@CitizenInsane27:
@ShaggyB:
Yeah, the patch is available.... how long after the game was released? I'm not saying the controls will be bad. I'm just saying that I'm glad that PS3 owners will have an option. I'm sure that it'll add depth and fun to the game, otherwise I doubt Rockstar would have even put the controls in.

Oh and CitizenInsane27, that was so clever. You got me about my screen name. I bow before your insult. You win, good sir.

NegativeGhostrider

@EVERYONE re: the controller.

Thought I'd respond in one post -- yes, the d-pad can certainly be insensitive at times in terms of which "d" it actually goes to.

That said, I have never ever ever had my hand hurt after playing a 360 game, whereas I've had it happen on the other consoles, including the Ps2. The PS3 controller isn't much better.

I have the wireless controller for my 360 and I wouldn't trade it in for the world. It's the ideal weight, the layout is flawless and it just *feels* right.

This isn't a knock on the other consoles -- their control schemes simply don't suit me well, on account of me having, you know, human hands.

Last thing - the green-spinny thing when your battery is low on the wireless 360 controller is distracting. Which is good! I want to know when it's time to stick in some new rechargeables.

Back to the topic at hand, Sixaxis and loadtimes aren't the reason I'm passing on the Ps3 version of GTA IV. It's the fact that the DLC is going to be sweet.

I'm still hoping Carson City is a pack!

DaPress

@RPGr: They did that in the PS3 version of the Godfather. But instead of a bitch slap you get a pistol whip.

Mr.SithNinja

Personally, I'm just happy that there is SOME GTA PS3 news. Up until now, everyone talking about it have cited the 360 version only, Kotaku included.

Since they didn't say anything I wasn't expecting (IE: Five minute install...) I'm not worried. Personally, I'll use the motion control for the choppers. I got good in SA with the helos, but I think this might be one thing we will see the SIXAXIS be useful for.

PapaBear434

@Fallible: "By his defination of 'complete' it does."

Yeah but by that logic the Ps3 version will never be complete because it wont get that dlc.

Lets agree that if you want the ability to have more game to play after you are done you should go with the 360. But remember you will have to pay for it.

ShaggyB

@DaPress: not with that shitty D-pad it's not.

@Molockian: there is a way to delete the install. What are you talking about? why the hell would anyone make an install that can't be deleted unless you reformat the drive? That's retarded. Do you even have a PS3? Go to the Game Utility section in the XMB. All of the installs for your games are there. Select one, hit the triangle button...see the option that says "delete"? Give me a break.

Also, Warhawk is awesome with motion control.

Striderhayasa - Phillyyakk on PSN and Live.

for me i used to have issues with how the sixaxxis controller worked, i read a fact on how to play with it in heavenly sword and it worked like a charm, head or crotch shots galore ensued in heavenly sword

the issue with the controller is how it's held, they don't tell you to hold it flat like you set it down on a table. once you do that it works like a charm

as for the mandatory load times, a friend who works at eb said there's a big difference in load times, a friend who has a 360 saw the load time of it on my ps3 and was like "what the hell i should be able to go have a smoke or something while it loads"

cleverlymadeup

I use the sixaxis tilt control for burnout paradise exclusively. This is the only game I use it in and I have to say that I think it ads a ton to the experience. Every other game I've tried so far.... nope. It really depends on the game.

db9

@superHOOKIE: Indeed I will. I'm more than happy to sacrifice a bit of time/HDD space for faster loads.

ShaggE

sixaxis RULES with Warhawk!!!

You couldn't pay me to go back to the sticks.

Royal_Highness

Oh well, the PS3 version looks better, now it might run better too. What's the problem?

ca$h

You know all you X360 owners are going to do the optional install anyway...that is, if you a) have a HDD, and b) have the space. So, looks like we're all waiting 5 minutes. Non-issue.

superHOOKIE

In an answer to your question: "when has a SIXAXIS control scheme ever been "pretty good" enough to actually use for more than 2-3 minutes at a time?"

I thought Warhawk did/does justice to SIXAXIS controls, I use them when I play. But, I agree it is an exception rather then the rule.

-EDGE-

@nottsville: By his defination of 'complete' it does.

Fallible

I'm glad that the biggest difference between the two versions are a 5-min install.

Honestly guys we should be happy we all get to play a good version of the game we are waiting for.

@Molockian: dmc4 ps3 is not any worse than the 360 version I have no idea where you got that from.

Astrofox

@Fallible:

How does it make it "incomplete" when it's additional content?

nottsville

@jsf49:

Don't remind me about Twing Twang. I felt those were the worst parts of Heavenly Sword. Messed up the flow of the game IMHO.

OGHowie

@Lanhoj: You know both games are almost identical? You realize that the 360's DLC will cost money? You understand that, in itself, makes the game 'incomplete' out of the box.

Just checking.

Fallible

GTAIV's comments are becoming more and more of a console war fest. It's stupid.

ParaParaKing

@Molockian: You forgot Warhawk on your list. And I take it you have not played DMC4 on both consoles, and even if you have, I'll take ALL the reviewer's word against yours (sorry) when they say PS3 has a slight edge in graphics AND loading times.

slomo788

@DaPress:
The EB here is doing a midnight launch, good news is I get off work at 11:30 and EB is just across the road :D

And who cares about a 5 minute install? Thats like 1gb of data on the HDD

phantomlink

Actually, I want to try out the waggle. Maybe, just maybe it'll make it feel like a real motorcycle.

Voteforme2020

For extra money, go ahead.

DigitalHero

@Molockian: screw playing the PS3 version of GTA IV. sorry, I want the 'complete' game and thats just not whats offered on the PS3 version.

Lanhoj

@Captain Impulse: "Apparently you forgot how long and how much bitching it took to get out."

nope not at all, just seems pointless to continue bitching about it after the fixed it. In fact i bought the game sold it, then bought it back for ruffly what i sold it for just because they did fix it.

Complaining about something lacking something after it no longer lacks it is just pointless.

ShaggyB

I second/third/fourth the 360's controller as being near perfection.

Nice weight and feel. The DualShock controller is too light, the grip is poor, and the R2 triggers are godawful.

And I'm a longtime Sony/PlayStation owner so stfu fanboys.

bennifer3000

so the 'required install-times' continue. thank you Rockstar.

oh, and the 6-axis might be 'pretty good' but im sure it wont be good enuff in multiplayer. u'll be able to see the fools using it, LoL. will be like mouse / keyboard -vs- controller on cross-platform games.

Lanhoj

as long as its not 5gb like dmc.40gb/5= 8 games I can have on my ps3 if developers keep doing these hefty installions.And I hate the fact that i might have to buy a new hdd just to fit games on my system.

charley_mcd

Thats ridiculous! I refuse to wait 5 more minutes to play a game. Thats it,I'm not buying it.

Garrison Dean, King Awesome

army of two & godfather: dons edition are the ONLY games ive played that use the sixaxis in a cool way that makes me want to use it, other than that its not responsive or just plain horrible. the installs on the hdd seem pretty much worthless- dmc4 ps3 < 360 plus as far as I know there is no way to delete the install without reformatting the hdd which is weak considering theres 10gb wasted on ninja gaiden and dmc4 when your done playing them. hopefully they made the install more worth it for gta4. also screw the 360 version of gta4, playing oblivion on the 360 is terrible it freezes every couple of feet cuz it cant read the disc fast enough. I would not be able to let such a thing happen during one of my precision bitch slaps.

Molockian

What a surprise, Wilson is cynical about the PS3.

Seruza

If you whine about waiting a game to be install, you're probably also a person who whines about life. you waited months/years for a game to come out, but you can't wait another 5, 10, 20 minutes ? sigh. You guys are just looking for a excuse to complain.

DoubleV

@slomo788: Sorry, I meant your weapons but not the plane.

slomo788

I would like to echo the statements about the 360 controller. The PS controller has been far and away the best for 2 generations, but the 360 controller now is just about perfect (aside from a completely non-working D-Pad)

Lou3000

@Candlejack: Well like I said it takes some practice, but the fact that you can move your weapons but not the guns with motion sensors activated is pretty cool. I tried it with my friends offline, it really gives you an edge against multiple enemies if you're quick enough.

slomo788

@kingclip: I commend you for reading my mind. lol. i know what you mean.

@JustinS: I heard somewhere it would be about 3-3.5 MB

not a typo folks. It's not 3.5 GB (cough *capcom* cough)

jun581

I think what matters the most, in the end, is that GTA 4 will be a memorable game on both XBOX360 and PS3.

During the 5 minutes of installation, go make a sammich. It's really not that bad. 11 days to go!

Ali

With no loading times in-game it's safe to say that it's a moot point, and I trust Rockstar to deliver the same experience on both in terms of graphics. So I shall say, for me, two things only matter at this point: the online integration and custom soundtracks support.

slomo788

I like motion control, and I like old school control. But I have never liked having a mixture of the two, it needs to be either or for me.

liquid_kore

I think Sixaxis controls could work really well IF implemented properly into games. The ridiculous waggle-the-pad-now bits in COD3 were a let down - I was imagining that they were going to be incorporated for something useful, such as a tilt is lean function, seeing as the PC CODs had lean. After seeing the cool Playstation Eye being able to be used to track head movements for a virtual reality effect in some other Kotaku post, maybe the Sixaxis tilt could be used in these games for people who don't have the Eye.. Anyway, point being, I'm sure the Sixaxis could be implememnted in games a lot better than the ways it is now.

Firenfunk

Welcome to a couple days ago Kotaku. :P

Man this game is going to be awesome. I honestly don't know how they can make it any better. But in a couple of days the reviews will come and my head will 'asplode.

Oh and the radio needs A Tribe Called Quest, De La Soul, Beastie Boys, The Ramones, and the NY Dolls and then we're square.

K Thx R*.

bennifer3000

@slomo788: Agreed - the feel is good - but the problem I have with controls entirely done via the tilt mechanic is the accuracy and responsiveness, or lack thereof. Sure, it's fun to play like that, but unfortunately that doesn't automatically make it useful, or better.

Candlejack

@robinandtami: Well then, maybe you just have beefy American hands...

slomo788

@ShaggyB: That patch came how long after Lair came out? It's still fair to criticize Lair for that goofy control scheme.

eastx

The only time I've had fun with the sixaxis so far was in Heavenly Sword, but at the same time it did feel pretty gimmicky. But at least it proved to me that it could be fun, just has to be used properly.

I have to agree that the 5 min install does annoy a little, but in the same way gnats annoy on a picknick. It's not exactly the main thing in focus here and, for me, is soon overcome and forgotten.

Vodun

@L: No no. I didn't say it wouldn't be expensive. I said I'd be surprised if it's not actually a full city thing, considering MS paid all that money.

slomo788

@DaPress:

Agreed. I can't game for more than 30 minutes on my PS3 before my hands start to cramp due the unnatural positions I have to twist them into to get to all the buttons. Ben Heck did a mod where he put the PS3 controller guts into a 360 controller. It looked great, but I bet it costs almost as much as a whole new console to get him to do it.

robinandtami

@DaPress: I can honestly say the 360 controller is my favorite of all time (other than the d pad issue). Perfect weight, perfect wireless, looks cool and it just feels so right in my hands.
That didn't sound creepy, right?

El Patricko

I own a 360. I like the layout overall but the D pad is crappier than the gen 1 xbox S controller D Pad.

i.roboto

@celery: It isn't a port...

HamThePharoah

@ShaggyB: Apparently you forgot how long and how much bitching it took to get out.

Captain Impulse

@OGHowie: I loved reloading with it in Army Of Two.

mescalineeyes is sleepy

I'll wait for the Wii port, then.

Spoony Bard

@atrimus: Optional is the way it should be.

Captain Impulse

360 controller is not the best, the d-pad is completely useless. Regarding the 5 minute install, boo hoo, 5 minutes is so damn terrifying. Do people know a thing such as multitasking exists? Start the install, then do something else during those 5 minutes (goto bathroom, make a sandwich, etc). You don't have to sit in front of the console waiting for the 5 minutes to end. Seriously. Installs make load times shorter.

So illogical for people to think installs are worse than long load times, which are short enough and take place in game so that you do need to sit in front of the console and wait while load times take place.

Gam3r

@slomo788: I would be, considering that they have to put all that work in and then just give it out for free? please. MS paid 50mil, they want that back so they will charge you massive for the DLC. Again another reason why I don't like the LIVE infrastructure. I pay to get on your service, you service me ads, you use my xbox 360 as a host and I have to pay for downloads... so what am I paying for on LIVE?

L

@djricekcn: For Heavenly Swords

djricekcn

@Candlejack: Warhawk is pretty impressive in terms of motion sensing. Requires a few minutes to get used to but you actually feel more "in control" with the Sixaxis (methinks).

slomo788

I think that little bow girl had a good Sixaxis controls

djricekcn

@DaPress: Agreed.

eastx

@DaPress: Best for FPS's, worst for everything else.

FlyingWombat

5 minutes, not bad, was expecting maybe even more.

DigiMish

@themissing: No one cares about a 5 min install, they care about 20 min ones. I actually prefered the PS3 version of DMC4 because of the install, but it was a little long.

FlyingWombat

@DaPress: Personally disagree. I prefer the dualshock layout actually, though I do like the buttons better for the triggers on the 360 controller.

If I could get a mix of those two, it would be perfect.

Kyle81

5 minutes isn't bad. anything that helps cut down on load times is fine with me.

VixDiesel

@ShaggyB:
Apparently you aren't looking at the fact that the game still sucks.

FlyingWombat

@OGHowie: That's part of the issue - SIXAXIS is tacked on to the DualShock. Taken for what it is, it's alright. I mean, I wouldn't rather not have it. It's a bonus if you so want. But it's basically an afterthought to the actual controller and only halfway there to what the Wii does, or tries to do.

I'm expecting MGS4 to be the first game to really impress people with what tilt can do for a game. So far, to me, that hasn't happened. Lair was an alright idea, but the problem it had was that you were steering a fucking dragon in the air. Those type of controls aren't even perfect with the regular sticks (like the patch proves to me, and so do the previous Rogue Squadron games). Replace them with a new technology that needs even more getting used to? Yea, fail.

Luckily, the 250+MB patch of Lair actually makes the game very enjoyable. Less stutter / abrupt load times (fade to black), new dragons to control for free, analog controls and so on.

I wouldn't hold my breath for tilt features in GTA4 to be honest.

Candlejack

@-MoarPlz-: The spinny thing is a "battery low" indicator. I agree that it's distracting, though.

ShaggE

@Silus: I disagree. I find that PlayStation controllers have always been more comfortable to use, other than that it's down to your own personal opinion.

Anyway, I'm in the understanding that the 360's DLC will be centered around one game-type of the online play, I forget the name but it's about story-driven missions. I'd assume that, like with any other multiplayer game, Team Deathmatch and the like will be the only real game types that matter online for the average consumer.

Fallible

@CitizenInsane27: Well if it's truly 50 mils, I wouldn't be surprised. That's the budget of a big game itself.

slomo788

@DaPress: But with the other two having both motion sensing and rumble, it's also the least advanced this generation.

slomo788

@DaPress: Aye. Except, of course, the D-Pad. It feels a bit too gooey.

ShaggE

Oh, and also, I very highly doubt that the 360 will see these theoretical "full city" bullshit DLC. Sure, MS paid a good chunk of money for it, but Rockstar isn't gonna give the game an Oblivion expansion that costs $5-10. The game is so big that to be able to pull that off by fall is just unreasonable. I'm sure it will be mission packs, some of which will coincide with the online, enough to still shift the tide, but not too much to make the other console's version obsolete. If they do release a full city upgrade, it will be both systems, guaranteed.

CitizenInsane27

@DaPress: Really? I found it to be an uncomfortable, clunky and ugly piece of shit... And the stupid Xbox logo lights on it would sometimes spin around for no reason, which would piss me off. The only thing I liked were the triggers... Oh and the battery life was pretty good for the wireless controller variant.

-MoarPlz-

People may not like it, but something tells me that 5 minute install will be worth it in the end.

As for the Sixaxis controls, I won't mess with them...unless it could be used with grenades like Uncharted. That would be cool.

Magic Emperor Anima

The SIXAXIS worked really well in Motorstorm and Warhawk, so I have hope it will work fine. As for the 5min install, could care less, I have waited this long for the game, whats another 5 min.

boots555

@NegativeGhostrider: "At least the SIXAXIS controller isn't forced. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Lair."

Apparently you arent looking at the patch that makes that a non issue.

ShaggyB

@OGHowie: I don't agree. Those games use it best because they do it so sparingly. Except in warhark. I love controlling with the sixaxis

pd771

Twing twang.

(Heavenly Sword. To answer your question, Mark Wilson.)

jsf49

@NegativeGhostrider: That comment has no merit now, due to the downloadable patch. I see why your name is 'NEGATIVE Ghostrider".

I'm sure that the mandatory install isn't horribly long, and probably will make sure the game runs as well as it can. So I don't see what the big deal is. The Sixaxis stuff is hit or miss, I probably won't use it for the sake that I still prefer the sticks in a game like GTA, but hey, it's always fun to see how it's done.

CitizenInsane27

nitpicking a 5 minute install? you have to be joking if you can't allow that you shouldn't try driving.

lilaliendog

@Sonikku:

um, you know the 360 has an optional install right? the only reason it's optional is because Rockstar has to allow for the possibility that some gamers may be playing on gimped, hdd-less 360 Arcades.

atrimus

I don't really care about a PS3 install, even if it's mandatory. If it means less load times and a better play experience, I'm all for it.

As for SIXAXIS control, I'm not really down. Maybe if I can selectively turn it on or off for each vehicle type, but still, from my experience, SIXAXIS controls suck ass.

PissedPS3Fan

@ShaggE: Totally. The 360s controller is hands down the best of the 3 this generation.

DaPress

What is with PS3 games having installs now? Do developers not understand it's not supposed to be a PC? I don't own one yet - waiting for MGS4 - but I know it will irk me just a bit. You don't know me. Me? I growl.

vanderblade

It would be funny if you had to act out "bitch slapping" with a quick jerk motion on the Sixaxis (i.e. a slap motion)

RPGr

Sixaxis control has always felt tacked on in the games I've played (Resistance, Heavenly Sword, and Uncharted).

OGHowie

@DaPress: Oh, and it's the 360 version I'm getting, to be clear. You can waggle all you want. I want the DLC.

DaPress

@Silus: I second that controller statement. PS1 and 2 had the best controllers of their respective generations, but the 360 controller is like a glove for me. (I have big hands, so I need a meaty controller.)

ShaggE

I'm more annoyed at the fact that we have the "option" for sixaxis, when steering vehicles in GTA have generally been horrible.

Then again, I probably just couldn't stand trying to get 100% on all of those DMV type events in San Andreas (particularly the plane one that you HAD to do). Combine the annoying controls, zero room for error, the sun glaring in your eyes AND the default radio being on Country and you can see why this news doesn't excite so much.

Truvill

I just hope that the normal controlls will be available to.. in case that som1 does not like to use the sixaxis function.. :|

Shad0X

yes I agree I take my precision bitch slapping very very seriously both in gta and in real life.

Molockian

Seconded. I mean, if you land a weak bitch slap then all the other kids down the block are gonna make fun of you and smack you down.

Elderwulf

Har! What is up with these forced PS3 Installs? I'll tell you what, the Blu-ray drive is just too damn slow and this is the only way for the loading to be on par with the 360 ;)

Sonikku

All i want to know is: frame rate + texture quality!

achievements+DLC unimportant.

WhaleMenace

Shame about that preload. I just got back from EB Games where I fully paid for the GTA IV preorder. Dude said they might even do a midnight launch if Toronto's Eaton Center lets them. Now, I wait. Just 11 days to go.

DaPress

Oh, this won't go well.

kingclip

"when has a SIXAXIS control scheme ever been "pretty good" enough to actually use for more than 2-3 minutes at a time?"

fl0w?

KrsJin

here we go with the 5 minute install complaints again....aaaand...go.

themissing

I don't think the Six Axis extra will top the ability to beat DLC if it does come in the package of full cities for the 360.
But more importantly, I always found the 360 controller MUCH more comfy to play with than the PS2's/PS3's.

Silus

Meh, I don't care about the install. Whenever I install a PC game I have to wait 5 minutes. It's no big deal, live with it...

-MoarPlz-

So a five minute install. I wonder how much space it takes up.

JustinS

@celery: all i have to say is The Godfather: Blackhand Edition

teh_joe

At least the SIXAXIS controller isn't forced. Yeah, I'm looking at you, Lair.

NegativeGhostrider

Actually, my girlfriend would beg to differ. She actually liked it with Rub-A-Dub enough to get sucked into Playstation Store's other offerings.

jp182

A port with waggle; are you sure we're not talking about the Wii here?

celery

@ShaggE: Oh yes, I have that Assassin's Creed achievement for staying alive 10 minutes in open combat. The only thing that sucks is that you have to hold both triggers for an auto block. But besides that, you just hit X every time someone swings and BAM! you've got a cinematic kill. So there! :P

DaPress

@Silus: How have you ALWAYS felt that way when the 360 controller is so new, and the PS controller has been out for 12 years?

@OP
When has Sixaxis controls ever been "pretty good"?

Uhhhh.........Warhawk. Any takers?

boilermaker11

I'm kinda leaning to the 360 one just because this is gonna be one of those games that ALL your friends have, and so playing with them on Live will be an attractive option.

But I will wait and see the reviews and see if one or the other is clearly better.

For Ps3 bashers as to the install - does 5 minutes really matter? it's silly. Who cares? 20 minutes in DMC4? Yeah annoying. 5? Go grab a drink and you're set - as long as you have HD space, which shouldn't be a proble for any PS3 - yet.

Reminds me of when people say PS3 is better than 360 because with Blu-Ray you'll never have to switch discs ala Blue Dragon or Lost Odyssey. But again - 2 minutes every 10-20 hours I have to switch? Oh noes.

Both arguments are silly.

lionkitten

OH GOD...FIVE MINUTES???

Seriously, find something different to gripe about 1up. I can buy either one, but I'm sticking with the PS3 version for various reasons (controller, hdmi and my PS3 doesn't sound like a chopper on its last ounce of gas).

sascha23

Eh, they should have just put the game on a cartridge.

badasscat

Finally! Some kind of info about the PS3 version! Why is it so hard to find PS3-specific information?

PlayerX

@DaPress:

Dapress, my comment was a defence against the haters, I'm not the one kidding myself.

I'm not starting a flame war, as far as I can tell by a fair few of these comments, its already started =)

I was simply venting annoyance at some of the one sided attitudes on here. You are right to point out that I'm not helping the situation though. one day I'll learn, I promise.

finelicker

Also, though it is a minor benefit, do not underestimate the pull of achievements for owners of both systems. IF two games are otherwise almost identical I will most likely choose the XBox version. Achievements create a nice meta-game for me to pursue once I am finished with the meat of the game.

DrPhilbert

@GPman:

I will not be doing the optional install on my 360. My space left is coveted and as bad as I want this game and will play this game, I'll keep the content off my HDD.

I agree this nitpicking is just that, but I'm just answering your question.

SeedyROM

@Gagamus:

Wait, so you already played both versions?

OGHowie

@Albanian_Killa: Unless it is a game by EA :P
Thankfully this isn't though (sounds like it will be 'more than complete).

@Gagamus: Call me crazy but I've yet to see tacked-on six axis controls make a game superior. I've yet to see PSN match the quality of XBL (free isn't always good), and I've yet to see a cross console game have sharper graphics for the ps3.

tcrat

So my question is:
If I choose to do the optional install (on the 360) and then need to delete it later for space reasons, will it affect my game at all?

DrPhilbert

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I guess the clueless general public like to bash both the PS3 and 360, right?

Tepoz

Folklore has the best use for the SixAxis in my opinion, It works great and there is a visual representation. I had a blast using the sixaxis for that as for the other games lair was a good game but difficult to use sixaxis for the dragon.

gnudna

@LittleBigPlaneteer: It might have a mandatory internet connection requirement ala GT5:Prologue.

Tepoz

@Albanian_Killa:

The general public is clueless and will use any excuse to bash the PS3.

LittleBigPlaneteer

One of the things what bugs me about playing games on the PS3 over the 360... having to always hit X on some warning about turning the console off when it's loading/saving. For god's sake, must every game have this same crap sony, we get it! It's little jimmy's own damn fauly if he kills the power and the 0.1% rare happens and it corrupts his progress mid save!

Oh yeah, and don't get me started on having to accept every game's freaking terms and conditions every time I open the online menu. I've accepted it once, can't you just frigging remember!!!

aaaand relax... I'll be getting gta4 on the 360 because I'm REALLY interested in MP and that's where all my friends are.

Peace out

NecronomiconUK

Anybody getting the 360 version not planning on doing the optional install?

I find this argument odd simply because it seemed like everybody was upset with the 360 when it was launched because it didn't come with a hdd on all units because then games wouldn't be designed around using them (ie installs). But now the PS3 is looked down upon for doing what most 360 owners wanted for their system? I see current 360 users still now hoping they get rid of the hdddless core model so more companies will take advantage of the hdd. I don't get why this is bad for the ps3.

GPman

@Royal_Highness: It's a shame about the RROD, you're right. I've had it happen to me once and it was definitely a huge piss-off. That was a long time ago and I hope it doesn't happen again. But you're right, it could. Meantime, everything else about the console just rocks. Wii disappointed me and the PS3 has online problems as well as a smaller stable of games that I want to play.

@finelicker: Oh dear. We've got a flame war starting again. Yes, your console is better than mine. You win. Just please, stop.

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Neither version of the game is supposed to have any load times past the intro.

@nottsville: Well said. There's 11 days left. Let's just wait a little and then we can all eat our cake and online too.

DaPress

@Gagamus:

Well said Gagamus

Royal_Highness

People really need to shut the fuck up about motherfucking DLC. This is truly the dumbest topic in all of gaming right now. We have people talking more about an expansion pack that they will have to purchase separately than the 30-70 hour game that is SUPPOSED to be getting the attention.

The fact is, content wise, people are getting the same exact game on April 29th. And the sad truth that people aren't realizing is that until that DLC hits for the 360 version, the ps3 version is going to be superior. Free online play, sixaxis controls, and sharper graphics. Game Over. End of argument. For 59.99, ps3 owners get a slightly better version of the game. For 59.99 + Microsoft's typically outrageous prices for DLC in the future, you may or may not get a huge expansion pack that you will only care about after you finish the game, depending on how cheap you are. The game needs to be the story. Not which version is better. Because if you're even going to have that argument, at least be truthful or get to the point, which I just did.

Gagamus

@Fallible: ..and it soon BECAME available... Need to recheck spelling and grammar more often.

Fallible

@Fallible: Forgot to add, depends how long these things stay exclusive. I remember buying Spider-Man 3 CE for the Green Goblin and it soon available to everyone via the DLC.

Fallible

@ShaggyB: Are you serious? DLC does not complete a game. It adds to what is an already complete game for extra replay value. It does not finish the story.

Albanian_Killa

@DaPress: "I have never ever ever had my hand hurt after playing a 360 game."

Have you tried an extended swordfight in Assassin's Creed? There's a cramp just waiting to happen. :P

ShaggE

Wow, why is it all of the sudden people are suddenly discovering installs on the PS3? They've been around since launch. Resistance: Fall of Man had one. Splinter Cell Double Agent had an 800MB install. All games create "Game Data" which is referred to as "Install Data". Same shit. If it's 5 minutes, I don't expect it to take much space. Gotta go easy on my 20GB PS3. Only one available during launch at the time :( I gotta upgrade my HDD soon.

Albanian_Killa

@ShaggyB: Not necessarily. It depends what aspect of the game these DLC downloads affect. To be honest I can see it being in the form of online multiplayer missions --alas the name of the mode evades my grasp again-- and that just doesn't appeal to some people when weighed against the other stellar online modes available on both systems.

Of course, personal preference and all that may sway you either way. I'll personally be going for the PS3 but that's neither here or there.

Fallible

I will forgive a mandatory install for GTAIV.

Moridin

GTA games in the past did a terrible job with the controls when it comes to the RC & real planes and helicopters. Adding another scheme thats completely new might help a lot since it does make sense to use SIXAXIS as tilting is a big part of it.

Paranoised

So I take it that the PS3 version probably has less load times than the 360 version?

LittleBigPlaneteer

So, you have to wait 5 minutes for a one off install process, once done, I can play the game while my console makes nearly no noise safe in the knowledge the console will live longer than it takes me to get through the game. 360's get to play the game without installing, but have to endure the console noisely whooshing away for the entire time throughout the game annoying the crap out of you, with the constant feeling that hara kiri is right around the corner. I know which one I'd pick ;)

finelicker

@DaPress: Wow, nice opinion you got there. I feel the exact opposite, that's why my 360 has been unplugged for over a year now. I'd be too worried of RROD'ing for the 3rd time, which would take away from my precious playing time...again.

Royal_Highness

One thing i read earlier is that there was a big bit based on a prison on Statton Island. Not sure if there is one or not, but it was taken out of the final game.

That may be the first part of DLC available.

Anyway. I own both systems and i'm getting the 360 version. Purely just down to the fact that live integration, friends lists etc are IMO better on the 360.

And anyway guys, as gamers, why aren't we just celebrating the fact that we'll ALL be playing a fantastic game, instead of worrying about bloody 5 min installs and the like?

nottsville

motorstorm and warhawk have the best motion controls for vehicles by far. they are accurate and detect many minor movements. Other games like Burnout Paradise and COD3's vehicle movements are absolutely horrid with the sixaxis motion.

mentalboy11

@RPGr:
In Rayman Raving Rabbids for Wii, there's a mini-game where you bitch slap the rabbits singing poorly using the nunchuck. It's definitely the best "next-gen" bitch slapping experience I've had so far... :p

JoseJX

@Gagamus: Your opinion, while vitriolic, is full of assumptions and light on fact. The PS3 has sixaxis tacked on and you think that's an advantage? Fine by me.

And yes, I agree, the 360 can RROD on me. For sure. I've taken some steps to reduce that risk, but I suppose it's definitely possible, so yes, the 360 has a strike against it there, not just with GTA IV but with gaming in general.

But wait, PS3 will have superior graphics? Let me edjukache ya: every single screenshot and video you've seen of the game thus far has probably been from the 360 version of the game. You know little or nothing of how the PS3 version will look.

Also, the fact that you have a free online service doesn't mean it's any good. In fact, thus far, it has meant the opposite (I've played both).

Here's a bit of math I enjoy: Xbox Live costs $60 a year, or $5 a month.

That's a whopping 16.7 cents a day. Despite the turbulent economic times we live in, I think I can afford that. I also will be delighted to affrod the DLC when it comes out.

DaPress

@Paranoised: "GTA games in the past did a terrible job with the controls when it comes to the RC & real planes and helicopters."

I thought they did an amazing job with the helicopters (Playstation versions, at least... never tried Xbox ones). Using R2 and L2 as the yaw control was brilliant.

Planes were good, too. What was your specific problem with the controls?

PlayerX

Atleast it's not a 30 minute load time.

Papa Midnight

@Gagamus: While I've seen many, many people try to win a debate by saying "I just won this debate, so everyone else should shut up now", I have yet to see anyone actually succeed, present company included.

Campion

@StabbyCutyou:
*ahem*
[multiplayerblog.mtv.com]

Tepoz

@DaPress: I got that achievement too, but I don't remember any fights lasting that long, oddly enough.

But yeah, the cramping (for me, anyway), came from going on the offense and mashing the X button like there was no tomorrow, only stopping to B button a guard into a wall, while all the while blocking as much as possible. An exercise in pain when there's 25 guards all lined up to attack. :P

ShaggE

@Sonikku:
Found the math thread:

[forums.highdefdigest.com]

Enjoy, all

StabbyCutyou

@PissedPS3Fan:
It doesnt mean less load time, for It to mean less load time there would have to be a way to play It with more load times.

Its either install and play, or stare at the cover and dont play.

KEELr

@Sonikku: Actually, if you were to do the math out on the X360 drive VS the PS3 bluray, the majority(If i remember correctly) of X360 DVDs are slightly slower than some of the Bluray discs...

I want to say that the DVD9s are slower than the 25 gbs, but edge out the 50 gbs by a small fraction, but I can't find the original forum posting where the person did out the math to show the difference in read speeds on the different systems / discs.

It was posted in the forums at www.highdefdigest.com (Excellent site for HD/BR reviews, the "Smackdown" forums are great for enjoying the written equivalent of watching monkeys hurl feces at one another.)

Plus, they've already stated the reason for the installs is due to developers, not any sort of limitation on the BluRay (Some kind of difference in how the image is read from the disc that differs from DVD to BluRay... Again, this is from memory, and I can't find the article to back it up, but it was posted here on Kotaku and I believe Joystiq within the last few weeks.)

However, from what i remember reading about the speed that the systems discs read at, combined with the provided explanation from Sony, your statement is misleading and essentially false.

Still pretty upset that we haven't heard much about the DLC for X360 VS PS3. I really wanna know what the difference is going to be.

StabbyCutyou

If you think about it, added Sixaxis control for the chopper would be a fantastic way to control it in all three dimensions.

Bernard McGraw

@Drakron:

I'm not looking to turn this into a back and forth on the Kotaku comments systems dime, so all i'll add is this (About the BR drive speeds):

Someone made a quick comment about how the PS3s drive speed was too slow.

I posted a link detailing some figures that prove it isn't always slower. I did not say it was always faster, I did not, to my knowledge, make any outrageous claims along the lines of "It Cures Cancer" (I know this was just your example, but I'm not seeing where the relevance is, sorry).

And as far as I knew, Bethsoft wasn't the end all be all for determining the speed of disc drives. If I could find a quote from, say, Insomniac, saying that the BR drive wasn't slower, would that make my claim any more correct than yours, backed up by a different development house? (I do not have such a quote handy, merely an example).

And you directed me to read the rest of the post... which is difficult, given the number of insults being hurled around that place, but the only thing I can find that you might be referencing is one comment stating the OP "Proved" BR was slower, and then shortly after a response saying that all he's done is to illustrate the difference in BR/DVD read technologies, which seem to differ in performance based on the condition of the data in the disc.

My god some people really take this nonsense to heart... I'm sitting here debating disc read techniques on a video game forum on the internet...

Time to take a good hard look at my life. But saying BR is slowing because "Bethsoft said so" just doesn't make sense to me.

Enjoy the weekend folks

StabbyCutyou

@StabbyCutyou: The "probably" is not unfounded. If you glance at any of the press packets Rockstar has sent out or at any of the myriad sites that are putting up shots/videos of the game, you'll see what I mean.

That said, I agree with you -- I weep silently for the Wii user base, some of whom our doubtlessly sadly waggling their Wiimotes in despair.

DaPress

@Fallible: yes i am aware of all that, but thanks, LoL. my statement still stands.

Lanhoj

I couldn't be lest excited about this news about motion controls... But choices.. I rather have best of both worlds. I'm getting the PS3 version but it still troubles my mind if I shouldn't get it for my 360.

Pro PS3:
- I don't want the 360 vacuum cleaner noise anymore whilst playing high end games.
- My PS3 is connected with HDMI and my 360 component (and no I'm not getting a elite just because it's got HDMI)
- I actually got the idea the PS3 runs games with less hassle then my 360
- I like the PS3 controller more then then 360, period.

Pro 360:
- Downloads, downloads and downloads
- I have more people in my friends list on the 360 to play online with

So a 2:1 ratio... ugh... release the PC version allready..

Graywing

@StabbyCutyou:

Read the rest of the topic, I can make a post showing how the Xbox 360 cures cancer but THAT does not make it true.

Worst is when people confuse things or deliberate mud the waters to "prove" their point.

Blu-Ray is slower, Bethsoft said so.

Drakron

I have to really say. I am honestly getting sick of the rampant fanboyism anywhere I go. There's always people making commentary about how one little nuance of an item makes one console better than another.

Or how because a game is being brought to multiple platforms, one has to be deemed a "port", despite the same day release.

Or how, with no knowledge of where the game video or screens are actually coming from, people automatically assume that they come from the console of their choice. If the screen isn't up to their quality of belief, then it obviously must be the "competitions" console.

If people want it on the PS3, then get it on the PS3. If people want it on the 360, then get it on the 360. Why is there such a need every time a multi platform game gets a headline, for fanboys or "biased gamers" to come out toting all the words about "End of the console war" "RROD" "My console is better than yours" "what games?" "blu ray drive" "xbox live" or "DLC"...

Your reasons are yours alone. Why try to argue that your choice is superior to someone else's because they made their own choice? Can't we all just leave each other be rather than getting into a penis waving contest every time a multi-platform game or news on a console comes out? I am sure I am not alone in saying that I am getting sick of it.

Dennen

@L: You think the infrastructure MS uses comes free and the staff to service the datacenters work for peanuts, huh? You pay for a reliable, quality closed network. I don't how many staff the entire LIVE division has, but I'm sure it's plenty and they give a good service and I think personally the small amount per year is worth it.

shufflemoomin

I'm waiting on the 360 version's DLC pricing as to whether I get it or not. Even if it's like '10 hours for 20 bucks', it's just not worth it. I am not spending more than $10 for DLC, period.

As for the 5 minute install on the PS3: It's 5 minutes for crying out loud! It's not 21 or 45, it's FIVE! The 360 version's install is optional, and probably everyone who has a HDD will take it to make the disc drive run quieter (if it's even possible).

Oh, and both version's have achievements, so there. On April 29th, 2008, Grand Theft Auto 4 on PS3 and 360 ARE BOTH EVEN.

KingBroly

@DaPress:

"Let me edjukache ya: every single screenshot and video you've seen of the game thus far has probably been from the 360 version of the game."

Claiming to "Edjukache" someone, and following that up with an unfounded "probably" is a little silly.

That said, the game is going to be re-friggin-diculous on both systems... Is anyones life REALLY going to be affected if one system edges out the other?

Really?

Why don't we all just feel bad for the poor Wii fanbase, who wont get to enjoy the fun of pistol whipping a hooker with the Wiimote...

StabbyCutyou

@slomo788:

Actually I have delicate lady hands, ring size 6. It's just not an ergonomical controller, IMO.

robinandtami

@Tepoz:

Thanks for the link, The article in question wasn't the one I was thinking of, but maybe this is the one Ko/Joy were citing.

However, I had thought the stuff posted here had a quote from Sony stating the issue wasn't so much that the BR drive read the disc slowly, but that the manner in which the disc itself was populated with data differed from a DVD, and thus companys that simply dumped the DVD onto the BR were the ones to blame for the mandatory installs, as the image wasn't optimized for the BR disc itself...

This quote from the MTV link you provided at least gives a little weight to what i'm saying:

"Based on conversations we've had with several developers, catering to Blu-ray is hardly impossible, but requires work. "

Regardless, it semi backs-up my point, so thank you for that.

Also interesting is that they say another potential workaround is to dump multiple copies of the data into various locations on a disc, thus giving the head multiple places to find it... Interesting because I'm a nerd, not interesting because it makes a difference lol

StabbyCutyou

i hate the playstation controller, my pinkies stick off the end and it is just uncomfortable

Crrusherr

@jigglypoofs:

first time only... (unless you were to delete the install afterwards... but you'd have to be an idiot to do that)

overall, the more i think about it, the less of a problem it is... i mean... i like GTA enough that i would install it given the choice EVERY time, even if i brought it to a friends house to play on his ps3, it would make sense to install the game before playing it for one play session anyways....

i dunno, i guess it still bothers me a little.. but i dont really mind.

we'll see.

joelface

@Captain Impulse:

most sane 360 owners would opt to install, as it decrease pop-in, load times, and increases framerates. but hey, if you opt shun the install and have a gimped version, then who am i to argue?

atrimus

I'll tell you when a Sixaxis control scheme has been good, F1:CE, if you like those sorts of games (I do), but I played all my races using only the Sixaxis for steering and found it quite the enjoyable experience (in several 2 hour sessions, longer than that and the constant flailing of the control for sharp corners can get to you, damn you Suzuka). But still I was surprised by how good it was, allowed much better precision for cornering, it also freed up my left thumb for mid-race car adjustments. I totaled 20+ hours with the Sixaxis as steering (on Hard, with 98% of my races won), so I'll tell you where you can stick your '2-3 minutes'.

On topic, I don't care if it has a 5 minute install, as long as the game looks/runs well and is fun then who would really care about 5 minutes... You're going to play it for alot longer than that. I'd assume anyway.

Leighroy

Glad I have the XBox 360. 5 minutes? That's 5 minutes lost of game playing. Now, if only I could get rid of the feeling in the back of my head that my XBOX 360 could get the Red Ring of Death.

octoSink

Is that 5 minutes each time you want to play??

jigglypoofs

the game better running REALLY fucking smooth if they are going to force an install on us. if not, it comes down to SHODDY programming.

thats all i've got to say.

i mean, yes, it does suck that it has a mandatory install, but its not a huge deal. 5 minutes the FIRST time you play is negligible, especially if it really has an impact on the gameplay.

as for the SIXAXIS controls, it will definitely be fun to play around with, especially for the helicopter, but i doubt it will actually make controlling it easier than with the sticks.

but definitely still fun. GTA is a great game to just play around in, and the sixaxis controls will definitely benefit from an atmosphere like that, i think.

in motorstorm, the learning curve for the SIXAXIS controls was annoying, because you would continually lose race after race until you figured it out.

joelface

@Gam3r:

It's not about it being a hassle. It's more about having installs on a console.
Consoles used to be about plug-and-play. Now it's like a PC. It's stupid.

Witless

@Striderhayasa my neighbor has a ps3 and i have a 360 but we never knew that so thank you you just saved us 15gbs of space on a other note im no way a fuckin fanboy cuz its seems thats what your implying I was sorely let down when my friend got a ps3 and happy I didnt buy one but the only reason im getting one is metal gear solid and the main reason I got a xbox is ninja gaiden. thats it both, consoles suck balls in there own way but ps3 really sucks big time considering sony just wanted to use the ps3 to play blu-ray instead of playing games I have a black eye from sony from that

Molockian

@Astrofox @slomo788 im not saying it loads faster im saying theres no difference in load times and you be better off on the 360 version. I have played both and really didnt notice any differences besides the install and controller. 90% of the time games are just better on the 360 one way or the other, to me the ps3 always gets hosed. I dont know how the ps3 version has better graphics than the 360 unless you include the fact that the 360 gets hot and stuff on the screen gets glitched thats the only difference. the load times definitely vary on the 360 depending on what dvd drive is in it- launch drives are waaay slower while the benq drives are smooth as silk in comparison. its all really opinion but I rather get any game for 360 over ps3 unless I plan on playing online/ better on ps3.

Molockian

This is news to everyone?

It was reported weeks ago that the PS3 has mandatory install and the 360 has an optional one. PS3's version apparently runs much better than the 360, however, 360 runs about up to par with the PS3's framerate/draw distances when you do the optional install [according to a hands-on]

gravytoast

High Velocity Bowling.

samdu

@fenderfuel08: The cost of the HD you can put in your PS3 is the market price. The price of the HD you put in your 360 is whatever MS wants to overcharge you.

The PS3 install helps loads by reducing the need to decompress on the fly (as much). What you get in return is a better looking, smoother running game. Why it's mandatory on one system and not on the other may have to do with the fact that one of the systems doesn't have an HD as standard equipment the devs can count on existing. Please don't act like the world doesn't have trade offs. You get something very tangible in return for installing on a PS3, and if the 360 had a built in HD, we wouldn't be complaining as I'm sure RS would insist on a mandatory install in that case as well.

I'm very happy that you have a platform of choice. I'm here to say you are justified already if you are having fun playing with it. You don't need to cut others down to continue to be justified in your purchase. You're welcome.

SaintWaldo

It's not about waiting 5 mins for the install, its the fact that all these mandatory installs eat the PS3s limited HDD space like its made out of pringles chips.

Sure, we can all go out and buy another HDD, but then we have half of our game saves/downloads on one HDD and need to deal with the hassle of getting them to the new one(if that is even possible). Not to mention the extra cost of buying a new HDD, and the fact that the 360 owners aren't suffering with this problem.

fenderfuel08

@Mark Wilson - "when has a SIXAXIS control scheme ever been "pretty good" enough to actually use for more than 2-3 minutes at a time?"

I'm going to read that as a direct question and respond that I found Sixaxis worked great for me on these titles:

flOw
Blast Factor
Blazing Angels I and II (Yes, I flew BOTH games to completion using the Arcade Sixaxis setup)
Burnout Paradise
Lair (I hear you when you say you wanted to turn it off, but I didn't have a problem with tilt in Lair AT ALL)
Warhawk

To show balance, Sixaxis was poorly utilized such that I didn't use it at all in these games:
Tony Hawk Project 8 and Proving Ground
Skate

Every other use of sixaxis is pretty much a small part of input (e.g. the cameras in RB6) so as to be pretty unnoticable. I haven't turned anything like that off (e.g. tilt for after-touch, etc.); I sort of like having the tilt be a secondary input in FPS/ARPGs, like having a 3rd stick or a 2nd d-pad.

When it comes to modeling a flying vehicle, personally, I love tilting a PS style controller. It's really like flying a plane by manipulating a model.

Maybe I'm an odd one, maybe I'm just a mutant, but I happen to like most of what I've seen done with sixaxis and hope that devs continue to experiment.

SaintWaldo

Listen, I understand some people are upset that they have to install a console game. That's just something they'll have to put up with gaming this generation, though, like it or not.

I was upset when I realized that most games worth a damn were gonna have at least two, three or more patches throughout their lives. Patches on a console game? Bullshit! I said. However, that is just how this generation is, and you're gonna have to get used to it. Same thing with installations.

As consoles become closer to being PCs, with their own omnipresent operating systems in the background, they're going to start behaving more like, surprise surprise, PCs! I bet you a weeks pay that if the 360 had come standard with a HDD we would have seen this trend start well before we did. The only reason we see it now is because the PS3 is finally starting to come into its own, and developers have decided the best way to deliver a game on it is to have it run, at least in part, off the HDD. That's it. Not liking it won't change it, it's part of your life now.

Even 360 owners should consider the ability to do this a good thing, as an HDD can load a helluva a lot faster than a 12x DVD. Get used to it and consider it just another twist in the long road of gaming. /rant

ca$h

@PissedPS3Fan:
In Warhawk you Can selectively turn it on and off for each vehicle type.
SixAxis not good for ground vehicles, great for flying. We just have to wait and see how it pans out in GTA.

Andronix

poor skip

FelixLighter

I did the math, GTA IV should have about a 2700 MB install, if the disc is constantly reading at highest speed. Just thought I would put that in.

Ahsayuni

Oh noes!! PS3 has a 5 minute install!!

Well let me throw mine away, and run right out and buy a 360. I hope it doesn't RROD...oh and there's the obsolete HD DVD...and damn where's the wireless.