I dislike this game, not for the reasons above, but because the audience it aims for. I mean its like a 5,000 piece puzzle. Say I buy the game, I must take time out of all other games like COD4,5; MASS EFFECT 1,2;Left 4 Dead; RE:5; GTAIV; SR2, and a lot of other i have yet to beat, play, and buy. I mean this litterly has to be the only game you play for a long time, just to be fair or good not even an expert. All I'm saying is that, back then there where hardly no racing games, now you have a $#!+ Load, even more to come. IF YOU PLAN ON BUYING BE READY TO STOP PLAY ALL THE GAMES YOU HAVE EVER BOUGHT.
P.S. Past GT player

TheTime

just remember this kids, without GT, i sincerely doubt would we even see Forza. Imitators are nice, but the real deal is the real deal.

pandafresh

@ManjiKengo: The new driving assist that shows the racing line and break points is excellent. I'm sure it will be included in GT5 next year, so maybe you should give it a go when it finally comes out. You never know, there may be a demo (1 track, 2 cars!) hitting the psn that showcases it for you before the eventual release.

1981suede

Unless they give prologue owners a chance to download the rest of the game for 20$ I really don't find this fair.
But w/e, I'm not too big of a fan anyway, gonna wait for GT5.

tehFluffz

Damn fine review

kifbox

@LittleBigPlaneteer: They better stop trying to sell bumper car racers as simulators then.

HaydenTenno

@LittleBigPlaneteer: gt hd + gt5 prologue. but "whatever" now I'm just trolling. I gotta get to work have a good day all.

ManjiKengo

So GT5p is a rip-off, lacking in content and totally under delivering?

Sounds just like Sony :)

edhe (xbl)

@ExMcCloud:

I heard about that actually, but wasn't that just a rumor? Can you give me a source on car companies preventing real car damage to their cars.

LittleBigPlaneteer

I'll pay $20, sorry won't do $40 for this :(

i can show off the graphics on other games =/

Zaos

@1981suede: The free demo for army of two contains 2 hours of actual game play.

But yeah....I'll have to say "we'll see" when it comes to that being fixed.

Honestly though, I'm not a fan of racing sims. I hate the difficulty when it comes to keeping the car proper and on the track. I used to play GT when it was on the ps1 but I got bored of it quick. (the only reason I got forza 2 was because of the stupid pack in with marvel ultimate alliance. I thought I might enjoy forza 2 but lo' and behold, I hated it but ate up pgr4)

ManjiKengo

@LittleBigPlaneteer: If you do your research they can't do full realistic car damage in Sim games because the car companies won't allow it...Thats the reason Burnout doesn't use real cars....The freakin car companies complain about their cars getting destroyed....Thats one of the things Turn 10 complained about so to make up for it the did realistic car performance damage, if you crash at 120 MPH your car won't work anymore, or if you car the wrong way your tires will under perform as far as the similation goes GT has a long way to beat Forza....And the indicator sounds like the one in Forza lets see if GT tweaked it a little damage scaling and the assist should make the game that much better...Im glad GT is focusing more on the simulation now though and not just how pretty the cars look.

ExMcCloud

@Spoony Bard: Yeah, you tell him! He's destroying our hobby by purchasing things he likes!

Fuck you, consumers!

(my GT5 prolouge pre-order is paid off)

baxterpunch

@Islandkiwi:

I think the answer is simple: Polyphony are perfectionists. They already stated that they won't add damage modeling until it's perfected. I imagine it takes a hell of a long time to truly make each car damage as they would physically in real life. They could just make damaging the same for all cars, but that's not the Polyphony way. That'd be like them making each car handle the same. Blasphemy for some.

People don't understand how time consuming these things are. It takes months to make every single car in the game, and it'll take even longer to make damage physics for each. But nope, the majority can't grasp the development side. They want gimmicky damaging like Forza. Polyphony doesn't do gimmicks.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@LittleBigPlaneteer: i see what you mean.. i have been playing DiRT on Pro difficulty, and getting a terminal damage 90% into the race is annoying.. but Luke has a point, the GT series need some sort of a Collision Modelling - which may be coming this fall

jBat17

@BobbyMills: No clue on how GT5 handles the racing line assist, but Forza sort of did tell you how fast you needed to be going. Not an explicit MPH value, but the racing line color was dynamic. Green, you can speed up. Yellow/red, slow down.

megahurtz

@Spoony Bard: No, but I do buy Pro Evolution Soccer every year :)

Look, I'll get more hours out of GT5P than say Heavenly Sword and it's cheaper. Dismiss my opinion all you want but there are obviously plenty of people out there who agree with me.

1981suede

@BobbyMills: Well, Forza has the arrows that change from red to yellow to green to tell you if you are going too fast, a little too fast, or just right.

Sounds like pretty much the same thing...just one has a numerical value while the other gives you a visual clue on your speed.

Queasy

@ManjiKengo: A demo in my opinion contains a single track and a few cars. This has 6 tracks each with two configurations which makes driving them very different. All the cars can be tweaked and the game looks DAMN fine.

I appreciate your point in relation to the broken multiplayer and it is annoying, but in my experience these issues are often fixed. I'm not defending the fact that there are issues, especially considering the online play is a considerable part of the game/value.

1981suede

I want GT5...the full one.

IntelSilver

@LittleBigPlaneteer:

Perhaps so, but I'd rather they add it. Playing without some form of damage modeling is archaic and hokey. Why not set an option where you can turn off damage modeling.. I believe Forza already does this.

Islandkiwi

@superHOOKIE:

That's what I was thinking. Plus, it's a racing game. You're more likely to play tracks multiple times, so I don't buy the whole "finished in a day" crap. I could finish a Tony Hawk game in a day, but that doesn't mean i don't go back and replay levels, even just to skate around. Weird example I know, but it's the first that came to me.

LittleBigPlaneteer

Have had this game since the 26th but didn't try the online until today.

And I'm disapointed, not only with errors (the same as those Luke wrote about) but also competitors who "cheats". Pressing me on the grass, trying to spin the car around by bumping the rear side of my car.. I guess I'll be playing online only with friends and people I know from forums.

On the rest, I kind of agree with Luke, but I love the GT series and this game is worth the 350NOK ($68,39) i paid for it.

Gjerven

Wait a minute here. Sony is expecting us to pay $40 for a demo with six tracks and broken online functionality? Then we have defenders of this game saying that I am full of shit because we have been pointing out the obvious money grab of this situation. Why are they releasing a demo anyway? Why not wait until there is a finished product? The beautiful thing about Sony games is that they are done until they are really done and really don't care about time frames or deadlines.

But whatever the fanboys will continue to eat anything Sony even though Sony appears to be sacrificing quality in order to rid themselves of their "there are no games" label.

Leobebes

@LittleBigPlaneteer: and I live in USA.

djricekcn

So basically what they're doing is selling a half assed unfinished version of the game for $40? I can get the full version of Mario Kart Wii for the same price at Sam's Club.

mrplow8

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Ah thanks, I did wonder to be honest. :D

Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer

I finished Uncharted in a day...does that make it less than full value?

superHOOKIE

@djricekcn:

Luke resides in Australia

LittleBigPlaneteer

Though "Collision Modelling" is a valid review complaint, this is more of a design choice for the game then a problem. GT is and will always be about looking pretty/realistic and the pursue of the perfect lap/race. I.E. The object of the game is to race perfectly and have total control and familiarity of your car to obtain the best lap time possible. Because of this, hitting walls and other cars will never be give the detail of importance, because it's simply not. Because that's not the object of GT. Now, Burn Out Paradise on the other hand - it's entirely the point of the game and thats why it's "Collision Modelling" is spectacular.

The Ridge Racer series suffers from the same formula, it's just more Arcade style in it's gameplay format.

-Niric

Niric

@Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer:

It's because it's being sold worldwide now and has a much larger audience. If Prologue was never sold in America, and was just sold in Japan and Europe it wouldn't be getting such a backlash. People act like this whole "Prologue" thing is new.

LittleBigPlaneteer

I don't know if this is because I'm playing on the Japanese one, but i have never experienced that car flickering before and I have a pretty crappy connection. Are USA (and EU) using a different server?

I do agree that the ONLINE PLAY of GT5P is pretty bad though...

djricekcn

@1981suede: It's people like you who happily shell out $50-$60 every year for the Madden Expansion Pack.

Spoony Bard

@sascha23: Yeah. I heard it hit around a million preorders over there. They must love some Turismo.

Good review.

Magic Emperor Anima

Damage modeling man! GT5 had better have FULL DAMAGE MODELING!!! I KNOW that the PS3 is more than powerful enough to handle any level of physics needed for GT5. Stupid bastards. :(

Blah-Blah-Blah

I dont remember all of this resistance towards GT4 Prolouge...$40? Its more than that in Europe but people dont seem to care here. :D

Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer

@Queasy: forza doesn't tell you what speed you need to enter a corner. That's pretty much the only difference that somehow makes it 'better' than forza. But look, if the final games has weather and damage, forget Forza, this will be the game to get.

BobbyMills

@1981suede: Do you honestly believe yourself?

These games we play, a majority aren't even WORTH 60 bucks(shit should be 49.99 tops). GT 5 Prolouge is and will always be a demo. A demo that SHOULD have been free(gthd till they renamed it and upped the content and visuals)

Also you say "when the multiplayer is fixed" and it's worth 40 bucks for you. that's a big WHEN, considering....

ManjiKengo

Looks like I'm going to have to wait until the full product comes out. Doesn't look like it matters to the Europeans though. ;)

sascha23

Good review Luke. This game(Prologue) is definitely not for everybody. It's funny how everybody is already comparing it full games like Forza2 or PGR4. This game is made for people like me who is a total GT fanatic going all the way back from PS1. But I totally understand why people wouldn't like this game. I'm just not one of them. $40 to me is a bargain compare to what I paid for Motorstorm and Burnout Paradise. There are a lot of racing games out there but there's only one GT.

thegunshow

I cant believe that in this day and age of extremely advanced games, and with the enormous power of the ps3 to work with, they failed to:

a. Have decent online play
and
b. get rid of the bumper-cars gameplay.

beautiful graphics, beautiful realism, not enough fun, in my opinion.

squidboy007

looks like i'll be waiting a little longer.

subterfunk

I feel like people don't understand what they're going to get if Gran Turismo adds realistic car damage. Forza's car damage is purely shit. You go into a wall at 120MPH and you get some minor looking dents. You do that for real and your car is totaled. You might not even be able to drive it anymore.

Does the majority of people want that much realism? So much so that it stops them from finishing races because of the damage? Would that not frustrate more people than satisfy?

Say for instance that they add unrealistic damage like what Forza has. Would people not bitch about that too, saying that for a game that brags about being a car simulator it's damage is unrealistic? That's why I feel Polyphony is damned if they do, damned if they don't

LittleBigPlaneteer

I always wanted to like GT but could never get into it.

OGHowie

Rental

MASOCHIST187

It really seems like if you buy this game you deserve a discount when the full game is released. Me, I'm waiting on the finished product.

Islandkiwi

I disagree Luke. It's easily worth $40. You say it took a day to finish the single player then that equates to a few dollars per hour. Mix in the multi player when it's fixed and it becomes good value in my book.

1981suede

So as a vidya game seller, I should do what I had planned?

Tell the customers that they may purchase it, but it is far from a complete game. Thanks.

ManjiKengo

Until very recently, I thought Sony selling a DEMO for $40 was a joke, it was just too stupid for me to believe. Then, when I finally had enough evidence in front of me that I had to believe it, I convinced myself that there would be like, 25 tracks: too few for a full release, but decent for a hilariously expensive demo. Now... to hear that there are 6 tracks, with one good one? Wow, just, wow.

usfslacker

You have got to be kidding me. They're charging $40 for what is essentially a demo? $20 I could see, as it's a bit beefier than most demos ... but $40?! That's low. Really low.

I'll just contiune to play the shit out of GT4.

dead_red_eyes

I think this one is a must buy only for the GT fans. I liked the GTHD demo, but never considered myself a GT fan. I'm pretty sure I'll pick up the real game (GT5) when it ships.

DigiMish

GT5 Prologue online was incredibly disappointing. Me and a few friends all bout this at release, rushed home and found that there was no way we could race against each-other.

I don't care about racing a bunch of people I don't know, have never met and will likely never meet. there is no difference between that and racing the computer controlled cars. If all I can do is race random unknowns in a glitchy fashion, there are a million and one better things I can be doing with my bandwidth.

This just reinforces my tongue in cheek belief that the PS3 is for people without any friends.

It should be mandatory for any racing game developer doing network multi-player to play Burnout Paradise to learn how to do it right.

djack

Ouch...still getting it. Need something other than Hot Shots Golf to tide me over until GTA IV.

superHOOKIE

Great review. I imported a copy and agree with everything you said. I was hoping the update I received would fix the online issues, but it didn't, it was only to add the content found in the US/EU versions.

HaydenTenno

Marshmallow sim racing ???

TxKARATEDUDE

Another excellent review from Kotaku, who I hope is influencing others on the way they do their reviews. Don't just review the game, review it within the context of what the game is supposed to be -- much appreciated -- and no, I won't be dropping 40 bucks on this.

kingclip

Awesome review. I heart you for this Luke. I FUCKING HEART YOU!

Didn't know there was so many online issues

excel_excel

"Difficulty Curve - GT5P's got a new, improved assist mode for beginners, and it's the best I've seen in a racing game. Not only do you get an indicator for where the racing line is and when you need to brake, it actually tells you how fast you need to be going when you hit the braking-point. Very handy."

How different is this from Forza? Forza has had this for 1 & 2. Just curious.

Thanks.

Queasy

after the amount of time polyphony spent on this demo/ "game" I would have expected the blue list to far outweigh the red list.
good review none the less, you saved me $40.00.

Gadgetron

Although the offering may be a little underwhelming, you may have nailed it in the first paragraph.

Serious fans of the series will no doubt already know what they're getting themselves into with this whole "Prologue" business, then, and won't give a monkey's brass balls what I say from here on in.

Appreciate the honesty my man, but I'm definately one of those people. Online never really had the appeal to me with this title as it does with others. The core of the gameplay experience has always been the challenge against yourself. I've yet to play against one of my friends that is actually as good as the AI cars.

I can only hope that the final version features ranked lobbies.

BoffrO

I got this demo paid off. It's been too long since I've played a good racing game. Forza is garbage as far as physics goes. Course I love its online and custom car paint jobs and such. I have no idea if the duder who made Forza even drove half those cars, because I assure you that my WRX drives no where close to the one in forza. They really screwed up the all wheel drive cars in that game.

On damage modeling: They need realistic modelling and physics for collisions. I want my car to look like a crushed coke can if I slam into another car or wall at high speed. That and minor accidents need to let you pull into the pit and strip off body parts so that you can get your car back out there to finish. None of this hanging fenders garbage. That stuff aint real. Damage shouldnt matter that much because if you wreck you pretty much lose a race anyways.

Derigor

I'm not sure what's worse: the $40 price tag or the people complaining about the $40 price tag.

Mantra_

@dead_red_eyes: I totaly agree. In fact, most demos are FREE these days.
For now I'll continue to play GT5's illegitimate lovechild, FORZA 2.

Acute Gamer

@thegunshow: I never said such a thing. Personally I think mario kart for thew wii is a stupid idea.

ManjiKengo

From my perspective, GT HD Concept was pretty much the perfect combination of size (20 cars) and price (FREE!) for me.

I'd frankly rather have seen another free version based around one track and showcasing some of the features they've added since then, as opposed to paying $40 for not much more in the way of new content (esp. as the tracks aren't anything special).

Heck, just give me the long-promised Top Gear track and let me try and beat The Stig's time in the reasonably-priced car, then go finish the game.

Step5555

@Spoony:

Forza 1 came out around the same time as GT4. I think if people want to complain about the GT games not having damage, they've got a valid argument.

maxx77

@HaydenTenno:
The truth is, GT is hardly a simulator anyway. Only someone who hasn't driven a real version of some of the cars would think otherwise. I've driven 2 of the sports cars in the line up of the GT4 and they handle like a turd on ice, in game. In real life the stock versions of the cars handle 3 and 4 times better then their "simulated" ones in GT. It's actually pretty aggravating for car enthusiasts when playing it.

But don't get me wrong, I love the GT series. There's other things to like about it. But to insult GT because it's not a "Real Simulator" like advertised, just means you know nothing about the real cars or the game itself.

-Niric

Niric

I don't mind the damage, although it would be sweet. But the price is really steep for such a small amount of content. And even if you play the same areas multiple times in a racing game... 6 is such a little number.

The online is the one thing that i think it's incredibly disappointing to hear. I haven't played online on my ps3 yet (GHIII hates me apparently), but i've heard a lot of people talking wonders about resistance and warhawk online, so it's bugging my mind how can they screw online on a racing game since those are usually very lag forgiving.

Meh... what do I care, sony doesn't want my online money because i live in mexico and i can't pay for anything unless i get a USA card, so i'll keep using the free stuff only.

Falsoman

They've already announced car damage was coming soon to GT5p in the fall.

But to complain they've never done car damage is silly it hasn't been their fault they are a car simulator because they use real cars and real car companies refused to let you smash their real cars.

I'm sad to hear that online play has been an issue though, that doesn't sound like what I've come to expect from the GT team.

All in all i wish it was cheaper, but i wish every game that has came out was cheaper none of these current generation games have warranted the 60 dollar price tag over the last gen 50 dollar price tag. I understand it just costs more to make. But i will be getting this game if for nothing else as a great game i can have a few friends over with and play until the real version comes out a year or two later.

Spoony

Oh, and just thought I'd throw this out here, to everyone who complains about the collisions: In real world races, cars don't usually go slamming around into each other. This is what you avoid doing.

If you are playing it any other way, then you have deeper issues with what realism is.

Burnout still exists, go buy that.

baxterpunch

Super Long Paid for Demos should be the norm. :) They're better quality and even have demos of their Own.

ph15h

@LittleBigPlaneteer:
Wow, you really do swallow every Sony PR word dont you?

If you honestly belive that PD will get the perfect damage system you are just fooling yourself.
A perfect damage system will have cars rolling and starting to burn ... this will never ever happen on a BMW, Ferrari, VW, Toyota etc

KEELr

@jynxce:

Only Sony could accomplish putting a $40, halfway in production game on the market and get so much acceptance

This!

Leobebes

@Grive:

Well we're discussing the Prologue version. It is in many ways a test drive of the game. A beta if you will, for die hards of the series who want a taste of the game before it's released. There's no such thing as a perfect game, especially one that has online aspects to it. I imagine the full game will improve on just about all the faults found in Prologue, but that's obvious. It's also obvious that the full game will have unseen faults of its own. Perhaps "Perfectionist" isn't the right term for them, since people are taking it so literally. Polyphony just sets their standards pretty damn high.

LittleBigPlaneteer

i appreciate the review, but despite whether or not it would have been positive or negative, i was willing to walk out of a store with this in hand. huge GT fan here

@LittleBigPlaneteer: great points. i would not mind if there is no car damage in the full release as there are a HUGE amount of cars and tracks to overlook this. it has way more than Forza, which is a decent game in itself, but compared to GT? no contest. but an update with this (as previously mentioned in an earlier article) wouldn't hurt either

kw4k

@wild_world_girl: How is it petty? It's very serious business... these games include cars you could go out and buy. Imagine if a game showed two cars slamming into a wall at 100 m.p.h., one a corolla and one a civic. Toyota and Honda are now dependent on the game manufacturer to accurately represent how well the crumple zones work, anti roll features, etc. The players of this game could be influenced to purchase one car over the other, just because the developer promised "realistic damage modeling."

I don't think you will EVER see actual full damage modeling on consumer cars in a video game. The potential damage to a car's reputation is too great for that.

baxterpunch

@1981suede: You can try to justify your purchase all you want but these people already made up their minds about this game. I've done the same but they'll have their opinions and we have ours. Truth to be told is that the same people that are complaining are the same people who don't particularly care about GT in general but they just want to put their .02 in. As long as you're enjoying it then that's all that matters.

How can you really take somebody seriously when they say that "Why pay $40 bucks for GT P when you can buy Mario Kart Wii for $50." I will never buy Mario Kart even if it cost $5 because it's not my cup of tea. But I'm not going to post that opinion in a Mario Kart section because it does not concern me. People just don't understand that everybody has their own preference and some can't accept the fact that it's not the same as theirs. To me GT:P is worth more than most of the "full games" that are out now.

thegunshow

@Grive:

IT'S A DEMO

Gambare

@Zaos:

no one is forcing you to buy it, isn't too complex right?

Gambare

"The Grind" i think thats a good point, it makes the game last longer - rather just buying a nice expensive car and easing through all the races

but oh well :)

I loved it

Fluffy22

@LittleBigPlaneteer:
"I think the answer is simple: Polyphony are perfectionists"

Then why is their multiplayer component such ass??

Leobebes

Only Sony could accomplish putting a $40, halfway in production game on the market and get so much acceptance. What if other devs or even MS release something like Gears 2 or any game for that matter halfway through production as demo with a few MP maps for pay&play -- they would simply get shat upon to no end.

Yet the media and fans have no problem with it...

jynxce

Literally sorry

TheTime

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Thing is, that excuse is hardly reasonable, as the game is quite far from being perfect in pretty much every sense.

Plus, the frankly horrible collision physics (which are a huge part of pretty much all non F1-style racing) are quite far from perfect themselves. As Luke mentioned, a half-assed, forzaish damage system is not necessarily what's needed, just *good* collision physics.

Not saying it's bad, just saying that there's nothing that's it's not "perfect" in any way.

Grive

@LittleBigPlaneteer: It's not a rumor at all. And it is embarrassing for car companies that they must look so "petty" to protect their brand, so you won't likely find written evidence of this, but it is absolutely true, and every scratch and mark that Turn 10 or Polyphony puts on a car needs to be approved by the car companies' lawyers and the back and forth is brutal.

What the makers of Forza were able to get approval for is nothing short of awesome.

wild_world_girl

@DARTH_TIGRIS: Lol. I forgot about that, too. Didn't that Halo beta come bundled with a full game? Now that's a steal!

Smadubaku

@dead_red_eyes: Yeah, no way I'd spend $40 for a demo - hell, I wouldn't even spend $10 for a demo...

I don't think even EA is greedy enough to charge people for demos. Charging full price for roster updates, sure. But not demos. Polyphony Digital has major cajones for that, I'll admit.

seafisch

I wonder if this will come back to bite Polyphany.

I love the GT series. I thought Forza has done a great job of holding me over to GT5, but to me there's only one GT. I think Prologue is shameful exploitation of the fanbase. They will sell millions of copies of Prologue to the unsuspecting, who don't sit on video game message boards, follow development, etc. I hope the people who buy it DO enjoy it and feel they get their $40 worth. If a few cars, fewer tracks, unpolished graphics, and broken online are your thing - have at it.

I will not pay $40 for a demo and %10 of the original. I don't think it's okay to support this kind of behavior from a developer. This is a gateway to the kind of gouging that not a single person on this site wants to have to deal with in the future.

I suspect when GT5 does come around, that same ignorant fanbase might feel a little burned and wary.

Smadubaku

This is just as bad as that Halo 3 beta that cost $60!!!!

Say wha? There was another game with that? Crackdown, you say? And it was a ton of fun that had gamers spending upwards of 20 hours doing wild stuff in single or co-op play?

Oh ...

DARTH_TIGRIS

@Niric: Agreed 100%.

HaydenTenno

@baxterpunch: You misunderstand :) *I* don't think it is petty, but that's the way public perception sees it unfortunately. I'm sure they wish they could just let loose.

wild_world_girl

@edhe (xbl): Nice subtle comment. I was starting to wonder where all the ignorant Sony bashing had gone! We could all learn something from somebody with their XBL tag in their title. Thanks holmes, see ya on Monday!

BoffrO

@Niric: Of course a simulator isn't like driving in real life, that's why it's called simulator. By the way, i can't believe someone let you drive a car that expensive at those speeds. You are the luckiest man in the world.

joebobfunguy

I'm fairly offended at anyone that thinks 5 tracks and a 70+ cars is a demo.

creid

@Niric: Your comment literally didn't make any sense at all.

But I'll attempt to respond: on the box, it says "The Real Driving Simulator" so people expect it to be realistic. (And it is!)

dowingba

So it's just like real racing until I hit something, and then it's like driving a shopping cart. I can't wait to hear more explanations on how collision modeling hurts the gameplay experience.

joebobfunguy

Financing the development of an ambitious game with a souped up demo? What's not to like about that?

Still, it is tempting considering that there is NOTHING else in sight for the PS3 for months. Of course I'd like to play GTAIV in the quiet comfort of that shiny black box, but, everyone who I'd multiplayer with is on the 360. If only I could share my save file, I'd buy GTAIV twice.

d3p0

@Niric:
what cars out of curiosity?

Cause I'll tell you that my wrx and my buick grand national handle pretty damn closely as their in game counter parts once you turn off all their assists. As do several of the other cars in the game that I have driven but dont own.

Derigor

@Everyone - Some of you don't want to subsidize the completion of GT5. Some of you do. Both positions can be reached by reasonable people. Quit implying that people who reach conclusions different than yours bark at the moon and drool on the nice couch.

Personally, I'm getting this. I'm a huge GT fan, and I like to have all the versions of a series when I like it. So there's a collector reason to have it. I have a steering wheel and I've played all hell out of GTHD, so I'd like some different PS3 native GT content. If $40 is the asking price for that in April, well, that's what I will have to pay to get what I already know I want. It's up to me to do the math now, and my personal calculations tell me that $40 is a little steep but not outrageous. For me. That's the fan-with-cash-to-burn-reason. I just read that they are adding collision damage as a download later on. That's a first appearance mechanic in the series, another collector chit.

I do like this review format. Having digested it, I agree with the author's assessment: if you're a fan, you're getting it no matter what the review says short of a declaration that it destroys systems and 10 years after you download it, BAM! Herpes. He didn't say that, right?

SaintWaldo

@ManjiKengo: I wasn't directing anything to you, sorry if it came out that way. I was just telling the guy that as long as he enjoys the game that's all that matters. Like I said, everybody has a preference and that 's why all these different types of games exist. Having different options is what makes gaming amazing.

thegunshow

@usfslacker:

Just for the record, it's Polyphony Digital's deal to sell these demos, not Sony's--they've been doing it with GT for a while now.

And just for the record, I don't give a flip about GT--I won't buy this OR the full version. I'm waiting for WipEout HD, kthx.

~

Hiroken

I like your con about the collision modeling. I never thought about it that way, but if it were to just feel real then I wouldn't mind the lack of the actual damage being modeled. The GT series is also a very different series for car nuts then it is for game nuts. Graphics are sweet, physics are great, but progression in game play is really lacking unless you are into cars. Example: everyone can enjoy Madden (or the 2K games) but if you are really into the sport then you get much more out of it.

Oh yeah, blah blah it is a demo and I feel fine paying $40 for it.

dantheman1000

I was a little put off by the first line of the review, "GT5:P is a demo." I understand that reviews are just opinions and you're entitled to yours but if you reviewed the game with that frame of mind going in, then it's no wonder you thought it wasn't worth $40 by the end of the review.

It's all subjective anyway. Some people will pay $40 for a taste of GT5 and some people won't. Hell, there are people who are buying a PS3 *just* so they can play GT5:P.

rawg

@Kyle81: And I guess Halo and Forza dont have brand name status that anyone cares about. Wow. No I expect people to have bitched so much upon hearing this idea that they would have forced Sony to rethink the strategy of releasing for this price point. Thats not asking much. Its been done. But youre right. The majority is stupid and the majority wins.

Modus_Operandi

It costs US full retail price? Costs UK less than half the going retail price for games, which is good considering it has a similair amount of content to Motorstorm.

Gladman

@wild_world_girl: Even in that game, the extent of the damage is not nearly as realistic as the real thing. The cars in Forza are much tougher than cars in real life. Crashing a Maserati MC12 at full speed will likely look much different in real life than in any track playing XBox.

Kaiser-Machead

@Modus_Operandi: "Sony does it and no one even questions it."

Have you read the previous 100 comments?

baxterpunch

@Leobebes: "Wait a minute here. Sony is expecting us to pay $40 for a demo with six tracks and broken online functionality?"

It's got 60+ cars and six tracks. That's more than some full retail racing games have.

Broken online functionality...I don't know about that. The review sounded more like extreme lag. Whether it's the game or the net connection or something else is anybody's guess. It is a little alarming, but without further information I'm not going to start making any wild assumptions like some people.

Pixelantes Anonymous

@Modus_Operandi: Because people care about Gran Turismo. With brand name recognition comes perks.

And how is Sony getting away with it when everyone is bitching about it?

Or do you expect some kind of morality police to pull them over and give them a rip off ticket?

Kyle81

gt3 and gt4 both had a prologue version that was just like this, only a few tracks, about 1/3 the cars, but they weren't released in the us. everyone in the us bitched and moaned about it not being released here. now for 5, prologue gets released here, and oh no, it's not the full game.. make up your minds, people. if you don't want to pay for the prologue version, don't. just wait till the full version comes out.

trav23

@wild_world_girl: Sure did misunderstand. Thought the quotes meant you thought is way far more than just "petty."

Apologies.

baxterpunch

I guess all other racing games are consider demos if you compare it to the sheer amount of cars and tracks that was in the previous GT series if you really want to argue about how much content should a "full game" have. Which to me just isn't fair to compare other racing games to GT.

thegunshow

Look Im not an MS fanboy as I own each system but I have to say this. If MS had done something like this with a demo for Forza people would have been eating babies in the street. Sony does it and no one even questions it. $40 for a demo. At least when Bungie pulled the same act they gave you a whole game along with it in the form of Crackdown. Sony gets off because the PSN network is free? Lame.

Modus_Operandi

@Kyle81: -sigh- Yeah, you're right. Well, I'll be first in line for GT5. Just wish they'd get a move on. Development really seems to be going a lot slower than necessary. If the past is any indication with GT, it will be worth it.

Smadubaku

"Then it's brutal as hell."
"it's boring as hell."

Wouldn't you also say the online multi-player is "buggy as hell?"

Looks like playing this game is hell. Hell, I think I'll go play something else.

:)

jrleek

@Smadubaku: Again and again and again, the prolugues have been done before, and they didn't affect the sales of Gran Turismo.

Kyle81

I will be buying the game day one! Can't wait! I dont care what anyone says this is a game not a "demo".

GamingNinja

ya know...
I had the impression that Gt wasnt incorporating damage because all the cars are licensed from the makers. and the makers either want Hokey damage or none at all.
they dont want people to see what happens to there cars when they collide, it kinda takes the wind out of driving fast, and buying a fast car to drive fast

sickboy1138

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Forza's damage is the way it is for that very reason. However you can kill your car in 1 hit if you hit a wall as fast as you say. sure the body wont be utterly destroyed but shit will fall off and you will be lucky if you can drive it.

@Smadubaku: I agree, its a total rip off to charge us almost full price for what amounts to a alpha test of the game. If i decide to buy it and I dont fall in love then I wont end up buying GT5 no matter what they add. Instead I will wait for Forza 3 because I already know the AI and Physics in Forza 2 were top notch and thats what is important.

parad0x360

People are obviously forgetting that this isn't the first GT Prologue, and that it actually has a lot more content than GT4 Prologue. They're also forgetting that it has a lot more content than Motorstorm, or the majority of other racing games. As well as the fact that there are actually 12 tracks (reverse or alternate layouts which are completely different to drive around).

I haven't bothered much with the online but they've said they're going to add private servers/invites. Considering you can earn money in online races and how easy it would be to win millions in a few minutes if you have a friend sit on the start straight, it's obvious why it's not in there already.

lordofsword

Let's call it what it is, people -- GT5 Beta.

My guess the game ain't finished, and this is a way to boost a little capital AND get some paying testers in the process.

Hey, didn't Ms. Greene post an article about this a couple days ago? Okay, it was about localization, but this is the concept in action.

boopadoo

@Bon5ai: god bless you for remembering GTR.

Now THAT was a real racing sim: for better or worse.

jp182

@Magic Emperor Anima: funny how only 1/3 of them actually brought the game.

i was think of getting this honestly but then i noticed that it only had 6 tracks...and i quickly lost interest.

Jmontilla2786

Forza is garbage, in response to all those Forza fanbois out there.

This game is going to be good, but in terms of the best racing sim I doubt it will beat GTR by SimBin.

Bon5ai

@DigitalHero - My Brain Hurts:

Because it's not completed yet? Honestly if you're a die hard fan of the series and you're just dying for a taste of the game, what would you prefer: Having the Prologue available just like previous iterations of the game OR waiting a year before you get to play it? Considering nearly 1.5 million games have been sold so far in Europe, I imagine people don't mind having it right now to satiate them while they wait.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@Modus_Operandi: Are you saying that everyone who buys this game is stupid? Or are they just stupid for not bitching about a game they are allowed to not buy?

baxterpunch

Why waste time and effort with Prologue when you could have just released the full version of Gran Turismo 5. It's going to take a bunch more to make me pay for a glorified demo.

DigitalHero - My Brain Hurts

The way I see the whole "It's just a demo" "debate" is that Digital Polyphony has been completely open about what the Prologue version is and what is not. Anyone who is buying the game knows what they're getting into.

Personally, as a big racing game (1st GT game though) fanatic, it's well worth $40. Some people disagree. They probably won't buy it.

The mere fact that it has Kimi Raikkonen's 2007 World Championship Ferrari F1 car alone would probably make me go get this game, but I know that's just me.

Pixelantes Anonymous

@seafisch: EA doesn't charge for demos, sure. But then again, let me play that Madden demo I just downloaded -

Oh, right.

Spoony Bard

I'm all about online racing, because I'm never satisfied with AI drivers, so I need real human agains human racing.

Online right now has more problems than just lag and the bumper cars approach with the wierd penalty point system for crashes.

The other online problems are

1. No voice chat at all.
2. No ability to play with friends it's 100% random rooms without voice chat. A lonely, anonymous experience.
3. When hosts drop the room crashes.
4. No lobbies, so you're in a race and then dropped out.
5. No ability to customize the online races (ie no settings).
6. Leaderboards...

All of these things can be fixed by the time GT5 releases, but for now Prologue is really either a demo or a beta depending on how you look at it.

JackB99

@1981suede: Haha, look, I didn't mean to come off as an ass. Look, what I'm saying is that everyone is entitled to spend their hard earned cash however they see fit. But I don't agree with this decision by Sony, and I'm just making my voice heard, as are many others.

I played the demo of GT Prologue and enjoyed it, but I just don't feel that it offers enough for $40. Hell, I played GT HD LOTS of times, and that was just on ONE TRACK! So I'm sure that you and others will get plenty of play out of it.

Again, I just don't agree with the price personally. And I don't agree with those that buy this and support this type of release. Nor do I support those who buy the same sports game every year just for the rosters. You're just allowing them to justify gouging the customer - which is ultimately you and me both.

Spoony Bard

$40 for a demo? That's a joke right? I think I prefer cakes as an April fools joke.

PurpleMonkey

@LittleBigPlaneteer:

And Turn 10 has low standards? Please

When all is said and done, the GT damage modeling is probably going to be purely cosmetic in nature anyway.

Snuffbox

people, just dont fucking pay the $40, that is all you have to do! thats it! just dont play the game!

pandafresh

The reason I dropped $35 (thanks $5 GT5P amazon coupon!) was because this is a work in progress. Polyphony is going to be adding stuff to Prologue constantly until GT5 comes out, allegedly.

This will be the first PS3 game disc inserted into my year old PS3.

Canadian Impostor

As a work in progress (as a fan of the series) I can agree with some things but, as a Racing fan:

1) The grind is to be expected. The same can be said for Forza, Moto GP, or GTR2. You race for money... you win/lose...rinse and repeat.

2) 6 tracks.... Its a demo.

3) Collision Model... I'm not sure what setup you have or even what settings you tested but on "simulation mode" the handling and collision kicks up a notch even on my old GT3 wheel. But for the full effect I was glad to have played it on the Logitech G25 at the NYC 2008 Car Show. The G25 had excellent feedback but if your playing with the dualshock 3 or less don't expect the feel of a car through a controller.

dadeisvenm

Good review. Exactly what I expected. I'm a huge GT fan but there is no way I'd support the $40 price tag on a demo.

I can't believe so many people don't realize the fools they're being taken for. But then again there's that old saying: "A fool and his money are soon parted".

skink

Ugh, the prospect of a $40 demo immediately made me lose any interest I may have had.

Strangelove

No amount of damage modelling can represent what Polyphony is doing to their reputation and goodwill.

celery

@LittleBigPlaneteer:
You clearly not have put Forza 2 on "Simulation Damage" because if you did you would only be able to go 5mph.

/sigh fanboys.

I think what the major issue is that, you're getting essentially a multiplayer demo, yet the multiplayer is quite broken. From what I got through friends and following comments here, you cannot play with friends, no voice chat and it is very laggy. If Forza did this (selling a broken demo for $40) next game they make, you can be sure that I'll be as mad as hell. I'm sure the finished and final product will be a great game, I have no doubts about that. But the development process is taking too long, and this I think will tick off anyone who was interested.

Covert_Knight

@Bon5ai:
Forza is garbage, in response to all those Forza fanbois out there.

It is? When I played it I thought it was one of the best racing packages in the history of videogames. You must be a hard man to please. To outright call a game that was hailed by critics "garbage" must mean that you taste in forms of entertainment eclipse those of the great Roger Ebert and the food critic from Ratatouille.

Leobebes

I haven't been keeping track of GT5's development- racing games more sophisticated than, say, DiRT, are just too damned hard to control- but I was pretty shocked to see the sticker price on this thing.

How could this not be a bad idea? Especially for the people who don't read these gaming sites and wander into a best buy and hand over $45 for what is really a demo?

I'm sure that a ton of GT fans are psyched to play anything at all- but they're gonna get burned by the folks who thought they were buying a racing game. I doubt the box actually says "Demo" or "not a finished game" on it, does it?

KilgoreTrout__XL

I was expecting alot more from it... the graphics are nowhere near as good as the awesome trailers IMO (though I didn't see the London track etc., didn't have the heart to play enough of the single player).
The game is $60 Australian which is a joke, the ONLY reason I would want to keep playing right now is for the Ferrari F1 car.
And let it be said, Forza 2 is still by FAR the premier driving game on consoles, the driving is like 10x more realistic, GT physics are still the same as they have always been, aside from visuals, Forza wins out easily (gameplay, sound, car damage, good online, actually SEE and FEEL a difference when you do up cars, custom paint jobs etc).

Let's hope Sony can get their act together for the final one, they DO have another year..

Y2Jason

@JackB99: So it's using Nintendo WFC? Oh wait, not even friend codes.

Torgen thinks AAA means “Costs $60”

@Gam3r: I think it's because "$40 dollar demo" is fun to say or something. Notice how the thought goes from "somewhere between a game and a demo" to "glorified demo" to "little more than a demo" to "just a demo." Someone, please, tell me where I can find these magical expansive racing demos? I'm guessing most people haven't even played a modern racing demo lately.

Forza 2? You got one track and like 24 cars. Moto GP? One track and one bike. PGR4? I remember 2 tracks, and I think you could pick one of two vehicles for each. DiRT? 3 events, and you are stuck with the car they give you. NFS ProStreet? 2 events, and you can't choose what cars you drive.

Really, where are you people getting your demos?

baxterpunch

Given the responses here, ranging from boredom or feeling that Sony has a gun pointed to their heads forcing them to buy it, a western release may have been a mistake.

Remember GT4? That had a Prologue version released only in Japan. I bet that Japanese players didn't whine though, and most waited for the full version.

SG79

It's not a demo at all, it's much more expansive. In racing demos you usually can access only 1-3 cars & 1-3 tracks and that is the only thing you can do. This is a much much larger experience than a demo, and its sad to see people writing it off as merely like a demo.

Gam3r

I didn't really need to grind except on S class races. Also online worked fine for me. It lacks many things, but still work.
It's really worth of that 40e imo. but then again GT is the only racing series that i play and like. So i don't really have any other racing game to buy. hehe.

TaMs

@kommanderk: when some one can smash you out of the way and just take over the lead.
I do that, it works surprisingly good some times :>

My complaints about this game so far:
* No replays for splitscreen
* It doesn't seem like you can have different control layouts for different players
* The sense of speed isn't that good

Haven't tried online yet...
(I should note that I usually enjoy arcady racing games more)

Harteex

@baxterpunch: its more of the fact you are playing 40 bucks for a gt "demo" that doesnt ahev 40 bucks worth of the final game you will be paying 60 for.

it doesnt matter what you say it is, its a demo they make you pay for. add that to the final game price and thats 100 dollars + what ever microtransactions that will surely come

kommanderk

you know what? i think the problem here truly is the fact people arent reading the "prologue" part of GT5: Prologue.

pandafresh

@LittleBigPlaneteer: "Polyphony are perfectionists. They already stated that they won't add damage modeling until it's perfected."
Er...that doesn't explain the broken online play then

excel_excel

Online play has serious issues? Thats wierd because ive not seen these problems and ive played a HELL of a lot more than 30 online games.
The flickering cars you talk about are players that have messed up and have the potential to take out others that are coming up behind or alongside them.So basically players who spin out or deliberatly try and fuck everyone up by crashing,driving the wrong way etc cant spoil anothers game!
Sure it isnt perfect but i thought it was a pretty damn smart way of doing it and it isnt so sensitive that it stops the bumping and nudging of each other in a hot race which can be real fun.The racing is supposed to be hard,its competative but whilst your thinking how hard it is the ones out in front are laughing as they leave you behind yet again for the 10th time.
Dont blame the game for you not being as good as the other players.
The game is astounding fun and having now played it i would have gladly payed double what i did pay for it which was £19.99, and considering most ps3 games vary from £39.99 to £49.99 so it was less than 50% of the average game.

UFO

@wild_world_girl: haah thats a total pile of bull, games didnt have car damage early onbecause it was harder to do, it has NOTHING to do with the car companies not likeing it

its 100% bullshit that gameing fanboys came up with as an excuse.

as for damage, i dont really give a rats ass it isnt 100% realistic in forza, the bigger point is it effects your cars handeling, which has a huge impact on raceing. its not fun to play multiplayer raceing when some one can smash you out of the way and just take over the lead.

i playd all the gt games and enjoyd them but ultimatly got bored of them fast. Forza is actually fun and plays more like a game. though I would say id take gt over forza if they fixed a few things. damage being one of them.

kommanderk

Even though 6 tracks is more than the standard 3 tracks FREE demo, a demo stays a demo, and it's not worth 40$. Online multiplayer? I don't know about PS3, but we've got a lot of free online multiplayer demos, such as Frontline, Army of Two, Splinter Cell, etc.

reptile168

@alba:
Oh THAT's what "Prologue" means -- Buggy, Lacking in Content, and Over-Priced.

And here I thought Prologue just meant Introduction. You know, the actual meaning.

When I played Prologue all I was thinking was "Prologues are supposed to give you a taste of the full thing to come, if all I'm gonna get is more of this, they can keep it." It has absolutely no redeeming virtues outside of the eye-candy (which is bountiful).

And I'm a HUGE GT fan -- I bought a PS2 JUST to play GT on. And the PS3, which has seen other titles in it, GT was 95% of the driving force (no pun intended) behind that purchase.

SigmaHyperion

@celery: Thumbs Up.

ckranger11

@excel_excel: Because outside of the private GT4 online part that wasn't released and was only in beta in japan, this is their first online GT that's why it's basic for now but they'll keep updating the game and it's been confirmed private lobbies are coming along with damage this fall.

As for the previous (most of the comments for the idiots) it's GT5: [b]Prologue[/b] hope you get the prologue part, so it's a good way for PD to test it out, it's mostly aimed a GT fans and so and if you think it's too expensive, then just don't fucking buy it, it's THAT simple.

alba

The GRIND is why I stopped playing GT4 after a couple of days and haven't picked it up since. And GT4 was the reason I bought a damn PS2 to begin with (fortunately I found other games to justify the purchase).

Oh, and the car info going away. That pissed me off. The little narratives that you saw in GT1, 2 and 3 when you went to buy a car. I missed that. I read the entire manual hoping there was some button I had to press to see it, but no.

GT4 left such an awful taste in my mouth I would have to be completely assured that all that shit was long gone before I'd even consider getting GT5.

I want Gran Turismo 2, except with better physics, better graphics, more tracks, and more cars.

@Fluffy22:
It's a cheap and lazy way to make a game longer. It makes the game longer at the cost of making people want to spend less time playing it.

TechnoDestructo

@edhe (xbl):

Your XBL tag reveals you stupidity, therefore your stupid comment.

neoraul20

Oh please. It's not a demo.

71 cars. Six tracks... many of which has more than one version. For example, Daytona and Suzuka. Both have short version and a long version. Some tracks can be driven the other way around... almost becomes a whole new track.

The game has 10 challenges/races in four classes: A, B, C and S. Thats a total of 40 races.

And now I'm not counting the manufactures races, which would make this number a lot higher.

It has online play. I have never seen a demo with online play (maybe laggy for you, but works PERFECTLY here in Norway).

You have 2-player split screen, Time Trail mode and a Drift Mode.

So please shut up with the demo talk. It's not a full game, hence the price tag, but it's not a demo.

Last time I played a racing demo, it had two tracks and three cars. One game mode. No multiplayer etc.

Not. A. Demo.

fresky

I'll take Forza, yes this looks better graphically; But that doesn't change the fact that GT has some of the most outrageous driving physics out there. For most cars there seems there is almost no traction and if you take anything that has more than the slightest curve with any speed, you lose all traction..... If they could fix the physics it would be the best sim hands down, but I'm afraid Forza has them beat in that category.

Lucidity

@Derigor: "internal" mechanical damage modeling will eventually come, we have to be patient and understand what a computing feat doing such represents.

However, this increasingly high level of simulation can eventually narrow the audience further down, while increasing development costs, and thusly costs to the consumer. Hence, $40, not $15. For that, a gamer can purchase the new bionic commando instead.

The fact that the Gran Turismo experience continues, and continues to improve over time makes me happy- regardless of my actual interest in the content. The "videogame" industry is holding up well in this economy, when so many other things are collapsing.

Time to go back to school...

Mega-Driven

I don't understand what a lot of people are complaining about here.

GT5 Prologue is exactly what it is the 'prologue', you don't read the prologue of a book and complain that it didn't contain the entire book. (Admittedly, the prologue is usually contained within the same volume as the rest of the book). Prologue is basically half the price of a full game and is clearly y much more than a simple demo. I don't recall all this fuss over GT4. Hell, I imported GT4 Concept from Japan and loved it.

djack

@UFO: Here's a video that have both what you are talking about ("ghost mode") and what Luke talk about (blinking cars and other online errors).

+ Watch video

After seeing some GT5P online gameplay videos on youtube, it seems that some have problems, and some doesn't. I'm one of those who have problems :/

Gjerven

Bah. For that money you're better off getting Forza 2 and hoping that when GT5 finally drops next year, Polyphony used that extra time to get it right.

Knoxximus (360/PSN)

"How different is this from Forza? Forza has had this for 1 & 2. Just curious."

Fairly sure all the gran turismos have had some form of racing line.

p4ddym1607