@YUYU: Haha there are holes all the way through my evidence yes, but I still feel that there is something like that going on.

As for the cigar thing, do you remember ALLLLL the way back to the first MGS trailer that made fun of the killzone 2 trailer? Snake was smoking a cigar there.

As for the blades thing: he gave Raiden the katana because he doesn't like blades. Why would he suddenly change his mind for the new metal gear? Snake has aged MUCH more than Otacon, Campbell or Meryl. That's the whole point of "Old Snake".

Also, we have seen a young snake getting bird crap on his shoulder in one of the trailers. Care to explain that? :)

As for what you're saying about Outer Haven, yes I think you're right there. What was the reason for him wanting Big Boss' remains though? I forget.

PlayingKarrde

Yeah, if no one's played MGS2, they're going to be seriously spoiled. Also, Solidus doesn't control Ocelot-Liquid does- and he also wasn't really "evil". He's opposed to the Patriots, just like Solid Snake, but he resorted to terrorism to fight them.

NPlace

WTF, I'm never going to get this fucking plot straight....

William "Killer" Shatner

......

anyone else see the Assassin's Creed similarity on the bottom screen?

frank0127

Kotaku - please consider renaming this thread as the title itself represents a fairly significant potential spoiler.

kiigan

@PlayingKarrde: No, Liquid flat out told Snake that he HATED Big Boss, and hated Snake for stealing his chance at revenge at the end of MGS1. He wants to build Outer haven to surpass Big Boss and prove he is better than him.

Big Boss treated Liquid like garbage, calling him inferior and such since the day he was born.

YUYU

@Shiloa: That's true. Now I'm going to be anticipating him...

slomo788

PLEASE KOTAKU, the title is a spoiler enough for me. ='(

Shiloa

*Drool* Need...game.

Mikey G

@akwinters: I have to agree somewhat.

Leigh, the spoilers are in the header of the article.

If this is true, I would have wanted it to be a surprise.

...

...

...

Spoony Bard

@PlayingKarrde:

OBJECTION!

Just because he's not a fan of using blades doesn't mean he wont. He just likes guns better.
MGS4 Snake doesn't smoke cigars in any of the trailers.
As you said, it's the solid eye, and it's on the OTHER eye, Snake still has both of his eyes, BB's was 'shot'.
Actually, in MGS saga 2.0 it is confirmed to be the grave of Big Boss himself. I'm guessing it was EVA that put the same thing on his grave as The Boss's.
And then what about Meryl and Otacon and Naomi ect. How and why would Big Boss know them?
Ocelot's old. Campbell's old. EVA's old. There are lots of old MGS characters.

Not to mention that Big Boss was torched by Snake.

YUYU

You've GOT to be kidding me. You've GOT to be kidding me.

No way man. Holy shit.

Candlejack

@YUYU: Liquid didn't hate Big Boss. The whole point of Shadow Moses was that he wanted to recreate Outer Heaven, something Big Boss started. Now in 4 Liquid Ocelot had created Outer Haven, which is the same principle.

He also wanted Big Boss' body as part of his demands in MGS1. He wouldn't revive him just so he could kill him himself. Come on.

PlayingKarrde

@YUYU:
It was just flat out wrong. He even got the wrong form of Ocelot in there.

Demonbird

Cough* Solidus was Different than Liquid (whose arm is controlling Ocelot... OR IS OCELOT CONTROLLING IT!?!?!?!) Que dramatic music

Derigor

Liquid Snake is controlling Revolver Ocelot through his arm. Solidus Snake is just plain dead.

Zeikcied

whoa

johnnylineup

You know, a word of advice. If you're going to put spoilers in an article, don't put them in the title of the post and THEN warn about them...

It kind of defeats the point, because we know roughly what the "spoiler" after the jump is, in effect.

This is the second time Kotaku has spoiled a part of MGS4 for one of my friends. First with the child rape thing (thankfully that wasn't 100% accurate), and now this. He says, "thanks."

akwinters

@Demonbird: Yeah, that part kinda confused me too. Liquid is controlling Ocelot through his arm, hence his name "Liquid Ocelot".

Maybe he means because Solidus was the one who payed for it to be grafted on by some super expensive French doctor?

Also- Liquid Snake HATED Big Boss. Liquid was mad at Snake for killing Big Boss because he wanted to do it himself. I doubt he'd reanimate Old Jack just to kill him once again.

YUYU

I've predicted ever since the first MGS4 trailer that you are actually playing Big Boss in this game. You will play as the young solid snake later on though.

Evidence:
You use a knife - Solid Snake says in MGS2 he doesn't like blades
Snake smokes cigars (at least in the first trailer he did)
He has an eye patch (ok its the snake eye but still)
He is seen saluting the grave of The Boss when the colonel picks him up. Big Boss and Campbell were also friends.
He is old.

I said it and I stand by it.

PlayingKarrde

I don't think that screenshot's any more or less of a spoiler than, y'know, the headline and text before the jump.

Grave

I dont think so. I think he'll just be part of the flashback sequence. but i havent played it so i know nothing.....

<_<
>_>

No really, I'm just guessing.

*wink*

Narynan

"It sounds farfetched, but then again, so does the idea of the late Solidus, evil Snake clone and former U.S. President, controlling Russian jack-of-all-trades and gunslinger Liquid Ocelot through his arm, and that did happen!"

?

Misfire!

?

Accordion

Look at what he's wearing. The trench coat and his appearance are exactly how he was back in the olden days of the MG1 official artwork.

This is more than likely a flashback/playable dream sequence.

I saw this picture a while ago, but I'd be pissed if I didn't and read the title for this. I think a less spoilerific title would be nice....

YUYU

I should hope so. Does anyone realize that he's quite possibly the most im[portant character in the franchise and yet he's only been in one modern game?

Hell, I'm astounded there haven't been 3d remakes of the first two games before now. They'd sell well, and I'd imagine that you could sell them both together or apart. And you wouldn't haveto budget for a main villain since Big Boss and snake are voiced by the same guy.

Marasai

"so does the idea of the late Solidus, evil Snake clone and former U.S. President, controlling Russian jack-of-all-trades and gunslinger Liquid Ocelot through his arm, and that did happen!"

Uh... I think you are confusing your clones.

Demonbird

Sweet!

PatMan33

A Snake / Big Boss fight at the end would be a nice bookend to the MSX / NES original.

KaneRobot

@Norellicus:

The original METAL GEAR. No Solid.

Terance

I really like that Idea of finally ending the blood feud with Big Bosse's return.

"Wait wait, I'm confused...I don't remember fighting Big Boss in the original MGS..."
@Norellicus: The ORIGINAL Metal Gear, not Metal Gear Solid. lol.

^-^ Super Fan Service with that if he returns

ph15h needs a nu job

Dear Kotaku:

Can we stop posting MGS4 spoilers as headlines? Thanks.

Love,
creid

creid - is not New to Kotaku

Wait wait, I'm confused...I don't remember fighting Big Boss in the original MGS...

Norellicus

@Zeikcied:

Solidus may be dead, but so is Liquid, and so is Vamp.

Accordion

This guy on Kombo called it first.

[ps3.kombo.com]

cervantes240

@PlayingKarrde: Dammit I just watched that trailer again and it's a cigarette.

ANYWAY... I'm still holding out that we will be playing two versions of snake (and not just flashbacks). Old and young. Whether thats Big Boss and Solid Snake or what I don't know, but that's what my theory currently stands at :P

PlayingKarrde

You changed the title Leigh but I'm sure people already saw it. Not good.

DigitalHero

@mva5580: The spoilers in the article aren't the problem. It's the fact that twice *before the jump* that the contents of *after the jump* were heavily implied.

"But Big Boss is dead for good, right?

Right?"

Why not just say, "You all thought Big Boss was dead for good, but this new evidence shows that he might actually be in MGS4"? It's effectively the same thing when paired with the title "Secret MGS4 Character Leaked."

antialias02

@Marasai: Oh you mean Metal Gear Solid 1?

And Foxdie doesn't age people, it just kills. He has been aging rapidly due to the fact that he was cloned from a man in his 50's.

Black Arts Viper

It's probably just a flashback to the original Metal Gear.

Medicine Seller [ZTF]

@PlayingKarrde: Uh...the Solid Eye is on Solid Snake's left eye. Big Boss lost his right eye.

NPlace

@PlayingKarrde: Snake gave Raiden the sword because Olga asked Snake to give it to him. He said he's not a huge fan of blades, and I doubt he changed his mind, he's simply using it for better combat.

Yes he is aging rapidly, he has always been aging faster than normal because he is a flawed clone made with old 1970's cloning technology. But his recent really drastic aging is unknown as of now, even to him. Did you see that MGS4 clip of when Snake meets Meryl? She asks what happened to his face and he says he doesn't know why he's aging so quickly.

It's my belief that the young Snake in that trailer was just Kojima using the young Snake model we will be using in the playable dream sequences to fuck with us. Others believe it is an unlockable "young snake mask". And others think it's Snake after finding a cure for his aging, which I highly doubt. We'll have to wait and see.

Liquid wanted BB's remains to cure the genome soldiers who had gene therapy with artificially implant some of BB's "soldier genes" into them, but they got it wrong, and a lot of them started dieing. Liquid needed BB's corpse for his REAL DNA to find a cure for the genome soldiers.

YUYU

I love the people who come in here to complain about spoilers, yet you clicked on this page in the first place to get in here.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO BE "SPOILED," DON'T READ THE ARTICLES. It's pretty damn simple. Don't blame others for your lack of self-control.

mva5580

With MGS, nothing is a spoiler since anything is possible and an image of Big Boss could be part of his visions or part of reality. You never know...

I'm now off to my cryo-chamber. Wake me up on June 12th.

sascha23

You're still doing it wrong Leigh, "But Big Boss is dead for good, right?" is as much a spoiler as the previous title of the article... half the internetz is spoiled now

Resso

His appearance matches the retrofit they did on Big Boss for the original Metal Gear right down to the coat.

Everybody that dies only comes back once in the Metal Gear verse if they're really important and BB came back in MG2. Unless that is a complete prosthetic body and somehow they managed to copy the entirety of Big Boss' consciousness ala Ghost in the Shell cyber brains it's safe to assume that it's just an Outer Heaven or Zanzibar land flash back.

The only second logical answer is that it is another clone.

Seriously, he was already thirty during Snake Eater and in his 60s during the Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land incidents where Solid Snake literally torched him. There was no post game codec revealing BB was alive in MG2 like in MG1.

If Big Boss were somehow alive in 20XX, assuming it's 2014 if MGS2 took place in 2009, he'd be well into his eighties.

As for the grave Snake is visiting, we've got a good portion of game to get through spanning some time over five acts. What's to say it isn't the grave of a character that perhaps dies during the game?

Black-Dog-Howls

Whoa, whoa, whoa guys. Let's step back from the (surprisingly very polite) bitching for a moment. Is this really a spoiler? A fuzzy image of a screen pulled from a candid studio shot?

We're all obviously MGS fans, and we know the kind of crazy shit Kojima-san likes to pull. Maybe this shot of BB is from a flashback. Maybe Snake decided to dress up like BB to fuck with Liquid. Maybe it is the actual BB, miraculously resurrected from the dead. Maybe that's the actual identity of Johnny Sasaki under the mask. Hell, maybe it's another goddamn super clone, who'll pull the curtains to reveal that he's part of the super-secret S3 project that was initiated by the Templars in order to combat the Assassins and that the main mastermind working the scenes behind all the MG games is, in actuality, Altair--who is actually a 5,000 year-old super space Saiyan that hails from the alternate universe Earth 616, who has been trying to save the world of MGS from the clutches of Galactus.

Point being: not much of a spoiler. We all knew that BB was going to be in the game one way or another, especially after taking the starring role in the previous two canon MGS games. This is about as much of a spoiler as finding out that Snake is once again going to be voiced by--GASP!--David Hayden.

JustThisGuy

That image is could just be from a flashback.

BUT, if you look at the earlier promotional media for MGS4, Big Boss figured prominently.

I would be surprised if Big Boss *wasn't* in the game as a living, breathing entity, to be honest.

thenino85

I kind of figured Big Boss was going to make an appearence.

Snake in the trailer is visiting a grave, much like how Big Boss visited the grave of Boss at the end of MGS3.

Unless he was visiting Emma, theres nobody else who should be in that grave except Big Boss, who he would really care about. ....okay maybe Gray Fox, but thats it.

So if hes visiting Big Boss, chances are thats what we like to call 'foreshadowing'. Like how 'Master' shouldnt have even been around on the Shadow Moses mission, and that point was ignored until it was smack dab in your face duh its Liquid.

But all in all, a nice end for the MGS saga if this is true. Everything comes full circle.

Komrade_Kayce

@KaneRobot: O yeah...I watched the GameTrailers.com MG revisited video and was thinking the same thing :)

Seiven

Way to fuck up by putting the spoiler in the title again Kotaku. Jesus.

ValkyrJunkie

Thanks for changing the title, but having "Big Boss id dead, right"? remain before the jump doesn't change much

YUYU

@JustThisGuy: Hayter.

But no- I think this is more than that.

YUYU

@ William "Killer" Shatner:

You know, I tried to reply to your comment, but Kotaku just kept on bumping me back up to the header. Technical issues, I suppose.

In any case: MGS's overarching plot is perhaps best described by reading this, and replacing every reference to "Spider Man" with alternating variants of "Snake"--Liquid, Solidus, Solid, Naked. Oh, and every once in a while, pepper the article with a bit about a sentient arm that makes people speak in British accents.

JustThisGuy

I'm pretty sure that's a flashback so I wouldn't say Big Boss is back... yet.

Fireblast

@YUYU: HA! You know, I read your response and asked myself, "then who the fuck is David Hayden?"

For shits and giggles, I googled David Hayden and found out that he is apparently some sort of failed Silicon Valley entrepreneur. I suppose it would be quite a spoiler if Hayter was replaced by Hayden.

Seriously, though: why do you believe that his is a spoiler? (Actually curious, not a rhetorical question.) There's no clear context to the screen grab, and I can't think that anyone would be really surprised by BB's appearance in the game. At the very least, I think most of us would expect him to appear in some sort of flashback sequence, considering both his importance to canon and his central role in the last 2 games. I still hold that this is about as spoilerific as, say, watching the old RotJ commercials to find out that Harrison Ford has escaped the carbonite, alive and well.

@Black-Dog-Howls: I'm not sure if logic of any kind applies to the MGS series--unless you're talking about Kojima's strange, twisted form of internal narrative logic. I mean, once Liquid's arm took over Ocelet and made him speak in a British accent, I kinda decided to just give up and enjoy the ride for what it is.

JustThisGuy

Big Boss looks like Chuck Norris. Is it just me?

Highlander Wolf

@PlayingKarrde: The eyepatch is exactly why it COULDN'T be Big Boss... The eyepatch lets the eye under the patch see things better with readouts... Both of Old Snake's eyes work just fine. Big Boss's eye is, ya know, gone... So it couldn't be him, for many many other reasons, and Metal Gear Saga 2.0 and many trailers have confirmed this is Solid Snake...

bobtheduck

@JustThisGuy:
Well, judging by a lot of peoples initial reaction, not just on this site but others, there are plenty very surprised and very excited about this. I just think that after showing so much of MGS4 over the past...4 years (God has it really been that long?) it's kindof a shame to have an exciting/surprising moment taken away from some peoples playing experience.

And the text before them jump might as well say that Big Boss is likely going to appear in MGS4.

YUYU

Didn't someone from the MGS4 project say there were going to be some surprise returning characters?

Big Boss back, I wouldn't be surprised. Here's another name no one has mentioned yet but could very possibly return from the "dead".

Fortune

UmeShoryu

@JustThisGuy: His arm isn't "sentient"

If you payed close attention to MGS3,you'd realize Ocelot was the Sorrow's son, and he inherited some degree of the sorrow's power. Not enough to control it, but enough that he still had contact with dead people (like Liquid)

Liquid is using Ocelot as a medium, and is able to because of Ocelot's father...

bobtheduck

My guess is a flashback or ocelot gets a haircut and an eyepatch.

ItotheCtotheE

Ocelot should have watched that Robot Chicken skit where the guy got a serial killer's balls and his junk started killing everybody.

It doesn't end well.

Eienhander

@PlayingKarrde:

Otacon does not know Big Boss.

Master_Achilles

Since Big Boss is essentially Snake Senior, maybe it's a scene from the ending where history starts to repeat itself.

Frank

Cheers for the spoiler, guys. -_-

Crazyreyn

@Crazyreyn: They have a spoiler warning. You clicked it.

Also, it's Big Boss. He's wearing the same brown trenchcoat that Shinkawa draws him in. It's either a flashback to MG or MG2:SS, or it's a new scene altogether.

I highly doubt he'll be brought back from the dead, and in such fine condition, and in his old duds, when the last time he was seen chronilogically, he was a horribly burned body stored in a cryogenic chamber.

Suzaku

@Suzaku: But by putting 'omg we bought BB was dead right?' gives it away.

Crazyreyn

Well, Snake's mother will be showing up so why not his father? The thing I'm more concerned about is that younger Snake who appeared in the same suit and graveyard that Old Snake later appeared in. What's that about?

cheeses

I love Kotaku, the site entertains me all day, every day.

But this article is pure fail. Not only are we spoiled by the pre-jump. But we're also spoiled by the URL too.

[kotaku.com]

There's just so much WRONG! I can't take it!

Itchy (PSN: Kaizoku-ou)

We've seen Snake saluting what looks like Boss's grave, another, younger Snake, Snake is using The End's Mosin sniper..not to mention his choice of weapons seems closer to what BB used than Solid, and the things Old Snake has been saying don't really sound like Solid to me. I think "Old Snake" is Big Boss, brought back from the dead like Gray Fox was. The crap he was injecting into himself is probably what is keeping him alive. I suspect also that most of the people he is interacting with Otacon, Meryl, ect.) are being led to believe he is Solid for some reason. ..they do look and sound alike, after all.

Tibeerius

It look like a flaskback or playable last metal gear 1 stage more than current time. After all why goto all that trouble to bring back big boss and have his eye missing. If you play mgs 3 you find out why it is missing. If you cloned somebody it should be from the embrotic stages.

chumpyman

Maybe they replaced Big Boss's missing right eye with one of Liquid's...if grafting Liquid's arm onto Ocelot is possible, why not an eye?

Tibeerius

i dont know how they would bring big boss back but my theory is old snake becomes big boss at the end i know its a huge turn for snake but lets not forget big boss turned after mgs3 and snake is a carbon copy of bb im just saying maybe ocelot tells snake everything and snake has a massive brain fart who knows. i will say this i dont think he dies hell just have a name change like bigger boss or what ever kojima wants.

zitichamp

posting the spoiler before the jump link..way to go kotaku.

solidsquirrel

@YUYU: What if you begin the game as young Snake and gradually age as the game progesses. That middle eastern battle field stage isn't at the start of the game, so plenty of time passes before we get to the Snake shown in the trailers.

@Tibeerius: That eye patch has been jumping from eye to eye since the 1980. In different versions/installments Big Boss has sported it on either eye.

@Black-Dog-Howls: "If Big Boss were somehow alive in 20XX, assuming it's 2014 if MGS2 took place in 2009, he'd be well into his eighties."
Not if he cloned himself an apprentice in the '80s.

cheeses

Do you know what would be a surprise (not counting of EVA, that i didn't expected)? Would be Grey Fox to return, that would be nice, i know he's dead.
Everyone one knows Big Boss would come in one way or another, from that early concept art.

zerojad