IF it isn't broken, and you change it, you broke it. It doesn't seem horribly illogical to me, but then I don't mind.

Maldron

Also, in an unrelated note, Harvey Birdman Attorney At Law just came on, so life just got REAL good. That show fucking rocks, anyone play the game? I'm interested if it rocks as hard as the cartoon.

Otacon91

All this hate over...what? some very mild tweaks to THE ORDER WITH WHICH ENEMIES COME OUT OF A GAME?!?!

Congrats Kingoro58K, I now hate hardcore gamers.

On a side note, this also brings to light how top-level Ikaruga play is dependent entirely on memorization instead of, say, dexterity or reflexes (though they help). If the color swap of a laser attack of ONE boss is enough to piss people off...Jesus.

Gunhaver

@Rubix42: Yea, him too... Sorry my most recent copy of Guinness Book of World Records is probably 10 years old now.

More to topic, I see where he is coming from. Though they left most of the Marth's moveset from SSBM the same, (for arguement's sake we won't get into dmg, knock back, and hitboxes) they edited his neutral b and it really took away a useful air attack. Now it's useful for recoveries rather than as a very fast and often unexpected kill from edge guard.

Anemone

@Anemone: the thing is though, most of the good players don't have that huge of a problem with it (going through forums it's obvious they're a little bitter, but still happy that the port is quite nice; sort of a "damn them for changing this, but I'm gonna have fun doing it" mood)-- just a scant few, one of which happens to be this guy. Most common recommendation for the hater? Buy a frickin NAOMI arcade board and Ikaruga, as it'll probably not cost much more than a 360.

Technically they do have reason to bitch a little bit, as the 'coming soon' pictures on Treasure's site touted a 'complete port' of the arcade version by the original staff [www.treasure-inc.co.jp] -- then again, wouldn't that require omission of online rankings, online coop, high res graphics and the like as well? Not to mention, it's still no reason to try and keep a #1 spot just to get your message across.

It would be really nice to get Treasure's response to this though (intentional or accidental), since some of the changes like lasers rotating the other way should have been caught if they weren't doing it on purpose, whether it be to catch long-timers off guard or for other reasons. Any chance you'd be able to throw them a note Bash?

muu

Little changes like that ruin strategies that took hours to devise.

Ryanraven

Felt the need to post about this on his own blog? ....about the moving of.... Suddenly my life doesn't look that shitty anymore, but then again I'm a dad, so I'm the kind of nerd that can prove hes gotten laid at least once.

Otacon91

All I read was "WAHHHH WAHHH WAHHHHHHH!"

wildfire759

@Rubix42: Not on TG: [www.twingalaxies.com]

Erwin

@GDW1017: I think the Halo pistol dealio is much more of an issue to get disappointed at than this. That was an awesome weapon getting taken away, changing gameplay, whereas this is nothing but something that will require him to actually play the game until he gets it memorized again.

idkmybffgreg

These guys really know their Ikaruga. It reminds me of simpler times when I would play the original Mega Man games on the NES and memorize how to beat each stage of the game in order to beat it, and then I would go and beat it again multiple times.
Nowadays I'm lucky if I have the time to complete one game before moving to the next.

I think there is a reason why this guy is the top rated player on this game, he obviously knows every single detail of it by now. I kind of understand him being a little upset since this was supposed to be a port and not a different version of the game, so basically he is just saying that he liked the old version better.

Masterpain22

If placement has changed, then technically it is a horrible port. But still an awesome game.

Everyone else in the world, however, is probably saying: shut up and tediously memorize something else so you can be happy on your deathbed.

Hm. Wait.

onidavin

oh geez...

he's complaining because his previously memorized enemy placement is no longer the same and GOD FORBID you have to actually use SKILLS instead of rote memorization like test on naming all 50 States...

what a tool!!

icepick314

Ridiculous.

Jaysunli

Wow... Way to nitpick.

He must hate capcom (Resident Evil/Megaman)

z357x

Ikaruga LOL? More like Kingoro58k LOL!

Scazza

@Anemone

Uh, don't you mean Steve Weibe? He is now the undisputed DK champ.

Rubix42

To a lesser extent I can understand his position... to a lesser extent.

Hell, I remember the transition from Halo to Halo 2 made me sad because I eventually found out Halo's awsome zoom pistol was replaced with the puny magnum.

I still enjoyed the game, but it just wasn't the same (I even played the PC version of Halo for online play until some of my friends bugged me to get back to Halo 2).

Though, to say he hates the game for its change may be going a little extreme... or maybe not extreme enough?

GDW1017

He's pissed because he has to learn new enemy placement and lazer directions? How utterly lame.

Bauske

Kingoro58k is a terrible player
Kingoro58k LOL

GodzillaVsJapan

Kingoro58k clearly has no life.

Nexus6

I hate to say it, but if anyone has a say in it I guess it would be that guy. I mean if Billy Mitchell came out and started talking all sorts of shit on the Amiga Donkey Kong I'm not about to second guess him. Being hypothetical of course.

Anemone

God forbid he would have to adjust to something NEW. Seriously, it's not skill if you just memorize enemy patterns and follow a set movement.
That's not even really "playing".

Erwin

@vega480: What? I don't see a problem here! I've seen people hate for less. This guy actually has a reason to hate. He didn't want a better game, he wanted a perfect port. If you don't get what you want, you should hate it. My parents raised me on this principle. My mother calls me every now and then to remind me what a failure of a son I am :(

...I love you mom :)

okenny :)

....wow. All I'm reading is "THEY CHANGED WHAT I SPENT MONTHS MEMORIZING SO IT'S HORRIBLE." Reminds me of the shitstorms that happen whenever Blizzard removes the attunement quests for things - the hardcore raiders always throw gigantic fits over it.

Sidenote, I have the Gamecube version of Ikaruga. Is it DC/Arcade or was it changed?

Lyrai

He can no longer define his life by a game he has mastered. He has to start again!

MonkeyBiz

lol, discomforting the shmup pro

Zamzoph

if they changed some things, doesnt that mean its not a port?

Crawl to China

Punch line overload.

But hey I guess if the enemy placement in Ikaruga is the worst thing in his life right now, things are A-Ok.

mva5580

Pedant.

Bernard McGraw

What a moron.

Captain Impulse

@vega480: Basically. Now he can't play through the game robotically until he gets used to the new placement. Therefore, it is obviously terrible.

idkmybffgreg

So he went and memorized every enemy placement of the DC version, and now he's pissed off because they slightly altered it?

RiotPig

so he hates it because he now has to change the way he plays because of some changes?

vega480

I've been playing the GameCube version religiously for years and have been playing the XBLA version since my roomate got it. The third level isn't diffirent, whats really changed is the final chapter. I defenately have to learn the game in a new way but I don't mind. I'm just really happy people are talking about one of my favorate games again.

vanderblade

@Rubix42:

No, Steve Wiebe is currently in second place behind Billy Mitchell:
[www.twingalaxies.com]

imikedaman

If the complaint is that the missiles sometimes don't lock on properly, then that is in fact something to I'd be bothered by.

Otherwise, whatever.

JB4GDI

@Maldron: Or... it wasn't broken, you changed it - and you improved it. Dun dun dunnnnn! The plot thickens!

Krytha

Wait, now I thought this came out on the cube, not the dreamcast, did I miss something???
I have nothing constructive nor insultive to add to this, simply a question. I own Ikaruga on cube but havn't bothered to play it simply because if I die after beating the first boss of the first level of a game, I'm pretty much not going to make further than that.
~Peace~

Cozwic

@Otacon91: Rent it only. It's extremely short and I was bored with it even though I'm a fan of the series. (I 100% completed it in less than 4 hours.)

Bobby Blackwolf

@Anemone: What is there to merit? Am I missing something here? No one made him buy the goddamn game. He's still number one, and it's still Ikaruga.

God-fucking-forbid maybe the people who ported the game over decided to throw a lil curve ball into the game to make it somewhat harder seeing as how it's an old game and there are tons of people out there who have memorized every aspect of it.

If it pissed him off that much, go back to playing the Dreamcast version and stop crying about it. Or he could do something REALLY constructive with his time and read a book, or even meet a girl.

Otacon91

Lemme guess...got his ass handed to him because of the minor changes, and wants to blame the version. What a whiner.

relic1980

@Otacon91: no no, he didn't just write this on his blog. The main beef people are having is that he wrote it on his Gamertag's bio, which is why he's so desperately trying to keep his first-place position.

muu

@T6Spades: Fixed. Don't worry, you can thank me later Kingoro58k.

T6Spades

Um... is his biggest complaint that the placement has changed? I can't read the complete list of his dislikes because it is all in Japanese, but I still don't see how that makes it Ikaruga LOL version 1.3

So he'll have to change a bit of his game to accommodate the subtle differences in the versions. He isn't the top ranked Ikaruga player for nothing, right?

Krytha

This isn't Kingoro58k, this is Kingoro58k LOL.

T6Spades

Given the niche appeal of the 2D shooter genre, it tends to attract more than it's fair share of game snobs. I get the sneaking suspicion that if this wasn't an issue, he'd probably be complaining just as loudly about something like screen resolution or something ridiculous like that.

Vexorg

@Gunhaver: In Ikaruga's case, memorization without dexterity would fail.

ABigSmall

I think it's understandable for anyone to complain about unwarranted changes to an arcade port. If there were a reason it'd be fine but it's just either a mistake or purely for shits and giggles.

t0yrobo

@muu: I agree, they must not have changed it in a manner that ruined it since he still managed to be the best. He is just being a bitter-bitch, but I do think his complaints do have some merit.

Anemone

The original Ikaruga was perfect the way it was. THAT'S his problem. His problem isn't mainly rememorizing. It's that the original Ikaruga was perfect. That's it perfect nothing to add change or subtract. It should've just been in HD and as a hardcore shump'er i thoroughly agree.

-I'll be on the leaderboards this or next week under Fatalpenguin.

NessD12

Well, if he's having problems with the XBLA's version of Ikaruga, why doesn't he just call it Ikaruga: Ikaruga Harder?

Kids these days.

GordieHoweHatTrick

@NessD12: Oh please. Now I may not be the best Ikaruga player out there, but if you need to memorize everything in this game, it's obvious that you're playing it wrong. This isn't Dodonpachi we're talking about here; the game is pretty damn fair.

And so what if they changed it slightly? I already have Ikaruga; I'd rather they throw some new stuff at me than have it just be the same game I bought five years ago. Ping5000 said it best: "good players know how to adapt."

IGoogledMurder

@Dir_en_grey:

I read the blog...

What are you trying to do? Don't you know to post here you just read the inflammatory headline and start typing?!

SeeOne

@NessD12:
seriously you could have ended at the "rent it only" part.

gogators88

@Ping5000: I consider myself a very good SSBM player, when i played SSBB in the Wii for the first time i think its a good game, but its not the same, many small things that make huge differences are not there and that changes the whole game a lot...

TOCATL

well, i dont have to worry about it, I own the DC version

acekrn

Doesn't he have a right to be as upset as he wants to be? No one has to listen to him, of course.

Channing

I read the blog, where does he say he hates it?
All he said was too bad it was a bad port.

He mentions both the good upgraded things and the bad things also.

The bad things he mentioned are legit though, like you can't hit enemies that's at the edge of the screen with either normal shot or homing... I would think that's an important issue?

Dir_en_grey

Oh no, now he has to memorize a new pattern? For that it sucks? It's all about him him him! hehe.

Orionsaint

@NeoAkira: Wasn't RE4 for the Wii a port with some aspects changed? Didn't see anyone bitch about that OR someones bitching make frontpage news either.

Otacon91

It's an understandable complaint. People bitch about fighting games when they get altered for home platforms. Not necessarily because they're whiny bitches (although that is a factor) but because we like a sense of standardization. Someone mentioned the RE game changes, but those are usually fairly announced.

Truth be told, I don't know why they didn't just go ahead with Ikaruga: HD Remix. Start everyone right back at square one.

Gospel X

Precisely why i hate stupid people...

[canucklehead.ca]

Cheodo

Good players learn how to adapt.

Ping5000

@Otacon91:

His comment has merit because the game was supposed to be a complete port. And it isn't as they've obviously changed some aspects of the game. Not to say the guy isn't nitpicking, but he has a point.

NeoAkira

@NessD12: Why is that? I love the show when I catch it on tv at late night.

Otacon91

@Bobby Blackwolf: "fan of the series" That right there invalidated anything you will ever say.

NessD12

@Otacon91: so completely off-topic from everything, but its basically like watching 5 episodes of the show, takes about 2 hours to beat, has its laughs here and there. Worth only a rent at most.

I both agree and disagree with the guy. I mean it sucks if you were expecting a pure port, and with a game like ikaruga changing a few things can really screw up your movements.

Though, at the same time I don't think he should complain too much, at least he got a new port of probably his favorite game (if he's going to that extreme, I think I'm okay saying that) . Hell, why not think of it as a new challenge (if the changes make it a little harder).

Lain01001

Yeesh. If I were him, I'd be happy. This way, he gets to pull some more enjoyment out of a game he obviously loves.

ShaggE

Oh noes! A guy obviously with no life can handle change. He's not the uberz anymore... boohoo

pb00

People! Ikaruga has been around for quite some time now, and all the top scorers are used to the direct arcade port. Though it may seem like a minor change to you, it's a HUGE change to them. Having to memorize parts over after playing them for years on end and reacting on instinct isn't exactly simple to override.

And skills? Ikaruga IS memorization and timing at it's finest.

TornadoTK

@Cozwic: First port was given to the Dreamcast, with the Gamecube version coming a year later.

Otacon91

So, why not just play the DC version and stop whining?

I mean, if that's the version you prefer, who gives a shit what your XBLA ranking is?

splines

@Otacon91:

The RE4 port to the Wii isn't comparable to the Ikaruga port to XBL. For starters RE4 had to incorporate Wii controls and the enemy spawns or attack patterns aren't very important. Ikaruga is an arcade-style shooter that uses the same controls (joystick and buttons, no waggle) on every system it's been on and is highly affected by enemy spawn and attack patterns.

And if you didn't think anyone bitched about the RE4 port to the Wii then you must not read much gaming news.

Now I would recommend reading beyond the title of the article and going to his blog. You'll see he has some very valid points for the bad changes and even outlines what he considers good changes.

NeoAkira

@SeeOne:
Well, seems like there are some dumbasses (And I'll bet you it's from Kotaku readers) posting comments on that guy's blog without even being able to read Japanese to verify what exactly he said.

The guy said that he hasn't played Ikaruga in 6 years, but felt something wasn't right about it so he went back to the DC version and compared them.
I don't see how the hell is that whining at all, and here's the response that we can expect no less from the hard core 360 dumb ass fans:

"You whiney little bitch."
Posted by Ching Chong Chinaman

"LOL HI FATASS. ENJOYING BEING A JAP LOL. OH SRY I CAUGHT U WHEN U WERE FAPPIN. OK, ENJOY UR AIDS HAVE A NICE DAY FAGGOT."
Posted by LOL

And I still can't spot where the guy says he hates the XBLA version, all he said was it was a bad port, pointed both the good changes, and the bad.
Showed pics with examples of the changes that was made.... Does he deserve those idiotic comments?

Dir_en_grey

Dreamcast isn't different at all, it's arcade perfect. I think the arcade version used a Naomi board, which is basically Dreamcast

djricekcn

@Maldron: "IF it isn't broken, and you change it, you broke it. It doesn't seem horribly illogical to me"

You obviously don't hold a PhD in economics!

Read this for more details.

108

I don't know much about this game, But I have a question and a statement. Was said game a arcade game? If so how are we so sure that xbl didn't port the actual arcade version to their system? What if the cube and dreamcast version were different from the actual arcade version wouldn't that make the xbl version the real port over the expected but maybe altered dc or cube version????

MikeHateful

Kingoro58k:
This is MADNESS!
THIS ISN'T IKARUGAAAAA!!!!!!!

ShiNZ

Lmao. I call those very very minor changes. Ah well, i like wise owned the DC version but i personally think the XBLA version is very near identical and the "best" version of Ikaruga todate. At least, i couldn't tell there were any changes.

p.s Never read his blog, couldn't care less hes no.1 currently on XBLA, someone will beat him within days.

Tiberian

to him, it's not about learning new placements as he already learned that (for Normal difficulty, easy and hard is not his ''field''). What he's angry is that it isn't a PERFECT PORT when they advertised as so, that's what he's angry at

djricekcn

i own the gc version and i finished the first level with my big bro. I can say I didn't feel any difference.

But this Ikaruga guy might actually have something coming like, the XBLA version is too easy. Do you guys even know what he's complaining about?

Elrinth

From looking at some of the comments here, I guess it's bad to have negative opinions about things. Whaaaatever~

Skythe

I find it highly amusing how many commenters here are now complaining about how this one guy was "complaining."

Do all of you really know how to read Japanese? I for one cannot. And therefore I will not make rash judgments on this sensationalist blog post.

ABigSmall

@TornadoTK:

Not just Ikaruga, but pretty much any of the Japanese "bullet storm" shooters when played at their highest levels are mostly about memorization and timing.

Powerlurker

@NeoAkira:

Well, read through the actual blog(didnt do it before the last post, but decided to after reading through the comments here)

Basically, I dont really see him whining either, however I will still disagree with him about it being a bad port. I see the xbla version as the best version to date. Owning both the other versions as well, I just cant see why someone would care so much about the little things that he claims are bad. I find most of the changes to be improvements, granted I havnt played through the entire game yet so I dont know if later ones really matter as much.

Anyways, I dont really call this news and I have to agree that the title is a bit misleading here.

RuneX

The problem with this is not about if there are changes, the real deal if this makes the game broken, he says that is mostly impossible to make perfect chain on stage 4 in easy because the lasers doesnt get to all the enemies so, if that really true, you cant make a "full chain" in that stage... and thats a broken game for me, even if i will never do something like that.

HayamaAkito

@Dir_en_grey: try clicking the link where it says 'gamertag' on Bash's original post, look at Bio, have a laugh. Better yet, go on Xbox Live, go on the leaderboards and look up his gamercard profile.

The guy obviously knows what he's talking about, and like others have said they're legitimate points, even if they are subtle gameplay changes. The point is whether you're acting in a mature manner when you go out of your way to make sure you stay in 1st place so that people get your 'message' that the game sucks.

muu

All I can say is this guy is a retard.

Seriously, there are no game altering changes other than it looks better and has a few minor gameplay tweeks to make the game a little fresher. If its not ruining the game, whats wrong with making a few minor changes to add a little flavor?

I for one, welcome the fact that the game changed some lazer directions and other little things. To me, these changes make the game better than the original DC/arcade release.

RuneX

OMG THIS IS NUEWS?//

Sorry. Had to get that out.

If he wants to complain that they changed up something in a port, fine. It just makes me glad I have more important things to worry about in life than a game. I just don't see the point of getting that worked up (and culminating with topping the leaderboard on XBLA) over something that really doesn't have any meaning in the grand scheme of things. The change didn't take any food off his table or dollars out of his pocket and the game isn't broken. I don't get the complaint. At all.

Nikolii

@Dir_en_grey: You just owned practically every comment before yours.

Embarrasing, people! :D
I think we all learned something here today.

Yin

well it's amazing (or crazy) that some people can memorize games like this...
treasure did make the change themselves.
he really be that mad bout it..
it is pretty crazy do see the nitty gritty differences in his blog...

xtraman

As blunt as he is, he does have a point. Ikaruga on XBLA was, as far as I know, promoted as being the same as the arcade game, but in HD. Changing the game's content like this negates that, and in a genre where memorization is highly important, altering the pattern can seriously screw things up.

Lezard

It's one thing for people to call someone a baby. It's another to flat out go to the guys online door step and make racist remarks against him. That's just f'ed all the way around.

MikeHateful

THIS GAME SUCKS BECAUSE MY SHOES DON'T RUN FAST ENOUGH ANYMORE!!!

x999x

@RiotPig:

That's the idea behind a Shump and getting high scores?

Terance

@NeoAkira: See you didn't listen. What I said was I can't beleive this made news because he wanted to complain about change in a game he mastered, and then felt the need to blog about it as if it was a life changing event.

Otacon91

Although I'm not that good at the game, I can somewhat sympathizes with him. This port does feel a bit odd, I own the DC and GC versions as well.

projectg

@Grey_Fox: What a waste of a nice account name.
@RuneX: Keep in mind this guy most likely memorized every last detail and part of the game, so any sort of change to the game whatsoever can completely turn him off from that version of it. Don't tamper with nostalgia and you wont hear people complain.

I played Turtles in Time off of some other TMNT game my little cousin had. I was SO excited to play the game once again....then I noticed that the game was changed up. The sound effects were replaced, enemies and stages were missing, and an entire boss was changed. Fact is, the game was changed, even if the core majority of it was still there. They changed things that mattered to him and in the end they ruined the experience he was expecting and cherished.

Try to put yourself in someone else's shoes rather than insulting them.

Furious_Liver

@JooNkeN: At least Mr. Ashcraft's getting some extra dough in the mail with all these page views ;)

ABigSmall

Something in this equation is certainly "LOL," but it's not the game.

Luziphir

A whiny guy complaining about how he can't play the game the exact same way as before isn't news Kotaku. Come on guys.

Grey_Fox

Wtf Kotaku, this isn't FOX NEWS.
Why are you reporting this matter in a way so that Kingoro58k is an absolute dick?

As others have pointed out, he isn't whining about the changes. He made a comparison of the two versions and pointed out what's good and bad. What he's most likely annoyed about is that it was supposed to be a perfect port and they failed to deliver.

Yet, you're reporting this matter as if he's whining like a little bitch about a few minor insignificant changes; while completely dismissing the note of port quality. You fail to mention that he did point out of the good changes.

I believed in you, Kotaku; but you failed me.

JooNkeN

Headline should be "Top Rated Ikaruga Player Trolls the Entire Intarwebs."

celery

@Furious_Liver: TMNT off XBLA is the arcade version, not the NES version.

TheRemedy

@JooNkeN: It's not the article that's the problem. After reading through it I didn't think the guy came off as whiny or anything like that at all. It wasn't even Kotaku who explained the reasons behind the hate, but commenter Muu.

Rather, it's the commenters who love to fill in the blanks and post their own conclusions on the matter. Nowhere in the article did it specifically state he was mad because he had to memorize the game again due to different enemy placements. People just made assumptions and others followed because ragging on the guy suddenly became the popular thing to do.

"What a moron", "Ridiculous", "He needs a life", "Kingoro58k LOL", "Whiny".

I hope none of the commenters complained when Wavedashing was removed from Brawl and people had to learn new techniques.

UmeShoryu

The shmup community has gone from being lovable to huge dicks over the past 3 years or so. I mean they've always been pretty competitive and insular but now they're just coming across as annoying and hard to please

Which is really too bad because I'm afraid it'll turn people off to some of the really great 2d scrolling shooters out there.

DeBurgo

@muu:
Well if he sux at the game then I don't think he can get number 1 even if he goes out of his way.
He posts the changes between the original and the new "port" to back up why he thinks it's a bad port.

AC版をメインに斑鳩を遊ぼうと思ってる人には辛いだろうな...ここまで内容が違うと両立できる気がしないわ

He's basing he's views on the port from the arcade version, and he clearly states it.

You keep on saying even if they are minor changes, but from what he listed seems like there are 3 or more changes or bugs he found from each stage that can affect the gameplay.
You used the laser beam placement as an example of what he listed, why not mention what he said about not being able to shoot enemies when they are near the edge of the screen? How about some things having no hit-box at all and some have bigger hit box.

He seems to be neutral when pointing out the changes and even make notes of somethings that he wasn't sure about.

I don't personally care either way because I'm not that good enough to pass the levels with or without the changes, I guess I'm defending the guy only because I feel he's being unfairly accused when he has valid points and giving neutral comments when he points them out.

Plus,（笑）とか "ｗ" とかは半分冗談って事でじょ？見た感じ彼のBioがただの洒落だと思うが、、、I'm just guessing here, but seems like you took it more seriously than what he intended, and it bothers you and 95% of the people here more then anything that he is pointing out the changes to a game you guys like?

Doesn't seem to me like he's whining, but if anybody doesn't like him pointing out the bugs and changes in the XBLA version, there's always an option to become number one yourselves, right? =)

Dir_en_grey

has anyone seen that video in the arcade, where the kid plays as both players at the same time?
i can't find it anymore.

swift_tiger

@Dir_en_grey: It's pretty obvious most people didn't read the blog and just wanted to post one-line insults towards the guy. It's also unfortunate that those same people will probably never read your points.

I wanted to read what he wrote but saw it was in Japanese. :/ So thank you for clarifying everything with your comments in this article.

UmeShoryu

you'd think a guy who's played the game that much would welcome a change. but i dunno', i suck at near enough everything, particularly shmups, and wouldn't even notice if they spelt 'ikarugi' with a 5 on the title screen and every enemy was now pink.

xbulletholes

@icepick314: The more fascinating aspect of this rant is that ikaruga is predictable enough to be memorized. That's not my kind of game. It reminds me of DDR, once you hit the memorization threshold, it's time to go home, be done. The randomized mode is much more fun!

cybereal

Well, as lame as his comment may be, you have to understand him: Ikaruga is shittingly HARD, most of us need weeks or months of play just to BEAT it. He has made it to the top spot, he probably did too in the DC/GameCube version. For that version there are people that are plainly GOD (I'm sure most of you have seen the guy that can use 2 ships at the same time). So, he can now make it to a leaderboards that most people can see (there were online Ikaruga ones, but no-one looked at them), but he cannot do it as well as he could. And he is pissed.

Lame and whinny, but understandable.

LaughingCrow

It may be predictable enough to be memorized, but have you ever played a scrolling shooter that wasn't? No. You haven't. Every single one EVER is either just a bunch of times events that always occur the exact same way at the exact same time, or they're predictable pattern-based (and the latter variety is EXTREMELY rare, and usually not even as good as the former variety).

That's part of the genre. You play it and die a thousand times, but eventually you GET IT. Just like a Contra game. The Contra series is revered for the same thing, from the first one, to Contra III Alien Wars, the first Contra game on PS2 (Shattered Soldier), and Contra 4 for the DS. They're all the same way. The same stuff happens no matter what the player does, and beating those games largely requires the player to memorize exactly what to do and when to do it. And all 4 of those games are considered to be phenomenal by the majority.

And besides, memory just makes it easier. It doesn't make it impossible if you don't memorize the levels, and it doesn't make it a cakewalk if you do, especially in a game like Ikaruga. Ikaruga has so much going on sometimes, that even if you know exactly what to do you can still die because it requires such intense precision that merely controlling the ship to do what your brain knows it needs to do is a challenge in and of itself.

Strange Bedfellows

@SeeOne: lol

@Dir_en_grey: Yeah, I can't read Japanese. (Who knew it all looked like question marks?) I went to the site and wished I could. I could read "DC" and "XBLA" in a few places and I guessed which screen shot was which, but I could have been wrong. To an Ikaruga afficiando, there were probably some obvious differences, but to my untrained eye, I only saw that one was a direct feed kind of screenshot and the other was like someone taking a picture of the television. I don't know the guy's comments and probably wasn't even going to post on this topic until I saw your post.

Eltigro

pft, what sucks is the XBLA version of Galaga. The fire rate is all f'd up.

SAKY

If it's different than the original, then it is a bad port. It's that simple.

And are most of you guys new to vertical shooters or something? They are all about memorization. That's the way you beat them. You learn the patterns. There's no secret about this; there's no pretending that the game is any different each time you play. It is always the same. It's all about precision; it's about knowing the patterns and practicing your path through them.

It's a cardinal sin to port a vertical shooter to another platform and make structural changes to the game in the process.

It's really no different than taking a famous race track in a racing game like, say, Suzuka, and making a hairpin turn go to the right instead of the left in a port to a new system. Would you consider this a "minor" change? It would screw up the accuracy of the entire track. It's not about "adapting". The problem is it's no longer Suzuka. And even if you've driven the real-life Suzuka and know every pebble and inch of asphalt on it, you're going to have no idea what this "Suzuka" is in this game you're playing, or how to drive it. That's a big problem.

badasscat

@badasscat:
So true, so true.

Brian Ashcraft

ikaruga is an amazing game. ikaruga HD is an amazing game. Did I hear bitching because Rez HD felt wonky compared to the original? No. I didn't. Anyone who can't accept change in a shmup borders on being either stupid or mentally handicapped.

If anything, I wouldn't bitch about the changes, I'd embrace them. It's something new to learn. Kingoro58k gives hardcore gamers a bad name.

Sorta reminds me of the whole CvS2 roll cancel bug that high tier players insist on being there. Nevermind that it's not meant to be there and gives the player using it an unfair advantage, IT WAS IN THE ORIGINAL!! This is a bs argument just like Kingoro's. Things need balance or change to continue to strive.

Treasure did this to give him something new to beat. I highly doubt they wanted him to bitch about it.

shadowjin

Well I wouldn't know what's past stage 3 because I STILL can't beat it.

chirokitsune

I don't understand why people are giving this guy a hard time.

Let's say you're playing *insert fav. game here* and you get to one of the bosses and the way the boss attacks is different than what you're used to. Imagine the game's boss requires some skill and precision not unlike Ikaruga. Wouldn't you be a bit peeved about the change?

StupidDufus

@badasscat: I understand what your saying and i guess i could agree that it wasn't a perfect port, yet i think your analogy is flawed. Your comparing a real-world track to a game that exists in a fake universe. I hope that made sense. My point is the game may have structural changes, but it still functions perfectly. With enough skill one would be able to play it as well as any other version, i guess what im trying to get at is in my opinion i feel that the minor changes they made do not affect the overall experience. But, then again i rarely play any shmups so i may not know what im talking about, i just really enjoyed ikagura on xbla a lot.

smuckersisgood

Kingoro may be the highest-rated player on normal mode but "ga key" is the highest rating player on hard mode.

I may not be good at Ikaruga (so far I only have unlocked 6/12 achievements) but I think the hard mode deserves a much higher praise than normal, no ?

Thanks for inputs from skilled players.

"ga key" got 29+ million points in hard mode and his replay looked much more impressive to me.

PS: As for his criticism, I think it's unfortunate, but unimportant. A port is always a port. If you want the real thing, buy an Ikaruga PCB and a Japanese cab. Case closed. It's worth the admission price if you love the game so much that you play it for months if not years.

Voltron

any word on whether or not these changes were in the GC version? this hardly seems like much to hate on. i see where he's coming from to an extent, considering that change of any sort is entirely unnecessary, but this isn't quite so big a difference as, say, beefing up zangief and t. hawk.

thaKingRocka

if he has a problem with it, which imo i think is absurd he should just play the arcade or dreamcast version, if he is the best then he would most likely own another version of it. I thought the xbla version kicked ass though i never played it on anything else. seems like hes making mountains out of mole hills as they say

smuckersisgood

@badasscat: My analogy was going to be chess, but yes.

People are turning this into N'gaigate for nothing. The Kingoro guy has a legitimate gripe, and people are engaging their mouths before their brains........when any one of them would cry to the heavens if someone ported THEIR favorite game and then changed a bunch of stuff around.

*pictures a remake of Final Fantasy VII where Cloud has a mohawk and a naginata.*

Billkwando

Wow, personally I am glad I haven't been to this site in a while. You posters are nothing but twats with nothing relevant to back up your opinions, and even less informed for not reading the blog.
He is still in first place, he didn't get owned you fuckers.
Some games are born perfect, alright?
What if some team took goldeneye, messed with all the recoil values, and let enemies shoot through walls with more accuracy, and changed level design.
I for one, would also have to agree that, the level design wouldn't make it "harder", even though it would kill those OOAgent Runthroughs, but it would be tampering with a game that had no real flaws whatsoever.
You guys are lame.

theprof00

All these negative comments about him are just jealous players (yes you). He complains, but still #1 on the leaderboards? I say, listen to him, he can back up his shit.

Kanadwen

@badasscat: And that is why you are one of the people with stars.

Witzbold

@Otacon91:

No I did listen, but I ignored it as it was you bitching about game-related news on a gaming blog. I can't believe you don't realize this. :D

NeoAkira

All the people being negative here obviously have never mastered any game in their life. If they had, they'd understand Kingaro85k's statement.

For example, there's some serious changes in the Guitar Hero 3 engine from the GH2 engine. Understandable, as it's a different developer, but still. Some of these changes are big enough that it's driven me to stop playing GH3.

Roadkill

While I agree with the fact that the "purist" in me dislikes such changes (isn't that the whole point of "arcade perfect ports"?), I'm also curious as to the "why". Is there a reason these changes were made?

RPGr

btw, these changes aren't anything the average gamer cares about, so if you don't know the scene why do you even care.

I don't know shooters but it's the same thing w/ fighting games.

GhaleonUnlimited

Cue the "wah wah" but every gamer who's nerdly in the slightest knows how this guy feels. Gimmie a break.

GhaleonUnlimited

Does anybody notice that Kingoro58k is holding the number one spot on XBLA Ika? The guy has like a 31 million score. I've seen his earlier replay and aside from somethings that were done differently from the Ika Appreciate DVD, he's a really good player.

A lot of people in these comments are dissing him for being a player that memorizes the game's patterns and what not. Well, guess what; the game IS that type of game. Are you just dissing this guy just because he can play it better than you and you're jealous of that?

Besides he's not whining, he's stating that the game has been changed when it was ported which makes it in his eyes; a bad port. The game is about accuracy and they've changed that, and when it's supposed to be a direct transfer; NOT AN INTERPRETATION, then it's a poor port. Don't you guys remember the arcade to console days? They'd change tons of stuff and we would all complain about how different it is or how it isn't as good as the arcade version. Guess what; SAME THING.

Kuren

@GDW1017: I killed a guy in Halo 3 the other night. I had the magnums and he had the shotgun. Both teams were going crazy in the post-game lobby. Man, the pistols suck now.

skrame ☆

@Grey_Fox: A whiny guy complaining about how he can't play the game the exact same way as before isn't news Kotaku. Come on guys.

Here's some breaking news: This is blog.

NoBullet

So much silliness from both sides of the fence here. It is completely valid to want the mechanics of a port to work exactly like the original. It is also absolutely fine to enjoy a port that differs from its original title. Especially if the changes do not break the game in any really applicable context.

Ideally, all ports would follow the SF2 HD Remix philosophy: a mode with retouched mechanics, and a mode with the original mechanics. I, myself, wouldn't have minded seeing a remix mode in Ikaruga (think DC Mars Matrix, for the two of you who understand the reference), as I played the original to death and wouldn't mind something new. But I also understand that part of the allure is in the original game.

A little understanding goes a long way. That's my $0.02.

Handsome Fat Man

well i can whine about tate mode not having the ability to swap controls....triggerheart even has it so i am kinda disappointed.

smackthenun

badasscat beat me to it (and wrote a more thorough comment), however...

To those who say memorization is "not skill" or "not the way the game is meant to be played," the most skilled players in the world and the developers of the game disagree with you. And they might have an idea of what skill is or what the game is supposed to be. Just saying...

@cybereal:
Your DDR analogy is a good analogy, but you got the wrong result. I bet if you memorized a stepchart, and played against a skilled PAer, you would still lose. Even if they didn't have it memorized. DDR isn't about rote memorization; it's about familiarity of patterns and body positioning (which you might call memorization), but it's mostly about timing.

ninjafetus

@smuckersisgood:

His analogy was perfectly fine. If you want something more tangible maybe this will assist you?

Your automotive vehicle has no power steering fluid, which would fit the classification as a structural change. The vehicle still functions perfectly without it and with enough skill you would be able to drive just as well with that vehicle as any other.

Wouldn't you?

placebofud

Ahh... the Internet. I guess it should be no surprise that many of the comments here are as poorly thought out as in other places as YouTube.

1) "ZOMG, he has to memorize the game... he has no skill."

Interesting to note that in the very first paragraph of this article Kotaku writes, "The current top-rated numero uno player Kingoro58k..."

Now either, all the people making this comment are illiterate or they just don't realize that what they are saying doesn't make sense.

Don't bash a guy's skill level if you can't even beat his score. Since he's number 1, I think he is more qualified to make an opinion on the game than anybody else.

2) "Why is this guy complaing about such minor details?"

The game was touted as a direct port apparently. It didn't fulfill this promise and this guy listed the reasons why.

A direct port should mean exactly that. The game itself should not be changed. The game was not advertised as a sequel like Super Ikaruga II Turbo or something.

As a tournament Street Fighter player, I can understand how small details can make such a big difference.

The PS2's Super Street Fighter II Turbo packaged within Capcom Collections 2 is a great example of this. David Sirlin (the guy currently working on Super Turbo HD Remix) touted that the version of ST in Capcom Collections 2 would be arcade perfect.

It was eventually found that the game has 5 frames of input lag, and because of this, all the top players hate the game. 5 frames of lag may not mean much to the average player, but it means a lot in high level play.

On a tangent, there have been various bugs being reported on the message board linked by Kotaku in this article on some major bugs being discovered such as the game ending prematurely, the game locking up, and people playing stages without a SHIP!. These are major bugs which kind of give evidence to the poor quality of this port.

hamster78

@Dir_en_grey: Could you translate some of the GOOD changes he mentioned?

The whole promising a perfect port and not delivering WOULD irk some people. Otherwise you'd have a LOT more complainers over the upcoming SSFII HD remake, with its new "Fine-tuned" mode. The difference being that Capcom is offering that as a separate mode in addition to the original.

Genjitsu

If he didn't reclaim his #1 spot I could see this being more of a complain WAH WAH. But he actually got back to #1 spot so I think he has a right to complain about that. I would be upset to if all my time memorizing a game was then changed and I had to rememorize it. But congrats to him, it's one helluva hard game!

Nikral

Wow. Pretty much what most others said - he memorized it and they changed a couple things so he hates it?

Personally I find this hilarious - it's like they changed it just to mess him up.

I can take this in pretty good humor too - I play games like Beatmania, DJ Max, Guitar Hero, etc... you can't help but kind of memorize the levels, but I probably wouldn't notice if they moved a few notes or added a couple more. If it messed up the people who just memorize notecharts, then they get what they deserve!

fuchikoma

I'm somewhat surprised that no one has mentioned VTF-INO. I don't know how he stacks up againt others, but I remember finding a bunch of videos by him, back when this game came out on DC, showing some incredibe skill. There are some videos of him playing 1P and 2P at the same time scoring S++ ranking. Videos can be found at:

[www.ikaruga.co.uk]

YouTube:
Chapter 3: Double Play

+ Watch video

Chapter 4: Double Play

+ Watch video

Chapter 5: Double Play

+ Watch video

hamster78

I uh.... good for him?
I don't particually care what this pro thinks. These changes seem really minor to me, and from most the comments here, I'm not alone thinking this.

Zeouterlimits

He seems to be a bit whiney. Thousands of people are no playing Ikaruga who never had the chance to before and are LOVING it. Its the 7th most popular live game atm and ranked higher than army of 2. For an old arcade/dreamcast game that is pretty good.

Who cares that they changed/moved a few enemies about? People who spend their lives obsessing over one game pointlessly that's who. We still have the polarity system and ONLINE PLAY. Laggy as hell sure, but it is a decent effort.

I love the game. That fool can take his hatorade elsewhere.

PS: Yahtzee, please for the love of god do not review this game. I do not want you to rip it apart eloquently - let me have my delusions!

EdwinJ85

You know, I think I've changed my mind about this. I'm on the "adapt" side now. While I still think the ideal solution would have been an option to play the original game or a remix, that certain elements of the game has changed should not be held against it.

Port or not, this is the XBLA version of Ikaruga. Ikaruga 360, if you will. It is not Ikaruga Arcade, Ikaruga DC, or Ikaruga GC. It also isn't Galaga. <-- There's a reason I said that. Ikaruga 360 is its own entity, with its own leaderboards, options, control schemes, etc. It doesn't share leaderboards with any other version of Ikaruga, nor does the game change if played on a different XB360.

There is no rule set in stone that says that a port must strictly adhere to its source. There is also no reason, given the changes we currently know of, that the theme and objective of the game has changed in the slightest. Ikaruga 360 is still about managing your ship's polarity to survive, damage enemies, and gain high scores. The ship still fires black or white projectiles, as do enemies. You can still make chains for points.

The game is not any less about accuracy, timing, memorization, etc. than it was before. If you claim otherwise, present evidence. And make sure you look at the Galaga reference I made earlier. It encapsulates my entire point.

Handsome Fat Man

@Handsome Fat Man: Bashing a guy's skill level who's ranked #1 is kind of inane.

Besides, I'd take a person's word who's proved their skill and knowledge at the game, who provides examples to back up their claim over Joe Blow commentor X (over 9000!) who disagrees with the expert and provides no reasoning to back up their statement.

hamster78

@Kuren: The game is about accuracy and they've changed that

A slightly changed Ikaruga is no longer about accuracy? Huh. What did they change, exactly?

@hamster78: Being the best at anything doesn't make anybody's words irrefutable.

@placebofud: That analogy is flawed, unless part of the XBLA changes is stiffer controls.

Handsome Fat Man

@DarkHogosha: I'm surprised you didn't mention the countless horrible SF Alpha 3 ports. Those ports had to be some of the worst ports ever.

hamster78

Uh...the guy's got a legit complaint. Fighting game players face the problem all the time when they have to go from version to version of a game (arcade to Japanese to American to update to whatever), and it REALLY messes with you. Want an example or two?

-- Super Turbo Vega's wall dive changed from charge down, up+K to charge down, K, up on SFAC, making Vega next to unplayable at home.
-- 3rd Strike, Akuma's f+mp is throwable on consoles but not on arcades.
-- Guilty Gear XX AC, Bridget blows in the console one and Sol's got some added broken crap in what's supposed to be a straight arcade port.
-- 3rd Strike (again), the Dreamcast one had a frame of startup lag before every move and a frame less of recovery after every move.

List is endless. Guy's got a legit complaint.

DarkHogosha

@Handsome Fat Man: Definately. Adaptation is a sign of true skill.

The fact that this guy is the top of the leaderboards demonstrates that.

I just find all the comments about this guy being a scrub kinda dumb.

It's like, Kobe Bryant walking on to some random basketball court and schooling everybody.

Then he comments that the basketball court is not regulation since the basket is too low and the 3 point line is too close.

Then everyone on the court is like, "ZOMG Kobe Bryant is a scrub! He has to play on an NBA regulation court!" Nevermind that Kobe just owned them all hardcore on their own court.

A better example would probably be baseball since playing fields at each ball park can vary.

You are probably sure to hear players mention that they prefer the old Yankee stadium over the new over game related reasoning (nostalgia aside). To question their skill for making such a statement is dumb.

hamster78

Sounds like he is bitching because they changed up a couple parts of the game. Maybe for balance issues or to maybe make it harder.

Now he has to learn how to play these sections again and he is pissed, which is a STUPID reason to bash a game.

Its not like they broke the game or made it crappy. Kotaku shouldnt post crap like this, it gives a bad name to the game when it doesnt deserve anything but praise.

parad0x360

I don't know why I'm responding this late, and while on two hours of sleep, but...
@badasscat: I agree that memorization is important in a vertical shooter and it's one of the things that brings me back, but I never saw that as a skill. I just can't feel for this guy. It seems he doesn't play for fun, just for his god damn leaderboard placement. We obviously play to see that score climb higher, but this is some guy saying Ikaruga sucks only because of that small a change. It's still fun, he's just pissed because he has to change up his strategy and he has clearly adapted already, so I don't know what he has left to complain about. Maybe if I were one of the hardcore all time great players I would be annoyed, but I just can't see it from his side. I do think those comments on his blog from people were a little much though. Also, as for your first point: Aren't most ports noticeably different anyway?

Erwin

@hamster78: Very true.

@Billkwando: Where is this rule?

@Erwin: Just because he is attempting to maintain a high score on the leaderboards does not mean he isn't playing the game for "fun." I use fan infinites and "cheap" Dedede tactics in Super Smash Bros. Brawl in order to win, and I still have a lot of fun.

Handsome Fat Man

@hamster78: i'm so happy you found the videos, i couldn't find them for some reason.
it really makes him look badass.

swift_tiger

@Handsome Fat Man:
There is no rule set in stone that says that a port must strictly adhere to its source.

Uh, yes there is.

Otherwise, it graduates from "port" to "bad/fair/ok port". Also see "bastardization".

Billkwando

He is quite valid. They were promised an arcade perfect port, didn't recieve one, and in the shmup genre, this is vital. People whining about adaptation: news flash, he DID adapt, still #1. Just that he feels the game is inferior now.

ZinkO: The Game (the kind you just lost)

@Billkwando: A port is not necessarily exact copy. By its very nature a software port is often a modified copy. There is no hard and fast rule anywhere, nor is it implied by definition, that a port must adhere to its source as closely as humanly possible.

@Erwin: If this particular consumer was promised an arcade-perfect port, they plunk down their money, and get something that is not an arcade-perfect port, they have reason to be upset. That said, I don't know if Ikaruga 360 was "promised" to be anything, mind you.

Handsome Fat Man

@Handsome Fat Man: I just don't see how someone complains about a fun game because of some very small changes. But I don't care about my leader board standings so I don't get his perspective on the thing. He's already got the "new" version down, so why keep complaining? I just don't get it...

Erwin

@Handsome Fat Man:

It's not so much a rule as it is a definition.

A port is a copy. Things are sometimes sacrificed in ports due to limitations in hardware and programming, but I think it's pretty much the consensus that a port should only deviate from the original when some technical roadblock dictates it must, not "whoo hoo! let's just take a left turn here for shits and giggles"

For that, see "sequel" and/or "redesign" and/or "reimagining".

You're really just being hardheaded at this point if you pretend you don't understand.

Billkwando

@Handsome Fat Man: I don't remember any "arcade-perfect" promises. My recollections of the press release seem to involve someone saying "Ikaruga on Live" and then the wild cheers made the rest impossible to hear.

Erwin

What a crybaby ... just play you're DC version then.

Strangelove

Heh, even after I posted last night hoping the same thing wouldn't happen again, some idiot still manages to post a "you suck" on the guy's blog...
And from the many comments here today I guess people don't read other's comments before they post.

Not that the mis-leading title of the original post helped any. I've been noticing that on other Kotaku posts lately too, mis-leading titles so there would be a discussion.
Like someone else pointed out, you get more view counts this way... I'm fairly new here and I guess I've always thought of Kotaku just like any other Gaming News Site (atleast trying to be unbiased), but just done in a blog form. But I guess when there are ads and money is involved, business is business? And I guess I have no problem with that, as long as now that I know what I'm reading.

@Erwin:
That was how it was advertised on all the news and game sites. It's still on the official site: [www.treasure-inc.co.jp]
完全移植 means "Perfect Port".

Even at forum SuperPlay! [www.super-play.co.uk] from this Original Kotaku Post people that actually play the game are mentioning it's a "weird port" with "unreasonable changes" and "bugs".

@Genjitsu:
I'll do a straight translation, from his blog post 4/14:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"Since I want to make it organized for myself, I'll list the changes that were made from the Arcade/DC version. Just so you know, it's been 6 years since I played Ikaruga, so note that there might be my own misunderstanding and mistakes included. Also, note that I'm basically talking about Normal Mode. Easy and Hard are not of my expertise so I wouldn't know.

[Improvements]
-It's cheap in price
-There is no more lag, or barely any lag when inputing commands.
-Hi-def
-Many new options that were very thoughtful and well done
-Replay Option
-Net Ranking Option
-Net Co-op Option (Even though some lags will occur during input command, you will not feel the hiccup of the graphics trying to match the other player at all, I'm very moved by