@Yeux de nouilles:

Not necessarily. Some companies do business in person still. Not every company in the yellow pages has a website for instance.

You guys act like it's the easiest thing in the world to get a patent, but I assure you it isn't. Not only does it cost you a ton of money, it requires a lot of paperwork and "proof" of potential usage. Now considering they have over 12 patents in question here, I don't think they're just a bunch of guys in a basement

LittleBigPlaneteer

These lawsuits are idiotic. It seems like it's becoming a trend that companies are patenting ideas and plan to do nothing with them but sit and wait for someone to supposedly "infringe" on them so that they can take the party to court.

DPB

Meh, just print some more money.

Arnold Rimmer's Garden Strimmer

i feel the need to break this out...

[www.vgcats.com]

bigman88zz

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Then all that could be inferred is that they're some guys that set up shop in a basement and only made up concepts with no intention of ever releasing a product.

Yeux de nouilles

I dunno. I think a patent should be declared null and void if the person who filed it does nothing with it. It's all well and good if you want to protect an idea, but if you're doing nothing with it and someone, who didn't use your patent, but simply had a similar idea, actually runs with the ball, I don't see how that should give anyone the right to sue for it.

It's a whole other story if Anascape Lrd. marketed its technology out or whatever. I just don't see how this works.

dunetiger : one of the naerds

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I think every browser but Internet Explorer has either a built in adblocker or a decent plugin. Even Safari has one, and it just gives Kotaku the nice silver look without any actual ads.

And if there are any other Mac users out there, I'd hope they're not using Firefox.

Yeux de nouilles

@Vyse24:

*sigh*The suit wasn't just against rumble, but against analog sticks and their sensors.

LittleBigPlaneteer

Why the Wavebird? That didn't have any rumble in it.

Vyse24

I don't see this setting them back all too much, to be completely honest.

Perdew

@Yeux de nouilles:

This may surprise you but there are companies out there who don't have a website.

Shocking I know :O

LittleBigPlaneteer

People who see ads, do yourself a favor and get adblock plus.

I fully expect that you're using Firefox

LittleBigPlaneteer

@frickinharlem3: It's obviously the "3D controller part" (ie thumbsticks), and not the "vibration" part.

Luke Plunkett

patent law needs an overhaul...all these lawsuits are freaking lame

OmegaKulu

@Inhert: I don't even think the company exists, because Google has no evidence of its existence aside from the lawsuits it brought up.

@T6Spades: Or complete geniuses because they never have to work another day in their lives.

Yeux de nouilles

The Wavebird and Classic Controller don't have vibration, so what do they have to do with this copyright? And, if this infringement is legitimate, how did it only cause $21 million worth of damages?

frickinharlem3

Raindrop in the ocean, really. After all, the DS "PRINTS MONEY!"

ShaggE

@JauntyHat: my thoughs exactly

Grey Gecko

My mistake is not an Adware... I saw the main page of kotaku and saw the coors ad.

Video

""3D controller with vibration" [...] applies to Nintendo's GameCube, Wavebird and Classic controllers"

I don't understand - the WaveBird and Classic Controllers don't have vibration...

TheUncleBob

how in the hell does a company get issued a patent without a physical product...

it's like someone saying, oh, this is a flying car. we can't do it but this how we would theoretically go about doing it.

epionx111

@Cheebahawk: That is an Adware... get rid of it...

Video

Man I might as well go into my garage and create a bunch of controllers that I assume will appear in the near future. Then sue the living pants off of whoever makes anything similar to my own crap creations.

That'd make me a total douche right?

That's what you are Anascape Ltd. Whoever or whatever the fuck you are, you're total douches.

T6Spades

I'm gonna patent life so I can get all the monies in the world.

HoxtonHero

Objection! I've always wanted to do that.

AUAnonymous

scratch that, now I'm seeing it >.>;

M. Lobo

@Cheebahawk: you probably got an Adware problem, might want to look into it... If your scanner doesn't turn anything up you might want to try a different one...

M. Lobo

So why did this Anascape have patents for controllers? Does the company even have anything to do with video games?

Inhert

21mil sounds like a drop in the bucket for them, but heh~ guess it's more of "face" than the "money"

iRloading

Can't they find that kind of money underneath the couch

xpoomasterx

@Cheebahawk: Like I said in another post, dont look at me. I'd have at least sold out to a full-strength beer.

Luke Plunkett

@OneManFreakShow:

It's the analog sensors among other things

LittleBigPlaneteer

That's the second time MS has dodged a bullet on a controller patent. They got that savvy blue-haired lawyer on their side, not Gil, don't they?

I'd like to see what this patent troll came up with; boomerang-shaped controller with a control stick, or something equally vague, right?

boopadoo

Fuckers! Still, it s a mere pittance of what they have made this year.

symeon6

I'm going to go out on a limb and say it was the triggers, though. The GameCube controllers and Classic Controllers have the same L and R buttons.

OneManFreakShow

Best news I've heard all night, and all day so far. And it's only 1:10 am.

Sailorcancer

For some reason, when I read this, I said "Oh no..." out loud...

They make that in two hours. Don't know why they should be worried.

OneManFreakShow

On something completely unrelated..

Why are my eyes being raped by COORS LIGHT DRINK IT NOW advertising? This an error on Kotaku's part, an error on my browser's part, or has Kotaku sold its soul to beer?

Cheebahawk

I wonder how much Microsoft paid up front? I doubt it was near the 21 million.

LittleBigPlaneteer

What exactly was the patent for? Twin analogue sticks? The design ? What?

josh51

Hmm so what was the lawsuit about exactly? I know its not rumble because Immersion didn't sue nintendo because Nintendo's rumble patent pre dates the immersion patent.

Does it have something to do with the faux analog sticks?

CCCombobreaker

This whole case is horse shit.

Marios_shadow

Oh man, how will they cope?

I expect them to file for bankruptcy any minute...

Cheebahawk

I guess that's what they get for hiring a capcom lawyer. And a pretty suhitty one at that. AND A PROSECUTOR NO-LESS. They couldn't find Phoenix as a defense attorney? Or at least Edgeworth as a Prosecutor?

JauntyHat

@dunetiger : one of the naerds:
Silly, how are people going to squat on ideas otherwise?

Channing

@g8or8de: Maybe, but wouldn't you also expect a company as big as Nintendo to do their patent homework before releasing a product?

Luke Plunkett

@LittleBigPlaneteer: I say getting 12 patents and waiting it out to earn 21 million is a good investment... if you're a cunning crook.

g8or8de

Two words "Danny Crane"

Rockwallaby

I don't know much about this lawsuit or the patent and I don't care to read up, but the fact that Nintendo had a "3D controller with vibration" long before 2000 leads me to say WTF BS.

bonnebonne

I know Nintendo is making a bucket load of money, but isn't it unfair that some company gets a patent for something they weren't even gonna make, and then sue a company that does?

g8or8de

@DPB: My thoughts exactly.

ZombiePuppy

Why wasn't Sony sued? I don't understand exactly what the patent covers, and really, all the last gen systems had pretty similar controllers.

StevenRafael

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Ah okay. Thanks for clearin that up.

Vyse24

Couldn't Nintendo appeal?

joshuamcc

Sounds like Nintendo needs to relax with an ice cold coors lite!

But yeah. Thats what they get for hiring such a lousy attorney. Like JauntyHat said, if they couldn't get Phoenix, they should have at least asked Edgey to defend em.

Komrade_Kayce

@Sailorcancer:
Why the hell is this the "best news" you've heard all day? Do you like companies getting sued by patent squatters (which I'm assuming this Anascape is, since I can't find any information about them or what they do)? Or do you just hate Nintendo and/or Microsoft?
Seeing as how this is a gaming blog, and not a political blog, I'm going to assume the latter.

Would it have still been great news if Sony was sued? I personally don't think so. But then again, I don't have some venomous hatred for any one game company (... except, maybe, EA... MAYBE).

BPMζ

@Luke Plunkett: I honestly doubt companies are sifting through every single patent issued in every single country and comparing them to their own product. I mean, if companies had to constantly sort through hundreds of patents just to create a prototype of something, development cycles would be huge... just to prevent these sorts of snafus. I mean, does the patent even make any sense to you?

Ampillion = That Man.

Atari should have sued them, they made I believe the first ever wireless controller. I don't see why they're complaining so much.

MetallixO0001

I have a patent on patent squatting, all these guys are boned

I also have a patent on witty comments I just choose not to use them.

Rockwallaby

@StevenRafael: Sony actually was sued some years ago by another company called Immersion for a similar thing involving the vibrating mechanisms in the Dualshock, they settled by paying the company a part, some say that's why they initially went with the Sixaxis and threw vibration out the window.
$21 million is sure a lot of money, but to put it in perspective, it's less than a buck for each Wii sold, so I don't think it'll hurt Nintendo even if they don't lower it.

chemical_eng_mx

God I hate patent trolls.

@Luke Plunkett: - "I'd have at least sold out to a full-strength beer."

That is comforting to know believe it or not.

dead_red_eyes

@Sailorcancer: Gee, that doesn't make you sound like a spiteful ass or anything. Not at all. I mean, obviously lawsuits are totally hilarious and fun for everybody.

Now, seriously... if this is the work of some stupid 'Hey, I thought up some shit in my bedroom in the 90's, ran down to the Patent Office, and am waiting for the day for some unsuspecting company to use something vaguely similar enough to my idea to get EZ Bux', where is that anything to support? Why would we want to jump for joy in something so petty, when in all honesty, the patent looks like it could describe about fifty different controller type devices.

God forbid next generation when we develop new controllers again, or even further into the future when controllers become much more motion sensitive or new forms of control are devised. Retinal tracking? Brain-wave sensors? Altered Reality displays? Nope, sorry, not worth looking into, some douchebag's already perched on some sort of patent and is just waiting to cash in.

Ampillion = That Man.

uh...wasn't the Cube controller already revealed before this patent was filed? And it's not like this company ever introduced said product.

The key word is perpendicular in the patent. You can't prove that the 2 sticks on the GameCube controller are perpendicular (The Classic controller part is what gets me since that's clearly parallel). With the Cube/Wavebird controller, you can't say they're perpendicular, but you can say they're parallel from certain angles.

@Garo: yup

KingBroly

Wait, this is about Rumble? What about the N64 controller? The analog sticks? What about the N64 and Nunchuck, then? The analog triggers? How come the Dreamcast wasn't part of this?

And how come it took seven years for this thing to pop up? There should be a time limit between the time the product is made commercial and the time a case is filed.

Xagest

@Luke Plunkett:

Who does the majority of wonderful photoshopping for Kotaku, if you don't mind me asking? Do you guys kinda do it individually for each of your own topics, or is one of you kind of like the designated 'shopper?

Komrade_Kayce

Everytime something like this happens I think: US patent laws suck

Garo

DOES NOBODY READ WHAT I WRITE? :)

@joshuamcc: Yes, they're appealing, it's the last line of the post.

"Nintendo have said only that they plan to appeal"

And to everyone saying "but Wavebird didn't rumble", come on, there's a link in the middle of the post taking you straight to the patent itself.

Luke Plunkett

I guess they should have hired a different attorney, one with hair...

Yes, I am aware other people beat me to it by nearly 2 hours, but it still had to be done.

Pezdispenser

@Komrade_Kayce:
Maybe this is the guy who made the patent and he's getting 21M. If someone payed me 21M to be an patent squatter, my life definitely starts looking up.

@Ampillion = That Man.:
Yeah, this is one big problem I have with patents. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to throw every patent out the window and destroy all the patent offices, but for a company to go through every single relevent patent before trying to create their own controller (or pay off whoever's patent they're using) would take an extrodinary amount of time and effort. The R&D costs would soar and then it'd just be passed on to the consumer OR some companies just wouldn't bother with it.

Channing

@Rockwallaby: And as fresh as a mountain stream? Sign me up.

Ampillion = That Man.

I am going to bet that no one here bothered to even read the link that Luke provided, before jumping on conclusions.

JonC

@Komrade_Kayce: I could really go a Coors Lite myself, A frost brewed taste that's cold as the Rockies

Rockwallaby

@Sailorcancer:

Stop being so anti Nintendo you Sony loving dickhead. Nobody with half a brain cheered when Sony lost the patent on its rumble feature, they just yelled at Sony for lying and calling it 'last gen tech'.

Seriously. Do you people not realize that everyone can see everything you've posted in the last while? It makes it STUPIDLY easy to pick out you fanboys when

a) You only post positive things in the topics of one company
b) When you do post in topics about other companies, its 99 percent of the time something negative/slamming

I dont know how the hell you got a star.

Komrade_Kayce

I wish patents required that the product have an intended function or use. It is extremely difficult to decipher what the patent is trying to say unless you know what it is going to be used for.

Velops

@Komrade_Kayce: Bit of both. This one's mine.

Luke Plunkett

@LittleBigPlaneteer: The ad is part of the front page's skin. ABP has no effect :(

user_21938

@Sailorcancer:You are an idiot. Shut up, idiot.

Foxstar Sixtail

I preface this by saying I don't think ALL Nintendo Fanboys were celebrating at the immersion thing, nor do I think ALL Nintendo fans think THIS suit wasn't warrented, but of those that celebrated the immersion victory over Sony, how many still feel the same way now that it's Nintendo?

bobtheduck

@user_21938:

Try looking at it with ABP turned off for the page, you'll see plenty more ads than just that one in the logo :)

LittleBigPlaneteer

@bobtheduck:
Immersion is a pretty reputable company that has made controllers in the past. They had a right to defend that patent because they are in the business of doing so.

This company, however, sounds like the patent squatting type. Before this, did you ever hear about Anascape, Ltd?

This should be us getting pissed at patent squatters who have done nothing; this is nothing like Immersion vs. Sony.

Done here.

Drake Lake

Huh just read the patent a bit more, can see why Nintendo lost.

It was filed only a year before the GC came out (not exactly squating), and I think it has more to do with the sensor design/implementation for the 3D stick on the gc controler, I dismantled my controller for fun, and the sensor pad + board for the 3D stick looks very very similar to what is described in the patent an almost an exact mirror of one of the design drawings in the patent. (The multiple pressure sensitive sensor sheet connected to a circuit board, I know a bit of EE).

They may have been patent squatters or maybe not, but the patent is very very detailed and specific on the implementation of the 3D sensor pad for the control stick, which obvious the courts must have decided were too similar to what was in the GC controller.

I'm on the fence on this one (it does look like a direct rip-off of the design, but could be coincidental)... and I highly doubt nintendo with its buckets of cash would hire a crap and cheap lawyer to defend itself.

I don't think an appeal would do them much good (and would probably be a mistake), in the patent world Anascape do have a valid case.

charsuipau

@Inhert: They don't seem to have any kind of internet presence at all. If you google them, all you find is articles about the lawsuit. It seems they're a patent troll. All they produce is lawsuits.

Fuck patents.

L_K_M

"A 3D controller with vibration" *laughs* That's tangible at best. I'd have to break it to 'Anascape Ltd' they've already been beaten to the punch, by about everybody.

The Patent system has, and always will be corrupt. This enabled Alexander Graham Bell steal the claim to the invention of the telephone from Elisha Gray.

humongous_mouse

@bobtheduck:
I personally thought the suit with Immersion was dumb. But what was more annoying was how Sony continued to fight it, instead of settling like Microsoft. This is what lead to the rumble-less Sixaxis, not it being "last-gen tech."

BPMζ

Make it mandatory to have a working prototype for a patent and it will solve a lot of problems.

Garo

Hah. That's funny.

Sony didn't get sued because their controller was parallel and not perpendicular like Nintendo's GC/Wave bird and MS's Xbox and 360 controllers.

Whyspir

@charsuipau: I've got two issues with that though. One is that, from my point of view anyway (I'm no gaming industry insider, so I've got no clue on how long hardware R&D rolls on.) a year just isn't long enough. If the GC was due to hit in a year or less from when they filed, my gut would tell me that they'd hopefully already have a working mock up of their controller prototypes, they'd already be working on supply chains to mass produce this stuff, and they'd of already been using these to test their hardware and software in house by then. So, unless someone at Nintendo was really running behind schedule, or there was some demand at the last second to change something, I don't see how they could've directly or intentionally infringed on this patent, regardless of similarities.

Secondly, I'm assuming this is for the yellow 'C' stick? I'm just curious how this stacks up to the PS1/PS2's stick setup, as those controllers were around long prior to this. So I'm wondering if Nintendo/Microsoft were actually borrowing more from Sony's design, and this group decided to snake in and create a patent for something they 'took' from Sony. Or, hell, perhaps they developed Sony's sticks. If they're similar anyway.

@Garo: Agreed. You should have to have some sort of working proof or at least documented proof of a work-in-progress of something before you can claim any rights to it. In all honesty, having a 14,000 word essay that describes things just vaguely enough to cover your ass in no way should constitute ownership of anything that I can't reach out and grab, look at, and use. Or apply a use for.

Ampillion = That Man.

@charsuipau: Bless you, sir, for taking the time to read the patent before commenting. Makes a pleasant change.

Luke Plunkett

So... assuming it's the analogue sticks.... somehow... what is the difference between the N64 controller/PS1 Dual Shock controller and the controllers affected in this patent?

It seems to me that there is plenty of prior art here that could easily invalidate a patent that was introduced the year before the gamecube was brought to the market.

Duoae

@Luke Plunkett:
Well I think congratulations are in order.
You and all other kotaku writers do a brilliant job writing, but also with the fantastic photoshopping.

One Way Mule

Objection!!!

skyhawk21

ha, and i remember when Immersion sued Sony, everyone just lol'd and said Sony brought it on emselves. Same thing happens to Nintendo and everyone gets uppity. funny!

pandafresh

They are going to appeal. It will be reduced 5-8 million or so.

21 million is still 21 million. Iwata will not be happy. Furor of a Japanese man, he will kill someone.

Fyren

Oh god. $21 million? Iwata shits that every morning before breakfast. This news is complete horseshit.

Kempatsu

Platform? It sounds kind of like the controller is some kind of wired statue thing.
How the heck can Nintendo lose?

Angryrider

$21 million? For that? That's just stupid. However, it's not going to put a dent in Nintendo's money supply.

KM91

That pic can only make me think of Austin Powers..."Judo Chop!"

ChimDeathmonkey

Though I think the use of patent might sometimes seems exaggerated (as if no one can make anything anymore), the illustrations provided with the patent are detailed enough to give a clear understanding of the analog mechanism, piece by piece. There is 64 pages of detailed layout of the mechanisms. I haven't read the descriptions of the system, but it's detailed enough that it doesn't feel vague. If you just read the text on the front page, it's very vague and leads to believe that it concerns every analogue stick controller ever made. The blueprint isn't so vague though.

Padder

[docs.justia.com]

For those confused about the full jist of the lawsuit or are just generally interested in the time line of events, here's the best resource available.

RyanDG

What if this company make believe they invented something that Nintendo actually did, and then they filed a patent before Nintendo did, on something they didn't made themselves.

Its almost like a company is doing something really illegal and trying to pass off as legal and the Judge actually buys their fake story. Personally I think we need more tech knowing Judges, and not clueless ones.

Solarman

@epionx111: Thats probably why no one has released a flying car yet. They would have to give all their profits to these leeches. Better run out and patent 'sex with robot prostitute' before they come up with that, too.

GOLD5

Omg!!! I feel so sorry for Nintendo. I really like their products with the exception of the Wii which I struggle to find a good game outside of No More Heroes and House of the Dead 2 & 3 Returns. I absolutely love the DS for which I proudly own 24 games on. Why the gamecube stuff? Why? What a bitch he was. Guess he needs dat dough!

Jnkzm4

Um what? Nintendo had the N64 controller which had an analog stick and a vibration pack. And that was before 2000.

Fucking patent trolls. Did this company even build any sort of controller?

Zarian

$21 Million? That's pocket change.
Pocket change I wish I had. =/

AssassinTRIP

@Cheebahawk: It's a gawker thing. Jalopnik got it worse, though.

Grive

Sounds like they just a group of greedy morons who got lucky... Probably by bribing the judge.
But, seriously, a "3D controller with vibration"? What kind of crap is that? They are essentially trying to claim the rights to nearly every analog control made from the sounds of it.
I get the feeling that Nintendo is going to turn this around on them and this no-name company is going to get legally skull-f***ed even if $21 million is small change for them.

ChrowX

I hope Miyamoto gets furious and creates the most hardcore game ever.

phinehas

I don't get it. I see the classic controller as a revision of the original SNES controller; I think that is why they called it classic.

kcb79

21 Million. . . : thinks what he could do with 21 million : . . .Somehow I have a feeling Nintendo will get along okay.

AndrewG009

It probably would've been cheaper to just make Anascape disappear than to actually go to court and then try to appeal.

Also, I have Firefox and Adblock Plus, but I'm still seeing the ads. Everything I've tried to get rid of them doesn't work. I don't even drink beer, so at the least this is an insulting annoyance.

VioletArrows

The patent laws are retarded. It needs to be amended. I'm not totally sure about the details of this case, but I'm inclined to think it's a company that patents a theoretical product then waits to sue any company that makes a product resembling it.

kirstpo

You are all speaking as if this were something new. There's a long-established term for such companies as this: Patent trolls. There are many companies out there that write up patents, don't make even the most perfunctory attempt to realize the technologies described in the patent, sit on them until some company comes along and violates their copyright - which is incredibly easy to do; it's much too time-consuming and onerous to search through all the millions of patents to determine whether or not you are infringing - and then sue them for all they're worth. It's despicable.

I wouldn't be surprised really if this company by one surreptitious action or another acquired some information about the functionality of the controller before it was released and just wrote up a patent describing it so they could sue Nintendo later when it was.

gareki.ga.haikyo.ni