@Aye Mak Sicur: Aw crap, I'm about 50 pages in to the Contact Harvest book. It sucks you say? I gotta finish it before the new one comes out though. Agreed though, that the first book was the best. What the hell keeps me reading them?

Also, 2nd book was so hard to finish.

Luis

I dream sometimes of games as detailed as Foundation and Enders Game. I wake up crying from the joy of it all, then I continue crying with sadness because it hasn't happened yet.

aspasticninja

@aspasticninja: Don't be dissing the Timothy Zahn Star Wars trilogy. Them there be fightin' words. :)

chuffhoncho

ReconToaster, you honestly explained the entire plot in the worst way possible. While Halo does have more depth in terms of detail to the universe, it certainly isn't full of life-changing revalations. In fact, playing the multiplayer online with other people is much more eye-opening.

Aye Mak Sicur

@ReconToaster: That's a plot twist ala War of the Worlds. Depth is the furthering of characters and their story, character development if you will. It's fine defending something you like, but you need to keep in mind that there are more books than games out there, and a lot of them are better than what a gaming back story has to offer.

Fallible

good ole halo...

A simple story in a very large universe.

Well, at least it's not as bad as MGS and it's line of shitty comic books... and games.

eunoia

@ReconToaster: Of course there was a reason for the war in Starship Troopers. Humans, being assholes, expanded into Bug territory. Not appreciating this, and unable to communicate with us due to the language barrier, they attacked us.

Much like the Buggers in Enders Game (which I forgot to add to my list on my last post.)

aspasticninja

I thought the Halo books (with the exception of "The Flood") where pretty good. I mean, we're not talking Starship Troopers or Foundation Saga here, but they weren't horrible; worse books have made money (i.e. every novel based off Star Trek or Star Wars).

aspasticninja

@KeroseneClimax:

when i say "depth" i'm not reffering to the deepness of the meaning that is embedded in the text.

when i say "depth" i mean to say that the halo universe has more depth. not philosophical depth, but rather more well constructed and explained factions. in starship troopers, the terrans are facing a force that has no reason for killing them. that is what lacks depth in the starship troopers universe.

the covenant are led by so called "prophets" who rule with a false religion. they are fighting the humans because they see them as blasphemers to their religion. when the covenant first glass harvest from orbit they say "your destruction is the will of the gods"

in the end it is realized that the humans are descendent of forerunners, the race that the covenant worshiped. it turnsout that all this time, the covenant have been fighting their own gods. that's depth.

ReconToaster

@Gitaroo_Dude: Heh, we know that. It was a joke :)

Spoony Bard

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

I totally did not mean to imply the Bernstein bears are bad. The children's books most certainly kick ass.

Meant to imply that Recon has probably read nothing but children's books if he thinks Halo actually operates on any intellectual level above that of Middle School.

Gitaroo_Dude

@KeroseneClimax:

He's talking about the world. And you have to give him that - its world - that is to say, the setting - much more documented than Starship Troopers.

Aliens I think would be arguable, what with the comics and pen and paper game and loads of comics.

But as I said above, quantity is not quality.

Koztah

@ReconToaster: Your defense of the Halo universe as a deep and thoughtful universe (compared to the endless worlds created by giants such as Heinlein, Asimov and Clarke) scares me.

Spoony Bard

@ReconToaster: What? More depth than Aliens and Starship Troopers? I like Halo as much as the next person, but Halo's narrative is extremely shallow despite having potential. You can't compare it to those classics. To say Halo has more depth then either shows you've completely missed the messages of both. Especially Starship Troopers. Do have any concept how influential that novel was to science-fiction? I dare say there wouldn't be Halo without it.

Films like Aliens, anime like Blue Gender, books such as John Steakley's Armor, and games like Halo; all had some degree of influence from that novel. Man, I'm not going to dig into your opinion's, but please show some respect before asking for it.

KeroseneClimax

@ReconToaster:

That's entirely possible, Starship Troopers was just over 200 pages.

However, it should be noted that volume of documentation in no way entails quality. I'd rather read Catcher in The Rye six times in a row than read a single Robert Jordan novel, for instance.

Koztah

@Koztah:

i'm saying that the universe described in the halo novels has more depth than that of starship troopers.

ReconToaster

@Kanik: All Internet arguments can be traced back to the Berenstein Bears. True story.

Spoony Bard

@Aye Mak Sicur:

i did, and for the political statements he made within his writing, he should be complimented. none the less, the book lacks fictional depth.

@brokenscope:

obviously. i have read Starship troopers.

ReconToaster

@ReconToaster:

Wait, you're saying a Halo novel series by a no-name author is deeper than a classic novel by Robert A. Heinlein, which won a Hugo no less?

Koztah

@Gitaroo_Dude: Hey! Back off the Bernstein Bears. This ain't their fight.

Kanik

@ReconToaster: You didn't notice any of the political commentary when you read it, did you?

Aye Mak Sicur

@ReconToaster:

Have you ever even read a novel by Heinlein?

brokenscope

@Gitaroo_Dude:

i have read the novel. Rico's story is great and all, but the arachnids (mindless bugs killing for the hell of it) aren't exactly the creation of a genius.

I am not claiming that these books are the greatest ever written, that spot is held by the works of michael crichton. i am however stating that they are not bad books, and that they do have good story lines that explore the conflict between the human and covenant greater than many other book of sci-fi nature.

ReconToaster

@Gitaroo_Dude: Right, because YOUR OPINION means more than those of others.

TOWER_JUNKIE

@Gitaroo_Dude: hey man the Bernstein bears were badass

excel_excel

@Lazlo:

there was a character named tobias on arrested development who was trying to be a blue man.

ReconToaster

@ReconToaster:

Trust me, having read your posts in this thread, I can already tell that your opinion on any form of media is worthless.

OMG THE COVENENANT HAVE A MOTIVE. Obviously Halo is the stuff of legends then.

Are you even familiar with Starship Troppers, the novel I mean?

Or does your experience with books only go as far as the Bernstein bears?

Gitaroo_Dude

Tobias S. Buckell?? I thought he was a member of the Blue Man Group. I know I've seen him in some Lifetime Original movie, at least.

Lazlo

@Aye Mak Sicur:

i suppose i agree with you about the crystal, but all around i think it was a pretty good book. especially the part about the "uneven elephant"

ReconToaster

@Gitaroo_Dude:

you're right. you don't need to read it. but until you do, your criticism will not be taken seriously.

ReconToaster

@ReconToaster:

I don't need to be hit by a car to know it hurts.

In the same vein, I don't need to read a trash novel from a mediocre series to know that the books are bad.

Gitaroo_Dude

@ReconToaster: They are joking about the Cole Train.

@Fallible: Just about every novel based on a videogame is a shallow piece of fluff. Some of the Halo ones hid it pretty well, and at least they fleshed out the story wel (Until the third book, with the interdimensional crystal that warped space/time, and how all those characters who died in the first one didn't really die, they were just unconscious for a few months while Halo 1 happened).

Aye Mak Sicur

@Jeff Paine:

it has a hell of alot more depth then something like aliens or starship troopers, both of which are stories that halo is often compared too. people see a man in a green suit of space armor and immediately think "oh look, another generic save the earth story." without even giving it a chance.

halo contains much more than humans fighting a thoughtless or "pure evil" enemy. the covenant have their own motives and beliefs. even the covenant has members that disagree with what's going on.

the fact that the aliens aren't portrayed as being "pure evil" puts enough into the story to make it better than starwars.

you guys need to see past the space marines and give it a chance.

ReconToaster

@Aye Mak Sicur: good lord

excel_excel

@Fallible: By the way, as a rule of thumb I tend to generalize that all game-to-novel, or for that matter, game-to-movie adaptations are lacking in depth. It's nothing personal.

Fallible

@Aye Mak Sicur: Agreed about Contact Harvest. "Halo" and "sex scenes" should not be in the same sentence unless that sentence is "Halo should not have sex scenes."

TOWER_JUNKIE

@ReconToaster:
Kotaku is a blog site and not really a CNN style gaming news. So sometimes articles are on older topics.

DigitalHero

First Strike was pretty horrible, honestly. It was disjointed and raised alot of questions that the whole story would've been better off without. Also, keeping the other Spartans alive was a real cop-out. In fact, that's half the premise of Halo, that there's only one Spartan.

Aye Mak Sicur

you guys, the novels have always mentioned cole protocol and they have been out long before gears of war.

and gitaroo_dude, how about you read them before you make a decision of whether or not you like them.

ReconToaster

@ReconToaster: "Great depth and intellectuality?" Oh man, you almost got me there!

Jeff Paine

@ReconToaster: - "a bit late on this one kotaku."

They just announced it yesterday, so get off your fucking high horse.

dead_red_eyes

i hope you mean anything after the third. fall of reach and first strike were great, And although it did screw up the storyline, contact harvest was by far the most well-written. the sex scene was a bit too g rated but at least he tried.

ReconToaster

Ugh...

These are probably worse than the Warcraft novels.

But not quite as bad as the stuff by Richard Knaack the hack.

Gitaroo_Dude

@Spoony Bard: hmm!!! As long as its all about the Coal Train, god dammit I love that man!

excel_excel

It's written by Tobias Bruckner, the dinosaur-riding frontiersman?

Cool.

mind in rewind

So, the characters and story really will be paper-thin...

Well I laughed.

Fallible

I'm happy to hear about another book, but as a fan of the novel series I would much rather get Nylund's next Halo novel. It's kind of annoying to leave the story hanging after Ghosts of Onyx while they keep putting out other tangential stories.

wildknight

@excel_excel: I smell MASHUP. Turns out that Sera is being mysteriously overrun by a new threat from the great beyond...called the Flood...

Delta Squad = Grey Team?

Hmm.

Spoony Bard

I'm a huge fan of the Halo series and story, but I have to say that anything after the second book is awful. Not to mention the 5th book "Contact harvest", featuring a sex scene spanning TEN PAGES starring none other than Sergeant Avery J. Johnson. Yeah, that guy you always killed in Halo 1.

Aye Mak Sicur

the cole protocol is the protocol that inhibits certain actions that could risk having human info fall into covenant hands. basically things like no ship carrying covenant artifacts or technology could go within certain sections of UNSC space without being searched and scanned.

ReconToaster

Cole Protocol....Coal...COAL TRAIN...
@Dyson: me too brother!!

excel_excel

a bit late on this one kotaku.

Please don't brush this off as just another action novel. the halo universe is one of great depth and intellectuality. please don't generalize it as just another space marine story.

ReconToaster

The Grey team?

Sigh...why must they always be so drab?

I want the misadventures of the Periwinkle/Chartreuse Teams. Why can't we read about THOSE? I'm sure they'd be MUCH more colorful tales.

Spoony Bard

I can't be the only one that thought of Cole Train whilst reading this article.

Dyson

@mind in rewind: Mind, I grew UP with them...how could I do them that injustice?!?

Spoony Bard

I read contact Harvest because some ass said it was good,WHAT.AN.ASS.That book is indescribably boring and not only that,it has the single most pointless and chill inducing(in a bad way)ending i've quite literally read.

xIvSlowDeath420

@Spoony Bard: Thank you for being the first person to correctly spell the Berenstein Bears.

mind in rewind

@Luis: Sorry to spoil the dirty Sarge sex! In truth, I never read past the third one. I just assumed, since they've gotten progessively worse through the series. Contact Harvest might have some redeeming qualities, since it was written by Joseph Staten, but I think they've made it too complex by trying to tie in the Brutes etc. that early on.

Aye Mak Sicur

loved all the other books and looking foward to this one!

sargemat

I just noticed yesterday that all the Halo novels are available as audio books on audbile now.

A decent way to pass the time driving to work.

WatchAndWarrant

@Fallible:

i know that halo is not the best story ever written nor are the books the greatest. i do not limit myself to books based on games. they are a new genera that i have just recently expanded into. before that i most enjoyed the works of dan brown and especially (the greatest author of al time) michael crichton.

@Aye Mak Sicur:

i'm sorry, it's tough to summarize 5 books and 3 games into one paragrah.

i'd like to see you try.

ReconToaster

Why is everybody jumping down ReconToaster's throat? The man is just trying to say that the Halo novels aren't throw-aways simply because they are based off a video game.

Fallible's way of responding is a good way to argue a point, Gitaroo_Dude's is not. Taking quick jabs at someone else's intelligence only serves to discredit your own.

pchea

My Masters in literature would prevent me from enjoying a Halo book... so call me a snob, go ahead.

Although, I loved Mass Effect so much that I bought the novel prequel last month... haven't dared opening it yet though. Gotta swallow that pride.

SicariusIV

@freakout: For what it's worth, I don't like her much either. She was just one of the first names to leap to mind.

Coxswain

@Coxswain: Well, I don't know about Adams, but he's certainly a cut above Jane Austen. Emma scarred me for life in high school. Honestly, I remember a whole fucking chapter where they did nothing but talk about which room to have a party in. I wanted to kill myself.

All the black coffee in the world couldn't keep me awake through that book. I burnt it in celebration when I completed my final English exams. Die, Jane Austen, die.

freakout

The next Halo novel will be "Who gives a fuck?". Halo's over and done with, lets move on.

Indy_aka_Rex

@freakout: Good point about Enders Game vs First Strike, I hadn't really thought about that. I was just saying that Enders Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind were awesome books.

@Chiper: I agree, the books are good if you read them all, and they expand greatly on the mediocre story told in the games, but they'd be better if they stuck with the same author (Nylund). I'll probably end up buying Cole Protocol anyway, just like the others. There's just too little really GOOD sci-fi around anymore. If only Asimov wasn't dead.

aspasticninja

Also for what it's worth, Tobias S. Buckell is a pretty damn good writer. Quality will not be an issue here (aside from the admittedly questionable quality of the underlying source material), unless he completely gives up when trying to write this book - Crystal Rain was awesome and I've heard nothing but good about Ragamuffin.

Coxswain

I like how people were/are jumping all over Recon Toaster for saying the halo books have depth, but no one's really paying attention to the real crime here: his claim that Michael Crichton is the best author of all time.

I mean, really? He's a better author than Albert Camus, Jane Austen, Kurt Vonnegut, Douglas Adams, or any of another hundred or so authors in the canon of western literature? Shit, someone better tell all those people wasting their time to get to paying attention to what matters.

I'm not saying he's bad, mind you, just that declaring the greatest is kind of like saying Cheetos are the best corn-based food in the world. Certainly they're tasty, but the best? Not even remotely.

Coxswain

To be technically accurate, the Halo novel's are not based on a video game. They're based off the Halo story bible that Joe Staten wrote long before the game was started. He fleshed out all the characters, all the backstory, all the plot far in advance. Nylund and Dietz used the halo bible when writing all four books.

Someone complained about the later books creating more questions than they did answers. That's the whole point! Halo is built around the same titillation method used on tv shows like Lost and Heroes. They cause all this rampant speculation amongst the fans, and then Joe throws out a big season finale with Contact Harvest, answering tons of questions in one fell swoop, but still leaving a lot left unanswered so they can keep writing books.

Bungie deliberately left out a lot of story detail when they made Halo 1. They figured that most gamers wouldn't care about the specifics of the series (and they were right). This is why they never mention the other spartans, or anything else having to do with the master chief's past.

This was a good idea, but unfortunately it has led people to think that there is no real story there. The first two books were written to fill that gap. If you found yourself wondering what the hell Guilty Spark was muttering about in the library, you would probably like these books. The problem is that the books do not survive on their own. Nylund did not write the later books to be standalone, you can't pick up book three and get involved in the characters, you have to start from the beginning.

Joe wrote Contact Harvest for the fans of the series. There's a reason he waited until a month after Halo 3 had shipped to release the book. It's meant to be Halo's Revelations, the point in the series where everything comes together. If you've read all the other books and are into the story, Contact Harvest is amazing. If you're picking it up standalone, you'll hate it.

As a fan of the books, I don't like what I see in this announcement. The covenant war is over, there's already an alliance between the humans and the elites. I don't see what this book as to tell. Gray team makes me think of the spartan IIIs on Onyx, but if that's the case I'd rather it were Nylund finishing the tale.

There is still lots of story to be told (Spartan IIIs on Onyx, the retaking of the elite's planet, and whatever planet that was at the end of Halo 3), but this book doesn't sound like it covers any of that.

Chiper

@ReconToaster: While I wouldn't agree Michael Crichton is the best writer ever - cough, Lost World, cough - I'll give you that the Halo novels have a lot more depth to them than they are given credit for. Comparisons to Ender's Game (for First Strike) are not unwarranted. There are so many themes to pick up on: the whole child-soldiers thing, the ethics of genetic manipulation in the face of extinction, a Stockholm's-syndrome type relationship between Dr. Halsey and the Spartans who love her despite enduring at-times hideously painful, dangerous experimentation...

I disagree that Contact Harvest was the best in the series though. Actually I think it was the worst. Staten's style didn't grab me in the same way as Nylund's, who had me by the balls right from the start.

@aspasticninja: Interesting you should mention Ender's Game. There's quite a few similarities in First Strike.

freakout

come to think of it, they should make a game out of the Foundation Saga. If they did it right, it would be ill.

I fucking love Issac Asimov.

aspasticninja

Oh yeah, and sorry to double post,
but
Grey Team is mentioned as on a mission too far away to be recalled from in one of the books aren't they?

InsolenceAndHeresy

@InsolenceAndHeresy: Has anyone read the Republic Commando books?

Yup. Quite enjoyed them - Traviss infuses the books with a level of grit and realism rarely seen in the SW novels. As you probably already know, though, they don't focus on established characters, so it really all depends on how much you come to like her creations.

Give Hard Contact a go, and if you like it, pick up the rest.

freakout

The Mass Effect novel's pretty decent, especially if you've played the game and you can visualize the universe in your head.

The Splinter Cell novels, until the third one, were complete balls I think. They were from a first person perspective and that was completely unnecessary. I haven't read Fallout yet though.

The Halo novels were all pretty decent, except for The Flood, which I think was kind of lacking in terms of style but did introduce depth to some of the elements seen in the game.

First Strike I have a grudge against because it's so damn big.

Has anyone read the Republic Commando books?

InsolenceAndHeresy

@Coxswain:

fine then, Michael Crichton is at least an author of man-god status.

Lost world did suck, but it was his first go at writing a sequel. it pretty much stole all of the elements of jurassic park (like 2 kids) and ran with it. the movie was absolutely terrible, but that's not his fault.

still, you cannot deny the utmost majesty of "Jurassic Park," "Congo," "Prey," "Timeline," and the creepiness of "Sphere."

"Hi, my name is jerry, what's your? i am happy, how are you?" oooooh makes me shiver!

ReconToaster

@InsolenceAndHeresy: Yea, I think so.

aspasticninja

I can and will deny Timeline. That was a seriously boring book. About the only cool part was that one knight covered in moss. I'll give you Jurassic Park, maybe even Prey - and I'll even throw on the Andromeda Strain, it was pretty good. Haven't read his other books, but after Timeline I really didn't want to.

Coxswain

Sphere and Prey were amazing. Congo was kinda weird, but still a good read.

Damn, this is my sixth or seventh post on this article...I really didn't have much going on today, did I?

aspasticninja

I'm also waiting for the next Eric Nylund Halo novel. His are actually really good. And he kinda left it on a cliffhanger with Ghosts of Onyx...

Samos42

@mind in rewind: I want to marry this comment and have it's children.

Erwin

@Erwin: As long as I get to have the sordid affair with this comment after a few years into your rocky marriage.

Spoony Bard

@ReconToaster: Are you fucking kidding me? Starship Troopers is a fucking insanely great novel. I love the Nylund books, but damn.

Tenno

@ReconToaster: Shit like this makes me think you're a very advanced troll actually. Crichton? Man-god status? Holy shit.

Read some Gene Wolfe.

Tenno

@Erwin: @Spoony Bard: Settle down, guys. You'll both get your chance. Besides, I hear the comment's a slut.

mind in rewind

hey new to this. Does any1 have any speculation on the planet at the end of the halo game?

bigbang503

@bigbang503: My guess is that it's a shield world like Onyx, assuming it isn't Onyx itself. It may also be the origin world of the Flood, or something else entirely different.

I was a little lost at the end of Halo 3 as to just where Cortana and John were. If the warp bubble closed with the ship only half in it, then they should have been left back at the Arc, which would place them beyond the solar system and a million light years away from the nearest planet. The only thing I could come up with is that they got tossed out somewhere in between earth and the arc.

Chiper

I need to read the fifth book. Geebus. I'm slacking.

Lainface