@Daemonstar: But you're functioning under the assumption that if you're epileptic, you're an epileptic from birth. And that's not necessarily true at all. People can develop epilepsy at any point in their lives-- babies, children, teens-- even legal adults can develop epilepsy at any time. So unfortunately, until we find a way to CURE epilepsy, we really do have to take the long way around, and be more careful with the kinds of content we create.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

Bristol Evening Post? Really? Kotaku get better sources :P

Communist_Gamer

@WillyWonka: I think I know how GTA V is going to open now.

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

I suppose the most important thing here would be to find out if there were some way to lessen or prevent these sorts of issues in the first place. Yes, there's warnings, and unless you're entirely a terrible parent, you realize there are issues that might arise from gaming, or biking, or rollerskating.

Perhaps consoles/handhelds could have settings on them that set games that may harbor these risks into a much tamer 'strobing light/light pattern' setting upon startup. That way, if your kid is prone to having these sorts of seizures (or even if you're just cautious he might be susceptible) games will always be set to a default 'PSE-Safe' mode to greatly reduce the chances of it happening. You have to figure the things (at least the common triggers that cause these seizures) can't contribute all that much to a gamer's enjoyment of the title... there's got to be options to remove them for the sake of people who just can't stand 'em.

Ampillion = That Man.

Even though some companies do testing on their games, this will probably lead to increased costs (which will be passed to the consumer) and possibly delayed releases of games. I'm sure they will mandate certain requirements and standards for testing.

Is testing for safety a bad thing? No, but, as qhue pointed out, we should be testing our kids and getting medical advice early on instead of testing everything they come in contact with in their environment. The earlier you know you have such a condition, the better you'll be able to function and handle it.

Daemonstar

On bootup of the DS the screen should flash and then have the message "If you are having a seizure now, you cannot play this game because you are an epileptic". That would solve everything. You don't even have to know how to read.

WillyWonka

@Wolfers: I'm very sorry you're allergic to peanuts, and I hope you didn't have a dangerously serious reaction. But man, Blizzards are delicious.

@jpneiswi: I know-- I'd like to see a follow-up article here talking about how they test this kind of thing for seizure-inducing content.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

What DS exactly are you pointing at?

anglon

@xAnarChisTx: - "Wait, don't video games already have a disclaimer about seizures, either on the back of the box, or in the instruction manual?"

Hell yeah they do, they've been giving out that warning for over 20 years now. And as shaunomacx already said, there's a warning screen that pops up everytime you turn on the DS. If Gaye Herford was more of a responsible parent, she would read thru the warning manual before letting her kid play the game. At least now she knows her son has epilepsy.

dead_red_eyes

@Altima NEO: Hah, oops.

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

Unless you give everyone an EEG brainwave scan, the most common way you're going to find out if you're photosensitive is if you have a seizure. Testing all games to figure out which are safe for photosensitive people is a great idea, but there's a sentence about "preventing the first seizure" that I don't understand. All the warnings in the world won't stop someone who thinks they're not affected. Case in point, I finished a butterfinger blizzard at dairy queen only to find out I was allergic to peanuts. Attempting to prevent the first reaction is nigh impossible, but identifying which games can trigger PSE is a good idea.

Wolfers

@Hubert Humphrey Methadone: exactly, seems just because he was playing a PLATFORM game not even one with psychadelic effects, the game was obviously at fault :(

shaunomacx

There's an easy solution. Give console gamers the same freedom as PC gamers in terms of controlling polys, lighting, effects etc albeit a bit more dumbed down. If the child had the option to tone down all the particle effects and kept the strobe lighting/colors at a minimum I have no doubt in my mind he would still have as much fun playing Raving Rabbids on the DS as the seizure inducing version.

DefDealer

Instead of testing the television, movies, and games shouldn't we consider testing the child? Personally I'd rather this be uncovered in a clinical setting rather than while speeding past a billboard at night.

qhue

@Grumps: They often come with warnings about strobe lighting, as do nightclubs and live music venues. They can also take relatively simple steps to reduce obvious PES triggers (i.e. stop using strobe lights), but I guess it's easier to print a warning sign and let the epilepsy sufferers miss out on the whole show.

stoneagedan

@Altima NEO: *shouldnt

Altima NEO

Pretty sure most instruction manuals say that if you suffer from seizures, you should be playing.

Altima NEO

alright... how about haunted houses? should haunted houses be tested for seizures and shut down if they cause them? no, of course a haunted house could cause seizures, in fact a good one always would.

Grumps

@shaunomacx: The episode where the Simpsons go to Japan comes to mind when they watch "Battle Seizure Robots".

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

@soap_box: It seemed like the kid wasn't diagnosed - "She said her son had never had a fit before..."

Do we know if he was diagnosed with epilepsy previously?

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!: I know, I can't think of any way to test it than to induce someone with a seizure, but I'm pretty sure seizures are bad for the brain anyways. I do think this is a good idea though, seeing as movies and tv shows already do this kind of testing. I wonder what they use?

jpneiswi

I wonder???

How long he was playing for?
unknown
Whether or not he plays all day long?
unknown
Does he get enough sunlight?
unknown but unlikely
Was he playing games because they keep him quiet?
lots of parents keep kids out of the way in this manner
Does he have a medical history with seisures?
unknown but he could have had an undetected one
Bearing all this in mind the DS does say the following upon startup!
-----------------------------------------------------
WARNING HEALTH AND SAFETY
Before playing, read the health and safety precautions booklet for important information about your health and safety.
-----------------------------------------------------
[www.gearlive.com]
The link above is a screengrab of the DS image.

Now saying that the woman is trying to help all sufferers of epileptic seisures but really anime cartoons and television programmes are far more intensely damaging that the DS Lite.

shaunomacx

@Grumps:
Maybe I have to turn off the Xbox when my sister is in the room, becuase they all ahve PES warnings, and she's epileptic. The TV doesn't cause seizures, but I won't take the chance with the Xbox, becuase every game says it can cause fits. It'd be nice to know if they genuinely do cause fits.

stoneagedan

This is just stupid. I've witnessed two seizures in my lifetime, both of which were as you guessed it, induced by video games. BUT they were at the most random moments possible.
My friend, Chris, had a seizure once while building Battle Cruisers on Starcraft. Yeah, wtf?
The second time was when I let him borrow my Advance Wars and he was playing it on his couch and had a seizure.
I'm telling you, these things are seriously random as crap.

Hixxy

@digipen89: That is totally like this one time I took a bath with my hairdryer while I was asleep. DIAL L-A-W-Y-E-R-S didn't do crap.

In all serious, though, I hate seeing kids getting hurt by things they're supposed to enjoy through basically no fault of their own. At least the kids' okay and he helped bring greater awareness to the issue for parents.

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

@digipen89:
But cigarettes have filters, steps have been taken to reduce tar contents, benzene contents etc. Do video game companies take steps to improve the safety of their product, or do they just stick on a warning so they're covered against potential lawsuits, irrespective of content?

stoneagedan

In the article:

"She was unaware that electronic video games had the potential to trigger photo sensitive epileptic (PSE) seizures."

Surely if you have a 10 year old son who suffers from epilepsy, you learn these kinds of obvious things?

soap_box

@stoneagedan: I'm just trying to say that if you have epilepsy or find out you have it, maybe you should pick a new hobby besides playing games.

Epilepsy also comes in degrees of severity, so it's hard to test without being over severe. There should just be a website that keeps a list of games and their potential to cause seizures, maybe the epilepsy peeps could whip that together instead of whining about wanting to play games and have flashing lights removed from them.

Grumps

@Grumps: @Dannon: @xAnarChisTx:

Yeah, I feel like I see warnings on every game I boot up.

Funny, I don't recall seeing them on Berserker, though.

Hubert Humphrey Methadone

It sucks the child had a seizure but the warnings are there. It's like suing the cigarette companies now when the warning is on the package. You can't claim negligence on not reading the warnings.

digipen89

@digipen89: Its has been on all Nintendo games for a few generations back, now. Always on when you press power on the Wii.

Shiryu

@Grumps:
Actually, Little Tommy can't really play any games anymore, as nearly all of them come with PES warnings, regardless of whether they cause seizures or not. The main reason for that is that they don't have to follow the standardised tests that TV follows. If they pass that certification, he may still sufffer seizures, but it's less likely than if it's got obvious PES triggers.

stoneagedan

IMPORTANT SAFETY INFORMATION: READ THE FOLLOWING WARNINGS BEFORE YOU OR YOUR CHILD PLAY VIDEO GAMES

"Some people (about 1 in 4000) may have seizures or blackouts triggered by light flashes or patterns, and this may occur while they are watching TV or playing video games, even if they have never had a seizure before"

Inside the instruction manual for Ubisoft's Rayman Raving Rabbids for the Wii.

digipen89

Wow, it's like 1991 all over again. Sonic has just been released and is causing seasure attacks on kids everywhere.

Im all for this being legislated. Should be mandatory. However... how exactly do we test for seizure induncing? Are there any 100% conclusive tets on this!? Ill go dig around...

Shiryu

Well, as "Television and film programs are already tested" I think it makes perfect sense to also test video games.

Harteex

@Dannon: Yeah, that's what I thought.

If she was a responsible parent, she would read all of the content that comes with the game, thus informing the parent of the causes. Parents would know this crap if they would just did their homework, and research these things before they try to create some sort of a rebellion to make video game development more difficult than it already is.

xAnarChisTx

@xAnarChisTx:
I think the point is that the video game publishers could take some steps to minimse the chances of PES. They can't ever make games "safe" for those that suffer from epilepsy, but they can reduce certain elements of games that are obvious triggers for seizures. It needs to be done carefully; if a game fails the PES certification (if it is introuduced) is it then withheld from UK stores? Will that testing occur on beta builds (if so, will the developers be able to make changes, or are they too fundamental to the graphics?). It has serious implications for how games are made and sold - in the UK at least - but I find it hard to see it as a negative thing. People with epilepsy shouldn't be forced to live without television, cinema and games, if it can be helped. If there are steps that can be taken that are more positive than simply saying "if you're epileptic, this game may cause seizures", then perhaps they should be taken.

stoneagedan

alright here's the real lol part

"But that's no good for the thousands of people with dormant PSE because they don't know the warnings - if they even read them - apply to them."

what the fuck? this makes no sense at all. Sorry you had to find out your kid is epileptic this way. But it's not anyones fault. That's like testing peanuts against peanut allergies. Of course a flashing led screen will cause seizures. Sorry little Tommy can't play some games no more.

Grumps

I thought games were already tested for this.

EmeraldDragon

@Grumps: They are, and as are the consoles themselves, if I remember correctly. However, not all games do, so it's a fair point to start testing them more strictly.
At the moment it's like if they put Nuts, Gluten, Dairy, etc warnings on every food on the planet and expected those with allergies to just risk it and guess which didn't have the stuff they're allergic to.

Pombar

I knew Touch Generations: Seizure Training For Kids was an iffy title to release.

Seriously, this isn't a bad idea, but how are they going to test it? Just avoid spontaneous flashes of bright color? Or is there a computer program to simulate human responses to this sort of stimuli?

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

Alright, what did Pokémon do THIS time?

megaStryke

@xAnarChisTx: I'm pretty sure I remember seeing them in game manuals as far back as the Mega Drive, probably further, the warnings are already there people.

Maybe the kid was just really excited about playing the game, I've not played it so I don't know, maybe Hypnotoad popped up on screen and turned him into a mess before disappearing again.

Dannon

"Ms Herford said: "Parents should know that every time they buy their child a game, there is the potential for an epileptic seizure,"

i thought games were peppered with seizure warnings already?

Grumps

Wait, don't video games already have a disclaimer about seizures, either on the back of the box, or in the instruction manual?

So, they have already been warned about the possible causes of video game playing.

xAnarChisTx

"Television and film programs are already tested."

Games need to follow the same rules personally

Sparkyuk

So these seizures I have playing these games are part of the game? I thought that was the new "Thing" in games, sorta like force feedback

Scrapple

I hope she bothered to read the seizure warnings Nintendo have had in their games for donkeys years...

photoboy

I wonder how much time, effort, man-power and money this would take. Yeah, TV and Movies are already tested for inappropriate content as well, but Games can't be tested in the same way. Would they show all of the screens possible in the game? would a computer play through it to completion? I'm kinda curious how they would pull it off and make it worth it at the same time.

Yes, it's horrible that this ever happens and I care more for the kid than ever could the parent, but at a certain point you have to be pragmatic. Just like with allergies, an item can have all the warnings in the world and you won't know you're susceptible until you try it the first time. Not to be crass, but at a certain point, the cost-benefit tips away from the favor of preventing a first attack, which is nearly impossible to avoid in the first place.

Curious: what moment in Raving Rabbids could have been seizure inducing?

Arloknox

*me reads a game manual*

"Important Health Warning About Playing Video Games

Photosensitive Seizures
A very small percentage of people may experience a seizure when exposed to certain visual images, including flashing lights or patterns that may appear in video games. Even people who have no history of seizures or epilepsy may have an undiagnosed condition that can cause these "photosensitive epileptic seizures" while watching video games...

blah blah blah

Immediately stop playing and consult a doctor if you experience any of these symptoms. Parents should watch for or ask their children about the above symptoms--children and teenagers are more likely than adults to experience these seizures...blah blah blah..

if you or any of your relatives have a history of seizures or epilepsy, consult a doctor before playing.."

dont all game manuals have the same thing????...i've seen it on lots. some even have them on the game menu itself right?
People should really read the manual...lol, i'd blame the parents for letting the kids play it.

pissa

@excel_excel: You're right, my friend. It's hard to see how they're going to solve this problem.

PILOTWINGS WII CONFIRMED (TO CAUSE SEIZURES)!

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

Anybody who has epilepsy DO NOT CLICK ON THE FOLLOWING LINK:
[seizurerobots.com]

torched

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!: Agreed, but really I mean there are so many different things in video games that could potentially cause seizures to epilespy suffers, just like there are in so many movies

excel_excel

Some people are missing the point. Video games are inherently seizure inducing. No amount of testing is going to improve anything, only take away from what games are allowed to do. Books rarely cause seizures, board games, solitaire, playing music, there are plenty of activities for epileptic people. This though, is not a good one to choose unless you like having seizures.

Grumps

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!: Hmm it's unlikely that there will every be a 'cure' for epilepsy as it's not a specific problem epilepsy could be described as a symptom of something that is wrong with the brain. Also as most people think epilepsy is simply someone having a seizure and foaming at the mouth that's not true, there's many different types of epilepsy some of them don't even have seizures as a symptom.

Klopfer123

So... we start making games to avoid people getting epileptic attacks... then we get the color blind people having issues with green or red or both... then we start making sure that games can be controlled by left hand... and by right hand... maybe by foot... then we start making games that take into account that some people can't hear so well... can't see... can't touch...

Come buy the newest game on the block! Neutral Color Bumpy Cardboard Box! Be the first to sit very still in the middle of the box (for those sensitive to paper cuts)!

No wait, then we would have the danger that someone will play the game while walking across the road. Better to make it out of something translucent. Oh and someone may be allergic to cardboard dust.

People have problems with their lives that require them to take certain precautions. That is a fact of their lives and, seriously, they really need to start accepting the facts of their lives. We can't change the world to accommodate EVERYbody's physical and mental well-being requirements.

Warnings are good. Put them on there. They will soon get the hang of reading the warnings. The worst case scenario, they can't play those games that are released without Options that allow them to play without certain effects. Give them the OPTION to turn off, say, sparking flashy effects that provide atmosphere in games, but don't do away with it altogether.

kryllen

If TV and film are already tested, video games absolutely should be, too. Yes, the warning is there on all games, but it's there on ALL games. That doesn't seem quite fair.

thesycophant

I'm a UK game developer, and I can tell you that many games are already tested using the Harding FPA software.

[en.wikipedia.org]

Any game which fails this test should be returned to the developer to be reworked.

Headlam

@Daemonstar: Absolutely. However, I get the feeling from this article that they'd like to eradicate potentially dangerous interactive elements from gaming entirely, not just reduce the risks a bit. After all, most people don't have any form of epilepsy at all.

wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!

@wild homes 5: treyarch attacks!: Most epillepsy is currently understood to be traced to either genes or brain trauma (injury, disease, etc.). Not all epilepsy continues from childhood into adulthood, and the occurrence of epilepsy decreases with age. Also, in a city of 100,000 only 25 (statistically) will have PSE.

Daemonstar

I mean really... it's like feeding a kid peanut butter when he's allergic, then demanding that peanut butter be made without peanuts from that point on in the interest of public safety...

fuchikoma

She has missed the bus by at least 25 years. Games have had warnings about seizures longer than her son has been around. So maybe instead of attacking a whole medium that is... you know... glowing, visual, and often flashing in nature, they should save the tax dollars and hold a hearing whether she's fit to raise children instead?

It's bad enough the Wii has a DVD player like unskippable "REMEMBER TO USE YOUR WRISTSTRAP!" at the start of anything. Sooner or later you'll pop a disc in, watch the strap warning, then an RSI warning, then a seizure warning, then an compulsive habit warning, then the publisher logo, the developer logo, logos of licensed engines and codecs, and then the title screen! Only to see a game that's been rounded and nerfed into mediocrity by trying not to cause any problems for anyone whatsoever...

fuchikoma

They put a freaking warning every time you boot the system up, it says they may cause seizures, dumbasses don't read manuals anymore and that's just who these people are.

Shaoko

Like everyone else said, there's a bigass warning every time you start up.

Maybe "Mum" should pay a little more attention to the things she lets her kid play with. Parenting. Try it.

Evil Tortie's Mom

I personally think this is like if she took him to a lobster dinner, and found out he was allergic to shellfish when he started foaming at the mouth. It's no one's fault, it's unfortunate, don't do it again.

der13manner

i knew from the start that those rabbits were from hell!
...and probably have some sort of rabies too.

neojam

@Sparkyuk: Why don't games follow the same rules as TV and movies as it is? That's worrying!

Jamie_W

Well, based on the TV and film testing, if you whatever is being screened doesn't pass the testing there's merely a warning before it's shown. It seems to me that splitting games into those that need warnings vs those that don't is much better for everyone. It means people with epilepsy can play (some) games. It means companies making games can decide if they want to change their games to pass the test or issue a warning.

As long as it just indicates what needs a warning and what doesn't rather than banning games, I really don't see the problem. Particularly as that's exactly how TV and film approach it. IMO, the more games are regulated in the *same* way as TV and films, the less likely gamers are to be associated with negative stereotypes and games with "they're just for kids".

fluffyamoeba

yeah whenever the ds boots up it gives you the seizure warning right off the bat.

random though: could the kid just have been seizure prone already and just had an attack which coincidentally playing the game?

kadaj_sama

I'm pretty sure that every time I've read an instructions booklet, usually after I finish a game, it's been peppered with photo sensitive epilepsy warnings.

The fact that I could open a DVD and not be bombarded with these warnings as they're usually on the DVD or in really small print on the back of the box is a tad more...disturbing...probably too strong a word, but this kid could have been watching anything when the epilepsy kicked in and there would have been something similar said about that media. He could have been playing a flash(no pun intended) game and all hell could have broken loose.

Gambia

Or maybe the onus should be on the parents to watch their kids? Silly me, thinking somewhat logically.

BobHand

Maybe the ratings board folks should be looking for this sort of things rather than looking for nubity all the time.

Leathersoup

I just wanted to say that the comments here are far more sane and thoughtful than those posted at the actual article. Thanks Kotaku readers, I'm glad not everyone feels the need to form vehement opinions before actually knowing something about it.

liquidnumb

How do they test for seizures? Is there like a guy thats just a lab rat and has seizures all day?

AndroidKing

@jpneiswi: There are certain triggers that are known to induce this type of seizure. Rapidly flashing lights for instance. Games can be evaluated to see if they have such triggers present and if so, how intense they are. But even then, games aren't 100% safe. Different sufferers of PSE have different thresholds. There has to be some level that is going to be considered safe for a certain percentage of PSE sufferers. Those who are more sensitive are just going to be out of luck, but then, they probably didn't play a lot anyway.

I had a non-photo-induced seizure when I was in third grade. It happened before school one morning, my sister walked into my room and was going to get onto me for jumping on the bed and just started screaming. Grand Mal. Kicking, shaking, eyes rolled back. Of course, I didn't know a thing until about 6 o'clock that night. They said I kicked a paramedic in the nuts...

Eltigro

@AndroidKing:
There's software that tests for certain patterns that often induce PSE seizures.
Headlam already mentioned one.

Tadashi

well, if you're playing any game you should already know that there's a slight risk for this. Isn't it in all the warnings in the instruction book?
but, any misfortune that befalls those raving rabbids is ok by me.

dArk_stAr