editorial
Why The Bad Company Win Isn't A Win At All
Posted by Luke Plunkett at 4:00 PM on April 10, 2008
So EA & DICE have, as you've probably heard, altered their decision to charge users for certain weapons in the upcoming Battlefield: Bad Company. Cue high-fives and slapped backs across the internet. It's a victory! Score one for the little guy! Take that, big business! I'm sure a lot of people feel very proud of themselves! Thing is, how many of you have really sat back and considered what, exactly, just happened?
EA made the initial decision to charge for guns so they could make some money off you. That's what they do, they're a business. No harm in that. The way they went about it, though, well, it wasn't ideal. You can nickel-and-dime the kids for soundtracks CDs and tin boxes and action figures and gamerpics all you want, but when you open up a game's mechanics to the free market, giving those paying for content an advantage over those who don't, well, you're paddling right across the Rubicon.
Yet cross the river EA did, and an outcry followed. Petitions were begun. Boycotts threatened. "Don't you fuck with this game, you heartless corporate bastards" was the gist of mutterings by thousands across their dimly-lit keyboards. And for once, for a single week, the various warring tribes of internet fanboys set aside their differences and united against EA under a single banner. Tear-jerking stuff.
So a few days pass, the unrest grows louder, the petioning and emails continue, then...and then the darndest thing happens. EA announce the guns are coming for free (something I'm sure they were going to announce down the line anyways). Your complaining and crying and petitions worked. They'd seen how angry you, the consumer, had become, and rather than shout "let them eat cake", have instead said "here, cake's on us, sorry for the trouble". In other words, VICTORY.
Except...it isn't. And anyone who thinks it is are kidding themselves. Remember, EA made this decision so they could make some money. No doubt somewhere at Electronic Arts HQ is a ledger, and next to Battlefield Bad Company on that ledger is a projection saying $XX is estimated to be made by selling guns in the game. Now that they're not selling those guns, do you think they're just going to write $XX off the books? Not a chance.
No, they'll replace that "lost" money with the advertising dollars they rake in via the "marketing programs" anyone wanting the game's better guns will need to sit through. Or with other DLC offered later down the line (premium grenades, perhaps?), when this has all died down. They're not giving the money away, then, just shuffling it around a bit so you won't notice it so much. This isn't the end of stuff like this. The next EA game will have silly DLC, and the next one, and the next one.
Which means the boycotts (for a game you weren't going to buy anyways), the anger, the petitions, they're all pointless. This is a hollow victory. Why am I bringing this up, even though it will rain on more than a few people's parades?
Because while your hearts were in the right place, you all went after the wrong guy.
Online petitions aren't worth the bandwidth they're slung along. It's like trying to break down the walls of Helm's Deep by pissing on them. EA, who are a massive global corporation, sell their games to millions of people, and millions of those people don't ever read a messageboard or comment on a blog or sign online petitions. So your opinion doesn't mean as much as you think it does. You should know this. We're years on from stuff horse armour and "key codes" and paying-for-cheats and EA are still lacing their games with extortionate DLC, so it's obvious there are people are out there who are not only buying this content, but buying it in sufficient quantities for EA to keep on doing it.
They're the ones you need to be going after. Not EA. This is a free market. If something sells, EA will keep selling it. If something doesn't sell, they won't. Simple stuff. Clearly, DLC is selling. And you can hate and vent and write and bitch and moan all you like, EA won't stop selling it just because it makes you angry. You weren't buying it anyway. But if the people who are buying it stop buying it, well, that'll get you some results.
And I know, convincing them will be hard. These are your family we're talking about. Your friends, your co-workers, that kid you talk to at the bus stop. It's a lot harder having to explain this to them, and maybe even listen to their counter-points, especially since they're a real person and not some faceless corporation at the other end of an anonymous messageboard post. But hey, you want a real victory, and not a hollow one, you have to expect the fight to be longer and tougher than a few day's worth of words on the internet and some mouse-clicks.

Comments (AU Comments · US Comments)
There are currently no AU comments for this post.
tehbighead
Posted 5:08 PM 10/4/08
i don't hear the outcry against advertising at sports events, concerts, or movies, but lord help us all if we have to deal with some low-res texture advertising soap in the periphery of our HUD.
hypocrisy much or genuine concern over where this MIGHT lead in the FUTURE... i haven't yet decided on that.
tehbighead
jambe
Posted 5:06 PM 10/4/08
@piendula:
I agree with you here, and I'm glad somebody else thinks like I do.
Is the only way to achieve victory to educate the unwashed masses and bring a billion dollar empire to it's knees? Fuck no. I call this a victory, and frankly, it is. Nothing hollow about it. Do you honestly believe that EA would "pretend" to make us have to buy guns so they could later make it seem nicer when they make us sit through in game advertisements? No. They thought this would work, and enough people complained so they decided "fuck it, we'll just make it up in advertising." I guess technically EA didn't lose here, but neither did we. Can anybody here say that they would feel the same about EA charging for guns off the bat and EA making money off advertisers?
jambe
JayD16
Posted 5:06 PM 10/4/08
@Luke Plunkett: I don't really understand how your reply shows that this wasn't a victory. The point is the line has been drawn in the sand and it makes clear what is ok and what isn't.
JayD16
Kegwen
Posted 5:06 PM 10/4/08
@dowingba: You're confusing this game with the other Battlefield that actually is free.
Bad Company is a full-price product.
Battlefield Heroes is free.
Kegwen
buttpwner
Posted 5:06 PM 10/4/08
this isnt actually true, it's not like ea has a strict target number of capital to make and only aim to make that much. like all companies, they will try to make the most money possible, whatever number that turns out to be. the reason ea changed their policy wasnt because they were tired of petitions filling their inboxes, its because they decided that the amount of money lost not selling games to pissed fanboys would be more than the amount of money made through the weapon dlc system.
ea is likely scheming some way to shake the pennies out of their consumer's wallets, but don't think that it means that they were calling it a day when they thought everything would go off without a hitch with the weapon dlc system.
the petitions didnt say "dear ea, dont make us pay for guns, and not anything else in any other way either" the petitioners got what they wanted. no need to piss on their parade.
this is one less money grubbing campaign and it results in wasted time and money, when youre paying teams of people to come up with these nickle and dime strategies you cant get a refund.
buttpwner
Qube
Posted 5:05 PM 10/4/08
@Sunatic: If people didn't pay for Xbox Live in the beginning, there would be no Xbox Live. Their entire business model and infrastructure depends on financial support from subscriptions.
Qube
doing
Posted 5:04 PM 10/4/08
While I can understand why you would say, "Online petitions aren't worth the bandwidth they're slung along", the fact is it did generate quite a bit of awareness, with support of many communities. How is this not worth it?
doing
Vabor
Posted 5:03 PM 10/4/08
Why does EA keep getting depicted as the geek fantasy supreme: Star Wars (or Star Trek)? Doesn't that metaphor itself propagate their place in media/pop/nerd culture? Come on, let's get creative!
Vabor
dowingba
Posted 5:02 PM 10/4/08
The issue here is that it's EA. And every time EA does anything no matter what there's an outrage because they're apparently "evil" and stuff.
It's weird. Alot of the best games of the past 10-15 years have been EA. They don't actually seem worse than other companies.
By the way, this game is free. You cheap, cheap bastards.
dowingba
Luke Plunkett
Posted 5:02 PM 10/4/08
@awwyeadatsright: Bingo. We're the sharp end of a sharp end. Nothing wrong with that, of course, though from time to time it does skew our point of view on certain matters.
Luke Plunkett
sparced
Posted 5:01 PM 10/4/08
This is such a naive outlook its ridiculous. Just because the planned revenue from exploiting their customers using one method has been squashed doesn't necessarily mean another one has to be suddenly devised to keep EA afloat and the share holders at peace.
I'm sure they had other DLC on the drawing board before the reaction but they all may have been rolled out along with the pay-per-weapons. I view this as a victory, they will think twice before pulling this shit again or at least not go as far.
sparced
jynxce
Posted 4:59 PM 10/4/08
Oh, please. At least they made an attempt to do something... anything other than lay back and take it. No need to take that away from them.
As far as EA, they're already bloating the retail cost of European RB kits to fatten their coffers. Me thinks they're not pulling in the annual revenue as before since people are tiring of their regurgiated sports franchises and their stockholders are clenching their chubby palms in protest for more money...
jynxce
bAZZle
Posted 4:59 PM 10/4/08
This article is Bullshit! It was a win because i no longer have to spend $10 buying the 5 guns, they are now available for free!
bAZZle
piendula
Posted 4:54 PM 10/4/08
I think the issue here is less that EA was making the content pay, as this has been a standard in the game industry for quite a while, with downloadable content more recently and further back, expansion packs.
Where this situation gets shitty is that your Call of Duty 4 maps and WoW expansions aren't started or are in the very preliminary stages of work when the game ships. In this situation, EA is coming out and saying, "Oh hey, guys. I know you want this content we already have done, but...nah, you'll have to pay for it".
While I understand the victory is somewhat hollow as they'll still dick you further down the line, at least the game includes content they've finished already and have already included on the disk.
Reminds me of arcade games back in the day where no matter how good you were, you needed to put in more money to progress through certain parts of the game.
piendula
Darkest Daze
Posted 4:53 PM 10/4/08
I'm on a complete EA diet anyway. Anything containing EA has been off my plate for quite some time now and I feel great!
Darkest Daze
tshack
Posted 4:53 PM 10/4/08
Heh, I remember the days of calling Nintendo for help with Zelda...don't remember if it cost anything but I thought it did
tshack
ph15h
Posted 4:53 PM 10/4/08
Everything is a business... I laugh at people that say Television is for shows and sitcoms. Television is for advertisement and the shows are to keep you watching. If you want shows and anime, that's what the internet is for...
More In Game Advertisements... they better be destructible.
ph15h
awwyeadatsright
Posted 4:52 PM 10/4/08
Good stuff. I can't tell you how often I wish the "blogging gaming community" would realize what a FRACTION of the ACTUAL gaming market they are.
Case and Point: How many times have you been on an online game and actually ENJOYED the presence of the other total strangers? And if you do enjoy the company of teabagging, racist, and sexism dicktwirls, then by all means, enjoy.
We blogging gamers are part of a culturally nerdy elite. Are we better than other gamers? God, no. Just a little dorky enough to be obsessed. And I love you all.
awwyeadatsright
Dits
Posted 4:49 PM 10/4/08
@PlayingKarrde: I design and teach game design for a living, all this is about is making more an more money has nothing to do with the games themselves or the development.
Dits
GOLD5
Posted 4:48 PM 10/4/08
Why not just pay for invincibility, super-speed and x-ray vision? I just purchased the one-hit kill cheat for Halo 3 and I've never had so much fun using my innate skills to play a game! My favorite is the 400 point all-unlocker for the Transformers game where they say in the description that they'll never tell that you bought it.. Won't your friends know you cheated anyways because you don't have all the achievements? If they made a cheat that just made you win at the game matching screen with the all-your-base song playing and no match to fight, stupid people who care about their stats too much would buy it to one-up their friends. Should companies offer it because people will buy it? I say thee nay. Just me though. Why not just offer a cheat to let me look like I have cleared Rock Band on expert? I'll pay 500 points.. All is fair, just tell people not to buy it. Pam Anderson doesn't want you looking at her honeymoon video? Oh well, people will buy it, so tell your friends to just to not watch it, Pam shouldn't be upset.
GOLD5
Kegwen
Posted 4:48 PM 10/4/08
@Diamondblade:
Rock Band, dude. Rock Band.
Also the people that are mad at Luke for this article are pretty hilarious
Kegwen
Vroomfondel
Posted 4:46 PM 10/4/08
I don't have any hard numbers, but I think a large part of the reason we pay for songs in GH and RB is because of the licensing. The bands/record labels that own the rights to these songs know how popular the games are, and so sell the rights for a relatively large fee. The price we pay to download them is compensation for that cost, plus the salary of the people that implement the notes for each instrument.
Vroomfondel
buddhaman510
Posted 4:45 PM 10/4/08
incredibly poignant Luke. i've been saying ever since the first micro transactions that it was a bad idea and would eventually get out of hand. Look at GT5:Prologue, if you want more cars? pay for them. more tracks? pay for them. damage mapping? pay for it, pay, pay, pay, pay. And don't misunderstand me, I am a HARDCORE GT5 fan. It will take every fiber of my being, plus arm and leg restraints, to not purchase it this coming wednesday. I would rather wait a year and pay an extra 30 bucks for a full game than pay 30 now and another 200+ over the year for what will most likely be in the full game
buddhaman510
AnEternalEnigma
Posted 4:42 PM 10/4/08
Looks like someone didn't properly read the interview, Mr. Plunkett.
The guy from DICE said microtransactions would never try to be introduced in Bad Company again.
And what the fuck do you mean by "sitting through marketing programs"? That was just official talk for "the guns will be free via sponsors" kind of like how one of the Halo 2 map packs was free because it was sponsored by Mountain Dew.
I love Kotaku and everything, but this was a pretty poor piece of writing.
AnEternalEnigma
Luke Plunkett
Posted 4:41 PM 10/4/08
@PlayingKarrde: Nobody is. Some DLCs GREAT (Crackdown, for example). It's just silly DLC like this that gets peoples goat up.
Luke Plunkett
Clstirens
Posted 4:40 PM 10/4/08
@luigilogik: Actually, I thought he was going to go into this, which is likely, and I don't doubt it.
I for one was going to buy this game (pre-boycott) and plan to now (post-VICTORY)
Clstirens
Diamondblade
Posted 4:40 PM 10/4/08
I don't pay any more money for a game I already bought. No one should.
Diamondblade
Xeros606
Posted 4:40 PM 10/4/08
@luigilogik:
lol this is what im saying, but funnier.
Xeros606
PlayingKarrde
Posted 4:39 PM 10/4/08
DLC isn't bad. I'm not sure why people are thinking it is. The problem comes when a company holds back content only to ship it as DLC content for purchase at a later (usually not so distant) future.
For instance, NFS Carbon and Pro Street did this and it was a huge failure. Why they thought they could do this I don't know, but they did it all the same.
However DLC can greatly increase a games life so why look at it as a negative if it doesn't fall into the above category?
PlayingKarrde
Clstirens
Posted 4:38 PM 10/4/08
Yes, but Dlc is fine. I have NO issue buying things extra for games.
On launch content that alters GAMEPLAY, yes I have a problem with taht.
Besides, Mr. High and mighty, I did go to those people. I DID convince my fellow gamers who don't go to the blogs. I did convince my friends who don't really even buy dlc (because not selling the game at all hurts more). I spread the word OFFLINE as well. Just because you didn't and just because you didn't HEAR of anyone else doing it DOESN'T mean it didn't happen.
I would like to say that many of us did more than blog and post angry messages. I know of more than just I that went further. But yes, thankyou for the economy lesson.
Sorry for the rant Kotakuites. I love the site, but I am offended by this.
Clstirens
duckmouth
Posted 4:37 PM 10/4/08
Kind of disappointing. I expected some hard evidence; this appears to be blatantly obvious assumption.
duckmouth
Sunatic
Posted 4:36 PM 10/4/08
I am amused. Most people commenting are the same who are paying MS for Xbox Live...it's worse than DLC. if ppl hadn't paid for Xbox Live, it would be free by now, like any other online platform...pfff...
i 100% agree with what you said Luke, but see before they go after the regular consumers, they should go after themselves first...70 to 80% of the ppl who complained or signed the petition would have probably ended up buying the game...
if "hardcore gamers" (like some like to call themselves) didn't buy 360's because of the red rings, the issue wouldn't have lasted a year...
Sunatic
Xeros606
Posted 4:36 PM 10/4/08
imo still a victory. i dont think anyone was out to kill ea, just stop them from charging people for something that should be in the game. and you know what? they succeeded.
Xeros606
luigilogik
Posted 4:35 PM 10/4/08
so your saying the petition and public outcry to prevent EA from selling content that's already on the disc was as pointless and a waste of time as reading this idiotic article? Yes we all lost today because when we download this 1k unlock key we will be forced to view an Advertisement, oh noooo!!!! how foolish, we could've paid $10 for these guns. I don't want the Discovery channel to front that bill! i want to pay $70 for the complete Bad company experience and i, mister big pockets will have more guns then those snot nose kids that keep sniping me in Call of Duty!
What you should be talking about is how EA won, from all the free publicity because of this, and how they will actually make more money from the Extra copies sold. Instead you insult the people that got us some free shit! shame on you!
luigilogik
syl1985
Posted 4:34 PM 10/4/08
@Mr.DuckSauce: Yes, we are the lucky few.
syl1985
MIKEAWESOME
Posted 4:34 PM 10/4/08
@Maldron: Totally agree with you there.
And yes, the problem all along is that these games are selling things that have a perceived value, and so long as people are considering this perceived value as valuable enough to buy, we'll all have a problem. I for one, am the guy who will buy a new Halo map pack or Call of Duty map pack no matter if it'll be free in 4 months or not. These are the games I play most, so their perceived value is increased. So if there are a bunch of people playing Battlefield: Bad Company enough to think, "Hey, those guns would be a 'worthwhile' purchase!" then we're going to continue to have this problem.
MIKEAWESOME
Mr.DuckSauce
Posted 4:33 PM 10/4/08
@PlayingKarrde: yes, but even some developers opt not to charge people and microsoft is the one tell them they have to put a price on it, which in turns make the company look bad to others because of a priced offering that should have been free.
Mr.DuckSauce
[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star
Posted 4:32 PM 10/4/08
@Luke Plunkett: Make's me wish that a company that supports in game ads and gets paid for it would make the game some what cheaper. But i think i have a better chance of traveling in space.
[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star
XWonka
Posted 4:32 PM 10/4/08
You know... this column is totally right... but if there is one thing that i've learned over the past... ohh... eight years... is that something that's popular isn't necessarily right.
XWonka
PissedPS3Fan
Posted 4:32 PM 10/4/08
@Luke: Word.
PissedPS3Fan
[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star
Posted 4:29 PM 10/4/08
@Maldron: Exactly! It's just adding something here and there and not adding a bigger item or story. It's not here's a weapon, but a journey for the weapon. Probably worst analogy ever but i'm dumb and i can't come up well with them. I would also feel less dirty. :(
@ArmyofJuan: I wouldn't touch GH3 with a 10ft pole but with Rockband i understand. Yeah i know they can't put a billion songs into the CD but the fact they are able to bring some on a weekly basis makes it awesome. I wish they could make it cheaper but I understand perfectly that it takes time and effort to do it so i'm happy to pay. I guess what i'm saying is how the company of the game presents the DLC and not just throw crap around expecting people to fall all over it.
[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star
edb87
Posted 4:29 PM 10/4/08
Good article Luke. Your Helm's Deep reference had me rolling. X-D
edb87
mackincheese
Posted 4:27 PM 10/4/08
Amen, brother.
mackincheese
Luke Plunkett
Posted 4:26 PM 10/4/08
@JayD16: No, it means if a large section of people dont like the way one company's doing things, another company will see that market, step in and do it another way.
Luke Plunkett
PlayingKarrde
Posted 4:26 PM 10/4/08
@Dits: Games cost more to make now than before. Advertising costs and DLC are there to offset these increased development costs.
You still want your new shiny hi-def 1080p games don't you? Then deal with it.
Otherwise I'm sure there are thousands of games on MAME that you haven't played yet. Go have a go on those.
PlayingKarrde
Halosucks3
Posted 4:24 PM 10/4/08
@Sedarati:
Haha wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrong.
Halosucks3
Dits
Posted 4:23 PM 10/4/08
revolt of the indie gamers is coming.....
Dits
Volbard
Posted 4:23 PM 10/4/08
In games with item shops, only 5-15% of the users ever buy anything. So, are the other 90% freeloaders who are just bringing down the game? No, they're necessary to make the game world feel like a active, vital place. If you're making a cash shop game, you have to keep those users happy.
If some users can buy their way to victory, the free users will feel like they're being screwed, and they'll quit. Without them the game feels empty and the paying users quit too.
This was a sound business decision, and probably had little to do with the protests. EA had to expect an outcry, westerners just aren't used to cash shop games. But they will be, oh, they will be.
Volbard
ArmyofJuan
Posted 4:23 PM 10/4/08
@[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star: i dont mind paying for more songs though and i dont even get mad. I mean, think about it. If all the songs you've downloaded for GH/RB were on the game disk already, would you still be playing it as much today? or would you just rock out for the first few months of release and then get tired of playing the same songs over and over and eventually just play it everyone once in a blue moon?
I think DLC like the kind rock band and guitar hero have are great because they extend the gameplay and increase the amount of time you spend with a game that otherwise you would have traded it by now or stuck it on the shelf to collect dust
ArmyofJuan
Maldron
Posted 4:23 PM 10/4/08
Downloadable content is still in a stage right now where it's perceived by the end user as paying more money for getting a complete game. For myself, it's hard to see an extra character skin or an extra level as being much else, especially released so shortly after the release of the games. When I was growing up, there was a wait of almost a year for expansions and additional missions, and they typically felt like entire games in and of themselves. These new offerings are certainly cheaper than the expansions of yesteryear, but they offer much less so much more quickly that I can't help but raise my eyebrows.
This business model is definitely going to survive, but I remember a time when additional content was provided to breathe new life into a game I already enjoyed, as opposed to enhancing a game still in its infancy. I just wish that they had the same idea in their head, there's money to be made either way, and with the latter I end up feeling less dirty afterward.
Maldron
JayD16
Posted 4:22 PM 10/4/08
This doesn't make any sense. Games need to make a profit...so? By the argument this article makes I shouldn't buy anything that needs to make a profit because those lousy fat cats are just going to screw me one way or the other.
Games need to make a profit and there are ways that are acceptable and ways that aren't and the internet has shown that paying for a better score is not an acceptable way. That IS a victory.
JayD16
ldbobby
Posted 4:21 PM 10/4/08
I've been telling this to my friends for months... I hate you people who are accepting DLC prices! Sorry, but I do...
ldbobby
Omatic
Posted 4:19 PM 10/4/08
I ranted similarly back when they made those weapons packs for Battlefield 2 available a long ways back, so this is old hat for me. Weapons were added that were very powerful, and you had to pay / buy expansions to be able to use them.
It's messed up that people with more money to spend on DLC have advantages over those who don't. The same can be said of having a better PC than your opponent(s), but in this case EA is directly creating the problem.
Omatic
ArmyofJuan
Posted 4:19 PM 10/4/08
I love this article for 2 reason.
Luke is correct when he says i dont give a shit about this game.
And it's made me realise how awsome of a world we live in where we can make an analogy involving LOTR and almost if not all the people that read it will get it.
ArmyofJuan
slomo788
Posted 4:19 PM 10/4/08
Very good read, Luke. Thanks.
slomo788
TheBrianIsAstonishing
Posted 4:17 PM 10/4/08
I'm reminded of a certain Chris Rock bit... all EA's done here is what they should have done all along. We shouldn't be acting like they're saints for doing what they're supposed to do, ie release a complete product at the agreed-upon price.
TheBrianIsAstonishing
Sedarati
Posted 4:16 PM 10/4/08
Bullshit it did make a big difference
Sedarati
Snake726
Posted 4:16 PM 10/4/08
Just be content that it's only EA doing this. No good games will be ruined by this kind of DLC.
Snake726
Culebra
Posted 4:16 PM 10/4/08
Well said, and so true.
Culebra
[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star
Posted 4:15 PM 10/4/08
*slow clap* I have to say Luke that i agree a 100% with you. It's the people who continue to buy this DLC and continue. Let's look at GH3. It's not about being cheap either it's just that some people don't want to pay what should already be in the game. Charge *this much* for guns, clothes, perks, and all that good stuff. I'm glad you put this out Luke. Now we shall unite and fight ourselves (consumers)
[KU]Shindokie: Wishes for a Star
Dits
Posted 4:14 PM 10/4/08
In reality with all this product placment shoulnt the games be cheaper now? Burnout has shameless advertising round every corner but we still have to pay full price, its just going to get worse
Dits
diablofreak
Posted 4:13 PM 10/4/08
it won't be long until they charged your Sims to take a dump, or use your MS Points to convert into EA Simoleon Dollars so you can buy that huge fridge in the Sim-Kitchen.
diablofreak
kidincredible
Posted 4:13 PM 10/4/08
Wow, thank you for a lesson in basic economics. If only such a thing were taught at a school then it wouldn't take a blog entry to open people's eyes.
Oh wait...
kidincredible
Mr.DuckSauce
Posted 4:12 PM 10/4/08
lucky for me, i don't buy any EA games anymore.
Mr.DuckSauce
Maldron
Posted 4:12 PM 10/4/08
Damn that asshole kid at the bus stop! First he stops bathing, and now he's pulling THIS on me? RAGE!
Maldron
sp4ngle
Posted 5:36 PM 10/4/08
"...there are people are out there who are not only buying this content, but buying it in sufficient quantities for EA to keep on doing it.
They're the ones you need to be going after..."
But they're the people we DID go after. Does the phrase "Boycott Bad Company" sound like it's aimed at EA?
It doesn't take a genius to know that EA will try charging for DLC with future games, and for some games it works well - extra tracks for Rock Band etc. But for this type of game and for this type of downloadable content, it's just not on. New maps, yes. New weapons, no.
Luke, I really think you've misunderstood this campaign.
sp4ngle
xSavage5x
Posted 5:33 PM 10/4/08
Well said.
No, I do not have an interesting or relatively worthwhile comment. But I will do everything in my power to prevent my friends from participating in these what I like to call "Pay to Win" schemes.
xSavage5x
awwyeadatsright
Posted 5:31 PM 10/4/08
@Vroomfondel: agreed. i'm not one of said "consumers" that expect this type of content, but agree nonetheless.
awwyeadatsright
cash
Posted 5:31 PM 10/4/08
@Pornosaur:
Fuckin A, I'm not going to be buying it either because of that. If I need some Battlefield, I'll play BF2:MC for FREE with all its content on my PC thankyouverymuch.
cash
Replica23
Posted 5:31 PM 10/4/08
I spoke to soon...
Replica23
LonoSG
Posted 5:31 PM 10/4/08
@ Luke Plunkett: We achieved a huge win over a multi-billion dollar company today. You can't take that away from us.
I'm sorry sir, but I respectfully and vehemently disagree with your opinion piece. As the editor of Sarcastic Gamer, I've prepared my response. To those that are interested, you can find it here:
[sarcasticgamer.com]
Luke, maybe in the future, when EA pulls this crap again we can join forces?
LonoSG
Channing
Posted 5:28 PM 10/4/08
Sorry Luke, I'm going to have to disagree with you.
The people who were petitioning agaist this was/is their core audience. That is the reason why they changed it.
From what I can gather from what you wrote, you're saying that DLC is not EA's fault, but rather, the fault of millions of sheep who are willing to shell out extra money for content.
Like you said, this is a free market. Clearly people didn't want to put up with thier DLC nonsense and said something about it. If it's true that EA didn't give a flying gently caress about it and thought that they could've still turned a buck, they would've put it in. Will this stop DLC forever? No. I doubt anything could stop the allure of DLC.
However, this does show that people will only stand for so much and an incomplete thing is not one of them. I think this precident is a victory.
Channing
Pornosaur
Posted 5:28 PM 10/4/08
I changed my mind from earlier, this game is too dirty and I won't be buying. I really did enjoy BF 1942 and BF 2 on the pc and the thought of some nice xbox live play made it seem like a done deal purchase for the June doldrums. I'm over it though, but for every argument like this you have to remember that Kotaku fav Rock Band is an EA brand and they have pay for DLC every week. I kind of hope though that everyone jumps on board the shutout of Battlefield Bad Company, and at least squeezes out DICE as a development company.
Pornosaur
Volomon
Posted 5:27 PM 10/4/08
Well hell if you hate DLC you have to hate Xbox if it wasn't for them pioneering how far they can take the average sucker none of this would have happened.
Volomon
cash
Posted 5:26 PM 10/4/08
I'm sorry, but that 'free market' bullshit doesn't work when you're spending $60 for the game. THAT'S the market right there. I've got no problem with extra DLC down the road, but when you charge real money for what a simple string button pushes unlocked before (ie unlocking shit), you've gone too far. Thanks to all you idiots who pay for it (i'm speaking generally, as Kotaku readers are much to smart for paying for cheat codes), you've played a large part in ruining gaming. Great job.
cash
Vroomfondel
Posted 5:25 PM 10/4/08
@MisterSleep: I don't think that this "war" can even be won. I believe that DLC is a form of Pandora's Box. Now that the concept has been introduced, consumers won't want extra content, they will expect it, and producers aren't going to give away for free what they can charge for.
Vroomfondel
dowingba
Posted 5:22 PM 10/4/08
@Dajmin: DLC is cool, as long as it doesn't give people advantages over others online.
For instance, a good use of DLC is Rock Band. Buying songs doesn't give you an advantage over someone else online (because obviously you can't compete against them at all unless you both have the song) and yet there's still a tangible value to buying the music. The songs are worth $2, that's for damn sure. But for those poor and/or cheap people, they won't be forced to buy in just to stay in the game. Am I making any sense?
Interestingly, EA is also involved in this example.
dowingba
illegalprelude
Posted 5:22 PM 10/4/08
holy shit luke. Fantastic post/article/blog. im moved dare I say
illegalprelude
Phreaker47
Posted 5:22 PM 10/4/08
I was thinking the same thing... after all, they are still selling the "special" edition with the extra weapons for an additional $10.
I'm hoping now more than ever that Take Two can somehow avoid the takeover.
Phreaker47
Sam_Lowry
Posted 5:18 PM 10/4/08
It might be a long shot, but is anybody here currently in the US military serving in Iraq? I was wondering how hard it would be to "leak" some secrete documents showing that EA headquarters is really an indispensable government installation, and if it were ever destroyed the country just wouldn't be able to recover.
Sam_Lowry
badz149
Posted 5:16 PM 10/4/08
@Mr.DuckSauce:
kinda hard to think of anybody not buying any EA published games nowadays as they got games of theirs all over accross all genres now! but good to know you had such a strong resistance! cheers
badz149
Dajmin
Posted 5:16 PM 10/4/08
I don't see what everyone's problem seems to be with DLC all of a sudden.
Firstly, if developers held of a game's release until they could fit 100% of the stuff they wanted in, it would (a) delay the game's release by months, and (b) risk not fitting on any disc known to man.
Maps, weapons, songs, whatever all take time to make, and the more you add the longer you have to wait for it all.
The biggest issue with this case is the danger of the DLC weapons being unbalanced against the free stuff (which I guess they might do to force people to buy it). And that's an issue which only the beta testers can know. New DLC maps? Didn't see the net go this mental when Halo 3 and CoD4 gave the world the same thing.
If the weapons ARE balanced, it's not a new game mechanic people are getting. It's just a paid version of the weapon unlocks that nobody complained about in CoD4. However, if the weapons ARE balanced there's no real reason for anyone to want them.
I hate EA as much as anyone (they killed MCO and for that I will never forgive them) but if people keep buying it, you can't blame them for selling it.
Dajmin
MisterSleep
Posted 5:15 PM 10/4/08
Luke, you've got some very good points in your write-up, but it still leaves me wondering what the actual solution is, and what exactly it would take to win the war, so to speak. I guess I haven't been as in tune with all the gloating and celebrating that's allegedly been going on, but I can well imagine that it'd be easy to lose sight of the forest for the trees. And yes, this minor victory really doesn't amount to much more than a bug fart in a hurricane, but it's still something. I personally don't have any delusions about the fact that DLC will continue, unabated, to be foisted upon us. But not this time. And yeah, revenue for Q3 will still be met somehow, if it's in an extra 40 MS points per bonus map, or prominent in-game ads. I think--or hope--that everyone's aware of the concept of ancillary DLC, but as soon as the core gameplay is basically put up for sale, the line's been crossed and the unwritten agreement between publisher and consumer has been violated.
I digress. That's not the point; the meat bun has been eaten, the med kit applied, and the bleeding stopped. My point is that EA isn't really protecting its sales--because you're right, even with the DLC, millions of less-informed gamers would still buy the game--it still is protecting its reputation, and the fact that a few persistent people got a towering behemoth to move a few inches, even laterally, is not insignificant, and it's not like it can't and won't work again in the future.
It'd be nice to be able to tackle the problem from the ground up, but I don't think that'll ever be an option without a politician's budget. Not even the power and reach of the internet can do that. And it's further complicated by the concept of DLC in general, which isn't necessarily flawed through and through. It's a very fine line to walk, to be sure, but it can be done successfully. I'm all for paying extra for Rock Band songs I like, and only the ones I like. Yes, I'm sure EA could easily have afforded to shoehorn every single song they're now offering as DLC onto the same disc. But, surprisingly, I'm not opposed to EA making a profit. I believe the DLC model is working, even if it is a polar subject. It's a good model, in theory, but done well, it allows smaller publishers and developers to make more money and create better games, right? The reality may be different but the only people who can determine whether or not it goes in the right direction are the people who buy the games, as you say. But given that getting everyone in the world to not buy a game is nigh on impossible, the only option is to tackle the one entity who might actually move.
I don't think there will ever be a black and white set of guidelines for "acceptable" and "unacceptable" DLC, so the next battle may not be as obvious as this one. It's easy to predict that developers and publishers will start putting less content into the game and leaving more for DLC, but when that happens--as it did with Bad Company--the gaming community will push back. I think what happened with this game may have been a drop in the pond, but the ripples will continue for a while. I think going forward it's going to be a bit of an unsteady truce, but I think the appropriate message has been sent that if shit like this happens again, there will be more outrage, and the behemoth will have to shift another two inches. It's going to be a war of individual battles, small victories, and lots of spit shine and duct tape.
This was a very long way of saying, it may not be much, but it's got to start somewhere and right now it's our only option.
Shit, there were a lot of bad analogies in this essay. My apologies.
MisterSleep
dead_red_eyes
Posted 5:14 PM 10/4/08
Well said Luke!!!
dead_red_eyes
dowingba
Posted 5:13 PM 10/4/08
@Kegwen: Whoops my mistake. Yeah then charging for the weapons was stupid.
dowingba
Yon Von Tleilaxu Kuxthom Thenxon
Posted 5:11 PM 10/4/08
[deej.digitalfunk.org]
Picture somewhat related (DJQuake)
Yon Von Tleilaxu Kuxthom Thenxon
Volbard
Posted 5:10 PM 10/4/08
Oops, I too confused this with the other battlefield.
Carry on.
Volbard
PlayingKarrde
Posted 6:06 PM 10/4/08
@Dits: There are many people here who work in games, myself included. I don't see what the relevancy of that is though. If you don't think that development costs have risen this generation then I'm not entirely sure what platforms you are working on.
Myself working with a team of over 100 on just one game it's easy to see how much costs are this generation. Last generation a game would need half as many people. The generation before that half again. The economics are obvious. I'm not sure why you don't see that.
PlayingKarrde
Fyren
Posted 6:02 PM 10/4/08
I might have this confused. But won't Bad Companies be released as a free game?.
I thought it was a F2P-FPS, then shouldn't you be paying premium prices for the weapons?, like every single F2P out there?
Am I confusing this with Battlefied:Heroes?, Aren't they both F2P games for different platforms?.
Fyren
imaria
Posted 5:59 PM 10/4/08
I haven't bought an EA game in years. I'm doing my part, have a good time guys.
imaria
LoopyChew
Posted 5:58 PM 10/4/08
It took everything I had in me to not buy the No Doubt Track Pack for GH3, but now that Rock Band is finally releasing in Europe for €240, I no longer have to worry about being gouged on DLC prices!
LoopyChew
Mugsus
Posted 5:54 PM 10/4/08
But what if all those Uruk-Hai would have pissed on the walls of Helms Deep together... those were a lot of Uruk-Hai man.
Mugsus
blueshoals
Posted 5:49 PM 10/4/08
I don't really give a damn about EA games anyway, so this only affects me with it's low-impact-long-term alteration of the general market.
People got what they wanted out of the petition, and they shouldn't worry about having attacked the wrong guy.
People need to think more selfishly... The big picture may seem important, and improving the market as a whole might seem like a noble thing to do, but only when individuals act more selfishly will the market reform into it's best form.
Gamers should be more selfish, and only go after what they want. They shouldn't force themselves to be concerned about issues like these.
If it becomes urgent, impedes their fun, and goes against their desires, then they should concern themselves with it.
If it bothers the "market, other gamers, casual gamers, or the creator," then who cares? Forcing yourself to be concerned with that stuff doesn't actually help any of it.
The market only grows stronger when people become selfish.
blueshoals
vanderblade
Posted 5:48 PM 10/4/08
A clean perspective: I'm tired. I'm drunk. It's late. I saw what they were doing. I had no intension of purchasing this game. Therefore, I was against them in foresight, something very few others might claim, although I know they're out there, fighting, slowly, for every free gamer to play on gradually without being out-purchased and out-ranked because of sold weapons or ranks. If not for the free Still Alive, EA would still be on my pile of stink. Owing to that, however, they are on in my proverbial timeout box, a place where I place developers that need a wake up call, regardless of whether or not they need to actually regain full conscientiousness. I can hear fairies singing.
Then again, that may be my laptob in my roommates parlor, jittering irritatingly in the wing.
vanderblade
Trowble (XBL/PSN)
Posted 5:46 PM 10/4/08
Is it just me or has brand loyalty become overrated nowadays?
Trowble (XBL/PSN)
Pornosaur
Posted 5:45 PM 10/4/08
@exkon: Let them test the waters and when the numbers come out and gamers don't buy Bad Company from retail it will send the only message all corporaton not only EA can understand, losing money. If anyone has to have this game, trade for it from the dolt on the street Luke is talking about for a bag of weed or something, or wait a month for it used at your local dying FYE.
Pornosaur
Blue_Six
Posted 5:44 PM 10/4/08
Nice write-up Luke, but I'll have to disagree and give you the real story, so here's what happened:
EA decided on the Rockband pricing for Europe but afterwards figured out that their vaults are completely stuffed and their bank accounts had reached the limit of positive numbering. So now their clamoring to lose some money elsewhere.
Blue_Six
RabidWombat
Posted 5:44 PM 10/4/08
I think one thing you fail to consider here is the possibility that EA looked at the $XX they'd make from the DLC weapons, compared it to the $XX they'd lose from the general outcry, bad publicity, blah blah blah, and came to a decision based on that.
RabidWombat
exkon
Posted 5:38 PM 10/4/08
Holy crap a company wants to make money!?!
It just how the REAL world works folks. You gonna sell that candy bar $1 when someone will pay $1.50?
EA is just testing the waters here folks, this could go either way, but I'm sure as development costs go up they have to find some way to make some extra money.
I agree there are certain ways to do it, release extra content at a price, but don't charge for content that's already on the disc. It's not like they're forcing it down your throat, it's your money do what you want with it.
exkon
EmTeeZ
Posted 6:22 PM 10/4/08
This just seems to be a very uninformed assumption.
The guns are free. What was desired was gotten. Regardless of whether there's additional stuff sold, or more advertising (which really doesn't get in the way at all), that part of the complete game will be available to all equally.
To jump to major conclusions in such a way seemed very unprofessional to me. Very un-Kotaku, too.
EmTeeZ
DigiMish
Posted 6:16 PM 10/4/08
is this supposed to be satirical, Luke? You sound really angry.
DigiMish
PlayingKarrde
Posted 6:09 PM 10/4/08
By the by, I am in no way endorsing the DLC proposed here for Bad Company. I am totally against this sort of profiteering and I think so far EA hasn't handled DLC the way it should be handled.
PlayingKarrde
haracas
Posted 6:55 PM 10/4/08
ZOMG I"M TOTALLY BOYCOTTING THIS BLOG 4EVUR. SIGN YOUR PETITION IN THE COMMENTS SECTIONS TO PROTEST THIS!
The internet is great for free speech, but its still only the vocal minority that makes the noise. Emphasis on MINORITY.
haracas
cindersphere
Posted 6:46 PM 10/4/08
While this may seem like a shallow victory that is small, it could also go the other way and go all McLiebel on EA. I mean while we are a minority our opinions on games sometimes make it into other venues that are more accessible to more people and by doing these things we bring a little light to bad practices. Should we just take this abuse of power by EA and try to convince others that EA is bad? No we must stamp out tyranny(yes I know over dramatic) where ever it is. Even if the foot print is small the step must be taken because if one doesn't nothing will ever change. While it seems better to wait for the big games to complain over all it does is create the business model that if it is not a AAA title we can bog it down with DLC that should be apart of the real game. I am tired and will be going to sleep.
cindersphere
ashstampede
Posted 6:46 PM 10/4/08
I will pay for good DLC to improve the longevity of the game I just bought, I hate having to think its time to trade this in. What I dont agree on is the price of digital only games, why are they the same price sometimes more than in retail. should always be less. The only EA game I play and own is burnout paradise which I bought used so no profits for EA at all. But if they say, well you got to pay for the new island then i will say how much? simply because that game is awesome! I wouldnt pay for the cars because the 75 or so already included is more than enough.
ashstampede
little_dragon
Posted 6:40 PM 10/4/08
Luke, I call bullshit on you.
You talk about "the sheep" who are willing to pay for their DLC and that we should go after them, because EA will try it again next time.
But if you say that these petitions are pointless, you're a sheep yourself. You're even worse than the other sheep, because you are a 'core gamer, you know about the evils of charging customers in a multiplayer game for content that gives them an edge over other players and still you sit idly by and piss on the people who actually get of their arses.
As for going after the other sheep. What do you think this petition was all about? It was as much about raising awareness about the whole issue (the coverage this petition got was what informed me about the whole issue in the first place) as it was about forcing EA's hand.
Also, have you ever heard about the concepts of "opionion leaders", "core audience" and "multiplier"?
Sure, a game needs a lot more than just the hardcore audience these days to be financially succesfull. But who do you think the non-core gamers turn to advice, when they want to buy a new game?
I have a lot of friends who only buy one or two games a year and they usually ask me for advice. Do you think I don't educate my non gamer friends on these things?
Boycotts and petitions work in other industries, why shouldn't they work in this one? Yeah, EA will try again. Of course they will. And the next time they try it, there will be a new petition.
Really, this whole rant smacks of arrogance of the worst and most dangerous kind. Because you don't believe that you have the power to stop a large corporation, nobody else can. Why can't these fools see, that their struggle is pointless! They are too powerfull, don't even try. Your victory was hollow, they'll find other ways to make money. Don't join the resistance, they'll just kill more innocents!
little_dragon
Totalfailure
Posted 6:39 PM 10/4/08
I'm cynical enough to believe that EA floated this idea of paid guns out there just so they could take it back later. Now all the people are out there are busy celebrating their 'victory', while EA is still laughing all the way to the bank....DLC is not inherently evil. It is all preceived value to the buyer. The only content I am opposed to is that which would alter a multiplayer experience, which in even this case is not certain. Anything else, I could care less. I already have the power not to buy it, or the game itself after all. Don't kid yourself - paid DLC is here to stay. You can rail against its evils from your ivory tower all you like. Meanwhile, the 9 out of 10 casual gamers that have never heard of or don't care about Kotaku or gaming blogs are out buying it.
Totalfailure
Slatz_Grobnik
Posted 6:38 PM 10/4/08
New DLC - The ability to turn....left!
I pretty well consider this sort of thing fait accompli. It's worse and it's going to get worse.
Slatz_Grobnik
IronsUK
Posted 6:24 PM 10/4/08
I have no problem with DLC. There should be a few ground rules that are never broken:
1) Must be optional
2) Must not be on the disk already but locked from use until you "download" it
3) Should be priced the same, globally
4) Should not offer a huge advantage in multiplayer games
Stick to those rules and I'm happy as larry. I'll buy the good DLC (eg COD4 maps) and leave the rubbish (horse armour, crappy weapons).
I guess if rule 4 is broken, the choice is to stump up the cash or ditch the game forever.
IronsUK
EmTeeZ
Posted 6:24 PM 10/4/08
@EmTeeZ: Unless this article was some sort of joke, maybe? I dunno. It comes off like the ramblings of an old NY cop who's seen one too many kids murdered in the streets and now he's gone over the edge.
EmTeeZ
develin
Posted 7:02 PM 10/4/08
First off all, this proves that the author has never ever heard of "viral marketing". Times have changed that "enough buzz on the net" translates to money for companies. And the other way around. The noise was loud enough for this one. That petitions don't work is another story.
Ahh and as a sidenote DICE games aren't really bought by casual "we buy as long as it says 'The Sims' on the front of the box" gamers.
develin
PJK
Posted 7:00 PM 10/4/08
So what you're saying is I should KILL them instead of trying to reason with them. Yes, its all so clear now.
PJK
Filthy_O_Bedlam
Posted 7:45 PM 10/4/08
I think Plunkett's brain fell out again. First "Magic Strangle", now this. You'll never convince me that standing up for Fair Play over Pay for Play is somehow wrong because we live in a capitalist society. Guess we should all just stop trying, huh Luke.
Filthy_O_Bedlam
Shiryu
Posted 7:42 PM 10/4/08
@little_dragon: "Boycotts and petitions work in other industries, why shouldn't they work in this one?"
Because we have no rights! We have no unions or organized "gamer protection agencies"! They shove whatever they watn donw our throats and somewhre alogn the line, we lost our way and keep buying whatever they sell.
The 360 is a huge, poorly built machine, with payed online outclassed on every aspect by even my laptop PC. The PS3...hell, im not even gonna go there, the way Sony screwed us over in Europe is just downright criminal. AND STILL those machines sell liek hotcakes over here.
Nintendo is indeed gimmicky as usual, but at least they arent charging my soul for the Wii and new games. I did the only possible chocie I could this current gen, I bought a Wii and even if people say it has weak online (indeed it has), I couldnt care less, really. We are not being forced to buy anything on the VC and being a PC gamer for decades, I find trouble with the concept of "payed dlc" since we always got it for free on the PC.
In fact, I remember a time where we bought an Ace Combat game and it came with all extra and secret skins on the disc, we just had to use our skill to unlock them, not buy them off the Internet... microtransactions make NO SENSE AT ALL when the core game costs us 70€uros over here... shows you just how far we lost our way...
Shiryu
Shiryu
Posted 7:34 PM 10/4/08
Good piece, Luke. Sadly, I have becomed too tired and even too disapointed on trying to "educate" the new young gamers why they buying sh*t off the shelves are helpign ruining the videogame industry as a whole.
Even with my videogame blogs where I express my many views (like oh so many aroudn the globe) I don't think I get my message across and am always dismissed just because I dont like Sony's way of handling things since the PS3 came out.
It is still very rewarding when you finnaly manage to open someones eyes and they "see" whats comming down the line if they keep on buying sequels of sequels, dlc thats free on the PC, silly gimmick acessories, etc etc, but sadly, that has become quite rare.
You at Kotaku are on a prestige place where you can pass down the line to thousands of uneducated gamers that really need to open their eyes, before it is too late.
Even if the Videogames Apocalypse is comming, I still keep my original GameBoy at hand... just in case.
PS: I'm 29 yold and started on Spectrum 48k.
Shiryu
Yon Von Tleilaxu Kuxthom Thenxon
Posted 8:13 PM 10/4/08
Well...
Seems people (the vocal minority, but maybe also the silent masses) want a single payment for the rights to enter "heaven".
The backlash against BadC micro is usefull for these people, because push back this system.
It seems people is not against to pay for enterinament, but this vocal minority (and maybe the other people) dont want to pay this way.
- - -
Theres also the thing consoles (XBox 360, I am looking at you) suffer from very litte modability. If you want "Horse armour" and can't be downloaded from Joe Modder, but from the professionals, don't expect these profesionals to work for free (these people need to pay the bills).
This is a problem by-design of consoles. Maybe the future is console guys paying for mods, and PC users creating mods and playing mods for free.
- - -
Poor EA, I hope EA somehow is able to show gamers how micropayments work in a fair way. Maybe If EA stop tryiing to push micro on everything, and build a game from ground up with micro, she will be able to show this idea to gamers. I bet some gamers will like the idea.
Yon Von Tleilaxu Kuxthom Thenxon
little_dragon
Posted 8:06 PM 10/4/08
@Shiryu: No, we don't have these things. And if we do everything that Luke proposed in his "rant", we'll never have them either. Telling random people not to buy DLC won't change anything.
But getting organized and campaigning against the kind of bullshit EA is trying to do, calling companies out for their shenenigans might be the start of such institutions.
But I guess Luke is right. Not doing anything at all and keeping quiet will sure bring those corporate bastards to their knees!
little_dragon
MasterSauce
Posted 7:55 PM 10/4/08
Ok...sure. We're the internet whiners and complainers. This is a "hollow" victory. It doesn't mean much in the long run. So was the freaking Boston tea party, but guess what sucker? It meant a lot to the people doing it. The British Empire didn't go bankrupt because they lost a shipment of tea. We made a stink and had our say about what we thought was a load of malarkey. Did we win the DLC war in one swoop? No. But when you kick up a little dust it feels good.
Not only that, but some of us feel a bit of pity when people buy games and content that's essentially worthless and don't know it. We are the educated ones and I feel like we should stand up to the tossers who piss on the people who don't know any better. We've all seen the people in game stores buying crap games and know we should educate them. This is our little way of trying to protect these saps and suckers.
You're completely right about this being a much larger issue than just Bad Company. It is a long, uphill battle. EA will probably win. The free market sucks sometimes.
But good grief, I'm not sure you could be a more wet blanket about this bit of fun.
MasterSauce
sKetcheD
Posted 8:44 PM 10/4/08
This articles comment section should be used to temper the ban hammer. Those to dense to see shouldn't be allowed any influence regardless how small.
*facepalm*
abstracts...if it doesn't exist prior to our bitching, it would have never have been.
sKetcheD
sKetcheD
Posted 8:37 PM 10/4/08
+1 & thank you Luke.
Only a "professional" outsider can have any affect on the dim.
I've tried endlessly to convince friends/family/coworkers of truths just like this one. Be it simple and obvious as hell it won't mean they'll understand despite your best word and idea jockeying.
Worse yet, it's not just the dim doing the naughty. It's regular average peope and sometimes generally bright people.
Why would they do it? Why can't they see the obvious? A quick fix, lazy way out, and having to keep up are seemingly top of the list. Idiot bash all one wants and surely they are for being so daft, but some of it isn't their fault.
Try explaining to a friend that they shouldn't purchase DLC and you'll just get a headache. What they see is, "Oh, I want that. Hmm, dammit it cost money. Well, I suppose." If you explain the company will give it away for free if they don't go succumbing to DLC you'll recieve an 'error, does not compute. Invalid.'
What their mind processes is, "Well if I don't buy it, I can't get it. If it wasn't available for DLC....then it wouldn't exist. If I can't buy it, where could I get it?"
You're actually dealing with abstracts that many or even most probably don't comprehend well.
As much as I'd like to go all cliche with the "well, it mattered to that one."...it doesn't. I couldn't convince one out of 20 co-players to avoid DLC because any who could understand it already knew the same. *hell, it's hard enough to convince people that dogs are NOT human but wild domesticated animals - a story for another day*
So poke and prod these downloaders all you want but the lemmings all eventually jump the cliff.
But, perhaps there's a chance. Yes, "outside professionals" are a possible ray of light amonst the shadows of ignorance.
What's an outside professional? Bloggers, reputable ones with solid backgrounds. Luke took the step to stand above the rest and dish what needed to be heard. Your influnce is so much more so then us common folk because of your outside professionalism. You aren't a close personal friend to those I know and so you're percieved differently. You're also here in the spotlight, on a gaming site...handing you instant credibility! That's infinately more +'s for your knowledge. Us commoners are/or can be dismissed instantly because we have no 'famous' crediblity.
So leaders of the industry...Give'm hell!
I'll have your back all the way.
sKetcheD
ErskinPig
Posted 8:32 PM 10/4/08
Nice try at being insightful Mr Plunkett, but you have sadly failed miserably.
In no uncertain terms, the DLC model they were trying to push was wholely unnacceptable. EA pushed the con to its limits and this IS a great victory for common sense.
Letting them go ahead with it would have been a tragedy. I find your suggestion that we've made things worse laughable and contemptible in equal messure.
ErskinPig
yojimbo32
Posted 8:31 PM 10/4/08
Very un-Kotaku article Luke, The simple fact is the weapons they were going to charge for are now free. Your argument seems to be based on saying that the boycotters took the fight to the wrong people, I am sorry but what you are proposing is impossible. How can a little Blog like sarcasticgamer get their message to millions of gamers who dont go on messageboards or blogs?
You are underestimating what they did. Maybe EA are planning more stupid DLC but that does not mean you should stop trying all together, I am suprised by this article and hope that you, like Lono said, join forces with the smaller blogs if something like this happens again.
yojimbo32
MasterSauce
Posted 8:29 PM 10/4/08
Also, Example B: Jeff Gerstmann and KaneandLynchGate
He got canned, We assumed why, and the Gamespot higher ups got hammered up the rear by the internet.
You can't stop the voice of the People! Viva La Revolucion!
MasterSauce
maloney
Posted 8:25 PM 10/4/08
"EA, who are a massive global corporation, sell their games to millions of people, and millions of those people don't ever read a messageboard or comment on a blog or sign online petitions. So your opinion doesn't mean as much as you think it does."
So, uhh, remind me again, why exactly did EA make the DLC free?
If it is just a vocal minority moaning & petitioning, and EA can still potentially sell the DLC to "millions of people" why did they make it free?
Can you explain further for me Luke?
maloney
lewdev
Posted 9:01 PM 10/4/08
I think the hardcore crowd does have a loud voice despite its small size in the market because that includes game reviewers. And game reviewers will see this DLC as a flaw in game design. Money, or no money, they would have only heard more complaints from gamers who don't read message boards after buying the game and ultimately affect their reputation. EA does not want to be known as money milkers and bad game designers either.
lewdev
nxp3
Posted 9:40 PM 10/4/08
Fuck man..way to rain on our parade Luke. Atleast it's a small victory for gamers. Sure I hate the mofo who keeps on buying crap from EA, but it's a lot harder to to to the masses than to hit EA where it hurts. As a gamer we don't have that much say, but as a Gaming blog you can reach more people, say something. And I was commenting earlier saying that we should punish game developers who are doing this or creating crappy games to make a quick buck. We as gamers should expect a game to be done right, required developers to put out a demo so we can all evaluated for ourselves. It they don't, then we shouldn't buy their games and others should know about it. We gotta protect other gamers from buying crappy games. I mean I work hard for my money, I don't have time and resource to be disappointed by a crappy purchase. Beleive me, I've had some regrets. Madden, Tekken5...and so on...games that I would gladly not buy in the first place. I'm done with EA. I won't buy their game on release.
nxp3
Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.
Posted 10:07 PM 10/4/08
@ Sunatic: best comment of the day so far. where's your star? i've been talking about that for years. RRoD is inexcusable especially after the ps2 'disk read error' nonsense. An extented warranty is a bullshit answer for a problem that shouldn't be there in the first place. MS should have recalled the 360 but people in their infinite wisdom just keep buying it. agreed, if people would have stopped buying the 360 MS would have had no choice but to fix the problem far sooner instead of letting it linger as it does now.
on topic, too many people of the interwebs talk out of both sides of their faces. EA gets ripped for Weapongate, but many people screaming about the injustice are paying for Live. a service that has features that have been free for over a decade on pc. Nintendo is raping the unwashed masses charging 5 bucks for nes games that are over 15 years old not to mention the other titles. games that go for 2 or 3 bucks (if that) at brick and mortar. i understand the business dynamic of it but we're talking about value for money spent. what happened to releasing a finished, fully developed game? DLC available days after a game launches is suspect at best. it's total bullshit when the content is clearly something that should have been in-game in the first place.
I call victory on this one. deal with battles as they come. EA gets retarded with in-game ads, let em know. But too many of the 'average' gamers aren't going to listen to the logic of it. they're already brainwashed. how else do you explain Madden sales, people on their 5th 360, which just RRoD (again), people that believe Live is worth the money, people that believe EA is a great developer, people that believe hip hop is real music, people that believe in santa claus....
Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.
Edairu
Posted 10:03 PM 10/4/08
@Maldron: I totally agree, I remember when the Diablo 2 Expansion: Lord of Destruction came out. That was quite a satisfying upgrade and I really hate that the trend of true expansions, not just short-lived DLC is pretty much going out of style.
Edairu
bAZZle
Posted 10:01 PM 10/4/08
@Cruithne: You are right! Kotaku refused to mention the Boycott until after the fact.
bAZZle
TheTime
Posted 9:47 PM 10/4/08
Doesn't matter to me. I'm a metro supervisor and I make $48.50 an hour, so DLC pricing and/or subscription fees aren't a problem. Its called "GET MONEY"!!!
TheTime
Cruithne
Posted 9:45 PM 10/4/08
The last 24 hours have changed one thing, and that's my attitude towards Kotaku.
You do raise some good points Luke, but ther's a tone to your piece that makes me uneasy, and frankly I think it's sour grapes.
Imagine how it would be if last year when Kotaku stood up to Sony and instead of people saying well done, we got articles talking about how you were fooling yourselves into thinking you had made ay difference whatosever?
Well that's what Kotaku is dong here.
From my perspective Kotaku dropped th ball on this one, they didn't even mention this whole thing until it was all over.
Cruithne
MC2829
Posted 10:24 PM 10/4/08
Actually they said you have to get to the highest level to unlock them. No marketing programs.
MC2829
Tiber
Posted 10:21 PM 10/4/08
@Luke, But, but...if enough people piss, we can turn Helm's Deep into a lake!
Anyway, I see the point of appealing to the idiots who buy this, but this petition does have a purpose. Way back when, EA justified their ripoff by saying, "DLC is relatively new, and we're just testing the waters." That is just PR speak for "let's see how much shit we can get away with." EA knew from the beginning that they every way they can charge for extra content, and waiting until the backlash reached critical mass.
Of course EA is going to find a different way to sucker us; hopefully they now realize that selling weapons in an FPS won't work. We've managed to get one thing on the black list; we've just gotta work on making that list larger.
Tiber
Purguy
Posted 11:30 PM 10/4/08
Well said. I did not like the game anyway. I played the beta and the game sucks! There are better games coming out with better gameplay.
Purguy
JKPierce
Posted 11:28 PM 10/4/08
@aelfin: The intelligence required to take five seconds to say, "Hey. I can vote. With my wallet," is amiss to far too many people.
There's absolutely no reason at all to piss and moan about what the 'general populace' is going to do. If they want to spend the extra ten dollars on those shiny tin boxes with the OH GOD THE PRETTY PICTURES, let them. Obviously, there's a market for them. What difference can it make with the knowledge such a market exists? Can it honestly be that detrimental to one's own enjoyment? (One of those shockers: people bought Lair. On purpose.)
This article, too, is bizarre. The argument can be made, certainly, that X amount was expected of the title and a source of revenue was instantly shortened. Whatever the consequence, the initial outcry was successful; precedence, too, was established. I'd honestly be surprised to see another company turn the same tricks for the same pennies.
JKPierce
rainofwalrus
Posted 11:19 PM 10/4/08
@sKetcheD: @sKetcheD: you should be banned for FACEPALM abuse.
rainofwalrus
rainofwalrus
Posted 11:15 PM 10/4/08
this, from the petitions on up, is all about publicity. EA is smarter than any of you realize.
rainofwalrus
jayntampa
Posted 11:08 PM 10/4/08
I disagree with certain aspects of the post -- I think people SHOULD make noise against the organization they feel is making a wrong choice. Obviously, people want to play Bad Company ... so, if you can get the company to change the game so you can buy it without a boycott, you won.
The people that were up in arms and making a big deal WERE the one's that were going to purchase it. You understand what I'm saying right? If you just stop other people and yourself from buying it, without trying to set the game right, you're just hurting yourself ... because it was a game you wanted to play.
I say bravo to all those that stood up and made a difference so that the base release of the game was pretty much equal.
Will EA try to make more money off of the game? That's a duh comment ... of course, that's what they do, duh. However, I think you're very much slighting the community that did, in fact, make a difference.
jayntampa
nxp3
Posted 11:07 PM 10/4/08
@aelfin: I don't think people mind buying ADDONS, but EA has the balls to be leaving shit out and then charging people for it. That's the outcry here. If you spend time to create add ons you should be credited, but to have already created this and not put in the game...but plan on charging people later. They're selling us an incomplete game, and expect us to pay more to complete it.
nxp3
Slorg
Posted 11:07 PM 10/4/08
@nxp3: You're talking about a totally different scale. When PSN is as big xbox live they will either lose huge money on it, or it will suck. They will need to recoup the cash somehow. Probably through advertising and DLC. :)
Slorg
neojam
Posted 11:03 PM 10/4/08
Jeff @[www.giantbomb.com] is saying almost the same.
neojam
nxp3
Posted 11:03 PM 10/4/08
@Slorg: Dude...do you know the ps3 PSN is free? You can make money off it too. Just not charging people what's rightfully should be free is all we care about. Don't talk about how a free network would suck and lag, becuase I play warhawk just fine with 32 players online at the same time.
nxp3
aelfin
Posted 11:01 PM 10/4/08
I dont get it. Of course I'm not going to buy downloadable content I dont want. Why not buy the stff we want to? I wanted the lumines packs, and thought they were a reasonable price, yet peple seem narky at that. Get over it, buy the content you want, dont buy the content that is over priced or consider to be not good value. Problem solved.
aelfin
Slorg
Posted 10:53 PM 10/4/08
@crapsh00t: In reality we'll go down both slopes. Don't kid yourself.
DLC != lessened content;
There's always someone willing to pay to have a bigger pee-pee, EA realizes it, and like any smart business they're going to capitalize on it. And they'll slather games with even more advertising to boot.
[isn't a man entitled to the sweat of his brow? "no" says the man in washington "it belongs to the poor", "no" says the man in the vatican "it belongs to god", "no" says the man in moscow "it belongs to everyone"
--andrew ryan]
Slorg
Yon Von Tleilaxu Kuxthom Thenxon
Posted 10:48 PM 10/4/08
@chrisagain: 20 years ago, I used to buy games for 495 pesetas.. that is less than 3 $.
Yon Von Tleilaxu Kuxthom Thenxon
chrisagain
Posted 10:46 PM 10/4/08
It's important to remember the price of a game hasn't gone up in over 20 years. If you consider inflation, games are cheaper now than they were 20 years ago. Yet, games today cost ridiculous amounts of money to produce, and more game don't turn a profit than do.
Personally, I support companies for trying to find ways to keep games from being $100+. Though I'm not enthused about the implications of "have" and "have nots" DLC might bring, but games in general stepped into this realm long ago. For FPSs, it's not money that divides players, it's play time. Someone who can sacrifice 10 hours a day to Team Fortress 2 will always have something that prevents the 1 hour a day gamer from enjoying the same game.
chrisagain
Slorg
Posted 10:46 PM 10/4/08
@Sunatic: If people didn't pay for xbox live, it wouldn't be free right now. That's ridiculous. You might see a free online service in some form, but it would be terrible. All that hardware costs millions, and they need to constantly add more, who would pay for that? What about all the staff that are required? The insurance, legal fees, electricity etc?
Luke has a good point in his article though, but I don't see any solution to it. People will will always want to get an advantage, whether it's paying for it, hacking, or cheating.
Slorg
Tiberian
Posted 10:38 PM 10/4/08
I agree, it did make a difference as this will be one game free of it and they "may" take notice in future games. Of course, EA as a company are going to look for more ways to make money, this includes charging for new DLC. However "DLC" is downloaded. These guns were on the disk, you were just paying to unlock them. Something you seem to have completely missed. I have no problem with EA or any company charging for new extra content and they obviously can set the price. As an consumer, i'll have the choice to decided whether its worth my money. EA, like any company needs to make money. But they can do it in so many good ways, however paying for a $60 game with content on the disk "locked" and then having to pay additional money is not the way.
Tiberian
crapsh00t
Posted 10:38 PM 10/4/08
I don't understand this referral to "the money." "The money" that's under discussion here is the fucking $60 I'd spend on a game with lessened content, not the $2 Million that EA thinks it's entitled to through DLC.
Game companies: If the content is within your hands when you go gold, put it on the fucking disc.
And while Luke can argue that t