He obviously never been to Korea.

[ca]

+ Watch video

When you strip it down the only difference is the that the Pro ST player would probably lose in a fight against the average Olympic athlete.

nightshade71986

@noliferuin (PSN): Zing!

KafkaTamura

Sexist fucking pig.

Replica23

I do wonder, will bashing games cure the doping problems encountered daily by Olympic sports? Just curious that's all.

pABSO

@ankhenaten:

Sure, beating Metroid under a hour is an achievement, but will it bring you success? Probably not. The discipline needed to perform well in sports can carry on in the real world, and perhaps bring one success, more so than a video game. And don't tell me you require the same amount of discipline to do well in a game as you do to keep yourself in top physical shape for whatever sport you're doing, because that's just not true.

VegetarianMeat

I've never achieved anything with sports either... Well, to be fair, I did win that award back in elementary school once... Fat lot of good that's doing me now. I mean, heck, at least the critical thinking skills and hand eye coordination, finger dexterity, etc. from games carry over to real life scenarios. You know, the thing that kinda matters? The thing that being good at throwing an oblong shaped ball will never really impact? Not to mention all that exercise sends most 'serious' athletes into retirement with achy joints and whatever. Sure, you'll be fit, but you'll be hurting all over... And I have met far less smart 'jocks' than smart gamers. I attribute that to too many knocks in the head... Thank god my sport of choice is soccer.

The only achievement anyone really achieves from sports is perceived. If gaming was as mainstream as sports is, then it would have the same level of reward.

Shadowmist

that's based on a fairly narrow definition of success.

diodegrey

Ohh, Microsoft proved him wrong...

Kovitlac

@VegetarianMeat: I'll assume that is directed at me. Why don't you define achievement and then we can talk about this. I think that many who have posted thus far has pointed out numerous areas of "achievement" possible in video games. However, your ambiguous reference to "game" playing makes me wonder. Do you not realize that sports are "games" too?

Is it acceptable to achieve enjoyment? Or do you have to derive some sort of monitary or other socially recognized value to actually "achieve" something? Also there are many things that you can learn from games, such as social networking, typing, problem solving, how to set goals and achieve said goal with available resources. You can learn about other cultures by participating in international gaming communities. I am sure I could continue, but I have a feeling that none of these register on your "achievement" scale.

What if I do something in a video game that only a very small number of the player base will ever accomplish. Say .01% of all players of that game will accomplish the feat which I accomplish. Is that an achievement? How about if I got paid for the achievement? What if the achievement makes me happy and feel special? What if I learn a lesson from it?

Now if you want to start a debate about productivity and contribution to society at large, then perhaps we can talk in such meta terms. However, game playing in general is inherently not a highly productive activity. Just because you assign dollar value to certain levels of activity does not necessarily mean they are more meaningful than an activity with lower dollar value.

Now, i'm not saying people should spend their whole lives in a virtual world and neglect the real one. But if you enjoy playing a game, and you enjoy being good at that game, as long as you recognize the importance of prioritization then there is nothing wrong with playing and feeling like you have achieved something if you set out to accomplish a certain task.

If you define a personal goal as beating metroid 1 in under 1 hour with zero deaths and you achieve the result; how is that different than any other goal setting activity? Because one you are recognized by others and one you are not? What if you have fun and weren't expecting international recognition? Because one has potential to make you money and the other does not?

Money for the sake of money is not a motivating factor for me, maybe it is for you. I think we need to be realistic about what we are hoping to "achieve" from any activity. I don't expect to be a pro gamer and be paid to play games, but I do expect to enjoy myself when I play games (athletic or otherwise). So I say, "Mission Accomplished."

ankhenaten

...plus the fact that eventually you will become TOO OLD to get the ball in the goal. and then what will you have achieved?

mynameisob3l

i hope you don't piss your life away becoming the best at "getting the ball in the goal" only to break your back or legs in a scrimmage, or you won't have achieved anything with your life.

at the end of the day, a game that makes you *think* exercises your brain, which, in the long run, is probably a better investment.

BUT ISO! YOU COULD JUST AS EASILY BREAK YOUR BRAIN IN A CAR CRASH, AND THEN WHAT LOL

yes, but with a broken brain, an awesome physique is just as useless. ;)

mynameisob3l

And what is it exactly you achieve when playing a game?

VegetarianMeat

Take a look at my gamerscore, then tell me I'll never achieve anything with video games. Hmph!

alby13

@Voteforme2020: What is your definition of success? Is it completeing a goal? Is it finding enjoyment? If someone is looking for a video game to define themselves then I would feel sorry for them. However, I would also feel sorry for a middle aged man who played coed softball one night a week 3 months a year and let that define him.

It is possible to take any activity too seriously. If your lively hood depends on the activity then it is usually more accepted in todays society. Letting your life fall apart for something that many consider useless is usually not a prized attribute, but letting your life fall apart for something that makes you money... well more than a few people respect that for some odd reason.

ankhenaten

Actually,

why is it, that once these people get access to the mass media,they bash gaming?

What the f*** did we do?

juscallmeweasel

@UltimatePancakeSensation: I completely agree here. I was trying to convey the same sentiment in my post. Well said and directly to the point.

ankhenaten

I agree with the sentiment that athletics is more beneficial on a physical level and in our society an exceptional athlete is more prized than an exceptional problem solver/twitch reflex user. But in the end the level of achievement is not dictated by the medium, but rather the audience. Athletics has been around for thousands of years and before "sport;" the activities that sports now emulate were real survival necessities. It is natural that these people would have been highly prized individuals among their respective societal groups.

Jump forward to 21st century Earth and you find that Video Games are a natural progression of these early beginnings. However, instead of requireing actual physical prowess it focuses more on brain function. While video games are still in relative infancy as a medium they are gaining understanding and respect from wider audiences. Someday we will have fully virtual sport where we might be fighting in a Tron like world playing the latest Call of Duty where not only your mental, but also your physical ability will be tested.

For now, those who think sports achievements are more real than video game achievements must recognize the fact that society dictates this and not the activity. Ultimately, the point of the above is to inspire young kids to spend more time with physical activity and less time in front of a screen. While the ends don't justify the means I get his point. However, I do think he completely misses the point of video games and what they attempt to accomplish.

I have seen many terciary benefits from video games, but I have also seen many terciary benefits from participating in sports. In reality you can only participate in some sports until a certain age at which point you are either good enough to make it a career or not, after that it is mearly an enjoyable activity, much like gaming.

I recall working out 6 days a week all through high school so I could "achieve" on the football field. I was so sick of working out that I hated going to the gym and actively decided against working out for five years following the end of my football "career." I was in great shape for a few years, but I did not get a college scholarship or make any money. I learned values unrelated to physical fitness by participating in this sport, such as teamwork, resilience, and dedication. But lets be honest here, are these achievements? Are these fundamentals learnable through other means? Did I already have these values prior to participating in this sport?

Big Picture; Video games are good for society. Sports are good for society. Moderation is of absolute importance in everything. Enjoyment is a close second to moderation.

ankhenaten

Games aren't a sport. If there are people trying to succeed in a game, then I feel sorry for them. I succeed in real life.. killing Dragons? Well, that's just a hobby.

Voteforme2020

@Purple Dave: Good point.

KM91

I'm hearing a lot of surprising things from my fellow gamers in this thread. Things about how there is no value in gaming, how it doesn't make you better in any way, and how it doesn't matter because it's not in the real world.

While that certainly is how society in general views gaming, I'm almost aghast. I expected more of you, Kotakuites.

I want to start off by saying I am in no way intending to badmouth sports. Sports are great; I think that while they are different than games, the two are equal. I would never say that one is better than the other.

Rather, the parts of the body that they stimulate and cause growth in are different. Sports trains the body, strengthening muscles, increasing circulation, etc. Games train the mind, increasing reaction time, fostering problem-solving skills. They even overlap at times; many games and many sports will improve hand-eye coordination.

Is training in one of these areas better than the other? I
don't think so. To each his own, right? Depending on who you are and what you do, certain skills may be more useful than others in your daily routine.

We don't live in the dark ages, and there isn't a drastic need to be physically strong anymore. You can survive without being able to run really fast, endure hours of physical labor, or fight off a wolf with your bare hands. Which isn't to say that these aren't valuable skills - the healthier you are, the longer you're likely to live and the less sickness you'll have to endure, not to mention if you happen to have that rare moment where you have to get out of the way of a drunk driver you may be better equipped to do it.

But at the same time, living in the corporate world that exists today, mental problem solving abilities can really help you get ahead, and having an ingrained understanding of how multimedia interfaces work. The more intelligent you are, the better the job you can get.

Which isn't to say that playing sports and games is the only way to get these skills! "Sports" basically means "physical game". A strict training program with non-game workouts will get you healthier than just playing a sport can, just like actively studying and training your mind has the potential (I say this because we all learn differently) to improve your abilities much more than just playing a video game will. The cool thing is that sports and video games give us an enjoyable way to improve these parts of ourselves.

And in that vein, what is this "real world" that people keep talking about? Are video games not a part of the real world because they're played on a screen? At work I use a screen all day - to send email, to learn things, to finish documents, etc - and that is DEFINITELY real. My ability to do these things determine my success. Just because I'm using my mind instead of my body, is that any less real? Is it any less of an experience?

It's different, but I wouldn't say it's any less real than a sport. A sport is a bunch of imaginary rules that take place in the physical plane, while a video game is a bunch of imaginary rules that takes place in the mental plane. Are either of these "real"? Do they have direct application to "real life"?

That answer is something that each person will answer differently, but if you answer "yes" for one, I'd expect you to answer the same for the other.

UltimatePancakeSensation

Honestly, I wish I grew up playing sports rather than video games. I enjoy an occasional game of football or soccer (I hate basketball and I'm a bit traumatized from it) and I'll even settle for volleyball, tennis, or racquetball, but I'm really not skilled in any sport, nor do I have many friends to play sports with.
Instead, I've grown up as a gamer, and it's taken a heavy toll on me. I was overweight for a good period of my childhood, and it wasn't any fun growing up being ridiculed for it. These days, I stay in shape by going to the gym six days a week, and I've been working out regularly for three years.
Physical fitness is very important to me, for the obvious reasons. I enjoy running, I enjoy challenging myself at the gym, and I enjoy being able to keep my breath after walking several flights of stairs or running to catch a bus or train. When I see some of my friends struggling with even that, it reminds me of when I was younger, and it's a bit troubling for me to see that.
On top of that, video games are far more costly than sports. My collection of video games, from the Genesis era up till now have cost me so much. I had about thirty three Genesis games, twenty PS1 games, atleast fifty PS2 games, and now I've got atleast ten games per current gen system.
It's just crazy when I think about where all that money could have gone had I never grown up enjoying video games.
I suppose the grass is greener on the other side, but I don't really hear too many non-gamers saying they wish they grew up with them.

StevenRafael

My Xbox 360 achievements beg to differ.

SolCross

I got to give him a break. Very few games today are truly score driven, and it's easy to look at something like Assassins' creed or GTA4 and assume the game is about linear progress and all players will achieve the same goal.

It becomes a different matter altogether when you're exposed to the truly hard core though, like the teams of rocket jumping acrobats of Quake 3, or the level of tactics and strategy in high level CS play. Very few people are aware of the amount of effort people put into becoming truly proficient at some games, or how far they'll improvise to make up their own metagames (cat&mouse in PGR is a great example).

I can't judge him, because he simply doesn't know. Extremely few do.

Sunjammer

Perhaps his point is that by playing sports you'll achieve greater health, or something... kind of weak though.

cybereal

I'm torn here. On the one hand I've been playing games for the last twenty years and can honestly attest to the fact that a breadth of experience and knowledge of them really doesn't add anything beneficial to one's life. On the other hand I'm absolutely disgusted with America's (at the very least) worship of athletes. As corny as it may seem, I do find it appalling that one can make more money stuffing a ball through a net than by being an excellent teacher or generally doing something useful for society. Christ, at least artists contribute to the overall intellectual and spiritual health of our culture, and its the lucky few who will ever make enough money to even call it a "day job".

I don't think I'd be prepared to say games offer the individual player any sort of benefit until developers stop pulling punches and deliver truly compelling, challenging (in a moral sense), and artful experiences. I've seen a few titles scratch that surface, but we're not quite there yet.

Nightshift Nurse: Mile High Colonic

I agree with his opinion 100%. You don't achieve anything in video games, you may get good at a specific game, but all you're doing is viewing more content created by someone else, or simply progressing at an accelerated pace; all this of course, means you're cool.

mowh

Being good at anything is an achievement. The problem isn't dissing games, it's over-inflating the value of sports.

Winning the Scrabble championship isn't cool because it makes your brain stronger. It's just impressive because it means you're operating on a pretty high level, and beating out plenty of others who are doing the same.

DrFresh

AChievement:

-noun
1. something accomplished, esp. by superior ability, special effort, great courage, etc.; a great or heroic deed: his remarkable achievements in art.
2. act of achieving; attainment or accomplishment: the achievement of one's object.

3. exploit, feat are terms for a noteworthy act. Achievement connotes final accomplishment of something noteworthy, after much effort and often in spite of obstacles and discouragements.

You can have:

Scientific

artistic

cultural, etc, achievements.

I think having a narrow minded view of what achievement stands for (which denotes success in most cases) doesn't help his case.

JohnnyLA

Achievement is a subjective concept. I don't think you really achieve anything in video games, nor do I think you achieve anything in sports...unless you happen to be some millionaire NFL/NBA/etc player.

I suppose professional gamers like professional athletes achieve something, but it's still a subjective concept.

Arklop

Well video games and most sports are games which are both satisfying. The actual satisfaction is in playing what ever you fin to be fun. As for discipline, thats mainly for training your body to excel that plays in to how well you play but not whether youac actually play. You have to remember that most sports are games.

Training to improve your body might be more satisfying as you actually get better is probably more satisfying than most of what you can accomplish in beating a videogame but it also probably more satisfying than winning most basketball/football/whatever games as well.

Sports and fitness training are different things.

SaanZ

Dude's totally right, but also totally obvious.

I mean duh!

Even I know that games aren't made of success;
clearly, games are made of win!

(Silly old-guy games are for kids!)

Florence-McSniffle

Last time I checked, people played games to have fun. Rogge is right.

whalleywhat

"You will never achieve in a video game."

OMG, Microsoft has _lied_ to us! The achievements, they mean nothing! Oh well, at least noone's jacking themselves full of steroids and hyper-oxygenated blood just so they can perform better. At least gamers limit it to caffiene and sugar. And they don't send their chauffers after the competition with baseball bats and such.

Purple Dave

@MrPsycohed:

Well, running 100m in under 10 seconds means you're healthy and able bodied. Likely have good lungs and your circulatory system is in good working order. Your legs can clearly handle your weight, and your ankles are functioning at a high level. These things will get you out of a burning building, for example. Or possibly catch a petty thief who stole your girl's purse. And so on.

Not sure what a "single credit run-through of Time Crisis" will get you, other than *potential* props from a pretty small (and hyper specific) gaming circle.

cello

I didn't know there was a competition.

Seriously, being an athlete is no more or less admirable, no more or less important to the Overall Standing of the Human Species than anything else.

So you can do the 100m in under ten seconds. I can run through Time Crisis on a single credit. Once done, does either thing matter, in the grand scheme? No. We haven't colonized Mars, we haven't cured cancer, we haven't opened the third eye of mankind to some cosmic universal truth.

Both en devours are frivolous. We do them because it makes us feel good. Your way of wasting time isn't any better than my way of wasting time.

You want to talk "achievement" and "success?" Unless your name is Ghandi or Hawking, GTFO.

MrPsycohed

I agree whit this fellow because I understand what hes saying!

You dont gain anything in life by achieving things in a game. In sports however you really gain health. If a game says you have become 2% stronger thats not the truth, but if your coach says so, you have...

When people start using Wii Fit as an argument for training i feel really sorry for them because they have no clue what training really is!

I play video games, and theres nothing wrong whit that, but I also use allot of time on physical training as well.
Also, on general people should know that a physical fit person will do better in reaction games (eg FPS) for there age than unfit person. So theres not like there are no good gaming benefits to staying fit....

Now get your fat asses to the gym and try to get to Level 10 on the treadmill. :)

JojoTheSlayer

*insert 360 joke here*

LuppyLuptonium

You guys are missing the point that he is trying to make IN BROKEN ENGLISH - he is just saying that doing something in real life is more of an accomplishment than doing it in a video game.

Get over it! He's right!

wild_world_girl

We must succeed for great success!

Pinhead

@cello:

Hehe, well said.

I mostly agree with what he's saying that sports require austerity and discipline. Getting tired is hard; endurance training and pushing your body to its limits most days of the week and eating healthy for years and years takes a really strong mind.(Granted I don't know how pro gamers live. I suppose it can get stressful at times when it gets competitive as it does)

Ultimately athletes have it harder. Since competitive sports are essentially games that require not only smarts and strategy but also a physical aspect to it.

As much as I enjoy competitive gaming, they really shouldn't be included in the Olympics.

thisbeatisbadass

@TheCakeIsALie: My thoughts exactly.

And you can't achieve much by being a close-minded douche. Some people said the television wouldn't be phenomenal. When will prudish adults learn... Oh wait, they can't--they're prudes.

Lainface

"The answer is achievement."

Isn't that why I have a 360?

TheCakeIsALie

@cello:

I dunno. I go to the gym every day, and it can be fun, but playing a video game (like halo 3 or cod4) and beating it on hardcore or legendary, is just as satisfying as finishing a 10 mile run. the only difference is the 10 mile run takes less time and i hurt physically at the end. remember, you use intelligence and hand eye coordination when you try to beat a game, and you are entertained for dozens of hours, but when you exercise you are hardly using your brain at all (except to release hormones) and there is no entertainment value in it.

Prometheusxy

i tend to agree with him until video gaming gets me laid like a Heisman trophy winner.

Prometheusxy

[dictionary.reference.com]

By definition, he fails.

UltimatePancakeSensation

@cello: Exactly how I feel except you summed it up better. ;D

NitrousO

I love gaming and always have but I think the guy is right. In terms of real meaningful achievement, I don't think anything I have ever done in videogames (nor any other gamer) would qualify. The developers could be considered to have achieved something in making many of the wonderful games we play but the actual people playing the game cant.

NitrousO

@spectheintro: I came here to say this. Thank you spectheintro.

Any "achievement" in the real world > any "achievement" in a virtual world

That said, games are great fun and a great way to kill time. Would I rather have a ripped, healthy body over a Halo 3 easter egg? HELL yes. Would I rather go to the gym instead of playing some games? Not really. It is what it is I guess.

cello

It depends on the game and your term of success.

Some games, he's 100% right. A better question is who is to say what games would be Olympic worthy even.

For some games, Pump it up for example, it requires Olympic like training to be at the highest levels.

Is there a place for games in the Olympics? Wait a generation or two, add a more physical element (thank you wii) and you might get a trial event. Given where gaming is at among some of the 'pro' leagues, I think this is a best case situation.

As for success, he's wrong. When a single game outmatches your ad revenue for one of your events, you're wrong on sucess.

huginn

Say whatever you want, but my earliest memory of achievement was clearing the first stage of Super Mario Bros.

Edge of Blade

This isn't game related so I'll be terse -
The IOC can go sit on [----------------------------]. You know, come to think of it, I shouldn't even say what I'm thinking on a free site like this one.

When you have a hard time finding a country (like North Korea!) where the torchbearer won't be mobbed by protestors, but continue anyway, then you're just a bunch of rich dicks marching on the backs of the peasants. It's a farce.

Sports are good, but the olympics and their sponsors can [edit edit] take a hike.

fuchikoma

i disagree in that i think you can achieve a high ability in SOME games. like DDR, Virta Fighter 5, some RTSes...

in the same way as you can achieve in chess.

Chess is a recognised sport by the International Olympic Committee.

I thinks it's just because games as a whole is such a cloud of ambiguousness. If you were to separate them it would be easy to see which ones aren't capable of measuring achievement & which were. coming down to difficulty, unpredictibility, depth & strategy.

string_theory

I mean, com'on, they have Curling in the olympic and not WoW? It's outrageous?

ssh83

Time to boycut the olympics until they add video game into the roster!!!

ssh83

I achieved weight loss while playing DDR. I lost 75 pounds in one year.

Sounds like achieving something to me.

Zero_Beat

1v1 or gtfo

UltraMagnus

I'm tired of achieving things. Video games are the one thing I can fail miserably at without any consequences.

Forkball

Hmm. Maybe if that's true, and all those kiddies are drawn to video games, instead, I can make the 2012 Olympic Fencing Team.
Somehow I don't see that as too likely, although I'll be damned if I'm not gonna try.

Nolano

No one can honestly argue that you can't make achievements in video games. The real contention is whether or not the achievements in video games are as substantial to those in sporting.

While I tend to agree with Cordise and Quen (and I am the same age as they are!) and believe that sporting achievements are better than video games for a variety of reasons, this is my opinion.

Whether one achievement is more substantial than another is subjective (as Gannoc and Tiber have implied). However, I do believe a stronger case can be made for achievement in sport as more useful, healthy, and beneficial. Sporting improves health, group interaction, (usually) teamwork, dedication, AND intelligence. The only category that you can make a stronger case for video games than sports are in mental effects (though I would also dispute this).

Rogge may have overstated his case in an impolitic way, but his basic point (as I interpret it) is largely correct.

LedRush

[img.metro.co.uk]

I_fit_in

@cordsie: You forgot all the juicing and drug-test evading.

CommentatorHatman

Technological advance has made physical prowess pointless.

So you're the greatest athlete of all time... My car still drives 5x as fast as you'll ever be able to run, and never gets tired.

Only Sexual Icons like Sharapova make spectating a sport worthwhile... delicious Sharapova...

[img][img.metro.co.uk]]

I_fit_in

@Gannoc: Couldn't have said it better.

"Achievement" and "Success" are entirely subjective. You can say that beating a game has no real merit, and I can say that throwing a stick farther than anyone else can has no real merit either. You can argue that that sports make people healthier. I can argue that games make people smarter. Games can improve strategy, teamwork, coordination, etc. Games are even used to train doctors to perform surgery.

A game itself may be entirely virtual, but it does bring real life results beyond just making people sedentary. I know he just wants to encourage more children to play sports, but acting insulting (perhaps unintentionally) towards something many people enjoy is not the way to get them to listen to him.

Tiber

@Chewbenator: Added to that any time a gamer is said to be an athlete it makes me cringe. The term Cyberathlete is close to a swear in my book.

Chewbenator

I agree with him, you really aren't going to acheive anything through a video game that you wouldn't through sports, and only the top half percent of gamers ever make a living out of it. Oh wait, only the top half percent of athletes do either. I am glad that I had played baseball, soccer, and hockey before I had bought my first video game.

Chewbenator

@cordsie: Hey, I'm 31 too. And I also mostly agree he's right.

Beating a one-player video game is nothing to do with 'real success'. Games are designed for you to beat them. When you beat a game, you haven't really achieved anything (like say if you wrote a novel or something) - it's on exactly the same level as completing a crossword puzzle. A fun personal challenge, nothing more.

Competitive multi-player games are much more like sports. I think they'll never attract the type of attention that sports do, probably more around the level of professional board/card games (chess, Go, poker). But conceptually they're not so different. I guess getting #1 worldwide on the online leaderboard for some single-player game would also be not so different from athletics...

I agree with others that running faster than anyone else in the world is not 'success' in any true sense; but it's going to be a lot more like success in the eyes of other people. Is it logically fair that physical training and genetics (athletics, football, etc) impresses people more than mental training (chess, competitive video games), not really no, but it's a fact and it's going to stay that way.

quen

Here is where I copy that gesture from "Daria" of moving my arm slightly but obviously not trying to hit the volleyball back.

Knukleur

Well, Olympic sports, which he represents are lately more about non-traceable steroids than austerity and discipline, I'm afraid.

a_lega

Edit: First sentence in third paragraph should be "This does not make gaming less worthwhile as a hobby."

spectheintro

Are we really so defensive of our hobbies that now we refuse to recognize them for what they are?

Games provide absolutely no lasting merit to the person who completes them. You don't walk away from a game that you've "mastered" with any meaningful accomplishments--you are not more physically fit, you are not healthier, you are not substantially more intelligent. You have simply mastered a small set of skills that will have absolutely no impact on the rest of your life. And it doesn't matter how difficult it was to master those set of skills; simply because something is difficult does not make it worthwhile. Games exist, fundamentally, to emulate the real world (or a fantasy world.) In fact, the only times a game succeeds in breaking away from emulation and wanders into creation or other "real" endeavors (i.e. not pretending to be doing something that one could feasibly do in a real or fantasy world) are when it strays away from the "gaming." (Note that I am only talking about the act of playing games--creating a game is an entirely different story.)

This does not make games less worthwhile. And if you read the article, he's not advocating watching the Olympics over playing video games. He's lamenting the fact that interest in sport, overall, has dropped off--and he even states that it's not just a medical thing. And he's right: we're not just getting heavier because of the food that we eat; our attitudes have shifted pretty dramatically as well. And this isn't a good thing. Everyone acts like sports are some way to get picked on and tormented and quite frankly it's bullshit--I was a fat nerd in elementary and middle school and I *loved* playing sports. I just happened to love playing video games and reading books more, but as I've grown, I've found that being physically active and having face-to-face interactions with my peers is much more meaningful and satisfying than gunning down someone in CoD 4. (Although that, too, is awesome.)

It's not always about competition and "being the best," and I can't fathom why so many posters here act as if every athlete conforms to the "asshole jock" stereotype. I have witnessed MUCH more virulent denigration and overall assholishness on Xbox Live and WoW than I have *ever* seen displayed on a sports field.

Games are what they are--games. I'll be the first to admit that not all sports are created equal. But *any* activity where I am interacting with the physical world and doing something *real* is inherently more meaningful than a game, where I'm only pretending to do so. The things that could make the game more meaningful--an intellectually (or emotionally) stimulating story, beautiful music, gorgeous art--are all things that are not intrinsic to gaming, but are instead tacked on to complement the gameplay.

There's nothing wrong or insulting about those statements. It sure as hell isn't going to make me stop gaming.

spectheintro

Blah, tell that to S. Korea and their "pro-gamers" running the Olympic Torch.

But seriously I could just as easily turn this around and tell the guy that sports and the pay that goes with it is just a pipe dream and that only the best of the best actually get those high paying endorsement deals or pro-league money. The majority of "sportsman" are just wasting their time that could have done more for themselves and the world by donating that time to help feed the hungry or learn a new trade. Otherwise these Olympic amateur sportsman depend on HANDOUTS AND DONATIONS from TAXPAYERS and that MONEY COULD GO TO MORE PRESSING NEEDS THAN TO FEED SOMEONES NEED FOR AN INFLATED EGO.

RPGr

I think this guy needs some slapping or some kind of internet raid.

Para

A lot of kids (males, in particular) turn to video games because they (believe?) they'll never be good at sports like their more popular jock classmates.

It's certainly been my case. ;_;

Frank

Also, didn't the Guinness Book of Records announce a videogame supplement? The Olympics as a concept have been around for THOUSANDS OF YEARS. (Not the modern ones, but you get my point). Videogames have been here for half a century. Give it time, just give it time.

DiBerns

"The answer is achievement. You will never achieve in a video game. It is not really success."
Someones never unlocked any acheivements in a 360 game!!

excel_excel

On the other hand, you won't have to worry about video gamers using illegal substances to get a little edge in "achieving." Also, video gamers won't club each other in the back of the knee to take out a competitor.

So if that's what it takes to "achieve," Mr. Rogge can keep it.

geekay3

Well, the health vs. lateral thinking merits of sports and videogames aside, let's draw an analogy, shall we? We'll look at this from the perspective of the "viewer," which is who he's addressing.

The Olympics: You watch the world's fastest, strongest, highest jumpers, what-have-you. Their physical prowess and the promise of glory, endorsement money and a really sweet post-closing party propel you to take up sports. You are healthier and there's a slim chance you'll become good enough to make a living at it. Profit. Your actual sports career lasts as long as your body hods out, which is to say until your early 40s at best.

The Gamer: You play a game that blows your mind. You want to make your own, dangit! This propels you to learn new skills, including improving your writing, learning coding, photoshop, texture work, sound design, what have you. Eventually, you make it onto a dev team. Years of hard work later, you're leading a creative or design department and bringing in six figures. Profit. The industry is volatile and every project is a multi-million dollar make or break gamble.

Well then, show me the difference, Mr. Let's Have Them in Beijing.

DiBerns

He's kinda right, actually.

It IS POSSIBLE to achieve in a game if it's educational or therapeutic for some reason, but the average game isn't real success unless you helped develop it.

YUYU

@Mister Adequate: Where the heck did the rest of my comment go? O_o

Ahem: Sport is, essentially, performing certain activities in a manner consistent with arbitrary rules. Which sounds a LOT like something else.

Mister Adequate

Sport is, essentially, performing certain activities in a manner consistent with arbitrary rules.

Mister Adequate

and no...i dont know what my previous comment means either....too much coffee methinks...

juscallmeweasel

Erm,

I was county golden gloves champ, ran for the county, swam for the county, played football and rugby for the most successful teams in the area...(im talking over 15 years ago)
now, my back, knees and a fair majority of my bones are f`ed up, all for nothing.

ill tell you what....i prefer gaming these days....

juscallmeweasel

@Captmonkey

Exactly. Of course. Ratings teh god.

Kempatsu

@CaptMonkey: I don't think he meant that watching the olympics will bring you success. I think he's trying to say if people get off their ass playing video games all day, maybe they would have some time for sports. By playing sports, you can acheive real success and benefits, such as good health and maybe even become professional if you work hard at it. Acheiving the highest score in a game, racing game, fighting game doesn't really improve any skills in real life. I mean all these times playing street fighter I haven't yet been able to throw a fireball.

karateka

Well I beg to differ. When I hear the wonderful sound my 360 makes and it's "Achievement Unlocked: 50G", I consider that a triumph within itself.

acez2087

So all the money those thousands of tournament winners receive in prizes means nothing? They got fake money as winnings?

There's a better chance of earning money in games than sports, hell you could even be a gold farmer and earn tons of money.

Kenny

Haha...xbox360 achievements means nothing. He's right, you don't play game to be successful in life. I mean how many professional gamers are there, what the hell are they good for? Advertising more games and hardware. Who buys games and hardware because another gamer says so? I buy hardware because of specs....so Fatal1ty...you can keep your motherboard. It seem that they are trying to make gaming into a sport, but it's not ever going to be sport. Sports would involve more physical activities. When I have a kid, he can play some game, but it's going to be certain time on the weekend only. Parents who don't regulate their kids gaming are the problem. These kids just sit there and play games all day and getting fat. They need physical activities also.

I rememeber as a kid I had just gotten an atari 2600. I was so excited, woke up one morning and played pacman. My dad got up to go to work and I was determined to get the highest score ever. It turns out that when you do, the game just resets itself and the score and you start all over. That sucked, but I was on the machine for at least 8 hours. My dad came back from work. When I saw him I knew I was in big trouble. He just walked passed me, I thought I had gotten away with it. But he just went and grabbed a belt and came back and whip the crap out of me. That tought me to never play games for 8 hours straight again.

karateka

Well, it's arguable that there's no "real" success in video games, but do you know where you can succeed even less? Watching the Olympics.

Honestly, I'm not sure what this guy's point is. "You can't succeed playing video games, so turn off the game, zone out on the couch and watch the Olympics!" what kind of sense does that make? The same thing that this guy is talking down to people about (not getting out there an achieving) is what fills his wallet. Let's all not tune in this year while we try to succeed elsewhere.

CaptMonkey

I just finished a game!... now I feel empty inside.

crummer

It's all just pissing into the wind really.

/nihilistrant

GregoriusH

I think you can achieve MORE from sports than from videogames. You don't have to be a olympic contender either. You get a substantial better level of health and fitness from many sports that you can carry thoughout your lifetime (and outwardly, people notice it too). A better sense of athleticism. Plus, there's the hot cheerleaders.

Let's see 360 do the "Achievement Unlocked - second base with debbie on the football field". Maybe in GTV 5.

sogmasta

He may not be overly respectful to games as a whole, but he has a point.

@ukslim: You got it down. Sports are too hard, too complicated and too unfun for many kids compared to games.

Sabre_Justice: Okay, no more long name.

The problem with sports people is, they think everyone is as obsessed with winning and recognition as they are. They'll make platitudes about 'it's the taking part that counts' but they don't mean it.

We need kids to be more active - because we have an obesity crisis - but traditional sports people are failing to address it because they just don't understand the people who don't want to strive to be winners. (That and most school sports teachers like to 'win' by picking out and coaching the winners in their school - the other kids are just a nuisance distraction).

And of course, the IOC is not about encouraging participation for fun and fitness. It's about recognising the winners, the cream of the crop.

ukslim

I haven't seen "Real" video games in Olympic success.

MightyHealthy

rockstar just achieved $500 million in sales, i'd say thats something

pandafresh

@PixelRambo:it really depends on the sport i guess, but i agree, watching the olympics isn't much more entertaining than watching the sunrise. beautiful and inspiring maybe, but not something you'd want to watch all day.

noliferuin (PSN)

he'll be interested when videogames tournaments can be staged in countries for political or financial benefit.

noliferuin (PSN)

@超外人: I agree. I am one of those fews who'd rather enjoy sports by participating rather than watching it.

PixelRambo

@boisv:
True, true. But to achieve something in sports it needs a lot of hard work... yes work! Games are made for entertainment and not for work/achievement. In the end this comparison is just pointless.

Garo

Even if you count every single sports player that's been heard of by the public it'd be a very small percentage of the people who've devoted their lives to playing pro sports.

There are only a few "pro gamers" that ever earned some degree of fame but I bet it'd factor out to a similar percentage.

LeChuck

The Olympics have not even started yet and already he is making up excuses on why people aren't going to watch.

I think it will have more to do with the protests a couple months ago than competing with other forms of entertainment.

I don't think you can really compare Olympic sports which in my opinion are boring to other sport leagues which are actually entertaining and focus more on the actual sport than backstories.

NullsRevenge

Ikaruga

Pombar

I'm not going to say that accomplishment in video games is meaningful, but let's be objective here - "I can throw this metal ball farther than this person!" and "Look how highly I'm scored when I swing from these hoops!" isn't exactly curing cancer.

Gannoc

Someone's obviously not a member of the Mile High Club in CoD 4.

Now THAT was an achievement!

tex1ntux

Hell, even if you aren't a success, you'll still be known and respected at some level. Tim Henman and Eddie the Eagle have won precisely shit-all and they're still well known and loved.

selfhatingotaku

Sorry, but he's right. I don't want to put gaming down, but there really is no way to "achieve" in video games in any sort of meaningful way. It is like arguing that one can "achieve" in reading comic books or playing AD&D. Gaming is just fun.

And Garo, it is indeed possible to achieve nothing in sports, but that is not the point. It's possible to achieve nothing in anything. The important thing is that it also IS possible to achieve something in sports.

As far as the "professional gamers" who win fabulous prizes, I purposely used the word "meaningful". You can also win great prizes in this world for eating 100 hot dogs and looking good in a wet T-shirt. That doesn't make the achievement meaningful or the activity intrinsically rewarding.

However, this guy did not say that playing video games had no value and neither do I. Books and movies also have great value, and no blueshoals, you can't achieve in books or movies either. That is why books and movies are also not a substitute for sports.

boisv

Well...They do get a lot of money for a medal, but thats probably besides the point. I say: to each his own.
If he looks at games from the same viewpoint as the established sports today, he is right. But for a normal person...

We all go cycling or running from time to time. We all play video games from time to time. Not everyone needs to be able to explain his/her action by 'achieving' something. What about fun?
I also think achievements are subjective. To each his own I guess.

marlblank

@anyone trying to put down athletics, yeah, all that constant training may not be very fun, but thats because it leads to something substatial. You get a gold, silver or bronze, and all that training has been worth it. You go down in official records for that y'know. Its knowledge that you are one of the best in the world at a particular discipline. If you're a big success you bcome famous and well known and important. People will listen to you and your opinions. You'll be heralded as a rolemodel, as someone to emulated.

If you're a success, you and your achievements are celebrated by the entire nation. Jeez, you'll probably get a parade in your honour. You are a spokesman and an ambasadour for your country. You can campaign for more sport in schools and more training facilities for aspiring athletes, and people will listen. Never mind the publicity deals and money for hawking products on TV...

If your the world champion at Halo or CS, what does that get you? A pat on the back from your fellow sweaty nerds and thats all. Not even your local newspaper would care.

And that comes from a fat, sweaty nerd.

selfhatingotaku

@Balance_In_Life: BAH, that comment to Tyheam was meant to say: Nothing at all to Mr. Jacques. Time for bed...

Balance_In_Life

Meh. The only thing being good at sports is good for is sport. Same with games, only thing being good at games is good for is games.

There are beneficial side effects to both, but that's beside the point.

Demaar

@Tyheam: Nothing at all Mr. Jacques

Who says a metal from the Olympics is really a success? This guy? Not trying to say that achievements on XBOX Live are equal to a gold or even qualifying for the Olympics but metals are nothing more then something you hang on your mantle and show off, like achievements. Now granted, if you win gold along with that comes millions in endorsements, fame, status, but in the end all you have to fall back on is that ONE metal. So yes in a way I can see what he is saying. That being said, I can look up on the internet all the former metal winners just like I can look up every last gaming tournament and figure out who won them as well.

People before I get bombed for this, I'm saying I actually kinda agree but also disagree with him. What equals success for Mr. Jacques? A metal, the amount of money made on a sporting goods contract, world records? The way I see it, it's all trivial. To a degree success like beauty can be summed up in a million different ways. Just because someone games doesn't mean they can't be a "success" in gaming. There are many pro gamers out there that have endorsements just like pro athletes, just Creative doesn't pay as much as Nike.

Balance_In_Life

Korean Starcraft pro leauge.
Nuff said

muscrat_01

what?

he hasn't heard of Xbox Live and Xbox 360?

i'm about to break 10000 in my achievements...

icepick314

Tell that to a guy like Johnathan Wendell, he seems to have achieved quite a bit sticking with video games. I see what he's saying, but it depends on your vision of "achievements" and knowledge of the activity.

FlashIV

@Tyheam: OH SNAP!

Grey Gecko

It's also possible to not achieve anything with sports.

Garo

I can totally agree that there's no success in videogames...

There's also no success in reading a book for fun, now is there?

Should we all stop reading things we enjoy? Yeah! Let's do that?

blueshoals

I dunno, I can agree with what he's getting at.

MikeTheSpike

It's a different kind of success, maybe. I imagine that the kind of endurance training you have to put yourself through in order to succeed at an Olympic level is not particularly fun in the way that perfecting your technique in a video game is. Let's face it, professional athletes put themselves through enormous physical and mental strain to get to the top of their fields and that sort of discipline really doesn't compare (or even bear comparison, really) with being good at a game.

He probably meant: being the best player in the world at Mario & Sonic is not quite the achievement that, say, beinh "fastest human on the planet" is.

freakout

Dude needs to define "achieve," because I can bet that any definition he comes up with that video games can't do, sports can't do either, at least without joining a serious team. And even that has plenty of parallels.

Moonshadow101

@Tyheam: I was thinking the same thing, but then again, I'd like to see Mister IOC President get the Mile High Achievement in CoD4.

Come on Mister IOC Prez, you play CoD4 and tell me getting THAT achievement isn't an accomplishment.

And for the record, no, I haven't gotten the Mile High Achievement yet.

Salen

I understand what he's trying to say - I mean, what does getting the medic's vampire gun in TF2 really mean out there in the real world, besides the fact that I'm better/have had more practice/cheated more than all the other TF2 players?
But by the very same token, what does getting the bronze at the 100m mean beyond the fact that you're better/have taken more steroids than most others? Sure, you get a shiny medal instead of a little ding and some popup text, but aside from the level of recognition what is there?
Ah, of course, physical fitness - and that's where Wii Sports and... Yoga Trainer come in ^^;;

20thCB

He needs some Wii Fit on his life...

Shiryu

@ D@Dappa: TRUE STORY ! good one...

i think u achieve so much from playing games, like what the hell is wrong with that guy ?! i learned English from final fantasy ! X_X !

and like let alone the whole horizon opening mind blowing amazing creative content you get to see...

i dunno i really feel like i need to punch em in the face, even if its in wii boxing

He EARNED it.

Contra maudi

Although I will say, spending your entire childhood and youth doing nothing but training 6 days a week for a fleeting shot at some silly medal to bring 'glory' to your country who will forget about all about you the second the closing ceremonies are over and that's even if you do win and no matter what the outcome you're resigned to a life of relative obscurity cause you haven't really trained for anything else and they don't exactly give out cereal box cover offers to each and every person who brings home some meaningless chunk of metal.... well... that just doesn't appeal to me either.

I'd rather play games.

cordsie

He's just pissed no one will go running with him anymore.

Lets get him Wii fit and cheer him up.

Dappa

All my achievements mean... nothing?!

Tyheam

Well, Jacques, if you're so sure what it ain't, how about telling us what it am?

frostcircus

Olympics, who else gets to compete in the Olympics besides the extreme few? Sports are not fun to me unless I compete or play with friends in them. Watching them tends to be a chore at times -.-

超外人

I've been playing games all my life. (I'm 31)

He's right.

Deal with it.

cordsie

"You'll never achieve in videogames".

He's obviously only got a PS3.

Indietendo64

Wow. You could also say you never achieve in sport, if you don't achieve in video games.

Aprocalypse

"Kids are attracted to visual, interactive forms of communication. It's not going to be easy for sport to counter that... " because sport's level of interaction and communication is stuck at "I pummel you", "Who has the ball?", "I hit the ball", "I run with the ball", "I put the ball in the hole".

spacepirateiago