Not sure what everyone is arguing over.Sony has sold more PS3 than MS has sold 360s in Europe,even though they launched 16 months earlier.That is what Reeves is saying. We'll see if MS comes out with something.I bet that they do not on this one.

enewtabie

Playstation has always been the more popular brand over here, so it's no surprise Sony's outselling Microsoft. But does this really matter as long as most games get ported to both consoles? I don't think so, and as long as neither Sony nor Microsoft are paying me money to write fanboyish comments on the internet I don't plan to do it by myself.

Al Bino

@JorgieX: fanboy, eh? sorry to burst your bubble, but the Playstation 2 is the King of ALL systems.

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

@DigiMish: The difference is that A) Nintendo sells their hardware at a profit, which is very different from Sony and Microsoft, and B) most of the games that sell on the Wii are Nintendo-made, which means the money goes straight into their pocket. Just look at any financial results to see that there's nothing wrong with Nintendo's business this generation.

Stormrider

@Milky_Jo: No matter how much Sony is winning in Europe, the 360 is far from failing. A failure would have been what we see in Japan, not about 5 million consoles sold. Plus, it's all regional. In northern Europe the 360 does somewhat better (think US ratio), in the mediterranean areas it's more like Japan. Sony is winning in Europe (and probably the US to come as well), but Microsoft only failed in one region and that's Japan.

The Whaleman

What kills me is the faux-international concern of console fanboys in the U.S.

I talk to people here about international politics or foreign film, and they run away screaming, but give them a blogpost about the console preferences of rural Bulgaria and they are like "They are so wise! I love Bulgarians' opinions on life."

It's quite strange.

And I DO love Bulgarians, despite their preferring the Jaguar and 3DO.

lionkitten

@Rebel Without Applause: 'So if I downgrade to PSN i'll be playing a lot more gamers from Europe... hmmm... i'll pass.'

Or, conversely, you could keep paying $50 a year to be subject to racist and homophobic insults from gung-ho anti-Politically Correct teenagers. Your call.

Oh, and speaking as a European, I'd like you to stay on XBL too.

@B-Tizo: Now that, was 'ZING'.

Bergerac

@Marasai: That why the Wii is doing so well? PA-ZING!

ShirtGuyDom

@Rebel Without Applause: Say what? How does people online matter more than actual sales? Unless said people online are spending money, of course.

StocDred

@Rebel Without Applause: Yeah, because everyone always plays while the console is online. Its not like everyone uses their console online, the attach rates for internet/console are nowhere near 100%.

John-irl

@Deflicted: sigh.

Hence the joke. He said that Sony sold more PS3's than Xbox did, rather than....

Oh never mind >.<

lionkitten

@derFeef: I have no idea what you mean????

The 360's potential will be maxed in the next year or so with the PS3 only beginning to reach it's potential. I guarantee microsoft is looking ahead to the NEXT console which will force people to go out and purchase another shatastic piece of equipment. I expect the PS3 to be around for quite a few years and will eventually have higher numbers sold worldwide than the 360.

chrisgriner

Great job Sony.

Now can I get a goddamned online GTA4 game with more than 6 or 8 people in it consistently? Pretty please?

Puck

@Eddy666:

Funny, cause game scores, and the constant calls from sony fanboys for features the 360 has had since launch seem to indicate somehting very different.

Maybe it shows europeans are sheep who willing to believe anything as long as it is fashionable enough, regardless of how truthful itactually is.

But nahh, what are the chances of that happening again?

Marasai

I'm not surprised by this news. It seems that the 360 does the best in North America and does alright everywhere else except for Japan where it's been selling so poorly it's not even funny.

The PS3 brand is just stronger worldwide despite Sony having lost former playstation exclusive titles like GTA and Devil May Cry.

The last time I checked, the Wii's official software attach was 5.3 as of last month which was higher than PS3's (4.6) but less than the 360's (7.5).

Killer7

I would love to see the whole hardware sales be thrown out the window and just get the numbers of how many gamers are logging into their console while connected online. Because in the end that is all that matters, who is actually playing what, not what gets sold.

Rebel Without Applause

@Spiderbait: Just kidding. I'm just jealous. Until now I could afford every single gaming system I liked so far. But with the hilarious price of the PS3 here in Germany, I have to stick to my 360. Even though it's my 4th maschine so far.

Why is it always Sony OR MS. Does nobody enjoy best of both worlds?

R3nko

The market over here is a lot more popular with the playstation brand. The 360 is still doing great, loads of people have then in the UK. I only know one person with a PS3 and about 10 with a 360.

sargemat

@rrghy: I agree. Look on the back of your 360, it'll say "made in China" or "Made in Taiwan". All the technology in the box of all 3 were developed all over the place with no specific country of origin. The only real difference is where the executives live. MS mostly in the US, Sony and Wii mostly in Japan.

kingmanic

@maniacmayhem: Around 30 million people worldwide is everyone? What the fuck is wrong with today's comments? Is it stupid fanboy day or something? I guess I missed the meeting!

slomo788

Dude looks like he's holding in a fart ! LOL!

cybereality

@maniacmayhem: European sales to date. If everyone already had an Xbox then the 360 would still be ahead.

Fallible

@Doomstalk:I hope you live in Europe, because otherwise that is an incredibly closed-minded comment.

John-irl

@maniacmayhem: out sold not outselling. Slight difference :-p. They've been out selling 360 in europe for a bit. Hence they were just outsold the 360.

wait.. I'm lost now... did I get that right?!

Rabidsquirrel

@CanaryWundaboy:

Nice job insulting around 700,000,000 people all at once...

I think that no matter which way you spin this, it's good news for Sony. So that's now Europe Japan that the 360 is failing in. Oh well, there's always next time...

Milky_Jo

@badasscat: You're just talking to a wall dude. Get ready for an outrageously fanboy comment.

slomo788

@[Dextr]:
Wow, that made me LMAO

@Rebel Without Applause:
ZING!

Just out of curiosity: what's the SingStar attach rate for the PS3? I'm sure everyone in Europe buys that game, I know all my EU/NZ/AU friends have it. Its insane.

Also, I wonder what the blu ray attach rate is? "Hey, buy a PS3 and some movies to get some use out of your console!" - I kid, I kid.

Congrats for selling more than Xbox. But, they're still taking a loss on the console, whereas MS is being profitable right now in the games division. It also doesn't hurt to see the attach rate hover around 7 or 8 games per 360 either.

This is good for everyone!

B-Tizo

@Rebel Without Applause: Yep. You have to pay for one.

Anyway, my PSN friends list seems to work out just fine. Oh, you mean 'but Fallible, let us say you get a message during your gameplay - you cannot read it without quitting your game.' Well, I'd quit my game, read the message and go back into my game.

Truth be told, I can wait for in-game XMB. It isn't that big of a deal; I have a phone.

Fallible

@BlackDove: NPD is US only. VG chartz is a random guess then back filled with numbers acquired off of other sources. Try sources other then these for non US. VG chartz is interesting but hardly definitive.

kingmanic

360 still has ways to go in terms of global adoption. Microsoft should be happy with their current results. After all, the playstation brand has been around for twice as long as xbox.

Roller

Ugh! Of course they're outselling Xbox 360 now. It's because everyone already owns an Xbox 360.

maniacmayhem

@R3nko: An extremely pricey paperweight.

Spiderbait

@karateka: Hm, if it's true that there are more quality PS3 games than 360 games, then shouldn't the PS3 be selling more games per console than the 360, despite the lower install base?

And another thing is, I really think people put way too much credit in Metacritic scores than they deserve. People conveniently forget that sources like Play Magazine are factored into these things. Personally, I think finding one or two review sources that you trust is a much more effective way of getting your game purchase advice rather than aggregating anyone with an opinion into a single number that tells you fuck all about the game.

But I'm getting a bit off topic here.

Stormrider

@JorgieX: Man, your comment is kind of cute.

DarkCode

@Stormrider: go trying telling this "attach rate" thing to Nintendo... because last time I checked, their software attach rate is like 1.18... but their hardware, we all know the hardware part :)

DigiMish

@mescalineeyes: If it weren't for an Englishman you wouldn't be brushing your teeth. Does anybody do their research before dropping down tired jokes?

Bergerac

@JorgieX: I'm not convinced the 360 has outsold the PS3 worldwide at this point.

Sony's got 2 out of the 3 major territories. They're absolutely trouncing the 360 in Japan. The 360, meanwhile, is *not* trouncing the PS3 in the one territory it's winning.

I know somebody's gonna point to vgchartz or something, which is a site run by a guy who has admitted on his own forums to pulling numbers out of his ass, but I have yet to see a real compilation of official worldwide totals that are up to date. I doubt such a document even exists in the public domain, since you're talking about collating bits of data from a variety of different services, some of whom don't make that data available for free (and make not releasing it to the public part of their licensing terms).

In the absence of real hard numbers, though, the news lately seems to at least suggest that the 360 either has been overtaken or is about to be overtaken by the PS3 worldwide. How can the 360 stay ahead when it's behind on installed base in 2 of 3 territories, is being trounced in ongoing sales in those territories and is running essentially even in the third territory?

And yes, I do consider this the "real" race this generation, and increasingly so. I remember a few years back, the original Atari Flashback sold more units than the PlayStation 2 one Christmas. Does that mean we should have counted it the "winner" of the console war that year? The Wii is increasingly something other than a current-gen game console.

badasscat

I... don't give a shit about the number of consoles sold. What matters is games. PS3 has few good games (though that is changing), 360 has many.

mphz

@Stormrider: People learn to walk one step at a time, first hardware, then software will come. Earlier posts shows more percentage of ps3 titles are quality games than the 360...follow by the wii in shovelware.

karateka

@mescalineeyes: Dude, are you familiar with the concept of attach rate? It's number of games sold per console. That's not the same as install base.

The point is, if Sony is coming out and saying this now, then the PS3 probably just recently surpassed it for the region. So until either the install base grows far past the 360's, or their software sales go way up, the 360 is still selling more games, which means more licensing fees for Microsoft than Sony.

Stormrider

What's PS3?

R3nko

@JorgieX: You are hilarious. It's touching how much you're in love with your 360.

slomo788

@Fallible:Like to single me out, huh? That's cute. If you actually had gaming friends you would realize how different the 2 are.

Rebel Without Applause

@emag: I was thinking more along the lines of house wives and Nintendo fan boys... but you know I think you've got something least with the PS3.. Must be why my Wii just sits there and my PS3 gets used. Your right with the movie watchers, and media system thing. :-p

Rabidsquirrel

@Chris3000: Considering the 360 is still outselling the PS3 on a monthly basis in America and has a several million head start, I'm going with somewhere between 2 years and never.

Stormrider

@CanaryWundaboy: UKers? Taste?
seen your teeth yet recently? eaten some british food?
;)

mescalineeyes

@megaStryke: I think the smiley means he's kidding.

Suuuuuuuuure you've changed! =P Still waiting for those epic flames.

Anyway, I live in Portugal, which is Europe, for those who are unaware, and over here, people are Sony crazy. EVERYONE has a PS2, and everyone plans to get a PS3. Same with games such as Pro Evo, and Singstar. These are quite popular picks in Europe. Sony has huge cred over here, so this isn't a surprise.

Ashurahori

@rrghy: In todays world it shouldnt matter, EVERYTHING is made in China and stock-holders from all over the world own stock in companies all over the world.

cduran

Good for Sony. Though I myself will just wait for the end of the year, August at the least, to compare sales. Now, if they cut prices over there they can sell even more.

@JorgieX: 360 is the king of all systems? You should've phrased that one differently...PS2 is still reigning supreme, last gen or not.

Magic Emperor Anima

@Stormrider: oh and guess how they sell more software? By having a broader install base of their hardware, sherlock!

mescalineeyes

You've got to understand, no matter what console it is, no matter who it's made by, it's a 'Playstation' over in Europe. They love getting shafted.

Only us UKers have taste.

CanaryWundaboy

David looks like he's cooking up a hot pan of smarmy for us.

I'm sorry, I like the ps3, but I don't give any allegiance to sony or anything.

azurai

@lionkitten:

Translation? I would imagine he would have been speaking english , as it was at Playstation Day London.

Deflicted

@Rabidsquirrel: That's right. The Wii's going after gamers, whereas the others are going after HD movie watchers. ;)

emag

Not much surprising for Sonyland. Alas it seems 360 is only doing well in countries involved in the Irak war.

Fabrice

It was a matter of time PS3 would outsell 360 in Europe. This day was coming. Congrats to Sony and the PlayStation brand. Things are turning around since the poor launch.

DigitalHero

Until they start catching up in software sales, this is a lot less significant than they'd like you to believe. Licensing fees are the main source of revenue for console makers (especially for Sony and Microsoft, who unlike Nintendo sell their systems at a per-unit loss), so if the attach rate for the 360 stays much higher than the PS3's, as it is now, the difference in hardware numbers is less important than it appears.

Stormrider

The back and forth MS and Sony is getting old. The question is not how many systems they sell since we all know that even if they sold more PS3's in EU the world wide total is what counts and we all know who has sold more systems WORLD WIDE and that's XBOX. But good for them anyways. The real issue is how many games are being bought for the respective system and if multi port games are included which port sells the most and on these issues we also know that the 360 is out selling in it's own right. So in the short turn maybe they sold more but in the grand scale of numbers the 360 s still king of all systems and yes even the Wii can't touch software sales on the global scale.

JorgieX

Go PS3! I wonder when we'll see some solid figures in North America about how much long it will take for PS3 to over take 360.

Chris3000

@Rebel Without Applause: Couldn't resist could you? I don't blame you, I'd upgrade to a pay-service if it were actually noticeably better, but it isn't. So I'll pass.

Fallible

Kotaku love to be a trouble maker. And when we start to fight you guys start banning us. You are as much to blame as anyone. Besides, if we were't so passionate about what we beleive in, you wouldn't have any readers and you would suck and fade into nothing. Luckily banning just causes people to create new accounts :)

karateka

"I am delighted to be able announce today that we have sold more PlayStation 3s throughout Europe than Xbox 360 - even though they launched sixteen months before PS3."

Sony sold more PS3's than Xbox 360? I didn't the Xbox 360 team was even SELLING PS3's.

Must be translation....

lionkitten

@rrghy: You're absolutely onto something here. Just look at any entry on Japanese sales figures, where the 360 is bombing, and you'll find one or two buffoons going on and on about how Japan hates all things Western -- which is about as idiotic a thing as one could say.

kingclip

@Doomstalk:

The European market is actually worth quite a bit more than the Japanese market now, and has been for some time. In terms of importance, Japan is at the bottom of the pile.

Red_Rob

@karasu is my homeboy: Sooooo... that "next gen" consoles can't sell more than "last gen" consoles is supposed to make everyone feel better?

megaStryke

@ [Dextr]:

Zing!

globones

@pd771:

PD = Peter Dille?

Everard

How likely is it that he's speaking solely about mainland Europe and not taking the UK and Ireland into consideration?

Red_Rob

@pb00: Wii is selling the most, but right now we're discussing "next gen" consoles.

;)

karasu is my homeboy

@pd771: Thanks for the compliment. But the Wii and 360 are quality just as much (sans the hardware faults of Microsoft's box). All consoles have their share of great games.

It just happens so that the PS franchise has my most favourite ones :)

Candlejack

@Balance_In_Life (PSN): Okay, misunterstood that :) Kind of clear, everyones going for blu-ray too now I think

derFeef

If there's any spinning on the figures or claims made by Reeves here, we'll find out sooner than later. MS will sure jump in with their own figures.

SG79

So if I downgrade to PSN i'll be playing a lot more gamers from Europe... hmmm... i'll pass.

Rebel Without Applause

Jesus-Christ monkey balls!

slomo788

Yeah Europe is that sonyer u just need to give them a console with almost no games, more expensive than everywhere, and u make all them happy (Me has a PS3 and Im european of course D'OH!)

BeImont

Hey all, just curious about one thing.

If you're a fanboy of any platform, did it matter to you that it was, like, say, an American product as compared to a foreign product?

Or was it not even a consideration?

Just curious to see if nationalism even factored in your fanboyism, or whether it doesn't matter in today's globalized world.

rrghy

@pb00: Yeah.. but its not really going after the same demographic is it?!

Rabidsquirrel

It's definitely not a good thing for Microsoft, but it's not really that bad either. There's a reason that PAL territories have been perennially shafted by the video game industry, and that's because they just aren't as strategically important as the US and Japan. As long as Microsoft can maintain something close to parity in the European territory, they'll probably be in fine shape.

Doomstalk

I SMELL BLOOD!

Mr. Fap☆Fap!

@derFeef: He is saying total sales. Not current sales. The fact that even though Xbox had an 16 month head start, PS3 still managed to outsell them in Europe for total consoles.

Balance_In_Life (PSN)

What? There's a world outside of America?

Deflicted

Good job Sony... still hate David Reeves though.

Balance_In_Life (PSN)

What do people expect - 360 owners buying more 360´s? I cant unterstand such things....

derFeef

Great... I guess this means I can stop hoping for a price cut in Scandinavia and an announcement about DualShock 3 controllers. Sony is making such a killing without catering for Europe that they don't need to bother :/

(I mean... somebody need to give people a comment to viciously attack/cling on to...)

The Whaleman

@TOWER_JUNKIE: Only numbers I could find said the 360 sold 2 million in 2006 and 1.9 million in 07. So I'd guess it'd be fair to estimate another .5 million in the first quarter of 08 for a total of about 4.5 million vs sony's 5?

glibby

Wii still wins

pb00

Yah, I'll wait for them NPD numbers or VGCharts or whatever first.

BlackDove

I knew I was Euro-classy all along.

jarjarwang

But but but...

Cell technology is pointless cause it's harder to port PC games! :-(

Kanik

@Eddy666: great relative to the 360 in Japan... isn't so great.

droopy

And that's with Sony screwing us Europeans on price.

We do like our tough love.

Meldy

Europe hasn't been relevant since 1776.

[Dextr]

@TOWER_JUNKIE: not by much if they've just announced it...
that aside well played sony!

nolifedopestar (PSN: noliferuin)

So PS3 is doing great in japan and now Europe?

Eddy666

Awesome. Europeans know quality when they see it.

pd771

"... viciously savage each other in the comments section following this news.
is there any other reason for Kotaku's existence?

OldManGaming

In 5 minutes we are going to get an announcement from Microsoft saying that it is not true..., we need actual numbers.

CYG

It's like...you know what the Kommenters are like here, Fahey! You can read our minds...

So let me start - I'm sure Sony has been waiting a LOOOONG time to say this! Neeners! BWAHAHAHAHA!

;)

Spoony Bard

My question is how much they outsold them by.

TOWER_JUNKIE

@[Dextr]:

Europe is not relevant?

You, my friend, are coming across as fairly ignorant.

Ban hammer please.

sascha23

@slomo788:

Your reply was just as idiotic and you only proved just how stupid little bloggers can be with your name calling.

maniacmayhem

@Eddy666: PS3 is doing good all-around everywhere. In fact, it's weakest in Japan. The EU and US sales have been really good and regularly beating out 360.

sascha23

@WarlordPayne:

"I really wanted Microsoft to suffer for releasing a rushed, faulty product but from how things are going it looks like there's no reason for them not to do it again next time."

You mean besides the billion-dollar warranty extension?

Everard

I wish I could find a 60gb.

I also wish the PS3 community would stop using puns. ("xbot" - the lamest phrase, ever)

*sigh* :-(

Kanik

@fuchikoma: Accept the UK mind you... they deserved the more units.. or something like that.

Rabidsquirrel

Don't get TOO excited just yet... we have a report coming in from MS, and...

This just in! The overtaking was actually caused by a 360 shortage all across Europe starting shortly after the PS3 launched!

fuchikoma

Holy shit, this happened way before they, and even myself had predicted.

It's unfortunate that people here have to be such trolls over this. If you guys can't stand good Sony news (which is rare as it is) then don't comment.

LittleBigPlaneteer

@maniacmayhem: Hey dumbass. Who made the comment about the console user base already saturated? You did. Don't try to flip it on me now. You made a stupid comment, I pointed it out. Nothing to do with badassry. PS2 sold around 130 mils, so there's still LOTS of space for console sellers.

slomo788

And the dick-waving contest resumes unabated.

Asper

Funny how Sony says numbers dont matter until they are ahead, lol.

Good for Europe. Do they have PS3 games over there? because I am pretty sure MGS isn't out yet, which leaves like 3 games worth buying.

cmonty06

didn't some sony rep. said that the PS3 will outsell the 360 by late summer? it's Spring. it's still spring right? anyone? DAMNIT, my brain cells are dying.

Grimmjow Jeagerjaques

@Bergerac: There's a reason you hear from twats on XBL, it's because people actually use it and a headset comes with the console as standard. I'm not going to slag off PSN, it's just started. But once it takes off, I will be back to slag it off for all the cunts telling me to go have a cup of tea and brush my teeth.

Tob3z

@Killer7: Those attach rates are only for the US. I don't know global rates for the 360 and PS3, but the Wii's global rate is 6.07, I believe. Also, just looking at the weekly European charts, the order across Europe from highest to lowest can't possibly be anything other than Wii -> 360 -> PS3.

megaStryke

@Grimmjow Jeagerjaques: I don't know about that. What about the Super Nintendo?

Stormrider

@slomo788:

Wait are you saying that there's only 30 million people world wide?
Or is that the gamers who are now buying the PS3's already own a 360 because they finally have the extra bread to purchase one, which i was sarcasticaly stating.

Oooooh, I love blogs/forums where everyone get's on their super high defense horse and start pretending they're bad asses!

maniacmayhem

Evidently europeans are smart enough to avoid poorly made electronics, I wish americans were.

I really wanted Microsoft to suffer for releasing a rushed, faulty product but from how things are going it looks like there's no reason for them not to do it again next time.

WarlordPayne

@Marasai:That says a lot about 360 owners. PS3 has a lot of features 360 could use, but instead of asking for them, you guys just try to shit on them: BD, free online, open online, better built, less proprietary stuff. I think what I hate most about 360 (despite the hardware failures) is actually its fanbase.

slomo788

@John-irl: @StocDred:

Pretty much to track how many gamers are actually playing games, both consoles can be connected and monitored to who is playing what, right?

For example, I want to know how many individual gamers are playing GTAIV on the 360 over the PS3. And it would also show how many PS3s are being sold only for Blu-ray. I'm sure it's a lot more than you think. As opposed to the 360 which gets sold mainly on the game content.

I gather it can all go back to attach rate as well.

Rebel Without Applause

@Abriael: Uhm, sony had several price drops too.

Your entire argument became moot when you failed to acknowledge the ps3 has seen drops also.

ManjiKengo

@Leobebes: Because that cable has to run through the middle of several rooms to reach my console?

If the Nintendo DS can have WiFi the console I buy damn sure better have connectivity out of the box.

Fallible

@Leobebes: Hmmm. I must have the best wifi connection in the world. It went out once about four months ago -- that was because the dog kicked out the cable. I use my microwave a lot too. Don't act like because Sony has it built in and Microsoft does it poorly makes it a stupid feature. Take cross-game communication. I don't have a 360, but I don't crap on that feature, and i totally wish PS3 had it. See how easy that is? To not hate the other console simply because it's not the one you chose to purchase? It's totally easy.

kingclip

@Stormrider: This is quite a success for sony.
Microsoft tried to pull the stunt of the prices reduction, while Sony didn't even need to. The result is simple. Sony wins, Microsoft looses. the 360 is still ahead worldwide, due to the headstart, but it's just a matter of time until it finishes as a distant third in the console war. Their brand is simply the weakest of the three (having been the last to enter the market), and their politics are often abysmal (and the fact that they screwed up their early adopters is gonna reflect heavily in the next generation of consoles).

I find it funny to see the usual microsoft fanboys trying to minimize what was something to be expected.

And by the way, i hate to have to repeat this everytime, but the argument about games attach rate is meaningless in the way microsoft fanboys always put it. The 360 has an attach rate of 7, while the PS3 has an attach rate of 3.4
This means that the average 360 owner has 2.05 times the games the average PS3 user. But this is since the consoles launch. Wich isn't a proper term of comparison:
The 360 has been launched 28 months ago, while the PS3 has been launched 16 months ago in the US and in Japan, and only 13 months ago in europe, which is it's strongest market (let's simply make an average, 14.5 months).

let's divide the attach rate of the 360 by 28 and we get that the average 360 user buys 0.25 games a month (or one game every 4 months), in comparison the average PS3 user buys 0.235 games a month (or one game every 4,2 months), making for an absolutely minimal difference. Definately Much smaller than what the Microsoft PRs and fanboys try to showoff as an enormous difference in terms of attach rate.
Suck it up boys, people use PS3s to play just as much as the 360. I know it's so hard to accept for some of the most hardcore Microsoft fanboys, but that's how things are, like it or not.

Abriael

@TheAngryHeretic: when we started waving our cockss around saying ours is bigger, better and our sack has less wrinkles.

Basically it's the same thing. It doesn't really mean anything except for what you use it for.

Better sex isn't ALWAYS attributed to a bigger penis.

I seriously hope you guys get my meaning.

ManjiKengo

@TheAngryHeretic: we are compelled to justify our purchases that we come to secretly doubt.

[Dextr]

@Leobebes:
Why do you care?

Garo

@LittleBigPlaneteer: On top of what? The fanboy pile of excrement? So sales figures don't mean anything really for other forms of culture like music and movies, but they do for the culture of games? It just makes no sense to me.

kingclip

As gamers, when did we start to care which console sold how many units? As a kind playing on my Atari, NES, and Sega Genesis, I, and most of my friends, we did not care if the NES outsold the Genesis.

We just cared about great games. If you are in the gaming industry, I can see you caring, but as a consumer of video games, why do we care so much?

TheAngryHeretic

@Leobebes: I played through Wifi all year long in my dorm room. Wifi is a convenience that's why, and, believe it or not, as long as you have a decent connection, it's VERY reliable for online gaming.

slomo788

@ManjiKengo: Lol, ain't going to argue with that.

slomo788

Why do Sony fanboys make such a big deal about wifi? If you are going to game online constantly why would anyone want to game online with a friggin signal rather through a hard cable?

If anyone here takes online gaming seriously, they wouldn't be doing it through a wireless connection. I don't care how good the wifi connection claims to be, I am pretty sure I don't want to worry about anyone turning on a microwave oven while I am playing a competitive match.

Leobebes

@slomo788: The same could be said of all rel...errr game systems.

Biggest thing I hate about the 360, ps3 and wii is its fanbase.

ManjiKengo

@Rebel Without Applause: You ask for a figure, you get one, you complain about the figure, insult him for finding the figure, and then make him find another figure...

Were you on the debate team by any chance? Usually when you want to make a point, and you know - rub their face in it, you have to find your own figures and statistics instead of throwing mean names around at people.

Fallible

@rrghy: all products are foreign products. You think that 360 is american made? lol.

@JorgieX: I thought the real issue is how many systems have been returned defective world wide vs how many have been sold world wide. Add in your own capital letters for clarity. I dont think the issue is how many games were sold world wide on which platform has anything to do with hardware sales because well, we are discussing hardware sales and not games sales. I really dont understand the "it has more good games arguement". I know it's a matter of personal opinion on what a good game is but uh... I honestly cant think of anything the 360 has in terms of quality games that cant be found else where (other than Halo /shrug). Gears, and Mass Effect, both on PC. I guess Dead Rising (fuck. Otis.) and um Forza? Everything else that is worth a damned is multiplatform (CoD4, GTA4, Rainbow 6 Vegas). So in this day and age I dont see the "lol sony has leik no gamez" arguement as valid. I own both machines and yea, I originally had Cod4 on the 360 to play with my buds who didnth ave ps3's yet. Course then my 360 wants to start malfunctioning again so I switched to playing on the ps3. Havnt missed my 360 since. Of course, I bought my ps3 originally just for a blu ray player, Metal Gear, and Gran Turismo (so I guess I'm biased?). I just dont understand the appeal of a faulty piece of hardware which to me doesnt have any more value over another more reliable unit. I realy dont understand how people keep buying multiple 360s after theirs fails (out of warranty) and not switch to something else. I have a friend who was on his 7th 360 until he said "fuck it" and sold it for a Nintendo DS. I woulda said "fuck it" at the first death. Question.
Is the install base really what MS claims it is based on units sold? How many of those are people who purchased a replacement 360 because their other was no longer operations (such as one of my friends did). I guess in the end Ms dont care as long as people are buying them and they get to report huge sales numbers. I just wanna know how many of those units sold actually still power on.

Derigor

@valkyriex: maybe you should look up the criteria for "recession" before you make any more mistakes. Look up sarcasm while you are at it.

[Dextr]

@B-Tizo: Freaky, I bought a PS3 about 7 weeks back pretty much solely as a BR player and the only game I've bought is Singstar. Here in the UK my friends would consider it impolite if didn't have a copy.

I do wonder how many people were like me and bought it mostly as a BR player. Could explain the low attach rates.

tellute

@karateka:
I thought we all dismissed of that graph as being inaccurate?

marlblank

@[Dextr]:

yep, that's why the economy in Europe is stronger than ever with the Euro kicking the American dollar's a$$, while the US is in a deep recession right now.

valkyriex

Only took a year and a half on a continent twice as large.

AplusBminus

INb4

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT XBOX 360 SUCKS!!!!

TRIPLE IS OUTSELLING IT WORLD WIDE, HAS BETTER CONSOLE QA, DESPITE HAVING INFERIOR GAMES.

HEY GUYS GUESS WHAT, PS3 SUCKS!!!!!

XBOX 360 HAS SLIGHTLY BETTER GAMES AND INFERIOR HARDWARE. LOLOL RROD.

There. I said it. Now there is no need for the rest of the commenter's to point out this shit.
-------------------------------------
Mike, I'm getting sick of the flamebait you guys post here.

You're my ATL brotha. You know better than that.

ManjiKengo

@Dr. Steve Brule: Aww hurt your feelings hon? How about proving what I said about 360 owners was wrong instead of looking like a clown?

slomo788

Good news for Europe -- competition == good.

However, forgive me if I express some doubt about any numbers that come from Sony. I wouldn't believe them if they said the sky was blue.

wheezo

@chrisgriner:
"he 360's potential will be maxed in the next year or so with the PS3 only beginning to reach it's potential."

You state this as fact, yet up until this point nothing everything that has been released on the 360 has contradicted your statement. Let me guess you believe in the tooth fairy still right?

Leobebes

Sony....who fucking cares? You happen to have the best bang-for-the-buck Blu-Ray player on the market. People aren't buying your system for games. Every one of my friends that owns a PS3 ONLY uses it as a DVD player.

KillerBee

@slomo788: "I think what I hate most about 360 [is its fanbase]."

You'll grow out of it. Perhaps you and LittleBigPlaneteer can go halfsies on a drum of Prozac?

Dr. Steve Brule

@risingphoenix: I think he meant that the 360 has outsold the PS3 every month but two since release.

mind in rewind

@sascha23: He's wrong, but calling for him to be banned for that comment is just as stupid. I would also point out that the PS3 only took the top spot in the US for 2 months after being crushed in December so saying that it is "regularly" outselling the 360 in the U.S. is inaccurate. This is a big step for them to actually lead in Europe though.

Spartan1308

@kingclip:

Just because gaming systems have been ranked by how well they sell does not mean that's how it works in other things. In sports, your stats matter the most, for movies it's usually how many awards you get, and so forth.

Don't act like it was gamers that started this pissing contest either. Statistically speaking the console that sells more than the others, usually is the one that is dominant for that generation. Obviously a lot of people give a shit about whether their beloved console is on top or not, so clearly they'll be looking at the best indicator of that, and that's sales figures.

LittleBigPlaneteer

I just don't give a fuck anymore.

I'm sick of sony and microsofts shit.

I'm sick of nintendo too."Oh we helped make an entire generation a bunch of fat fucks. Lets say we're sorry and make wiifit. Then charge them up the ass for it too."

ManjiKengo

@sascha23: Why do research when I got nerds like you to do it for me? So, where exactly are these GTA attach rates set in stone? How many gamers are online for each console?

Rebel Without Applause

@kingclip: least the beatles still have the most singles.... Marah Carry (not sure how to actually spell her name) needs to stop music so this figure doesn't get ruined. *crys*

Rabidsquirrel

So for everyone obsessed with sales figures, I'm guessing that the best movie ever is Titanic, and the Backstreet Boys are one of the top musical acts of all time.

kingclip

@Rebel Without Applause: Just an fyi: GTA4 has much better attach rate on PS3 worldwide. Please do a little research.

The blu-ray is a bonus that will drive the PS3 to being the dominant system (between the two), but the games are the main reasons 90% of consumers purchase a PS3.

This is coming from someone who owns both. Just going by attach rate on GTA4 to rebuttle. :)

sascha23

@Stormrider: By monthly you mean the 360 is outselling the PS3 every 3rd month.

risingphoenix

@sascha23: Or, you know, it was a joke. I guess the only way to covey sarcasm here is to close your tag?

But seriously, I think you'd be surprised as to the American ignorance of the outside world. Even Europe. Not to say American's are alone on that platform, but, honestly, I have known far too many people here that dismiss the impact of the European market. Be it film or games or whatever. And that is basically the skewed mentality. "Europe hasn't mattered in the US since we kicked their sorry butts! Guffaw!"

[Dextr]

@sascha23: What the hell is a "Europe"?

/couldn't resist
//ashamed of my country

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

@Tob3z: You can always tell said twats to go for a jog and put down the fries. Have you heard we're all fatasses? We totally are.

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

@WarlordPayne: Americans like cheap things. However, the fact that the PS3 is regulaly outselling the 360 (which is $50 less), gives me hope that we're not completely doomed here.

sascha23

@Stormrider: 360 is sold at a profit as well.

mind in rewind

@ManjiKengo: Well, 'recent' is relative. I believe they said that they started making 360s at a profit a couple of months ago. I consider that to be recent, since the console's been out for over two years now.

Jeez, pretty soon we'll probably have these companies announcing their plans for the next hardware generation. How weird is that?

Stormrider

Nothing like some sales numbers to bring out the sad individuals who get a kick out of getting into vicious and self rightous typing arguments with other sad individuals over which is better: Computer A or Computer B.

Guess what kids? - they both play video games, often times the same ones! God forbid someone likes something different than you! It's absolutely vital that they not only know they fucked up, but why you had it right all along because, you know, you're just such a smarter person. News flash: No normal person gives a fuck which console you think is better or why. Please, if only for basic civility, let it go.

ca$h

@Stormrider: Uh, they've been selling at a profit for a little while now. It's not a recent thing.

The tech within the xbox360 is old as fuck. Hell, the tech within the psthree is old as fuck. I still don't know why it's costing so much to manufacture.

ManjiKengo

@Abriael: I'm just pointing out that David Reeves is spinning this a bit. I don't have any invested interest in the fate of multi-billion dollar corporations like Sony or Microsoft. By making this into a 'console war' where somebody has to win and somebody has to lose, you're the only one who's a fanboy here. Call me what you like, I really don't care. I'll end up owning all three consoles eventually, since I plan to buy a PS3 as soon as LittleBigPlanet comes out, or before if Valkyrie of the Battlefield or Disgaea 3 (I'm a SRPG nerd) come out before it.

Stormrider

@ManjiKengo:
before the the most recent 360 price drop operation (limited to europe), both consoles had one price drop, so they were on even terms.

The most recent 360 price drop, that wasn't mirrored by Sony and that, according to microsoft executives, would have wiped the competition from the gtable failed, quite miserably. Not that it wasn't expectable, since the problem of the 360 in europe has NEVER been price, but the lack of brand penetration, which can't by solved by simply dropping the price.

Also, wheter you accept or not this argument, the one about attach rate, is steel armored, you can argue it as much as you like, but the fact stands. Ps3 users, in average, use their console to play just as much as 360 users. The percentage of people using it only as a blu-ray player is marginal at best.

Total attach rate is meaningless, attach rate versus time has meaning, and is almost the same.

Abriael

@Leobebes:Because it much of Europe especially, the houses/apartments aren't designed to run easy hard wire access to all rooms of the place. More so than in America, where it can also be a problem. Wireless is used a lot more, and it's also a lot better/faster/stronger/more stable.

That's definitely one of the areas MS f'ed up on worldwide. Not that big of a problem in U.S. so they thought they could let it slide. Oops.

lionkitten

@TOWER_JUNKIE: "It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile. Winning is winning". Just ask Nintendo.

Papa Midnight

Also im Canadian and lets be honest north america is n important gaming market but when game makers make games they go on hardware sales and none of this attach rate cr@p i keep hearing? Gamers buy games, everyone that own a wii or knows anobody who owns a wii knows the sports package is the gold mine. Most people like my friends wife will not be being Resident Evil for it since they bought it for the sports package. What wii needs to do is start releasing those types of games like boxing etc.. and people will continue to buy it.

gnudna

@mind in rewind: It is now, but I believe that's a pretty recent development. They still have two years of the console being sold at a loss to make up for, not to mention the billion-dollar warranty extension.

@risingphoenix: In the US? As far as I remember, the PS3 has outsold the 360 in North America two months total (January and February of this year), and not by hugely significant margins either.

Stormrider

@Fallible: Uh, he gave me a figure? I don't see it. Do you want to get me the numbers? I already called you a name, so that part is done!

Rebel Without Applause

>by maniacmayhem at 01:06 PM
>Reply
>Ugh! Of course they're outselling Xbox 360 >now. It's because everyone already owns an >Xbox 360.

Yes but the problem is they claim to have outsold it? That means that it sold more than the current xbox 360 owners. Simple math really.

PS: these articles always stir up cr@P.

gnudna

@[Dextr]: Sarcasm and text don't always mesh well. Thanks for clarifying. I agree that Europe is stronger than it's ever been when it comes to gaming awareness.

sascha23

@I_Hate_This_Place: That's a good theory about it honestly.

ManjiKengo

@TheAngryHeretic:
Well,some people did care even back then. Probably not as adamantly as they do now, but I've heard of fanboy bickering during those days. Plus, the internet was not widely available as it is now, so arguments and information were not so easily available. I personally think it became prevelant after many fans of the Dreamcast saw it die due to what looked like a lack of sales. It seems that maybe sub-consciously most fanboys are afraid of their console of choice being a "dreamcast" and dying if they don't fight hard enough to make sure potential customers buy their favorite machine. Just a guess.

I_Hate_This_Place

@zoesch: Well, in the UK at least, the 360 Core/Arcade retails for less than the Wii, so the price advantage is out the window. Sure, the Core is not the most popular SKU, but it's there and should be a wonderful bullet point for Microsoft's marketing.

megaStryke

@rrghy: Yeah I'm totally nationalistic about faceless chineses and taiwanese companies :/

zoesch

@maniacmayhem: If everyone already owned a 360 then wouldn't the best the PS3 could do is tie in total sales??? Or maybe not everyone owns a 360 and MORE people now own a PS3? hmmmmm. . .

Lachoy

@Derigor: Umm, I think it's to show developers that console "a" sells more games than console "b", so hopefully deveopers will make more games for "a" than "b". Your analogy fails. Yes, you spend the same amount of time, but scenario 2 puts more money into developers pockets, hence the importance of attach rate.

I_Hate_This_Place

Who cares, 360 and PS3 are BOTH great systems. Can we just calm the hell down now.

stupidfanboy

@KaneRobot: ah shit, I forgot to quote the duder that was trying to say that Attach rates were some magic indicator of which system is used for gaming and which system is used for other purposes (multimedia, porn, paper weight, whatever).

You know, because that's what comment I was reading when I typed that.

Derigor

@Derigor: The console itself is what he's referring to.

It's already outdated as far as tech is concerned, save for the blu-ray.

You're referring to the fact the ps2 still has games coming out for it.

ManjiKengo

@Abriael:You just produced the best comment of this whole thread.

slomo788

@emag: Yeah, because all the hardcore games are on the Wii. Oh wait..

Another thing - it doesn't really matter how much more Sony have sold, does it? I mean for chrissakes, MS had a sixteen-month lead.

el bryanto

@megaStryke: I think had it been feasible for Microsoft or Sony to produce their consoles at the same price point as the Wii then yes, you'd see a much closer race.

Nintendo knew what they were doing when they ducktaped them two gamecubes together.

zoesch

@Stormrider: yea 10 years is impossible... the PS2 has lasted what? This is it's 8th year now? Still going?

I agree fuck 10 year life cycles, Lets get a new console every 6 months when ATI/nVidia dump out new video cards so I can keep buying new shit like I do with my PC! That's totally more probable and possible!

Derigor

@OldManGaming: wait wait, what do you mean? Left me open for what?

ManjiKengo

@Derigor: attach rates are stupid

No, attach rates are where money is made.

KaneRobot

@Stormrider: I already own all three consoles (well, actually i own more than 25, but that's another story). But if I have to compare the policies of Microsoft with Sony's, I definately can't help but feel a tad of satisfaction to see Sony gaining a stronger position. Why?
Two reasons:
1: As a 360 early adopter, the sons of Gates had the great idea of screwing me over. They sold me a potentially defective console that they didn't intentionally test enough just to gain an headstart on the competition. On top of that, since they were too much in an hurry, my console doesn't even have an HDMI cable, and i'm stuck on VGA, that seriously kills colors on screen. Thank you Microsoft, oh thank you so much.
2: If sony ended up in third, Microsoft would win by too much, having deleted the disadvantage of the xbox against the PS2 and more (in the end Nintendo is in a world of it's own), putting them in the same position as they are with windws and allowing them to spew out bad products while counting on their solid userbase.
If microsoft ends up in third, they can still keep Sony on their toes with the fact that they will have still eroded a good part of the advantage the PS2 had over the original Xbox. Strong competition makes for a better market.
In the end, according to what I know of the market, Sony winning against Microsoft is a more balanced ending for this generation, because isn't TOO much of a change since the last, but still the numbers have gotten much nearer. And balance is good for the market, all companies are on their toes, and as such are forced to give us better products to try and dogfight for our favor.

Abriael

Attach rates are stupid.

If I buy one game (Cod4) for my ps3 and play it 3 hours a day, every day I am still using my console to play 3 hours a day, every day.

If I buy 3 games for my PS3, and play each one of them for an hour every day I'm still playing 3 hours a day, every day.

I know there are alot of people out there who buy a console for only one damned game and play only one damned game. So why are Attach rates a good indicator if people are using their system to play games or watch movies? Yea... they arnt.

Derigor

@OldManGaming: Dude, I'm getting sick of this crap. It's pointless. Gamers are gamers for games, not fucking blind stupid corporate loyalty. The second you stop paying sony or microsoft or nintendo they wouldn't hesitate to say fuck off.

It's a wonder why I haven't quit coming here all together but flame bait draws me in like a moth to a flame also. I should make it my quest in life to fight fanboys.

----------------------------

@Stormrider:

Yup. it sure is "wonderful".

ManjiKengo

@Rebel Without Applause: I did give you figures in the update and I gave you the location to look it up. Hope you don't feel like to much of a "nerd" because you have to educate yourself on those numbers.

Fortunately, I can balance my nerdy needs and social needs just fine. Name-calling is the lowest common denominator.

sascha23

@TheAngryHeretic: To touch on that topic, I don't think I care if one sells more than the other, but with age came my interest in the business side of the gaming world.

It's just fun to see where it goes and if the better hardware wins. ;)

sascha23