@SnakeCL:

By saying MMOs aren't based on skill as much as they are on repetition, you've preemptively proven my point.

I'm fine if you've got a job, friends, athletics, and so on. I've got 'em, too. I recognize that this means I have less time to do other stuff, like playing an MMO. That's how I look at it.

By adding alternate means to acquire stuff in-game, you're reducing the value of that stuff. In the long run, you'll have fewer players and subscribers. It's like running cheat codes with a single player game. Most (not all, but most) people lose interest in the game pretty fast once they can progress with minimal effort.

Presuming the press release is accurate, the microtransactions in The Agency will have a pretty big impact on gameplay. You may call it leveling the playing field; I call it compromising the integrity of the game. I see it as little more than a get-rich-quick scheme for both players and SOE, and I think it's gonna fail, powerfully.

Aldashin

@pd771: What you said. If these are just cosmetic upgrades then I don't care, but if you have to pay for items that grant stat bonuses and such, then no thanks.

Silverbackne

@Radau: Well put!

Vorpal

Yay more nickel & diming!

What i was expecting. Everything SoE touches turns to shat.

string_theory

I would like to know if there is ONE person here who can present a valid business strategy for free mmo's without microtransactions.

And no...Advertising won't cut it.

Microtransactions are actually a sane thing to use in a free - to - play type of game. Nobody forces you to buy them. Don't like the advantage paying people get, then don't play the game.

marlblank

@The_nub_next_door: "Any game were real life money can buy you an advantage is an instant boycott for me."

Exactly what I was going to say.

yashichi8bit

Aslong as the game has no subscription, which is looking more and more likely, this'll be a winner.

Maleficence

@SnakeCL:

If you don't have the time to play a MMO then there are plenty of games out there where you can buy all of your gear.

All I was saying was that it's unfortunate that The Agency is choosing a payment model based more on who wants to be the UBER LEETEST instead of the players who have actually taken the time to play the game.

Yes, if you have a demanding job playing an MMORPG probably isn't going to work for you.

From the screens and videos of this game it looked like it was going to be something much different. I was really looking forward to it. It was looking to be a game that wasn't going to copy the EQ MMO style which would have been quite refreshing. But I just don't see the point in playing a game where you can have the best gear for 5 extra dollars. Most people who don't like RMT don't dislike it because they can't afford it, but rather because it defeats the entire concept of how the game rewards skill and time spent playing.

Radau

@SnakeCL: If you don't see people complaining about the unfair playtimes of outright addicts of various games, it's cuz you're really not paying attention.

MehGinla

@shemmy: ´

Ah... my question was answered.

Garo

@Nereos:

Yes, it was very easy in Everquest2. Well that was 2 years ago when it was Stationexchange and I was still playing although I don't know much about the new service.

Garo

Hey if you can't beat the cheaters, make the ones that don't like they just got!

MehGinla

I'm all for microtransactions. I doubt SOE's dumb enough to make the game require RMTs for players to be successful - it'll probably be some avatar customization stuff, convenience items, and maybe minor stat boosts that don't REALLY affect gameplay/balance that much. I severely doubt you'd be able to buy your way to the top.

So everyone quit your bitching. It IS possible for RMTs for character upgrades to NOT be game breaking or unfair. Check out Freestyle Basketball as a case study.

outforprophets

SOE already use Livegamer in Everquest2. so far it's been a dismal failure as livegamer just don't seem to be able to get their act together.

check the eq2 boards for all the livegamer complaints.

shemmy

Well that settles it, the game is off my list.

Who am I kidding, it never was on my list to begin with. Something about the art style and the look of the combat just didn't do it for me.

I could have been in the 'pleasantly surprised' camp but this news is going to keep me away. My two cents.

Killtacular

@Radau:

As opposed to the skill of clicking three buttons for 12 hours longer than the other guy. MMO's aren't exactly skill-based games. They're based primarily on grinding repetitive tasks.

SnakeCL

The other thing they could do is put a lv cap on certain weapons they sell... however, bad idea to sell better weapons to ppl. for real $

pd771

So, you'll actually be able to sell in-game things (as a player) to other players for real money?

Sounds like a good way of making real money, that is, if you're a good gamer...

Nereos

I'm not that big into MMORPGs, but the one thing I can't stand is when they include microtransactions.

Simply for the fact that it unbalances game play for those who pay for upgrades. It's not based on any merit in skill in the game or anything. I mean yes, I can afford to spend an extra ten dollars to get better gear, but where is the achievement in the process of typing in your credit card number to get a better sword.

Radau

@Garo: Awesome southpark reference!

Schoolimangooli

@The_nub_next_door:

I'm sorry, but I'm getting somewhat sick of this sort of stance.

"Any game where someone who plays 24/7 has an advantage is an instant boycott for me." But I don't see people complaining about the unfair playtimes of outright addicts of various games. boo-frickin-hoo.

MMO's are designed around a time vs money aspect. The more time you spend acquiring something, the less money you need, and vice versa. RMT is just something that evens the playing field for someone who has the MONEY to spend on something, but not to time to grind out (ie. those with lives).

SnakeCL

Every MMORPG nowadays has microtransactions. The difference here is that they are controlled and legal.
This will ensure that nobody gets killed for a "Sword of a Thousand Truths".

Garo

Hopefully it's just items that improve the look, and not stats, of the player

pd771

Quick, I need some money for my game idea. See, it's this black screen with an elipse on it. It's an elipse with a bit of shading on the inside see, it's mean to simulate a black hole.

You then repeatedly throw 10 dollar bills at the screen until they stick.

Eville1

Any game were real life money can buy you an advantage is an instant boycott for me.

And no i'm certainly not a communist and SOE is free to put as much microtransactions in their game as they want.

The_nub_next_door

be cool if they came out with everquest 2 on ps3 ill will buy it'

Schoolimangooli

Lame. I was looking forward to getting the agency but if it's just going to be lol microtransactions I'll pass.

Radau

Provided its done well, its a step in the right direction. Its either that or trying to police the economy as players buy things ANYWAY... something that no MMO thus far has been able to stop and keep the in-game economy from going down the crapper.

SnakeCL

so instead of fake money earned in the game i have to use real money to buy gear?

Please correct me if i'm wrong (i hope im wrong)

SofaKingHI

If it is free to play, I could care less about microtransactions. If they aren't required, I don't need them. I'm sure you can still get different outfits/weapons for free, you just have to pay for certain ones... I don't need those specific ones, do I?

NoMoreTrolls

yeah... Screw the players that works hard for their items instead and rewards the cheating moneyhats...

I'm still looking very much forward to The agency anyhow. It looks very good.

skobar

Ugh.

KaneRobot

Microtransactions working the way intended to be imo. As long as the prices aren't too much its a good idea (see rock band prices)

Zaos

Nooooo! I actually had hopes for the Agency. Any game where you can improve your stats by playing Q*bert is a winner in my book.

the-hypnotoad

@Radau:

Let me flip that around for you.

"If you don't have the money to spend 5 bucks on an MMO, there are plenty of other games out there that don't allow you to buy gear."

This whole thing is almost like the gay marriage debate.

The very idea of allowing someone to buy equipment somehow ruins the sanctity of the equipment that you grinded out? Pleeeaaase.

SnakeCL

"#c5699150">Radau: @Aldashin:

You are forgetting following points:

You can't buy a higher level!
You can't wear a lvl60 gear if you are level 10 :/

This means you will still have to grind your way through!

Garo

@Aldashin:

You completely failed to address anything I said however. For instance. how would the fact that someone else bought their epic armor change your enjoyment when you finally earn yours? Furthermore, most (not all, but most) people lost interest in the game when it becomes apparent that they will never be able to experience certain content that would require larger time commitments. MMO's for the most part have been inherently gear based. If you didn't have the proper gear for a dungeon, then said dungeon is harder or un-finishable.

Furthermore, is it true that you're going to have fewer subscribers? There's the entire possibility you might have MORE since people who normally don't have the time to play an MMO to grind out 70+ levels and the time to get their epic gear or what have you, would be interested in playing a game where they could actually experience end-game content at some point before the servers close?

SnakeCL

So many free to play, pay for more online games have been successful enough. Granted it's not for everyone. Honestly I don't agree that the game has to be fair for every player to be fun. Just as long as someone's else money doesn't affect my broke ass, I don't see any problem.

tnx3

This is interesting... hope it doesn't get them into tax trouble.

okenny :)

Aaaaand gone is what little enthusiasm I had for The Agency.

JAcK0R

So does this mean I can sub my workload to others for money? I could hire my own minions!?

Punkateer

Way to turn a molehill into a mountain guys

LittleBigPlaneteer

The very first thing you will see when opening a game by EA are the SMS numbers to get the cheats. That really tells you where the mainstream is.

The hardcore will shun games such as the agency. They have a sexual fetish connected to their ability to show off skill. If that is undercut by players compensating with money, then they will go away. It remains to be seen if Sony can make money off this game. Since it is free they will boast insane registration numbers, but if they reall are good for anything remains to be see.

Asbestos_Underwear

@LittleBigPlaneteer: Negativity is a bitch ain't it >:) ???

*bites LittleBigPlaneteer in the face and steals his lunch*

okenny :)

@SnakeCL: Very well, allow me to be totally clear about this.

No one likes to have their accomplishments diminished. People care about those accomplishments on different levels, but the point remains. That piece of gear or that level or anything that you can acquire in a game has a certain meaning. Many factors are at play - time, luck, cooperation from other players, and so on - but in general, you can say you did x if you have y. Throwing benjamins into the mix means that value is distorted. Did you actually take 10 hours to get that item, or did you pay $10 for it? I acknowledge what's the smarter play there - that's not the point.

It's certainly possible that a game's difficulty may be too high for profitability. But several MMOs have shown a reasonable level of difficulty as shown by their subscriber bases (hi WoW).

What keeps people in general playing MMOs is the grind. It's the classic reward box from psychology. Taking a shortcut to that reward diminishes the value of the reward, because you have to do less to get it. So the satisfaction one would generally feel from that reward is, again, diminished. If you feel less attached to your characters, you're more than likely to stop playing (and stop paying).

Games in general take a long time to develop. MMOs take even longer than the average game when you look at financial cost and manhours. Unless you have a development team of 400 (which is 3 times the size of a really big studio) or all kinds of artificial roadblocks which present problems and complaints of their own, your community will progress through content faster than you can develop it. So if you're spending two years to develop a game that your community can burn through in 3 months, you're doing it wrong and your revenue will be minimal.

Aldashin

Nah, personally, I'm not interested in games that feature a 'wallet advantage'. That said, games that come from the SOE stable hardly appear on my must-have list in the first place as they tend to start off as complete turkeys and go downhill from there.

Mire

@SnakeCL:
It doesn't ruin the sanctity, it spoils the whole game.
Grinding is hard work (though this game doesn't look like a grinder in the MMO sense...) when you finally get the gear after all that grinding, you have something to be proud of... unless someone can just load themselves to the nines with bought items and trump you. Then you'd better do the same to catch up or be inadequate because you actually work! Now the game is way more expensive and you don't even play it.

Then it doesn't sound like the grinding route is even in this game. I thought it looked really cool before, but I'M OUTTA HERE.

fuchikoma

and all that hope I had for this game just went down the the microtransations shitter. Really, If they had said the game costs $XX.XX per month, I would have been fine with it. When they start saying "The game is free, but you have to fork out cash for the cool stuff" i have a problem with it.

I've tried other microtransaction free MMOs, and truthfully I hated them all. Its much more staisfying when that armor you want, or that weapon drops from something you just killed then just going and buying it.

As it is, SOE is out my $60 for the game now.

Khabi

As if they wouldn't integrate the new IP into their sony station.

SOE invented DKP and proceeded to kill it.

Fyren

I doubt this will be for all servers, just as Station Exchange wasn't for all EQ2 servers. It was limited, so that players who wanted it could go for it, and those who didn't want to buy things with real cash were still fine playing on servers without it.

drakino

Ok, here's first, skipping the comments and actually reading the press release.

A) Good way to pre-emptively cut out the shady RMT spammers that ruin the game. Bots (the preferred way of gathering money), "Buy gold at blahblahblah.com" spam would be eliminated.

B) Until details are revealed about the game itself or the available items for sale, I reserve judgement, but: You can't buy "skill" or "understanding of game mechanics". And I've always found "put in enough time and effort and MAYBE the item you want will drop"-mechanic a slap in the face.

Gaff