This makes me want to see a game set in a castle that's so ancient that only some of the booby traps work, others are useless, and others inadvertantly destroy the place. I'm thinking the general aesthetic would be like Ico.

Bernard McGraw

I've been wasting a lot of time on this site recently, but I honestly found its videogame section a bit lacking - the witty observations never seemed especially observant or witty. The television section, on the other hand, is much more incisive.

I'm thinking a lot of this is down to the fact that the gaming medium is not only younger, but matured during a post-modern age. A lot of the gaming tropes pointed out by the site have already been pointed out by the games themselves. Earthbound, MGS2, even Serious Sam... as I was reading through the site, rather than learning about gaming tropes, I was learning about just how deconstructionist the medium can be.

(and yes, this happens in TV too, but not on the same scale)

Just be warned that there's a huge amount of Wiki editorial schizophrenia on there (paragraphs consisting of several sentences, each countering the one before it). It doesn't ruin the site, but it's distracting.

But hey, it's a Wiki - no real reason why we can't all join in to help level the playing field. Fun site.

frostcircus

Guys, that grand list of console RPG cliche's comes from a list that has been on the internet for quite a while.
The original is here: [project-apollo.net]

Sofox

This reminds me of the classic:

"Crates...has anyone actually seen these in real life, you know, anywhere?"

jonathan

@Morberis: That's unfortunately a rather common error, even without links. Try refreshing the page a few times.

Nirual

It never had a good server, which is sad, because the definitions are laugh out loud funny. But, when you get a link from Kotaku, you get traffic. Lots.

Kaljin

@Dude From Dubai:

I think tb games the turn based nature is supposed to be an abstraction of the actual action occuring, otherwise you wouldn't have enough time to coordinate 3-4 people and strategise.

Morberis

Hmmmm.... How about in "classic" RPGs, everyone patiently waits to have the opposing party attack them..

Dude From Dubai

If I were an architect, I'd construct nothing but Malevolent buildings. Perhaps these game designers all feel the same?

i_lie_to_fit_in

The site seems to be down.

he database hates you right now. The entry might exist or it might not exist. We would clear this mystery up for you, if we could get to the database. We tried to look it up, but the database puked up an error:Lost connection to My SQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 0

Morberis

Evil Tortie's Mom

Most any warehouse or office building in the Pokemon games would fit right in with that one.

I mean, rooms only accesible by teleports? Invisible walls? WTF!?

TRT-X

@petedmeatv: Have you played or seen any of the Minerva levels for Half-Life 2? They tackle your exact complaint, and wrap excellent gameplay around it. Which pretty much nullifies the "yeah, but that won't play well" excuse. :]

frostcircus

As someone who's worked in Architecture for a good number of years now, in-game buildings that just don't make sense as an everyday working, livable structure has always bugged the crap out of me.
I guess it'd be an interesting challenge to design levels within a game that are both interesting to play through while still functioning as places within which people could live and work.

petedmeatv

Pff I wish Hyrule Castle was an intricate maze. It is more accurately described by words like "boring", "straightforward", "easy".

Krytha

@Eirias: I do the same thing. I have an addiction to useless trivia and factoids, and wikis are my enabler.

ShaggE

@Eirias: just one of the many advantages of living your life with a clickety-click

frostcircus

I've kinda wondered that- I'm waiting for the next Zelda to have a detailed justification behind the traps of temples (Like, I understand mostly about the beasts lurking in the temple to subdue a great terror and whatnot, with sacrifices, praying, etc.... but OoT's temples had no real 'place to pray or whatever'. Maybe a room for that, then a secret door leading to the traps 'n stuff?)

But the Zelda nerd in me refuses to hold it against the franchise.

Mesren_Makai

On another note, is anyone else addicted to Wikis? I go one Wikipedia to search for one thing and, four hours later, Firefox is wondering if I really want to close 100 tabs...

Eirias

Ah videogames. Constantly throwing away any resemblence to everyday logic. Sometimes you just have to take time - like the composers of this list have - to look at how completely bizarre the inner workings of some of the game worlds are. And yet we have come to accept them, understand them and accept them as the norm. And its great - reality is so dull.

Like just yesterday, for example, I was thoroughly dissapointed after firing a few rounds into a random barrell and it didn't explode.

johnny_ultimate

How about that strange cliche whereby all sports titles are re-released every year despite there being no important changes?

kitkatu

TV Tropes is truly an institution of humor when it comes to dissecting the hows and whys of modern storytelling.

Eirias

@Mesren_Makai:
Wouldn't at least some of the prayer rooms be the Boss rooms?

Mr. Fap☆Fap!

@Mesren_Makai: I assume the altar room is also the boss room.

Torgen got his apology faceplate but not his fixed GH3 disc

@Eirias: Bathroom Readers are my offline drug of choice. The layout is just perfect for on-the-go brain candy.

ShaggE

@ShaggE: Oh, I am so very addicted to trivia. An Incomplete Education, all of Schott's Miscellanea, the Book of General Ignorance, and a subscription to Mental Floss since day one all say that.

Eirias

i've always wondered how the ancients made doors that open when you get near them, still today we only see those in grocery stores...and how do people seemingly carry tons of crap with them at all times. take Link for instance, he's so freaken strong, and has a marry poppins bag, that he can carry A FREAKEN BALL AND CHAIN, AND IRON BOOTS (which only weigh him down when it's in his hands/on his feet),60 bombs,60 arrows, four glass bottles that are indestructible, three outfits(one of which is metal armor), two swords/shields, the list goes on

mistercow.pnoy

The Wiki keeps messing up on me. It keeps taking me to a page where all the links take me to an edit page, not the actual link.

armchairnixon: wishes he had Xbox Live...

@jonathan: you know, I understand the joke about that but my local wal-mart, an older smaller one, has "crates" (pallets of shrink-wrapped boxes) placed randomly in the most inconvenient places, sometimes forcing me to go all the way down a very long aisle just to get to the other side.

This is kind of like inconveniencing crates in a video game. Clearly the trend is way too common in games but still, it DOES happen IRL sometimes.

cybereal

@Eirias: I'll definitely check it out.

ShaggE

BTW, "An Incomplete Education" is perhaps the greatest compilation of important and interesting information in existence. Buy it.

Eirias

@jonathan:

Second.

Scruffy_the_Janitor

@Sofox: "The original is here: [project-apollo.net]"

Nicer than a database that hates on you. This particular rule gave me an idea:

"Let's Start From The Very Beginning (Yuna Rule)
Whenever there is a sequel to an RPG that features the same main character as the previous game, that character will always start with beginner skills. Everything that they learned in the previous game will be gone, as will all their ultra-powerful weapons and equipment."

Yep, this is a stand-by. Here's an idea, programmers: how about an RPG where you start off with all of your character's skills and super powers and you gradually lose them as you play the game, introducing that all-important difficulty curve in a new and novel way.

mariospants

Unrealistic design is sort of, inherent, to videogames.

I mean, functionality generally means no real challenge, and since challenge is the cornerstone of gaming, that's the first realistic design element thrown out.

Course, some gamers are less unrealistic than others.

WolvenOne

@Eirias:
So true. I do it so often and without thinking that I assume everyone must, right?

MikeTheSpike

@mariospants: Brilliant. But why limit it to RPGs? That idea would work in any genre.

It also seems so obvious that it surely must have been done already... and yet I cannot think of a single example, which is just bizarre! It is a great concept that would work perfectly for both gameplay and story.

Some of the Castlevania and Metroid games sort of do it, minus the word 'gradually,' and the equipment-strip was also kind of a mainstay of FPS games for a while (it's probably on the tropes list), but that's not really the same thing.

A strategy game where you fight a losing war, with your tech tree working in reverse. An apocalyptic FPS where ammo simply runs out, forcing the combatants to resort to cruder and cruder weapons. An action hero with a debilitating illness (perhaps MGS4 will do this). It's a rich concept. I hope devs read Kotaku.

frostcircus

It's a trap, TV Tropes will consume your life.

Danin

@frostcircus: Didn't they solve that problem in metroid prime? You start off with all your upgrades (Cept super ones) then loose them right away..

xpnet

Damn. I really want to read this, but between DATABASE HATES YOU and this wiki's uncanny tendency to take me to the edit page instead of the regular old reading page for no-f'ing-reason, I just can't.

@xpnet: You weren't paying any attention at all, were you?

Moonshadow101

@frostcircus: Usually good games have decent excuses at least. Castlevania games are (as far as I remember) set at least a hundred years between each other. Samus' suit gets pretty trashed at the beginning or end of each Metroid game.

But I like the idea of making the player character weaker rather than stronger...

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

@Sofox: Yeah i remember when this list started like... 10 years ago.

belo

@mariospants: Max Payne 2 sort of did that; you started with a 9mm, built up to AK47s and Automatic shotguns, then the game would take it away from you, usually for a perfectly good reason. Then you'd have to struggle to build your arsenal back up again.

This happens at least twice, not counting the two occasions you have to play as an entirely separate character, albeit with nigh-identical moves. And the sequence when Max is in a hospital, trying to avoid gun-toting killers, with no guns whatsoever.

Jonn

@Jonn
I loved that bit in the hospital. The dude was right outside the room with a gun, and I was just like...oh shit. It was awesome.

Also, anyone else remembering WarIII: TFT, Undead Campaign? I loved that-having Arthas lose his powers for several missions was a cool twist on the Hero mechanic, and it wasn't annoying because you were still leveling up Anub'Arak, Sylvanas, and Varimathras.

KillianD

Perfect article. They are really pointing out some fairly obvious points. Maybe one designer could challenge those clichés by making a fun RPG with real building structures.

amadeus3000

@Danin: It's true... At least for a while... Wikipedia did the same thing to me...

bobtheduck

Just so you know, the tropes wiki slowed to a crawl as soon as you reported it... Obviously their servers aren't as powerful as Kotaku / gawker...

bobtheduck

Yea...I'm quite addicted to that site. So easy to lose hours on end in that stuff.

Rebochan

Mesren_Makai

If your temple doesn't have ancient booby traps, you're going to the wrong kind of temple.

Protector one

I honestly spent waaaaaaay too much time going through all that and its links.

Very informative though.

Dr.Chocobo

I couldn't tear my interest away from that bleedin site. God I'm so sleepy right now.

StartRunning

Thank you again, Kotaku, for K-bombing another of my favorite sites. Oh well, it IS worthy of exploration anyway. And most of it is true, too. Check out "With a Herring" - made me laugh for a while.

EldrinOS

That site is probably the most addicting thing this side of WoW and illicit drugs.
God knows how many hours I've spent reading through all of the entries there.
It's good to see it linked by Kotaku

wolfyFTW