parents want Disney movies in HD for them and their kids. Also the majority of Blu-ray retail kiosks are focused on Disney / Buena Vista movies.

Don't forget about the digital switch in Feb 09' more people are going to buy HDTV's and get programming via HD cable or satellite providers. Those people who adopt HD television are likely to come to Blu a lot sooner than you expect. When you watch HD programming, ESPECIALLY sports, making the switch back to standard looks like crap in comparison. It's like watching DVD for years and then watching a VHS, it is an unbelievable difference in quality that you don't notice till you watch the older format. I watch a lot of sports, watching in HD gets you spoiled about quality. Once you get HD and have to watch standard b/c something isn't televised in HD you'll be pissed, trust me.

You know Sony was criticized for putting DVD into the PS2 right, game companies said that they would never need the disc space, and that experts said that the DVD player drove up the price of the console too much, DVD was just beginning to become widely adopted at that time (about 5 years after the launch of DVD) when the standalones were about $300-400 bucks. This sounds oddly familiar to the PS3 and Blu huh?

PS: I have seen 1080p 40" LCD HDTV's at Costco for $950, thats cheap for a 40" full hd set.

By the way, the Wii doesn't play DVD movies b/c Nintendo didn't want to pay the licensing fee for DVD video, otherwise I would agree about your comment about the Wii.

DevonTheDude

@TheHun: PS3 sales are up, and prices are down. A lot of people who want a Blu-Ray player end up getting a PS3 because it's cheaper and has more to it. I'm just saying, for MS to say that they will be able to rely solely on their games for much longer is just plain ignorant. Their only market seems to be the UK and the US, and they will soon lose out in both (hell, they already are in England, I believe) if they don't do something to compete with the PS3's multimedia capabilities.

peAr_nectAr

A re-launch / re-branding of the Elite could see this actually happening. Elite console sales have come to a crawl since the only benefit over the pro ($100 cheaper) is the HDD's 120GB size, HDMI was exclusive, now even the arcade sku has HDMI. The only other benefit is that the console is black. I worked for Gamestop this past winter where our store sold maybe one the entire Christmas season, we pushed the Pro much more. If a new Elite comes out it could have Wi-fi, there was a lot of argument against the Elite not having it in the first place, and Blu-ray. That would make the extra $100 worth it to get wi-fi and Blu-ray movie playback in the 360 along with the 120GB HDD, that way MS can help get more people using the live marketplace since their space isn't limited by the HDD.

DevonTheDude

@DevonTheDude: If you're a parent looking to get Disney movies, you're probably going to wonder why you need to spend $2000 on a TV, and $500 on a player to watch the same movie that plays in SD on your current TV with a $30 DVD player. In all honesty, those people, if they want a console at all, will probably just forgo HD, and buy a Wii. By the time high definition movies become the standard, this console generation will be almost, if not completely, done. Putting Blu-Ray in the PS3 was an interesting tactic, and it may pay off for Sony, but I doubt it will ever become the driving force of their sales.

Doomstalk

@Books: Microsoft's PR dept. is the new "Baghdad Bob." A lot of folks don't seem to realize just how much of a blow HD-DVD failing as a format was to them.

Redriadrum

@Pay_Me_Or_Pay_Me_No_Attention: The gameplayer res is 720p but I'm positive the cinimatics are done at a 1080p naitive, if not than what the hell are developers going to fill the Blu-ray with anyways? I mean it really is like the SegaCD problem. Oh sure there is more space but the machine is still a 16-bit machine and doesn't need Cd space so stick the game full of WAV audio and pointless FMVs.

@DevonTheDude: And despite what all the analysis say, you go the average person on the street and they don't know 2 things about HD, infact most think digital broadcasting IS HD. HD TV sales are going to go up but I think the huge bulk of those sales aren't due to quality models (IE 42 Plasma or 62LCDLED ect...), the bulk of those sales are going to go into small 32"-22" LCD displays at 720p max and families are just going to buy it to save space or replace the older TV. Then again because the average consumer is so ignorant when it comes to HDTV they might believe that they need a blu-ray player on such rubbish TVs. I mean look at the deal you just mention about the 1080p 40" LCD at costco, only an idiot would buy it since 40" is way too small to tell the difference between 720p and 1080p on that screen size at a viewing distance of 5 feet. However 1080p and Blu-ray have become Bullet point features to consumers just like in the PC market the average consumer is worried about processor speed and ram and wonders why the PC can't run Vista very well (crappy 32bit built in videocards).

LordNova

@Nexus-6:

Hit the nail on the head

Snuffbox

Im more interested in the rumor that Microsoft is making a version of the 360 that won't spontaneously combust or otherwise burn through your $500 investment.

For now, though, we've no confirmation. Damnable rumors.

RickBarrs

@DevonTheDude: Your evidence proves nothing in the larger scale of things. It shows that Disney movies are popular, but says nothing about 1) the average Disney movie buying parent 2) the sales of Disney films on Blu-Ray vs. DVD.

The switchover is definitely going to increase the rate of HD adoption. But your comment about satellite and cable simply isn't true. They have no obligation to provide HD signals, and will likely carry standard def programming long after the FCC mandated broadcast switchover. That combined with their outrageous pricing of HD content will probably stymie adoption rather than push it forward.

You seemed to miss my point with the Wii. I was arguing that PS3, and Blu-Ray in general, are aimed largely at the high-end, where the value proposition simply isn't as much of a factor. Aside from hardcore gamers, the kinds of people who would generally be swayed by the value proposition are more likely to keep their sub $100 DVD player and buy that newfangled Wii thing that everyone keeps talking about. The combo deal certainly helps, but I don't think it's driving system sales.

Doomstalk

@peAr_nectAr: What does MS get out of selling a 360 with Blu-Ray? The answer is nothing. They don't get licensing deals out of Blu-Ray movies and instead have to take a greater loss for each console sold. Plus, every movie sold could have been a possible game sale.

Agies

I expect Blu-Ray to be on their next console, but not the 360. It's just too far into the console's lifetime to be making upgrades like that. Besides, Agies is right in saying the there is nothing in it for Microsoft.

psychobaka

MS would HAVE to sell at a loss.

PS3, more expensive but comes with built in WIFI and BR for games and movies.

360, you can play BR movies, but riddled with reliability issues.

Comparing SKUs, if your remotely educated on electronics, the PS3 is the better buy.

Tuxy79

I don't think Blu-Ray is necessary this gen for the 360. However, if the format gets bigger with huge support ala dvd, then the next xbox should have it.

Captain-bOOmbOOm

No-one thinking the next xbox will just have a huge harddrive and plays by installing games onto it instead of constantly switching discs?

Games could come on a few dvd's or just be downloaded - internet speeds are always picking up so waiting a few hours or less for a game seems fine no? Anyway Steam users have been enjoying that feature for ages.

JamieA

Oh, they denied it so it must be try then....kinda like there was never a elite or a massive red ring of death problem or blah blah blah!!!! Just wait in or month or more they will be changing there tune just like always!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

freespeech